Transcripts For CSPAN3 African 20240705

Couple of things. Please remember to meet yourself and our program tonight will be record it so youll able to find that online within the next couple of days. Also at the end of our program we will have time for. So if you have question, please send that in the chat and joyce will be asking those at the end of the program. So, again, thank you guys joining us tonight. And i help me in welcoming Ranger Fletcher to our program. Oh, thank you very much. And thank you, everyone, tonight for joining again. My name is ranger. Im the science for Great Smoky Mountains National Park in the Appalachian Highlands learning center. Tonight, well, on of the National Park service. I just to welcome you all to your African American experiences in the smokies. This project is so important. Weve been working on it for so long and were finally to the point where were really just getting the information out to the masses and educating people on there. So tonight were going to learn about several different and several different africanamerican that really impacts not only smokies, but the appalachian. A little about myself before i get started off. Been a park ranger for about 16 years and worked in a lot of different parks, including the smokies, Lyndon Johnson Waco Mammoth National monument, fort sumter and russell cave. And so ive had quite the experience in the National Park service, so as we said earlier, any kind of questions that you have at the end of this ill make sure we get to them and, we add served. So lets get started. So Great Smoky Mountains National Park its such beautiful park and was that is that was in 1934. We have about 800 square miles of park in east tennessee and Western North carolina. And as you know, were known for our beauty biodiversity but also were known for our human vestiges. We have about 9000 years of human between early white settlers native americans and africanamericans. And again if youve never been the Great Smoky Mountains park, you have to see it. You may have to see me there. But lets move on to main story. I cant let you all to look at this screen and just think about the history, as i just talked about human vestiges and date about when you come to the smokies what history may what what will you think about what comes to mind when youre driving this scenic view theyre looking over the overlook on the left here youll. See the civilian conservation Corps Members, its probably circa 1930s here. The civilian conservation corps really helped, you know, this park established and they maintained trails and cemeteries and built things and everything goes on. Youre right. You see the job cuts of 18 Corps Members in it circa 1960s and they did the same job it just as the csis. When you look at these, the reason ive put this up here is a lot of times when people come to the smokies, they only about, you know, the history such as the civilian conservation corps, but usually theyll think about africanamericans in the smokies or working in the smoky eyes. And that is something that were trying to change. And even with these two pictures you can see from 1930 and 1960s and 30 short years, park did start to change and now were just pushing it forward. But to let everyone know, you know, early white settler history, africanAmerican History, American History makes this park whole. And what were here to do tonight is till the entire picture of the smokies so how do we start this project . Well this project really dates prior to 18. Theres always, you know, friends of the smokies is Great Smoky Mountains association, our agency, our park our park rangers looking. How can we tell more stories about africa and americans in the region. And so in 2018, we really put that that effort forward. We really started looking the lives of African Americans. And just to kind of give a 30,000 foot view, we back up to the 1540 all the way to the present and what were doing is were looking at those artifacts, policies oral histories, photos that really helps us convey the story. You, the public, and were going do a little bit of that of that tonight. But we have to back up. We have to back. We up to, you know, how enslaved africans got to the region. And when people think slavery, they think about, you know, slavery in these such as charleston, south carolina, the lowcountry, they think, you know, slavery in memphis or just any kind of major ports such as new orleans. However, in slave africans actually made the journey further west or guinea a small on the african coast, all the way here as far as back as 1540. And so we that hernando de soto and his tribe bought enslaved africans over here in 1542. We know that, you know, captured africans were transported from guinea to the carolina colony in the 1600s as well. And so we date when they came and also they came from and you have to about the journey here just put yourself the minds of those enslaved africans to be taken from their home and sent to a place theyve never been to. The smokies, a region thats cooler or colder than what they theyre probably used mountain this you know a more walking and and things as that nature and it was a treacherous time to here however we have to tell the whole story and from that we know dead in appalachia we have to think about what those plantations looked like when they got here. The plant, the mountain is terrain really change what plantations looked like a lot of people think about the big white homes with several hundred you know, enslaved people and things such as that nature that you would see charleston but not so much because the mountainous terrain what you had here were these smaller plantations with about you 5 to 12 enslaved people. This is because, again was hard to transport enslaved people to the mountains. And also there would have been more into the enslaver would have been more into livestock, pigs, cattle, things such as that nature growing apples and we know that in the winter months when they couldnt, you know, necessarily feed all the enslaved, then they would rent those enslaved people out to places like asheville, North Carolina and tennessee, two hotels, as we know that people wouldve been mining crews, anything that you can think of at the time. So how do we investigate this history in the mountains to think about the smokies that a lot of people dont understand is the smoke is is very the smokies its out there if youve never been in a think about the Mountain Culture