, author ofk kempe divorcing the dictator americas bungled affair with noriega. , i want you toe talk about america, not noriega, is its own worst enemy. What do you mean . The Foreign Policy is it made. It just happens. That is what i am saying. The u. S. Started this relationship without thinking of the consequences were. When wed from noriega started the relationship in 1960. Cash just taken over in cuba. What we wanted were small pieces of information. Mightllow students who have communist tendencies. Noriega knew what he wanted out of the relationship, the prestige of being americas man. He wanted counterintelligence training and immigration and demolition training. Him, and he we gave would not have been successful. The United States created the problem, it later had to correct through invasion of 25,000 men. Have you ever met general noriega . October of 1988. I think this is the december invasion. I went up to him, introduced myself to him. It was very interesting. He wasnt like a dictator. He seemed more shy and withdrawn. Stairsthese penetrating stare. He had a damp handshake. I told him i was doing a book. He promised to give me several long interviews, which he never delivered on. He did make available to me a lot of his high School Friends, military academy friends. That was helpful. Through them i got into his circle. I think that is one of the things that sets the book apart. Not only do i have a lot about the opposition, i got inside of his circle and found out more about what made him tick. Backere is a note in the of each chapter, you have special notes that explain whats behind the chapter. When i ask you about this gathering the details of noriega life presented a challenge. Interviews with family members and childhood friends who spoke honestly. Those willing to speak on the record are quoted. Right. Proud ofs not his childhood. The dictator that preceded him was proud of his upbringing. Mother, she died when he was five years old. She was a domestic servant for his father, who never accepted him until he was 12 years old. He did not grow up as the poorest person, but he was pulled. He was adopted by a godmother, a kind godmother. He had a mean streak upbringing obviously, but he had a godmother who loved him and dressed him well, groomed him neatly. I met a School Friend who was his best friend when noriega was age seven years old. These are the stories i thought enriched my understanding. What drew you together . He said a shared introversion. Neither of us likes to talk much. We could sit quietly in the back of the room. He said even then, he wasnt a games player. He was a serious man and like to watch other people. Already you can see shades of the intelligence that would come. I think more in terms of being an intelligence agent than a dictator. That is what he did longest and best. He was never very good as a dictator. He didnt have an ideology. Time youas the first ever went to panama . Ini went to panama 19851986. Covering stories, going to the seven commander, visiting sources. That is when i got interested. At that time you had a stolen election. The u. S. Endorsed, even knowing it was stolen. A good and honest man, but in , there was a cable that outlined how the election was stolen. I went at that time and became intrigued already with the country. But, the book and this work on the book started in 1988. You speak spanish . Enough to get by here and there. Sameanama, it is not the that it is in other latin american countries. The history of panama is so tied into the United States that it is the only latin American Country in the entire region where one kenexa do a good job of reporting without a Fluent Knowledge of spanish. Youths thank the managing editor of the wall street to humoror his ability your curious passion for panama. Perverse obsession. First was a Diplomatic Correspondent to the wall street journal, you look to learn how american foreignpolicy is made or not made. I was attracted to the panama book for two reasons. I thought this was an excellent model for which one can study how bureaucracies work and dont work. How american foreignpolicy is made. That there are many forces at work and it is not national will but bureaucratic momentum. It is individual ambitions. It is compromised. Good the panel story as a model to show that. You have this fascinating character of noriega. I thought it was a good way of telling a serious policy story in a novelistic way to bring in a general reader. What was this book supposed to be published . I finished the book in december. We were going to go through a long. Of editing. Riod i heard word that a source of mine called me in said you better end your ski holiday and get to panama. This was a good source. I prepared to move myself to panama. When is this . I arrived two days after the invasion, coming up the road from costa rica in a school bus. We rented a school bus. We figured it was less likely a school bus would be fired upon. I use that opportunity to write an extra two chapters. Everything was finished in december. I was very lucky. One of my better friends during , i had a of reporting great deal of time talking to him. It was a bit of a godsend for my book. I was able to get a good feel for what my what life was like for noriega. What . The ambassador to panama. He was on the run for four days