Transcripts For CSPAN3 Adam 20240705

Stranger to angelinos. Hes the anchor of abc seven Eyewitness News at four and 6 p. M. Hes produced multiple Award Winning documentaries, two of which have made their way into the smithsonian institution. We welcome to our stage. He served in the United States house of representatives from 2011 to 2023, representing. 16th congressional district. During his tenure, he served on the House Select Committee to investigate the january sixth attack on the United States capitol, as well as the House Committee on energy and commerce and the House Foreign Affairs committee. Gentlemen we welcome you to the stage. Hi, everybody. Yeah, great, great to see you. You can hear our mikes, right . Everybodys mikes. Okay. Can you can you hear his notes . One, two and two. Not hearing him. Try now. There you go. I did have it on and then i that off. Good, good, good. Well, first of all, thank you for for here. Thank you. Yes, im sitting with you because ive always wanted to meet you. And im not just blowing smoke. Shoot at that. Thank you. And i think jim set up was perfect. He talked about this community and. I know many of you are familiar with little and what happened here during world two where so many people were whisked off to concentration camps and this whole community was wiped out and was empty and that was a a classic example of how the constitution was not defended and there were not enough people of courage who were willing to speak up and defend the Tiny Community that was locked up unjustly. They never got their fifth amendment rights and never were able to defend themselves in court and that they were law abiding citizens and never should have been locked up. So that leads us to and the the gentleman sitting to me was one of the few that has the courage and has had the courage to speak up when. Things were wrong when things were not truthful to the point where he eventually was by his own party. And now is on the outside looking in. But maybe thats not necessarily a bad thing. So heres our opportunity to talk to you. Adam thank you so much. Yeah, its great. So. Right off the bat, im just gonna throw you a real simple question. We get into the nitty gritty, and that is why, did you want to write this book . So its kind funny. Somebody told me when was looking at like, should i write a book . Or theyre like, okay, listen, its going to feel like an inherently thing to do to write a book right, because youre going to be like, oh, im going to write something. Me like you guys care about it, but the thing that finally got me to decide to do it is i know that my story in my experience, particularly growing up, but also my time in office from 2011, kind of advent of the tea party. So really in january it tells its a microcosm of the Bigger Picture and you know, we get asked questions a lot and im sure well talk about some of this like whats been happening why is this happening . And i think you can tell in my story a little bit of the answer of whats been going on and why its been going on so the reaction has been great and i think thats just because it helps to shed some light to a very confusing time. Yeah it is confusing. And im sure thats why everybody is here is because wed love to pick your brain and what is happening to our country and how it get this way. I what i love about book is you do lead us from well even before the tea party but you make sense of it from tea party on to to to donald trump. And then there is a very definite connection between the two. But i want to start since we only have a few minutes really kind of to delve into this, im going to jump right. What i think is one of the more dramatic moments, your book and that is youre youre sitting in your office and an angry mob is descending on the capitol. You have your pistol out. This is a Lieutenant Colonel in the air force. So he knows how to use a gun. And he has that. Hes done two tours in iraq. So thank you for your service. But youre sitting there and you. Got a gun on your desk knowing that this mob descending on the capitol, you youre not afraid, youre prepared. But what is going through your mind on how did you get there and how did things get this . First off, thanks for paying your taxes because you let me fly your airplanes, which was really gig. But i look up so i predict that violence actually after the election and specifically january 1st we were on a Conference Call with the conference and if you hear me talking about the Conference Im referring basically every republican member of congress, theres like a republican conference, a democratic conference, and so on. That call on the first. Kevin mccarthy actually. Liz cheney had started and said like, you guys gave this very compelling of why you have to vote to certify the and then Kevin Mccarthy on and goes like liz speaks for herself not for the whole conference and then he basically informed us that he was going to vote against certification that surprised me honestly, because typically leadership takes, the hard votes and at this point the hard vote unfortunately was to vote to certify. So i said i was the first congressman to go after. The leadership had given their presentation. And i just kevin, theres going to be violence on the sixth. I mean, i look at twitter, there are threats against me. There are people that are talking about coming on the sixth and in essence, 1776. Youve convinced you and donald trump and whoever have convinced a significant part of this country that an election was stolen. I mean, truly patriotic americans, that have had their patriotism abused. Youve convinced them that an election was stolen. Theres going to be violence. Thats the thats a natural act. His reaction to me was just adam, next caller. Next person. A guy, whatever. So that day of the sixth, i told my staff to stay home. I used to say i told my wife to stay home and i learned that i ask her to stay home. I, i, you know, i may have been married or may have been born night, but not last night. But i asked her to stay home. And so i was the only one in the office. And because i just knew something was going to happen and i was seeing around the capitol the capitol was closed. But i was still seeing like groups of kind of maga in the capitol. And im like pa this weird. Anyway, i go to floor of the house, i kind of get the somethings happening before really anybody. I left the floor during the proceedings and went back to my office and by the time i got back there all hell was breaking. And we had had the initial lockdown call because of the pipe bombs that were found at the rnc and the dnc and i go back to my office and open my window and my window of my office, which would be behind my desk, overlooks the west front of the capitol. And that west front is where you saw all the all the fights. And i just heard bang pop like explosions. And it was d. C. Metro police had just shown up and they were using their nonlethal munition was it had d. C. Metro not shown up when they did they showed up with like 600 officers. The capitol have been sacked, would have been destroyed like they are Unsung Heroes among the police force and i called my wife and we were talking we were shes like, go to cspan dot org. And theres all these different like views of the capitol. And i went to cspan dot org and i statuary hall which is this beautiful it was the original floor, the house just off the the big floor of the house now. And i. Saw the first rioters come in are insurrectionists come in, you know with their goofy clothes and stuff. And and ill tell you ladies and gentlemen, let me just. Fair warning. Im a christian. I take my faith seriously, but im not one of these. It feels like incense is evil or anything. All right. I did that day. I cant describe it. I cant explain it beyond. But when i talk to my wife and i saw this happening, there was this dark that i just felt that i cannot describe, just like a black veil and thats when i had pulled my gun out and put it on the desk, because i knew at point once they pierced the capitol, the