Dole,n and senator bob the republican nominee. This event is sponsored by a commission on president ial debates that will last 90 minutes following the format and rules worked out by the two campaigns. Openingll be twominute and closing statements, questions each having three parts, a 92nd answer, a 60 second rebuttal, and a 32nd response. A 90 second answer, a 60second 3buttal, and a 32nd 0second response. Mr. Clinton. Mr. Clinton thank you. I want to begin by saying again how much i respect senator dole and his Public Service and how hard i will try to make this campaign and debate one of ideas and not insults. , iran and wanted to turn this country around, responsibility from all, and American Community where everybody has a role to play. I wanted a government smaller and less bureaucratic to help people. Four years ago, you took me on faith. Now there is a record. Rising incomes, falling crime america, atll peace. We are better off and we were four years ago. Lets keep it going. We cut the deficit by 60 . Now lets balance the budget protect education and the environment. We cut taxes for 15 million working americans here lets pass the tax cuts for education buying a rearing, help home. Lets expand leave so more people can succeed in the workforce. Pass 100,000 police, the assault weapons ban, the brady byl, now lets keep going finishing the work of putting place on the street and tackling juvenile gangs. E passed welfare reform now lets move a Million People from welfare to work. And most important, lets make education our highest priority so that every eightyearold will be able to read, every 12yearold can log onto the internet, every 18yearold can go to college. We can build that bridge to the 21st century. And i look forward to discussing exactly how were going to do it. Lehrer senator dole, two minutes. Dole thank you. Thank you, mr. President , for those kind words. Thank the people of hartford, the commission, and all those out here who may be listening or watching. Its a great honor for me to be here standing here as the republican nominee. Im very proud to be the republican nominee reaching out to democrats and independents. I have three very special people with me tonight my wife, elizabeth; my daughter, robin, who has never let me down, and a fellow named frank carafa from new york, along with Ollie Manninen who helped me out in the mountains of italy a few years back. Ive learned from them that people do have tough times. And sometimes you cant go it alone. And thats what america is all about. I remember getting my future back from doctors and nurses and a doctor in chicago named dr. Kalikian. And ever since that time, ive tried to give Something Back to my country, to the people who are watching us tonight. America is the greatest place on the face of the earth. Now, i know millions of you still have anxieties. You work harder and harder to make ends meet and put food on the table. You worry about the quality and the safety of your children, and the quality of education. But even more importantly, you worry about the future and will they have the same opportunities that you and i have had. And jack kemp and i want to share with you some ideas tonight. Jack kemp is my running mate, doing an outstanding job. Now, im a plainspeaking man and i learned long ago that your word was your bond. And i promise you tonight that ill try to address your concerns and not try to exploit them. Its a tall order, but ive been running against the odds for a long time and, again, im honored to be here this evening. Lehrer mr. President , first question. There is a major difference in your view of the role of the federal government and that of senator dole. How would you define the difference . Mr. Clinton well, jim, i believe that the federal government should give people the tools and try to establish the conditions in which they can make the most of their own lives. That, to me, is the key. And that leads me to some different conclusions from senator dole. For example, we have reduced the size of the federal government to its smallest size in 30 years. We reduced more regulations, eliminated more programs than my two republican predecessors. But i have worked hard for things like the family and medical leave law, the brady bill, the assault weapons ban, the program to put 100,000 police on the street. All of these are programs that senator dole opposed that i supported, because i felt they were a legitimate effort to help people make the most of their own lives. Ive worked hard to help families impart values to their own children. I supported the vchip so that parents would be able to control what their kids watch on television when theyre young, along with the ratings systems for television and educational television. I supported strong action against the Tobacco Companies to stop the marketing, advertising, and sale of tobacco to young people. I supported a big increase in the safe and drugfree Schools Program. These were areas on which senator dole and i differed, but i believed they were the right areas for america to be acting together as one country to help individuals and families make the most of their own lives and raise their kids with good values and a good future. Mr. Lehrer senator dole, one minute. Dole i think the basic difference is, and i have had some experience in this, i think the basic difference, i trust the people. The president trusts the government. We go back and look at the Healthcare Plan that he wanted to impose on the American People. One seventh the total economy, 17 new taxes, price controls, 35 to 50 new bureaucracies that cost 1. 