is that you know in the smokies people didnt really write stuff down there people that was illiterate that you know certain spell can write things like that and so you have a void at times telling the stories especially when it comes to enslave africans, africanamericans as term because. You know a lot of their stories were by the enslaver and so what we started to do is to investigate the history through primary documents and what youre looking here on your left is a slave schedule from 1850s. So back in this time in 1840, you had the census records. And so, you know, you can look do census and you, you know, you know, when people died or, you know, how old were. But in the 1850s enslavers wanted to keep with their property or their chattel and so they made these documents known the slave schedules that you could actually see today or ancestry dot com this is a slave schedule from Haywood County and it what were using is because were able to see how many slaves per county there was at the time and so a lot of towns people may say well you know there was slavery in the mountains things such as that nature which is not true. We know that some of the larger counties such as haywood which is where asheville, North Carolina, is not county were not real. Tennessee is average. They can have easily 1200 enslaved people. Indians so places such as coquille in the severe county jackson may only have 80 enslaved people in that county. Now, the thing to remember, too is they were just enslaved people in the mountains. They were free people color as well in the mountains thats been documented in places like. Cold or severe. Severe. So lets move on to our next slide. We talked about bringing visibility to the invisible. You know, if you think, you know, an enslavers not going to write a lot of information about the enslaved. Did not going to write birthdays and you know moments that they had their children and a lot of enslaved people you know that was born in slavery or brought over you know, they didnt know their birthday, their last names changed to the last name of the enslaved evers. So theres a lot of things, you know, are not, you know correct or on point but still are able to use documents and the reason of showing you all this document is because the civil really brings visibility to enslaved people. The slave schedules may tell the name, the first name of enslaved, you know, maybe not again, last name of the enslaver, the hair color, the occupation of farmer, Something Like that. But because of the civil war, you had on the left these mustard in roles where African Americans are actually enrolling and telling a little bit more about themselves. We know that a lot of africanamericans in the region, in rhode, in places like tennessee. And now if you look on your left here, you were able to see the age youre able to see they mustered in and things like that. And so youre able to see a little bit more. But also the deaths every kids as well. On your right youll see epic case for a headstone so. Now we also see this henry pride when he died, we can see a little bit where hes going to be buried and Everything Else in dance of further add to that information if were able to find it. We can see these pension records where enslaved or sorry not enslaved but civil war soldiers had to go in front of a judge and until you know where they lived if they had children the name of the children, their wives name all these things in order to get their pensions is so this is how we build the story how another thing that were doing is we use a technology to find in smokies something thats really important or really important artifact is the 150 some cemeteries that we have registered in some of those cemeteries. They are africanamerican kids freed and both enslaved. Bury we have several cemeteries in North Carolina as castellucci or the oak or a oh acre cemetery. And we also have cemeteries and higdon makes a mountain. Cemeteries can tell us lot if you look to your right here whats what we can do is be able to kind of build a little bit more of a picture with some of the primary documents we have. So on your right, going to see a little snippet of one of the historians from the 1940s that he wrote about a graveyard and hes about the catalyst year, the mohican cemetery is so you know how many people we think is there and so on. But if you look under that, youll be able to see that what we ran into, we ran into things such as, okay, were looking at these slaves schedules and the enslaver. The name may be a au coeur, however, its really o e ker and you see those changes in those records because. The numerator would write down what they heard when theyre taking the census of enslaved. So if they take name as o e or if they take the enslavers name as a o or whatever that may be, what happens is thats what gets written and thats what gets written down in history. So we have to make sure that were correct on their but if we if we go a little we could talk about were using this technology. So what were doing is were working western Carolina University and what bringing in men to do Ground Penetrating and the great thing about this not only are we partnering well one of our fellow universities, we also bring in asheville city, greenwood, which is the program that brings teenagers out to get. Its in a National Park service. So as to internship in these students and this university actually go out and they do a Ground Penetrating radar survey and what Ground Penetrating radar does is it bounces waves off of whatever is underground and, you know, two, four, six feet according on where it is it bounces back. Is this image which you will see on the right, which are explained in just a second, and then were able to do a less intrusive or invasive way of figuring. Now, if the are right in the primary documents in the land deeds, what youre looking at here on the left is the inflow slaves. Abraham, jim enloe, the minguss, which well about in the second in the hides all old slaves in the account left the area which is on the North Carolina side of the park, the gateway of cherokee and what youre looking there is gravesite. Now lets talk a little bit about the territory digs for what youre seeing at a grave site in the smokies period. A lot of times people may think the enslaved people in early white were very differently and in some cases in some some things they were as far as the area where they were buried in some of in some of the techniques