Us and what it means to the american, and what it means to be here. And then, what can we do . All right, lets welcome our panelists. I dont see them. So, lets bring them in, lets bring them in, lets bring them in. First, ladies first, always, ladies first. Ladee hubbard, Ladee Hubbard she is, of course, talked about literary geniuses, well, we have one here. Author of last suspicious holdout. The debut novel the talented republicans, and shes won a lot of awards as well. Thank you for joining us. Also here is ibram kendi. We got a lot to talk about, ibram. From the beginning, how to be an anti racist, anti racist babies, making it all on the news. Hes here today, all the awards, best sellers, blah blah blah. Yes. Maurice ruffin, author of the ones who dont say they love you, and his debut novel the cast, recast of shadow. Definitely gonna have an arousing conversation with him. At my birthday twin, thats why i left him last, literally, we are twins, birthday twins. Kevin powell author of many, many books including the education of kevin powell. And his latest, when we free the world. Is that our responsibility . Well, were gonna talk about that. Let me welcome the panelists. Thank you all beautiful people, for being here today. Thank you. Thank you. Im gonna kick off with little baldwin because i think its important to do that. From nobody knows my name, he writes, it is a complex fate to be an american. Americas history, her aspirations, her peculiar crimes, her even more peculiar defeats, and her position in the world, yesterday and today are all so profoundly and stubbornly unique that the very word, america, remains and you almost completely undefined and extremely controversial proper noun. No one in the world seems to know exactly what it describes, and not even we, them alliance who call ourselves americans. What does it mean to be an american. Lets start there. And im gonna start with kevin powell. What does it lacked . Im not do that to you, hi. Can i go last . Because i literally just moved out of the hotel room ill go first. Good morning, everyone. Good morning, good morning, good morning. Because repeat the question, miss karen. Great to see u. S. All. Good to see you. You must be on the left coast because this is im in california. I literally just switched hotel rooms in 20 minutes. I need to ask this question, i think, what does it mean to be black in america . Well, im an african person, im a black person. I didnt know that the first 18 years of my life, and this is one reason why the work of miss hubbard and brother kendi and brother but Maurice Ruffin is so important i. I didnt even know it existed and until i got to college. I went to school, in my home state of new jersey. My first generation subtly i knew i was back because my mother, single mothers raised me, culturally. , she sent me to school to get an education. She didnt know that going through schools would actually brainwash me to hate myself, to my skin, my nose, my lips, everything. Literally, 13 years of education is part of being a student, k12, all i learned is that black folks were slaves. That was one paragraph or two. And that dr. King had a dream, and both parties didnt even proceed. When we talk about racism, the great term that you make, made popular and necessarily popular, antiracism, for many, the first thing of being black is actually knowing that you are black, and knowing your history being rooted in it, and understanding that you can separate the contributions of African People to this place called america. Im not comfortable just saying american, i say africanamerican, because i still feel that we actually respect people, like justice, Ketanji Brown jackson, until we actually stop shooting people and their bets, until we stop this adjudicating generations of people about who they are, until we stop fighting a holistic history of all contributions to this country. Its hard to say american. You know what i mean . To just say america. Obviously, when i travel overseas, i feel my americanists, because this is where im from, in many different ways. But for me, i am with baldwin. This is a double problem that were talking about. And i think when you look at the work of our student panelists, what theyre talking about as well, how do we navigate this thing called america . How do we figure it out . You know, im just im rooted in my africanism rooted in my South Carolina zoom rooted in my brooklynism and jersey nice. Thats what im based in, thats woke in these times, you know, that have a commitment lets both a writer and activist, i wrote my 14 books, throughout my activism work, katrina relief work Voting Rights work over 30 plus years. Fighting for the common freedom of black people is really simple to me and making sure many of us as possible know who we are, and that we actually moved from the kind of self hatred that i had experienced in my lifetime because of White Supremacy, because of racism, you know, toward love, toward law for ourselves, which revolves on dr. King and malcolm were talking about, thats what it is for me. And then the bigger piece for america also understanding a certain point, that americans dont know who they are, you know. Im sure the other panelist well talk about that. What is whiteness . What does that mean . Why are you fighting, resisting conversations about antiracism . What is that about . What if you internalize around the system of White Supremacy, around racism, over these 400 years that you actually dont even want to have a conversation, that because of skin color, or gender, gender identity, or class background, as you are equal. So thats what it means to me. Were gonna get to this anti racist conversation, dr. Kendi. So just be patient. Ladee hubbard, youre right, they claim the land. They both the plantations. They fill america up with slaves. Keeping workers happy, and 400 years later, you had your military invasions and mcdonalds happy meals, your whole holes and preemptive strikes, your oreos and were gonna mix, your crimes of capital. [laughs] you we have all of the things that kevin set through your novels. There was a lot. He said a lot. That was great. With he just said it was also yeah, i have similar experiences and similar thoughts. I mean, i agree with everything he just said. It was also my experience, and i went to, like, supposedly a very fine schools, and i have never read a black book until i went to college also. So, its related, i, think its something i think about a lot. And when you first asked that question, i thought about it was recognizing how much of American Culture is black, which is created by black people and acknowledging that. And that is a part of it, and i think its a huge problem for white people also, like to admit how much of the right entity, youre talking about white identity also, to admit how much of their identity is actually shaped by that. So, yeah, that part of the bookies, the story, hes reading a book called, how europe underdeveloped africa, by will to rodney. So its a specific reference, i was trying to, it was in his head, and i was trying to show how it altered his perceptions of what was actually going on around him, by what he was reading at that moment, so. And thats from the last suspicious holdout. Everyone has to read that book. Please, lets do that. Thank you for your response. Most of us launched, a couple of weeks ago, the hearings, the confirmation hearing for justice Ketanji Brown jackson, and in that hearing, the senator from the great state of texas pulled up a bunch of books, as endemic of the problems that face and confront our children in schools, with critical race theory. And he rattled off a bunch of books, among them, how to be anti racist. And then, he had the audacity, to put posters, big giant posters of anti racist baby as a problem, because we are infecting the minds of young children, and babies, to think of themselves as racists. Doctor the kendi, those are your books. Those are your books. And you wrote to twitter after that, and you said, let me see what you said. He tried and failed to distort and weaponize anti racist babies, and stand for kids. What the people, what you sow through the nonsense and now, these two books are New York Times bestsellers. That was a moment that you didnt ask for, but we were here for it. But before you get to that, what does it mean to you to be american and black . First, i just want to thank doctor green, of course, for her leadership, and i just want to thank each of you for your just incredible work, to be able to work in this