Democracy, users manual for every american. By david pepper, former chair of the Ohio Democratic party. Mr. Pepper, welcome back to the program, thanks for the conversation. Today Homeland Security officials testify on the expiration of title 42, which allowed migrants to be turned away at the u. S. Mexico border, watch live before the subcommittee on border security, and enforcement, at two pm eastern on cspan 3, cspan now, on our free mobile video, app or online at cspan. Org. Brandon job is the joining us from arizona to talk about issues along the southern border, mr. Judd, thanks for your time. , because we what the page, or one correction, im no longer an, agent i retired about a month ago. When thank you for the clarification, one more point of clarification, i know youre in, arizona but could you describe where you are and why . Yes, so where im, located i am in tucson, in the tucson arizona sector. Right now im pretty, fairly close to the border, im not right on the, border but i am very close to the border right now. Could you explain a little, bit weve heard a lot of scenarios that were supposed to, happen stemming the end of title 42. Give us your sense of whats going on since then. When we were out on the border, the day that title 42 was supposed to, and they were more than 170,000 people that were camped out ready to cross the border at mass. What we saw, and what we witnessed with the people that were crossing the, border as they were being, interviewed was that they, the mexican military, and the cartel work meter in the number of people. They recognize that it was going to be very very bad for business, if they wouldve crossed the border like it was expected so now what weve seen is this metering start to taper off, start to see the numbers go back, up if you look at the numbers right now the numbers are still four times higher than what they should be. If you look back at the obama administration, secretary jay johnson, he said it was a very bad day, right now, were in between 3 to 4000 people per. Day were still on 3 to 4 times higher than what we should be. When we are the high, it creates gaps in our coverage. We dont have the resources, in the field that are necessary. Because we have too many resources of doing administrative duties. We dont have the kind of resources in the, field that creates a gap in our coverage, when we have gaps in our coverage thats when we see the higher value. Such as fentanyl, criminal aliens, aliens from special interest countries. Thats when those people or those products are brought illegally. Weve already apprehended 100 people on the terrorist watchlist. Smashing any previous record. This is still a very very serious issue. And if we dont get it out of control, its my fear its going to be americans at suffer for it. Homeland security puts out numbers, ill show the numbers in a second. Can you describe what the encounter . Is an encounter is someone that crosses the border, eagle legally, we take them into custody. We perform an arrest on those officials. We take them to the Border Control. Stationed fingerprint them see if they have a criminal record in the United States. The problem is, thats all we can check, we check whats here in United States, or an interpol. We cannot check whether criminal records are in their home countries. So to those, numbers for april, according to teach us they reported over 211, 000, encounters down from ohio, last in february, of 250,000. Do you point back to 2020, in april that year, 17,000 encounters. What is the best way to understand the increase of numbers . Everything is about risk, reward, being released into United States. That means there is no concepts commences violating our laws. When you look at even under title, 42 we were only expelling about but have people believe we are releasing about 60 . When you have a 16 chance, of being released into United States, youre gonna cross the border illegally. We everything is baseball, not all crime is predicated on that, when that reward in the risk is so, small youre not going to be prosecuted for a crime. Youre not gonna be, you when you know all thats gonna happen is that your sent back across the, border just to try. Again youre gonna continue to try and come. We have to have consequences for violations of law. When there arent any consequences, you can expect the violations to go. Up as far as the Border Patrol agents like yourself, whats the work, whats the data late look like now, post fort title 42 . Its still very much the same, as what it was pretitle 42. Because we dont have the resources to deal with the number of people crossing the borders. Its not just the numbers that were taking into custody, not just the numbers were, apprehending its just the gotaway numbers. We continue to have approximately 1000, people who crossed the border illegally and are able to evade apprehension. Theyre the ones that are running for, must the once we have to chase. When that happens, it takes our resources off the border. We can no longer properly control the, border you cant go after criminal cartels, you cant go after the you can go after their profits. If we could go after their, profits if we could shut down the cartels operations, we keep the borders safe. We just cant do that right. Now you talked about as far as numbers youre seeing, right now several factors in place, including some of those processing areas outside of the United States, in other countries. Have theyve been of some benefit, as far as reducing the, load or are they not coming to the border . Right, now were just not going to be able to tell that because its so, new anytime that you have rhetoric, youre going to choose to see the flow. Even president , trump president , obama absent flows based on political rhetoric. Based upon the ups and