they were definitely the same. And so if come in the smokies you see open areas as you see on the left what is clear and how you know greenery where you know other enslaved people or early white settlers buried and the reason they did that in the mountains is made clear out their area in the mountains is because theres a lot of critters, the smokies, a lot of snakes, things like that. So they want to make sure that no one would be bitten by a snake or anything like that. And then Something Else youre probably going to notice or head and foot stones. So if you look closely at the photo, youll see hidden foot stones left and right of the Ground Penetrating radar or even the hills. Those stones were made out as soapstone and anything that was in area at the time, sandstone you didnt see granite as, but thats what they had someone have worked those stones with some kind of hammer and they would have made the deepest that we see today Something Else you would know this in the graveyard words are people are oriented from east to west as you know enslaved people were really in into you know it comes to baptists or the religion that was in the area. So a lot of these grave sites are east, east to west for the sake and coming of christ so thats how they buried people. Now if you look even closer you may see a couple of hills and troughs there in 18, 1800s. Some of this was normal in the smokies is pretty wet. We get a lot of rain and so what you have these graves would move families would come back and they will put back over these graves as they moved. So you see that quite a bit. What did you see. What enslaved cemeteries or the inscriptions in things that you would see in the early white settlers cemeteries. So you look closely at the headstone, what you what you wont see is, you know, this person was loved there something that something telling us a little bit about the person their favorite and this really shows you the people that were able to those stones were a little bit Higher Society in the smokies and out of all the enslaved cemeteries are that have enslaved burials in them. We have not found any inscriptions of any kind. And so it really shows you just the culture in just where they were in the chain you know both socially economics and just socially in the smokies. So not able to read anything about these people. What we are able to do if look to the right, youre going to see a photo in blue and also youre going see a little bit of green yellow is kind of in the area. When i took over the project in 2018, we knew that there were African American burials here. We knew thought that there were maybe five enslaved people buried here. However, we discovered because Ground Penetrating radar that theres actually eight or more enslaved people buried right in this area. If you look at the numbers, those numbers show you the actual of the enslaved are not the or the hills that see on the left because these burials have moved over time in the other thing that weve discovered do Ground Penetrating radar or parcel both coffins in so in the smokies coffins were made out of poplar trees something such as that nature people did make before they even died. People learned how to make coffins. And the thing about it is, if for sure, there a couple of coffins here, that means so one in this family, one of these enslaved people learned the woodwork and trade and they may have made that coffin for family or even for themselves. These graves from, you know, couple of years old all the way to about 50 ish we know in the and especially in the 1800s most middle lived longer than women and men lived to be 50. So if theyre lucky low sixties women and fifties. We also can tell at times not in this century too, but cemeteries overall. If a woman died during what can tell is well see two graves beside each other and but its hard to tell that what enslaved 17 is because theres no inscription as an early white settler cemeteries you see the inscriptions have names and dates and so on and so this a great way weve used Ground Penetrating radar in this cemetery weve it in the old ekeus cemetery area and were going to continue to use that to ensure that we do not disturb these people. If we had a close up shot of one of these graves stones, which you would see as the culture of west africa to west africans believe, that you have to pay a toll after you to move on. And even today, people leave coins behind to show that respect. So if you ever come to the you will see that now you probably ask why we see any you know art, effects left behind like spoons, glasses, things as that nature in certain cases, you may have that, but, you know, wooden spoons was used by the enslaved. So if that was left behind, that would be long gone. Now. So another way that we are really looking into these artifacts or these cemeteries are cadaver dogs. And you probably ask yourself, what were they doing with cadaver dogs . Well, cadaver dogs are important. Weve teamed up with palm marten consult consulting. And what he does is brings out these dogs that can smell humor and decomposition and they can smell human decomposition. Thats several hundred years. And we are able to actually go deeper into the mountains or steeper hills and such as that nature or just if we missed something to, actually know if theres burials there. So were any technique that we to learn more about africanamericans. So lets talk a little bit about the people just what brings to life here in the smokies, what big story that we have in the smokies, just the enloe migas back in the high families. These families are some of the first families that in a kind of left the area is Western North carolina to the cherokee. They actually put down roots in the late 1700s. And you know that in low in the minguss especially minguss were there for quite some time. The meal that cecil in the right was rebuilt it we think this is one of three meals and it was rebuilt in 1886 by dr. John mingus. This family owned enslaved as well. Indeed, the National Park service in the 1960s and restored at the mill. So this mill would have been really important at the time people would have now came and brought their grain in and they would also you know trade items and such and so we hear a lot about the early white settlers story especially when it comes to the minguss. However, there are also theres also a black side of the family as well to really get you to understand. Were going to refer to these family members as