Incredible Community of black writers. Its what sorts of feeds me, you know, what do you say. And, you know, to this question, karen, i think this is a question that, i think, black americans, you know, in particular, have always struggled with, because you are really asking a question about nationality, and black americans, in particular, have never truly felt home in the United States, you know. Even when we go back to countries, lets say, in west africa, we may not even necessarily feel completely home. So, in many ways, black americans dont even feel like they have a nation. But then, other scholars, you know, starting with people like saying no, we do have a nation. Black americas our nation. We have a nation within a nation. It sort of reminds me of hughes when he wrote of course in his poem, i, too, and then american. But then, for two years later, malcolm x said in a famous speech that im not our publican, im not a democrat. Im not even american and got censored you know, he said im one of the 22 million black victims of the republicans of the democrats you know of the americans and so in many ways i think there isnt necessarily a right answer to this question. And black writers have been arguing that you know really from the beginning of our sort of probe. For me i think that is, we should also be considering who controls america, because in many ways, who controls america is gonna determine what is an american. And certainly, black folks have been fighting for our freedom, so we can control ourselves and our story. You know, from the beginning, so that we can then determine what is an american. Now, when ted cruz held up your book, and did all of those things, and in trying to, i guess half a gotcha moment with judge brown jackson. I know it helped your book sales. But what does it say about this country, when a person like Ketanji Brown jackson could be taken through the cases that she was taken through, when just when the marshall was going for confirmation that wasnt hard. That was during a period of time in this country which should not have been harder for a black person to yet, she was staking through, and at the cost of this is this battle around race, and racism, and what is racism and anti racism. How do you feel about that . I need, karen, i initially felt so horrible about judge jackson. I mean, you know, for her to have to, for me to see, after the fact, that was like, something when it was happening for her to have to deal with my book or the book of another sort of writer being distorted and weaponized, and then, for her having to sort of gather herself, and who knows what ran through her mind. You know, when she was, you know, i think i felt that for her, and i just want to further emphasize that because you know theres been a lot of conversations around it. That was a very difficult moment for her that senator the grooves created. I think to think that we have senators who think that the existential threat is anti racism, as opposed to racism, you know thats all i need to know about what the senators think what they believe, what the champion, what they defend. And its certainly not the rest of us for a struggling to dismantle this structure. For those in the back, and those who came in with nefarious, you know, just define what is anti racism . What is it, so that we can have it out there . Anti racism, you know, particularly when we think about it from a structural standpoint, its about creating, you know a set of policies and practices that can create equity and justice for our people, on the bases that the racial groups are equal. Okay we got that now. It should be settled. Thank you so much dr. Kendi, for your work as well, and everyone in this room. Kevin powell, chuckle a little bit. Lets get your hard question, that was an easy one. You know, as i was listening to doctor kendi and Ladee Hubbard even brought it up to that point, there really is no American Culture without black people. So when doctor kendi talked about the power structure, i think black folks are at the center of the power structure of america. Like, there is no america without black people. So arent we in power . And if we knew that, you know, would we move differently . Well, first of all, i want to apologize. I didnt acknowledge dr. Greene, brenda green and april seven, the folks who put this together. I just want to say thank you, thank you all for the folks who were behind the scenes to make this happen. Im just honored to be here. When i came to this at first it was a 1991, so its really incredible to see this continuing, going on. The racism, to me, his race plus power, equals racism. And in a context of any society, in the context of american society, its who does have power, who does not. Its not an either or, you can talk about american history. You can talk about music. You can talk about scientific progress. You cant talk about the arts. You cant talk about the all institutions in d. C. Including the capitol that was struck in january six, with the socalled insurrection, without talking about black people. You cant talk about literature without talking about black people. You cant talk about the journey of america, period, without a black people. You cant. Its just impossible to do so. But black people have ever had power in the country in this country, in the way i define power, the ability to determine our lives. Were talking about termination. If i can go to school, im speaking with maurice earlier, he lived in a black community, so they dont deal with White Supremacy. Actually, we do, even if you are only a black people, youre still talking about someone thats lived here, that someone once that more attracted to someone whose and one body type is superior to other body type. Youre sleeping with the effects of racism. Racism is a race plus power, which means im dictating how you see yourself and what you can and cannot do it in a given society at any time. When i walk a point on, when there is a california or new york where i live, and not have to think about getting killed simply because im a black person, that is called racism. Black people in this society in america and other places where we are an american minority. We are not minorities. We are in america minority, of course its like england. Like canada like the United States can we actually control every aspect of our lives . And if the answer is no, you know, the two are depending on something else, or fearful that something may happen to us, simply because of who we are as black people, as African People, we dont have power. We are actually disempowered, and what weve been fighting for, since the very beginning, is to be in power, which is why when you think about everything, you know, from folks after reconstruction, you know, the building of schools, the building of the call for land. You know, when you think about even before that in the 1920s, these are different movies. What is black lives matter . You want to be in power. You know what i mean . That doesnt mean that i dont think we are a powerful people. I know that. That goes beyond question. Look at the body of work that abraham, and lady, and maurice, and you, karen, represent. Look at the body of work, you can see the power, the genius, the excellence of black people, every single day. What im talking about, what i think about power, is how we get to that, this is a system. Racism is race plus power equals racism. And when i can get to a place where we dont have someone attacking peoples work, and ignorant, white supremacist politician, attacking his work, and attacking a black woman, judge, i suggested earlier, because i was trying for shadow that shes gonna get in. But judge Ketanji Brown jackson, who we know was more qualified than Amy Coney Barrett and Brett Kavanaugh, because they are mediocre, white people. They are mediocre white people. The system allows that mediocre white people to actually question the scholarship of dr. Jackson, or the genius of judge Ketanji Brown jackson, because she had threatened that the system of racism had somehow fallen apart, just by letting in a few people of color. Thats the insanity for a system. Thats the insanity of racism. And so, which we are fighting for, and this is for anyone whos listening, who doesnt understand, show me a time in history of america where black people have wanted to do to white people, or white supremacist, what theyve done to us. It doesnt exist. If you actually note history, all weve been saying, i want the right to vote without interference. I want the right to walk down the