foes of politics United States. Right, now its just too early to, see yes we have seen a dramatic drop from our high but those highs are already created under this administration we just never saw and we never would have dreamed that we wouldve ever gone to the numbers we currently have. Were still 3 to 4 times higher than what we should be in any normal administration its going to be time before we ever actually can say whether or not these Regional Processing Centers are going to be doing us any good right now i can tell you were still 3 to 4 times higher than what we should be. In your mind what to change in order to reduce those numbers then . You have to have consequences our laws say if you are in the United States illegally you shall be removed. That is not happening right. Now people are not being removed for being in the country illegally there crossing the border illegally, theyre being released into United States, they are not being removed, until we actually start applying the law, properly, until we start removing people, theyre going to continue to come, were going to talk about this as much as we, want we can talk about political instability, we can talk about gang violence, we can talk about economic, circumstances, all of that has been in these countries for as long as i have been, for my 25 year career. As a Border Control. Agent nothing is changes for those route, causes that were talking about. The main change it is, happening is our policies here in the United States. We have started releasing in mass, people that cross our borders, illegally. That is never happened before, we started doing, that thats when we started seeing number shoot. Up we have to properly enforce the, laws and when we do that, we can expect the numbers to go back down. Ran and john are gust until 10 00 if you are asking questions about his experience on the southern border and his experience also as president of the National Border control council, called alliance 202 7488000 for democrats, 202 7488001 for republicans and independents 202 7488003 if you wanna text us. If you want to see those numbers, drop in the way that you described in the what has to be, done what you have to have, is at least 80 controlling the border. Right now were about 50 of resources, actively controlling the. Border at any given, day that, time depending on how many people cross just two days ago we had 1200 applicants, in one sector. That was the del rio, sector anytime that that happens now youre pulling about 70 of your resources, out of the field, off of the border, you only have about 30 thats actively controlling. We cannot effectively control the, border if you only have 50 to 30 of your resources that are actively patrolling. Viewers, if you also live in a border, state you can choose that line to call us but 202 7488003. We saw the president sent troops down to the border, to help with background, philosophy has that help alleviate the workload . It has not if you look at the, mission they were sent, down they are not able to come in contact with anyone who crosses the border illegally, all of our administrative duties that we have to, do whether its processing, hospital, watch transport, detention security, all of that requires us to come in contact with individuals that are in the country illegally. If these National Guardsmen cannot do that, then they are not buffering up our resources to actually control the border. Were still doing all of the administrative duties that we otherwise would have done. I will, say where they do come in, and where they help, in a great deal is in the medical stream when we have to screen all of the individuals for medical services. That triage process, they are helping greatly there im gonna be grateful for any resource that we can possibly get. But what we have to have, we have to have resources that are going to free up our agents to actually control the border right now the National Guard is not doing that,. A little bit about your work with the Border Control pencil describes funded. By the National Board control council is the union that represents all Border Control agents its funded by the agents themselves if you look at the federal Government Union wide im sorry federal government wide, unions are about 45 organized we, are 90 90 organized. 90 of Border Control agents voluntarily pay due to the National Border control council so we can properly represent them. Lets hear from betty, that hes an illinois, democrats, line brandon judd, betty good morning, you are on go ahead. Good morning, im so happy to hear this gentleman on this morning. Im 84 years old, and i had given up on the country. Im glad this gentleman is here. Remember the people, that dont want democracy, did they have a lot . I have grandchildren, and i do not like the way this country is going so thank you sir for being on and, god bless you. Thats that he in illinois. I appreciate, that yes i do have children and grandchildren myself i do want a very strong democracy here in the United States for those children to be able to pass on so they can also be raised in the greatest country that i believe exists in the world. What makes us such a great country, is the rule of law, the rule of law is what gives us opportunities. It doesnt restrict our freedoms, it grants our freedoms. When we get away from the rule of law. Thats when we start seeing the restrictions, thats when you start seeing the chaos. Thats all we, want Law Enforcement nationwide. All we want to be able to do is protect and serve the American People there are a few bad apples there we have to deal with those bad apples but 99 of all Law Enforcement all they want to do is protect and serve the American People so we do have those freedoms so we can continue to live in the greatest country in the