i think it's gonna come out when republicans the big lie it's the throttle fraud. >> that's robber in connecticut. >> cal thomas marks his first appearance on this network back in 1984 over the subsequent 38 years, he has been back some 67 times, joins us this morning after day two of these january six committee hearings. mr. thomas, sir, are you watching? do you think the committee members are making their case so far? >> john, it's always a pleasure to be on c-span. i think they're making their case from their perspective. one of the things that troubles me is that there is no cross-examination. there are no lawyers or members of the committee who are challenging anything that is being said. the script has been written, if you look at the large teleprompter, the big television site that is sitting in front of the committee, all of the members are reading statements that have been written either by them or for them. as we know, the former president of abc news was called in to choreographed this entire affair. if the goal is to convince people who were trump voters and supporters that he was wrong about the outcome of the election, which i think he was, then there ought to be at least some people on the other side to cross examine some of these witnesses. there aren't. the first soundbite used by liz cheney on thursday night at the opening primetime session, left out an important part of trump 's urging of the people to go down to the capital. he said, demonstrate peacefully and patriotically. that was cut from the sound by. so, i think there is a pre determined conclusion from this committee. what bothers me are statements made yesterday by adam schiff and zoe loeffler, who both said that they believe there is enough evidence to refer criminal charges to the justice department. i'm writing in my column on thursday that this could set a very dangerous precedent. i am not sure other than the hard-core trumpers, how many americans would like to see a former president prosecuted, possibly convicted, and put in prison. i don't think that would be good for the country. it would set a standard for republicans who might want to do the same thing to a democratic president further widening the gulf that is already widened in this country. i think that if this goes to the justice department, then president biden could embrace with gerald ford did for richard nixon and issue a pardon. perhaps, -- if trump guarantee never to run for office again. this kind of stuff just continues to poison the atmosphere at a time when people are affected by gas prices, food prices, inflation, and what looks like a recession just around the corner. >> i wonder if you caught that interesting exchange yesterday at the justice department after the hearing in which reporters turned to garland and said are you watching? he acknowledged, yes, he would be watching. that those who are working on the january six cases are watching these hearings as well. >> well, i think the initial ratings were 20 million on thursday night. i doubt if they're that high for the one yesterday. but 20 million in a nation of over 300 million is still relatively small. again, the goal of the committee, supposedly, is to convince people that trump was in denial about the last election. and he tried to change the results illegally. if you're going to make that point, that i think that the public deserves to believe that the hearings are fair and balanced. i don't see how a lot of trump supporters are going to view it that way. >> what are your feelings about the events of that day? do you think the former president bears any responsibility for what eventually happened up here? >> people are responsible for their own actions. we hear a lot about gun violence, guns are violent, people are violent. someone can use the gun for good, to defend themselves, target practice, hunting, whatever. the same gun could be used for evil, to shoot up a school, or to rob a store. so, i think we've taken a lot of the individual responsibility and accountability, blaming other forces, other people for our own actions. yes, i think trump ramped up a lot of the doubts and hatred and anger of these people. but whether he should be accountable, this is gonna be very difficult, i think, to prove, if it ever goes to court, that words alone incited a riot. you know, the old line about crime fire in a crowded theater, there had been attacks on the capitol before, as the guy with the heritage foundation wrote, a really good piece starting in 1954 with the puerto rican fanatic shooting up the house of representatives. one other thing i would like to know, that is not coming out of this hearing, president trump said that he offered 20,000 national guardsmen to nancy pelosi and muriel bows are, but that they turned him down. subsequently, it appeared that there might be another threat on the capitol, speaker pelosi ordered fencing put up around the capitol to protect it. fences up now at the supreme court in anticipation of the decision by the court on roe v. wade. i think there are ways to protect, i think there are ways to defend. but i think more could've been done to protect the capital from this incursion by a violent mob. >> syndicated columnist, cal thomas with us in the segment of the washington journal. easy place to find all his columns. cal thomas.com, you can follow him on twitter at cal thomas. easy enough. republicans can call it two or two -- if you want to chat with them, democrats to a 2748 8000, independents to a 2748 8002. as folks are calling in, mr. thomas, you mentioned the abortion case, the mississippi abortion case before the supreme court. take us through what you think, how you think this plays out here