Tonight at 8 00 eastern on cspan2. Next, a look at military readiness and increasing terrorism threats, hosted by the center for strategic and international studies. They focused on Chemical Warfare and modernization of the army. The discussion is an hour. All right, thank you, everyone, for sticking around as we made our transition. As i mentioned, were going to roll into the second half of the event, where were going to focus on Army Modernization. And csis is today rolling out a report on Army Modernization called the Army Modernization imperative. A new big five for Army Modernization. And i want to begin by thanking the sponsors of that study, because without sponsors, we dont get to do studies. And this study was sponsored by a combination of support from General Dynamics drs technologies, part of leonardo, and all three, as well. So we want to thank them for their support. Im going to briefly walk through the chief findings and recommendations of the report. Its about 80ish page, but its a pretty quick read. Theres a lot of pictures, so i urge you to go read the whole thing. Im going to hit the highlights, and then were going to bring up our distinguished panel to give us the real scoop on Army Modernization, and how we should think about it. And what we should do with it . And i want to start by saying, with this study, weve always every time weve talked to folks about it, weve had to start by saying, this is not a critique of Army Acquisition. This is a look at, if you start with a premise that the army needs to modernize, how does it develop a strategy for doing that, which it can clearly and forcefully communicate within the army, within the department of defense, and with the congress in order to get the resources to actually carry that out . So thats the focus of this study. Its less procedural and more of a strategic overview. In terms of our findings, because we wanted to set the scene in doing this study, what is the state of Army Modernization today. Skpe with came back with a finding that the armys experiencing a modernization triple whammy and ill get into more detail by what i mean by that in a couple of minutes. The Army Modernization is below its historic level, both on average and during periods when the army is seeking to modernize, because the army, like most of the services go through phases of modernization that represent peaks and valleys, as is the case with the overall Defense Budget. Theres little relief on the way, both in terms of the budget control act discussed both by senator cotton and the limits it puts on defense spending and Army Spending by implication. And in terms of the issues that the armys confronting, such as readiness, that the senator referred to. Even if the army had a robust budget for Army Modernization, the army has very limited options, as of today, because the Technology Effort has been more focused on the early stages and given the level of funding that was available, thats probably appropriate. But there hasnt been a lot of Platform Development or System Development in the army budget in recent years, which we could then seek to modernize the army on a rapid basis. The army was through the drawdown period, sought to minimize harm. And i think they did a pretty good job on that. Again, our study is not a critique of the tough decisions that were made after sequestration to rtrue to salvae some form of Army Modernization. But we believe its clear that they dont leave the army in a position with a ready and obvious path forward. And so work needs to be done to duothat. And weve taken a crack at that. And lastly, one of our findings is that we think that there is not a consensus on priorities for Army Modernization. And well talk a little bit about why that is the case. Let me just talk about this idea of the triple has been picked up in some circles. What do we mean by that . This is not the first time, this draw down that happened because of the budget act and sequestration. Its not the first time the armys duran down its happened in the past. And theres definitely similarities but theres notable differences. The first leg of the triple whammy is that this draw down is larger than previous draw downs. If you look over on the right hand column under total Army Modernization, the draw down was 74 . This is in contract obligation dollar terms. That exceeds relatively robustly previous draw downs. The second leg of the triple whammy though is where most of that extra draw down came from. If you look at the procurement problem on our chart, youre not seeing what im seeing on my paper, excuse me. There it is. Okay, so that righthand column has previous draw downs by ten to 15 . The source of most of that ex session draw down is really the rnd accounts. Decline in procurement was consistent with previous draw downs. The decline on the rnd account was 52 . If you look at the first two draw downs you average them in the first draw downs in the accounts of 22 . The rnd has been preserved during relatively draw downs. The reduction in rnd was the average of the previous two, thats more than twice of the average of the previous two draw downs. The last element of the triple whammy thats on the bottom part of this chart is the state that the army entered this draw down in. And previous draw downs most notable the draw down at the end of the cold war the army was in the process of completing a standard of modernization, the big 5, in the 1980s to which our report title refers was