Transcripts For CSPAN3 Carol Moseley Braun Oral History Interview 20170305

Black leadership oral History Collection posted by university of virginia posted by hostedity hsoted by university of virginia. She talks about growing up surrounded by artists and musicians. She also discusses her early political career before her election the senate as a democrat from illinois. She served as ambassador to new zealand during the clinton administration. The interview approximately an hour and 45 minutes was conducted by julian bond. Carol moseley braun, thank you for our explorations in black leadership should best leadership. Senator braun thank you. Happy to be here. And made a huge difference, because in that year, or maybe the year after, we moved from the heart of chicagos black belt to a neighborhood that was on the cutting edge of integration. As a result, i was able to go to a public school. Starting in the third grade. It had previously been all white. Traumas as a result of that. This was a result of the time of that whole nuclear scare. When rocks would be thrown would duckows, we and cover under the desks. Father who was himself avactivist joined with our al raby and the community i forget what it all stood for, but it was a group organized to protest the segregation of chicago schools. Mr. Bond which later brought dr. King to chicago. Senator braun exactly. I actually marked with him on the housing march. They were using something called willis wagon. wagon. Willis the superintendent of the school was named bruce ben willis. He used these trailers. In the black neighborhood, you had these trailers to augment the population of black students and under crowding in the white schools. They started protesting that to say that brown versus board of education requires that the schools be integrated to the extent possible. We have to get it fixed here in chicago. Mr. Bond do you remember at this young age, when you go to this new school, did you have any larger thoughts on what this meant to the larger world, the larger United States . What brown might mean nationwide . Senator braun at that point, i did not. I did later. We had in unusual household, because my parents did not consider themselves bohemians, but we were surrounded by artists and musicians. People from a lot of different walks of life. We always had an integrated household. There were always discussions of Race Relations and development in the larger communities. Even as a small child, i was acutely aware of the efforts of people to build an integrated society. Mr. Bond im guessing hopeful that it will be a good thing that will happen . Senator braun i just assumed, werese, as a child, they black people in my family, white people in my family, asian people in my family. I grew up in this multicultural view, so i did not see these early problems. My earliest recollection i had, my greatgrandfather had a farm in alabama that is still in the family. We would go there in the summertime. I could not be more than eight years old, maybe nine years old or 10 years old, and we would take the train down. We got off in montgomery. ,e got off the train, my mother myself, and my little brother. We were thirsty, but the water fountains were segregated. My mother would not let us drink out of the colored water fountain. So my brother is screaming on the floor. Some colored water. He thought it was going to come out green, blue, or read. He did not understand the implications of what that is all was all about. Mr. Bond we are now approaching anniversary for brown. What do you think it has turned out to mean . Senator braun i think it has had very mixed reviews. On the one hand, the integration of the schools was achieved on some levels. Faculty, in regards to in regards to hiring those kind of things have occurred across the country. On the other, i think it has ghettoizationthe of Public Education. A lot of constituencies to pay for the Public Schools vanished in the postbrown environment. There are those who say there are a lot of Different Reasons for it and that race and integration were not the only reason, but i imagine it is documentable. When you look at the level of public support for Public Education nationwide, it is so diminished from the standing of Public Education 50 years ago. The kind of Financial Support that communities gave to Public Education. That is a phenomena across the board even with education highest levels. Think thee time, i constituencies for Public Education was changed by the brown decision. Mr. Bond i read something you said in 1994 that the most interesting change in america since 1954 was the way in which attitudes about life station have changed. What did you mean by that . Senator braun the notion that blacks were relegated to a specific set of roles in society. The fact that women were relegated to a specific set of roles in society, but ethnicity in society. That ethnicity limited people to what they thought they could do. A sense of station in life. It has changed the most. I think that is what the culture revolution of the 1950s and 60s reflected more than any anything else. That change in station. Andries of realignments adjustments in how we define Civil Society. By any standard, you are a remarkably accomplished worsen. I any standard accomplished person. Standard by any standard. Senator braun thank you. Mr. Bond without the brown decision, do you think you would have been a different person . Senator braun without a doubt. All the leadership of the Civil Rights Movement from those days transformed this country and opened up doors and made it possible for people like myself to come through and have the a college mens that are now part of my resume. Have the accomplishments that are now part of my resume. Senator,e to become a none of it would have happened without the efforts of people who put their own lives at risk to open up, integrate, and change the society of the United States. Mr. Bond who are the people that have most shaped you and help you develop . Senator braun other than my parents, which is pretty obvious, i have been blessed to have people come into my life at pivotal moments and make all the difference. When i dropped out of college, ipped out of high school met someone who essentially turned my whole vision around and suggested to me that i could horizons. Roaden my mary hopkins made a big difference in that point of my life. When i got to the state , senator alexander was elected at the same time that i was. However, she was a generation older. She made a huge difference. There were people along the way who touched my life at times when i might have taken one road or another. By their influence, it has made a big difference. Mr. Bond you mentioned your mother and father a moment ago. He said they were not bohemians, but they live in the artistic world. What about them . Senator braun my parents had an unusual marriage to begin with. It was a small to us marriage tumultuous marriage from the beginning. My mother was not social. She had a little group of people who gravitated to her. She was seen as a sort of earth people who attracted towards her, but she was not very outgoing. My father was very outgoing. He was involved in movements and causes. He always engaged with the outside world. Heesult, he wound up was a police officer. Being in Law Enforcement was his day gig, but he did play seven instruments. He played the saxophone part time professionally. E was in a band i actually have a picture of the band. My mother is sitting on the sidelines. I think she was singing that night. He played in a band, and the result was that the musicians of that day and time were very much part of our household. Up knowing charlie parker. Dated Dexter Gordon for a while. All these musicians were around as i was growing up. In addition to the musicians, there were the artists. Arts. Grew up around the , i thinks or otherwise that also influenced my worldview. Mr. Bond i read someplace that you describe the difference between your mother and father as the difference between booker t. Washington and wb to voice wb deploys w. B. Dubois. How did that play out . Senator braun she had this expression that you do the best job where you planted. Whether you are a street sweeper or the president of the United States, you do the best job you can, and you be proud of your work. A this isuch the job, this is the task. She did not see the world outside our family is very relevant. He did see the world, and he was very concerned about the world. He did what he could in his way to make a difference. , i think,ial activism was born of that. First, a