and then i covered the last couple years of the lockdowns the clampdowns the unscientific science the hypocrisies and so forth and i just felt it was time to write a book letting readers know not just some of the underreported or unreported behind scenes discussions that justified the lockdowns, but also more importantly what's ahead how the democrats in particular how the left is going to continue to use fear from the coronavirus to justify even more clampdowns on liberties. you open the book with a personal count from from your life and reach a little bit and then you can expand on it you wrote this science is not sacrosanct doctors are not gods but believing so as place america's freedoms and chains. this is our national misstep. this is our nation's big mistake with the pandemic first fear replace the ability to think in reasoning reason then overreaching government exploited the situations to instill more fear and grab more powers and democrats progressives globalists collectivists socialist and marxist saw the opportunity to reshape the entire world if they can only fear keep the fear going press for even more powers move goal post father down the field, but you talk about a personal experience of you ours talk about that and then talk about the why you won't what you did. oh, well, thank you. thank you for that. so i opened the book by going back in time to 2008 when my husband had a heart attack and i raced to the hospital and every doctor there told me that he was going to die. in fact they were very casual about it. they were very certain he's going to die and as the days wore on and he was in a coma then they told me that in order to save his life. they would have to amputate his leg because there was an issue with the balloon pump that they inserted in his leg to keep blood flowing to his heart and they were still certain that he was going to die, but they felt the need to do something so fast forward through the ordeal and ten days later. he did emerge from his coma and not only was he alive and well, but he had all his mental facilities his mental capabilities because another thing that doctors were certain about is an off chance if he didn't die he was going to be a vegetable and completely unresponsive and so he's here today and he's alive and well minus one leg, but my point in telling that story and others in my forward there there are a couple other personal tales as well is is to make people think everybody in lives has had a doctor. tell them something with certainty only to find out that it's not true. and if you haven't had that happen to you, you know, somebody it's happened to and yet with this coronavirus. we forgot that we forgot that you know doctors are great at what they do and they should be held in high regard, but the fact is in america it still comes down for personal choice a personal decision and doctors aren't god. they don't know with certainty no matter how much they tell you. they do the white house and other reporting leading up to this week talking about one million deaths and relating that to covid. how do you take that figure in light of what you write about in the book or at least the theme you write about it's very sad to me very distressing because early on what i discovered and i'm talking early on within the first couple months of the coronavirus in america. was that the data what was was so wrong. it was skewed for one example of this hospital. were actually incentivized to report more cases of coronavirus because governors in their respective states told hospitals and clinics to stop doing medical procedures in order to make room for this huge flow of covid patients that they were predicted to have to deal with and so hospitals had a huge funding stream cut short and so congress of course stepped up and they created a bill that gave hospitals and clinics around the nation money to treat covid patients. well, so hospitals were in that rock in a hard place anytime. somebody came into their facility. they tested them for covid and because they were short on cash it made sense in incentivize them to report massive cases of covid, but we never really are clear on whether people in hospitals were treated for covid or treated with covid whether they died from covid whether died with covid and so now if you look at the statistics that came out from early on those statistics are still being built upon in today's statistics and data used to justify coronavirus clamp downs and coronavirus funding. so i questioned the stats and just as every american citizen citizen should as well our guest with us until ten o'clock and if you want to ask her questions about her books our book 202 748 8,000 for democrats 202748 8,000 one for republicans 202 748 8,000 to for independence, and you can text your questions or comments as well at 202748. 8003 charles chumley a couple more lines from you book you wrote this they will they want to lock down. they want total complete lockdowns of individual freedoms individual rights individually held liberty so they can stage their reset and reshape a new america and new world more in line with their collectivists and elitist beliefs. it's called destroy then rebuild what destroying as the constitution what they're trying to rebuild is cultural marxism and communist control beware be warned be armed with the truth to fight. can i ask who that they is in all that? yes. i'm glad you did because i was about to explain it. anyhow, so the world economic forum and klaus schwab, who is the founder of the world economic forum has penned on the world economic forum web page we forum.org don't take my word for it go there and read it yourself and agenda called the great reset in and in the world economic forums claus schwab's own words. they want to take this pandemic because they see it as a once in a lifetime opportunity and use it to bring about broad changes not just in america, but around the world, but america is the stumbling block to some of these changes that the great reset vision has in store for us and and one of the