secure. Was in the process of completing securism when the last draw down happened. When this draw down wen into effect, the army was coming off some regrettable program, future combat system, comanche, crew saider theres a list, i wont go through them all in detail. You will not see a substantial build up of new systems in the army. That preseeded the culture draw down. You have a draw down larger than you have in the past and particularly your rnd accounts were drowned down much more substantially than previously. We then wanted to get a sense of wheres Army Modernization today in context of broader modern modernization, so we wen back and looked back Army Modernization funding back to the end of world war ii, sortive in the modern area. We developed, the two dotted lines, the lower lines is the historic level of modernization across that postworld war ii period. The the army was seeking to replenish or regenerate its technology. You had the higher level up and around 35 billion and historical average being here 5 35 billion. And we see where we are today which is 5 billion below the historic modernization, 10 billion below the level during the periods where the modernization was progressing. That is suggesting if the army is seeking to modernize this Technology Today its probe going to require additional funding to make that happen. I want to talk a bit about this issue of the priorities. In order to get funding for Army Modernization you got to be able to go to the congress and also to leadership of d od and say, this is why we need this funding. That means setting priorities about what it is that needs to be modernized. What were just showing here is a list or some of the examples of modernization priorities that have been expressed in recent documents or testimony by the army to congress. The gist of this is that every list is, theres some similarities across list but theyre all different. They have take different, i guess starting points as to what theyre talking about. Aviation as a priority is an important area for prior toization but convey a lot about how youre going to pursue modernization in the aviation world. We think theres a lack of on priorities. Allow me to talk about the gop. That was a big focus of the senator remarks and the eats today for russia challenge and the modernization. When we started this report it was prior to the election controversies and the attack on the election system. But pretty quickly when you look at questions of Army Modernization you do find, i know the chief has testified that russia is a pacing threat. Not necessarily because we expect to go to war with russia, and europe or elsewhere but russian systems are the core systems for most of the adversaries we can get into reform with. Rapid advance of the recent technology of years they invested back when they invested heavily. When oil was high theyve gone into systems that are not just russian systems but they proliferated to others as well, iran certainly in that group. And they have particularly gone after an a2, ad concept. The technology the senator was focused on was a pig part of that. Its being keeping the u. S. , its allies and systems away from the defended area that the russian defenses are defending. In the case of russia thats russian territory. And its sophisticated layer, redid you know dan approach, ar till retire, crews missiles, radars, tanks, its a real sweet capability that they have been developing and deploying and sharing with others, that the u. S. Army is likely to face if it gets drawn into high intensity conflict somewhere in the world. Particularly, focus on noncapabilities like nonElectronic Warfare and cyber, that they have been focused on more than the u. S. Has as we have been involved in the coin channel in the middle east. So i move now to kind of our respondents exhibits. A new big five for the 21 century. How do you express clear priorities that the armys going to meet the challenge that it has in the future and how do you invest and develop a Monetary Program that is going to deliver on those priorities. One of the tricky, subtle arguments that we make on the report is that its much better to talk about this in terms of capabilities and platforms. The previous big five was platforms. A couple of other black hawk, and the apa which he, so five platforms that were going to meet the threats of that day. In todays world i think youre better off talking about capabilities. The reason why is platforms take, depending on who you ask, ten to 10 years, maybe 10 or 20 years, maybe more to develop. Going to congress in 2017 saying, we have an urgent problem, i want you to join me in a Platform Development that in 20 years will give us an answer. Thats a tough case to make. If on the other hand, what youre asking for is we have significant deficit and Electronic Warfare and we have a plan to increase our Electronic Warfare capabilities to meet that, you can show progress on that priority relatively quickly while also developing a longterm plan. And these are the five that recommended, i would say we had two workshops, we talked to a lot of experts, we sent these to the right five but the army will come up with its own and theyre working hard on that. And this idea of thinking of capabilities in terms of platforms, we think its very important enlisting the support that the armys going to need to do its Modernization Program. So, just wrapping up my piece here and well do the discussion. The has represented a