world. Mario and texas border state, youre next. Good morning yall, this is mario, im calling to say i have information, mr. Job i appreciate you trying to work with us here at texas in arizona and border states but i have to let you know, there is a problem with our immigration system. And its with how we treat these people that come into our country that are seeking an opportunity, when their countries of origin have been unjustly destroyed from our own imperial actions its gross our trying to change these peoples lives, and how we try to destroy them, and mentally manipulate the people, as they want to seek a better opportunity in having another life in some countries that get destroyed by our own imperialism, whether its el salvador, venezuela or anything like that, thank you very much. I agree with legal immigration, im all about legal immigration. The way we treat people across our borders, illegally, is extremely humane. When we take individuals, and to cassidy, we treat them the best that we possibly. Can but we also have to enforce our laws when people flee for economic reasons that is not under our laws that is not proper asylum i have no idea whether or not imperialism has destroyed other countries. I dont know if theres any evidence to prove that that has actually happened. I would like to deal actual facts that we can see right now. We have a settled law, that we are supposed to enforce. We are not enforcing those set of laws right now. Again, if someone enters our country illegally, our laws say they shall be removed. We are not doing that right. Now we are not following our laws. I can tell, you those people across our borders illegally, we treat them as humanely as we possibly can. Given the circumstance that we have. They violated our law, we have to take them into custody. We have to arrest them. We have to take them back to our Border Control stations. We must fingerprint, then we must find out if they have criminal records, here in the United States. That is a very humane process that we go through. From North Carolina republican, lying mike go ahead. Good morning mr. Judd, good to be here, we dont watch fox anymore, due to tucker carlson, but the immigration goes all the way down to the mexican government. The mexican president is corrupt. The president before him was corrupt. When biden went down, there but he thanked biden for not building one more into the wall. No one is talking about how much bird in illegal immigration system has on the american taxpayer. I mean its almost half a trillion dollars, one of the thing, Congress Needs to do a segment of the 14th amendment that says if a baby is born, and United States it becomes an american citizen that revolves all the way around these people immigrants that come in some of their court dates are for five years, and theyre having babies over here and its when its time to deport them, then they the democrats bring up this child separation stuff. If the mother and father come into this country illegally, and they have a baby here, that baby is illegal to them to because their merit parents are legal. Okay thank you, mike i got your point. We have to look at other, countries and there is no doubt that there is rampant corruption in a lot of these countries we are dealing with people from 170 different countries, now its interesting, that we dont deal with people from say germany. From england, from france. We dont deal with people from countries that do have a stable governments that dont have as much rampant corruption adds existing in the other countries. Unfortunately, that is not a lawful reason to enter our country illegally thats not a lawful reason to claim asylum either. We have very specific rules that allow you to claim asylum i will make one point by law, and again i believe in the laws i absolutely one hunted percent believe in the laws, i believe the law should be reinforced by our laws if someone comes into our country even if theyre here legally if they do have a child here in the country that child now becomes a u. S. Citizen. Those are our laws. We have to operate within our laws. But we cannot do that, if we operate within our laws, we had different policies, programs and operations, we could shut down the border till tomorrow, and we could go after the criminal cartels, and we could save american lives from all of the fentanyl, poisonings that are happening here in United States. Mr. , did you get the sense that the administration has said theyve been trying to work with other countries in order to get them involved and stop the cartel stop the migration issue, do you get a sense of these other countries doing their part . Not at, all not at all. In fact theres no reason for them to do their part, if you look at the amount of money that they have in their economies, lets just look at, talking about the mexican cartels alone. From illegal immigration, this is not drug, trade illegal immigration, they are generating a minimum of 13 billion dollars, that money goes right back into the economy, why would they want to shut that down . It doesnt make any sense, again you have to look at what are the benefits, crimes about risk reward, crimes about benefits. What are the benefits . And that is a huge amount of money, that goes back into the economy. Then on top of it, drug trade that is facilitated because of illegal immigration. We have to ask ourselves why what other countries want to stop this, when theres so much benefit to them. I dont believe they do want to stop this. But we also have to look at, what is it that we can control, afghanistan. We have many examples, we cant control what happens outside of our own borders we cant control what other governments do, nor should we be able to control what other governments, to what we can control is whats happening right