5 trillion. Dont forget that, that happened in 1993. A tax increase, a tax on everybody in america. Not just the rich. If you made 25,000 as the original proposal, you got your Social Security taxes increased. We had a btu tax we turned into a 35 million gas tax, a 265 billion tax increase. I guess i rely more on the individual. I carry a little card in my pocket called the tenth amendment. Where possible, i want to give power back to the states and back to the people. Thats my difference with the president. Well have specific differences later. He noted a few, but there are others. Clinton i trust the people. Weve done a lot to give the people more powers to make their own decisions over their own lives. But i do think we are right when we try to, for example, give mothers and newborns 48 hours before they can be kicked out of the hospital, ending these driveby deliveries. I think we were right to pass the kassebaumkennedy bill, which says you cant lose your Health Insurance just because you change jobs or because someone in your familys been sick. Our government is smaller and less bureaucratic and has given more authority to the states than its two predecessors under republican president s. But i do believe we have to help our People Get Ready to succeed in the 21st century. Lehrer senator dole, the president said in his Opening Statement we are better off today than we were four years ago. Do you agree . Dole well, hes better off than he was four years ago. [laughter] clinton i agree with that. Thats right. Sen. Dole and i may be better off four years from now, but i dont know. I looked at the slowest growth in the century. He inherited a growth of 4. 7, 4. 8 percent, now its down to about 2. 4 percent. Were going to pass a million bankruptcies this year for the first time in history. Weve got stagnant wages. In fact, womens wages have dropped 2. 2 percent. Mens wages havent gone up, gone down. So we have stagnation. We have the highest foreign debt in history. And it seems to me that if you take a look, are you better off . Well, i guess some may be better off. Saddam hussein is probably better off than he was four years ago. Renee proval is probably better off than he was four years ago. But are the American People . Theyre working harder and higher and harder paying more taxes. For the first time in history, you pay about 40 percent of what you earn. More than you spend for food, clothing and shelter combined for taxes under this administration. So some may be better off. They talk about Family Income being up. Thats not true in connecticut, Family Income is down. And its up in some cases because both parents are working. One works for the family, and one works to pay taxes for the government. Were going to give them tax cuts so they can spend more time with their children, maybe even take a vacation. Thats what america is all clinton well, let me say, first of all, in february senator dole acknowledged that the American Economy was in the best shape its been in in 30 years. We have ten and a half million more jobs, a faster job growth rate than under any Republican Administration since the 1920s. Wages are goings up for the first time in a decade. We have record numbers of new Small Businesses. We have the biggest drop in the number of people in poverty in 27 years. All groups of people are growing. We had the biggest drop in income inequality in 27 years in 1995. The average familys income has gone up over 1600 just since our economic plan passed. So i think its clear that were better off than we were four years ago. Now we need to focus on what do we need to do to be better off still. How can we help people as we are to get their retirements when they work for Small Businesses, to be able to afford Health Insurance, to be able to educate their children. Thats what i want to focus on. But we are clearly better off than we were four years ago, as senator dole acknowledged this year. Lehrer senator dole. Dole i doubt that i acknowledged that this year. But in any event, i think we just look at the facts. We ask the people that are viewing tonight, are you better off than you were four years ago. Its not whether were better off, its whether theyre better off. Are you working harder to put food on the table, feed your children. Are your children getting a better education. Drug use has doubled the past 44 months all across america. Crime has gone down but its because the mayors like Rudy Giuliani where one third of the drop happened in one city, new york city. So, yes, some may be better off. But of the people listening tonight, the working families who will benefit from economic packages, theyll be better off when bob dole is president and jack kemp is Vice President. Lehrer mr. President , senator dole has come pretty close in the last few days to accusing you of lying about his position on medicare