clear focus strategy. Make modernization a priority, that is on the chiefs list of priorities but there is this competition with spending on personnel and readiness, and those are important as well. But the army has to really think hard about how to make modernization, we believe a higher priority. Focus on capabilities not platforms. Making Army Acquisition more agile by focusing on revelation, as i mentioned improves capabilities rapidly as we move toward longer term. Making room within your Modernization Program to address emerging opportunities and challenges. And then aligning Human Capital with this modernization strategy and some of our panelist have additional ideas of what you have to do to make this approach work. So without further adieu ill call them up to the stage and we can hear from them. Thank you for joining us today ill introduce the panel and well turn and get their thoughts. To my right is heidi chew, she is currently serving as chairman of the board of robo t north america. She previously worked at raytheon and before that ate hughes. And formally chairman of the air force scientific adviser board. To her right is colonel retired u. S. Army dan roper. Hes director at National Security studies at the association of United States army. Former manager director and author of global counter servantsy. And so his right is doug bush, a former colleague of mine. A former National Security analyst at a usa and a former army officer. So heidi ill start with you, you can start us out. If you could give us some of your thoughts on the strategic approach that you think is most likely to be effective in this period. Absolutely. I think you guys have did a great job in terms of covering the impact of b. C. A. In 2011. I do want to emphasize for a second on what you have said. When you look at the army total from f yrk1015. The army budget has increased on the top one. But the security funding are the a pot decreased by 33 . So Army Modernization cant happen when youre budgets being cut that significantly. I want to emphasize one other thing. The annual c. R. Creates even a bigger turmoil than people realize, because if you cant get the budget on october 1st, youre sitting there waiting. You cant spend, you cant start new program, you cant ramp up production, right. Tremendous turmoil on programs, okay. And during the sequestration, plus the annual c. R. , what the army had to do was stretch out programs, right, restructure them, reduce the procurement quantity buys down to the minimum sustainable rates without breaking annual tie year contracts and then start programs that was planned, orwee terminated. So there was significant turmoil within our basically across every single one of our portfolios. So within the budgeting environment seconding what you said, i actually drew a pyramid, a pyramid chart where we divest all the equipment because we need to save on this cost. We have to reset the equipment so were ready to fight. Well modernize or existing platforms and we will chose carefully what new capability to develop to increase our mobility, lethality and survival ability. Then we will invest in our s p to enable the next generation capability. So that was our strategy in declining budget environment. Looking ahead, it was a great dialogue this morning, i appreciate being here. I will give you my personal perspective, based upon what i see as threats that the army will face, and what i deem the modernization effort has to focus on, okay. We will obviously see cyber attacks, disinformation on social media, that will never stop. Well see jamming over jp s, our radar and our communications systems. Weve seen that and it will continue. So, what are the monitorizations that are required . We need assured pn, position navigation time so were no longer jammed. We need to operate beyond just e. W. E. W. s absolutely critical but we need to be operating in the intersection of an integrated e. Windchill factor and i. O. Because of the the agility of the threats. You dont have time to be pipe system anymore. And we need assured communications, okay. The other type, you guys have talked about this morning is the tremendous proliferation of weapon systems, okay. With increased sophistication, right. We see the r. P. G. S, we see much longer range missiles and brackets, crews missile, advance theater missile. We see an exponent shl growths, performance in surveillance systems. Think about the next generation which will perform attack. Okay. So what do we need to do, i will expand on what you talk about missile integration deference. In my perspective we need a layered integrated active and passive iamd to enable Missile Defense offense. Okay. And its layered in the sense that we have started this program, its all the fpick right, indirect fieldsobriety capability, that is the base tests of rockets, missiles, uavs crews missiles. We need to continue that program, push that forward. The next layer of protection that we have is really plug and play. Our existing pipe system into a which are legacy system into a common fire controlled network. So, the integrated battle command system is going to be critical. Ivc s you guys have heard of that, thats absolute critical. Another leg under that umbrella thats absolutely critical is get a patriot a. E. S. S. A. Which stands for active, electronically scan array. Compared to what we have today, a es a is what we have today, and enable Counter Measures. So those are the stuff that we have