sometime in the next 2 to 3 weeks. what it means for that debate in this country going forward. >> well, i think it's important, john, to look at some people who supported the outcome of roe v. wade. and who still impose the legal reasoning. i think this was at the heart of the samuel alito memo. you had people like lawrence tribe of harvard, a noted liberal, who argued against the way that the case was decided. you'll recall, perhaps you will still recall, that harry blackmon, he wrote the majority opinion for roe, he found a quote, penumbra in the 14th amendment, the right to privacy, that included the right of a woman with no input from the men, by the, way the father, the husband, the boyfriend, or whatever. gave her complete autonomy as to what to do with the unborn child. so, the legal reasoning is what is under attack here. i think they're gonna be demonstrations, there already are. it's interesting that there are two federal laws, which prohibit the, any attempts to influence a federal judge. one of them even says that you can't demonstrate outside of the supreme court. yet, attorney general garland is not enforcing these laws. his failure to do that, it's to provoke people to show up outside the homes of brink of an awe and barren who has young children, seven children. i think this is a terrible thing. i would say the same thing if pro-lifers were demonstrating outside of the homes of liberal justices. we have to have confidence, at least to some level, you know institutions or they're going to be undermined and they will not be, but if it's a general buffer. >> we get to some of the other key debates in place on capitol hill. but plenty of cause for you sir, we'll get to them. tommy in virginia, line for democrats. you're up first in this segment. >> good morning -- >> good morning. >> i am a democrat and my question to you is, my understanding is that the republicans were invited to participate in this committee, but they all refused, mccarthy et cetera. so how can you say that it's not a fair hearing when they turned down the opportunity to participate? >> well, the way it went was that mccarthy wanted to select members from his party, his wing, and nancy pelosi, speaker of the house, turned him down and appointed to anti trumpers, his signal of illinois, who is retiring, and then jamie of wyoming, who is way behind in the polls in her reelection bid, because she knew that they would take the same line as the democrats on the committee. so this controversy about this. but republicans ought to be able to appoint to a committee who they want. and i think that that would have a increased the credibility of whatever outcome there was, even if there was a majority democratic vote to do whatever they wanted to do. >> do you think in 9/11 style commission to investigate this would have been the right way to pursue this? and you do you think republicans in the senate were wrong to filibuster that? because that effort was tried, and it did not succeed. >> while you know, we had a warren commission after the assassination of john f. kennedy. we had a 9/11 commission. i think it's important for the public to be able to believe the conclusions that come out of the congress on these and other issues. and when you have people from the outside who don't have a vested political interest or financial interest or a specific outcome in mind, and to -- weigh the evidence and cross examine witnesses, i think then the credibility of the conclusions are greatly enhanced. but when you have all of the members who clearly are against donald trump and what he did, i like the call early who, i think this would be my position, trump did a lot of great things, we had lower gas prices, low inflation. he did the covid rollout brilliantly. but his narcissistic personality is more daytime in. so i would agree with that color. but i, i'm all for the outsiders and fewer of the insiders. because i think it boosts confidence in the outcome. >> annabelle, new york. this is tim, a republican. good morning. >> good morning, guys. mr. thomas, i was a longtime member of the twitter universe. and to be honest with you, they've just got untenable there. and i couldn't, i couldn't remain. let's put it that way. so i went to truth social and was, yeah, i was given a lot of good views and everything like that. and that brought up something about these, you know, the proceedings that are going on. and i got, i got suspended. it was almost immediate. it was scary how fast it was. and i'm trying to understand what i did wrong. i mean, i did brought up a couple of points about how these were republicans in donald trump's, you know, circle that were, you, know that were testifying. and on truth social. well, this is supposed to be the place for free speech that i thought i found, you know, a respite in. can you explain to me what's going on here, sir? i mean, i don't think i like this at all. >> well, yes, i've read reports about that. and i think this is the stuff of censorship and propaganda. you sense of things that don't ratify your own point of view, your world view, and you allow in only those things that support that worldview. true social, i mean, you know, what is truth, pawn just pile as pilot asked. truth, veritas, is the motto of harvard. and at the latest comment with they had a room of liberal commitment speakers at the law school and at the regular school, and -- in 1978, the new york times and even some of the harvard faculty denounced his speech, which was a critic of the law. so i'm all for the free speech. i'm with the late battle, one of my favorite people, who said that the answer to speech you don't like is not less speech, it's more speech. and that's what i would