woman by the name of Anna Langford the first female, black, alter woman in chicago. Meet a black, woman alderman. There was another woman judge. He took me to meet her. Mind, and soroad we would we were raised catholic. That was a kind of family compromise, but we did explore other religions with him. Fromuld take us two things buddhist temples to jewish centers. S, muslims sunday, go to mass on and then on the saturday before or later on that sunday, we would go to some other service once a month. Chance without knowing it was part of my education, i had a chance to learn about World Religions of an early age. ,r. Bond about Anna Langford did this put something in your mind that you could do this someday . Senator braun i do not think so. Hink my attitude was more no, i dont. I not think of myself did not envision a political career as all at all until i was running for office. It was not something i thought relevanceng any real to my own career. Mr. Bond what about your grandmother . Senator braun i had very different grandmothers. My mothers mother, who i call my guardian angel, she went to mass every morning. Every day she went to mass. She lived a very structured, calm life. Tragedy was filled with she was a person in whom i nurturing, refuge, comfort, and guidance. Was a blackndmother nationalist. Theas what they called men. Nt the race been muslims from north africa i gather. That has kind of been lost in the midst of time. Anyways, she became a muslim. I went with her to hear a light to mohammed speak Elijah Mohammed speak. There was a convention in gary, indiana in 1972. I went under the auspices of someone who was a mentor to me at the time. I looked up, and there is this little woman coming down the walk through the gymnasium. She had on this muslim are garb. I asked her what she was doing near, and she said she was here to be with her people. She was very much a black nationalist. Being muslim. An amalgamation of muslim beliefs that Elijah Mohammed represented. Mr. Bond your mother went to dillard . Senator braun yes. Mr. Bond i wonder if that is connected to your seeking the type of education you suck you sought . Not necessarily law school, but that you had to go to college. Absolutely. N college was a big deal in my family. When i dropped out, that was awful. , when i dropped out, i got a good paying job working for the Chicago Housing authority. They made me a community and tenant relations eight. It meant that i went around and gave poor people five day notice is to get out of the project. As it turned out, hawkins had just started what he called the program. In which he tried to use sports to try and reclaim kids from some underprivileged homes and circumstances. Sports as a hook to get them in for tutoring, to broaden their horizons and get them interested in other things. Just by osmosis i was not technically part of his group, what the people i were but the people i were in charge of work. As a result, when the summer was over, at that point i had fire in my belly to get myself to school and do something. Did you take any musical ability or interest from your father . He was such an accomplished musician playing seven instruments. What about you . Senator braun absolutely nothing. I played the clarinet little bit. We had a pno in the house always. A teacher would hit a pno in a piano in the house always. I had a teacher who would hit my hand with the ruler. That was about the end of that. I was home one day practicing the clarinet, and my uncle told you might want to think about taking up something else. That was the end of me playing the clarinet. Mr. Bond how did your fathers political activism rub off on you . Senator braun it was a generation apart, but he was always against the machine. This is important in terms of people politics, because think of the daley machine with chicago politics. There were a group of internet independents out there who thought of the machine as antithetical to civil rights. That was always the side of the equation that he was on. He worked in the campaign for the first, one of the early black politicians who challenged the daley machine. He ran as a reform candidate. My father was in real estate at that time. The office that he and his partner had come up when they had a meeting for the candidate, the city inspector came to say that the water was leaking and da, so theyda da shut them down. You can imagine there was some anger and antipathy towards the daley machine in our household. Its funny, because later i got to know rich daily, the son. There was no will no small amount of irony. Our household had been religiously antidaily down the road. Mr. Bond was there a lots of discussion about the machine . Illinois politics or United States politics . Inator braun he was active local Campaign Efforts and union Campaign Efforts. There was a streetcar fight to get blacks jobs working for the transportation company. He would do things like that. His political vision was more national and international. Aso not remember him being involved with illinois politics as national or international. I do not think he voted in primaries, because he got he was concerned because he did not want to a clear declare which party you belong to. I do not expect to be that. I did not expect to stage a sit in. But it did happen. It seemed the right thing to not move, so i did not. Mr. Bond a moment ago, you mentioned marching with dr. King during the housing struggles in chicago. Tell us about that. How old were you then . Senator braun i think i was 15 years old or 16 years old. I was still in high school. My mother had cautioned me. At this point, my mother and father were split up. We lived with my mother. I remember her saying, you do not want to get mixed up with that. There is bound to be trouble. That was just a sign to me that i had to go out. So, we marched down 60 seven st 67 street to get to gauge park. There were nuns in front of me. I remember this vividly as if it was yesterday. It was a kind of turning point. We marched, and then rocks and bottles started flying. A guy i was marching with was hit by a rocket. Blood was pouring down his face, and i was just portrayed horrified. Cap calls were coming from the ls were comingl from the side. Catholic family, in the nuns marching in front of me were being called horrible names. I was horrified at that. There was a guy standing by the side of the road who was my age. Maybe a little bit younger, 12 years old or 13 years old. Gowas yelling, semihumans home at one point. Ye we marched to the park itself. Violence was so horrible i do not recollect gunshots, but i know there were rocks, bottles, bricks, glass. They put the women and children in the middle of the circle. There were activists around that. The hardcore activists were on the outside perimeter. It got so bad that dr. King was moved to the middle of the circle. He was as close to me as this girl right over there. Because you sort of cover your head up like this, that we were down on the ground. He was standing there and looking just as calm in the face of all this. I remember it was an epiphany for me, because i was ready to throw something back. That was my first reaction. The next rock that falls near me is going right back out there. The tiffany in that moment or me the uks any in that moment iphany in that moment for me was the real power of nonviolence, of peaceful resistance. His example of claiming the moral high ground. He had the victory. Had he stooped, he would have been on the same level against whom he was fighting. I then became committed to nonviolence and his movement compared to some of my friends who were beginning to gravitate towards the panthers, getting the gun and shooting back. All that. Mr. Bond earlier, because your mother and father separated, you moved into a neighborhood with a spectacular name. What was that name . Senator braun the bucket of blood . Mr. Bond what was that like for you . Senator braun it was rather traumatic. It is one of those life traumas i am grateful for now. It probably set my brother on a did of destruction, but i not think i would have been as grounded in the black experience they had not been for that. If it had not been for that. We grew up in a community and a family, again among blacks, we were not rich people by any means, that we were well off but we were well off. My parents were not social part ofe part of the black luge was the bhuj rich. E black they were not part of that, but they were also part of the black intellectuals. That was where they were. I really did not have a real sense of what the poverty was