in program either we have a Program Record today or we need to get going on. But we also need to add the beha passive capability. Why i say that because active mean your radiating someone with jam you, passive mean youre not radiating. So we need to sintegrate thosin to. Give us a layered integrate capacity. Then i will focus on, because of the proliferation of threats, we have to increase serve vooifr bl. So talent mont on what we need to focus on pushing forward is an integrated aircraft capability a s e, program. To enable us to wrap up the detect, identify and encountering of the threat. It needs to be integrated system because theres no single sensor of single Counter Measure that will counter all threats, okay. On the ground, this is why you see the focus shifting towards a active Protection System for combat vehicles. But beyond just these two systems, we have to think about how we need to see the target further and resolve it better. This is why we need the Third Generation for looking i. R. System. Third generation flare. The other aspect that we need to focus on which is degrade a visual environment. We have to be able to enable operation in all environments, whether its white out, black out, you name it, fog, smoke weve got to operate in that environment. Okay. Increasing lethality. Okay, with longer range, jag ls, joint air to ground missiles. Enabling our apa which he, be able to shoot. All the way up to longer range position fires. This is something our commander has asked for, for years now, okay. And this is really the attack on replacement. And then increasing our mobility. It engine. To improve current engine programs. We currently have a 200 power chad horsepower engine. It will enable us to fly high and hot temperature, okay. The rest is a mobility program, we have Program Record, the j. M. T. V. , the a. N. P. V. , they will all increase the mobility and display our legacy systems. The one thing i did see people talking about, is improving our sense in war, especially in light of the fact we will see adversary that we use chemical and biological weapons. So, therefore we should not put our soldier in harms way, this is where robotics comes in. Put sensors on robotics, let the roboti robotics roll ahead of you to be able to sense and more. So i wen through a lot, i dont want to hog all the time. I think the other thing you talk about in terms of lo gistics, this is where robotics can once again play a huge role in terms of reducing the lo gistics burden on our soldier today. Ill slow down and wrap up with other comments later. Thank you. Dan, youre next with the idea of modernization strategy. Youve had a history of both dealing with and on all of those. So ill let you take your pick and give us your thoughts. I absolutely think small question too, thanks. This report does a good job of framing the context because the risk in developing a strategy is not understanding your operational environment, and what youve done is lay out, by assessing the j. O. Tchl and strategic environment. The way we do modernization, where so critical gaps are and now youre proposing a kang in the ways where the ways is oppose to the big five, the abrams, strikers and so forth, the things that exist, and were familiar with them now, your propose that we character rise is capability. And intellectually that makes sense. If were too narrow when we start well miss the dynamics. Its a little harder to get excited about a capability, even though its essential you have to dig into it and understand the capability gap and say, i need to address Electronic Warfare or address Missile Defense. But underneath that there are systems that people sell, advocate, and attach their identity to that are very important. Going back to the senators comments this morning, and the report also brings it up, i dont think we have a problem with analytics. I dont think we have a problem with the science. We know as much as we can know and we have good plans to address some of those gaps. I think the biggest challenge is the communication on what needs to be done when and what resources do we need to expend on it and why do we how do we help the senators and congressmen make the necessary trade offs with other very important things. I think the armys challenge is more diverse and complicated than saying, oh i need another aircraft carrier. Not that thats a significant thing and wed like to have more, but its it treatmently seven l. The 101 level of the arlingtogu its incredibly complex to articulate a story that encaps late everything you just said because there was a tour of force to everyone that feeds to be done. What happens the person receiving that, thats ultimately signing the check or getting a Program Going act upon that. So the more i look at strategy, the more i find it as, its essential, about strategic communicating and got nothing to do with i. O. Or public affairs. Its communicating priorities, the people that have to act on it from the lowest to the highest level. The army does need to update its strategy. The one thing id say on that is shifting to the meeds. You recommend but the chief of staff in the army is recently testified and have said this many times, readiness is number one is going to stay there until we reach or interim readiness objectives which he expects to take about four years. Thats based on the assumption that theres some level of coherent consistent funding, which is an assumption that fails every single year. So when