reform. Have you done so . Clinton absolutely not. Lets look at the position. First of all, remember that in this campaign season, since senator doles been a candidate, he has bragged about the fact that he voted against medicare in the beginning, in 1965, one of only 12 members. He said he did the right thing then, he knew it wouldnt work at the time. Thats what he said. Then his budget that he passed along with speaker gingrich cut medicare 270 billion, more than was necessary to repair the Medicare Trust fund. It would have charged seniors more for outofpocket costs as well as more in premiums because doctors could have charged them more. The american medical, hospital association, the nurses association, the Catholic Hospital association all said hundreds of hospitals could close and people would be hurt badly under the dolegingrich medicare plan that i vetoed. And now with this risky 550 billion tax scheme of senator doles, even his own friends, his campaign cochair, senator damato, says that they cant possibly pay for it without cutting medicare more and cutting Social Security as well, according to him. Now, my balanced budget plan adds ten years to the life of the Medicare Trust fund, ten years. And well have time to deal with the longterm problems of the baby boomers. But it was simply wrong to finance their last scheme to cut medicare 270 billion to run the risk of it withering on the vine. We always had to reform it over the years, but we need somebody who believes it in to reform it. Mr. Lehrer senator dole. Sen. Dole well, i must say, i look back at the vote on medicare in 1965, we had a program called eldercare that also provided drugs and means tests to people who needed medical attention received it. I thought it was a good program. But ive supported medicare ever since. In fact, i used to go home, my mother would tell me, bob, all ive got is my Social Security and my medicare, dont cut it. I wouldnt violate anything my mother said. In fact, we had a conversation about our mothers one day, a very poignant conversation in the white house. Im concerned about healthcare. Ive had the best healthcare from government hospitals, Army Hospitals and i know its importance, but weve got to fix it. Its his trustees, the president s trustees, not mine, who says its going to go broke. He doesnt fix it for ten years. We ought to appoint a commission, just as we did in Social Security in 1983, when we rescued Social Security, and i was proud to be on that commission, along with claude pepper, the champion of Senior Citizens from florida. And we can do it again, if we take politics out of it. Stop scaring the seniors, mr. President. Youve already spent 45 million scaring seniors and tearing me apart. I think its time to have a truce. Mr. Lehrer mr. President. Pres. Clinton well, let me say, first of all, id be happy to have a Commission Deal with this and i appreciate what senator dole did on the 83 Social Security commission. But it wont be possible to do, if his tax scheme passes because even his own campaign cochair, senator damato, says hell have to cut medicare even more than was cut in the bill that i vetoed. I vetoed that bill because it cut more medicare and and basically ran the risk of breaking up the system. My balanced budget plan puts ten years on the medicare. We ought to do that, then we can have a commission. But senator doles plans are not good for the country. Mr. Lehrer senator dole, speaking of your tax plan, do you still think thats a good idea, the 15 across the board tax cut . Sen. Dole oh, yes. And youll be eligible. Pres. Clinton me too . [laughter] sen. Dole and so will the former president , yes. Pres. Clinton i need it. [laughter] sen. Dole well, the people need it, thats the point. This is not a wall street tax cut. This is a family tax cut. This is a main street tax cut, 15 across lets take a family making 30,000 a year, thats 1261. Now, maybe to some in this bushnell memorial that its not a lot of money, but people watching tonight with a couple of kids, a working family, thats four or five months of day care, maybe a personal computer; its may be three or four months of mortgage payments. This economic package is about families but its a sixpoint package. First of all, its a balanced Budget Amendment to the constitution which president clinton defeated. He twisted arms and got six democrats to vote the other way, but we lost by one vote. Its balancing a budget by the year 2002. Its a tax cut, cutting Capital Gains 50 . So you can go out and create more jobs and more opportunities. Its a state tax relief. Its a 500 per child tax credit. Its about litigation reforms. Now that the president gets millions of dollars from the trial lawyers, he probably doesnt like this provision. In fact, when i fell off the podium in chico, before i lit the ground, hit the ground i had call on my cell phone from a trial lawyer saying i think weve got a case here. And its also Regulatory Reform. Its a good package, mr. President. Wed like to have your support. Mr. Lehrer mr. President. Pres. Clinton well, heres the problem with it it sounds very good, but theres a reason that 500 economists, including seven nobel Prize Winners and business periodicals like business