street without getting killed. I want the right to be in my bed without getting shot. I want to be able to go somewhere without getting a need to death. Thats all what weve been saying for 400 years. That set. I want the right to write a book about antiracism, and not be told the time the problem, because im criticizing the problem. Yeah, we are here. Were all here. All a very successful, as you mentioned, two more reeses point, writing, writing, writing our stories, telling our narrative. Being involved in self determining how we get to be shaped this at the cost of anything. And this conference is an example of that. I look at the roster of people, and i was like, okay, we are where we were 30, 40 years. I just want to say this for the panelists were being very nice and polite. Please, jump in. Im just here directing traffic. I need you to all just jump in, because i see brains moving. Ladee hubbard, you had something you want to jump in with. No, no, i agree with what is being said. I was thinking you know i write fiction, i write books. And so, theyre kind of related gestures for me, because i think that, even when i was saying that, you know, its so much of america is actually black culture, or derived from black people, that its so, that fragility issue, and the inability to just admit that, which is about power. I just feel like that is part of the most basic problem, this inability to just admit the truth about history and why people are so afraid of talking about things that are, are, you know, seem pretty clearly part of the reality that we all live in, and supposedly share. And yet, its so hard to just get to a point where you can talk about things, honestly. Which is, you know, its kind of like a pathology. So people out there, identities are so dependent on black people occupying a certain position that is a very hard to just look at whats there, what is very clearly precedent. And so, you know, as a writer, as someone that writes fiction, those are probably the terms on which i think about it. Do you know what i mean . I hope yeah. And this all is kind of intertwined. You know, as im looking at you and your work, Ladee Hubbard, im also thinking about all of the books turned into movies, into television shows. Im talking about sally whitfield. Im thinking about, you know, love country, and all of the art that now is in, its like part of our culture. We are people who are now learning about what black wall street from watchman, from a graphic you know, its like theres a convergence now. And kevin, to your point, that power, i think, is transferred back. We are already power companies. We powered the country, on the backs of our free labor. And now, we spend money to make all these companies rich, right . Disproportionately, you talk about cleaning, hair care, thats our dollars. And now, politically, we are seeing movement happening. And we are seeing it across the board. Its not just the black frontier is it here to stay . Is it here to stay, ibram kendi . I look at those sellers every week, theres a bunch of black people around here, making money, selling books, selling books. One thing i think we havent maybe acknowledged, you know, as a black people, its how much, even in the black community, theres been a political transformation, particularly over the last, you know, 20 years. Of course, in the 90s, you know, the many prominent black political figures, and even artist who were consistently and routinely disparaging black people, in all different ways. And that is simply like not the case now. And i think that, i think because of that, particularly of artists and writers, there is more and more, i think, artists and writers have been able to free themselves, im talking about black ones, who have been able to free themselves of the white gays. And freeing themselves of the white case, theyve been able to really unlock the creativity of all the great, like, others who dont care about the white gaze, which then allows for, you know, the creativity to flower, which then has allowed the sort of beauty of their art, you know, to lauer, flower. Which has led more people to gravitate to it. I think we live in an incredible time, you know, for black writers and artists and creators, but i think part of that is because we dont really care about anymore. And to a certain extent, many of the writers dont even care about what black folks did. They are writing to challenge black people. They are writing to reflect black people, and they know, sometimes, even black folks may write like that. I think thats the job of the artists. To that point, Ladee Hubbard, and kevin you can jump in on this, what do you write for . When you sit down and craft your, i always want to know that from rioters. What do you right . Whos it in your head when you sit at your computer . People ask me this, i wish i had Something Better to say. Its funny that you brought that up because i do feel like i write for myself. So, i dont want to clatter in my head. Its hard. I cant but think about pleasing other people. Its a distraction. Im not the first person to notice that. Its a huge huge distraction and a waste of time. I just wouldnt get anything out of me. I left in, yeah, i tell myself that theres somebody that will understand what i am saying, and there is somebody that needs to hear it, the way when i was younger, i read certain things, and i was so grateful that they existed. You know, and so, i really do try to quiet all of those voices, and not think about them. Because it comes up, and you do think its not just the white guys, its true like how is this gonna be perceived, or people are gonna think like i agree with anything my character is saying, or what is my grandmother nothing, or my grandfather about what im seeing here. Its an obstacle to try to be honest, and ultimately, to respect the complexity of your characters, and their experiences. So, yeah, i agree, i agree. I was listening to this very very interesting also, too, the stories are all set in the, well, the 90s, that era prior to obama being elected. So i was really thinking about, like when you talk about black people attacking other black people, and how that is part of what i remember the, was, for me, it looked very like, class, like theres a successful black people that got it together. And then, theres all these other black people who dont have an excuse, and there was a lot of blaming people, right . And it was very ugly, at times, and that was something that really, i wanted to write about. Because there were, again, structural things going on. Underneath all of that. And your denying it, if you think that black people and also, its part of what happened after, you know, the post civil rights era, sometimes people would call it, because you did have, you know, if you could afford it, and not always true, but there was more people going to white schools or integrated schools, and that had its own impact, i think, in terms of how people saw each other and the relations to each other. You know, my uncle wrote i thought it was funny, a black football team, the schools were integrated and these are big football fans, huge fan steam, basically ruined the team because they werent allowed to play. Anyway, thats the kind of an aside. But its very complicated i think what was going on during the 80s and 90s, and certainly, how people related to each other. And also, the way that a lot of very racist ideas articulated themselves, change as well. And in even people who need to be much more open about what is it theyre ultimately trying to say, now, compared to back then . There is a lot of the altercation. Theres still is, but it seems to have its not as pretty clear often. Its a very, very clear and explicit thing where people are coming from, right . Yeah there seems to be an evolution. I think kevin powell could probably speak to this better than anyone, because he evolved through that. I watched him literally evolve through a period of time, as a journalist, as a thought leader. His books have even kind of chronicled, its almost like a play list of what we went through and endured. What are your thoughts on what ladee is saying, govern . I mean i love that ladee youre next talent fiction writer. I just want to say that. Thank you for your intellectual genius as well. I gotta say this, i love this. And my mind, its just moving as you are talking. I hope i can get back to the call. A lot of things on my head right now, and im gonna try to practice shakespeare and remedy. Im also paying attention to the chat room of the audience, and