daniel a mingus. And Daniel Mingus was previously enslaved by the mingus by dr. John mingus. Were going to talk a little bit about mingus senior and were to talk about Charles Mingus junior. And the thing about it is were going to talk about a story from, you know, a family of people that was enslaved all the way to the famous musicians of today. And so if we start with Daniel Mingus. Daniel mingus, as we talked about, was enslaved. If we look at the the. Actual 1880s census records later on, will will see that Daniel Mingus still worked for the mingus family. Daniel, dr. Mingus had a son named abraham mingus and he had daughter named Clarinda Mingus. Around 8 to 18 seventies period a year. Daniel mingus was actually helping that to john mingus build a home and during that time a child was conceived at this time this was conceived between Daniel Mingus and Clarinda Mingus. The thing about is Daniel Mingus actually was already mad and in fact may to a white woman by the name of sarah and he had several kids. These kids would have been known as instead, you know, biracial, mulatto, which is the term we dont use now. But at the time for historical significance or you know, it the it was mulatto and so he you know these kids and then he had a kid out of wedlock and what happened was Clarinda Mingus actually moved to severe county remarried and never took care of this child they had actually the child was care of by a doctor john mingus and abraham mingus and youre probably wonder what was his life like at the time. Well we talk this child well, this child, mingus will have an interest in life what were looking at here which is really difficult to we are looking. In 1880 census record and what i have here is a couple of stars as highlighted there is a gold a red star a purple star. And you also have outlined blue star. And we get to the story about Charles Mingus singer and. You know, daniel moves of his mother, moves on. Hes raised by his grandparents and great grandpa. Now if you look at the record, you see a yellow star by mingus. Youll see a red star by clarinda. You see a outline in purple star by charles is Charles Mingus senior, which were going to talk about and then youre also the outline blue star by Daniel Mingus. Again he took the last Daniel Mingus took the last name his enslaver and you notice in this census record is the little Charles Mingus singer would be indicated white in three years though at the time of the 1880 census record they now we have to ask, you know, why why was this important, you know, and how he labeled as white and why did this happen . We have to think about the culture back did. If a child white passing did a lot of times or even even adult was white pass had numerator would put them down as white. The funny on this one is abraham mingus, which was his grandfather was the enumerator of the county and so abraham actually put Charles Mingus down is a white child and you have to think about that too joan mingus is mingus and the mingus is being so well known in the community and then abraham mingus, his or his daughter against his son, which is previously enslaved black man and what that looked like to them. But also you have to think about what did they think about when it came to, you know, Charles Mingus, his life what would it be like . What would it be like if they put, you know, mulatto down or black down on this census record . And what would it look like if they put white on the census records . And so theres so many things in there in that nature that we to look at, at that. So it really it really shows us a lot of so lets lets talk a little bit more about Charles Mingus singers life. You know what we do know is he left swain county or the oconnor of left the area pretty young. You know, he left around 14, 15 years old. He only back once, but he was in the military very and beautiful thing about that is he served the spanishamerican war. He also served as a buffalo singer. And you probably know a little bit the buffalo soldiers, but they really helped with the expansion of the american west. They fought indigenous groups out there, but they also lost some of the National Park Service First park rangers there. What we do know is he return home at one time and. When he returned home, he didnt stay long and we have to think why is dead . Was it because when he returned, because of his race of mulatto, did he have those problems with Race Relations with his family . We do know that he never went back home. And if you think about yourself, weve seen this before where, you know, people leave home or they dont come back or they dont connect with their family. And this is what happened here what we do know is charles made, you know, Charles Mingus senior was made three times in what his second marriage. He had a named Charles Mingus jr, which well get into in just a second. But as you can see on the photo to the left, Charles Mingus senior was, as you can see by, ratio and it even though you would think for him that made life easier throughout life people did say that he talked about that quite a bit and it also made a lot of fables about his life. But one thing that didnt change was his father, a black man from africa. And so well move. Where does that go . Well, it goes all to the next charts mingus. Charles mingus jr. Sorry for the misstep of type of top, but Charles Mingus junior was born on a military base, 1922, and he grew that dead little love for jazz music in california. Some people dont know charles is, but he was a double bass pianist and a bandleader, and he composed beautiful works, over 300 songs and was some of the most important musicians you can think of. Louis armstrong, kid ory, just just to name a people. But Charles Mingus, ginger actually went through the same thing. You know, he never published biography, but he did talk about being biracial. And he as his father had challenges that and he was married three times as well. And he had a son named eric mingus later on life. Sadly, he died at the age of 54. What were going to do is hopefully this will out for us in the next slide. Were going. Kind of listen to a little bit Charles Mingus in europe. He played quite a bit. This is before his death, but in the 1960s, his band was traveling over to europe. And you about the time during civil rights movements and things such as that major he was still traveling. So more than im going to try play this lets lets make sure that it works. If not i can re present