week, and even senator doles friends, senator warren rudman, former republican senator from New Hampshire, says its not a practical program. Its a 550 billion tax scheme that will cause a big hole in the deficit which will raise Interest Rates and slow down the economy and cause people to pay more for home mortgages, car payments, credit card payments, college loans, and Small Business loans. Its not good to raise the deficit. We worked too hard to lower it. It will actually raise taxes on nine Million People and, in addition to that, it will force bigger cuts in medicare, medicaid, education and the environment than the ones that he and mr. Gingrich passed that i vetoed last year. So it sounds great, but our targeted tax cut for education, child rearing, healthcare and home buying, which is paid for in my balanced budget plan, something that he has not done, certified by the congressional budget office, thats the right way to go. Sen. Dole the president wants to increase spending 20 over the next six years. I want to increase spending 14 , thats how simple it is. I want the government to pinch pennies for a change instead of the American Families. Were talking about six Percentage Points over six years, and with that money you give it back to the working people. You also provide opportunity scholarships so low income parents will have the same choice that others have in sending their children to Better Schools. It will work, and when it does work, mr. President , i know youll congratulate me. Mr. Lehrer mr. President , the senator mentioned trial lawyers and campaign, that Means Campaign financing. How do you personally avoid being unduly influenced by people who give you money or give you services in your campaigns . Pres. Clinton well, i try to articulate my positions as clearly as possible, tell people what i stand for and let them decide whether theyre going to support me or not. The senator mentioned the trial lawyers. In the case of the Product Liability bill, which they passed and i vetoed, i think thats what hes talking about, i actually wanted to sign that bill. And i told the people exactly what the congress exactly what kind of bill i would sign. Now, a lot of the trial lawyers didnt want me to sign any bill at all, but i had thought we ought to do what we could to cut frivolous lawsuits, but they wouldnt make some of the changes that i thought should be made. Now, let me just give you an example. I had a person in the oval office who lost a child in a School Bus Accident where a drunk driver caused the accident directly, but there were problems with the school bus. The drunk driver had no money. Under the new bill, if i had signed it, a person like that could never have had any recovery. I thought that was wrong. So i gave four or five specific examples to the congress and said, prove to me that these people could recover but were going to eliminate frivolous lawsuits, ill sign the bill. But generally i believe that a president has to be willing to do what he thinks is right. Ive done a lot of things that were controversial. My economic plan, my trade position, bosnia, haiti, taking on the nra for the first time, taking on the Tobacco Companies for the first time. Sometimes you just have to do that because you know its right for the country over the long run. Thats what ive tried to do and thats what i will continue to do as president. Mr. Lehrer senator dole. Sen. Dole how does he avoid conflict . Well, i dont know in the case of the trial lawyers. I look at the trial lawyers, and when youre a few million short, you run out to hollywood and pick up two to four million and organized labor comes to washington, d. C. And puts 35 million into the pot. Now, if these arent special interests, ive got a lot to learn. I was there for a while before i left on june the 11th. The trial lawyers and i dont you know, my wifes a lawyer. Were the only two lawyers in washington that trust each other. But were lawyers, i like lawyers. I dont dislike trial lawyers. But it seemed to me theres got to be some end to the frivolous lawsuits and theres got to be some cap on punitive damage. Youre putting a lot of Business People out of business. Small businessmen and businesswomen who paid 70 of your ninteen , your 265 billion tax increase, the largest tax increase in the history of america. I said that one day and pat moynihan, a democrat, say, no, he said, in the history of the world. So i modified it, the largest tax increase in the history of the world. And it seems to me that there is a problem there, mr. President. And i will address you as mr. President. You didnt do that with mr. With president bush in 1992. Mr. Lehrer mr. President. Pres. Clinton let me say, first of all, i signed a tort reform bill that dealt with civilian aviation a couple of years ago. I proved that i will sign reasonable tort reform. Secondly, senator dole had some pretty harsh comments about special interest money, but it wasnt me who opposed what we tried to do to save the lives of children who were subject to tobacco and then went to the tobacco growers and bragged about standing up for the federal government when we tried to stop the advertising, marketing, and sales of tobacco to children. And it wasnt me that