just. >> what's your approach to being a syndicated columnist in today's world? -- but is your touchstone for how ago you go about your -- ? >> i'm worried about the future. janet, which owns a lot of papers in the country, it just announced that it was doing away with most of its opinion pieces for the silly reason that it said we don't want to think people want to think. well i don't people tell people what to think i tell him what i think and they could make up their own rights. i read a lot of liberal columnists. one of my favorites is going down, a friend, of the new york times. and i don't use this -- of course i don't agree with you all the time. a readout their ideas from different perspectives for two reasons. for one, it helps we understand what people of a different point of view believe and number two it reinforces my own beliefs in many occasions. and so how do i get my ideas? well you know it's the daily news cycle in washington alone. you never run out of material. what's going on in our public schools, what's going on in our culture. i think there's just a wealth of material out there to write about. i -- and as you said earlier, for 38 years and it's a great privilege to be in the newspapers. i mean i read columnists growing up, people like joseph kraft and george will is the only one that's been added longer than i have. robert novak, scotty rested in the new york times. these were some of my favorite mentors i would say along with the people i worked with as a copy boy, as a kid at nbc news in washington. but those days and those kinds of journalism are rapidly disappearing and one of the reasons i think is that younger people are no longer engaged with the newspapers. they get the stuff off of social media and they go to websites that basically reinforce their own opinion. that's not growth, that's reinforcement did we used to do a better job of understanding what other people believe and when did that change? >> well i think watergate and vietnam were the two major factors that contributed to the cynicism in this country about journalism you, know, the media, the polls -- university gallup, many other polls for many years have shown that the media is now on the level of congress and it is in disapproval. and i think that's too bad. you know, the press was it's the only entity mentioned in the bill of rights and even the the press at that time in the 18 century was very hostile to even people like george washington and thomas jefferson. the founders understood that a free press was a key to a free society. and just as you can't get in shape by watching an exercise video, you have to go to the gym and work out yourself, you can't get your mind in shape by just reading things or watching things, seeing a particular that work whether it's msnbc or fox news for cnn that reinforce your point of view. that's not growth. so i think skepticism is a good thing. but cynicism is a very bad thing and i fear that we have now embraced cynicism to our national detriment. >> michel in connecticut, don for independence. good morning. >> good morning, how are you? >> doing well. jan with cal thomas. >> hi. i just want to say, kyle thomas, i think you're a very well-rounded person. and i'm the same. i get my sources from different news. so i'm aware what's going on on this side, that site, and i try to piece things together for myself and come up with the answer i really appreciate them putting this hearing on but i don't think it's really fair. i think it's one-sided. they should have equal people on both sides, they should have a majority and minority leader up there. i just think it's very unfair and i think they're making a huge, huge mistake doing it this way. it's not letting the country settled down. and i think we're going to be in a lot of trouble. >> yeah. well, yeah, i heard some critics since yesterday. i think it was from zoe lofgren, member of the panel, congresswoman, saying that trump had raised money off of this, off of this hearing. well so is adam schiff. and so are some of the others every time you see something going on in washington one side or the other sense out of fundraising that are. this is one of several reasons why i believe in term limits. get these people out of washington for they become corrupted. the founders never under believed that politics should be a full-time job. back up until really the early 1900s, people came from businesses and farms and other professions, the legal profession, to come to washington and do public service for emitted time then they could go home to real jobs. but now they come and stay for 30, 40 years, basically, until they drop almost dead almost, and get totally out of touch and it's a primary interest is not in promoting the general welfare, it's promoting their own welfare. not everybody of course. there's some decent service in both parties. but the trend is toward a permanent sea in office where people never have to make a balance sheet, they never have to pay anything on their own. they never have to produce a product and if they retire or if they are defeated they get a pension that lasts the rest of their life. now, you wouldn't want to jump like that? we make it too easy for them to stay. we ought to make it hard to stay. >> to florida. this is tag, line for democrats. good morning. >> yes sir kyle. >> jackie with us. >> i'd like to answer your question. here i'd like to know why it is when you -- the committee and the republicans that -- come on. you put it in a way that the democrats didn't get republicans on there and that is not the case. they were offered -- two of the people that they wanted to put on their one said it was a tourist day in the other said nothing