after the invasion. It turned out that was where he sought refuge. I have a copy of a book that you have seen. This is our man and panama. I want to ask whether this has helped or hurt you, a book on panama at the same time. When you read the reviews you are reviewed together. It helps and herds. I think it is a good book. It doesnt cover has brought a territory. I think it is a good thing for society. For my own book i wish my book were the only one people had to buy. Said, it focuses more interest in the subject more broadly. It brings more people into the bookstore asking for a book about noriega. I think obviously in overall sales, perhaps i am heard. I dont think society is heard through it. Both books are credible and decent. Did you know he was riding his . I did. Did you cross paths . Here and there. Recordrked from public and also, the history that i have in my book, he goes into as well. In the last two years he hasnt been much of panama. I did not run across him there. He does not go so much into the Current Events of the last two years as i do. Something reviews is that , they may have tried to put it out too fast because of the invasion. You say it was moved to press. That isnt the case at all. Im quite happy the last two chapters, which should have been hastily written chapters they didnt tell you much more than what were in the newspapers, i was able to get a hold of intelligence cables, including a debriefing of a man who had traveled with noriega in his last four days who gave new details of where noriega went, how he got there, the fact he was in a subcompact running from one house to another. He stayed in a locker room of this lavish health club. This was not a dictator. This does not shape will borrow. This was a man running a Large Corporation called the Panama Defense forces that control so many aspects of society. In the end he really didnt have the stuff to lead a fight for his position. He was interested in saving his own skin. Somenk these chapters are of the strongest in the book because i was able to come up with this intelligence. What you say to critics that say you focus too much on the , hisies of noriega prostitutes,his his interest in mistresses. There is a lot in the book. Whenever you come out with a great deal of new information, people who dont have that are going to criticize it or question it. I think anyone who reads the book closely will see i have been careful about what i put in the book. I was about to write a chapter called rumors. Notes i have titles of notes i couldnt put the book because i couldnt cooperate them. One of the sources i spent time closeste of noriegas associates. I spent hours and hours with him. He is a source that one has to treat gingerly. Hes a clever man. He also has a political agenda. Because great everything you get from a man like that. He says george bush instructed noriega to call fidel castro to warn of the invasion. That is not in my book because i could incorporate that. He testified before a grand jury mediationpated in a of the dispute between the drug cartel and noriega. Cartel had rated a drug set up in 1984. Against an agreement noriega had struck. They paid a great deal of money for protection of the laboratory. He said he media the dispute. That is a key point in the indictment. I have that story in some detail. The reason is i was able to cooperate it. This, theok like hardest i was not coming up with the information. It was coming up with the cooperation. Hours were spent the readers not even notice trying to make sure i didnt overstep. When i write the man was bisexual, i have talked to people who were intimately involved with noriega in one way or another. I was able to confirm that to my satisfaction. That thed his habits way he lived . I think noriega was a man who liked control. He was not motivated by ideology. He was motivated to how our but control is the key. One sees that in everything he did. His sexual relationships, there was a matter of control. The way he ran a the Panama Defense systems. Much more centrally control that under the dictator. Then the Defense Forces took over control through law number 20 of the constitution. Mmigration, customs they controlled a lot of things from horse races to the lottery, airports. Into aed the military diversified corporation over which he was the chairman of the board. How many times did you put it in a mall . 45 separate occasions. Probably spent 67 months in panama. One like i wanted to ask you about. You are acknowledging people. She was a researcher who worked for me and interpreter who work for me as well. She was very plugged into some interesting circles. To irip that im referring couldnt say it at that time, we went into the providence and met with guerrillas who had been tortured or locked out by noriega. We had to meet secretly with it at presetntains locations. Sometimes they would show up, sometimes they wouldnt. One of them was actually trembling as he talks to me. He spent more time pleading with me not to use his name. At the end of the meeting he pleaded with me not to use the information. Cvs guerrillas who were locked up 20 years ago were still this nervous of the man taught me a lot about the man. Herink without the help of i would not have gone to a lot of these individuals. Eva who saved me from in vers met . A lifelong panama