here in the United States, and all we have to have right here in the United States, its proper enforcement policy. If we had that, we could stop this illegal immigration, thats currently happening right now. Several organizations, including organizations, certainly when they talk about fentanyl, they say fentanyl is primarily being bought into the legal port of entry do you see any disagreement with that, . I do absolutely disagree with, that all we have to, do we just have to go back to the pandemic era. The ports of entry, were obsessively shutdown, all but essential traffic. That means we were only dealing with about a third of the normal traffic through the ports of entry. Yet seizures during the pandemic, era went down greatly with the amount of fentanyl that was on the streets shot up, exponentially. That clearly shows it wasnt going through the port the problem is, if you do not stop that low thats going to United States, you never know its coming from. We see more narcotics. At the port of entry, common sense dictates thats going to happen. We can go through every single vehicle, at the port of entry, between the ports of entry the thousand people that get away every single day that i mentioned, we dont know what theyre bringing in. We have no idea whats in their backpacks. What i can tell you is, we have stopped many people with pounds, and, pounds of fentanyl in their backpack, that cross between the points of entry. So we know its coming between the ports of entry, the problem, is when we cannot apprehend those people, we haveno idea what theyre bringing in. You saw the republicans in the house passed a soup mr. Judge a month to things that. Starting construction of the border Wall Technology for the border imposing antonin restrictions and reinstate family detention, and requiring importance to check legal status,. If it were signed, put it to an effective . Good it. Would those walls are invaluable. All used to Border Patrol station that were used to work a. Arizona. Pre border wall, we were apprehending 100, 000, people every single year. This was in a small 50 mile stretch of border. 100,000 people is what we were apprehending. After the wall got built, that number dropped to 10,000 people. You just dont have people crossing, in mass numbers, where border walls. Are so infrastructure, acts absolutely, it works. Its been proven, time and time again. There are other policies absolutely better necessary. If we did everify, if we had, if we were able to go after employers that hired people that were in the country illegally, against our laws. That would have an effect, if there was no jobs for people that are in the country illegally. Then people are going to come. People come to United States because of all of the benefits that exist here. Whether those are social, benefits whether those are poor work benefits. Thats where theyre coming. Here theyre coming, here because we have a very very good system, whereas in their country they do not. I realize, there are countries are not the greatest countries in the world. But that is not a reason to enter the United States illegally. It is not a reason that allows them, that would give them asylum if they actually show up to their court dates, and plead their case before a judge. Lets hear from david long island independent line. Good morning, i just wanna thank you very very much for all of your work. And all your time to help people like me out. By preventing this flood the tsunami of people. Flooding into the country and i appreciate it and i think the problem is that its a losing battle because the fact is ill give you an example of inflation situation raising Interest Rates one of the primary things to look at, job numbers, jobs one of the things weve done is jack wells sent all of our jobs overseas so we dont have to pay american top dollar the jobs you cant send overseas you fled the country with illegal vulnerable very exploitable people desperate and will work for anything. Forget a pension forget medical benefits any of that, you dont have to pay anyone anything, like you would have to do like you would pay me an american what im saying is, this is one hunted percent class warfare. Thank you so much for your help one of the things that frustrates me the most is the number of people that are crossing the borders illegally that are going into modern day slavery, when you look at the indentured servitude thats happening if you look if youre coming from, china youre paying anywhere between 30 to 50,000 to be smuggled into the United States i dont know how many people out there that are watching this program right now have 30 to 50,000 laying around, these people go into debt to come into the United States. Thats when they van gogh into unity in servitor. When you look at the exploited people and you look at how the cartels exploiting those individuals. Whether they go into sweatshops, whether they go into the sex industry. They are being forced into this work, to pay these debts off that is modern day slavery. And it should stop, and its insane to think its monstrous to think that we currently have that here in the United States the greatest country in the world we could have absolutely no slavery here in the United States yet we do have that because of the indentured servitude that these people are being forced into to pay off their smuggling debts its absolutely monstrous that that is happening roland in maryland democrat line. Thank you for taking my call. [inaudible] blame the democrats for everything. Oh moment didnt do anything. What policy did biden enact thats made an increase this increase started in trump it started when trump was there has to be some fundamental underground going on the republicans dont want to come up with a solution nothing they just said build a wall. There