Transcripts For CSPAN3 Aspen Institute Discussion Focuses On Rural Economies And Innovation 20170214

Lunchtime dialogue series. I want to thank the people in the rook in washington, d. C. As well those Live Streaming and those watching on cspan 3. Im i wonder how many there are. Im janet, im director of the group. What we do we do a lot of work in the country quipping local leaders to build prosperous region. Since 1985, aspen as focus its work in rural. Through our experience we have learned full well that Rural America is not fly over country. Rural america is live in, start a business in and start a family in country. So recent media headlines have focus nation acute rural challenges, inadequate job student, infrastructure challenge, Community Health crises and more. Those are real but a deeper understanding reveals important picture of innovation and using local are source to turn challenges into opportunity. We want to highlight stories of innovation that are build on local assets from three different parts of Rural America. We are joined today by the people you see here. Bureau business entrepreneur that partner with them and are deeply engaged in building rural urban connection. I want to introduce rob riley. He going to tell you what that group is. Rob. [ applause ] thank all for joining us today. Im rob riley. President of the center. Northern new england up state new york. Our work over the past 20 years has focused on helping local communities to transition a Rural Economy that is was dominated by one industry pulp and paper. That capitalized on resource base. Secondly, 2015, on the ver ran da of the hotel anyone been there . Thank you. We like you to come back. The idea of the rural group was born. It was clear there was a need to focus interest and development on Rural Development. We were tired by the story line that janet need of economic distress that dominated rural and wanted to create a new rural one that positioned rural as National Asset that it is and innovation to unleash potential opportunity. With the Aspen Institute Strategy Group and u. S. Endowment we recruited a group of rural innovator to meet for a year to provide expert advise to accelerate our work, troubleshoot strategies can learn together. We are helping to inspire to reconsider americas rural opportunity. The Innovation Group identified on your hand out have invested time and Energy Balance hard work they do back at home, raising up innovator practices to help shape rural opportunity. I want it say, on a sent mental tone, this is a personal work for many of us. I grow up working on family farm. I cut my teeth in fields picking stones, working in the forest, o and wondering what the family is for my future is for my family. Thank you for being here. Janet. [ applause ] thank you, rob. We want to thank our group aspen, these include northern forest center, forestry, lower also includes every member of the murl Innovation Group all of who have contributed time and resources to the effort. If you want to share your shouts or have questions and your not in the room, you can use rural innovation. You can see it. So if if you have a question and your not in the room thats what you use to get the question. When we have a question and a section well get your questions there. To share your stories, we would lover you to share your store. Visit us at as daunt em daut rural. Rewere talking what agentive to use. We were host inside story which aalg algia zeer newspaper. So ray, here is your chance to talk with innovators from our rural nation. Thank you, very much. I want to [ applause ] i want to apologize at out set for the stereotype kal thinking that went into this who else would you envied to do this but purr tory can guy this is a topic of vital importance to me as well as to the country, so im happy to be here. There are few that are as vast and widening through that and metropolitan countries and rural counties. I think the hardest of hardcore urban night would agree they need to be coherent place to provide for themselves and the people who make their homes there. School systems need to be funding, roads, need to be maintain, they are places of accumulated capital that immediate to be maintained. For that to people need another microphone. For that to happen, people need to be able to thrive in those place. As we heard, those are great ideas working in rural county and they are represented by my guests here today. To kick us off, were start with Appalachian Partnership for economic growth. Thank you. We are the third of ohio that people never think about. About 18,000 scare miles of resource resources. Our population the way you think about appalachian population one that struggle and immigrants as well as very substantial and expanding ammish population. We have been focused on resource and manufacturing thats true today. We have gone through period where our tem bar, our clay, today is the day where our natural gas continues to play a huge role ask we are seeing resur resurge in timber industry. Artist san who are trying to cope with erosion in the job and we are bedwiginning see a rebir. And resurgent with products industry. Our fine appalachian hardwood we grow which because of some economic displacement in the Great Recession we came through are no longer used in the region. 80 are exported in lowest form. Mike workman from contracks is leader from the group is taking that on and driving that back into the communities through the force of those products. Mike. Thank you, john. Thank you for being here. This is a 20year story that hard to tell in five minute but ill do the best i can. I work for a furniture manufacture for 20 years. In 1994, the company was sold by our Investment Banking firm who owned us to Regional Bank in cincinnati. The reason they bout us was get a seat but they were not interesting in manufacturing had nothing to do with it. After 1995 they closed factory and put 160 workers on the street without jobs of the after thinking about it, i decided that i would start my business this time around that was in 1996. I partner and i purchased from form former factory and started manufacturing stools. We hired three employees from the previous employers and we went into stool production previous. It was easy business. It wasnt a lot to get along with this kind of product. From 1997 to 2002 we concentrated on stool production. In 2003, i got a call from gentleman by the name of chuck williams. And i had gotten to know him over the years i have been in business. He asked me workman, what are you doing . I said we are making stools for you, i got my feet on the desing, live is good. We are shipping these to you every week. He said i want some tables. I said, chuck, we dont do tables we do stool. He says youre not hearing me. I want tables and i want you to do them. So i said okay. Give me a couple of weeks and let me think about this. So i knew a lot of people in the industry, and i went through my list of people in ap laborer if they would be interested in making furniture for me. They said yes, we would be interesting in doing that. During the between 2005 and 2009 we networked 20 factories in the Appalachian Region to do kus custom furniture. In 2010 i got a call, from he asked if i would go to ammish country and help four families find their way in design, marketing, sales that kind of thing. They were not interesting in that. They were interesting in manufacturing furniture. So we i gave them some tips. I steered them on the right course. And he asked me on the way home, what did you think. I said, i see a big opportunity here that i think what you should do is network these people and brand there chi ki ta banana