experts. I relied on certain experts to read my manuscript to make sure i was not doing anything historically inaccurate. Ava is responsible for whats in the book. At is an expert on panama the center for strategic and International Studies in washington. She spent many long evenings reading every page making sure that to the best of her ability i didnt make any historical or factual mistakes. Providedorters that assistance. Who are they . I should have listed 2030 reporters. These two spent the most time with me working on it. Scott malone is one of the better investigative reporters. Hes done some excellent work for frontline. James dorsey has worked for the Christian Science monitor, now working for the washington times. He is well plugged into military circles. At times in a crisis situation, it pays off for a journalist to work with other reporters. You share information and insight. Numbers. Safety in it is much better to go out to a dangerous situation with two people. James dorsey and i rented that school bus together. We came across the costa rica to border and drove up panama three days after the invasion. To you have any problems writing a book like this that friends and other orders other reporters know what you know, and they have to not publish it . Howd you come up with information, together . I was liberal printing information i would find out along the way. There is so much information in the book you dont get at all into a newspaper. By and large i didnt find that was a problem. Even if you had a newsbreak, you cant flush it out. Known the way you can in a book. Often, i didnt find it was a conflict of interest. Some names are viewers would helpedze, David Ignatius me shape the same in writing. Why David Ignatius . David ignatius is an old friend of mine. He was the middle east correspondent for the wall street journal. It help to have a very trained eye. David has been the editor of the outlook session, a trained eye looked over your manuscript. Every rider needs a good editor. David is the best. , whother was alan murray eyeincredibly kenai keen. I turned to these people because in doing a book of this size you need the help that you can get from this clever and smartest editors you have. They often point you in a a means ofr suggest telling a story you might not have fallen upon yourself. Chapter 17. Theod place to talk about way into the middle of the book. Government, and what happens inside. First page of this chapter, who harrari is . Season interesting character. Specialead over operations. Can israel. He was on his way up to the top of the organization. The he led teams after ,assacre of the munich olympics of the israeli athletes. He led the team that was to head down hunt down the palestinian terrorist. In no way he killed a moroccan waiter instead of a palestinian terrorist. It was a great embarrassment. He was able to get away from that. He was sent to mexico to be station chief. Somewhere in this he got to know , whose wife is jewish. Harrari intervened. Brokering. K groat g he was an intelligence chief under this dictator. Relationship is one of the things in the book where i dont write nearly as much as i was told simply because i couldnt cooperate a lot of them. One does know that he was close to noriega. Oriega trusted few he trusted him with domestic messages. He trusted him also regarding arms trade. I wasnt able to confirm this with documents. The panamanian government is said to have provided certificates when they want to provide arms to certain parts the world where they cant get the enduser certificate. In user certificates, if you want to buy weapons from a government. There are certain guidelines that arent allowed to buy governments. Iran during the war with iraq was not allowed to buy weapons from many different countries. Thema would provide enduser certificate. They would buy the weapons. They would go to iran. They went from the soviet union to iran through panama. Weapons never went to panama. It would read panama. You had an israeli working for a panamanian brokering arms from the soviets to go to iran through panama. Exactly. It didnt stop there. In the was a passport faculty. , the passport was a problem. You didnt get into parts of Eastern Europe with that sort of passport. Passport was accepted everywhere. The jewish ambassador was a very useful conduit for passports for israeli asians. Bookre talking about this. Are you still on leave . I have come back as a matter of fact. And ives book is out made my realms i will be taking over as the wall street journals first Berlin Bureau she. June 1 will be the First Official day. He is back in israel. The wall street journal ran a story, very interesting story outlining how he got there. It suggests someone helped him out of the country. There was a conscious decision made not to arrest him. Someone meaning . It was either israeli agents on the ground or american agents on the ground. He certainly did get help in getting out. Lamy asked the question for former mossad agent, was he there and panama on behalf of the Israeli Government . That is a good question. I dont have a satisfactory answer. He did have businesses in panama. He was known as 50 for the large omissions he would take from israeli businessman who would set up operations. These were legitimate businesses. Im told by Intelligence