you trade off readiness versus fore instructor, versus modernization, this audience or community of interest just saying, lets try harder is not going to move the ball down the field, because there are other important tensions. So that doesnt offer an answer but maybe the Strategic Communication thats enabled by topping capabilities helps us topping capabilities also helps us bring in the joint discussion because we dont develop Army Capabilities for the army, we do ultimately provide it to the joint commander and the Coalition Commander and then thinking a little more imaginatively, was eluded to in some of the earlier comments, how are we enabling ally and partner capabilities. How can they close the gaps in areas whether legally or financially we cant do it. But industry can do that, industry gets the little ham strong and processes, maybe through f ms in some capacity. We deliberatery close that gap so thats a little bit of way and means to kmod rating that report and hearing these comments. Doug . Sureof, i dont have a lot add. One, i see it putting a restraining hand on the army in terms of a big push in modernization, is that the armys in a war now. A war in the greater middle east has a lot of soldier in it. And thats something that Army Leadership cant take their eye off, the potential for escalation there. Theyre also staring in the face a potential war in north korea. Again, thats the kind of thing the chief has to balance out. Whats specific to modernization, i would just offer, one additional thing and thats the army is pulled in many directions of the diversity of its missions that it has under different plans. It has been hard for them to focus. In the armys defense, one reason its been difficult to focus is because of the lack of Political Leadership, giving them priorities. So in the absence of that, from administrations that havent paid a lot of attention to the army really, the army has to try to do everything and thats very difficult. Makes it very difficult to do what youre talking about. So more Political Leadership across the board to tell the army what to focus on and where to take risk i think would be a big factor in helping the army achieve more coherence in its modernizations plans. The last thing id mention, andrew regarding to your report, i think the capability areas are good ones. Im sitting here looking at it though thinking of where the money would come from. The moneys spoken from and its not in those things, largely. So if you look at the palms, that eat up a lot of money, aviation platforms eat up a lot of money. Theyre going to simply have to move a lot of those things. Its something that require the chief, civilian leadership, secretary massty working with congress to achieve, its doable. Members across the board support the army broadly but the army has had a hard time when it come to specific programs as youve pointed out. The neaa has passed the house. It set out an approach to funding in particular, the general and the army in particular well above the b. C. A. Caps and yet those caps are still allow. So, is there an end game here . I admit my crystal ball doesnt show me one where we get to change in the caps. Is it really lisk really . I think we can sit here and say if the army was told you need 10 billion to your modernization but you get no more for your top line, that has an undoable task for a reasonable person. Therefore somewhere probably there needs to be some kind of uptick to get there. Are we on a path towards increase . The house bills passes a lot of wages, which is encouraging, its not clear to me if it gets it to the end. Or when its getting us to. Be very kaufcareful, unlike senator collin i am not elected. I think there are some resources for defense, but that doesnt answer anything that was mentioned by the senator at the table. Im hopeful and i have been for seven years now that a new kind of a new version of what weve seen in the past where if we cant get rid of the budget control act we defer its effects, perhaps a little longer this time, two year deal. I believe a lot of republicans didnt want that. I think my boss Ranking Member smith and chairman thornberry had some thoughtful exchanges on the floor about that and that really lays out well attention. Thats all to be determined the end game, this fall. Well see. Id like to ask the whole panel, and also feel free to talk about funding if youd like, talk about timing. One of key things that drove us to the conclusions that we reach was the fact that due to the some of challenges we discussed today. We think the army needs to do some modernization quickly to regain an advantage taz opinion eroding. And search in specific Technology Areas thats true in particular. So that was one of the thing that kind of enforcemented our approach of capabilities over new platforms because new platforms are hard thing to do quickly. Id be interested in the panels thoughts about time frame. Leafing aside momentarily, although you can bring it in if you want, the question is is it realistic the armys going to get enough money to do something quickly on modernization. Do you see the need for it and how do you pursue doing something quickly and you were king of the world and you have that choice . Heidi you want to start . Sure. This is a discussion i had with general milly before when i was still in the pentagon. He asked me, why does acquisition take so long. I told him its not that we dont know how to do things faster but all