like. Degradation that came with the sort of grinding poverty that the urban ghettos represented. , have seen poverty before especially on the farm. I had seen People Living in houses with dirt floors. Outhouses, all that. I had not seen it with people piled into tenements. People getting shot on the street corner. Mr. Bond what did that do for you . Senator braun i think it really helped round out and help me develop in important ways. It gave me an understanding and appreciation of the effects of not just slavery and jim crow but of oppression and particularly economic oppression. Me another kind of vision about my own Life Commitments and my own path should that included owned path. That included doing what i could to push back and be in opposition to the forces that had created the kind of poverty i experienced. Mr. Bond im guessing that is one of the reasons he decided to become a lawyer. What did you think that would give you . Senator braun i thought being a abilityould give me the to use the law, which is the instrument of social control, to use that instrument in a constructive and positive ways. To help build community and help people have opportunity and a chance at a better life. When i first got out of law school, i turned down a big offer from one of the biggest firms in chicago to sign onto a communitybased organization. Training tomy legal work in the community. That was my first minute. When that did not work out, i became an assistant u. S. Attorney. My father called me a paper pusher for the government. But that was my path. Mr. Bond where the lawyers in chicago or elsewhere you wanted to be like . Senator braun sure. This model of elegance. She was just the cats pajamas as far as i was concerned. I looked up to her. I mentioned in a langford Anna Langford. I knew about Thurgood Marshall and the Legal Defense team of the naacp. Everyone knew about them. These were people who used the law to transform society. So, there were a lot of role models. Mr. Bond what was being an like . Ant ta like da senator braun wonderful training. I could not ask for better. I did not like the criminal prosecution. I did some of it, but i did not like it much. I helped write the brief on the first rico case. The first rico case in illinois in regards to the prosecution of the former governor of illinois. The turner case. I had a chance to work on some high profile cases, but i preferred the civil ones. The thing about that was it gave of the structure and operation of the law that i would not have had otherwise. Ineal taste of policy issues ways i would not have had otherwise. Chair of therd lawsuit that the American Medical Society put against jimmy carsons medical reform. I read every line of health care laws. Withews on how health care structured developed at that point helped shape i view on Health Care Even to this day. I was involved in environment of cases the helped to shape environmental law. Variety ere a housing, health care, poverty cases. All of the cases that i got a chance to try. You got great trial experience in court every day. Antid me to develop appreciation for the issues. Mr. Bond how did you go from that to being part of the legislature . What was the transition here . Senator braun being a homemaker. Was pregnant with my son my husband wanted me to be a stayathome mom, and i had no problem with that. I had my son, and i was a homemaker. Was bored day says i out of my mind. He knew i was not going to stay a homemaker. I look back at having dinner parties, and i kind of romanticize it. I would take my son to the park. I would go to the market. I did things in the home. I was a homemaker. I took care of my family, and it that i had myat first foray into state politics. Parkld take matt up to the , and, while i was up there, there were a group of people protesting. They were protesting against the machine holding a driving range in a habitat. Keep and protect the habitat. I joined the protesters. Meriend sent a picture of holding a sign from that protest. E lost the driving range is still there. That, a woman who was one of the protesters was very involved politically. When our state representative retired, i met her again and she stopped me and said, the state. Ep announced their retirement have you considered running for the state legislature . I think you would be good at it. I told her no, because i had a child. But i told her i would go to the Community Meeting with her. A guy stood up and said do not no one will vote for you. At that point, it was like where do i sign up . A. Bond did the machine run candidate against you . Senator braun oh, yes. , this gets a little convoluted, but i think you will appreciate the nuances. Illinois had a multimember district voting system. Brilliantly for 100 years. Lateabolished it in the 1980s. But we had a multimember district system. The way it would always come out was that the independent would have a state rep, in the machine would elect the other state rep. The republicans have the other state rep. That is the way it worked out in our district. What happened was that the , whone candidate wound up was running for reelection, wound up losing. He was black. The machine candidate was black. Losing to Barbara Flynn currie, a white woman who is presently the assistant majority leader in the Illinois House. So, two women went to the state legislature in that election. Seat,lling out an open and one knocking out the machine guy. They called it the year of the woman. Evene both got elected though we had been competitors in the election process. Mr. Bond one thing you do when you get there is that you filed a lawsuit against the speaker . Senator braun that was five years later, but yes. 1980s the lawsuit was filed in 1982. When they went to reapportion the state legislature, my own party in illinois, we have a tradition that the parties fled pull a piece of paper out of Abraham Lincolns hat to determine who gets the right to draw the lines. Through ocrats received the favor of the hat, and the map was drawn. It absolutely a limited any hispanic you limited any hispanic absolutely eliminat ed any hispanic representation. It was just wrong. Fighting in could the legislature through the process. We lost. We were outvoted. Again, down the street this guy with dreadlocks who was a Community Activist you know the type. They have long hair with codes that are too big and books under their arm. He said this is terrible what has happened. It is just a travesty that the lines were redrawn that way. I told him that we tried. The only thing that could happen now is if someone files a lawsuit. He looked at me and said, you are a lawyer, and you aint you . Senator braun i told him i did not have a law firm, but he said they would have a battery of lawyers to help. So, i showed up at this meeting, and i knew i was in trouble. I wound up drawing the lawsuit of my own table. Lawsuit up on my own table. I called up a friend who said he got his law firm might represent it pro bono. This is another one of those moments of serendipity. Lawsuit, and ihe knew there was no way i could handle a threejudge District Court on my own. But, i filed the case. I do not think it got much notice in the newspaper if any. Then, i went down to this law firm to talk to the lawyers about what they would do to handle this reapportionment case, and they turned me down. They said it was too much political hot potato. I remember i was so crushed, and my friend was embarrassed. He thought he had worked this all out. I was on the verge of tears, because i knew the only thing i could do was go of to the courtroom and withdraw. As i was coming out of the elevator, i was going out just as toms Oliver Thomas sullivan was coming in. I had only ever met him on one other occasion. When i was handing in my resignation later to him at the u. S. Attorneys office, because i was stepping down because of my child. But he waved, and i waved back. He asked what i was doing these days, and i told him the reapportionment start. He said that sounded very interesting and to tell him send him the papers. At that time, he was a lawyer at one of the biggest law firms in chicago. Jeff coleman was his partner, his understudy, his second chair. They took the case. They thought this was the right thing to do. They took the case with the from Dick Newhouse and i that we would not just ditch the case on them. So, i worked harder on this than anything else in my life. We had the first computer the First Computer Program for reapportionment was written by this black guy who was a street person in chicago. There and didsat the math. He