and he said why dont you do it. So thats what happened. That was a catalyst. So he setup a meeting with the department of development. We received some grant money to vet this idea of networking and we were looking at what model are we going to use it. How are we going to organize this . We decided to organize it has a hub and spoke system and its been operating since 2011. In the last six years annual revenue has grown about 15 . Increase sale by 2 million. We have impacted 300 incumbent workers and created a hundred kn new jobs from this effort. I think the story that mike tells has a come of telling folks. It was entrepreneurial spirit that made this work. Second, additional money was required. State of ohio helped pay for pulling the plan to pull together the companies. Theres been additional manufacturing support that has helped with workforce training. There are one hundred new workers. Someone had to train them. Manufacturing extension helped with that. We have Development Labor of funds to help with skill upgrades. Going forward, this was founded based on principal of mikest work to drive more value in the cluster is among set of cluster they support in aerospace and advanced energy. But its working and drive williing more value in the region. Thank you. Its an example to be immulelated. From ohio well move to the state of oregon. Were hear from Hill Christoffersen from resources. Our story is different. It addresses the challenge of Forest Restoration across the rural west. The innovation were going to talk about came from less than 50,000 people. More than 50 of the this land base false been the National Forest. Our communities in that area have been tied to the lands. Natural human capital. There may not be many of us but theres a wealth of enduring work commitment and commitment to lance stewardship. The forest wood sector used to be highest in the region providing high wage and private health insurance. Most of that was lost when the mill shutdown. Profound impact ripple across the community, schools laid off teachers and programs, the hospital struggled, but there is not just another story of a mill closure its about decline of u. S. Forest Service Funding as well decline condition and function of our forest. In 1995, fire made up 16 of the budget. Last year consumed over 50 . 1. 3 billion spent building fighting fire. Some costs exceeded 1 an hour. Left unchecked the situation worsened. Those ever increasing fires of coming across to the rest of the agencies programs, the restoration work needed today reduce risk of fire is cut as well as protection of water sheds, wildlife, other slew of programs that deliver value to the american public. Our innovation responds to the challenges. Its a new Business Model that converts into new jobs. It creates new market to help pay for the cost of restoration and reduce forest fires. Its an example of Rural Development opportunity overed by renewed investment in stewardship. To give that story, he and wife are coowners of biomass resources. Nils and i have been working on this for over ten years. Seven years ago jessica and i moved here to start this business to start addressing the challenges that nils spoke about. So one of the question we were asked was what capitalized our innovation. It was two things. Changing forest conditions and need to pay for that rest store rati restoration to get it done. There was ecological need as well economical need. Land then as we started to address that problem, another problem comes into play is that what do you do with a broad range of material. Youre restoring the forest, removing disease timber, many speescy, trying to get the forest back. Its a wide range of material and its not just one product to fix that. As we started to look at how do we innovate around this problem, part of the challenge was how do we convert this to lek tr so we started to look at big solutions. But none of them were getting it done. We needed to be able to have smaller value added products. So thats where our business and innovation started. Is we looked at opportunities to be able to take a mixed basket of wood and have multiple valueadded products. I saw lots of examples. There are mills taking products and making agriculture products. FireWood Products, theres some small saw mills do it, taking some of the material taking timber. None of those were addressing the bigger issue of combining them all together. So our innovation is looking at it and not going at if from an economy of scale but what we call economy of integration. One of the benefits of ben grags, reducing cost, avoiding r rep kags costs. Having all the equipment to do, you have replicated infrastructure costs. Increasing Revenue Streams by having multiple products seasonality, some of the markets, so we wanted to have an integrated facility to take care of those things. In 2007 we started pulled we start business buying residual that nils organization started with grant funding. So we started taking their residuals to make meet senses. There was a wide range of products we needed. So we worked with the county to purchase the last existing mill sig site after it closed. We take in material, mixed material, so reducing cost of the wood, take in mixed restoration material. We have five valueadded products now. The material is never handled until its in one of those five finished products. So we sort it out. We are lucky enough to have original mill. So for agriculture markets, we make bumble firewood. Where we produce hot water thats used to create electric tristy where where treat firewood and sell it across the west from our facility. We are using every bit of the product. Thats the key is being able to integrate to create efficiency and unitize all of our materials. So in seven years we created 25 years in town of less than one thousand people. We developed markets driving the restoration. The first five years we were there, the Forest Service was able to put up two projects in the area. In the last 18 months they put up six. The market is make the incentive to get the restoration done. So were creating more jobs beyond our facility in land stewardship and forest based jobs which support others in the community. The unique outcome is Publicprivate Partnership and the community recognized they needed entrepreneur. We were that. We were dedicated to make it work. So we what we done, the community has stepped up, resources have stepped up to be able to help us to make sure we are there to have the support we need and in turn we have given ownership in our company to allow resources to recognize the importance of their support in our venture. So it was a unique situation. Thank you schmidt. Bernie mazyck is with us. Bernie. Thank you. Welcome. I bring you greetings from warmer climate where there are smiling places and beautiful places. South carolina is a great place to be. We are urban and rural areas that slight difference. Unemployment rate is 12 which is twice that of the more developed and urbanize county. Our state, three most prosperous county is home to 40 of the states bank deposits. What that translates into is thats where capital resides. Whereas the Rural Communities, the distressed is home to 4 of the states bank deposits. At the same time South Carolina is rich in land assets. Over 65 of our state is considered rural as far as land mass. Some say thats a challenge but we see that as a great opportunity and innovation. One area that i would like to talk about is Allen Dale County. If you live in South Carolina often time whether you want to see and hear about the distressed conditions you talk about Allen Dale County. Unemployment rate is 10 . Population wise its a little over 9,000, 9,0433 individuals. Allendale county is seen as a place where educational challenges exists. Its rich in Natural Resources and Cultural Assets. The economic drivers are forest try and agriculture. Unfortunately, allendale is separated because of how transportation aligns. At one time it was an area where it could survive because it was a cut through between savannah and a lot of urbanize areas. The building the interstates that by passed the county it fell into economic hardship. The major areas of opportunities that we see there in Allendale County. As a i said early, its abundant in Natural Resource and opportunity to potentials that exists there. A study produce one other thing ill say its majority africanamerican county. 