theyre asking some very profound questions. Let me say a couple of things that i hope that, you know, we can agree or disagree. Let me say a couple of things. One of my late mentors, we just passed, doctor bell hooks, set the tree always should name the oppression, name the oppression, and i got to see dr. Bell before she passed. I want to her home in kentucky, and its was one of the saddest days in my life. I also factor for what you gave us with her work. You know, 40 books in 40 years, i challenge anyone to name another public intellectual was greeted 40 books and 40 years in this country, no matter what their race is, their gender. Trying to not to get emotional just thinking about that. White supremacy, capitalism, patriarchy, we as a people, in this country, do ourselves disservice if we dont name the oppression. As ibram said, antiracism, what does it look like . Youve got a name it, you have to name it. When i first started writing as a child, i wrote fiction first lady. I love fiction. Im a huge love of fiction. I simply wanted to save my life. Writing is as important to me is breathing. I need to say that. You know, i take very seriously the art, the craft of writing, you know what i mean . When i get to college at 18, i was literally in the middle of the crack era, the aids era, and the anti apartheid, the announcement i was still in jail. I dont know any about the stuff, historically, and so, at 18, 19, after reading the overall biography of malcolm x, and reading other stuff, it help me to contextualize. It doesnt matter, its important. You know, its problematic to say, this is not fiction, and this is fiction. No, all of our literature is equally important to me. Ive been reading the store and richard wright, as i did reading baldwin and, you know, whoever wrote i made a conscious decision. One, i have to save my life, as a black person, as an african person, because i am now carrying around, i began to understand, before we use terms like actually system, White Supremacy, and trauma, i understood at 18, 19 years old, kevin powell, you have just gone through just dramatic stuff that was passed to you by your mom, and your daddy, that they got from their parents, and so on, right from the very beginning. So, i didnt know that. I had to make sense of it. And one person said it best, our literature is about making sense about the chaos of this world. Im paraphrasing him. I agree with ladee. Im writing about myself, first and foremost. Im a black writer, and i realize that writing has been important to me, going to my therapy sessions for 30 years, has my spiritual work, christiane, practices important to me, as yoga practices, meditating, im trying not to die. Does that make any sense . Im trying not to die. And when i say and, i just physically die, but die underneath all the chaos that we lack people have to deal with every single day in america, thats what i think about. Secondly, i began to realize that i have a responsibility because i come from the tradition that got all the way back to the slave narratives, that goes back to renaissance, the black artist movement, because i had to study all those things. I understood that i come from a tradition, so i do have a responsibility to my community. And so, i think about, yeah, im writing stuff, but im also thinking about, am i representing my community the way i want to be represented myself . Where my putting trash on this . Am i putting garbage out there . You know what i mean . I think about that very seriously. I think about the stuff that i absorbed it was trash to me when i think about it, the education malpractice. When you tell me at school that all black people in the world are slaves, and you talk dont talk about ancient africa, you dont talk about modern africa. You dont talk about anything that we created, build in this country. This is trash. Im very conscious that i dont need to put trash out there in the community. My work is for everyone. Im sure that ladee will agree with it, one publishers say, who is your audience . Thats a joke to me. Your audience is whoever reads your work. Thats your audience. Thats a broad as narrow as you want to be. Anyone who reads your work, not everyone may read it differently because of the lens they come with. The last thing i will say that i think is important about, you know, who we write for, i mean, its about liberation to me at this point. Its been that way for a very long time. Its like, how can this work free me . For example, when i first read the autobiography of malcolm x, when i was 18, 19 years old, it blew my mind. He liberated me in a way i couldnt even have imagined. When i first read for the first time, i understand that the ditch of my mother from the low country of South Carolina was beautiful poetry, because he put it in a book. Does that make sense . I need to realize, wait a minute, everything that i need to read as an artist, as a writer, as a thinker is right in front of me in my head. And i didnt know it because i had the practice, ive been taught self hatred for the first 18, 19 years of my life. Everything i read, i can take this, and go for with it for the rest of my life. Of course, my writing for me, this ultimately about telling the truth. And telling the truth, certainly, you gotta tell the truth of black people. What we had to go through in this country, on this planet, not just black people in america, in the west caribbean, canada, europe, all over the world. We should never be apologetic about being black. We should never be apologetic about being black. We should be proud to say, i am in love with my blackness. Im in love with my african this. Its not about hating everyone else. I love all people. But i will be if im gonna put my love for other people ahead of myself. And thats what my literature is about. I got henry myself, my mama, my aunties, my grandmother. Thats why you see them in my 14 books, over and over again. It doesnt matter if its poetry, essays, my two preferred choices of writing. I have to honor my community, because i have a responsibility to be a documentarian for these times. And then the last part of it you ask a question, i gotta say this yall, with all due respect, and this is a bit of a pushback. No, there is no movement happening, because if there was a movement happening, you know what i mean, you would not have had people debating on social media whether Ketanji Brown jackson was being treated properly enough. You dont have this huge divide on social media on what happened between will smith and chris rock a week ago. Its a constant. We need to understand, dementia for me, as you see 4 million plus people, fleeing ukraine because of the constant bombardment by the russians on ukraine, thats the metaphor, the analogy for black people in america that they had to deal with for 400 years. Were constantly on the run. Were constantly refugees in some form or another. Were trying to figure out how we are, and the thing that hurts my heart, as a music lover, as you know karen, someone whos committed to music for a long time, because i learned that from people like albert mary, and as much as we can say lady, writing an incredible book for which they are, our music is worse than its ever been. I am seeing that as a lifelong hiphop fan. You know what i mean . So theres really a movement, we dont have literature thats questioning whats happening over here and ever find a way like ladee and ibram have been doing. And then have music, some of the words worst stuff said about black people. We have more black people that says to me, in spite of all the folklore progress, there is a profound self hatred. Profound sulfate trade, which is a result of racism that permeates everything that we do, which leads to rappers merging each other. And elites to one black man snapping another black man on his stage. It leads to people disrespecting, i mean, judge Ketanji Brown jackson, whether she is black enough. Weve got some serious work to do. The reason why black literature is necessary is because literature is the one place where we can question, interrogate, and try to figure out, why is this going on . He how much of that is curation . How much of that is what we see may not always be all that there is, as it relates to the music, as it relates to the music, how many of us are producing, you know, what cells, right . I was talking with ibram kendi about this, whats on the list, the best selling the publishes decide to give money to, who they decide to promote. Its very curated. Thats what they want, and thats what youre gonna