was no wall during so wide so tell me the solution, other than democrats, and republicans. Okay thats role in there. There are very Simple Solutions ill take criticism, i have no problem with criticism. But to say im saying, politics is absolutely, very incorrect. All im doing is giving you facts. Thats what im talking about today id like to deal and facts, i like to deal an actual evidence it is very very true that under the Trump Administration there were issues that we face because there was releases that were taken place but those releases and. Those ended. We drop to 45 year lows it is very simple the solution is enforce the laws that are on the books if someone crosses the border illegally, they do not have a right to be released into the United States. Those individuals should either be held into, custody pending an asylum, or deportation proceeding, or they should have to wait just like what other countries around the world do. Look at germany, look at france, look at italy, look at spain. What they do, if you want to claim asylum, in their country you must wait in another country, pending that asylum. If we did the same in the United States which is what we were doing and we dropped illegal immigration to 45year lows that is the solution it is right there it has been proven time and time again. Those are the solutions that have been offered up this administration has lofted those. Normally how they block them but they took those solutions away thats will cause illegal immigration to skyrocket. The proof is all there but Inspector General put out a staffing report, about customs. But they determined that we determine those both those organizations stopping resources as unsustainable cpp an ice work loads significantly due to factors beyond but control. Such as increasing Border Control. Ultimately what does that mean for the people you represent . That means we just dont have the resources to actually control the border. What i will tell you pedro, if we went back to normal loads if you will. If you go back to a normal administration, we apprehended a normal not a people. We do have the resources. I do not want to burden the taxpayer. I dont want more resources, im not asking congress to give us more infrastructure, technology personnel. I want policy which doesnt cost the american tax paradigm. If we had the proper policy again its been proven time and time again. We cant do the job, with the resources that we have, but we have to be able to go after cartels, we have to drop illegal immigration, to normal levels. If we drop it to normal levels, we have those, resources and the american taxpayer does not have to fit the bill. Of marys in texas, mary around with a gust brand engine, of the National Border control council, go ahead. Mr. Judd i want you to give a message to the Border Patrol the ones that protect our border and do the best they can i understand, and i want the American People to understand, this is not a political Border Patrol, this is a citizen of america, making it a political statement. All i wanted to ask them, the American People that oh humanitarian, how many do you want to come into this county country. How many are going to take into your town . And your state . If you think, were only getting a few, what happens if we end up with another 42 million . Are you going to pay for taking care of them . Are you going to take care of 100 million . What is the cost . I do want you to tell the border, control keep up their morale, ill tell you what, some of the citizens are behind them. I know its not political, and this is being put on the citizens that are making a political, thank you. When you look at the Border Control agents, i can assure you of, is that they will continue to go out and do the best job they possibly can, they put that uniform on day in day out to protect the American People. They will continue to do that. It does frustrate, me and it does upset me, when we are talking about a very serious issue, using a set of facts, and then people to call us racist. That happens all the time. We were equated by one politician as running concentration camps, equating us to not see germany. When all were doing is enforcing the laws and running the facilities that were built under president obama. It does become very frustrating when were talking about. This is the only thing that can come up, is racist. When were not, i dont believe that i said one thing here today that would be even remotely considered racist. What were talking, about is were talking about the rule of law. Why is the rule of law importance . And how we can continue with the rule of law to keep this country the greatest country in the world. I believe we are, i want to continue being the greatest country in the. World but we cant do that if we are not properly enforcing the rule of law. I know youre in arizona mr. Judge, but in texas, the governor there is starting his own operation, operation lone star, in order to deal with issues along the border, what do you think about states doing this and how do they work side by side with those but in and federal force meant to work on border issues . Im very grateful to Governor Abbott for the resources he has given on the border, when you look at the number of things we have, if it wasnt for texas, those would get away exponentially, they do a great job in forcing state laws and while theyre enforcing state laws if they come across people that are in the country illegally they then take them into custody and turn them over to immigration officers such as Border Control agents, theyve been, theyre doing a great job, a Great Service in order to keep the number of gotaways as low as they possibly can. And given the resources of Border Control. Operation lone star has been a huge success. In that. Aspects. If it were