perimeter there, there, there were threats all over to come kill me. All they to do was was basically walk to my office at that point. So barricaded myself in with my gun out. And ill say there was about a 30 minute period where i thought might have to use it. And thats a thats a really crappy feeling, especially as a military and somebody that went into to try to stop violence from happening. Right. So tell me about the others, because theres all this rumor of soandso did this, soandso did that. Was there fear because what we saw later on in the days to come, people suddenly beginning amnesia to how awful the situation really was. I mean, this was our constitution in coming to a halt, an insurrection is trying to basically end our country as we know it. There was not i will say honestly there was not a Single Person in there that was not scared to death. Which is funny when you think about the fact that those same people are the ones out calling it a tourist visit and, everything else. And so what happened is theyre all scared to death that day but still 138 of them vote against certifying the election was to me, kind of the beginning of like, hmm maybe maybe wont learn our lesson from this moment but what happened is for about two weeks, you know, youre in these conference meetings, everybodys quiet. Were all swapping stories. Oh, well, i was here when this happened and then i saw this happen, right. You know, like, if youre in a fight or you see a fight, know, and everybody gets together and talks about it, that was happening for and nobody knew where this was going to go. Nobody knew was going to come from this until your native son, Kevin Mccarthy, california, until he showed up at mar lago. And the second he showed up at mar a lago and picture of him and donald trump came out. Thats when i saw it. Not people enthusiast actually backing donald trump again, but kind of this like kind of beat puppy look where its just like, oh, no, well, we have to support him again. And then the enthusiasm for him. Rose so, kevin himself and im not going to say that donald trump wouldnt be where he was him, but i think theres a really chance he wouldnt have been. Trump was in the political until mccarthy showed up, took the little paddles from the ambulance the political ambulance and him back to life. Thats interesting and and i do want to talk about Kevin Mccarthy in a little while whats been in the news lately . You probably know what im talking about, but well get to that. Good. And they also want to talk about your religious, too. I think thats important to your story. But first, i think its important for us to understand who these people are that invaded the capital. Yeah. And you wrote the b c. They want to make themselves into action. Trump marauders were ignorant of current events. American history and the constitution full of false self righteousness. I think its important to understand these people are and why they did what they did in order for us to figure out whats wrong with america and get a deeper understanding of how do we fix this. So some of its visions of grandeur, this like idea that, you know, im going to be the savior of some of it is abuse peoples patriotism but bottom line comes down to their there is this actual war against kind of good and evil there of course on the good side, by the way, everybody, no matter what, thinks theyre the good guy, just thats something good to keep in mind in any conflict. And so they basically see part of the q and on when you hear about q and on and i tell you that there are people that truly believe and a significant number of people that truly believe that the government is run by satan worshiping child blood drinkers. Okay and a significant number of those people were were there on january six. You also had Christian Nationalists that were there on january six. You that if youre not familiar with too much of that kind of faith, you wouldnt have seen the symbolism that i saw, which is people blowing horns like the shofar, which symbolizes in time stuff. There was a jericho march around the capital the day before, so it was people that were convinced by failures from the pulpit of churches by the way, they were convinced that was the kind of armageddon the fight against good and evil. So it was a combination of people that had been had their patriotism abused, people that were like cosplaying civil war because there was also a group of folks that think that a civil war is hanging out with your friends by the, you know, by the campfire and shooting people you dont like. And they have this like, wonderful idea of a civil war. And then some are people that have been abused from their faith perspective to believe that this is a battle against good evil. So its all of that. But it comes from this idea that they feel left behind. They feel ignored and and quite honestly, that happens any time you get an Unstable Society when a majority, particularly a racial group in a majority, becomes the minority, even though technically white, is becoming a minority, itll the large, you know, its just not over 51 . And that creates a real concern among people so i think its of an all of the above along lines and you mentioned Christian Nationalism you were raised a religious yeah but you make it very clear in this book that you see a marked difference between Christian National ism and your kind of christianity and what nationalism has become and how it has fed into the Republican Party is part of this problem. Yeah so christianity as ive gotten older and understood better to me is, you know if you look at and and just bear with me as i talk about this, if you look at the example jesus in the bible, he said, give caesar what caesars and gods gods. What are you saying . And his and his disciples were constantly like, hey, when are we going to overthrow rome . And hes like, you guys are missing point. Im not here to overthrow the government right. Well, what you see in is directly what youre seeing like in the january six stuff and in Christian Nationalism, which is this idea that christianity is about overthrowing government or its about frankly no different than the taliban. All honesty, its about a running the government. And part of that is an abuse again from the pastors that that at the pulpit part of is just a complete misunderstanding of what christian anti is. And so i was independent fundamental baptist. Ive learned if youre ever in a religion that has to like adjectives before it its probably a cult or close to it and so i was raised independent fundamental baptist i now consider myself protestant nondenominational and which doesnt have added adjectives, just protestant. Okay. But i, you know, and part of that was just a control on how you act, a control on who you hang out with. And again this idea that somehow governance represents this broader battle of good and evil. And so theres a massive difference between the faith. I practice and understand now the jesus follow actually believes that immigrants worth and value and they should be treated as human beings and that everybody has and if to respect differences and all that kind of stuff, because he loved people, Christian Nationalism hates anybody that doesnt believe exactly what they do. I consider you and i were talking backstage and im like, i consider it the same as the crusades the crusades were all about killing. They had nothing to do with a faith. Faith became just kind of a flag attached to an essence to identify who you are i mean, look at the number of people claim to be christians, you know, fighting for donald trump that have never been to church a day in their life. Because what christianity becomes is a synonym for white. White america. So the racial undertones obvious . Yeah. Yeah, i think its and i wouldnt say its directly like, you know, somebody like black people, they dont like hispanic people, but its a cultural thing. So, you know, i mean, find obviously black and hispanic in the major groups they and they exist in growing numbers but its a cultural