the statutes and regulations put shackles on you. Youre asking to run an ultimate marathon, you sprinted but you have shackles on so you cant move fast. But heres several ways that can help us move faster, okay. Our partner nations also have a Defense Budget and they develop capability that can compliment ours. We ought to be leverages our countrys nations capabilities and power, right. We have a tendency to design, develop, deliver everything ourselves, right. Not invented here syndrome. So we could expedite things a lot quicker doing that. The other thing is, instead of setting a golden bar for requirements, waiting for the requirements to be finalized, which takes forever right, and you cant get consensus on the requirements, one method of doing it is, this is a capability i would like to have, were exploring it, industry tell me what is it that you have in this area, bring it, let us see what you have, let us test it out and use it. Provide User Feedback as to is this good enough for what i want to do or here are the knobs i want instead, okay. So, after you do that, then inform me what your requirements ought to be, right. But get the users feedback into the requirements upfront, rather than lobbying over the requirement, you start from scratch and try to scratch a head and how you need it. So i think that would be very available. The third thing that could help tremendously is, dont try to buy the same product for the entire army before you upgrade for the next file, right. Look at global lauk, right. Global hawk have multiple lots. Each lot, from lot to lot was not identical. It improved every single lot. Army should leverage same method dog. So what if the entire army doesnt have it, just an x number of agree gads have one, then you build a technology in certain lawsuot number two. So thats the way you with bring the hand of technology into a warfare far faster than the acquisition process, those are just the three ideas. Theres a high sense of urgency and maybe system of the things that some of the things that appear and could go better like the top chart of technology or statements that seem to not be in because i think the army fully recognizes its got some ground to make up, and its not due to negligence of many Different Reasons and it gets minimum ld by highprofile systems that didnt make it. Its actively trying to do it and its articulated in your document and others, things like the Rapid Capabilities office is a way to get at some things at a smaller thing. Its knot going to get us a new combat system any time soon but its filling the gap that is fit into the capability umbrella than the single magic platform. So its having enough of that fenced so theres some freedom of intellectual maneuver and freedom of doing the prototypes, getting the people to use it and providing input now, and not seven years from now when its tool to change it. And i think that commitment is there. Its again the army communicating internally into the community so it doesnt take all the regulations that are there, and in some cases making them making compliance even harder which doesnt do any which is not the intent of the legislation in the first place. So we got to do some internal learning to kind of greece the gears internal to the army, as well as ask for relief outside where it makes sebs. Doug . I think congress has shown some willingness to support rapid experiment takes and prototypes theory when as a body its convinced of urgency of a threat. Theres a lot of lee way given when that urgency is created pretty well. And thauf done that already with regard to russia. So it can happen. One slight note of caution would be the army can get itself out of difficult situation if it resorts to an ineffort to speed up not doing competitions, at least of some kind at the right point and not doing enough testing. So, hopefully acquisition reform is not resolved on those two things, because the army could, despite best intentions, create a big failure. I think there is a willingness, especially with regard to russian threat these days for congress to support efforts to go faster, as long as its done with some thought and they can make a sell. I want to open up to questions from the audience. Raise your hand and well have someone bring a microphone. We have sidney up front. Hi, sidney freed burg breaking deference. Referencing the chart of the armys top 25 to 30 priorities, and you mentioned this doug, the need to figure out its own course when there isnt a clear himself course. One of thing we struggle with, not to mention any one, what are we for fundamentally, what is your primary mission . We had a clear mig in the gap that drove the big five for example, we had a Clear Mission with counter surgtsy for a while. Now we are looking russia, syria, afghanistan. To what degree is the armys problem, not merely articulating and prioritizing and communicating but actually itself not being sure what its for . Not be clear on its mission therefore not being able to be clear on what it needs to prioritize . What id offer on that is many of you probably seen it, rosa book is a book out recently about how everything became war and the military became everything. And one underlying premises is, the distinction between whats more and whats not is more blurred than its ever been and the military is getting called in to fill thing that arent what youd call traditional core old School Military missions. Like invading and attack across france. Its not