would happen. and now you -- have your life, and you wanted people on there to be honest or would you -- anyhow i, think he would say no. >> well again, it's what the public thinks in the end. and the purpose of these hearings ought to convey the image that they are fair to those people who supported duller trump and who supported his policies. and i'm just concerned about the outcome. you're just playing to your basis in this case the anti trumpers, look i said earlier, if you are listening, that i think an outside commission would have been better. i think it would have had more credibility than just having elected officials up their. but for whatever reasons the republicans rejected that and they contributed to what they have now so i don't think they could really have any credibility -- that budget. >> two rows out of apex, north carolina. nine for republicans. good morning. >> good morning. thank you for taking my call. yes, i am watching the kangaroo court about january 6th. but keep this in mind. our election was clearly rigged to start the new world order for every country has to be on board, say they want bankers. as for adam schiff and jamie raskin, they both do before they ever walked up to that podium that hillary clinton paid for the fake dossier. they colluded with a lie. the guy playing biden right now is clearly a droplet. >> our, who is the office. any thoughts? >> watson, i think one of the things that needs to happen during credibility to the elected governors post covid, when of course all of these mail in ballots and drop boxes were allowed, which helped four but the conspiracy theories that continue in the minds of some people. somebody said. i i think, georgia with the law that was passed down that, we made it easier to vote and hard to cheat. so i'm always been one who with rare exceptions which showed up on election day at a polling place and cast my ballot with illegal drivers license and an i.d.. i think if we got back to that as the norm, and for people who? are either handicapped, sick, unable, out of town or whatever, then you make an exception for them. but the norm ought to be showing up and voting in person? with a proper i.d.. i think that would diminish a lot of these conspiracy theories and put more confidence in the election outcome. >> what are your thoughts on the states and, there are several, mostly out west, who do all mail in balloting. do they need to rethink that? >> well, i think so. you know, we just had this pennsylvania supreme court ruling which allowed, in contravention to the law in pennsylvania as i understand it, ballots to be counted that were not signed or not signed properly. there are reasons these laws are passed and the reasons are to give confidence to voters that the outcome, even of somebody who didn't vote for, if your person lost the election, is illegitimate, and you can go ahead and, you know, ratify the outcome of the election, if you're gonna have these laws in place that requires signatures, valid signatures, and the dating of the ballot, and then the court says, well, okay, we don't need to do that at all, then i think that undermines the confidence of the election outcome. there are a lot of things that can be done to increase the credibility so that even people on the losing side say, okay, well, we'll fight better the next time. if you believe the odds are stacked against you, that the system is stacked against you, that somehow there is one world government conspiracy going on, these kinds of easy ways to vote and easy ways to cheat will only underscore those beliefs. >> we have about 15 minutes left with cal thomas, syndicated columnist. if you haven't read his columns, most of them, all of them available at cal thomas.com. you can follow him on twitter at cal thomas. finn is in pasadena, maryland, line for democrats. you're up next. >> hey, john, good morning. mr. thomas. i just wanted to say, i need to speak slowly here, the other side is all the people that worked for the former president who are being interviewed by the committee. that's the other side. it's not the democrats saying what happened, it's the actual people that worked inside the campaign, that worked right next to the man that told them that he lost. he lost the election. but instead, he did something else. so the other side is the people that worked with him. like, i don't understand what you're talking about like there is no other people. that is the other side, mr. thomas. those are the people, okay? secondly, just for one second, where did you grow up? where are these circles that people are talking about going in voting? when does that happen? when in schools did you ever hear, oh, let's start this thing, let's go vote and she. what is this thing about sheeting, all these laws are talking about are only put in place to make one type of voter feel comfortable. can we just be honest about that? >> well, to answer the easiest question. first, i was born in washington, d.c.. i couldn't help it, my mother is that at the time. i grew up there, went to school there, graduated from an american university, and started out and radio when i was 16 years old, i joined nbc news as a copy boy where i got my first instructions and journalism at the age of 18. so that takes part of the personal thing. you're right about some of the other side. those like william barr, the former eternal -- attorney general and mike pence, who, you know, somebody said he should be hanged and trump's on record as saying that that might be a good idea. look, i did not endorse the personality. this is not my kind of politics. i think we ought to have rigorous debate, i love what brett did there yesterday at the kennedy place in