And he is one of many renegotiations and not even the last one. The fight has been brutal and very bitter. Asa matthews is a colonel who sees these indian leaders and doksville, oklahoma is gone. Today its a state historic site, an archaeological site. There a couple of markers. Thats june and july that this is happening. There isolated incidents across the south and i will point out a few. One of the most famous units is the orphan brigade and kentucky troops. They are put off and they will march into augusta, georgia in may and spender to union troops in tennessee. And all across the south, you will have small isolated commands learning about the larger events and finding their way to the nearest union forces to surrender. Near weldon, an isolated artillery unit wandered around for a couple of weeks in late april and early may. One soldier wrote they were avoiding the soldier of an october pus. Finally they realized they had nowhere to go and nothing else to do and they will make their way to surrender. As the kummer unfolds and they will occupy the south and all the fighting dies down whatku soldiers, former military leaders, civilians, slaves, and union Occupying Forces all facing very uncertain futures. So many unanswered questions, so much lingering tension and bitterness. And that is a session for another time but think about the chaotic state of things and as things end. What happens at appomattox sets the tone for other surrenders but a lot of the details unfold the other but look at all the twists and turns. Every other surrender had to have two negotiation some in lly fa two places. Lots of scenarios played out. Really fascinating, but it indicates this movement from wartime to peace is going to be challenging. Thank you very much. Do we have time for questions . One or two quiet if you havent done here the last ur nam couple oe f days, come down to the microphone in the aisle, state your name and your question. You cut me off. My name is Darrell Lange and along the rio grand the unoffic surrender was unofficial a gentlemens agreement between kirby the north general and i think smith. Im getting down to the battle. On the night of the 12th and o 13th of may Union Colonel or nel general branson was up against southern colonel i cant ic remember his name. Anyway, the latter gentlemen had que six cannons. That brings to bear my question that was a french goern region and forces involved in the battle. Derales thats what the French Foreign ed. Legion had under the federales that were in mexico that were involved. The french is intervening while re inv the french were sdrablthed with confe the civil war. Gettin i dont think any troops were involved in the battle. I think that the confederates were getting supplies across the border immediately before but i am not an expert on how it is. That may have been to smith. I didnt know if it was going. Thank you very much. Genera thank you. Ron wilson. As part of general grants provisions in his tirms that general lee accepted, was it a duplicate role that all the soldiers be kept. 15 of the roles were later printed in volume 15 of the Southern Historical society parchs. Dunkerly were there any roles kept in greensboro or other surrenders. It did disburse and everyone is held together there and couldnt th physically get a wi. Ey i dont think so. The army of the potomac and shermans army they go through union the grand review and demobilevation is pretty organized. The union forces and the balance, is that as chaotic . You get the gist of my question. How organized are the demobilization of the various armies spread throughout the regions you described. Compared to say the two, the starts grand review and the subsequent demobilization that starts almost immediately. I havent researched that, but what i do know is that they o occu had a process where there were forces left to occupy the know majority of the troops thatht willm be moving back to their home he states. I dont know the details, about but they had a system and it worked efficiently. Rge perc i think by the end of the summer or the fall a large percentage was on the way home. I dont know the details of it. Concerning the rest of they zley army in Northern Virginia, fits lee moved out from the area and mattox up in lynch berg and john months bee with a small command who wascalvar formerly involved. Ot with can you speak to the confederate cavalry and troops that were not with lee and how they managed to surrender . Sure. I even got a photo that you can refer to. Most of the cavalry in the campaign marched and got away from lynch berg. One of the local Cavalry Units came in on the fairgrounds and they arrived back four years later to disband in the same spot. Almost four years to the day. Once they learn about what happens, they disband. Henandoa there is another isolated unit in the Shenandoah Valley and southWest Virginia that they ust di will gsbo to the nearest commanders and surrender or theymattox t will disband and go home. Some go back to get parole passes because they want that piece of paper. A lot of different things. Thats the particular route they take. Why did the majority side with the confederacy . The majority of the indians. Look at their history, they have been removed and trailed tears and the United States government and the military is their y can traditionalga enemy. Ings d hoping they can gain more independence. Its natural. Things turn around at the end ofho the war. Its because of the treatment