Experts these agents are on call for the Israeli Government when they need their services. Up ausly, mike has built number of contacts and important intelligence contacts over the years. Those dont evaporate just because you have decided officially to retire. Chapter 17. U. S. Policy follies. Who was colonel hassan . He was the chief of security for the dictator. Wass of the opinion noriega involved with the suspicious plane crash in 1981 that took torios. Of noriega was able to take over power. Because of his closeness to this dictator he was pushed up and embassies. At the time the u. S. Turned against noriega, hassan was the ambassador to israel. Harrestingly, it was mike who was running the embassy. Ari hassan was watching him. You can see there are injuries all over. He was the honorary consul to panama. Living in jerusalem. Also living in panama. Going backandforth. Herrera hassan expressed frustration it was difficult for him to act as ambassador. Harrari was really in charge. When the state department wanted to get something moving against noriega they needed an exile military leader. 1986. 1988. The indictments came in february 1988. The present ofy, panama tried to fire noriega. Nstead, he got rid of him he went into the underground. This is where the crises start speeding up in february of 1988. March, the state department secretly meets with hassan and says we want you to help us. We want you to fly to washington on the secret missions and help us get rid of noriega. Hassan said he would do so thinking if this man is coming all the way out israel to recruit me to this mission the entire old u. S. Administration must be behind it. He was wrong. Even at the state department was coming out to see cap seek help, the pentagon was fighting what they were trying to plan, the military activity that would lead to noriegas overthrow through a coup. Hassan lands in washington. The plane the plan has been defeated. He becomes the first victim of american foreignpolicy battles. He was left out to dry. One little fact. Our current ambassador from the United States to israel who approached. He made the initial contact to see if the kernel would be willing to meet with that this thing state department. Have you keep track . Lots of papers and documents. Lots of double checking with the sources. From athis whole story series, i took it to herrera hassan. I asked him to tell me his story without telling him the details in mind. His story matched my story detail by detail. When you get to completely different sources cooperating the same story without them knowing, you are confident. At some point in this chapter you write the kernel from ambassador approach, u. S. State walker, flies to and by the time he gets here, there is a line that says we dont want him anymore. Who is that . It wasnt that they didnt want him anymore. This man was being used by the state department. Is at war with the pentagon. The state department was the hawks. They wanted military action. They were the ones that suggested commando raid that would bring in noriega. The pentagon where the dogs. These events began a war between a militaristic state department. I want to ask you to name names so we know, this is 1988. The last or the Reagan Administration. Who are the militarists . Asked the military of the state department would have been allete abrams. They think Elliott Abrams shaped this. He would not have enabled do this unless it was approved. Saids believed reagan has we have to get rid of noriega. He was frustrated the goals had been set. The pentagon was blocking resources or policies that would lead to the football over the goal. Led the charge on the other side. You also see the difference in weight. A joint chief of staff against an assistant secretary of state. For elliottproblem abrams was George Schultz was traveling during this time. At the interagency meeting he did have a strong voice of the secretary of state behind him. Was aniral thought this mission. At one meeting he said to the president , do you want to risk the lives of american soldiers from illinois to unseeded dictator when the panama people themselves are willing to risk their lives to get rid of him . That is a strong argument. How did you know he said you dont want to risk people from illinois . Will able to get notes from some of the meetings. In other cases i had sources tell me what was said. I would take that account of the meeting to the other side. Side who had been involved in meetings in one way or another. I would check the account. They would either say yes that is true, no that is not true. That is the way i would play it out. Illinoismiral said because the president was from there . I didnt say he knew how to speak reagans language. Fromnted out reagan was tempe go, illinois. Illinois area. He picks the way of saying that because he knew this was the way to appeal to the president. Thats another interesting point. For president of the United States to take military action when his military officers are taking it is a difficult thing to do. He trusts his military advisers. Why . They are the ones that know the cost. Logistically what is possible. Sayave secretary scholz these people are telling you the truth, or these people are exaggerating the cost and the hostagetaking. The hostagetaking situation probably scares the