put together a program that could run the census numbers. We would spend nights at my house going over papers to try and work the numbers out. Spy who was our secret she was very much a part of the machine. She was called as a witness against us, but the full story was that she had sat down with whenth colored pencils night to show me the machine dynamic of it all. How they had managed to work it out. That allowed us to produce a theory about the case that not only could it win, but we made real history, because it was the first time in that the reapportionment case had been one in the north. Remember, the Voting Rights act had been limited to the southern states. So, it was extended. First, we had to make a 14th amendment case which was to say there was deliberate discrimination which this big of the house in illinois has never forgiven me for. After that decision by that threejudge court, congress acted to extend the Voting Rights act nationwide so it was not just singling out the south anymore. Rights test got easier, but it set up the directions that the courts have followed up until very recently in reapportionment cases. Thateally good news from was that we created the first hispanic district ever. It gave rise to a hispanic coming to congress. We also created additional black districts in illinois. But it did not happen again. That was the last time that the Party Apparatus went out of and stick it to the minority basis. Thatond have you go from to thinking you could run against incumbent u. S. Senator . A democrat in a democratic state. Senator braun i know. I make the joke that i kept trying to leave, but they kept pulling me back. That was the case with my political career. After the reapportionment case, everyone told me that i was going to get run on some kind of rail. That did not happen. Elected mayor, he wanted his person to be his spokesperson in springfield. Instead of getting run out, i became assistant majority leader. Was the first time at someone like me had become assistant geordie leader. So i did that during his majority leader. So i did that during his first term. Marriage had begun to flounder. I was ready to come back home, to go and practice law. And again, another person came at a pivotal time. Her name was caroline. Great,nd me through a independent activist in chicago politics. She signed me up for something called european communities business program. It is something sponsored by the eu that allows young people involved in government to travel and get a view of the european communities. So, i traveled just as my marriage was breaking up. I ended up spending several months backpacking around in europe. So, that had an impact in terms up. Y view and where i wound particularly in regards to the senate. So, i came back ready to go into private practice. Bobby had a lot to do with this. , we do not want to lose you to politics. Mr. Bond was he an alderman i that time . Senator braun yes, he was. Hampton, and one of my closest friends of that day, christina, they had to go nderground has panthers underground as panthers. Idea of having me run for countywide office. It had always been sort of an old boys network. So, i told him i would do it. Andt after i said i would, as i was having second thoughts about doing it, and then became like i had to. The dream ticket which was comprised of women and men, black, white, brown. We were the dream ticket. We represented the whole community. For so, i ran for and was elected to a countywide office. I wanted to do the best job where i was planted. So i wanted to do the best job i could in that countywide office. I reformed the office, and i think we did some good things there. And again, i was going to go into the private sector. That is when the first president bush nominated Clarence Thomas to the supreme court. Going back and reflecting on how important Thurgood Marshall had been in the one court was and was, how myourt life would not have been possible without the cases the war in court the warren court decided. Loving versus virginia, brown versus board. Everything along the way, the court was that kind of important in my own, personal life. Esoteric,ome theoretical ground. It was something very personal. A vote to myving senator. Senator simon was going to oppose the nomination. Way,dixon and, by the both senators were from the northern part of the state. It was not a north versus south kind of thing. Illinois did have that kind of divide, if you will. Paul was clear he was going to resist the thomas nomination. Alan, on the other hand, was being more corny about it mor c more coy about it. The suspicion was that he was going to support thomas. The were a group of us who were rather outraged particularly after the anita hill thing happened. So, we were opposing the thomas nomination and saying we could do Something Better for the supreme court. The senate took a break. There was a hiatus, and then the anita hill allegations were made. When that happened, that was just sold in the wound. Fuel in the fire. Ever having a facetoface conversation with senator dixon and saying to him that you cannot support this nomination. It will be a slap in the face to every woman, every black person, everybody who has supported you up until now. They will absolutely it will absolutely be contrary to our interest, and it will send a horrible signal to Young Democrats that this party does not have its come this in good working order. Standhis party does not on the high ground when it comes to issues of civil rights. I do not mean to disparage him, but he was known as al the pal. He gave me the old do not worry about it. Then, he turned around and voted for Clarence Thomas. He went away for a few days, and his phones were shut off for a few days. There were three of us who were looking at running. One who was a prominent socialite, another was a former federal judge, and me. I was the only one who had run for office before. As the organizers came together the women primarily from National Organizations and other womens groups, they got behind my candidacy. It was a thought that i did not have a snowballs chance. But i was out there and running hard. That is how i got started. Concern of ifeal i would win or lose. I was just trying to do the right thing. Mr. Bond and that really is the year of the woman. Women werean energized i this thomas nomination. I remember something about that race. I was in georgia at the time and could not follow it very closely. I knew dixon to be a kind of hack, but i thought his concession speech was the most gracious thing i have ever heard in my life. I was surprised, because i did not think it would come from him. I wrote him a little congratulatory letter which is something i would not normally do. It was a decent thing for him to do. Youtor braun i will tell what happened in that race, and people think obviously, all politics has a history to it. What happened was that dixon was challenged. I was not the only challenger. There was a rich, trial lawyer who said he would spend 5 million of his own money to beat out dixon. He got nervous. I think he was enough of a that henal politician felt more offended by the candidacy of this person who woke up one morning and decided he would be a United States senator then someone he saw come up through the ranks. Mr. Bond he would respect that. Senator braun exactly. Even during the debate, this other guy was coming on like a pitbull. I would not engage in the ad hominem attacks. To me, it was about the issues. In a funny kind of way, during the course of the debate, i did hack. Allenge him as a i challenged him on the issues, and i stayed there. Meanwhile, the other guy just kept coming at him with negative campaign after negative campaign. To him, i think that made the difference. Mr. Bond it was just so striking. We were watching on tv, and it was going back and forth between these incredible the tory us see that your incredible, victorious scenes that your campaign had recorded. It was electric in georgia to see this happening. They then switched to him, and he is trying to concede, and the people his people in the audience were very angry. E made this gracious statement it was real theater. You do not see it all the time in politics. The nickel back to something we talked about a moment ago before talking about your let me go back to something we talked about a moment ago before talking about your time in the senate. You said moving into that neighborhood the bucket of blood was a start to your. Rothers undoing why did it have an uplifting effect on you . It as anraun i saw experience from