produce. And in many ways, its like bad almighty dollar becomes, you know, the thing that we chase, because that music is produced, because that music is what they care rate and thats what they sell to us fetus a disease. Were almost educated. To that point dr. Kendi, do you feel responsibility to educate white people . Is that with antiracism and the Anti Racist Movement that schiff greeted in book form, is that what that is, telling them what they need to turn . No, i dont feel that its my responsibility to educate white people. And i would say, more broadly, its not the responsibility of black people to educate white people. I dont think its the responsibility of people of color to educate white people. I think its the responsibility of white people to educate white people. And i dont, i do think, though, that it is important for me, as a scholar, you know, and a writer, to put out literature that allows people who are taking that responsibility be it and they are white black or any other race, for them to gain more clarity on what racism is, and how they can sort of challenge it. But, for me, if i was to say that its my responsibility, or if i was to say its black peoples responsibility, to educate white people about racism, then what im also saying is that if white people are not educated about racism, its black peoples fought. Its my fault, and i dont see that as our fault. And ive never seen it as our fault. Indeed, thats one of the earliest, i remember you know, there was an historian in the 17 90s, a white abolitionist, started entering into free black communities, and basically saying to free black people and that it was their responsibility to act in an upstanding manner, to persuade away white racist ideas, which those white abolitionists stated, where the foundations of slavery. So not making money, not making violence, not power, but they believe that racist ideas, we or the foundation of why white people were enslaving people, and they believe these white abolitionists, that white people fought lesser than black people, because we act lesser. So they went to black folks, yeah, he also just act in a better way, and a more outstanding way. And then, those white folks, they say there is nothing wrong with black people. Theyre equal. And then, those white people will then eliminate or stop enslaving them. And then, you know, that is theory. You know, i call in my work, uplift dissuasion. We are based in a racist idea that somehow you know, white people think less, again, because we do act lesser. To me, thats a racist you know, idea. I dont think, again, its our responsibility, or its my responsibility to educate away white folks. Now, if a white person takes it upon themselves and comes to my book, or comes to another black persons book, as part of their journey, and theyre challenging themselves, certainly, i want to be one of the people who provide them with leverage. Okay and to that, you know, theres been a lot of conversation with the tells you you are what you eat. We kind of know where our sensibilities ally and what we engage with on social media. But that notion, that whatever happened last week at the oscars, is no reflection on black people, which is why i wouldnt engage in conversations about it representing black people, even though black people, as kevin and others pointed out, it was a divide, a deep divide among us. What that divide was really about how we came to that moment, personally, like that moment, what it meant for us personally, not so much like that what a moment like its not representation of black people. And yeah, white folk want to know from us what we think about that thing, because you know, if you are inclined, as i said, as i tweeted, you are inclined to think that moment is white people dont see, think highly of black people, then you really missing the assignment. You are really are confused about whats happening in this country and the world around race and racism. Kevin, do you agree with that . I didnt want to go ahead of ladee. Oh , have at, it ladee. Ladee, do you agree with that . First of all i love your day. You know, Ladee Hubbard, i can see that one on a marquee, in lights. The royal name. My great grandmothers name, she named herself ladee, and thats why i have that spelling, because thats how she spelled it. So, yeah, im sorry, i got all caught up. Sorry, it was the question . That wasnt i. I was basically saying, to kendis point, we are not gonna behave our way into, to white people to like us, to respect us, or told us in high stand. Its not about our behavior. If you feel this way about black people, as a white person, you feel that way, and oh yeah, i always knew thats how they work. But you are already inclined to feel that way. Theres nothing we can do to stop a person from feeling that we are beneath them, that we are less than and thats why i dont even want us to acknowledge their opinion about us at all. This is family business, in my opinion. Again, you are making me think about a lot of things, in terms of that. The first book that i wrote, the talented with guns, i was just very tired of it just me personally, not all books, but i was really thinking like is there a way that i can write about race and racism, and the history without sort of centralizing we, like a confrontation between black people and white people. So, that was like, it was on my mind. That was on my mind. Like, there are actually no white characters and that book. There is only one, and the only thing that she let might be a slight exaggeration, but the only direct part the talks to me, she says that your job isnt to seamy, which is i was thinking that to myself. But someone actually says, to one of the characters, like the direct, isnt that your job to see me . So thats something that was evoked, when people talk about teaching, if there is an obligation no i cant write like that. Obviously, im aware that there is often an expectation that thats what black people are doing, were talking about, and all people are talking about all day long is white people, you know. So, i was thinking about that. And also, when you are talking about bell hooks, that book also, i remember she has, there is something i read. I wrote love bill hooks as well, but i dont know her. Ive seen her, but i dont know the way you do. There was some, one of her books was about the gays, and i cant remember which was stuck in about. She was starting the man in her family and how they were quiet, that it was like the women were i was, like it was very beautiful to me, because between made me think about the sort of ideas that i had acquired about the way in which black men and black women interact, as parents. And i was like, thats so much more familiar to me than anything i can recall meeting. And it was very, very profound. And that too is something i thought a lot about when i was writing that book, because that book, that first book is about an older man and his in his teenage niece. And it was very much about my grandfather and myself. Like, emotionally, for me. That was very moving. So, again, i need to read. That it just opened up so many things for me. And theres so much that she wrote that had the same effect. But when you are talking, i was thinking about that specifically, like this wanting to write a story that describes sort of a different set of relationships than i had often saw in the media, or heard about, what the dynamic was and families between men and women. So, anyway, im sorry. Thats where my mind went, while you guys were talking, sorry. No thank you kevin for also evoking her name. You will never pass, you will never really and doctor ibram brought up a great point. I need to reiterate it. If i can just speak again, you know, im an activist. Im a writer. Im sure other writers, on this panel, this great panel, we all have spoken. We speak around the country. We speak globally. And you know, im gonna bring ink back to malcolm x for a minute. Malcolm tells a story famously that a white sister and he said nothing, but then after he made his pilgrimage, you know its hot, to mecca, he realized the two i dont think the responsibility of any marginalized or priest group to teach their group that is oppressing gorman lodging marginalizing that. But i do believe as human beings, we are the at responsibility if someone asks the question of what should i read what should i watch, which i listen to . As human beings, conscious now that i dont want to take on the behavior of people who have hated me, who have marginalized me, who are pressed me. Im not going