president more than anything else. You see how many problems we are still having what hostagetaking. , many changese between the Reagan Administration and the bush administration. In 1989 when the invasion took place, now security advisor powell said i goal of this plant and we have a workable plan we can carry out that will do the trick. Under george bush. Ask exactly. When powell took over for admiral crowell. This gets complicated. Our, iran government own government, president reagan is sitting there for suggestions. With a fewwell, stifel stanford, says dont use military force. Elliott abrams is pushing for military force. And his harvard law degree. You have this battle of intellect. Very different men. Difference in age. Admiral crowell has led command. He was a down to earth speaker. He would sometimes hide his intellect behind this all shocks hucks exterior. Very effective in fighter. The state department. He worked in the white house. Have you met him . I have. Very impressive character. He knew how to go around bureaucracy. Human now the state department work. He knew how the pentagon worked. In these inner agency those are valuable skills. Right . Elliott to make a point of who was right or wrong. I wanted to tell the story. I will make one judgment. Ronald reagan didnt intervene to settle this battle. He didnt come down and say ok. You have these opposing views. Lets have a real policy which is measured and well thought out. What grew out of this bureaucratic paralysis was a most of facts but least resistance. The policy of least resistance was economic sanctions. Economic sanctions were imposed in april 1988 by Ronald Reagan not because anyone thought this was the most effective policy. The pentagon didnt think it was a great policy. The congress and treasury didnt think it was a good policy. The sanctions were decided upon because they were the only policy everyone could agree upon. Let me read you a line about admiral crowell. He was authorized to express his opinions. Unilaterally he solve conflicts among the chiefs. This is a result of a 1986 law that was passed. Mostll had become the powerful piece to officer in hamburg in history. Is there anything else you can say about that law . Designedk the law was to give the chairman of the joint chiefs more power to express his opinion and speak his own mind in the interagency battles that took place. Bringing him up closer to the power of either cabinet members. Difference,real certainly he was in a position where he could not speak for himself. Effective man in that position. He was handpicked by Ronald Reagan to take that job during the Reagan Administration. Know, powers we comes from his close relationship to george bush, not because he is secretary of state. Because ofowerful his close relationship. Ronald reagan trusted him enough not to distrust and when he said military action would be too dangerous. What are the lessons did you learn from watching or going back and getting both sides of the story . Became more anxious once we discovered how much information. Once you had information from the meeting it is easier to go to a participant who wouldnt talk to before. Then he will say youve got this wrong, youve got this right. Thats talk about it. One of the things one learns from writing a book like this is you revisit sources. You go back time and again to your better sources. I learned from this episode is what drives american foreignpolicy is a very complex mixture of things. It isnt a neat process that you can draw on a chalkboard. It is a combination of bureaucratic momentum and bureaucratic imperatives. But the treasury wants, what the state department wants. Individual ambition. What admiral crowell wants. Also of what is on the table. In may of 1989 you may remember there was an election that was an old. The Vice President ial candidate of that election appeared on Time Magazine what a blood drenched shirt. Panama was on everyones mind. A week later there was a massacre in tenements where tiananmen square. From the agenda. It takes a lower priority. In washington when you only so many hours in a day, that affects how you pursue policy. Davis was a political after the 1980ry election. He came in 1986 after his wife had died in a plane crash. Animals crisis cut his morning on to the unforgiving stage. Who was davis . The ambassador to panama during the crisis. Man thatndhearted cared about human rights and a man who was very emotional in his support for the opposition in panama. And in his opposition to the general. This is the same chapter we are talking about structure. His inarticulate shoot from the hip approach to sensitive diplomatic matters. I took some strain in getting my interviews with ambassador davis. Symbol because the press section of the embassy, ambassador davis is not a trained depomed. He is not a person who talks in niceties. Whose maineloper claim to the administration was the fact that he was a friend of. Oseph holly coolers he was very effective at times as an ambassador but because of the way he would drive after things with emotion. The diplomats around him were afraid to let him to lose because he would also say foolish things. He wasnt diplomatic and now. Operator in the sense that one might have needed an operator. Now you have clinton ambassador to head two this is a omatic heavyweight. I