massachusetts with a real old-fashioned debate between senators bernie sanders and senator lindsey graham. instead of these dog and pony show is with a dozen candidates on the stage and getting one minute to answer, 30 seconds to rebuttal. these aren't real debates at all. i think we need to get back to some basics. mail in ballots in the rest, this was during covid, this is a unique period. when i am arguing for is, in order to increase the credibility of our elections, we need to reduce the perception that many people have that, you know, people are going into nursing homes, getting these ballots, voting for people, all these other things. they need to be reduced or eliminated so that the credibility of the election outcome, whether it's democrat or republican or independent that winds, is restored. it's not my kind of politics. it's not the kind of politics i grew up with. it has always been a rough and tumble, but it's never been quite like this in my memory. >> silver spring, maryland, this is victor, republican. good morning. >> good morning. hi, cal. i enjoy listening to you with larry o'connor. abe looking forward to hearing you tomorrow. >> thank you, i will be out of the country tomorrow. you have to wait until next week. >> okay. anyhow, i'm legally blind. and it turns out that my father had a similar personality to donald trump. i'm one of those are all left babies. i weighed a pound and a half when i was born. my father insisted that i learn to live in the world, i better start doing stuff for myself, i had to do my chores like my cited friends did, i went to public school most of my life, the last three years i went to the maryland school for the blind. he told me, starting at age ten, that you're gonna be working on your 21. when i did turn 21, my rehab counselor in d.c. tried to put me in a sheltered workshop. i told him i was having none of that. i want a regular job. i ended up working for the national library service for the blind for 44 years. i made out okay. on the other hand, i have seen going people whose parents over protected them and can't do a blasted thing for themselves. i guess, i like donald trump because he'll push for what he wants. >> well, that is a remarkable personal story. i am sure the audience is greatly blessed and encouraged by it. we used to tell more of those stories. when i was growing up, i believed an inspiration followed by motivation, followed by preparation, improves life. now we flip that into envy, greed, and entitlement. somebody makes more, we heard this from bernie sanders yesterday in the debate in massachusetts, the millionaires, the billionaires. the amount of money is not fixed. the only limited by your own desires. and, i think, you know, people like you are h four men just roll model for everybody. not just blind people, but anyone else with or without a handicap. we used to encourage these kinds of things. we encourage success, we penalize the -- that we subsidize -- and we penalized excess. we're finding we get less success and more slothfulness. i just really appreciate your story. i hope you've written about it. it would be a tremendous books to read. i'll buy the first copy. >> we have about ten minutes left. i want to get your thoughts on this bipartisan framework on a gun deal. we don't have the full text of the legislation. but, the majority leader, chuck schumer, promising to put that bill on the floor as soon as possible. president biden saying that he'll sign it, even though he doesn't think it goes far enough. >> i think there are some reasonable things that can be done on gun sales. i've written about this. i understand the second amendment periods to believe that any kind of compromise or concession opens the door for eventually seizing guns. like -- said he wanted to do for biden. biden had said that he was gonna be as point man on gun control. we have limits on other things, on purchasing alcoholic beverages, on driving cars, on things that can be dangerous to yourself or to other people. i don't think that in the 18 year old aunt to be able to go in on the same day, by a weapon that is kind of you -- in uvalde, texas. i think that is a reasonable thing. i think a background check is very important. if someone had interviewed his schoolmates, if someone had interviewed his parents, if someone had looked at his social media web pages, they would have seen that this guy was a potential bomb ready to go off. so i think there are some things that can be done, consistent with protection of the second amendment. reasonable, that, you know, you can't prove a negative. you can't say, well, because of the slide and go shoot up a school. i think it would give more confidence to people that something is being done to at least deter, if not prevent these horrible things that have gone on for so many years. i think we need to hard in the schools, as they say. >> why is america so unique in the frequency of mass shootings? >> well, i think it comes down to the gun culture. i would say that some of the hollywood people, the people that produce entertainment, they're guilty of promoting this. every night, i turn on with the three broadcast networks for an entertainment show that isn't comedy. let's say, it's action adventure, people are shutting each other all the time. it's more graphic than it's ever been. you see blood, you see it on the floor, you see people faking dying in our news coverage of course. you see this. people twisted minds who think they are never going to amount to anything in life, they say, this is my one chance to become famous and to make something out of my life, so they may kill other people. i think that some of the hollywood left, the people that produce our