which i was supposed to learn something. I did not for a moment although, i should have been more frightened about it than i was. I did not think for a moment that it was a permanent condition for us. The reality was that my mother and father had split up, and she could not rent. She tried, but she was a single woman with four children. She had a hard time renting a place anywhere. She could not find a place that would rent to us. Later, that was one of the first, early laws i passed to stop the discrimination against families with children on the grounds that they discriminated against us renting. So, the law is national now, but at the time in illinois, anyone with more than four units in in Apartment Building could not discriminate against you because you have four kids in your family. We wound up in my grandmothers house for that reason. My mother was, at the time, determined to get back onto her feet to get a house. My father would not move out of the house. He would not leave the house that we had. It was a nasty divorce. In any event, she was determined to get back onto her feet. So, i saw it as a temporary condition number one. Number two, i saw it as something in which i could learn something. I did make some friends. I was off doing my thing. I was in high school. I worked. My first job was as a Grocery Store checker. Othern school, work, extracurriculars, i was involved. My brother, on the other hand, found his nice where the boys his age working bangers. Bangers. Gang he, himself, was not the violent type. Rather smart, and he was blessed with the kind of personality that gets along with everyone. One of those people that everyone likes. He gets along with everyone. I have never been one of those people, by the way. I wish i was. Along withgot pulled this crowd of folks who were up to no good, as they say. He got involved in gangs. He got involved in drugs. Involved in dropping out of high school. It was just downhill from there. He never went to prison and i guess that is the only good thing that came of it. But he might as well have, because his brain got so fried that by the time he was almost t point, does he had had breakdowns at that point. Take you backme over all these moments in life, this experience living in this neighborhood, and knowing you are going to get out. Going to college. Dropping out and coming back. Deciding to go to law school. At some point, i dont know if you said this to yourself, but you had to think of yourself that im a leader. I am a person whom other people listen to, and if i suggest a course of action, they are going to consider it seriously. Life, oint in your are you shaking your head no . You never havent it never happened . Senator braun i grappled with discretion with this question, because thats not how i saw myself. I saw myself as someone who set out to do a thing, whatever that thing was. For me, Public Service has real meaning. Its about being a Public Servant, about using the skills, talents, training, and exposure that i had to do good. , butsounds really corny thats how i have always seen myself. Ive seen myself as a Public Servant more than anything else. Up until recently. At the same time, when you get elected to the legislature, that means a lot of people had a choice between joe and mary and carol, and they have chosen carol, and in that process, they made you a leader. You are now member of the lower house of the illinois legislature, all of your colleagues are leaders. Why arent you a leader . Senator braun because i see my job is doing the best i can to work harder than anybody else, to get the job done, whatever that Job Description is great for the people who chose me. Mr. Bond is the word you dont feel comfortable with . Senator braun maybe. Mr. Bond i cant think of another one. But in effect, by the fact of your election, you have been anointed. In the sense that we are talking about. There must be some time when you say yourself these people chose me to speak for them, and i have to speak for them. Its why you introduce legislation to eliminate discrimination against families with children. Thats what you do. , that ever consider this these people chose you to do this, and now youve got to live up to those expectations . Senator braun absolutely. Thats the motivation. Mothers do to my the best job you can wear you here you are w planted. When i was a state legislator, i try to do the best state legislator i could do i could be. I wanted to do the best job i could where i was planted. Thing i got the United States senate. My try to be the best senator i could be. Mr. Bond the record of deeds office, its just you. You are the person. There are not these others, just you. You are in charge of all that. You talked about reform in the office, making it better. You have to think then that you have been chosen to do this, theres a mandate for you to do this, and therefore you have a responsibility to do it. How did you wait a thatnsibility weigh responsibility . Why did you tablet . Tackle it . Senator braun thats why the people voted for me. That was my mandate. I mandate wasnt to go there and be large and in charge. Theredate wasnt to go and put my name on the door and on vacation. I was chosen to do a job. My favorite story about the recorder of deeds years i hadnt had a vacation since my election. You may have even read about this. They were doing underground work in chicago. Chicago bulls chicago has tunnels. They broke through one of the tunnels, and the underside of the entire loop began to flood. It was a really big deal. Catastrophic, because the books and records were kept in the sub basements under the county building where my office was. One on the side of repairs, ive trained my people. We have fire drills in my office. In case of emergency, this is what we do. I was on my way to vacation. I was in the car headed to Ohare Airport and i get a phone call, the sub basements are flooding. They just busted through and there is water filling the basement in the bottom of the county building. . Im going and , and was working with me, said you cant go on vacation. I said what do you mean i cant go on vacation . She says theres water coming in. And i understood immediately. I told the driver turned the car around. Luggage in the trunk, went back to the office. I had to man my post. It was a command kind of situation. Mr. Bond you were in charge. You were the leader. Senator braun i had my people go get our documents, nothing got wet, we didnt lose anything, and i got everybody out of the building. Mr. Bond now you get to the u. S. Senate, and its entirely different, unique experience in american life. , butnly are you a woman you are the first black woman. I read someplace where you thought people couldnt talk about this, couldnt mention this because they are so unused discussing to discussing race. What did your colleagues say about race, about you, or did they just act like you werent black . Senator braun no. If anything, race was the 800 pound gorilla in the room, always. , some civilworn in rights leaders who had had nothing to do with my election came, showed up, taking credit for my election. Mr. Bond i know their names. Senator braun and we were all sitting on the stage, and Strom Thurmond showed up. And one of my girlfriends started to boo. The crowd of people who came were entirely to civilized to have that, they shushed her, and inryone was standing disbelief. Strom thurmond was 9000 years old, he was he made a point to common say a few words at the podium at my swearing in. I laughed about it afterwards, because it was so funny. This is the nuvasive Strom Thurmond that he was showing at the time. Race was the hundred pound gorilla in all of it. And did play a role. Until youize learn from experience, but there was some aspect of my tenure tinged andbsolutely colored by race. Expectations, there were expectations having to do with race that i didnt fully appreciate until after the fact. Mr. Bond i want to get into some questions about vision and so on, but of all the things that you did in the senate, the things people are going to remember is your clash with jesse helms. Im curious as to how you came across this little item in legislation, it had to be small and innocuous. How did you come across that, and when did you make the decision to do something about this . This is an attempt to protect the patterns of the daughters of the confederacy have on the symbol of the confederacy. And howyou see that, did you decide what to do . I was just doing my job. It came up in committee, my staffers reviewed the bill, my staffers name was jeff gibbs, a