this in hopefully the other zone. Okay. And youre going to go. Do. That that. Im. Down the road. Big black now. Got it on the boundary. Yeah. You know, jumped out. I jumped up. I just think that that for me its just really just a beautiful thing to see, to see you, know the change in in history and and to see that family just progress and why its so to to tell the full history of a part which is every of what we have at the smokies. And so, you know, a lot of times we get the question of why dont africanamericans graduate why . Why are we not out in the park why are we not, you know, doing these things and the biggest thing is, you know, in at least now parts history in many parts history, African Americans have always been there. Theyve always recreated. And then when they show this in the next couple of slides, but if we go back to the 1930s when the part started on the left, youre going to see superintendent egan. On the right, youre going to see a memo from superintendent egan. And to summarize the memos that was going back and forth in the park service, especially the one that you see now, is that, you know, just saying that africanamericans, they dont really up a High Percentage of visitors that go to the smokies you just dont see them. And at the time, in the 1930s and 1940, you know, shenandoah National Park was the National Park to start thinking about, really integrating National Parks a lot of times, you know you may see comfort stations like the one that was built for the rich in the park a while back but you know, a lot of times you know, especially superintendent egan just didnt see the need because the numbers were not there. What going to show you tonight is the numbers always been there. Africanamerica kids still regulate today and they were doing this some you know time ago when the park was founded as well and one way to do that is earlier i showed you all a picture, the job corps. And, you know, in the 1960s, the job corps was much different than civilian conservation corps. This was an integrated corps with africanamericans actually poor whites as well as native americans at the time. And the think about this is that a lot of these African Americans, a lot of these africanamericans learned so when they were in the job conservation corps and we did a lot of oral histories on some of these african africanamericans that served in job conservation corps or the jaycees, and they had a great experience building trails a trailblazing building, picnic tables and just just the overall commodity and the skills that they learned from that time and thats why just the experience of them able to be a part of the park really shows that, yes, these men went on to recreate and even go on long trips. You exploring National Parks even until today and so it really starts again with the visibility our africanamerican has getting that chance to be a part of is is really imported and so job corps shows that shows us that now a little bit a little bit more about the of the park in africanamerican kids recreating is this thinking about the overall town of elk mouth which is really special in the history the smokies elk is a very it was settled in the early 1800s were homesteaders know hunters, squatters and so on it really transformed because little River Logging Company of the 1900s and the from there you know just a lot of visitors coming to the park also came wealthy you know people from knoxville area and they would go to the you know clubhouses there such as wonderland the appalachian clubhouse and spend the summers there. And they also had homes there and now the National Park service after, you know, the National Service actually fully took this area and these land deeds in the 1990s were preserved in elk to kind of keep it as it was, but also educate people. But you dont see an elk. My is the history of africanamerican inns africanamericans would have on those chains as well coming in and serving as butlers caretakers and even servant food at the time and that history is quite lost. Some of the history thats not lost is when it comes to the davis family. And i enjoy the davis family. Been lucky enough to do oral and oral history with davis senior, which used to come with his dad. So we can kind of back up and, talk about the history of the davis family being an element. What you see here from left right is william mary, steve davis, part of the davis family. But william was really it is william used to work with him. The melbourne family, which was prominent family from knoxville, and they had one of these cabins on millionaires row, as we call it, and with their william and, his family used to be caretakers of cabin and they would come out and they would get the cabin ready the spring and they would set the cabin down as well for a couple of days. And they would build memories there as well. If you look, let me just go back here. If you look at the last picture of steve davis to the right that gives you really photo of what the cabin used to look like the cabin is no longer on jades creek today, but the fireplace is. And if you look back at william davis, youll see that that was the front porch of the cabin. But lets talk a little bit about ron davis senior in saying, yes, you know, africanamericans recreated we did or history ron davis senior last year but ron davis important because he remembers stories of going to this cabin he remembers fly fishing the secret ice fireflies before it was even a thing back in the 1960s. He has pictures bears you know but also impact at him so much that he actually went to college at haywood tech at the time and he worked for forest re degree and he worked for tva for some time 20 plus years, working for the Tennessee Valley authority at the time. And what i love about ron davis is she tells stories about his dads birthday, but he really tells a good fish story. And so im going to do is i will play a portion the oral history for you all and its ron davis and were going to let him talk about fly fishing in the smokies and why its so important to him. And i will this one story with you i was i my dad us how to fly fish with the flora as is ten 1112 europeans and when i would go camping hours early teenage years probably at that point 13 1415 during that time period Junior High School time during and we would fish streams that were in close proximity to the campsite and there was a time when i cooked a big Rainbow Trout to the point that there were people standing around