idea which is some of it is a racial undertone. Some of it is, you know, america sure aint what it used to be. Well, americas never what it used to be, because its a growing and evolving country. And, you know so i think theres some of that there. Yeah if you ask africanamericans the old america of the good old days, its a different thing. There was no such thing. Thats right so lets get into why they dont know the truth theyre uninformed and we have to bring in and granted yes i work for abc but im going to say it you know fox news and a lot of their pundits have feeding misinformation knowingly. And what were finding out in various court cases knowingly feeding this information and thats only source of information. These people, as well as these extreme places on, the internet. So how do you reach people with the truth . The truth no longer resonates with certain groups of people . Well, were both media guys, so im like im part of evil cnn. Right, which i love cnn, but yeah, i think so. What happens . People went like, im going to watch the and sometimes see things that challenged me and challenged my way thinking or see a different side. Stuff. You know, when you present the news, you present in essence, both sides or just facts, right . Well, what happened is starting in the nineties with am radio and rush limbaugh, people started to realize Media Companies started to realize person ality started to realize that and anger is a huge addiction. So theres this dopamine hit comes with fear. This dopamine hit that comes with the anger. I mean weve all been in situations we have to admit where weve been watching. You know, cnn, fox or msnbc and just hooked on this thing, making us angry. Well, thats the dopamine and what you know, rush learned as the angry roommate he made you the more youd listen to him and, the more the commercials he could make, the more hed make commercials the internet then came and realized if they created, you know, stories that that fit what you wanted to see and made you mad, youd click on them many, many more. And then politicians the scary thing. So fox news did that you know newsmax which actually newsmax used to be like a pretty sane conservative. You know, website. Now its a crazy tv station. And then politics begins. And this is when it got kind of out of control. We learned that the best way to raise money is fear and if i convince you that nancy pelosi is going to kill your family unless you like elect me, okay . And i say that kind of facetiously, but thats sort of whats happening in this. You will part with anything, including your fixed Social Security income. If you think the thing standing between your certain death or an america that doesnt include you and the other and so politicians have learned to raise a ton of money and fame on fear and anger and now thats a toxic stew right and while this community understands that because it was the governor of california used fear to promote the fact that japaneseamericans need to be in the camps and so its a its a bit of history that repeats itself and thus the uninformed if you know your history, sometimes you can navigate your way through that. But if youre ignorant to our history, which most people are, then thats why we see it repeated and over again. Yeah. So what is Republican Party today . I mean, this is i mean, this is your party. Sure. You were proud on your first day to become a u. S. Representative and. Im sure you had giant dreams of what you could accomplish in that position, only to find the party to be what it is today, only to find yourself ostracized for telling the truth. So what is this party . Well, look, im saying this not in any bragging way. I could have been the star of the gop if i wanted to. I came in as the youngest member of congress or next the youngest member of congress. I was the second post911 veteran. You know, i was all over tv as freshman and and then i was proud of it because, look, im a center right . Im much more moderate today than i was as a freshman. But thats a function of age and kind of growing and maturing and seeing things. But i think this country, a solid conservative and a solid progressive movement, because what happens is that tug and pull, that tension actually ends up kind of moving the country along. Generally at the rate it should. Not too fast, not too. And but the Republican Party, it exists as an institution, but theres no conservative movement anymore. The Republican Party doesnt believe in anything. I mean, are they for less spending only if bidens the president , you know, are they for afghanis like not leaving afghanistan. Yeah, are when biden was president. But they were all about donald trump. You know creating the situation to leave anyway. Josh hawley whos a clown by the way, i want to be very clear like running josh spirit and Josh Josh Hawley just tweeted that biden has answer questions because theres this rumor that ukraine blew up the nord stream two pipeline. First off, i dont know if they did if they did good, but like josh hawley was also attacking biden for not being harsh enough against for nord stream two before nord stream two was canceled. Theres no theres no principle. The principle is, are we surround donald trump and donald trump is our man and whatever he wants will be for that moment. And also, lets own the liberals. It is a culture. It is a party that now exists simply on a cultural fight and not on any policies. So i personally havent gotten rid of the title republican because once you do like as a republican criticizing the Republican Party, i have much more authority to do it. Once i said that people dont listen to me as much and i also think there has to be a sort there has to be normal republicans fighting for the future of the party. But i didnt republican last election. I dont to vote in this election because i think theres one issue on the ballot and is democracy. And thats the only issue on the ballot in 2024. Yeah, theres a to get through on that. I want to kind of a follow up, but i do want to, you know, an observation when i was covering and you may remember this, the Republican National convention, when romney and ryan were the nominees, there was a ticker around the stadium and that ticker was the National Debt going higher and higher. And you can really watch it. Mhm. So i remember that and then fast forward to when donald trump is passing his tax cut which was going to astronomically in historically raise our National Debt and suddenly the Republican Party is like oh thats no big deal, thats fine now, but now weve come full circle. Now that biden is president , its become an issue. It yep, yep its so they do its constant flipping and i think we all have to recognize that the debts out of control and all us have to kind of jump off the the bridge proverbially and do things we dont want because its pretty but the republicans dont have a right to own the issue because when i was in we skyrocketed the debt i think even more than whats been done under any of the democratic administrations. So when it comes to you evolving a politician, would you ever run as a democrat . Id open to it. Im not im not like stuck on the title. If the democrats would, id welcome somebody like me, a moderate. Yes. I mean, i have nothing against Democratic Party at all. And so wouldnt i. I have no desire to be in the house representatives ever again in my life. Theres not been 5 seconds. Ive missed it that i only wish i could be there to for ukraine right now because that to is the fight of our generation, the fight in ukraine and. But yeah, i would run as a democrat id run as id run as a sane republican. Okay, well, im stealing this from what i saw online a little while ico. So its not my original question. I find it fascinating that you live in. Oh, yeah. And then you you talk about ted cruz quite a bit in there in your book. And hes not your favorite guy. Not not much. No. And he he might coming out. But i think its four years though. So you have time to kind of settle in and to get this out. That would be a fun