73 , 25 europe american. Recently university of South Carolina produce a study that we hope would be generated for sometime. It look ad tourist. It shows that africanamerican tourism in 2. 4 billion industry. Just in africanamerican tourism in the state. When you look at Cultural Assets the nature resource that exists throughout the state we see theres opportunity for cultivating that. I would like to move to the organization in Allendale County. You have would to imagine, he is he a representative. Its a Certified Community corporation was created by the community because the community itself recognized they had resources they want to cultivate. They want to maxize potential that exists in their county. What happened the state also recognized that a lot of our distress communities had resources but without capital they could not cultivate and receive investments in the resource. So they created economic tax credit and that tax credit insensitivize as long as theres Corporation Institution in that area. And the county alive is Certified Organization. Its done by state department of commerce. Any investment, equity or debt that is invested in one of the Certified Organization that individual, bank or Insurance Company who makes that investment gets 33 tax credit, state tax credit on their investment. What that has been able to drive investment, private investment in some of our more distressed community. What Allen Dale County alive was able to use that tax credit to secure property and buildings that are enabling them to ad vens Affordable Housing development as well cultural tourism. Through cdfi thats exist in the state, those have been able to attract private capital and allowing them to lend capital to some of the more distressed area. They received 61,000 loan to advance their work. In South Carolina what our state policy makers have recognized is the value of investing in rural and distressed individuals, banks, that have also invested in these markets using the tax credit as a mean to do that and if but for the tax credit those investments would not flow into those markets. To date the Tax Credit Program has directed over 15 million into these rural and distressed communities throughout the state, most of whom are rural and economically challenged communities throughout South Carolina. Now the tax credits have been exhausted. And we are engaged with our legislature now to up the ante. So were in discussions with them of increasing the tax credit from 33 to 100 . The current Tax Credit Program has an annual cap of 1 million, we are working with our state legislature to increase that to 5 million annually. Eventually we would like that to be a permanent tool within the state and thats what our conversations are underway currently. Weve received calls from investors, bankers who are really interested in receiving that tax incentive in order for them to target investment in distressed areas. So now that the tax credit, of course, is exhausted, were getting more calls than ever because this is a unique tool that is enabling us to channel capital into economically challenged areas throughout our state. And Allendale County is one of those that is receiving private capital whereby they would not have received it before. Bernie mazyck, thanks a lot. [ applause ] were going to be taking your questions in just a short time. But were going to keep the conversation up here a little longer. Im glad you ended, bernie, with the tax incentive program. It certainly makes sense on its face. Can you envision a time when Allendale County will attract that kind of investment without the tax credit where the visibility of capital going there is selfevident and doesnt need the spur of a tax credit . Oftentimes investors are not going to be drawn to an area where they cannot immediately see a return on their investment. So what the tax credit does is it brings their attention to an area and gives them the opportunity to see what the Investment Opportunities exist there. Thats why a Certified Organization is based or serves that particular county so that they can package the asset there and put them in a package that an investor can see the return on their investment as well they get a tangible financial return from the state, but they could also get a monetary return from the investment. It is going to be below market, it is going to be Patient Capital that goes into the product, but theyre going to receive what we call a triple bottom line. Theyre going to receive a return from the state. Depending on their investment, they may receive a return from the project. And they will also play a role in moving the economy forward in that local market. If im sitting in columbia with my green eye shade on, do the numbers work . If South Carolina has foregone a certain amount of tax revenue, can i make a case for foregoing that revenue in money i dont have to spend for various kind of subsidies, social welfare payments, emergency aid to the people of that distressed part of the state . Sure. Because already the Tax Credit Program has proven to have a 51 leverage average. Sometimes that average is higher in some of the markets and a little lower in others. But on average a 51 leverage you are also creating jobs in that local market and providing return to the state. So yeah, the department of revenue with the green eye shades, theyre measuring that as well. And theyre seeing when they see that return on the investment, more importantly the legislature sees that return on the investment. And now theyre happy to forgo that potential revenue, realizing theyre getting more revenue on the other side. That also includes the local tax base which helps with funding local schools also. Sitting here as we are in Dupont Circle in washington d. C. We are just a short stroll from they could make your life a shortterm, the near term, a little easier . A little harder . The u. S. Forest service, are there really easy fixes that the relationship with both your own State Governments and the federal government are missing . Is it a low hanging fruit that really is kind of easily picked that is being missed right now . Thats certainly true. When you begin looking at the Economic Opportunities across Rural America there are many, many great opportunities that we miss simply because we dont have the initial investment of resources necessary to move to a state where they can sustain themselves. Weve seen this a good example for us in eastern ohio is is in the area of infrastructure. We have Many Companies that are looking at globally where it makes the most sense for them to locate an operation. And eastern ohio is extremely competitive as a geographic location, but we have a shortage of infrastructure to support that. So though well and by infrastructure you mean . Water, sewer, Building Sites that are capable of bearing plants. So in our region, if its flat enough to build on its likely a brown field. Its been built on