of a the United States government andnce back the homeland and we settled in oklahoma. They had a chance to end it. Thank you. For those who have more questions for bert he is in the lobby signing his book so you can ask your questions there. You have been watching American History tv. More from the seminar on the closing of the civil war in 1865. Coming up the battles of Sailors Creek and the battle of appomatlox. Later today, the ceremonies marking the 150th anniversary. In april of 1865 confederate general robert e lee met Ulysses S Grant andsz endered his army of Northern Virginia ending introduce our next speaker. Dr. Coles our second speaker is casey clabough. Casey is a professor at Lynchburg College and editor of the james dickey review and is english graduate director. A richmond native who grew up and appomattox county, he has editor of the multivolume best creative nonfiction of the south, texas review press and a variety of other things. One of the editors of the encyclopedia of virginia, which is online. Hes had a number of fellowships and received a number of awards. He has published over 100 works in anthologies and periodicals such as the sewanee review, the virginia quarterly review and so on. Author of confederados a novel of the americas. The confederates that left the u. S. At the end of the war and went to brazil. I remember from 30 or 40 years ago reading an article about that. Bill maybe wrote that and i have never heard of it and i got interested. Im looking for to hearing his top. His talk. His talk today is entitled confederados. Casey clabough. [applause] professor clabough thank you dr. Coles. Thank you all for being here and for inviting me. To extend the last speakers eloquent comment about the end of the war being a time of uncertainty, id like to. In a time of uncertainty i would like to begin with that since thats essentially the reason for the strange story of these people who came to be called at least in brazil confed raddos. Former family and civilians and soldiers and administrators. We somehow ended up inuoo brazil. f its such a dark slate in terms of history there is only one book in existence that came out in the 90s. 1ifp r t hahp hc the university ofjng alabama. I would encourage students and watching scholars, watching those interested in pan American History as well as civil war. Qfzy there is a lot of work that needs to be done. I am a little out of my element among historians who write historical fiction. Did a lot of Historical Research for my book and my fictional title. wg how does someone come to have an interest in the confed raddos . The answer is marriage. I married a localruy Buckingham County who had m t ann set offer who fought in the civil,8ej and months rangers and who afterward for various reasons was compelled, he was a bachelor, young guy was compelled to leave the country. And going back to berts comment, reconstruction4bw these various surrenders its a time of uncertaintyaca lot of southerners are very concerned. How are we going to be treated . Will it be marshall law . Are we going to be hungo6k as one of the generals seemed to hopedii that his solders would be . Whats going to happen . And how long is marshallt÷r law going to last . Are we ever going to have any measure of freedom again . So you have to kind of put ucg yourself in thatz mindset to understand why there were these people who were desperate enough to leave the south, which they fought for desperately in many cases for several phdyears. So inq . 9ky my wifessqn an ses ters case, he got into some local trouble and through a mutual acquaintance discovered that there were virginians who were f, traveling to brazil and, in fact, this was not a virginia phenomenon. It was something that was happening throughout the i and the reason for it was that, at least in the case of brazil, it had been advertised inbj. n newspapers ande0c] places like new all over by brazilian officials. And the idea was that brazil being an enormous country still an enormous country, as you know needed further development of its interiorf3ix and its government officials thought that, you know, whatj immigrants to have than these confederates who have advanced agricultural knowledge compared to a lot of other perspectivey]60 immigrants. Obviouslyq . Zzare not happy with how things are going at home. So they specially were given land grants to come to brazil. So thatstb the reasoning behind it. And just to bring home berts point, i would like tot ox a read something briefly called its from the virginia magazine ofx history andaw called ,q alternative to apmaticsa pn is the title. Alternative to apmatics. Some weeks afternhdn roberta lee surrendered april 18 a disgruntled leader of the faction in the movement for southe7 . U independence put a rifle in his mouth and pullede7mbn the trigger. Because he chose not to live in the world the war w if many confederates shared that patriots grim revulsion for the consequences of military defeat, few imlated his meth of escape. Most came to terms as best they could with the new political, economic gr and social order ushered in by the war. Andef and to establish a southern presence in many different parts of the world. Although many of these exiles wp remanded romantic rebels, haunted strangers in strange lands, many otherswyantalented,fh dedicated, determined made substantial contributions to their adopted countries and coincidentally deprived their homeland of one of its most precious nr