so-called entertainment are guilty for contributing to the poisoning in our culture that leads to so many of these shootings. >> would bridge, virginia, this is roosevelt, independent. good morning. >> hello, good morning. >> go ahead. you and with kyle thomas. go ahead. >> wait. can you hear me? >> go ahead and roosevelt. >> all right. i want to say that the last caller really had, you know trump is pushing for what he wants. he wants to vote in an election that he lost clean. we are saying that he marched had people march up and right at the capitol to try to get himself to win. and i just want, i don't understand way to take up to you. guys are sitting up here, i'm not taking money from anybody. i write my opinions in the column. i'm not beholding anybody. i'm not part of any political organization. i don't send money to political candidates. so, you know, my opinions are my own, as they say. >> out of maryland, this is dorothy, democrat. good morning. >> good morning. you know, this is sort of, it's not funny, it's funny to listen to you all talk. this is a moment in history, this will be written history. this is gonna be visual history with the words coming out of the people's mouths. those people -- what are you gonna cross-examination? what is a cross examination to be? what are they gonna say? nancy pelosi is not in charge of the national guard, trump sent in the national guard just like he did with the national riots. >> no, he can't. >> hold on, hold on, hold on. let me finish. and then you can answer this. because, number one, there is more republican party. there is not. it's something else now. i want to talk about the guns and january 6th. people don't understand that the reason why, not republican party, whatever party it is, gun control, a ban on those assault weapons, is not because they want them -- they want them because they're gonna -- they need them to -- please don't cut me off. >> dorothy, you bring up a lot, i want to give cal a fair chance to respond. >> the law says that the president can't order in the national guard without the acquiescence of elected officials. whether be a governor, we saw this during the flooding and the hurricane in new orleans and louisiana, several years ago. where the governor of louisiana refused i -- think it was george w. bush -- an offer of national guardsmen to come in. so that just happens to be the law. and he couldn't sense troops without the acquiescence of d.c. mayor, muriel balls are, and the speaker, nancy pelosi and. that's just a fact. i already made the case about my position on gun control and, i think there is a republican party. i'm in, we go through these cycles. the radicals on the left, the so-called progressive, have pretty much taken of the democratic party. and you know the trump forces have pretty much taken over the republican party but i think that's about to change - we. have a very important permitted in south carolina where two candidates who are opposed by trump, wonderful voted to impeach him, and the other who said that he was responsible for the january 6th riot, trump has endorsed so much of people. interestingly, but that race so, he's contributed less than $60,000 according to roll call to -- that is the indulged. i'm not sure out of all that money has raised, how serious he is about the candidates's support. >> you bring up -- republican running for reelection there, nancy mace. we're going to be talking more about primary day it's. primary day in several states, but a lot of ice on south carolina. going to have that conversation as part of our open phones coming up in about five minutes or so. but a few more calls for you, sir. this is jim in new york a, republican. good morning. >> yeah. am i on? >> yes sir,. >> kyle thomas, you've got a pen. i want you to write this down, please. i was sam had some town hall meetings for / five / 22, five / ten / 22. sit at meetings -- with the last of the because in this town. -- that paper is no longer carrying what's real going on around you. the places in illegal immigration mess. there's so many cars all over the place. the park on the sidewalks. and we're doing further to park on a roof there are so many people here. i don't know who's paid for them to have all these babies i, don't know where the bodies come from since biden got it. it was like that and day. >> so thomas on, the issue of -- >> has made sure the top co-show host chris plans like to say, the greatest power of the media is the part to ignore the stories that don't cover. and only fox, today great credit has covered this illegal immigration thing in great detail. and our laws are not being supported, i mean, congress, under both republicans and democrats, have passed immigration laws in the past. but they are not being enforced. and these members of congress take an oath to uphold the laws. so while they are so preoccupied right now with donald trump and what he did and said during the last election process and since, the doing absolutely nothing at all to fix the border problem. we now have hordes of haitians about to come in in a major caravan. thousands upon thousands upon thousands are being sent out across the country, supposedly told to show up for an immigration hearing to, three, four, five years down the line, having babies in this country have become automatic u.s. citizens, and therefore make it much more difficult for their parents to be deported. no nation can sustain itself illicit controls its borders. it's not about discrimination, it's not about losing white supremacy or majority, it's about controlling the borders. uncontrolled immigration without assimilation has been a disaster for countries that have experienced it in the past. >> out