race to run. Ted cruz. I mean, hes such a loser, such a charlatan. The thing is, like, i respect, i dont really but i mean, i have more respect for people that actually believe what theyre saying because its like at least they believe it. Hes just like if being a moderate was what got him attention, hed be a moderate. Like, he doesnt care about you and he doesnt about policy. Well, i want to if you can indulge me, one more guilty pleasure, and that is the the elbowing story that he had yesterday. But what was i thought it sitting, knowing that i was going to do this interview, your name kept popping up because you had openly talked about being shoved by mccarthy a couple of times in the past as well. Tell me about that, by the way. Like, i dont know. Im not going to go there. That could get me in trouble. So after so mccarthy and i used to be really good friends when he was trying to be like this kind of normal republican. And then he obviously went off the rails with. And so i probably about right when the january Six Committee started, im standing on the back rail in the house just, kind of like, you know, leaning over the railing and all of a sudden, boom, i get hit. Im like, well, i turn around and mccarthy is like ten feet away now, walking away. And his security is fall on him. And im like, my first reaction was just of to revert back to when we were friends. And im like haha you just and then im like, wait i mccarthy i hate each other now and like he just shoulder checked on purpose. Okay like just to be like tough guy thing. And im like, okay, whatever. In a week or two or three weeks later, he did it again and we were walking past each other and he leans over and goes, boom and it hits me. And just like, what a child, what an emotional child and what it is is when you compromise and your values and hit you really and he knows hes done thats like he knows trump is not a good guy. Hes told me in the past. And its like when do that you hes not projecting like hes angry at himself and so hes projecting on to the people have opposed him and when i was on the january Six Committee everything i would say every reminded him of how he didnt have the strength and courage to say the same things. And so i think thats what happened. But so then when this happens three or four days ago, its a birch. He elbows him hard. The kidneys, evidently, and then he tries to play it off like, oh, no, it must have been an accidental hit. And the media is like, well, you know, kinzinger, in his book that just came out and hes like and he kind of is like, oh, i dont know anything about that. Yeah, youre right. I just made that. Yeah. Ironically, the the inner workings of congress which is great. But you mentioned, you know, theres the january six select committee. So thats kind of like really getting into the nitty gritty of your identity. And well, i hate to the word downfall because, you know, youre a hero to us because. You did it may not be in congress anymore, but it doesnt mean youre not part of our future. So what was it like to be on that committee . What . And you also voted to impeach trump and you were vilified for too what was going through your mind as you debated whether or not to be part of this and to participate, knowing that this would be your demise . You know, theres a moment so in politics and i dont who you are if you into politics, theres compromises. You have make. You know, theres always going to be you vote for you didnt love something. You got to go along with it. You dont love. And thats the nature of frankly constitutional. You represent people you know. But there is point and there should be a line in. Everybodys life that youre unwilling to cross. There should be a moment where youre like okay. I can go this far, but no further. This is and i have a new kid, you know. So i remember this when i ran for congress, i had just gotten back iraq and i wear on my wrist andrea okeefe, who was a friend of mine that was killed in iraq in 2018. But when i ran. He hadnt died yet. But i remember coming back and saying, if im going to take votes as, a congressman that are going to send people to war and die for this, and we need people willing to do that right, literally the ultimate sacrifice. But if young people are going to die this country, i have to, as a member of congress, be willing to put my job on the line. The country if im going to ask somebody to, give their life. I have to be willing to give my job right and i and that stuck with me all my time in congress. I thought about that a lot. And when i thought id end up voting to like reform Social Security and that might me i didnt know it would be like, you know, democracy but and it just came to the point with the with the impeachment, obviously, with january six, with the lies, my biggest burden of everything was the fact that for democracy to survive you dont have to agree on any issues, but you do have to agree that you can vote and your vote counts. And the person that gets most votes wins when that trust is destroyed, you cant selfgovern. Like thats the thing that you have have and thats the only thing you have to have. But thats the story. Donald trump did his to destroy that. And hes still trying to destroy that. And hes got minions him so it hit the point with my red line where im like you what how am i ever going to look at my six month old at the time two month old, whatever he was then . How am i going to ever look at him in the eye and tell him to do the right thing no matter how hard it is if im unwilling to do the right thing and you hit a moment where its like the chips are in this job is not worth my soul and im going to go out with a bang and im going to go out, tell them the truth and i have zero zero regrets never a second have i ever regretted it and i would do it all again. So i recall watching the hearing. You speak, seeing liz cheney speak, knowing you guys were republicans, you were adding credibility to this this. But what was it like behind the scenes when you get off that and youve just done what youve done . Did people still talk to you. Yeah, it was interesting so probably the most is all my friends i thought were friends. Right that werent you learn this because they basically you by text. Ive i literally got a letter a couple days after i voted to impeach sent certify to my parents house and you know we had to go into hiding my wife and i for about a month after the Impeachment Vote because of the threats we hid we didnt hide but we went to a place in florida a friends house and there you know and then we know youre doing all this stuff and i get back and my dads cousin sent a certified letter, 13 of them signed it, disowning, saying, what a disappointment that you are. Youre a member of the devils army like just brain worms. It was brain worms like written out and you know, and my copilot in iraq just a year ago sends me a text says hes ashamed to have ever flown with me and served with me. That would hurt most. And, you know, and its like, why . Because i told you the truth and you dont want to hear the truth. But on the floor of the house for the first part of the january six hearings those that kind of first half of all that everybody on the floor would come up to me and to me still and joke me and a lot of people that would amaze you could come up and be like, thanks doing it. The same people that go on tv and be like, this is a partizan committee that, you know, theyd thanks for doing it. I cant do it because of my district. But whatever. Im like, listen, my district is not with me either. But by the way, you an oath not to the 700,000 people in your district when it comes to a constitutional issue im sorry to say it, the hundred thousand people you represent their opinions are absolutely irrelevant, absolutely irrelevant. If every one of the people in my district said we demand that you as our congressmen against impeachment, it is absolutely irrelevant because i an oath to the constitution not to them and the constitution was a threat. And i would try to tell this to my and