before. And on a strip mine, an underground coal mine or in a landslide area. So we have billions set in trust funds for strip mining, and theres a proposal which could move some of that money out but prioritize it for some sites that have the most Economical Development potential. That linkage between that Economic Opportunity and that fund can create a situation that basically fixes the problem we have of not having property available when Companies Come calling, wanting to create jobs in our community. David, you reinhabited a closed mill. That sounds like a perfect all around win. Yes. Revitalizing already existing capital. Yes. And there is a lot of it i know across the west there is. Particularly sawmills in our Forest Industries which has obviously suffered especially in some of our Rural National forest dependent communities over the last 20 years. So those sites are available. And the help to get on to them is really important. Our county, for example, stepped up and bought the old mill site in our community and leased it to us with the agreement that we would purchase it back from them over time. We got a fiveyear leaseback option and we were able to buy the county back from the county by getting some new market tax credit lending within 18 months. So the county recognized that for us to create jobs and grow our business in the community, we neednt be focused on infrastructure. We needed to focus on our processes to be able to create those jobs. So they stepped up and filled the gap. We were able to buy it back. But it was a perfect example of a Publicprivate Partnership to get that infrastructure into the hands of businesses without it becoming cumbersome. Are there operability problems . Are there ways in washington and in our own states where it doesnt line or dont lie up easily or could line up better . I think theres one the Community Block program that were involved with for entitlement areas usually the urbanized areas the local government is able to design those very well for the local markets. But nonentitlement areas those moneys go to the state and the state will design a master plan for that. It oftentimes the state master plan does not align with some of our rural, local rural markets. So we really we want to see the cbg guidelines and directions to the state to be able to be a little bit more sensitive to what the needs are in the local market. We definitely support water and sewer projects, but there are also entrepreneurial opportunities that can be utilized and can be gleaned from using that program, as well as innovative programs and activities around youth entrepreneurship, work development. If we can get the cbg program to be a little bit more directive as far as getting our State Government to do that. Whats the end game . Are we trying to provide a maintenance dose of Economic Development to rural counties, just to sort of keep them moving forward and keep them alive and keep them funded . Or are you trying to create places where people will move to. Instead of just taking care of the people that are already there, are you looking to something n something more ambitious than that . I spent 20 years working in a minnesota region. Today its about 215,000 people. And the reason for that is a focused 20year effort to rebuild the local economy from the ground up, using local resources. It turned around the migration pattern. It created more vibrant communities. It defied all of the expert predictions about continued rural decline. It is possible. There are examples where its possible. It takes some flexible resource, driven by a local vision of the path forward to make it happen. But it is very doable. I have a point there too. Sure. The really important thing here as far as im concerned as an entrepreneur is to provide the opportunity for people to stay in their communities. So many times people have to move and leave the communities behind. And you see erosion of the tax base, erosion of the infrastructure, all of those disastrous things start to happen. So by creating opportunities on the market side the way i see things and bringing work to the people, keeping them in their communities, that you not only stabilize their families, but you start to stabilize those communities as well. So if you can find a way to stop the exit of people from these communities, then i think youve gone a long way of rebuilding Rural America. Nils . When we got started in 1996, the goal was to create jobs and create enough opportunities that kids come back to the schools. And that is happening. In 20 years after the mill shut down, for the first time in 20 years, and ive been on the school board for 12, the School Population is growing in the county. And its a real point of pride and excitement within our community. And our community is, there is so much Natural Resource wealth. And as i said before, so much ingenuity and human capital. And people want to work. They dont want a maintenance dose of federal funding and support. They want to work there is tremendous opportunities beyond. Were working with farmers and ranchers across the county, developing microhydro systems and irrigation efficiency programs to create efficiencies in water use and energy use, that improve onfarm incomes and farm values. Were working with contractors in the woods to look at different systems of running their business and diversifying their business. So theyre no longer contractors, but theyre doing a full sweep of restoration work in addition to the timber harvest work. And thats what were trying to build is a stewardship economy. One that is rebuilding soil, rebuilding Forest Health while still creating some of the products that society needs. Whether thats food, fiber or energy. Bernie . And i also see people attracted to a place of areas that have a sense of place. Areas that are clearly you hear the diversity right here. Where a community has a sense of place and a sense of identity, and celebrates that, and then has the ability to attract the resources to grow that in such a way that you can understand the value of that sense of place. Theyre attracted to that area and thereby you can attract folk that align with that sense of place and bring their resources and their talents to that area. So the kinds of tools that we use, whether its federal resource or state resources are all aligned to do that, is to help strengthen that sense of place and grow it so others will be attracted to it as well. Im going to tell you guys a dirty little secret. From the urban side of the divide, its taken as an article of faith that because of the way our politics are structured, rural areas have disproportionate pull in the national dialogue. If you look at the United States senate there is the state of california with 40 Million People and the 17 nearest states have 41 Million People, and, of course, 17 times as many United States senators. How come politics and the way state legislatures and the National Legislatures are structured havent been able to champion some of the interests that we have heard discussed in this conversation so far . Yeah. I think the checks and balances that are built into our political system. So on the one hand you might think that with a majority of americas population being urban, that majority of the power would be there. And certainly if you look at the house of representatives, thats the case. If you turn that around and look at the senate, the idea was to in having that senate that was based on states versus based on population was to avoid what i believe was talked about in the federalist papers as a tyranny of the majority. So on the one hand, you have geography being the defining factor for power. On the