let the polluters actually come into the halls of congress, into the rooms, and rewrite the environmental laws. Thats what speaker gingrich and senator dole did, not me. Sen. Dole thats not true. Pres. Clinton so i believe that we should take a different approach to this and talk about how we stand on the issues instead of trying to characterize each others motivations. I think senator dole and i just honestly disagree. Mr. Lehrer well, senator dole, let me ask you the same question i asked the president how do you avoid being influenced by people who contribute money and services to your campaigns . Sen. Dole i think its very difficult. Lets be honest about it. Thats why we need Campaign Finance reform. Thats why i reach out to the perot voters. Weve done about all, we are the reform party, the Republican Party. And the perot voters that are looking for a home ought to take a look at the republican record. Whatever it is, whatever the checklist was in 92, its all done with Campaign Finance reform. I worked with senator mitchell, who played me, i guess, in the debate warmup. We tried six or eight years ago. He appointed three people, i appointed three people to get Campaign Finance reform. We couldnt get it done, because i wasnt enforceable. Youve suggested a commission, Newt Gingrich did, i suggested that at least four or five years ago. We have a commission on Campaign Finance reform. They send it to congress, and we have to vote it up or down. Thats how it works. We are never going to fix it by the parties, because democrats want a better advantage for themselves, we want a better advantage as republicans, and thats not how its going to work. But i want to touch on this is tobacco thing. I know the president s been puffing a lot on that. But i want to go back to 1965. That was my first vote against Tobacco Companies when i said we ought to label cigarettes. And ive had a consistent record ever since 1965. We passed a bill in 1992 that encouraged the states to adopt programs to stop kids from smoking. All 50 states did it. It took three and a half years. It wasnt until election year, mr. President , that you ever thought about stopping smoking. What about drugs that have increased, doubled in the last 44 months . Cocaine is up 141 marijuana, cocaine up 166 . It seems to me that you have a selective memory. You know, mine doesnt work that way. So i just want to try to correct it as we go along. Pres. Clinton mr. Lehrer, i hope well have a chance to discuss drugs later in the program. But let me respond to what you said. I agree that too many incumbent politicians in washington in both parties have consistently opposed Campaign Finance reform. That was certainly the case from the minute i got there. So after speaker gingrich and senator dole took over the congress, i went to New Hampshire and a man suggested a gentleman that unfortunately just passed away a couple of days ago, suggested that we appoint a commission. And i shook hands with him on it and i appointed my members, and the commission never met. And then senator doles ardent supporters, senator mccain, whos out there today, along with senator feingold, supported, sponsored a Campaign Finance reform proposal. I strongly supported it. And members of senator doles own party in the senate killed it. And he was not out there urging them to vote for the mccainfeingold bill. So i think the American People, including the perot supporters, know that i have had a consistent record in favor of Campaign Finance reform, and i will continue to have. And i hope we can finally get it in the next session of congress, because we need it badly. Mr. Lehrer senator dole, 30 seconds. Sen. Dole well, on Campaign Reform itself, were going to get it when we have a bipartisan commission, take it out of politics. Get people who dont have any interest in politics but understand the issue and let them make the recommendation to congress. Now, were now kidding anybody, mr. President. These are sophisticated people watching tonight. Millions and millions of americans. They know the Republican Party hasnt done it. They know the Democratic Party wont do it. We ought to agree that somebody else should do it. And we have to vote it up or down, mr. President. Mr. Lehrer mr. President , the senator mentioned drugs. He suggested that you are you bear some responsibility for the rise in drug use of teenagers in the United States. Is he right . Pres. Clinton well, jim, i think every american in any position of responsibility should be concerned about whats happened. I am. But lets look at the overall record. Overall in america cocaine use has dropped 30 in the last four years, casual drug use down 13 . The tragedy is that our young people are still increasing their use of drugs up to about 11 total with marijuana, and i regret it. Let me tell you what i tried to do about it. I appointed a fourstar general who led our efforts south of the border to keep drugs from coming into the country as our nations drug czar. The most heavily directed, decorated solder in uniform when he retired. We submitted the biggest drug budget ever. We have dramatically increased control and enforcement at the border. We supported a a crime bill that had 60 death penalties including, including