they oh, you know, ill never get reelected. Im like, okay, great. You cant look at yourself in the mirror either. So it was it was a strange couple of years it was it was a weird couple of years the oath is where id like to kind of get to near the end of this. I want to touch on the fact that since your district now hates you, your family hates, you, my immediate family, your immediate families go there. But and this was my question when you announced it was, you said, im not going to run for reelection, which is so disappointing. You explained it in the book and i think peoples knee jerk reaction no stay in the fight we you but why did you not. Well its a couple of things you do a couple in vietnam. You dont have to go back for your third leg at some point. Done enough. The on my family was intense. The democrats in illinois drew me out of my district by the way after saying that adams the exact kind of republican we need, they drew me out my district because they controlled redistricting. I probably as importantly, i had been in Congress Years and thats a long time im sure i would have run again anyway, even without the january 6th stuff. But most importantly i couldnt win. I mean, i not make it through a primary with what i had done because i had gone after the cheeto god would call you know i advice violated this religion now i mean literally to these people its the same as if youre at church and youre like, i dont really believe in jesus anymore. Theyd be like, well, get out of the church, go to a different, you know, whatever. Thats what its like. And knew i couldnt win. And so yeah, theres something heroic about saying, well, you should have run anyway. And it the fight like liz cheney did and i respect her for doing it. But then also giving them the satisfaction of beating. And as of right now, ive never lost an election. And its a great transition because i did want to talk to you about liz cheney. She was super important on that committee with. You what was she like . And i could you have a great deal of respect for her and then. And also the parallel of the fact that she lived the same faith that you did. Liz cheney was the linchpin, the success of that committee. And for reasons number one, her voice a lot of credibility because know im kind of a moderate republican. I was on there. People are kind of like, well, yeah, hes moderate, whatever. She was like the you know, she made me look friggin nancy pelosi in comparison, you know, shes got a famous name. But most important liz the work she did i mean she understands law like nobody ive ever met she she were what she was working id say probably 19 hours a day from the day we formed that committee till we took the final report simply on this work. We would go home for the weekends, stayed in virginia. She was in deposition. She saw big picture and she could put everything together. When some of us couldnt put this in this piece together, we had an amazing we had amazing members. It was like god himself. Honestly, the committee, because each person that committee had a unique thing they that they brought to the table hers was the ability to bring it all together. Schiff by the way, and i had been friends with schiff prior to this, but heres a story because i know hes a local guy, right . When we get to the committee the first thing i did, i dubbed in the committee adam senior and then myself adam junior, because i wanted to make the point that he was older and he got ticked. Hes like, no, no, you cant call me adam senior. And everybody on the committee from that point forward called him adam senior. So i succeeded. That was the one thing i wanted to do, even than january six. I want to do it now. Kidding. But everybody brought something unique. So cheney was the bulldog that really caused this thing to succeed. Now, there were moments she rubbed each one of us the wrong way because shes very shes just like her dad. Right. Very intense. But you could see, you know, and she would relent when we had a good. So its not she wasnt a bully about that. But you could see that hurt, tenacity. I mean, we had like 20 lawsuits going at any given about trying to get this person testify or get these phone records. She knew all these lawsuits i got so lost in all these lawsuits that were having. Im not a and so that great the other one thats really kind of heroic is Bennie Thompson because bennie is the only in congress that be the chairman of a committee was so famous at the moment that was so you know, the whole nation was watching and he was okay giving the spotlight to other people because any other person in congress would want to take the spotlight for themselves in that position. And he recognized that liz and i needed the spotlights to add that credibility. So without him, i you know, its literally like god himself authored committee. It was pretty amazing. So the end result of that committee, you put out tons of information. Things seemed so obvious. Yet its turning a boat. Its i guess its in the process and still taking a long. How do you feel about the outcome of all your hard work . Well, the only disappointment i is i was hoping it would wake up more republicans obviously, i think it woke up. Theres a small minority of republicans that are supporting like Chris Christie now because they cant stand that. And, you know, and so those exist. And i think we need to minimize them. But the country heres the one thing i know. My kid, in five or ten years, probably ten years when hes learning this in school, maybe 13 years, whatever, hes first off, hes going to be proud of his last name, which means a lot because. A lot of my colleagues are going to have kids that are ashamed of their last name. And secondly hes going to hear the truth because history, it takes sometimes 20, 30, 40 years to get it right. What happened. What we put out was a complete a complete synopsis of what went down as complete. We can get in a short amount of time. Hes going to learn the truth. Hes not going to think it was the fbi i think in ten years theres not going be a Single Person that admits they were a trump supporter. Thats what i predict. Itll be like finding a nixon supporter, right . There were a lot more at the time. And then but lastly, it was extremely successful. The department of justice would not doing what theyre doing right now without us. And i know that for a fact. Donald trump be in jail, i believe and i think it is 100 because of the work of the committee. Well. I want to get to your optimism in just a second, but but first, im going to you to the dark side and play the what if which. Yeah. Really sucks. I know for you, but yeah. What if donald trump wins . What plays . And gentlemen, do not scoff at this. It is very possible that he wins. I mean, the and the thing is, now, even in just the last few weeks, weve gone from when would say to somebody like donald trump can where they laugh and goes oh, i dont dont that and now i think people understand it which is good. You have to recognize because we cannot rest on our laurels if wins. Look, i really think democracys a threat and im not speaking, im not proverbial, im not speaking metaphorically. I really see that we have a very hard time holding guardrails of democracy together because donald trump winning in 2017 and the people were put around him were generally decent people. Now hes only going to put he knows what to do. Now hes only going to put people around him that will to put him over the constitution. You know, love or hate, bill, bill barr at the right time, basically held the line against donald trump. Hes going to put the opposite of bill barr and hes going to interview 20 people and find the one that says, i dont about the constitution. I only care about what you want me to do. And by the way, the power that the president actually has over the department of justice is frightening, to be honest with you because he can demand the department of justice do something and thats why i i say to my democratic friends be careful going after the Supreme Court, because the