other hand, population, the balance between the two should lead to more balance in american affairs. And generally it probably is the reason that much of Rural America hasnt been abandoned altogether. How come we have held on to so many counties in america that have been depopulating, that are adjacent to depopulating counties, where they might very profitably combine their sheriff departments, court systems, county jails, school systems, and yet they hang on as revenue centers, as centers of employment. Might you guys be helping your own cause with a rationalization of rural government across the country . Well, a lot of these counties have were developed for political reasons, and i know in South Carolina they have such a strong sense of identity that they dont do not want to lose that sense of identity. Now, what we have attempted to do in South Carolina is operate on a more regional approach where counties are working together. But those lines and those jurisdictions still exist. And, yes, you still have to have more than one fire department, more than one sheriffs department. But there are there are the beginning of economies of scale, where theyre beginning to collaborate more. A lot of it is youre touching the third rail, thats about who i am, and if you want a subsidy, i think we got to touch the third rail. Another point to that too, we do work on a regional basis from my seat. And from what we do. It is not just a county effort here. And we dont really have the time, nor do we have the interest. I personally dont have the interest in fighting political battles to get the economics done in our area. So for that reason, we go straight to the core of the problem, we look at ways to solve it, on a regional scale, and actually the things that were doing, the model that we have built and the spokessystem actually is transparent and transferrable. Ive talked to people at the federal level about taking this idea to the rest of appalachia and other Craft Industries like clay, like glass and leather and fabrics. I think it is starting to happen in North Carolina now in the fabric industry as i understand it. So this is not a county by county effort. It is a regional effort and it is a huge, wide swath of the region, were talking about 13 states here in america. And frankly, ray, i dont know a rural county in america that does it all on its own. Almost every rural county is collaborating with a nearby county. Almost every rural city is collaborating with nearby rural cities in order to make in order to bring the services that they need in order to get things done. Can we get can or should we get rid of those old political units that were based on how far buggy can travel in one day . Im not able to fight that battle. That said, when we work on Economic Development in eastern ohio, i critically need Global Partners that understand the geography, understand the entrepreneurs, understand the Building Sites, can work on getting the infrastructure in place. That said, if youre in a town of 500 people or 5,000 people in appalachian, ohio, you cant effectively market that place to, say, a business in the Wood Products industry in the European Union that is looking at a location closer to their source of hard wood supplies to operate. So we work on a hub and spoke basis, even in Economic Development to get job done. It is not like were sitting there in our castles and barring the doors. Were already collaborating and innovating. Had we been able to do that on every level, is every unit of government in Rural America rational, no, but i would say the same thing about every metropolitan area in america. Im sure youve been thinking of your brief, direct and elegantly crafted questions. And we will move on to questions from the audience now. And your hand shot up right away, secretary. Former kansas senator and secretary of agriculture, dan glickman. Well, thank you. It is a great panel and the entrepreneurship and spirit of local development is just amazing. And i would just one comment and then a couple of questions. The comment is is that one of the problems that happened with Rural America is largely Rural America and policy affecting Rural America up until 1950 was strictly agricultural, and maybe until 1960. And the bulk of that agriculture was the commodity crops, wheat, corn, cotton, rice and soybeans. Timber was a little bit different, but it was viewed as a crop. And agriculture has changed so dramatically and depopulated because of production increases and productivity and other kinds of things that were left with a deep populated area, but the programs were designed for an area populated by farmers. And now it is just much different than it used to be. Thats the challenge, ray, as to making these political decisions. But were probably not going to change the constitution in the shortterm. So maybe president might want to change it, but the rest of us probably dont want to change it. But i would ask you how much you talked about the Forest Service, state tax credits, the federal government pumps a huge amount of money into Rural America. Its not in fact, one could argue its almost disproportionate through water and sue grants, business and industry loans and infrastructure. It is very, very significant the amount of dollars that comes in. Some goes directly states. Some administered by the usda. Most of it is usda. A little bit sba. Most usda. Does it work . Does it help you do what you want to do . Does it need to be spent in a different way . There are billions and billions of dollars every year flowing into Rural America from uncle sam. Is it being spent the right way . Does it help you . The short answer to all of that is yes. In some ways the federal dollars do work, they do help. As i said earlier, sometimes we need directed in a more strategic way. And it needs to be directed with more voice from the local community. And you may say that exists, but we really need to have that push down even further. It also needs to be more accessible. Directly to organizations that are closer to the ground. You might say local government is that entity. A lot of times local government many some of the Rural Communities and our small towns dont have the capacity to access those dollars. So that requires either some Capacity Building or structuring the dollars in such a way that local community, that local town can access them and really put them to work. So, yes, we have many that are working very well. We still have some ways in which we need to structure federal programs so that they can go directly into the local community, utilize vital local units of government, nonprofits, hospitals and so forth that is going to be a more efficient and effective way of mobilizing local assets and capacities. I can only speak to the sector that im in, and as nils mentioned earlier, the disproportionate amount of money that is being spent on fighting fires. And it absolutely dwarves the amount of money were putting into restoration that can mitigate some of that. And being a business that is in the business of that, we are continually frustrated by seeing dollars flowing to stop fire or fight fires when were on the ground trying to actually stop them and create Forest Health. I think one of the things we see with a lot of programs, and i know the reasoning why, but sometimes we try to get big curealls. We want to have huge impacts. Lets focus on one big thing that gets big impact. I see it in our industry, i was talking earlier about biomass ethanol, for example. We want to fix the forest in one felled swoop. Lets invest tens of millions of dollars in research, on one thing we think can fix it all. When were doing small dispersed solutions