think part of the reason they put this heavyweight in panama is arthur davis was considered not a weighty enough figure for this time in history. He was the ambassador from the United States. How important is that ambassador . Ambassador is very important. Partly because of the Southern Command. You have an odd situation for the general of the Southern Command and the ambassador are too powerful individuals in the same country. Fred warner had admiral crowells ear. When he said something when work he was the head of 13,000 troops. He was a fourstar general. He was listened to. Arthur davis was not all that close. He did not have the ready access for the punch in washington that a general would have with the pentagon. That weekend the state department because ambassador davis could throw the weight around in washington a fourstar general running the Southern Command based in panama could. One last thing. Of the presson efforts. They were even more of said he couldnt control his daughter. Susan, new first lady who had become one of the obligations most boisterous backers. Embassy and to the banged on pots and pans. She often promoted the antinoriega cause. It is true. Lot. Is a susan davis was a woman who was very emotionally involved in the opposition cause. Who is the opposition . Civic crusade. The businessman who were against noriega. Who really started the strong demonstrations in june of 1987. Went the family when he underground. The family lived with the davis is in the residence. Gabrielle lewis, the leader of the political opposition used to be the ambassador to washington during the panama canal breach. One of the strongest forces the opposition. His family lived with the davises when they had to hide. Whenever susan davis would come to washington. Susan davis particularly blitz today at the Gabrielle Lewis home. The closeness between the opposition and the embassy was the sort of which one sees very rarely. It is not consider diplomatic. When you are diplomatic you are trying to keep your ties open. You know much more than what is going on. I do think this was one of the great weaknesses. I think the embassy didnt know enough of what was going on in the ruling party and the ruling circles. I think the embassy shut itself out of that partly because it had to because of sanctions and cutoffs. Also partly because he didnt try hard enough to maintain these. Where susan davis today . Im not sure. Is living inr washington giving speeches. He is working with the state department. As the ambassador sitting in the state department of until the time he was replaced. As you go through the process of gathering information and writing chapters like this, what is coming across your mind about the way we do business . What i really want to do is have a book that tells people how foreignpolicy really is made. The academics consider these sources as not sufficiently serious. Part of what i try to do is give the academics a journalistic information that will make their studies of foreignpolicy better. I think the kissingers of the world, when they write her memoirs, they are of a stature of individuals or they can really get into the things that i get into. These gossip things shape policy. The fact that ambassador davis doesnt have the weight that general warner has. This shapes have policy turns out. This was my ailing the book. To make it lively enough to bring the reader renn but show american foreignpolicy making anecdotal and fascinating affair. Sentence, because our viewers know this man from seeing the show. Some of the most detailed and troubling stories are written by Washington Post pentagon correspondent george wilson. A favorite reporter of the uniformed military. They like him. They think he is great. They think he is honest. They think he tells a great story. Military sources are interesting. I like them. It is because they are straight. They feel passionately to decide on a career as an officer in the u. S. Military takes a certain level of patriotism, of devotion. They are not going to get rich. They are not going to live a nice quiet life. Theyre going to be moving around. It takes a level of devotion most of us dont have to our careers or jobs. Because of that i respect them. Are they reason they like george is because he is a straightforward, honest and good reporter. You ever feel you are being used . The trick to being a good journalist is to figure out when you are being used, how can you avoid it. To use these motivations of your sources to gather as much information as you can. This is what the local looks like. Frederick kempe our guest is. Ur guest is Frederick Kempe unfortunately we are running out of time. Is writing a book tough . It is the hardest and most enjoyable thing ive done. You just have to dig so much harder like you do in daily reporting. There is a rewarding at the end. Where did you write . Part of the in panama. I wrote the book of the in my home on capitol hill. Is there a certain time of day you write . Yes. I write best from 6 00 in the morning to 10 00 in the morning, to 11 00 at night. Where did you get your first interest in writing . It inhink i already had Junior High School and high school. I so much enjoyed writing about things that i saw. Reading authors that i enjoyed. Where did you grow up . Whats in salt lake city, utah. I mentioned