resources. Still others dreamed dreams and devised schemesk hated yolk of yankee domination. By the way, that line about depriving the south of resources just one othernkym fact about peopleiqon leaving or not leaving general robert e. Lee when asked about immigration, he was5amun against z pa and this was symbolized as well when he took over the or assumed the president ship at Washington College which later became washington and lee university, he thought that it was very important for particularly young o help rebuild the country. So he was against this kind of thing. But for others, for various reasons, the uncertainty of the post war south it was something that seemed not only preferable but in some cases necessary. Now i would like to read just a basic definition of what a con fedrado is what this constitute constituted. Its a confusing term. On the one8v9 you have former southerner confederate. You have brazilian colonist. What really is thee jn crux of a confederados. Whats their story inohucgeneral. And so this is a working definition that i use based on primary sources when i was doing research for m6 n my1db book. L82 the confederados immigrantjkg1 focuses on essentially a person who left north america between. B 1865 and 1870 and settled in such areas at narrow. The history proved only the settlements in Santa Barbara and americanaere[y successle. It is estimated that more than 50 of those who travelled to brazil eventually returned to the United States due to various unanticipated hardships. However, those wh][ remain tended to congregate arouf5fbu 9 the william kornl norris. First settled in 1865 the americans in this area have retained their sense of confederate and american identity. Thats even true today. And in a country of immigrant groups such as brazil those people not only remember their confederate an zesters but embrace their heritage as way of distinguishing themselves from other brazilian groups. So, thats one thing to keep in mind as well. This is not an m0 issuehd en thatst0 limited to the conclusion of the civil war and you know,k4oq the dt ensuing two or three decades following it. Its anfq cn onist going narrative. In fact every8rx. Year in santaq barbara theres a celebration in which confederados comeu il]xc and celebrate their heritage. They played dixie but they sang it in portuguese. If you look at the 1 who are participating, a large portion of them are people of wmlor. So, in other words but theyre wearing uniforms and the la4 attire. And so its a very and theres the confederate battle flag all over the place. So its a very surreal kind of thing to witness in another country. These people celebrating their Confederate Heritage yet at the same time, having been wholly integrated into brazilian society,x]7nethnically, linguistically, economically but its still important to them that they have this story in their past. And just as an aside, a former first lady president and georgia governorv confederados heritage and there was quite a bit of media glitz when they traveled to this festival, i believe in the late 1970s. Her family though was among one of the families that returned. They did not stay. But it did result in some dialogue and some Exchange Programs betweenbo young confederados brazilian confederados coming to spend time in the south and georgia and american contemporary georgiaens journeys to Santa Barbara to¥1 time among these confederados. So i think thats very interesting as well. So what was it like to be a confederados . The quote that i read mentioned the hardship and various other factors that came with the experience. Its true that slavery still existed in brazil. Brazil was the last country abolish slavery in the 1880s. Howeve tib for any southerner hoping to acquire slaves they would find that for one thing they couldnt afford them. They were much more expensive in brazil. Also slavery as an Economic Institution and social institution was on the way out any way in brazil. Although, as opposed to the United States, it wasi . nd abolished eventually through peaceful means. That is within brazil. There were actually military elements that contributed to its abolishment, most notably the war of the triple alliance which involved para guy, brazil and argentina. If a slave were to enlist in the Brazilian Army for that war, he was automatically guaranteed his freedom once he had served his time as a soldier. So those factors were leading to the abolishment of slavery in brazil and of course disenfranchised southerners had not the means to acquire slaves to assist them with labor, to assist them with developing these land grants that they had received from the brazilian government. So what did they do . They had to work really hard, really hard. I would compare it in American History to some of the grizzly details of the jamestown settlement in its infancy. There wasnt cannibalism, as there was at jamestown, but, you know, there were people who were literally starving at times as they tried to develop crops, as they tried to you know, the bull tongue plow, for example, didnt exist in brazil, so they were trying to make their own, trying to clear fields for crops and so forth and a lot of time their land grants were in very remote places. So even if you successfully grew something, it was very difficult to get it to a place where it could be taken by rail to Rio De Janeiro to be in a the roads were really bad. Theyre still really bad in brazil in rural brazil. So im going to read