agendas that the world economic forum has in store is to the definition of capitalism because here in america we have the free market system and businesses are in business to make money, right? it's profit versus loss that decides the success or failure of a business. well the great reset has a new form of capitalism. they talk about it. be more in line with what china does and they call it stakeholder capitalism versus shareholder capitalism and stakeholder capitalism opens the doors for businesses to be rated failures or success is based on the social justice agendas that they promote that they get in line with and that they fund and this is why you have in large part a woke corporate culture out there a lot of these businesses that are pushing social justice environmental things black lives matter agendas and so forth and so on they have signed on to this great reset put forth by the world economic forum. so that's one example of the day but march when i say they in that in that context that you read i'm talking about the globalists at the united nations at the world economic forum those in america who want to partake of this new great reset and if if that's the case and that's that's being laid out the world economic forum then do they what mechanics are they have to do that to achieve that if it's if it's a desire of theirs well, how would you see that right well again taking information right from the great reset pages posted at the world economic forum a couple of ways that they achieved this by force right because a lot of american citizens may not want to play with that but a lot of the ways they do is by getting banks involved or getting insurance companies involved. so say you're a business in america and you say you know what? i don't want to go down that great reset route. i want to just stay my business. keep it profit versus loss and i don't want to play into the social justice agenda. well, that's great. but the insurance attorney that ensures you so you can do business may play along with the great reset or the bank where you get funding may play along with the great reset. so in order to compete in this new business you're going to have to sign off on on paperwork that shows what you're doing to promote social justice in order to say to get a bank loan or in order say to continue ensuring your business. so there are very many safeguards that that the world economic forum has in place in order to achieve their ultimate endgame and in my book i point out a lot more of how this plays out in america and also offer some ways that americans can fight. i'm sure with some say that at least to what you're trying to propose there. it's a conspiracy theory and how do you respond to that? well, you know conspiracy theory sounds like it's something that's just a figment of imagination and this isn't this this is this is actually happening. and once again, don't take my word for it go to weforum.org and look up the great reset. this is out in the open and if you also look at joe biden our own president he has on if you go back in time to his campaign website. he has an agenda laid out called the buildback better and he has statements that he's made in the past about joining into this great reset. and so if you look at how america is positioned right now, we're following right in line with this administration with what the world economic forum wants to achieve which is why the world economic forum wants to just piggyback on this pandemic right now because you know time is short. the next president may not be in line with this great reset. the book is called lockdown the socialist plan to take away your freedom cheryl chumlee our guests. she also writes for the washington. she's their online opinion editor. you can see your columns and work there edward in new jersey. independent line you're up first for our guests. good morning. good morning. i'd like to say that socialism is empowerment of marginalized people and that's important now because the free world is only 18% of the global population. so if we're going to have any competition against the rest of the world, you know, we need to have empowers many people as possible and my other real question to you is you throw around day in this a lot. you know, it's just like you they people have infiltrated the bikini grove and all these other things and you know, no one has found any evidence here. can you point to me some card carrying agenda and members that you speak of they all these you listed five groups of socialists and whatever and i highly doubt even there's no historical president that five groups of socialists ever got together and agreed upon anything. so that's where i stand on a lot of this. okay and finish your thought edward. we're not just social the socialism is empowerment of marginalized people. that's it. okay, gotcha, charlotte. i disagree. i i think socialism is a rot a cancer on society and i think it steals the the talents that god gives each and every one of his creations at birth the socialists socialism takes that and puts it up for the collective to decide whether or not you could use those talents you have at birth and and make a profit and support your family and i just think that there is a, you know settled history that socialism has created more chaos has driven more people in poverty and has resulted in more deaths than any free market. from judith judith in michigan, farmington, michigan democrats line your next good morning. yes, i just wanted to comment on when she was first talking about how socialists are putting the fear in people well with this last republican politicians, they are gas lighting the american people with their fear and they started off with the sphere of immigrants fear of muslims fear of blacks. fear of them taking your jobs fear of crt that transgender people and they're just and then it was fear of wearing a mask fear of this virus or fear of the vaccine. so the republicans and the politicians are instilling fear in the american people and that's how they deflect on what