on the bank watching trying to land that fish. It so big it was. Probably 18, 18 inch rainbow. It was huge, biggest i have ever heard crowds gathering around because it was near the campsite where we were camping and there were other people coming up on this whale crabs were were standing around watching me see i could get the fishermen, my buddy that was with me, he saw me play fish. I got it almost all the way and told me i was going to put a mat on it and. He got so excited that he wanted try to grab the fish and not my fish off the hook. And the fish went swimming. The i could have killed him, but yeah, i have those kind memories of just camping, fishing, just. And then in later years, when i was going to he would community college, i was traveling back and forth across mountain a lot and and going to school in Western North carolina in the mountains in waynesville, camping we take field trips forced to class would take field trips to the mountains lot so my exposure to actually going into the mountains just really just increased a lot so you can see oral histories are so and its so great that we were to capture his voice now ron i just talked to him a weeks ago. Hes still working with the National Park service. Hes huge advocate for the National Parks service. Actually, one of his brothers is a wildlife as well. And so as you can see, being introduced to the outdoors really changed ron davis and his family. The and so we knew go into one more story which is one of my favorites stories which is about daniel white and hes known as the black alaskan hes one of the few african thats actually hiked the appalachian trail. And i just go to one of the quotes that he told during the oral history last year, which is what i have stumbled into with this. Hiking is my calling. I can feel the energy. Africanamericans who were here before. I want to search for that history and i want to go back. I can feel connection. This hiking stuff is natural to me. This outdoors comes to easy is what i omit to do. Daniel white is from asheville, North Carolina. Before he went on, the appalachian trail at 80, he had never hiked. When he went out there, fell love with it. And during that time when youre hiking the appalachian trail, at times you can get trail name from people that you into, but actually white made this whole trail name known as the black legend. It definitely coincides black elections, which is one of the terms that africanamericans use in the region. If theyre from appalachia. Now, daniel white talks about hiking through the smokies, and once he, you know, passed clements dome and and so far on and you know through New Found Gap it just started snowing just the worst snowstorm ever but he remembers that impacting them so much but hes still hiking today the fact the last time we talked daniel hes in maine he bought ten acres of land and. He started his own outdoor camp for kids of color. They can go there and for free. The meals free and they can camp and hike and they can have the experiences that he did. I just want to close those before we do a little bit of reflections and as we talked about this is we call it the African American experience at the making the invisible visible for a reason and thats because we have to bring visibility this quote from Nikki Giovanni is important. Shes from east tennessee, very known poet in the area. And she says youve got find a way to make people youre there. And what were doing in the smokies today and, were finding a way to let people know that africanamericans were there theyre still there in the smokies, were telling their stories. And as i said before, you know, this this park is special and. The human vestiges that we have here is special and unique and its important to tell all the stories of the smokies early white settlers native americans and, the africanamerican story. So thank you very much. We just saw questions. Hold on. Im getting my camera down. Get it . All right. Well, thank you so much. I think these stories were really moving. And i appreciated the audio or the oral histories and all of the things that you added to really give a sense of all of the work that yall are doing. I thank you for bear with me. Theyre to internet fair. Thank you. Absolutely. It happens. I if you have any questions, feel free to send them in. I come up with some questions to get the ball rolling. So one of the things that i know is something that is not commonly talked often was that cherokee people did have owning people or they enslaved people. How Much Research has been done on the people by the cherokee in the region . And also did did slave schedules look different for the cherokee . Yeah. So so its its im glad you bring that up. So in my career i actually worked as a native american consultant and i worked with the tribes actually quite a bit into earlier point of my career so i worked with the cherokee a bit and yes a lot of times people dont talk about cherokee having enslaved people, but they did matter of fact, in some books, i believe its deer skin and duffels, which is a really good book. It talks about one of the few things that native americans are cherokee to take with them. On a trail of tears, their enslaved and so that that has happened as far as the race search involving in that region as far as the research of cherokee and slaves or enslaved people in the park we have you delve into that too much in the reason is we are building really we when were looking at this project we are looking in time periods and intensely like say for instance the next thing we really want to read we really want to look at. Our research is the reconstruction or area because we dont have. Theres a lot of information in there, but we have it. We have tapped into it. Yeah. The other reason we havent looked into it so much is because we know that theres a lot of information of africanamericans in okemah we talked about earlier that were putting together we have things such as archives video that we just found like two months ago that no ones seen but a couple handful people. And so thats not a priority, but it is an important story we we we do know that even when it came to the job cuts of it, i will say well the job cuts of asian core was there in the 1960s. They you know, least go to cherokee, North Carolina. And that wasnt a place that they enjoyed going to, you know. So we havent got there. But we know that their story is there and for a for us its we just want to tell the full story