the Death Penalty for drug kingpins. And i supported a big expansion in safe and drugfree Schools Program to support things like the dare program because i thought all those things were very important. Do i think that i bear some responsibility for the fact that too many of our children still dont understand drugs are wrong, drugs can kill you. Even though i have consistently opposed the legalization of drugs all my public life and worked hard against them. I think we all do. And i hope we can do better. I dont think this issue should be politicized because my record is clear and i dont think senator dole supports using using drugs. I think we just have to continue to work on this until those who think it isnt dangerous and wont kill them and wont destroy their lives, get the message and change. Mr. Lehrer senator. Sen. Dole again, well its, you are very selective, mr. President. You dont want to politicize drugs, but its already politicized medicare, go out and scare Senior Citizens and other vulnerable groups, veterans and people who get pell grants and things like this. I mean, you say weve done all these bad things, which isnt the case. But it seems to me the record is clear. The record is pretty clear in arkansas, when you were governor. Drug use doubled. You resisted the appointment of a drug czar there because you thought it might interfere with treatment. But here you cut the drug czars office 83 . You cut interdiction substantially. I mean thats what, i want to stop it from coming across the border. And in my administration, were going to train the National Guard to stop it from coming across the border. This is a invasion of drugs from all over the world. And we have a responsibility. You had a surgeon or before general mccaffrey ph you had a lady who said we ought to consider legalizing drugs. Is that the kind of leadership we need . And i wont comment on other things that happened in your administration or your past about drugs. But it seems to me the kids ought to if theyve started, they ought to stop and just dont do it. Mr. Lehrer mr. President. Pres. Clinton let me say again, we did have a drug czar in arkansas, but he answered to the governor, just like this one answers to the president. Thats what i thought we ought to do. Secondly, senator dole, you voted against the crime bill that had the Death Penalty for drug kingpins in it. And you voted to cut services to 23 Million School children under the safe and drugfree schools act. I dont think that means youre soft on drugs. We just have a different approach. But let me remind you, my family has suffered from drug abuse. I know what its like to see somebody you love nearly lose their lives, and i hate drugs, senator. We need to do this together and we can. Mr. Lehrer senator dole, on the government, continuing to talk about the governments role. If elected president , would you seek to repeal the brady bill and the ban on assault weapons . Sen. Dole not if i didnt have a better idea. But ive got a better idea. Its something ive worked on for 15 years. Its called the automated check or the instant check. Its being used in 17 states right now. States like florida, colorado, virginia, and other states. You dont buy any gun. You dont get any gun. Weve got 20 million names on a computer in washington, d. C. Of people who should not have guns. We ought to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. And, there are eight other categories that should not have guns. Ive been working on this for a long, long time. You walk in, you put your little card in there. If it says tilt, you dont get any gun. You dont get a hand gun, you dont get a rifle, you dont get a shot gun, you get zippo. If were going to protect American Children and American Families and people who live as prisoners in their own home, weve got to stop guns from being dumped on the street. The Administration Says they support the instant check. Theyve appropriated about 200 million, but only spent about 3 million to get it underway. In our administration, in my administration, we will expedite. This keeps up with technology. It keeps guns out of the hands of people who should not have guns. That is the bottom line. And i believe its a good idea, has strong bipartisan support. And perhaps thats another thing we can depoliticize. You talk about the brady bill. There has only been one prosecution under the brady only one under the assault weapon ban and only seven under the brady bill that you talk about all the time. And on the assault weapon ban, out of 17 weapons that were banned, only six banned now because eleven have been modified and are back on the street. Lets get together on this instant check because that will really make a difference. Mr. Lehrer mr. President. Pres. Clinton let me say, first of all, senator dole has gone back and forth about whether hed be for repealing the brady bill or repealing the assault weapons ban. And i think his present position is he would not do so, and if thats true im grateful for it. But lets look at the facts here. The brady bill has kept at least 60,000 felons, fugitives and stalkers from getting hand guns. Senator dole led the fight against the brady bill. He tried to keep it from coming to my desk. He