they're doing, which is trying to gain power and money and try to corrupt the system for their own gain. so they're just throwing out all these different things these conspiracy theories. obama was a secret muslim and all of these different things. so we're being gaslighted and she's contributing to that. and so just i'm just not listening to her. i'm not going to read a book and she sounds crazy to me because i've known people who have died from the coronavirus and it's a new virus. so of course it's going to seem like you know, that doctors don't know what they're doing. they didn't just like with the ebola and the spanish flu. okay, okay caller. thanks put a lot out there for our guest to respond to mr. chumlee. go ahead. oh, well, i mean she's not listening to me. so i'm not sure how to respond to that. i would just say that i'll take everything she said and take out the word democrat and put republican in instead. what do mean by that? i mean that or i'll take out everything. she said about republicans and put the word democrat in it's not republicans that are creating this hysteria of fear over the coronavirus or hysterical fear over borders and so forth. the republicans are basically trying to do the law in order route and then the media calm and the leftist come and they twist that into being something that it's not just as an example immigration republicans aren't against immigration republicans are against open borders. and so then the media come along or those on the left and they say, oh republicans are racist because they don't want they don't want immigration. so that's not exactly true. that's where the real gas lighting occurs on the side of democrats when you talk since you talk about the coronavirus your book is entitled lockdown going back to the early days of lockdowns particularly because the term flatten the curve was used and things like that. do you think that was a necessary? your early on when ventilators and hospitals were overrun and what do you think about those early on days? was there a role for it? i guess that's what i'm asking. yeah. i understand what you're saying and actually in this book. i do have a little bit of a criticism for the donald trump administration mostly because of allowing anthony found she and deborah brooks in the medical bureaucrats to have such influence in such a platform so early on when the virus was first coming to america. yes. we didn't know what it was, but the thing was when donald trump tried to do common sense reactions and responses to this he was attacked. he was put in a rock in a hard place. he tried to shut down travel from china. he was attacked. he tried to control at the borders. he was attacked and then later on he was attacked because when he stepped back from doing some of the his initial gut reaction things to secure america from the virus, then he was attacked because he didn't do some of the things that he wanted to do. first place so it was politicized from the start and i would have to say that if if we face another pandemic what i would like to see out of our white house whether it's led by a republican or a democrat is to never force people into doing certain actions always just suggest advice give the best case recommendations from the medical community but never again with the force closures never again with the forcing of the face masks when you then say the best suggestions of the medical community. you wouldn't put dr. fauci in that list. you wouldn't put dr. burks in that list, or how would you clarify them in light of that statement? well, obviously they have more medical experience than i do right? i'm not a fan of anthony faucia by any means but at the same time i recognize that he is more studied in infectious diseases than i am. so i want to hear from him, but what i don't want is for his words to trickle down into society as if they're mandates. and and dictates and that they're supposed to be obeyed no matter what and especially when you look at the medical bureaucrats including anthony fauci and on one day they say this on another day. they say that and american citizens are supposed to jump and obey no matter how conflicting the advisements are. so yes, i want to hear from anthony fauci, but i want to hear from anthony fauci as part of a group of people who can also also suggest how best american citizens can protect themselves with the emphasis on protecting selves. you probably you mentioned a dr. burke. you probably know that she has a book out. she recently talked to our folks at book tv about it and one of the things she talked about was those early days of the lockdown at least the justification and the thought process going into it. i want to play a little bit of what she had to say and get your response to it. i just want to make it clear you don't do a lockdown unless there is a crisis and we were in crisis we could see what was happening and italy i had modeled out on the case fatality rate in italy and they're excellent medical care and what they were learning and they still had extraordinary case fatality rates. i was looking at our case fatality raids pace fatality rate in those individuals over 70. that means if you were 70 and diagnosed with covid 30% of those individuals were coming to this virus and so we didn't have a treatment we didn't know about clotting we didn't have ventilator's and we didn't have ppe and we were barely keeping up and i i just want to be very clear we were behind in the human capacity needed to treat these patients. i mean we didn't have enough human capacity. if we had had 25 new yorks in our city's greater than a million people without a lockdown. that's and you how you end up with literally hundreds of thousands to millions of people dying. again, that was dr. burke cheryl chumley your response. hey, i mean it that's her opinion, you know, she's looking at italy and she's applying what took place in italy to america and look it. it sounds bad what she says but all along the medical bureaucrats have been predicting this predicting that gloom