so if we had enough information on that within the park we will now the last part of that is did this did to say schedules looked different for the cherokee so it only ran across the you know cities records of you know slave schedules that was made by the United States government. We are unaware of any particular like cherokee slave schedules. And ive never seen reference to it. Now, if if is is there documents out there as far as like some kind of, you know, documents, the actual cherokee enslavers kept . Or maybe so, but we havent dug deep enough to look into it. Yeah, well, that makes sense that youre focusing more on the information that you already are trying to dig it. And you have a large of time that research could be going on for a very long time. They could go for a long time. And its difficult because again, a lot of times people. The thing its its hard to always tell if its almost like a degeneration where things have changed with children now. But one time there was a of parents that didnt see children. Well, i mean, their children talked or things like that. They didnt hear out. Now, parents do it differently. They hear, you know, children talking. They talk about what their insulin tastes like that. And so doing going back to like people just especially the mountains, you know you if youre inside you dont want to tell people you can read and write period anyway. And so a lot of those stories were just handed down that we dont have. And in one thing in particular, a lot of people ask us, they say have, you read anything on, the underground railroad describing underground railroad. And i always tell people say, well, the underground railroad was a really secretive operation. And if you put the smokies this vast on top of that, i dont know if were ever going to find anything. You know, we know about quakers. We know about quakers in east tennessee. That was in east tennessee means being sympathizers. You know, or or not believing in slavery. But, you know, there some stories that we may never find out, especially like you said, with the scope of work that we have so. Morgan asked, what can we do today to help make sure that continues to happen so for black stories. Yeah i mean theres a couple of things i think, you know, philanthropic work is always good, but i think, i think, you know, education like is important to be able to just, you know, tell this story, you know, two different people is great making that connection. I think one thing is really important. I talked to the sierra club about this when we did a podcast last year. I think one thing is important in what were trying to do differently is that theres lot of dark history. It comes to, you know, especially in the slavery period. But we also want to make sure that were telling like of as much of the story as to bring as much people in because we dont want people to to now some sometimes you have people say, well, ive heard that i heard that story. And so its really important get as many voices as as many, you know, stories out there while also telling some of that dark history as well. And so i think just, you know, put it to our back, things like partner with the park and just doing these events is is one of our main ways of really getting this story. And so we have more comments. Maria says excellent topic, especially the compelling stories, very important work. Mr. Fletcher, that will impact generations to come really appreciate you. Oh, thank you. Always come visit the park. Wed love to have share, he says. I live in atlanta, but i the area quite a few times over the last few years and have never heard of the africanAmerican History or the experience since the piece. I thoroughly enjoyed the presentation and look forward to learning more, especially. I love visiting the area. I was just in asheville a couple of week well thats thats awesome i know asheville we are in the beginning stages of working with the city of asheville city of asheville is working on an africanamerican trail almost like a story telling trail. So were not at the point we can really do not ready to work with this yet. Theyre getting the funding in in position. Were definitely going to be doing with our Gateway Community such as knoxville, cherokee, waynesville, so on. But also, you know, i were doing we just finish this educate final wayside panel. So when you go in the park you see all this about what youre looking at right those mountains salmon juice and so on we just finish of phase one of actual africanamerican panels Something Else that were going to be doing thanks to Great Smoky Mountains association and friends the smokies they are really helping with philanthropic work. And were going to have hopefully this year, african folk or bluegrass. Its so yeah and so things that its happening since 2018 weve been doing a lot of the research but now youre going to start seeing not only in the park within the education programs, more. We have a great Education Division is doing that. Were doing a lot of social around it as well. Well, that thatll be a fun experience and i know for me im someone who stops at panels all the time, so i look forward to reading those. Awesome. So one of the questions that i have because i have friends that live out there, are there any outdoor, outdoor clubs or hiking clubs in the area that are, you know, that meet up regularly because i know that for some people its a scary experience. You go out there by yourself sometimes, it doesnt matter who you it is in, you know, scary experience. Just comes from, you know, we conducting some of the oral histories, some of the africanamericans we interviewed said some of them felt safer, actually. They would use park to drive through. They felt safer that way. But also, if they wear fishing gear hiking sometimes took people with them. So they were waiting this back way, you know, way back to the ku klux klan and lynchings, the woods and things such is that nature. There are groups such as outdoor afro. Ive worked with them before. They have chapters as i know they have one in charleston. They have one pretty close, but they have throughout the southeast and, they meet up and they do they hike so outdoor afro is a is a really big one that does that. Ive been out on hikes with them before. Thats great. I, i think thats something that everyone benefit from. I know that here in tennessee, theres a lot of outdoor groups of people coming together and, different Interest Groups too. So i think thats