to say to any human being, i, go figure out for yourself. That was the case thinking about it. Here i am now in 2022 someone who can say, you know, my work around ending gender violence, violence against women and girls, or fighting against homophobia, transphobia, its important to me as fighting against racism. That wouldnt be the case of women or lgbtq folks, that say to me, heres some things you need to read, heres some things you need to watch. So i dont want us to lose our humanity in the midst of all of this. Thats why i keep saying, its not an either or. Its work that i definitely knew specifically with black people. Im very clear about that. Im not positive sized. But i know when im out there speaking, and doctor ibram you know that, we all have the experience where weve gone places where there aint no black people and audience. And theyre asking questions. And we have a responsibility, as human beings, as folks who want to see the world change, to say, heres what you can do. It is the things you can watch. But i think what i advise people against, and i say this to white folks as well, black people are no longer interested in being a metaphorical, lets not happening anymore. We are not going to be your manners anymore. You cannot be coming to, us its not this whole situation, with black lives matter, i guarantee you everyone here got tons of phone calls, email messages, text messages, social media messages from white folks, asking, can, is everything okay . Is there anything you can talk about . Can i ask you a question . Because folks, the problem is, white folks in america are grossly as educated as well. There is this awakening happening now that we have never seen before. Im gonna say it again, ive been doing this since the 19 80s, antiapartheid era, we in the 80s and 90s, it was majority black and brown people. Only what happened in 2020 in the midst of the pandemic that i see numbers, of white folks who, i believe its because of the work of dr. Abrams, because the groundwork has been laid. So it was just a matter of people, this is what i need to read, this is what i need to study. Heres the language what im looking for. I need to be anti racist and then got that doctor kendi, and people like them avowed the fourth to say, this is the work that needs to be done here. I think that for some white folks, because of how horrific the White Supremacy of donald trump was and how horrific it was for what happened to be on a tail, and george floyd. You can just keep focusing on black men. , they dont regard as a certain way either. And i cant be just like money to do the work of understanding how to unravel sexism. You know what i mean . And we need to be a hoax, we need to be and two ladies point murrays talked about that earlier when he is on the call. But you cant center whiteness. You gotta stop centering whiteness. Superior to everyone else. And we know thats a lie thats a lie. And nobody superior. Nobody. You know what is superior is the power that some groups have had that have dictated the rest of our lives. But no one is superior to anybody. The stories of that their lives in not superior any of that kind of stuff. And i think thats what the battles for and i think that thats why you see what were seeing now with the ted cruzs know blowing up dr. Egans book and i think thats why you see we see now with ted cruz, pulling up doctor ibram book like that they say that were trying to hold on to white nationalism. We are holding on to White Supremacy. We want to make America Great again. Thats only for white people, living for heterosexual my white males and white women where their allies, who believe in that stuff. And this is an adjustment to the rest of us. We need to be very clear, we need to say to black folks, things will increase ultimately at this traction. Its a distraction. The real problem for me, three levels of the fight, and the struggles we call. It one is the fight against all systems of oppression. Thats number one. What are you going to fight back any kind of hatred marginalization, or person in this country on this planet . The second struggle is what people are talking about in the chat, which i love, what are we gonna talk about black folks . Hey, black people, what are we doing here. Im saying to you as someone wasnt involved in a lot of ways, im still a work in progress. I realize, i can just fight racism final pressing black women. I cant talk about racism if im homophobic and transphobia. I can talk about racism of ayman classist. You know what im saying . I need to talk about it all because its an intersectionality that crenshaw stopped about for the last few years. And then third piece of, it one is the larger picture. Number two, the black community, the third piece, which everyone keeps saying, can, in the chat, what about the black self . Thats where the conversation where will smith is important because whats going on with us you, entirely, what are the traumas, the triggers that weve been carrying around, the two have been passed to us like generations that weve not dealt with that will lead us, to course each other, slap each other, punch each other, shoot each other, merger each other, call each other names on social media. The reason i had this conversation i dont or, i cant even do the cnns, the msnbcs, fox news channels, hardly ever. Because people are yelling at each other. The beautiful thing about this conversation, we take turns speaking. Everyone is stressful. How about that . Aint that nice . You know, this is a space created out of the mind of a few people, and dr. Green has attested to that. It inspires me to have conversations with a doctor cornyn on saturdays that led us to that narrative, now i see a lot of nutrients in the chat. We have a space where we had a family meeting, i didnt talk about on the radio. We talked about it as a family first because we do have the trauma that we have to work through and we have to work through it in a space of love and respect and maybe we dont even know what that looks like yet. Maybe some of us, we dont even know we start to know that in the space, we see each other and Everybody Knows our names, right . So, we are not operating from that deficit. Doctor kendi as you are contemplating what kevin and ladee have just set, and i do hope we come back to that. I see the questions in the chat. Thank you, kevin, for telling me to check the chat. I feel like this is an Inflection Point that weve been in with a convergence of the pandemic. The george floyd but, now Ketanji Brown jackson on the heels of having trump, and now biden, theres a lot going on in the world, and i do feel there is an awakening. There is a lot of black people that i need to buy black, i need to be black, i need to respect black. I think the music is gonna shift in the next five years. Things dont hope happen overnight. Young people, 13 14 years old, theyre gonna save us. I feel like they got it. What are your thoughts on this, doctor kendi and then of course ladee . So, what im saying is that everything, in terms of that wave of black people who in many ways are embracing themselves, complicating themselves recognizing that theyre a perfectly equal with other groups of people, really sort of diving into their humanity, really even, you know, as ladee stated, you know having the sort of confrontation between blackness and whiteness, but i also think that we are in the moment when there are more and more black folks who are seeing and pursuing opportunities, to destroy black people. And there are so many, you know let me give an example. This election cycle you know, many of our progressive lack of congresswoman and men are facing, are facing candidates who are rallying against, quote, crtc. Are facing candidates who are arguing that, you know, what would happen to Ketanji Brown jackson, you know, wasnt potent. And hurrah leaning about the way that Brett Kavanaugh was treated. These are people who are saying that racism is a leftwing hoax. And i know, personally, many of these, as we call them, black conservatives, really, really hate my work. I mean, really hate my work. You know, John Mcwhirter wrote a book, attacking many of black writers. And thats why, i also dont want to ignore that there is, you know, a growing number of, you know, black folks who are figuring out ways to tell the things that you are building, so that they can benefit, and potentially, be freed, and potentially even, as slaves, literally, who were told and could turn around and become slave holders of enslaved people. We are literally in this