didnt succeed and i signed it and im glad i did. Then when we had the assault weapons ban in the senate, senator dole fought it bitterly and opposed the entire crime bill and almost brought the entire crime bill down because the National Rifle association didnt want the assault weapons ban, just like they didnt want the brady bill. But two years later nobodys lost their handguns. I mean, their rifles. Weve expanded the brady bill to cover people who beat up their spouses and their kids. And this is a safer country. So im glad i took on that fight and i believe, with all respect, i was right and he was wrong. Sen. Dole well, the president doesnt have it quite right. I mean, it seemed to me at the time the assault weapon ban was not effective. But thats history. I told the nra thats history. Youre not going to worry about it anymore. Im not going to worry about it anymore. Lets do something better. Lets stop, you know, playing the political game, mr. President. Talking about this and this. You add all the states thatve used the instant check and how many weapons they keep, kept out of the hands of criminals. It would far surpass the numbers you mentioned. So in my view, if you want to be protected, you ought to vote for bob dole and well get the instant check passed and well keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Mr. Lehrer mr. President , senator dole said the other day that you practiced a photoop Foreign Policy that has lessened the credibility of the United States throughout the world. Is he wrong about that . Pres. Clinton if he, thats what he said, hes not right about that. Look at where we are today. The United States is still the indispensable nation in the aftermath of the cold war and on the brink of the 21st century. I have worked to support our country as the worlds Strongest Force for peace and freedom, prosperity and security. We have done the following things number one, weve managed the aftermath of the cold war, supporting a big drop in Nuclear Weapons in russia. The removal of Russian Troops from the baltics. The integration of central and Eastern European democracies into a new partnership with nato. And, i might add, with the democratic russia. There are no Nuclear Missiles pointed at the children of the United States tonight and have not been in our administration for the First Time Since the dawn of the nuclear age. We have worked hard for peace and freedom. When i took office, haiti was governed by a dictator that had defied the United States. When i took office, the worst war in europe was waging in bosnia. Now there is a the democratically elected president in haiti. Peace in bosnia. We just had the election there. Weve made progress in northern ireland, in the middle east. Weve also stood up to the new threats of terrorism. The proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, organized crime, and we have worked hard to expand americas economic presence around the world with the biggest increase in trade with the largest new number of trade agreements in history and thats one of the reasons america is number one in auto production again. Mr. Lehrer senator. Sen. Dole well, i have a different view. Again, ia™ve supported the president on bosnia, and i think we were told the troops would be out in a year. Now i understand its been extended til some time next year. But, lets start with somalia, where they dragged americans through the streets, and where 18 americans were killed one day, because they didnt have, they were pinned down for eight hours, the rangers. They didnt have the weapons, they didnt have the tanks. They asked for the tanks. They didnt get the tanks from this administration because we were nation building. Its called mission creep. We turn it over to the United Nations. The president didnt have much to do about it. You look at haiti, where we spend about three billion dollars and we got an alarm call there about two weeks ago. You got to send down some more people, because the president s found out there are death squads on his on his, in his own property. So we need more protection from america. Bosnia, northern ireland. Theres no ceasefire in bosnia. I think there are still lot of problems in bosnia. We agreed to train and arm the muslims so they could defend themselves, the policy you had when you ran in 1992. We havent done that. Were way behind, which means americans cant come home. Americans shouldnt have gone there in the first place, had we let them defend themselves, as they have a right to do under article 57 of the United Nations charter. Mr. Lehrer mr. President. Pres. Clinton first of all, i take full responsibility for what happened in somalia, but the American People must remember that those soldiers were under an american commander when that happened. I believe they did the best they could under the circumstances, and lets not forget that hundreds of thousands of lives were saved there. Secondly, in haiti, Political Violence is much, much smaller than it was. Thirdly, in bosnia its a virtual miracle that there has been no return to war and at least there has now been an election. And institutions are beginning to function. In northern ireland, in the middle east we are better off than we were four years