very. Morgan asks if someone would like, do research on certain families cemeteries, where can they start . Oh, i well, yeah. So im trying go back to when i started with the smokies two years ago. I think just thinking about the research i, i will say ancestry recom is great. I mean just to be able to look at those slave schedules and those census records is just, you know, and that not just days, death certificates and things that to help you put a story you know do take a volunteer there help us with the research but i think its a course know where you see the void for for us theres a if you ever been to the park a section of the park known as cadillac valley, another old 1800 settlement, you where robert love had, you know, if not a thousand enslaved people in there and in that area. However, you know we know theres cemeteries there, but we also have also read little bits and pieces about. You know what enslaved lives were and in it kind peaks my interest of oh they were taking care of horses and they were working the fisher lodge and they were doing so. What happens is i look at that and i say, oh, theres breadcrumbs here. Theres, theres a story here. And i think whoever is doing the Research Just really have to do that. But you also, you know, for me, as were researching this project, is that just theres tons of park rangers in the park that love this we. The most important thing about doing research is its really checking the sources in and it may take some of the stories that i shared with you are today so two years to research and and create is so it takes a while but its fun its fun the same way to be able to do that when i go out to those cemeteries and i look at those graves like that and i tell myself like, im going to tell you a story one day, like it is it a moving process . It really is. I like that. And i think make a little comment before. Our final question, whenever youre doing research on histories that, tend to be overlooked or just not a lot of information there, theres so much drive to, find out more. And also just find out what what. Well, what was your life . How can i share it . Like, what do you have to share and what can i learn from you . And its its thats why i love this history. Yeah, yeah it is. There is a drive, you know. There is when youre we have more stories that were, you know were working on. But yeah you look at that and you say because well it might heres the thing this why i love the smokies so much because. Theres so much history there. And the history overlaps. But we we do a science podcast as well cause smokey signal and the reason i bring that up is because we in that we interview people from the cherokee tribe and they talked about using this native plant as so can this dream this tender green and they will put you know pig fat in it now boil it slow and you know and then you know just weeks after them doing the history from a gentleman from cards in or chandler North Carolina the park and hes telling this story about we take these grains that were boiling slow with a pig fan and bring that up because the overlap they overlap and it shows how similar. We are as and thats what i love about it and theres not an oral history that i havent done or a conversation that i havent had with descendants of early white settlers or African Americans and native americans. Theyre not talking about hard days on the farm, days where, you know people die young around the smokies, just carving that living, making sort gov moon shining. I mean, all of these all of these different people are talking about the day and thats whats beautiful about this project because, you know, really, its just its, just bringing more equality. This side of the story. Absolutely. Okay. So this is the final question. Cheri, is there an email list i can sign up for to say updated on what organizations are doing with this subject . Or i guess what yall are working on to get more updates on everything youre youve been doing . So yeah, you can you can go to our Great Smoky Mountains page, which is, you know, w w w that is that geography for for last year as you can just look up, you know, Great Smoky Mountains and if you go there, if you go on the history and culture, youll go into the African American experiences project and you can email park through that on main page. We a wonderful visual information especially us and smokies media team where were working to do an update to the page. So the page should we should do an update the next of weeks well put it up and put it up. All these new stories i think, mike i think my favorite thing thats going to happen soon, which may take a couple of months. One, ive been working with our Harpers Ferry center, which a lot of you know, when it comes videos and things like that to take all of our oral histories where people listen to them and those would be on the website in a podcast format and then or doing this thinking the National Park service core story map in and what that is is you have this mapping in this digital map that you can up and you can look at these these points, these gps points, you can go to the history. And so hopefully you know next year well have that where can say i want go check out the the in low slave and learn about Ground Penetrating or i want to learn about more about the elk matt story they can follow those points and you know, if ranger is not there, they can the other great thing is that we we just out we, we just got a National Foundation grant of upwards of close to 100,000. And were going to use that make a video for the africanamerican experience. So that website is going to have tons new stuff in the next year year and a half. So just go to that and keep checking back as well. Thats exciting. I look forward to seeing that. But margaret, you want close this up . I will indeed. Thank you guys, so much for joining us tonight. Antoine, thank you again so much. This was wonderful. We are so were going now are thrilled that we were able to do this because its just such a cool project and its one that we wanted to highlight. If you live in the national area, we hope you can stop by the museum. We do have our in the smokies exhibit so you can kind of tie that into tonights talk, but it is just been a pleasure. I hope everyone wishes you the word iconic is sometimes overused, but miller is certainly an Iconic Company in milwaukees history and in milwaukees present. The Miller Brewing Company Began here back in 1855 and has been heve