Supreme Court has held these democratic norms in order. And weve got to try to keep that institution, even if you disagree the policies coming out as legitimized as possible because we may have to lean on the Supreme Court under a donald trump administration, but it is a very frightening possibility. And i would say this. Make sure you vote. This is why im concerned. As much as id love to have a third party, im concerned about third parties this election because, all theyll do is take like im going to vote joe biden, but theyre going to take people me and give somebody an excuse to, not vote for joe biden and. Thats very dangerous. So this is a serious. Now, the good news is, if we get through this and i am going to say if we get through this, i think 2028 is going to be marvelous, think its going to be an amazing president ial year. And i think a new American Century is going to bloom from this because itll be a new generation, new ideas, all new candidates. I think thatll be good for the country and well, thats but thats a big if they if it is the l. A. Times the New York Times came out with a couple of weeks ago looking at all the swing states. And right now, trump is winning almost all of them. And i got to tell you. Ive been talking to people that are biden fans that were biden fans. Its very anecdotal. So just take that for what it is. But people i know that are now talking like i may vote for, i may vote for trump or i may stay home. Yeah, i dont. And i know why theres something going on under that underneath. But it means we have to be on the offense on this and i think joe biden could do a good job of selling the message that democracy is on the line. And thats what he needs to sell. Well, democracy in its most fundamental state is, you know, the person with the most votes wins. We havent seen that right. It is the Electoral College broken it. Does it work against . Yeah. I mean, look, its the problem is you need a constitutional amendment, but think its time to get rid of it because, you know, look, we dont live in a time where news travels by horse and buggy anymore, right . If something happens, the whole country knows about it in the speed of light. And, you know, the president is not the president of different states now. Hes the president of the whole country. And so i think its time just basically have a general vote. Right. And the winner of the vote wins. But were were probably a long way off from that well this is allegedly not your party the democrats but the big knock on President Biden is his age even though hes very close to the same age as donald trump. Yeah, but he seems, you know, thats his vulnerability. Is there anybody else out there that you would like to see run against donald trump as opposed to President Biden . Well, look, i would look for in the primary side of it, id love to see like Chris Christie just hes hes a truth teller on the democratic side. Dont know the candidates. I mean, i know your governors obviously interested and hes in the mix and i dont i didnt really understand why he went to china recently. That was kind of a conceit that confused me a little bit. But i know hell be in the mix. I mean, theres actually a lot of talent on the democratic side. Youve just got to bring that talent forward. And i think theres a lot of talent not the republican side, because anybody that was ever, you know, supportive of donald trump i think is disqualified. But i think if you can clean the party and make it a party thats truly about like ideas, you could bring a lot of talent in, but i do think the democrats have a fairly strong bench. But the at least congress, the one thing republicans did better than democrats is we term limited leadership positions. And so you could only be a chairman of the Committee Six years. And so there was always lot of churn and then it wasnt the next person in order you actually competed to the chairman. I think that would be beneficial to the Democratic Party to do that. Yeah. Okay. So i love this quote in your and its near the conclusion and why i wrote it down. But it said you said laws are just words on paper. They mean nothing without Public Servants dedicated to the rule of law and who are held accountable by a that believes oaths matter oaths matter more than party tribalism or the cheap thrill of scoring political points. We the people must demand more of our politicians and ourselves oaths matter you know explain. Well, bottom line, dc is not going fix this moment. Were in what ultimately theyll do whatever they need to do to get reelected. Thats something im cynical in and maybe i should have always been cynical about it, but its just like people, dont go to dc really with a compass. They just go there and they try to get reelected. Their moral compass comes from the demands of the people that put them in, if the people that put them in have moral compass and in essence demand they act like that, they will. If we get as just the american people, if we get into lets lets get in fights, the internet, whats on the libs or on the conservatives or whatever and lets have serious discussions. Theyre not going to have serious discussions either. If we dont honor the oath wont either. And this is the thing, people i think, by the way, 99 be honest, 99 of the republicans in the house right now are totally disqualified. In my mind, because they dont honor their oath maybe 100 . But what matters is, no matter what the Supreme Court says, no matter what law exists, no matter anything, none of that actually works, unless we have that contract i was talking about earlier about the voting thing, but also under standing that laws work. We trust that laws work. Were going to obey a law because weve decided as a society will obey. Right. And thats that oath is is youre committing to that basic structure of governance. But if all of a sudden our politicians decide, i dont care what anybody says, were just going to act. And as fast just then theres no law you can put down thats going to stop that from happening. And thats what we to demand of people. This is california and its going to vote democratic one for the president right. So kind of. As a final question before we open it up, what can people in california do to help with a president ial election . Well, obviously vote. Thats important. I think just first off, the one thing i would say is take that weight of the world. You carry that we all kind of carry with all the bad stuff happening and just take that weight and put it down. It doesnt mean disengage. Im actually telling you that because we carry that weight, we get exhausted, we give up like put down. Love your family. Love who think differently than you. Its okay right. Theyre not going to bite. But just put that down so that you stay engaged and so that you stay empathetic and you can actually be effective. Obviously, theres tons of stuff you can do on new media and social media and all that kind of stuff. But the most important thing you can do in is vote you guys. We do know how the election is going to go, but that doesnt mean you dont have an impact that so thats going to be important as and of course you have that in your senators and in congress and in state reps and state senators as well as hold them accountable to great. Ted you want ask some questions. Yeah. Thanks to of you who sent in questions. Heres a first one. Were a week away from thanksgiving, an occasion that is a time to bring families together. But however, the last few years, politics has been a big divider. And even in your family, youve been disowned . Yeah. What thanksgiving be like at your home this week next week mine will be great because all those people just me. I dont give a rats about them honestly. Like, i really dont. I have forgiven them. Just myself. Right, because you want to hold on to that. Its always important to do that. But i have zero desire to up with them like thats on i didnt im not the ahole in this situation they are so theyre not but you know my immediate family of course is great but i would say this when