lawyer in california now. We were going over the bills that were coming up and hes rattling off and he says senator, this patent for olestra , the fat substitute, he says this has a Confederate Flag attached to it. And im going what . How did this happen . We found that the Confederate Flag patent that had been held by the united daughters of the confederacy had been renewed twice before. They had it since the 1920s. Im saying to myself what do need a patent for on a flag . You think in terms of copyright if anything, but not patent. I went to the chairman of the committee and said this part is not acceptable. Number one, this Confederate Flag doesnt belong on a bill. It doesnt belong in a patent to begin with. Second, it doesnt belong on this bill. Third, i cannot in conscience support it, and i would like your help in opposing it. Has beenhairman, who very good on issues of race ever sense started shifting in his chair. I couldnt figure out it was such a nobrainer to me. Why is this, located for you . Complicated for you . It was complicated in part because it was stroms bill. Jesse helms had nothing to do with it. It was stroms bill. The other members of the committee, since he was senior, didnt want to offend him. I had to lobby it in committee. I lobbied, i talked to all the members and got my votes lined up, and i won. We started off the bill in committee and i thought that was the end of it. Day which came back to race again. We were in committee on this confirmation hearing for just prior. , who, on aatch personal level i got along with very well, started arguing against the issue came up about freedom of choice. And he began to make the argument that roe v. Wade, the decision on choice was the legal equivalent of plessy versus ferguson. You may have heard that, but at the time, i was shocked. That was the decision of black man has no rights a white man need respect. And i was absolutely horrified he would say such a thing. Then i was nervous because im thinking im freshman on the committee, this is one of my First Supreme Court justice affirmations, its a big deal, its on television. But i just cant let it pass. And i said point of clarification, and i got into a legal argument with orrin hatch about whether or not roe v. Wade is present is plessy versus ferguson, recoverable. Trying to keep my voice modulated, because i was infuriated. And insulted. Nervous, and in the middle of this, jeff gibbs came over with a note that said jesse helms has just taken to the to revive the Confederate Flag kind. And i sat there thinking at that moment, what did i do today to deserve this . What did i do to deserve this day. I had to get up and leave hearing and go across the street, go over to the capital to take on jesse helms. Proceedings, the the first part of my argument on andfloor was dispassionate as legalistic and formalistic as i could make it. Speaker, this is already been decided by committee, it was just a legal argument. Thinking that the rules would apply, the committee already decided this. For jesse helms to come back and try and revive it was out of form, and then it shouldnt you patent in any event. Up in the looked senate voted to restore the patent and i was like this cant be. Debate,s when the real and when paul simon and joe biden and some of the others, particular joe, joe was on the committee and it known the issue. When the Committee Members first came answer to coming around to say this is why the committee decided, then the debate broadened from purely legalistic into the import, the meaning of the Confederate Flag in modernday america. How can ime blank on his name . The judge from alabama. Mr. Bond sessions . Senator braun before sessions. I will think of it in a minute. By the time he got out and said my grandfather was a general in the Confederate Army Howard Hefner how howard heflin. He said my grandmother was a general in the commit in the Confederate Army and we are proud of our concern here to chat over the symbol has no place in Society Today because it inflames passions and reminds black americans of their pain, and when he did that, i think you must have brought to the extent that we has other supported all, he was really the logjam, the emotional logjam in all that. Winning 7870, better than 70 votes. Mr. Bond in all of these things, in that fight, where you served as ambassador, which is different from being a senator or legislator, when you are in the legislature, and even before deeds, is there some kind of vision you have, that you bring to your work . You talked about doing the best where you are planted, but is the revision is there a vision that covers every thing that covers every thing you have done, or does it change . Do you have a dish a different vision now then when you were a young state legislator . Senator braun it hasnt changed in broad outlines. It changed in the specific and in the details. In the most sweeping , isalization i can make like the old gospel or blues, a song youve got to serve somebody. It might be the devil, it might be the lord, but you got to serve somebody. Found my life path as one of the challenges of being , to to serve a higher value serve in ways that give my life meaning and has weighed in on the forces for good. I used to tell my son that dr. , and to an expression tell my son depends on people making it bend towards justice. , one dont weigh in whatever endeavor we undertake, to bend it towards justice, and make a go in the direction of truth, to lead it in the direction of higher values, then it wont. Everybody has to choose. Has to choose how you want to come out. You can see your ego being wrapped up in wearing 30 carat diamond rings, or in trying to make a difference in the world in which you are fortunate enough to live in. Mr. Bond even though you resist this characterization of yourself as a leader, want to ask a question about how leaders are made. Its been suggested they are made one of three ways. Causedone, great people great events. More number two, movements make leaders. Or number three, the confluence of unpredictable events creates leaders who are appropriate for the times. Does any of those fit you . Senator braun i think the third one. Confluence of unpredictable events. When you consider that as a woman who is also black, if it toe not for a lot of effort open Civil Society up in a lot of different ways, not of my story would have been possible. Story would not have been possible varied in brown versus board of education had made it possible for me to get a quality education. As a woman, would not have been able to law school if the times had changed to allow for that kind of openness. Wanted put whatever she first, as a poor person, could not of gotten to the United States senate, in the scheme of things. If the times had not gotten to the point where people said we have enough billionaires and millionaires, lets open this up a little bit. Senator braun mr. Bond is it likely of there have not risen this outrage over the nomination of Clarence Thomas, that you might not have been in the senate . Senator braun i would not run. It wasnt a function of personal ambition on my part. Onet looking to be grow up i want to be a senator. That was not in my thinking. Rather, the circumstances came together to make that the logical decision. Mr. Bond some of the commentary we read about you says part of isr legitimacy as a leader grounded in your ability to persuade people to follow your vision, or your ability to articulate the agenda of a movement. In the case we just discussed, the confederate symbol, surely it is your rhetoric that draws people to change their minds about something they already voted on three you made them change her mind. Is that so about you . Hadtor braun well, i have thats what legislator does. The difference between being a legislator, either of the state level or in the United States senate, and being record of deeds, or ambassador mr. Bond or candidate for president. Senator braun candidate for president is more like being a legislator. , youhe executive position basically tell people what you want to have them do. Do this, do that, this is my idea. I shared a little bit when i was recording of deeds. I have a blueribbon committee that came together and made recommendations for change. I had a committee or no committee, thats the way it would be. The legislative process is very different. It requires persuasion and compromise. I have seen over and over and things we collected about your writing, the necessity to make consensus. Thats an important part of your leadership style. Senator braun it has to