moment where we are going into directions. I just want us to call out those black folks, and recognize those black folks, and challenge those black folks, just as we listen to those black folks like ladee and given or moving our full souls. Ladee hubbard . I agree. Its really wild to think about. And its just, it seems like its a very, its a fraught period right now. Do you feel like that is a recent phenomenon . Or is it like more promoted now . In terms of sort of what underlies what kind of conservatism . Do you think thats heightened right now. . I dont think its a recent phenomenon. But i think there are just more people who are publicly publicly. Sort of carrying the work. I mean it is financially viable to be isnt it financially viable to be a person that carries the order for antiblackness, if you are black . If you are really really profitable . It is right . Yeah, i mean, its always profitable. Thats what im saying. And that hasnt changed, now we have social media, we have endless ways in which we can direct traffic to an audience. Should we grab some questions . I think we should grab some questions . All right, what a name . I love our names. What is the top heavy issue in the black community itself, the black community, and whatever that issue is, how do we combat that, and at the same time, fight outside ourselves . No one, okay look, i think it has to come back to love. Is that the issue . Is the issue a lack of love . Yeah my opinion. I think that there is been an issue for me it was a step by step process. I didnt know what love was i dont know that black anything existed, thats why i want to be a writer. And as i began to study our history, like malcolm x said, you know, history is the peoples memory, we are demoted to the lower animals. This is malcolm x speaking. That process, i stuck to move from self hatred self love. This is journey thats gonna happen in the next couple of months next couple of years. I mean, ladee, and ibram, we all have studied for years, and years, and years. Youve been doing this work, and i got a shout out to you youve been doing this work for years and years and years. Youve been taught, youve been talked through under 65, 24 7, do it yourself, you gotta put in work to counter that. So, you know, i in one black person unless they were raised by very, very woke parents, very will communities is not engaged in some form of metaphorical slap. I mean theres very few what they can say, and who actually thought about, do i actually love myself . Do i love my people or what . You know i mean . Its the process of journey but you gotta be willing to engage in that. And i think how we talk of ourselves. This panel is important because there is lavender speck for each other. Ive been on panels where ive grange like, is this person really thinking this whole panel is just about them . Do they actually have respect for other people . I mean, its love. Black people have been Program Joint ourselves its gotta come back to black love. I dont push back on something, someone said black nationalism is the answer. Look, i have a book on tupac shakur coming out. And in a year and a half, its finally coming. Publishing but the whole nine yards. But its forcing me to do it deep down dive, follow me for a second, back to the 60s. So the rise of the black liberation movement. Im here to tell you, Tupac Shakurs mother had not only had the to fight White Supremacy, patriarchy, she had to deal with the hatred of black men who were socalled progressive. That is a common story that came up with a lot of the sisters who are elders out of the civil rights movement. Think about how any black woman was even allowed on stage around the time that dr. King gave the i have a dreams speech, other than Mueller Jackson singing a song, all those speakers were women. We need to understand that nationalism, be it black or white, its actually rooted in sexism and matriarchy. Its not about lifting up you know, some want to be the head of the community, the head of the white house hold. Thats our cake, you all. Which were talking about, how can we all be free but equally. And black nationalists can be rooted in hitting people, because they happen to be lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, not gender conforming, non binary. I am like, yo, before she died and she talked about the hatred, she dealt with as a black woman, sexism as a lesbian woman, homophobia. And so, im thinking like, its gotta come back to. Lovejoy actually love black people unconditionally or not. . And do i put conditions on the i love you if you are this . I love you if you are that. I love all black people. Thats what youve got to get to. Thats what james baldwin, the namesake for this panel, its about. We have to love or black people no matter who they. Our we gotta be at it, in my opinion. Ibram, do you want to jump in on the question . Kevin . I think given and start. The one thing i would say is, for me, its health. You know, according to David Williams a scholar, dont back people die prematurely per day because of health disparities. And then those of us who have lived, you know recent evidence is showing that racism itself, you know its a stressor. And so, for me, you know, our physical and Mental Health, you know, its a primary issue. And even what given stated, you know, whether we love ourselves, or hate ourselves, thats a Mental Health issue. Yeah. Abraham has a question for you, doctor kendi. How do you do with teaching young blacks not to be a victim of this cultural racism that we see in our society . . I think thats one of the reasons why i have moved to write more for children and four kids for kids is if we can provide a younger black kids with a literature that allows that, first, to realize that there is nothing wrong with you because of the color of your skin. And then, they also need to read the history of who created those ideas and why. It was meant as a creative shield for them to not think that theres something wrong with them, or black women, to kevins point, we all poor people are black poor people. And then they can doctor ladee, Ladee Hubbard, lets go to doctor greens question. This is a new renaissance and black literature. And if so and went to . It does seem like it is a very specific moment. And you know, i think other people have spoken about that in terms of people sort of claiming their voices. And unlucky distance. So, i was just listening to what everybody was saying. And its true because i, interim of Self Expression and stuff like that, i do think a lot of the hatred of others does stem from a lack of self love. And the sort of, it makes you feel very threatened, i think, by difference, often, when you dont have the resources to sort of respect and love yourself. So, i think, again just being conscious of these things, like what you are talking about, racism as a source of stress that is actually being a health issue for a lot of black people, a lot of people whove, comb black people of color women and men, i need to acknowledge these things, see them, talk about them. I think its really, really important. Again, coming at these things that youre talking about, as a writer of fiction. And someone else, i know other people have said this, too. For me, that Self Expression, and why i said im writing from myself, i agree its kind of a lifeline for me. And it becomes like how i work through a lot of tension and grief, probably. And confusion, often, as well. So, yeah, i think people i dont know. I feel like its true. There is trump. There is the pandemic, right . And then all this violence that was actually not new, but somehow, people sought this, its very intense. And its also i think intends to sort of realize what is required for people to acknowledge it, like how much how much, like, opting out, i dont mean acting out, but in your face, sort of suffering, thats required for people to say, oh, look at that you know, because none of that is new. You know . Disparities, in terms of these health issues, there are not new. And violence against African Americans is not new. Its like a convergence of i think just witnessing that and processing that has had an effect, i think, on a lot of black people, a lot of black artists and writers, sort of thinking about the implications of that. I just want to piggyback on that and encourage everybody who was in this conference to pick up a pen and just write every day, because that is part of the healing. Kevin talked about it. And even ibram talked about that. And now, ladee, for a lot of writers, being in a public