predicting this doom now only to be proven wrong anthony fauci early on in the in the pandemic he came out and he predicted x amount of deaths based on computer modeling, which is the same type of bloom and doom modeling that climate change alarm is used to predict that if in say 12 years, we don't take these regulatory controls on human activity, then the world is going to expire go up and smoke and we're all we're all going to die. well anthony fountain did the same thing based on computer modeling and i'm assuming that deborah burks who worked closely hand in hand with anthony. biology use those same type of statistics and data in order to justify clampdowns and lockdowns, but look the hospitals in america were not hugely overrun with covid patients. you have to put these in context you have to put the data from hospitals in context and if you look at their emergency wards, you have to compare them to the bed count the previous year before the pandemic and many of these stats coming out that said that hospitals were overrun with covid patients in in context looking back through history and putting them in context with other years. it didn't happen. those weren't over the hospitals weren't overrun with patients. so many of these gloom and doom predictions that apparently deborah brooks is still making to the to this day didn't happen and they're not based on truthful stats. what's that's where you refer to than the baked that that basis then well if you look if there are books out there written by some people that i know who have done statistical analysis of the coronavirus michael beatrice is one and he has gone back in time and he's actually analyzed the stats of hospital beds in icu's and he's looked at the numbers of patients who are admitted during the covid years versus the numbers of patients who are admitted before the covid years and where you get the the difference where you can try and glean the truth from fact or truth from myth about covid patients is when you start looking at the excess beds when you start looking at the at the at the beds for taking by covid patients above and beyond what is normal and in many instances the beds that were taken by covid patients, we're not going above and beyond what is normal for i see you and and emergency clinics in the years before the virus so it's difficult. like i said, the data has been skewed and it's difficult to see nowadays. what's truth from from myth, but there are some people out there who have done an excellent job of looking simply at the stats and not getting involved with the politics. the book is called lockdown the socialist plan to take away your freedom cheryl chumley our guest to discuss it. let's hear from john cincinnati, ohio republican line. go ahead. yes, thank you for taking my call. i think a bigger problem is the fact that we perverted the definition of what our constitution in our end, you know declaration of independence has become the bullying. whatever faction you fall in whether it be a fascist faction a socialist faction of marxist fashion. they're all playing king of the hill to get elected. so then they can use their particular agenda to bully the rest of us and our constitution was set up to protect the minority than the yeah the minority from the minority bullying them, but we've just continued to perpetrate this bully and fraud of our constitution since about 1804. so until we wake up and figure out that each one of us get to decide our own burdens incumbrances and obligations and have a right of redress under our constitution and article 4 section 2 the citizens of each state shall be entitled to the same privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states. then we're going to continue to fight and have wars because nobody wants to be bullied. okay, that's that's john there, cincinnati, ohio. a i missed the question if there was one i'm not sure how to answer that caller dustin from lancaster, pennsylvania democrats hello. you're next. hi. yes. thank you for taking my call. i i'm having trouble reconciling a few things one of which is that the you know talking about the load on hospitals and how it wasn't really different from years past, but the number of nurses who are retiring from their profession the number of health care professionals who have this entire pandemic so that they are overwhelmed and that there are not enough resources for them. really, you know has made it sound at least and the data would back it up even that we've just passed 1 million deaths from covid. that they are in fact overwhelmed by this pandemic and that the pandemic is still ongoing and that we are not doing nearly enough as the country and as individual states to maintain it. so i guess my question then is how do you reconcile the fact that we are in fact going through a massive crisis in our healthcare system with your claim that the pandemic has been overstated and overblown and that we have not. you know and and that we have done too much to take care of it because it really does feel like haven't done nearly enough. thank you. thank you, colin. thanks for that question. i actually think it feels like we haven't done enough because much in the media and on the left want to continue to exploit the pandemic to make it seem like we haven't done enough in order to justify continuing controls on american citizens and look the pandemic has a recovery rate of about 99% if you look at certain polls depending on what political party you align yourself with there's a huge difference in whether you can whether you consider that true or not democrats by and large think that once you catch the coronavirus you have like a 50 or 60% chance of dying. republicans on the other hand think that if you catch the coronavirus you have like an 85% chance of recovering. well, the truth is you you have like a 99% chance of recovering and if let me ask you this if we are still in a emergency health crisis then what's the deal with the vaccines? do they work or not work because it seems to me you can't have both you can't