the next thing im going to do is read a brief description from a typical confederados. This is a person who visited awd]n confederados. He was a Civil War Veteran from tennessee and these were the living circumstances of this veteran in brazil who is trying to make a go of at it a a farm mer ch the farm eers home is sichsed a fu mills distance in the large clearing at the forrest at the base of a plateau that is some hundred feet above the river. All around there were splendid masses of green trees and lime trees and great pale banana plants and bo those a bit of untouched forrest with a giant brazilian nut tree towering over it. The farmer says with all the beauty of the site it evidently has a hard time of it. I still have a hard time of it. Im a little discouraged. The land is excellent but the stream is too small to give me good waterpower. And without that, i cant imagine a large cane plantation. The man went;t how prices he receives for his produce are not very good. The traders take advantage of his helplessness. He cant speak portuguese only speak english. It would be like an immigrant in this country cant speak english. Its a huge disadvantage. All the americans are cultivating all the americans who are cultivating sugar cane the juice is distilled into rum which is sold. Probably coffee or cocoa might pay better but our colonists came here without money. Theres the disenfranchisement again. And they could not wait for slowgreing crops. The farmer tells me how he and his family were housed with the others and a great thatched building, how the÷iscolonists were supportive for a while on government rations until they could locate their plantations and get their first crops. How they had to struggle with utter poverty work without tools, live as n best they could until their fields were established. He hadz0 was a small clearing with a dozen trees. The family lived in a shed until they could delay thatched house. the farmer had to bring provisions from santarem on his back. It was a long time before he could cut a road and longer before he had horses. He had to grind cane with a wooden mill until he could procure an iron one from the u. S. He had to get things on credit and pay a premium. Horses were obtained at a sacrifice. He had been his own carpenter, everythi at great sacrifice. He has been his own carpenter, mason, machinist everything. It was a long time before he indian could even hire a single indian is elf to work for him. And now after seven years of hard struggle he finds himself with what . A plantation that he could not s sell for one fourth of its real are no value b simply because there are no buyers. A burden of debt that it will take him a long time to pay and hi himself with a broken down body and a discouraged heart. So, there you go. Maybe things arent so bad in the United States after all. They w and of course they were getting letters. Its not like they were living in a vacuum in these remote places. They were getting letters from home informing the confederados of how things were proceeding. And that reconstruction despite its rough spots and problems wasnt as bad as they had imagined. Remember from the previous talk that sense of uncertainty and fear. So this was the situation and, you know for some families, you know they could live that colonial lifestyle and it was t was preferable to returning to the south. It was just too painful for them to return, but 50 chose to return because of situations ust to like scenarios like the one irazil. Just shared with you. It was just too difficult to make a living in brazil. Bout so with that and i asked patrick about this he thought it was okay. And considering that the topic is so unexamined and that many of you may have varying questions about it i checked return with patrick about opening the floor a little earlier and then maybe returning to some more reading later. To the so, please, if you have any questions, please come up to the mic at this time. Thanks casey, for h ques enlightening us. I see people wandering right up to those microphones with some of those questions, but im going to preempt them and ask ife the first question. Did you and your wife make a pilgrimage to brazil while researching your book . Second question for that is there a count of the number of confederados in brazil today . The answer to the first question is yes. I was fortunate to get a Research Travel grant from the brazilian government to spend a couple of weeks down there. And so i wasnt able to go to Santa Barbara and see the festival firsthand. Theres video footage of it mo which ive seen before but i was more interesting in tracing de ja the ancestors footsteps. They had come into port at rio n. De janeiro. The government housed them for a while as it had this tennessee gentleman. And then in the ancestors case ve he had gone to the state that essentially is would be comparative to v the West Virginia of brazil. S so very rugged very poor, very run down. Its called es perree toe sen toe and its major city is lunharis. Thats where his land was located. Yeah. I spent a lotes of time. It definitely wasnt a glamour trip to brazil. I spent a lot of time riding e writ around on back roads. I did get some really good fascinating pictures of anacondas. That ended up one of them ended up on the back of the book. They were just kind of sunning regar themselves and seemed rather harmless. With regard to the other question historians still disagree about how many ho confederados and their families or how many southerners and their families actually went to brazil and other countries. And it kind of goes back to ron wilsons question to the last speaker about paroles or the lack thereof. To some extent to the lusion conclusions of many modern wars, its just that the records are being are[cople huge movements of people going every which way. Given that chaotic element it is hard to put a number on how many southerners actually migrated. Today it is estimated, brazil has a Large Population similar to that of the u. S. So it is less than 1 , perhaps. 