format and speaking, the community is so important. I just want to thank all of the rioters who are uncomfortable talking. You know, thank you for being here and talking. But that writing pen to paper, theres something very special spiritual about it. And we have so much internal trauma and this speaks from the conditions in this country, and around the globe. And writing it every day, just putting your thoughts on the papers so therapeutic. And i feel, we should go to therapy, too, but i just want to say that. Go ahead, kevin. I want to act, theres no way we would have a Ladee Hubbard or ibram kendi, our tradition includes that we have to do the work. And if you do the work, the movement comes. If you do the work, when something explodes like blm, then people have stuff to return to, that will actually answer questions for them. So they put the work in. I want to stress that, because you know, i do a writers workshop that came out of covid two years ago. And im not even, some of the rioters were looking for, you dont have to get published. But, you havent done the work. You dont even know history. In what i mean . Its, like we need to have this kind of conversation because we actually read. We actually study. We actually travel, and we actually, you know, a latin, a lot of the correct me if im wrong. Even lady is sitting there grappling with herself. Were sitting and wrapping, like, how do i say this. How do i write this story. How to write this intellectual idea . And i just want to stress to people, there is no short cut to this, because you dont want to create work thats action, actually going to look, this decade is the 100th anniversary of the renaissance. This is the reason we still talk about all those rioters, because they created a body of work that stood the test of time. Ladee and ibram our work will how we can build on this. As ibram, said and ladee said as well, there is nothing that were doing is new. Whats new is that we are remixing it for these times. We are using language for these times. We didnt say anti racism in 19 80s. We just said, you know these white folks are mixed up. A genius is putting a term on it putting a term on, its something that people can latch onto like, oh, this is the work that i need to do. Thats the genius. Of it. Listen in the chat says, kevin, which one of your ancestors got you fired up . I want to answer that for. Lisa l right trin kevin has been likd his ancestors have always fired him up. I believe in peace and love. This is a safe space to express views and perspective. But how do we create safe spaces in our communities bring our generations to expect their views regarding racism in america . Where is their safe space. Abram . I mean, i think that this is an incredibly important question, because many young people do not feel comfortable sharing with their parents, you know, sharing with the community. So i need to say very concisely that i would encourage you to urge a young person to create that space and for them to have that space for themselves. So we dont necessarily need to be there. We can, sort of urge them, maybe provide them with books to consider. I think it will actually be saved, safe, if they are there, grappling with each other and were sort of guiding them from the archive. But this is critically important. I did not have this type of safe space, and i wish i do. You just gave me an inspiration. There will be an offshoot of newbie. Im gonna announce this today. Just for young people just because of this question we are going to do a young version of nubia. So thank you for that. Unless somebody else wants to jump in. Kevin, i invite you to participate. Definitely, im there. Love it. Last question, great jones. Hi, great zone. Love how this high grade jones. I love this conversation of exploring blackness as a humanness to fully manifest as a leading global perspective . You gave the Ketanji Brown jackson site, side. You know what i like . Theres thoughtfulness. You talk to many of these really issues solved, a lot of circular conversations. This is one of the most thoughtful panels ive moderated and been on and been a part of, because it is so thoughtful. You guys are actually contemplating the questions in a way, how to free us. Quote, sanchez, how does it for yes . How does it three us . How does it free us . I think that and i say this a lot in my speeches theyre six areas where black people need to be empowered to talk my advice to humanity, its politically. We need to talk about that, how any of us are affected by this system, and how it affects us physically . And i think theyre still six areas. Im not gonna bend from that spiritual, culturally, economically, physical health, Mental Health. I fear feel our Development Needs to be holistic. There is a reason why black people have been so centered even in the center of oppression. Look at the African Students who are leaving ukraine. You can go anywhere in the world where africa doesnt come up. But i think that, you know, some of us, and i believe its people like ladee, ibram, and karen, and dr. Green you know we have so much ideas. No one has all the answers, but i think if we begin to piece it together, we cant compete with each other. Like, im not interested in you know, intellectual conversations. Im interested in people, its ridiculous people who contributed to the ideas of what is to navigate our blackness under oppression. You know . And i think this has to be the case now. And i just think that sometimes we need to pause. All the noise that we just heard for the last week is symptomatic of the noise that weve been dealing with because of the explosion of this thing, cell phones, social media. You know, we need to get off line, and just really have some conversations. Ive been trying to get on the phone with people and asking, can we have a conversation about what just witnessed at the oscars, and why we see these conversations about Ketanji Brown jackson . What can we do here. I think thats what got to be. Theres gonna be some sort of covert effort. Otherwise were gonna be constantly in crisis mode, constantly in crisis mode reacting to stuff. Reacting to the slap, reacting to what happened to ketanji. Im tired of reacting, you all. Im tired of being in crisis mode. You dont win when you are in crisis mode. When you are in crisis mode, all you do is what weve been doing for 400 plus years, which is just surviving. I dont want to merely survive, you know, Sister Soldier why would you call college with, black people, do you want to win . Not survive, but you actually want to win . And winning means that you actually have a plan. You have to have a plan. You have to have a plan. And what does that plan look like . I think it needs to be holistic. How do we take care of ourselves . How do we heal so that we can move forward . And i guarantee you, if we do our work, it will actually impact other people because they see how we are moving, because as we all know, which was engineered by black people, the Gay Liberation movement, inspired the i mean black people not that we are better than anybody else. But what weve gone through, historically, in this country, on this planet has inspired a lot of people, even if i was in places in wales for speeches, or japan for speech, is about us in america. They would share with me, literally, how we inspire them, and they dont even realize how weve inspired the planet because we couldve seen the degradation that black people have gone through. I dont believe in the olympics oppression, but i also ask the question, respectfully, whether the people have gone through what weve gone through in the last hundred years, 400 years. Its been profound. We are a medical. We need to understand that you are a miracle. Thats our jeans. Thats our excellence. Which i believe that whats been demanded of us now more than ever this with the plan particulates we see all the stuff crumbling around us. People realize something is profoundly wrong. I believe in a way that we never seen before nor cases. Nobody knows my name. I think everybody is gonna know our names on this is over. Let me say thank you. And ibram kendi, Ladee Hubbard, join us in something before . Okay, we have to hand it off to mow. Kevin powell, you can get everybodys books at aalb c. Com cbl. Doctor kendi, were gonna see. You and Ladee Hubbard, keep riding, keep riding, keep right. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure. Thank you all. Thank you ibram and ladee. Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure. And now to the great mo beasley