that simple to articulate it. And with People Living on the ground, inevitably, if someones got to go do something from the u. S. Government, you know, a soldier has become the default mechanism. Doesnt mean for everything, obviously we need the tool integration of the whole Interagency Team and g. O. Partners and allies and so forth. But, if there is a gap that the u. S. Needs to fill, it generally winds up being some level of boods on the grown, military or civilian and we get pulled into things, and that leads away at the core things that the chief is trying to prepare for, such as a threat from a competitor. So, i think the leaderships attention, they know what they have to do, but their time and attention and engineer gets pulled to fill that gap that we dont have the political capacity and willingness to use that other tool that we have in the United States and the United States government. I can just build or add on to that by saying, with the big five, the original big five there was a concept of operations that went along with that, it was air land battle. And that the two fit together right, and that was a big reenforcing function temporary what made a compelling case of the congress. So the question arise, as far as the big five or for anyones new big five, what would the operational concept be . The one that has been much discussed referenced earlier i think by tom was multi demain battle concept. So far i like it, not sure i understand it yet. But what i have heard about it and read it with joint session discussions i feel what does it mean to you, does it seem like it is a compelling case r for that the army can build and construct a model program. Doug, you look like you want to Say Something so ill turn to you. Well its an intellectually good effort by the army, the challenge it has when it meets contact with congress is its not location specific. Its somewhere mirror fis where we have this battle against somebody somewhere. So, while it is a very important thing for the army to think through deeply, how to better integrate itself across itself, i think at this point it is not formed in a way that can make may turn the dial dramatically. However if you put it in a place, eastern europe, it gets a lot of attention. So i think one thing the army can build on is deputy the secretary about work. A lot of that was about restoring conventional deterrence in a place that members care about. I think if the army can find a way to connect what it wants toto a political context the members care about, which is preserving peace in europe, in that case deterring russia better but being able to fight them for effectively if it comes to that, i think thats a big part of getting support for whatever they want to do. Its a thing that the army lacks because its pulled in so many Different Directions and different places in the world where it has to be ready to fight but it will make a big difference here. Right now i think the best advocate the armys best advocate for the armys multi demain battle thats the way he has to fight in his theater with support of obviously the entire joint team. So its providing a place and id agree, europe, doesnt fit into that dialogue or conversation that much. And if its just the army talking about multi domain battle because it makes for sense to us and were addressing some thing before, and if its just a focused argument, it may provide better technical proficiency. But again, when it meets contact with people that have to actually support it, politically, financially and otherwise, thats the challenge i think weve got right now. When you kind of get into it, it makes sense. But theres no such thing of a 30 second commercial, it kind of conveys it to the Senior Leader whos busine whose busy with 15 other important things. This initiative i got to jump behind it. Other questions . Sidney you get to go again. To pull the thread from the first half of todays event, missiles, i mean the chinese and the russians sitting aside the nine f treaty, and im generally confused by what a lot of these treaties do. But sitting aside those treaties, the russia certainly have a lot of land base missiles that are a major part of their fire power in lieu of having a lot of f16s and 35s. Does the army need to investigate in a missile core or a rocket Artillery Force of that kind . And would it be helpful to have no i. N. F. Treaty in order to do that . Even so, been being confined at 499 kilometers because of the treaty. I think the army is starting to shift itself focus there, we have a rocket artillery core, weve them the units for a long type. I think some of what the chief has talked about in terms of testimony is fore structure and capability. In a european context the 499 is less limiting than it is in a pacific context. So it depends on the army again getting some guidance on where it focuses separate. The challenges i mentioned earlier thats going to compete with all the other modernization projects, dramatic change in the armys top line. I think the army is putting a lot of emphasize there, theres a lot of potential under 499 to make the army what has much ber. So i think thats what the armys focused on right now, leaving the big political question to others. I want to add to that if i may. So when this discussion occurred i was still in the pentagon, and it comes down to every discussion every discussion comes down to well, how much money do i have to build the capability that i need. Does it have to