that are working, that in the 15 years that were spending trying to find the one big thing, we can be doing many disperse things that actually are making big impacts. Yes, good afternoon. My name is jose from the Manufacturing Extension Partnership program. Im the southeast manager. First, let me congratulate the Aspen Institute and panelists for having a great conference without power point. It is very refreshing. Moving along, i got a question actually for dave schmidt. Im very interested in the you probably answered now, but im very interested in the initiative by doe and usda. And since you know biomass, thats a phrase i use, you already talked about the ethanols and all these, i might have looked at it for the next steps since you have already handled it. What are challenges that you see right now to move to the next level . Because im looking into that for the southeast, thinking, you know, we know biomass in the southeast. What will need to happen to be able to start looking into that new Economic Development . Yeah. Eastern oregon is about it is about little bit over 50 of the area is federal land, but over 70 of the forest falls within our National Forest. And the capacity has declined substantially over the last 20 years to manage that. And in Wallowa County alone, there is about 112,000 acres that broad Scientific Consensus says is in need of restoration and were accomplishing about 1500 acres a year. And that has impacted everything that david and i have done because some of the solutions that look good on paper when youre just crunching numbers become incredibly difficult to realize when you think about the uncertainty of the feed stock supply, the availability of supply coming off the federal land. So trying to figure out a way to achieve more consistency and continuity in the pace and scale of restoration on federal land, trying to get the country to accept that this is important work, that it is important to the health of the National Forest, and to reinvestment and all the other things that the National Forest does for the public, but it adds that extra benefit for our communities of jobs. And income. That is a key constraint to us. The other thing is just because we operate in, you know, Wallowa County has 2. 2 people per square mile. We operated in a very dispersed geography with very long haul distances and steep mountainous and canyon terrain. So the cost to get fuel to a site often exceeds some of these big scale solutions. David mentioned that we looked at 5 and 10 megawatt plants, power plants. And we could have easily fed that. That was within the scale of our feed stock, but they needed fuel to come in at 8 a green ton. At that time, we would not be able to deliver it for less than 25. Right. So those challenge some of the bigger ideas. Using the ruralinnovation, some questions have been coming in and janet has those. Okay. So lets start with this one. How do the rural innovators here think about job quality as part of the Economic Development efforts . Job quality. Great question. Great question. Yeah. John . Well, so, job quality is absolutely critical and we focus on that every day in our work. Most of the tools that we use to help encourage development wont, for instance, invest in anything that creates a job at less than 1. 5 times federal minimum wage. That said thats still a relatively low level. But that said, in my experience, until you begin to soak up your labor surpluses, your job quality will not go up. So once you get to the point where youre approaching 5 unemployment, then you start to see economic pressure to increase the quality of jobs. So it is a bit of a ying and a yang. A company is not going to pay more than the prevailing wage for labor with a particular set of skills in an area. So until you can get your until you get enough volume going to bring that Unemployment Rate down to a point where your workforce begins to be competitive, your wages arent going to go up. Thats roughly 22,000 a year for a full time employment . Right. Can you live on that in eastern ohio . So if you have two people in the family working full time, that will bring you above the federal poverty threshold for a family of four. Not the greatest living, but frankly the cost of living in rural areas is substantially lower 82 the national average. Yeah. Yeah. I think it is a twopart situation. Number one, i would say that investing in our education and in our Entrepreneurial Development in our Rural Communities is a big part of it. Because weve talked about the brain drain. Weve talked about people having to move to urban centers because there is no jobs for them, right . So a lot of people have left. So we need to reinvest in that to get to be able to stay. And that is the other part of it is we have a lot of people that want to stay. Were in communities where people want to stay there. We have a lot of employees that are excited about the jobs we have because theyre in the sector they want to. They want to be working in the forest industry. They want to be able to be outside. They want to be working in that. So being able to create opportunities for them to stay is really important and so investing in that education, but also investing in some quality of jobs, a lot of it is lifestyle too and were creating opportunities for people to work in sectors that they want to be in. And lots of people who want to move back. When we manage to develop a good paying job in our region and the company is worried theyre not going to find somebody with a Technical Skills or professional skill set, there are almost always people from that area who left for opportunity with that skill set that are willing to come back. I think one of the other issues too, ray, rather than throw money at the problem, at the issues, that i see going on all the time from the federal and the state level, i think it would behoove us all to think about what can we do at our local level to make a difference. And sometimes a small pebble can make a lot of waves in a pond. And in our case, we have if we would have listened to the outside world, where im from, we would never have tried even even attempted to create a creative business. Those are in atlanta, in new york city, those are everywhere morgan county, ohio, or other small counties like ours. But weve proven the point that our people are creative. We have to reach in the woods to find them and attract them to our business. But what we have done that we dont need any government help with is we have we have taken away the ceiling on the earnings. So talk about the quality of your job, when you go and do what you want to do, and are paid to your potential, that is a quality that isnt often found and thats what we have been able to do in our rural community. We have we offer even our hourly people in our Creative Office a Profit Sharing bonus. So they share they become part of the organization. I think these are the kinds of efforts, grassroot, and are very simple and they dont need a lot of money thrown at them. It takes leadership and it takes entrepreneurship to make this work. Who is next . Over here. Now its on. Hi. Im rene bryce la porte. Hello, john. Interested to hear from you guys for the jobs that new jobs being created, what kind of educational preparation do folks need to be able to successfully work those jobs . I would like to address that for one second. Educational level, thats thats kind of a soft area here. What is really going on in america is the lack of a work ethic, regardless of your education, and we have lost that somewhere along the line at the family level, at the community level, i dont know at what level. But we found and what we have done in ohio, we