that to noriega. He asked me where i was from. He said the mormons. Many intelligence agents. Where did you go to school . The university of utah. Then the Journalism School at columbia. You wrote some for newsweek . Yes. Covering germany and Eastern Europe. You think can in the acknowledgments. He is a very savvy political analyst. His institute for contemporary studies made available to me and office to work out of in the beginning months of the book. To help me with home calls. We havent got much time. George bush. Chapter 17, mr. Opportunities. What was that . The negotiations of may of 1988 the negotiations of may of 1988. Reagan thought it was a good deal. It was almost completely done. Then george bush chose to oppose reagan on the deal. The first time he stood up publicly against Ronald Reagan on a major foreignpolicy question. I think the book goes into some detail how that decision was made. How the pressure of the campaign pushed bush into opposition to Ronald Reagan. How ultimately these pressures from the Bush Campaign and other forced the u. S. To give noriega an ultimatum. To either sign the deal or everything would be off the table. I guess, we cant go into all that detail now, but the bottom line is these negotiations were cut off before one really knew whether he was going to go through with it are not. He was begging to sign the documents. He only wanted a little time to clear it up his military officers. To get the backing domestically. One doesnt know if he would have been able to do that. One doesnt know if he would have pulled the rug out. We will never know. We pulled the rug out from the negotiation. It was more for domestic policy considerations, the interest of the bush for President Campaign than because of national security. What you say about the george connection . As for george bush, i was unable to find a smoking gun. I doubt it exists. George bush went after noriega for a methodical forceful manner , to think that he has a lot on george bush. Worked longega enough with the cia and other intelligence agencies at the u. S. Government to have a great deal of information that could be embarrassing to the u. S. I dont know whether that information needs to come out for the trial. It may not pertain to the charges against him. Is it true that we trade paid noriega working intelligence contact 200,000 a year . What i was able to ascertain was that in the 1970s he was paid up to 110,000 a year. It was not paid personally. Gnumbe2. D to the he had control of the money. In the 1980s he was paid starting at 185,000. It went up. This is a payment from one intelligent organization. What chance do you give panama for surviving under a new government . The real trick is whether is aneadership, which oligarchic leadership, whether they will be clever enough to reach out to the poor sectors of panama and help lift their Living Standards and be popular. One of the big mistakes leadership has made this far is to do away with all memories of the dictator. They may have disagreed with him but he was popular with people. I think that shows not the best political judgment. Have you enjoyed the book tour . I find america is fascinated with this subject. , what is theon moral of the story, the moral is institutions arent as good as your people. When the people found out what he was, they what allow politicians to maintain the relationship they were maintaining. When you go around the country, you see people are shocked with the relationship we had with this man, the details of how long it had gone on, and embarrassed they didnt know about it earlier. Anybody upset with what you wrote about them . So far, so good. I dont think there are people who arent happy. Hey told me that but they havent so that i have been unfair. Our guest for the last hour has been Frederick Kempe. The book is called divorcing the dictator americas bungled affair with noriega. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2014] watched these programs anytime, visit our website. Cspan. Org history. Youre watching American History television. Pardoned ford president nixon 40 years ago on september 8, 1974 after the only president ial resignation in American History. Author and history Professor John robert green considers 2 questions. What a president ford pardoned Richard Nixon, and was there a deal between the two men . He discusses the days leading up to the pardon and the september 1974 address to the nation. Author of thehe presidency of gerald ford. This was hosted by the Kansas City Public Library and the Truman Library institute. Good evening. Welcome. Im the director of public affairs. I want to thank you for joining us in the latest generation of our held to the chief president ial lecture series copresented by our partners at the chamber and Truman Library institute. Atmany of you know, here the library we left do programs commemorating anniversaries. And such is the case tonight. 40 years ago well, 356nically, 39 years and days ago work with me on this gerald ford begin the first and to date the only unelected president of the United States, an outcome that would have been beyond conception just two years earlier when Richard Nixon was cruising to his landslide victory over george mcgovern. To tell us more about that and the administration that ensued, we brought back for the third time