so literally came down to, is it just a replacement to give you better range or do you literally need more capability than just greater range . Because you want to counter targets that may maneuver at end state. It is a totally different type of missile than a dome missile that can flight ballistically to counter someone else. So a lot of the discussion was being debated, and a. O. A. Was in process when you left, i dont know the end results of that analysis. It was purely driven by the budge decision unfortunately, goes back to what doug said, need more money if you want greater capability. Whats interesting i do want to add one more thing. The pay trend baatal yant is really stressed out to the max. So we need more of that i think air and Missile Defense and rock artillery for example, which would be long the lines of what youre representativing. Well see. On the earlier point that you meed, what is the answer to your question on do we need more range or more capability, what the if the answer is yes . Im thinking of what the knave was doing its a. O. A. For drones coming off the couriers was going to be a strike asset, an asset that provided fuel, and i think we have been in that exercise for at least five years now, figuring out. And the answer to all of them is probably yes. So, you talked earlier heidi about a process of doing requirements that will allow you to make progress without necessarily having, you know, the 20year answer in hand when we start. And, do you see that is there an application of that same idea to this question about integrated fires as well . Or how would is there hope that we could do that . Oh, boy, is there hope. I think whats tough for the army is because its portfolio is far broader than the navy and the air force, okay. We have two to three or more products. So you have demand on the modernization, everybodys portfolio is important. So, as a result, without increasing the top line enough, everything is driven by, do i have enough budget to do that. And then what happens is, you just marchly upgrade systems. So the right lane is to counter these threats and see where the threats are evolving to. Will the army get enough money to literally do this, i dont know. Right. Because if the focus is going to be already as a manpower, youre not going to have enough modernization budget. Right . Your top line cant accommodate it. I can always hope. Its a related problem thats been talked about a lot. Its the persistentsy and predictability and conflicts over years because these thing dont come over night. The program is like an undernourished person thats been that why for eight to ten years. And not because, you know benevolence or evil when hard decisions were made but its been exacerbated by budget control act and ongoing continuing resolutions. So if there was some mystical giant pot of money that became available, which isnt, but just a pot experiment that we had all the money to buy the stuff that we modernized in those strategies, its going to take time to regain a viable Modernization Program thats adaptable to those changing threats. So its its going to take as long to get out of this as it took to get into it. And its sort of like the plane has been coming down to the ground and now its starting to turn around due to a hero of efforts and a number of places, but to get back up its going to try as to the take as much effort as it will take to get down here. Well, dan i think youre going to get the last word. I want to thank our audience for joining us its a great discussion. I hope you all find and read the report its john line. For those here in person we have copies as well. And please join me in thanking our panel for a great discussion. [ applause ] President Trump tweeted about the debate on healthcare writing if the obamacare is herring people, and it is, why shouldnt it hurt the Insurance Companies and why should congress not be paying what the public pays. And one of his appointees lane ciao sat down to discuss our goals, her marriage to senator mccoll follow and her members of coming from taiwan as a child. Watch the review friday on 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan. Well look at whether law can restrain war and the impact of religion on foreign policy. More than history t. V. And prime Time Starting at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan3. Sunday on indepth, american educator and attorney chris ann hall is our guest. And for Different Reasons everybody has the idea that the federal government is out of control. And then the most asked question i get as we teach wharks do you suppose that is . What do we do about it. If weve been teaching the constitution properly for last 150 years, we would know what to do. Shes the author of several books including essential stories for junior pate yet. During our live threehour conversation well be taking your phone calls and facebook questions. Watch live from noon to 3 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan2. Announcer cspan where history unfolds daily. In 1979, cspan was created as a Public Service by americas Television Companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. Announcer education secretary betsy devos met with Sexual Assault survivals and mans rights advocate. Title nine was a law created to probability or improbability Sexual Assault at schools that received federal funding. Secretary devos talks about how title nine is impacting students. Good afternoon everyone, w