be. Without consensus, without having people agree on moving in a direction together, everybody is frustrated or wasted their times. You have to talk to people in ways they can hear. A lot of times, people want the same things. Everybody at the end of the day wants the same thing. How they see their interest is where the division starts to come in. Youou are legislator and want to get somebody to your point of view, what you want to do is go and talk to them about your vision in words they can understand that here. I will tell you a quick story from my state legislator. Another one of my favorite stories. Getting a chance to put my stories on tape with you. When i was in the state legislature, the poor people in illinois had not received a cost increase over 10 years. Hadguy who had stepped down been trying to get a costofliving increase for welfare recipients for 10 years and had always failed read with inflation, weve gone through almost 20 inflation, really hard times. For the poorest of the poor in illinois. So i got down there and filed a bill calling for costofliving increase. Nobody bothered to tell me that the way you pass legislation was that he went to the leadership and leadership told you what they were going to pass, and let you carry a bill for them, or you say you got this idea and they say yes or no. I just thought i had to go and convince my colleagues to vote for it. There were 177 people in the Illinois House under the old system. , going backade up to my u. S. Attorney training, i have folders for every legislator that said how many poor people in your district, how many age blind and disabled, and what the situation was in their district. I went and talked to 159 of them. I wish i had the check sheet. One of the people i talked to was a diamond what reporters, right wing that case. He has spent time in jail for having tapped so the phones of the leftist activists on the university of illinois campus. He was that kind out there. I didnt know this, ive done my homework on the district but not as much of organization have on the individual legislator. And try tosat down talk to him about why he should support this, because of the poor people in his district. That,s i cant vote for the people in my district are buying lobsters with food stamps and buying cadillac cars on welfare. Haved look at this, you these many blind people in your district. These many children. I made the whole argument. Out and the bill came the votes were tallied, i had one. I had won. Oh my goodness, this is going to be on the governors desk. So this is great news. And one of my colleagues, a republican, who had worked the republican side came over and we were celebrating, we were so happy. And he came over with his cane and said i didnt vote for your bill. I just couldnt see my way clear to help those welfare cheats in my district take any more taxpayer money. He says i almost did because you everecond nicest lady ive met, the first one has been working for us for years. I tell this story to say that even for him, there was a point of reference, set of interests, that made truth to him. His other prejudices may have overcome that, but my job as i saw it was to make the case to him, and to make the case to enough others. In thed when i was georgian house, we have built to vote appropriation for autistic children, and i asked the guy sitting next to me, what about this, and he says you probably should vote for it. The vote came up, i voted for it, he voted against it. Too manye have artistic children in georgia now. Senator braun [laughter] mr. Bond i asked about your vision a moment ago, do you have a general philosophy that guides you through life . That may be different from the vision, Leadership Vision and philosophy . For me, then philosophy is back to admit is advice. I just try to do the best job where i can, where implanted. We are not guaranteed tomorrow, and every day, good, bad, or indifferent i have my bad days like everybody else. But every day we have to find something that you can be proud of, that you want to celebrate. And thats what i strive to do. Every day. If you do it on a day by day basis, it really is in the small steps. Its in how you treat the individual that you run into. How you treat somebody who is bigger than you, how you treat somebody who is ostensibly smaller than you. Thats where the measure of a person is taken. Issues of character and honor, it sounds corny, but thats what motivates me. Mr. Bond how does raise consciousness affect your race . Race consciousness affect your race . Do you seeeone yourself as someone who advances issues of race, or society, or both, is there a distinction . Is there such a thing as someone who transcends race . Senator braun i think that we all have to get to a point of transcending race. The real issue in my mind is the liberation of the human spirit. In whatever package it comes in. Whether its a black package or female package or an asian package or hispanic package, a poor package, a disabled package , a gay package, a straight package for the packaging is less important than what it is that individual has to contribute. Attacking the genius of that is really what this republic is supposed to be about. Thats what makes us different. Thats what the begin of light comes from. The notion that every individual is a reflection of god, and that the goal of society is to let those reflections have full play in the society as a whole. Maybe my life, im born into a body. Im a black woman. Im real clear about that. Islso know that race localized. How race is perceived as a local issue, really. In the scheme of things. Gender is more universal as an issue than races. Reallyh of those things speak to the willingness of a society to open itself up to the contributions that people who might be female have to make, that people who might be black cap to make. And celebrating what that is. I dont want to have to be black and not act that way. Submergeant to have to my cultural background. I dont want to have to put 43rd in berkeley in the closet. To be accepted by somebody. I want to be able to say this is the sum total of my experiences, and when put that on the table, experiences,these you will be able to make a better set of decisions. I want to for the sum total of being a girl, wearing pink and purple, not ashamed to talk about my diet. I want to put that as much a part of me is the intellectual side, or as the side that can read a balance sheet. I want to be able to bring all of that to bear on the contribution i have to make. Whether its in the Public Sector with a private citizen. Mr. Bond talk about differences, do you think you have a different leadership style when you are dealing with groups that are all black or mixedrace, or predominantly white . Are you different . Senator braun no. Me, that is like the old oh what a tangled web we weave . For me, its easier to be the same. Whether im talking to a group of Church Ladies on the south side of chicago, or farmers in iowa, i will use the same language. I may talk about different issues. Church ladies may have been anderned about loan rates genetically modified corn. They do not care about that. I will speak to their issues. But in terms of the words i use and how i comport myself, as always to bond isnt there likely be an occasion where you Say Something in the Church Ladies say amen, the farmers dont they anything . Does that create a different response . Senator braun that actually touches on what i see is one of my own weaknesses. I have and am working on having a better sense of how others see me. Again, because i say the same thing to the Church Ladies antenna hasrs, my to belittle better. In terms of what it is a here and here the words. Let me give you an example. This gets back to the senate days and back to welfare again. Was also a friend and mentor for me. Was very nice to me when i was in the senate. Opposed tovery clintons welfare reform. A variety of reasons, not the least of which was, as he lit, it was destroying the social safety net that the country had had since the 1930s. Opposed tovehemently the president s welfare reform. It was just wrong, in my opinion. I still say its wrong. I told him i thought its wrong. Historical vignettes of what the country was like when the states ran welfare. The orphan trains out of new york and all the rest. Every aspect of the arguments i was able to put together. It wasnt until midway through the debates that occurred to me that i may as well and talking into the toilet, as the Senate Chamber on this issue. Because what my colleagues heard was a black woman standing