to go away tomorrow, those gotaways would go up exponentially. From new york democrats line this is paul hello paul. The agency has a budget to follow and im just wondering the expense of the wall is so great im just wondering if the money would be better spent but hiring more agents you know. Heat seeking drones et cetera et cetera. Thats my question. Right now when you look again and again. Ive said this before i will take any Technology Resource that they will give us. But the problem is if you dont have the proper policy or the proper mixture if you have the proper policy numbers go down. Right now you could give us as many drones as you want those drones would only count the number of people that are getting away that are crossing the border illegally and are able to be evade apprehension. What a wall does. A wall reduces the amount of people thinking they can cross that one given. Time without a, wall you can easily cross several hundred people, within a matter of, seconds with the wall you can only cross 2 to 3 people in that same time that you can get 2 to 300 people across our borders. Thats why walls are so effective, it allows us to dictate where illegal border crossings take place. And if we can dictate where those border crossings take, flights we could be much more effective. We can also be much more effective in the amount of drugs flowing into United States, we would be able to detect a great deal more if we have the proper infrastructure. I will tell you that wall has already been paid, for that money has already been allocated. And its just sitting there. But there are other things we could do with money such as different technology. But i will tell, you it all starts with policy. If we have the proper policy, we can do what is necessary with what we have right now. Mr. Todd, our employer is doing enough to stop this problem . You know, i could talk, about that i dont deal with employer sanctions, i really would rather not get into. That if part of the draw is labor . But its one of the draws you talk about, does it have a little bit to play . They do have a role to play, i just dont know to what extent, that would be something that i, the agency Homeland Security investigations, that would be something that they deal with, yes they obviously play a part i just dont know how large that part is why. Chris is in, california border, state for, august god cristian. Hi good morning. But i want to circle back on asylum laws in italy, that is actually the reverse of what you had said. When you seek asylum in italy, youre given a permit for temporary residency, and you cannot leave. So that would be more similar to if you came from mexico, and you tried to go on a vacation to mexico, and United States told you actually know, you have to stay in the United States. So, circling back to all of the statements about having when you practice something explicitly opposite of the, truth with ideal in fact, i go, well what does this guy actually say thats true and whats false. Because everything you said if everything you said is true, i havent checked the asylum laws and spain, or the other countries you said, that was the first when i checked. So i guess my question is, and then you said, you treat them humanely, which is so not true. You have children developing disgusting rashes, and everything at the border. So i guess my question is, like, where are these facts coming from . Thank you have a really great morning . So when dhs announced their new rule, the National Border control council, we submitted our public comments. You can go online, you can find, that its a public comment. Any person has the right to submit comments, anytime the government changes or rule, or employments a rule, i have a set of attorneys, i have seven attorneys that work with the national Border Patrol council, we review those asylum laws, what are developing countries doing . What are, if you will, already developed countries doing . And what we found is that universally, that is what is happening including, i believe italy. I will go back and specifically check that. But we did, i did have my attorneys to the research on that, we did in fact submit our public comments. And that was based upon the attorney research that we did. When you talk about children developing, rashes in our detention facilities. I would ask you to provide that evidence. For us. You are listening to people that are not giving you, those are specific talking points, but give us the actual evidence. But all or, are our facilities one hunted percent free of any disease . No, neither are a lot of places. What i, say we treat those people as humanely as we possibly can. But, again if we want to use political rhetoric, thats perfectly fine as well. We started, off you didnt have numbers or at least the information to effectively determine whats going on, as people come in, people go through, when do you sense that youre going to have that kind of information . How much longer . Based upon whether not we see the numbers, going up thats gonna tell us if these processing facilities are actually working, if theyre being run the way it was expected, right now were seeing the numbers go right back up, yesterday we had 3400 right at 3400 apprehensions those numbers continue to go up so were gonna have to wait a couple months thats normally what happens. It takes several months to go and evaluate exactly whats going on, i will be the first to say, if those Processing Centers worked, i will give dhs, i will give the Administration Credit for that. I will not give them credit when were still 3 to 4 times higher, than what a normal administration, is if we continue to mass release people across our borders illegally. This is brand job, if you want to buy the website for National Border control council it is