5 of the entire population, a small minority. Is this microphone on . My name is james, i am from is this microphone on now . Very interesting talk. My name is james omen and im from williamsburg. Diwnd anyer of the former slavesn a come with theirbw formerkx n owners to brazil . Thats the first part. And i understand that becausehat br i got interested in this subject years ago. I understandm that brazil has nothing anywhere like the problem of racial relations that the United States has. Can you comment on those two questions . Thank you. Sure. T the answer to the first questions, forme is g aicyes, in some cases former compan slaves didy accompany southern families toyonx÷ brazil. However, that immediately became a thorny issue given that you know, they had technically in rnment terms of as far as the u. S. Government was t concerned been freed np north america and then arriving in brazil there was no u real means to reenslave them that the government was willing to get involved with. So, yes in some cases africanamericans did travel l with their the families that aves. Formerly had owned them to brazil, but they were they werent slaves. Ventua they essentially just worked with the family or]n eventually went their ownan ways. As opposed to the second question, brazil most definitely had and to this day is much more open and accommodating in do wit terms of its various ethnicities. And that hasyo to do with the development of the country itself. Indig mean you had portuguese. You had a very strong indigenous presence. And then the people that to colonists that had initially developed brazil were from all yo overu europe even into north africa. So, you know you had italians germans, even turkish immigrants and then you throw in thegw Indigenous Peoples of brazil and africanamericans brought in for slave labor and youve got you pool that is more 2÷n diverse than the United Statesfb9 and more used ere al toso working en q 9nd still i might add they were also bonded and still are to an extent very much by common a very religion, the Catholic Church had a very strong presence there as well. But a hi, im george dych. I dont have a question but a quick story which i thinkn98 you might find interesting. Friend of mine who is representative in brazil, we ing vacationed last summer together and she told us a story about sitting next to a Supreme Court justice justice, may have been the chief wom justice of the Supreme Court in a blondehaired blueeyed woman who was perfectly portuguese in her language but reminded me of reminded my friend of having a southern type of hospitality and airs about her. As they got talking, turns out this woman was a con federado descendant. A woman who has ascended to the top of the judicial food chain in brazil but yet retains very much of her southern culture. I thought that was pretty fascinating. Yeah. Its interesting. I would say that brazil is very different from other south american countries in a number of respects. Obviously its very its a strong economic power. Its a very large country now. But, you know, you go there and ive been in other places in central america, south america where, you know, its kind of strange to see someone with blond hair and blue eyes. Its really not that strange in brazil and i would say argentina as well just because theres a long tradition of Northern European immigration to that to those areas, to those countries. Thank you for that story. Yes. Im william thompson, former chaplain at Hampton Sidney college and now residents. Ive heard you before on this casey, at various local venues and i want to make a comment about a local confederado theme here. Im a retired southern presbyterian minister. In 1867 the southern presbyterian denomination established a its Foreign Mission field in brazil. Now, this was not as it turned out to be an evangelical approach to the native population or to protestants wishing to change from the roman wishing to proselytize from the roman Catholic Church there, but the reality is that and i can speak to this because presbyterian seminary was located at Hampton Sidney, there were several of our initial southern presbyterian evangelical missionaries who went to brazil in the late 1860s not to convert but essentially to be a chaplain presence to our kind of people who had immigrated as confederados. There was a strong appeal by a theology professor to get some who had been on stonewall jacksons staff, to get people from this area to go to brazil as as confederados. He made an especially strong appeal to mrs. Thornton who lived over here on beach street because her husband was killed at sharpsburg, loevited their home here but she had four young boys and he said they have their chance of full development to get out of here and go to brazil. Her local minister, the pastor of the Presbyterian Church told him to leave his parishioners alone that he would their spiritual advisers