up saying wheres mine . Whatever words coming out, what they perceived was here is this black female, the prototypical welfare mother standing up here saying why are you taking away my benefits, as opposed to heres a senator arguing in behalf of poor children throughout the United States and what kind of nation we are, how we define ourselves as a country , as Community Around the issue of poverty. It hurt me. Are real, fundamental level, that realization her greatly. Because i realized then that no matter what i said, if i have been white and male making the same argument, it wouldve resonated differently. If i have been white and female making the same argument, it wouldve resonated differently. Mr. Bond is it then that you think it may be impossible for you to get away from race, because of how you look, and how i see you have others see you, the race is always at the forefront of perception, and that perception, in turn, colors what you say and what i hear . Senator braun race is the hundred pound gorilla in the room. It defines the context of the conversation, and thats just reality. As we change the reality, and that reality has been changing the great victory my mind of the Civil Rights Movement was not just integration, the great victory of it was that it made racism unpopular. Public racism. There are people who privately will say what they say, they will tell the racist jokes and everything, but the largest of Society Frowns on that conduct now. Thats very different than 100 years ago. Its very different than what was going on at the turn of the last century. Us toreat victory allows get in the next level, where that will be. I think it is probably continue ,ne is probably a continuum the fact that we are in a different place on race now that we were this country 50 years ago in brown versus board of education was decided. But were not where we can get to. Mr. Bond thats a great segue to one of the last questions. William allen writes thinking in terms of race or gender, until we learn once again to use the language of American Freedom in an appropriate way that embraces all of us, were going to continue to harm this country. I guess what he is asking is is there a danger of continued divisiveness if we focus on the concept of black leadership as opposed to leadership . Senator braun it sounds good, but he misses the fact that lets you knowledge that the guerrilla is in the room, you cant clean it. You can rearrange the furniture. That withouts patronizing, without segregating, without diminishing any one groups contributions, our americanness will hopefully get to the point where color and gender and Sexual Orientation and ethnicity will be equally celebrated, without being demeaned. But we havent gotten there yet. A candidve not yet had conversation about race in this country that i believe is necessary to liberated. You can get to the point that you want to get to pretending that there are not differences in problems and pain. And all, opportunity wrapped up in the issue of our history. To ignore it is to ignore reality. My view is, without pandering to pain you want to do that either. You dont want to keep picking at a scab. The rather say i filled out what was 12, i got this big scar on my leg. To deal with the scar, im going d, e, but is not going to stop it from walking. Is that what sounded from being a holder able person. Joking that i didnt know if Thomas Jefferson walked past, there are a couple of things i like to talk to you about. Here was a brilliant vision, a vision that was very much grounded in morality. It spoke to the liberation of the human spirit, and spoke to people being able to contribute to Community Based on the best of what they had to give. Flying in the face of the contradictions of his slaveholding, his begetting children by his mistress, which for all intents and purposes is ice location. She could not of said no. Not to mention how women in his life were relegated. The women werent much better but ey were chattel, they were not chattel, but not too far off from it. How can you talk about liberating the human spirit when you have is mass killing on . This mess going on . You have to knowledge what has been, and try to move in the direction of your vision. The vision is one of unity around issues of liberty and justice and truth. And so you get there, to ignore the reality is to ignore is to shortchange or opportunity to get there. In past years, women used to a certain kind of leadership, and even in recent years, that kind of leadership has changed. Its not the Martin Luther king standard altogether anymore. What about the future . Other blaming new highs of that society is going to demand we have . Senator braun i dont have a crystal ball. Is an interesting question because i was joking yesterday with a friend and i said we reach the point in history where both George Orwell and Marshall Mcluhan look like profits. The nature of so many of the things that characterize Civil Society changed. Lincoln they set Abraham Lincoln could not get elected today because he was too tall, lanky, and ugly. Eat telegenice to as we get different kind of language. Not understand celebrity. You have to be able to set a different demand. That change in the society, the Information Technologies in life is and by definition going to change leadership and change the people who the public will embrace as leaders. What that will be, i dont know. Have you any idea how we as a whole society, how can we foster, create, and nurture leaders for the future that we are not doing now . Senator braun education, education, education, education. The thing that frightens me the most about where we are as American Society is what has happened with education. Particularly the availability of Education Opportunities from the earliest years to all children. The whole idea of quality universal Public Education is very much on the bubble, very much challenge, very much at risk now. Thats a whole set of conversations we can talk forever on that. As much to the point, going beyond that, even for higher education, young people now having to spend so much money to afford higher education, exchanging the nature of who can access it. Are almost back to what Thomas Jefferson had, which is really got to go to college and everybody else just worked. And that you have the role of the media, its not a negative way, but media in a generic larger sense. Whole, the community as a get the vast majority of its information from something that sees value in dumbing down the conversation. When you are having conversations with people in a democratic system that comes on voters making a judgment, with people who dont even have the basic information with which to analyze developments in their with, what you set up respect to Marshall Mcluhan and George Orwell when you set up this is a society that is very volatile, very much amenable to demagoguery. And folks just getting up and making a pretty speech and rallying of the passions and getting people go and send them over a cliff. Was the i thought that last question, but i have to ask this. Are you Optimistic Pessimistic about the future . Senator braun ive always optimistic. I have to be. The pessimism is too depressing. You get immobilized by. My optimism comes because i know enough young people my son, by way of example. I have no idea where matt gets his news from. Hes a computer geek. We talked and he will Say Something that will be some specific bit of information that goes right to the heart of what it is were talking about. I say how did you know that . Up she reads news sources on his computers ive never heard of erie heard of. Blogs or something. Mr. Bond its agerelated. Senator braun the point is here are young people who do have the vision, actually can sort the wheat from the chaff, understandable when its bs versus they understand that, they can see it. Long as they are, i think the future will be in good hands. Mr. Bond on that optimistic note, thank you for being with us. Senator braun thank you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2017] you are watching American History tv. Join the conversation, like us on facebook at cspan history. Recently, American History tv was at the american historical Associations Annual meeting in denver, colorado. With professors, authors, and graduate students about their research. This interview is about 15 minutes. Rebecca hunt is associate professor at the university of colorado denver here to talk messenger and your particular area of expertise is an early medicine and denver and pioneering. More so on hospitals in america