have an emergency health declaration like we still have in this country joe biden continue to that declaration in march and yet at the same time say that these vaccines work. so it's it seems to me that the media is the one that is sort of continuing this idea that we are still in this emergency situation and if we had some cooler head approaches putting things in more context instead of just throwing out numbers in case counts as if they mean something then maybe american citizens wouldn't be living in so much fear. right now would you say we're post-pandemic at this point? absolutely. and why would you base that on? yeah, just the stats and figures. i mean you can't be in a pandemic if if most people are recovering from it. you know, it just it doesn't even make sense to say that we're in a pandemic right now. mickey is joining us from new york and rockaway park independent line. good morning. good morning. miss chimney i have a question for you about what he my eyes i saw people dying in hospital beds. i saw people unable to have their family there at the last minute. this was not what donald trump called it a hoax republicans call this a hoax and now do to the lies that last individual number one. best and long haul long haul effects, and now there's a 60% rise in children's infections today. so why do you keep spreading this sauce? it's you say it's socialist agenda fascism struck on january 6th 2021 when the fastest try to restrict the peaceful transfer power you are nothing more than an inquirer type, you know fearful of everything that last person said that okay. okay. well, let us respond. i didn't say the virus was a hoax. i said the the political response to the virus as a hoax and i believe that's what donald trump said himself and as for the well i what what exactly was the question. i'm not sure pedro. can you what what was the i think it was all asking again as some has the basis for for the claims you make in your book and everything else as far as the state of the pandemic or at least the way you see the pandemic. well, i do note everything in my book. it's not just something of figment of imagination or whatever it you know, i go through the facts in my book. and so for people who want to fuller explanation certainly read it, but as for my my i guess response to what he says. look fear is a huge political tool and the democrats of course, their their famous saying is never let a crisis go to waste and that's what i found has occurred over the last two-plus years of the pandemic that the left is busily using this crisis for an advancement of political agenda. what about states and localities having the ability or what the decisions they make about the pandemic i ask because there's even reporting as of yesterday in san jose, california the imposition of mass murder in mandates for some workers some other states in localities making that call as well. are you comfortable with those entities making decisions about coronavirus related matters? no, not on face masks certainly not that's an individual choice and there are so many studies out there. now that show, you know, the face mask don't work because when you define the word work from the medical perspective work is supposed to mean that it stops. of the pandemic at least that's what the general understanding of the phrase face mask work. that's what most people take from that but the idea that face mask can be shoved into someone's pocket and pull down to go into a restaurant and then you put the face mask on at the restaurant door, but then 10 feet later when you're seated at the table you get to take the face mask off, but your server still has to wear a face mask and you go into seven eleven and they have a plastic shield up. so the air i guess when i don't know, i don't know why the shields are up as well. there's space is above and below the shield and you're still supposed to wear a face mask as if this stops the spread of the coronavirus. it's ridiculous at this point, and i understand what you're asking about states rights and so forth and localities and i am a big believer in government should be strongest at the local level and then the state and then the fed but on face masks in particular, i think that's an individ. more choice, and i i don't think that the localities even should have the right to impose those. let's hear from mark. he is illinois republican line. hi. yeah, i think it's interesting here your guests talk about how she doesn't have an answer for fact-based questions. like what's her favorite line? what's the question again? that's because she's operating from a non-factual basically line of questioning. like where does she get her facts from where like when you're just now talking about you what the locals to have the most control but yet you don't want federal government involvement politics is politics like you just want local like hacks to have control your life, but not federal hacks. like i don't get it like where are your facts based reasons coming from? okay, that's mark. i guess because i'm an american citizen and as an american citizen, i know my rights come from god and government is only there to protect them and i also know as an american citizen that the constitution was set up in order to support that great american exceptionalism of god-given rights. so that's where i take my facts from first about nine more minutes with our guests before we throw to that hearing cheryl chumlee. i want to ask you about news of recent days. i want to ask you about this week draft from the supreme court potentially looking at over overturning of row through v wade. do you think that's a possibility of happening and what happens on the state level like you talked about if it does well, of course, it seems to be that it could actually happen. you know, we've all seen the leaked memo. we've all seen the reports about the leaked memo. but again, that's a leaked memo. it's not the final decision yet. so i think that americans should actually sit back and wait for a final decision before they get up