it comes to thanksgiving, like if you if youre and most people have problem where its like okay theres going be somebody at thanksgiving that says things. It takes off and you know, they cant help. It is worse. You love this person sending a text, an email and just being like, can we all us all a favor and lets all stay away from politics this year because once you can do that and if you have an agreement to stay away from it can actually enjoy being around each other. It is a problem in this country that were were separated into groups of people that all think the same left and right. So i think less of thats better. Gentleman says being an myself one of my biggest disappoint minutes where all the military and exmilitary participated in the insurrection. I would like to thank you for helping to my faith in my fellow veterans. Are your thoughts about that . Yeah, thats really disappointing to me as well. You know, the military is the last institution in government that has bipartisan support and that is essential. I knew during a while, january six was going down. I knew that matter how bad it got. At the end of the day, you had the break glass in case of emergency, which is the National Guard and federal forces. You needed them. And it was nice know that they were going to come in and restore order if we needed that. What we saw on january six was a lot of veterans, some active duty members. You cant control how people, what you can control is when i joined and when the veteran out here joined as well like ask you are you a member . Are you a communist are you a member of a terrorist group . Have you ever been a member associated with a group that wants to overthrow the United States government that needs to include things like proud boys needs to include light papers, which i dont even understand fully what they are. But those groups that to overthrow the government. And then the other thing like when people come home from military, like being a a guy and being at war is like it feels like the height of like what you are built to do and get like you just you fighting for your country. Youre fighting with your brothers and sisters and you come home and its like youll never reach that high again ever, no matter what you do. And thats good but it is. Its and so i think a lot of people come back feeling kind of hopeless or, feeling like they dont have a mission, and then somebody comes along and puts. Its the same way gangs recruit. They put their arm around them and said, like, were going to give you a purpose. By the way, your governments under attack. You want to keep fighting for americans. Heres, heres, heres what were going to. And i think thats a huge problem. People dont have a mission after. The military i feel the middle is where most of america is. That is also where i feel National Politics is. And the general position on many issues. Yet the loudest voices of the Democratic Party and the Republican Party push agendas on the extremes of both sides. How can a centrist candidate or centrist positions get . Thats a good question, because i actually agree with this, that i think most americans are moderate generally. You know the problem is is in a two party system its boiled down our understanding issues to two positions. You know lets take the issue of abortion theres prolife and prochoice. Actually, thats totally wrong. Theres actually like 50 positions on abortion just so you guys know. You know, are for a ban at this point or. Not at this point. Or, you know, you can go through and find 50 different positions. People think same with guns, same with same with every issue. But weve been ingrained believe theres only two sides. And so that is a disadvantage to. For instance, creating a new party so within the partys i think structurally a big change would be something you guys do jungle primaries here which i think is really youre election system is good on that things like ranked Choice Voting which forces candidates to attract the middle more. The other thing is vote in a primary right if one of the things i have an Organization Country first and we actually in North Carolina we were focusing on turning democrats out to vote in the republican primary and madison cawthorn, the district, because we said, look, youre going to have a republican representative, right . You can either just vote for the democrat and whatever or you can vote in the republican primary for somebody thats madison cawthorn. And we turned out 5000 democrats and he lost by 3500 votes. Well, those are ways you can make a difference. So i think i think just being if youre running for office and youre a moderate, be a moderate and expressed to people what you believe. But the real key on that is is through the primaries in opinion what percentage of the republican truly believe in trump as being good for our country, short of them being voted out and are in very protected, gerrymandered mander districts . Is there any hope that they will truly see what is truly for the country . Oh, thats a great question. So i think census election there actually people that ran because believed donald trump was a real god and some of them got elected. So outside of that the that i served with if you put them all in cia truth serum theres not a Single Person that i think truly believed the election was theres only few that maybe believe donald trump was good for the country. But the rest of them, like matt gates and that that guy, theyre all about fame. Thats all he wants. He wants to be famous. I think and im actually i would almost rather there be people that truly this in congress then the fact that there are people that dont they go along with it because you now see how adolf hitler comes to power right. How does he come to power . Well, most the people knew that he was crazy, but they were going to go along with it because they didnt want to lose their jobs. And so its depressingly high. The number of people that know hes pretty bad for this country. Does the average american really need an ar 15 rifle for personal use aside from the right to . Have one . No, i dont think they need them. No. As a democrat, i consider myself fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I believe in a robust and healthy Republican Party where ideas be shared and debated with democrats and vice versa in order to a compromise and pass legitimate legislation and in the current political climate, i dont see republicans prepared to practice democracy in manner. No, theyre not. I mean, theyre just not an. Heres the interesting thing. So theres i told you, theres like a sick party and a Healthy Party right now. The thing i worry about and i want to make this point is democrats have every right to kind of mimic what republicans are doing. You know to be authoritarian kind of like by or the highway. I would just ask that they dont because right now it is the only party thats actually holding up that flame of democracy and so keep holding that flame because if if the Democratic Party succumbs to the anger that the Republican Party has i dont know how you come back from that i dont know if you do so in terms of the compromise. Yeah i dont think i dont think in the next year or so going to be any compromises like that i will say to joe bidens credit because i voted for a lot of this stuff. Hes actually been one of the most successful president s in terms of passing things. He doesnt get credit for it. But like i was the only republican to vote for the chips act, which is whats weird. I voted for it. The republicans basically the chips act. And then when biden decided to go with it, they turned against it and it was like, thats what happened. I for the infrastructure bill, you know, that kind of stuff. And so i think theres still room to stuff like that done, but i think we have to get through election cycle. But ladies and gentlemen listen, the debt has got to be dealt with and the question is a fiscal conservative we spent more this year on interest on the debt than on the military, which is a very frightening thing to