have concentrated on working with the amish and Mennonite Community where the work ethic is part of their way of life. And john has helped us create an Educational Program with Washington State college in marietta to do training for people. And our idea here is to take the work ethic element and make it transferrable to the english workforce if possible. We dont know that yet. It is still an experiment. But i think these are the kinds of innovative things at the local level that we can do to make a huge difference and make the pebble make bigger waves. Just a point of clarification, the english are what the amish call the rest of us. I would say that part of it goes back to back to jobs that people enjoy doing. And finding tapping into the things that people like and our Rural Communities, a lot of people are there for reasons. So for us working in Natural Resource, people are there because they want to do that. Jessie is here and she spends a lot of times with our employees. Sometimes i want to be, like, jessie, dont encourage them because we like to keep our good employees. We spend a lot of time with them finding out what do you want to do . What do you want to go to college for . A lot of times in our Rural Communities, kids dont know when they want to do when they get out of school. They need to spend some time figuring out what drives them, what theyre passionate about and identifying that and being able to invest in that. Investing in Workforce Development is an important part for our process. So we do lean manufacturing training and other things to try to find that thing that inspires people to say this is a direction i want to go. I think thats an important piece. And it is also difference between not difference, but education and training. You have education and oven times a person is thinking immediately thats a college or a graduate degree. But its really training. One of the programs we operate is called the individual development account, ida program where individuals can say to acquire an asset, one of the assets is an education. Thats a match savings program. Most of the that go through that program for education, theyre going for training. Some of that is for professional training and barbering, beautician, welding, something that they enjoy. So if you have education and you have training, i think it is also making training and education accessible to persons. Not everyone is aligned to go to college or be in that environment. So as we create training opportunities that are closer to the community, grounded in the community, that aligns with the values and the passion of the people there, i think we wont have an issue where persons cannot find work because theyre not skilled. And i think that also feeds to the work ethic because most persons that we may think have lost the work ethic it because they have not been exposed to what the opportunities are. And so what we try to do is, first of all, affirm them that they have something within them that can produce for themselves, their family and the greater community. And then work with them to find what that is. And then provide the tools so that they can capitalize and maximize that. Bernie, at the outset, you told us that the unemployment in your county was twice the level that it is in the state. To sop up some of that excess labor, where would you train your fire as far as the amount of education, the amount of training you need for these jobs . And once people have some experience, and some skills, are there ladders that allow them to stay in the area . More skilled, better paid work that they can move to over time . Well, some of what is happening in Allendale County is helping persons to understand what resources are there and what potential entrepreneurial opportunities are there. And how they can position themselves to be a participant in that environment. And then bringing the Training Resources to them so that they can transition from the unemployment roles to the employment roles. So it takes some time. Because my state is aligned very strongly on what we call smokestack chasing. A lot of the Economic Development agenda is focused on that. Were trying to help right side that a little bit so theyll also invest more in Entrepreneurial Development, placebased development, so in those counties thats not going to be able to attract a boeing plane manufacturer, they can generate alternative industry and from that attract a manufacturer that aligns with the Natural Resources that are there. Next. In case there say this is a segue question, there was a question from california, r and m consulting, how are you reaching out to youth to cultivate a future generation willing to work and live in rural . Bernie you began to answer that, but is there anything else the rest of you are doing . Well, our resources have been running research and Education Program with broad outreach both within the k12 programs, because most of the schools in Eastern Oregon are on a fourday school week. We started offering a outdoor Natural Resource program on friday and extended that to universities and create a variety of internships as well. But i think this idea of continual Workforce Development and training is the more important one. Wallowa county has its has the highest rate of selfemployment in the state of oregon. And people there are used to trying to create something on their own. One of the things that you hear over and over again is that the Younger Generation has less direct experience than preceding one that grew up on a farm or grew up with a family that was working in the woods and using these as tools as key tools to work and trying to figure out how we create those opportunities again so there is the ability to do use your head and use your hands to figure out the best way to do to build a trail, build a fence, to cut a tree, skin a tree, whatever it is that were losing some of that, and we want to create more opportunities for kids to do that. So some of the older generation, were actually talking about on the largest abandoned mill site, beginning to create an applied Training Area for kids to get more involved in that, and also talking with the vets, the returning vets to be involved in some of this work that could immediately go back to work doing a whole range of things on the National Forest system, starting with simple things like rebuilding trails to doing some of the thinning work that we talked about earlier. And then in our case, with the certification training program, that jonna worked on with our local community college, the idea here is to have a Board Certified at the state Level Program that can articulate. So we have created 18hour curriculum for job training, and skill training that will articulate if the student wants to go to for an associated degree or beyond that, thats one path. Thats an option for them. If they want to go into the workforce, theyre now prepared to do that. Were creating resources for the and manufacturing for those jobs to be open for them when they come through the school. Thecome through the school. Were supporting that with we created a fill tlop pickal base and community that we can support scholarships and support the educational cost for those students no reason kids in our area have to be on the streets. This is the best antidrug campaign that i can ever think of here that would get them in school, get them trained, get them in the workforce or allow them on for further education. And not abandon them at that point. And not abandon them. One of our initiatives which has been extremely successful, which we call upscale which works with employers to identify people at the lower tiers in their company who