in arms about what may or may not happen. the left is busily protesting going to supreme court justices doors places of home their residents places of residence going even in some cases to churches to protest what they think may happen. but look rovie wade is a decision that even ruth bader ruth ginsburg said was was slated to be tossed out because it was always a a matter that should have been left to the states to decide. so i think if up being a state's decision in line with the 10th amendment. that's a good thing and i think then the people's voices can be heard in the various respective states and legislators will have to go on record, which is something that is great for a government of transparency and accountability and decide whether or not they want abortion in their respective states, and of course that will be more in line with the people's will so it's a good thing for america what that mind then you're senator schumer and this week they'll be debate on a potential legislation, which is expected to go nowhere to federalize abortion protections. senator mcconnell said there was the possibility he emphasize that of a national portion band if republicans take control of the senate. do you think either one of those options is the proper role the federal government on this issue? i don't you know the constitution limits what the federal government can do and it's pretty clear that abortion is something that belongs in the hands of the states and the people let's hear from john. this is john in sacramento, california democrats line. go ahead you're on. yeah not here and i like to say that you've really good one again. you guys keep bringing on these negative republican people. who's jay doing nothing, but destroying our country. she's just like donald trump another one in his past. yes. we've invited the call the guests to come on our program caller to talk about these issues since you're on with her. what question would you like to address with her? i like to know if she would want a teaching santa democrats are trying to turn the country into a common this country. what about this authoritarianism that you're for your former president? it was trying to bring it on america. are you in favor of authoritarianism or do you like our democracy here? are you just like the rest of you republicans against? america well, i'm definitely opposed to authoritarianism. i don't think that donald trump represented authority authoritarianism and i'm definitely in favor of a democratic republic that are great nation is from our line for independence. we will hear from loretta next. she's in mississippi loretta. good morning. yes, ma'am. i'm glad to hear of other opinions in the media. about the coronavirus i've had people die, and i've called it and i've had side effects from mcdermashot that i took it because i was scared of my son catching it because he's a teenager, but i will not give it to my son because effects is done to people's hearts that have heard about it, but my sister too and i'm glad about the bill of rights. we had the bill of rights and with the covid the lockdown it took away people's rights. and the real the rights is for the people. and i'm glad that she could speak and have different opinions so we could disagree and agree, but everybody has their rights bill of rights in the constitution and abortion thing is going to be through back to the states. the states have the right decide it needs to be more local and if you don't like it, you can move to another state, but you have a right to side which state you live and you have rights assistant have your bill of of rights as a human being. that's loretta, mississippi. well, i'm glad for freedom of speech as well though. i have seen quite a bit of stifling of freedom of speech under the coronavirus for the last couple years and there's a worrisome outcome of this of labeling certain speech that seems to deviate from the government stamped speech as dangerous speech as misinformation as disinformation, and i think we all need to pay attention to what comes out of this white house in terms of creating a board of misinformation or disinformation because that could put a an immediate clamp on speech that some dean offensive. this is from john. he's in maryland republican line john. go ahead. we're running a little short on time. so go ahead. will your question or comment, please associate other great mr. emily world economic forum and other similar organizations, where where do they get their funding? do they get it from? communist countries or do you have any information on that? well briefly america funds some of these you know un type agencies as well as as all the other nations of the world their global groups funded by global governments. that is john in joppa, maryland cheryl chumlee when you write this book, what's i guess what would you like people to take away from it if they give it a read and read it through what would you like them to take away from it? i would like people to take away from it the need to keep the fight in mind in america. it's the battle for god-given rights and to look ahead at what's coming down the pike and to determine now to step outside your comfort zone and fight because of prepandemic normal normalcy isn't coming unless american citizens insist on it. our guest is the online opinion editor for the washington times. she's all so the author of the book lockdown the socialist plan to take away your freedom cheryl chumlee. thg top non-fiction authors about their latest work. mark the dumbest generation grows up is a follow-up to a book you wrote in 2008 also about the dumbest generation. so if you could start just by telling us how you define this cohort of young americans and now not so young americans less young americans that you've written about. i think that would be a helpful place to begin. yes the term first of all the dumbest generation i steal from philip roth. it's in one of his novels and he's referring to young young people. and so i i took that in 2008 to apply to the millennials the