think about. Well, people tell me all the time that we spend too much on the military. I disagree, but i get the point right. We spent 800 billion on interest, which is a pointless expenditure. And yet were fighting, sending arms and spending. Youre crazy. Yes, exactly. Its not. Its nuts. The priorities are not. Gentlemen says i immigrated to the us in the eighties. I was in awe of how government worked in america. I watched cspan to learn about congress. I watched a vigorous debate on legislation from both sides. And when a bill passed, both sides acknowledged each others efforts and acknowledged that at the end of the day, they were working the american people. I thought to myself, many countries in the world learn from this now. I watch and im not so sure how has all of this impacted our reputation globally. Okay, so ill answer that question and then i want to hit you with something else. So its definitely heard it because i think and this is something that i would need 30 minutes to get into depth and talk about. Ill just touch on it very quickly, which is i think Americas Mission in the world is to be an example of selfgovernance to billions of people that dont have what we have but are desperate for it, like the iron curtain came down because the Third Generation had enough of america and decided they that right we change lives, not just our own lives. We change around the world. And so, yes, its taken a hit and its very sad. But i said this kind of the cuff on the very first hearing on the january six thing, im like democracies arent defined by bad days. Like i france has a riot every week i see yellow vest riots in the vest and the purple heart riot or whatever it is like. But you know, theyre healthy, a healthy democracy like. We had an insurrection that was a really bad day. Were in a really bad moment. What will define us . History correctly is how we back from this. Do we take inventory of this moment and do we make like the low point or we just feel like its too hard and we just give up and it gets worse. And thats what thats whats yet to be written. I will say that every generation in america has actually left the next better off than theirs. And i dont think were going to be the first generation to do the opposite. But that has yet to be written. And so, yeah, i think the reputation has been hit, but i think we still can come out of this and have even a better reputation if. We get this right in an you said the Republican Party is messed up right now and ive been part of it, im not going to sit and say i didnt contribute at all to the slide of the Republican Party. Any particular regrets you might share with us . Yeah, i mean, i have regrets. Ive already as the first impeachment, which i regret regret, you know, like, yeah, theres like that, you know, i can look back on and say, i think its important if going to talk about your prescription for the party to admit your role in it. And i think the problem we have now, you know, with all the people that are in power in, donald trump, theyre like, if i come and admit that what i did was wrong instead of people listening, theyre just going to be like well, you wont you you you like okay . Yeah, i it but yeah, i mean theres i can look back, say theres a few things, but i also will say to them, to my credit, sounds weird say that i was probably the outspoken member of congress against, donald trump for his entire four years and which leads to another thing where he was very obsessed with me because he couldnt win me over and he couldnt figure out why. But yeah, theres theres i certainly some regrets. Two more questions. Heres one that says and the person stresses. This is very hypothetical. Lets you were invited to mar a lago. And and you had the chance to say a few words directly to donald trump. What would those words be i mean, its not something i havent kind of said to him anyway, but like, im trying to make this family friendly. Id call him a teabag. Like hes just i would just tell him that hes hes hes got to live with the fact that he you know, if i. I couldnt, like, appeal to him, which i couldnt, i would just tell him that he has to live with the fact that his name will be seen as a stain on history and he has to understand that, like people are not going to look back at donald trump with any affection. Theres not going to be statues to him. Theres not going to be a trump library. Theres not going to be trump highway because hes going to be seen a National Embarrassment and. He has a chance to fix that because. He can come out and admit everything did and try to, you know, try to make amends. He wont but hes he will his memory will be a complete joke for this country in the book. He use a clinical term knocking knocking but i said hes not going to. Final im sort of combining a few together and its asking for comments about the candidate its running on the republican side. And lastly somebody asks joe manchin and its just a question mark. Well, on the republican, i mean, i think theres three people left really. And that is theres theres nikki haley and theres Chris Christie. And each of them represent, a certain part of the Party Obviously trump has trump. Haley represents kind of the estab the old establishment lane, but its like the the ones that went along with trump never liked him, but kind of went along with to save the party. And then Chris Christie is like my guy, right . The that are just like, okay, weve had enough my you know, were going to drop grenade. So i think those three are the ones that are left and i actually want to tell you folks, i think, you know, i implied that i think donald trump to jail. I think theres a good possibility that this spring, the most player on the january Six Committee was mark meadows, because he gave us some Text Messages and then quit cooperating. So we only got a fraction them. But those Text Messages gave us the entire roadmap for the rest of the investigation. Hes not. So every time donald trump went to the bathroom like mark meadows knows, knows everything he said or thought or anything. Hes not cooperating when this is exposed. I do think theres a possibility that it is so bad and so terrible that trump collapses at that. Its possible, and ive predicted it before. Lets be clear. But i do think the evidence against donald trump is going to be so stark that that would be the moment where nikki haley or, maybe even Chris Christie, if people are shamed, can come back. But, you know, thats thats again, thats the optimistic view. Its not real. Its not its not what id put my money on, but its a possibility in terms of joe manchin, what i the guy personally hes got a very ego. Lets be honest i and and any other time if this was bush against clinton again, id be like, yeah, lets let joe. Because, you know, bush and clinton are theyre not that far apart. This is an existential battle right now and all joe manchin going to do is give this disaffected republicans a place to go. Thats not and thats not good for biden. He needs those republicans. And and look, what if joe wins a couple of states well, you know what happens . He doesnt like it goes to the house of representatives to vote. If joe manchin wins two states and nobody gets to 70, the house of representatives votes for the president and the way its not like, okay, the democrats have the majority. So biden wins, it votes by state. Whoever has the most in a state that state votes way. Republicans control 26 delegations. Democrats control 24. That was the point on january six, by the way, is to get that delayed to trigger the constitution, to get the house to vote for the president and trump would have won 26, 24. Thats joe manchin can do in this if hes actually even successful. Well, with that. Thank you, congressman thank you, david, everybody. Thank you. Thank you allhello. Sorry about that. Hello, im sewell chan. Im the editor chief of the texas tribune. Thank you so much for joining us for this afternoon at the texas book festival. Im so delighted to be moderating panel titled security in a free state anth