can do better, theyre great employees, but thaw dont have the next skill to advance. With the department of labor training grant, we were able for an average of 600 per person help that individual move up into that next skill, which allowed them to be promoted, which also opened their position for a new entry level person. We placed more people with that model than the other ten make it in America Workforce grants combined that were focusing on preemployment training. Its a very costeffective way to meet your skill needs and keep your workforce moving up. Id be happy to talk to you about it. One of the metrics that big city mayors throw at each other when they talk about vitality and job growth and healthy economies is how many immigrants come to my metropolitan area . And if you look at the smsas with the least immigrant inflow, they tend to be some of the least healthy metropolitan areas in the country. Are rural areas in america just out of this conversation . Not even in it when a tremendous share of the people who come to america from other parts of the world are rural people . Well, i have one story, but it kind of encapsulates at least the experience in South Carolina. We recently swore in a new u. S. Secretary to the u. N. , nikki haley. Whos former governor of South Carolina. Who, of course, was born in South Carolina, but her parents were immigrants from india. They moved to a rural area, bamberg, a rural area of South Carolina. And they started an enterprise there. So rural areas is rich for immigrants that have been able to create an opportunity for themselves, a life for themselves and able to grow and prosper. Thats one story that shows the opportunity that exists, which you can aggregate that up with numbers as well. There are many parts of Rural America where there is population growth going on by immigrants. The great plains there are many communities. You can go into communities in rural nebraska that are growing again because of immigrants moving into the communities. You can go into Rural Communities in the southwest that are growing and thriving and doing better because of the immigrants coming up through the americas. But the immigration issue has and the immigration opportunity hasnt bypassed Rural America. It is as much a part of rural narrative as it is urban narrative, just not told as often. So i think we have time for one more question. We have a lot coming in. I had him in the queue. Sorry. We have a lot coming in we wont have time for, but here you go. Thank you. My name is dan. I actually work here in washington with the Appalachian Region commission. I worked with mike way back when in ohio in the 90s and applaud his work and the capital hes been for that part of the state over the years. My question is really kind of simple, and youve all been addressing it to some degree. But obviously, we just completed a very contentious election cycle and we have a new administration, and Rural America was very much behind the new president and what he proposes to do. If you had access to his twitter account and looked at what you knew he was going to say what recommendation would you make to this administration as to what they could do to better help Rural America and to deal with issues and problems in a perhaps more holistic manner . He does go on every day, so he would see it. I mean, again, sitting in far Eastern Oregon, we are desperately hoping that thoughts about infrastructure go beyond traditional infrastructure of roads, bridges, highways, schools and think about Natural Resource capital and the infrastructure that exists across our national our public lands in general that has a deferred maintenance account that exceeds 20 billion and a tremendous amount of opportunity to put people back to work, restoring that infrastructure and that asset that has long served the public. So thats a key piece. The second thing would be to just make sure that as david was getting to before, that were not looking for just nice big splashy investments that get you headlines, but were thinking about how do you package the programs that are the right size and scale with the right flexibility for small Rural Communities across the country. This may counter to the narrative were hearing out there. But for one thing, i would really like to see our administration understand the impact of certain opportunities related to International Trade and the impact thats having in rural areas. I currently have 40 International Companies that are considering the possibility of making an investment that would create jobs in our region. All of them have been on hold since the election because they dont understand the impact of the election on the operating environment. So i would urge our administration and congress to make it clear that Foreign Companies that want to create jobs in america are welcome here and that and the trade barriers that might prevent them from having a successful Business Operation in america arent going to get in the way. I would encourage him or help to inform him that Rural America is very diverse. That there are a variety of groups, ethnic groups and others that live in Rural America that really help to shape who Rural America is. And so with that diversity lies many opportunities and so to think about the diversity and help inform them of the diversity of Rural America and how those Cultural Assets can play a role in promoting Economic Opportunity in our Rural Communities. I would like to i would like to ask the president to not pay so much attention to wall street and main street, but pay more attention to the country roads. Thats where the jobs are being created. And the on the entrepreneurial level. And 70 of new employees in this country are hired by entrepreneurs. I think it would behoove the president to take a look at that and see how he can support more less regulation, more support for Small Businesses in america. And i would one last thing is that it might be counterintuitive, but there is large parts of Rural America that actually are starting to partake in a stewardship economy and really want to have a stewardship economy. They actually care about the land that they live on. And so it is a little bit counterintuitive that we are against regulation and Climate Change and so on when really not all of Rural America wants to be in an extraction economy. There is a lot of Rural America that really would like to be part of the stewardship economy. Good point. Well, im told he watches a lot more cnn than cspan3, but just in case he was watching, thats a good set of messages to end on. One of the most important jobs of moderator is to get off on time and we just did that. Janet . Thank you very much. And [ applause ] i want to thank ray suarez and all our of panelists and youre welcome to chat with them afterwards. If you wish. I saw more hands up, so i know there is some detailed questions some of you have. Just two things, i want to remind you we are actually very actively interested in collecting more stories of rural innovation. So if you have any of those, please do either share them with us via a link at twitter ruralinnovators. Or you can visit us at as. Pn rural. And finally, i want to thank you all for being here, those virtually in the live stream, cspan, as well as in the room, and invite you all back to our front porch for the next segment of americas rural opportunity, which will be on march 17th here. And were going to be focusing on entrepreneurship in Rural America. Thank you very much. [ applause ] the president s nominee for labor secretary goes before the Labor Committee on thursday. His nomination will be live here on cspan starting at 10 00 a. M. Eastern. Cspan, where