of the sooner state, this is barbara on our line for independence. good morning. >> hi. i have three points. please let me finish this time. just let, i'll be quick. first on the borders, we'll [laughs] did fox news report the three times that trump has been sued and lost in court and won while he was president for hiring illegals who hired illegals, didn't pay them, and they sued him, and finally got through. they finally won. oh, we don't talk about that on c-span, we've never had anything about that or is -- university, we don't talk about that. that's just normal for republicans. and trump put 13.5 trillion. we went from 20 -- 20,000 in that to 33 with that boys garbage and not one word about that. biden puts 1.2 on there, oh! he rode everything! oh, that's why this is happening, that's why cast is up, that's why, 13.5 trillion didn't hurt anything. >> mr. thomas? >> well, i'm not sure she made her third point. but i think i got it. the major response to that is that trump began to build a wall. and when he broke a wall the signal went out that illegal immigrants were not going to be tolerated anymore. we have legal immigration system, we have a system that deals with people who are being harmed or threatened with death in their own countries that we can let in. but just to have an open point it doesn't work. and i think just to say that you, know, trump hard if you are illegals. well other people have as well. yeah, it's inconsistent. but we're not talking about that. we're talking about the hundreds of thousands who are pouring over our border. the key fact is that gas prices were less, far less under trump, that we were energy independent. we are not energy independent. now biden's got to go to saudi arabia. he claims he's not going to beg for, but while switching go after calling saudi arabia a pariah state? so, i think that again, as the previous caller said, trump's policies for, the most part, we're very, very good. but it's his narcissistic personality that did him in and is doing him in. people don't like. that i mean, ronald reagan was great at self deprecation. and george w. bush was as well. and i think that people really appreciate that, knowing that you are president by the will of the people, and you are not some kind of oligarch or dictator. >> fighting out on the front end of that visit to the middle east, july 13th through 16th, you mentioned the travel to saudi arabia. on the front, the president will be visiting israel, and according to a statement for the white house, to reinforce the united states ironclad commitment to israel's security and prosperity. i want what are your thoughts on how this administration is doing when it comes to navigating middle east politics? >> president biden, of course, when he was vice president under barack obama, he sent a team over to israel to undermine the reelection of -- at that time the prime minister of israel. i don't how much credibility there is on the security of israel, especially when biden and many democrats, they want israel to give it more land and create a palestinian state. the palestinian side, and several muslim nations, most notably, iran, have declared that they want to illuminate the jewish state. i think you should take them at their word. they believe they have a divine mandate to do that. they are open about it. in iran and some of the other parts of the middle east, this is another one of donald trump's great accomplishments, you have nations that did not have diplomatic relations since israel is recreated in its ancient land in 1948. now, doing business, trade, and transportation, back and forth. it's an amazing thing. nobody else has done that. trump gets virtually no credit for it. >> last call, steve in sheridan, illinois, line for democrats. go ahead. >> good morning, thank you for the top this morning. you mentioned something about the national guard troops to the capital on the day of january 6th. i was wondering what your feeling was as to the prior incident with the president during the george floyd protest, where the national guard were deployed to the white house. at that point, mr. esper, said that the country was a battleground and general milley came out with the national guard, it was quite a forceful event there. first of all, i don't know who is able to order those national guard troops to that location that day. but the fact that the esper is calling america the battle space, would that not make people in protection of capital, i mean, the january 6th to be reluctant to call in national guard troops because president trump was saying shoot them in the legs, they were being extremely aggressive with the crowd. so, sense the president and esper, general milley, are wanting to start a civil war, wouldn't pelosi, other people, the washington mayor be reluctant to order national guard troops? take your point, give cale thomas the final minute here. >> you have a lot to unpack there. i don't believe that general milley wanted to launch a civil war. one of the things about these demonstrations that the media never asks is, who are these people? don't they have jobs? who paid for them to come to washington? who paid for their signs? are they getting some kind of stipend for being there? they show up at all of these things, on buses, they fly into washington, who is paying for all of that? is it george -- , is other left-wingers of a type who support these district attorneys around the country that offer lower no bail, they let criminals out of prison and never sudden there in the first place? there's a lot of questions that need to be ask. this is when i met earlier. i get back to the idea of the other side, where people cross examine some of thes