ago. There will always be problems in this whole world. But if were moving in the right direction and america is leading, were better off. Mr. Lehrer senator dole, if elected president , what criteria would you use to decide when to send u. S. Troops into harms way. Sen. Dole well it, after world war i, we had, you know, a policy of disengagement. Then from world war i to world war ii we had sort of a compulsory engagement policy. Now i think we have a selective engagement policy. We have to determine when our interests are involved, not the United Nations interests. And many of the things the president talked about, he turned over to the United Nations. They decided. Hes deployed more troops than any president in history around the world. Its cost us billions and billions of dollars for peacekeeping operations. Look these are facts. And it seems to me that when you make a decision, the decision is made by the president of the United States, by the commanderinchief. He makes that decision when he commits young men or young women who are going to go round and defend our liberty and our freedom. That would be my position. Then im going to have a top down review at the pentagon, not a bottom up review. We all fight over how much money is there. I want a top down review to determine what our priorities are and what we should do in defense, and then follow that policy instead of this bottom up review with all the services fighting for the money. You know, the president said he was going to cut defense 60 billion, he cut defense 112 billion. Devastated states like california and others. And i think now weve got a problem. Weve got to go back and look. Its just like you said in texas one day, you know raised taxes too much, and you did, and you cut defense too much, mr. President , and you did. You may have said that, too. But the bottom line is, we are the strongest nation in the world. We provide the leadership and were going to have to continue to provide the leadership, but lets do it on our terms when our interests are involved and not when somebody blows the whistle at the United Nations. Pres. Clinton our military is the Strongest Military in the world. It is the strongest, best prepared, best equipped it has ever been. There is very little difference in the budget that i proposed and the republican budget over the next sixyear period. We are spending a lot of money to modernize our weapons system. I have proposed a lot of new investments to improve the quality of life for our soldiers, for our men and women in uniform, for their families, for their training. That is my solemn obligation. You ask when do you decide to deploy them. The interests of the American People must be at stake. Our values must be at stake. We have to be able to make a difference. And frankly we have to consider what the risks are to our young men and women in uniform. But i believe the evidence is that our deployments have been successful, in haiti, in bosnia, when we moved to kuwait to repel Saddam Husseins threatened invasion of kuwait. When i have sent the fleet into the taiwan straits. When weve worked hard to end the northern Korean Nuclear threat. I believe the United States is at peace tonight in part because of the disciplined, careful, effective deployment of our military resources. Mr. Lehrer senator dole. Sen. Dole well i failed to mention north korea and cuba, a while ago. You look at north korea where they have enough plutonium to build six nuclear bombs. Weve sort of distanced ourselves from our ally, south korea. They lost about a Million People in the war, the korean war, the forgotten war. We lost 53,000 americans. We shouldnt be doing any favors for north korea. Its a closed society. We dont have any inspection. We dont know whether its going to work or not, but we keep giving the incentives. Someone called them Something Else. Incentives. We dont know whats going to happen. Here we have cuba 90 miles from our shores, and what have we done, we passed the law that gave people a right to sue and the president postponed it for six months. And it seemed to me if you want to send a signal, youve got to send a signal, mr. President. The sooner the better off well be, if you put tougher sanctions on castro, not try to make it easier for him. Mr. Lehrer mr. President , what is your attitude toward cuba and how cuba should be treated . Pres. Clinton well, first of all, for the last four years we have worked had to put more and more pressure on the castro government to bring about more openness and move toward democracy. In 1992, before i became president , the Congress Passed the cuba democracy act and i enforced it vigorously. We made the embargo tougher but we increased contacts people to people with the cubans, including direct telephone service, which was largely supported by the cubanAmerican Community. Then cuba shot down two of our planes and murdered four people in International Air space. They were completely beyond the pale of the law, and i signed the helmsburton legislation. Senator dole is correct. I did give about six months before the Effective Date of the act before lawsuits can actually be filed, even though theyre effective now, and can be legally binding, because i want to change cuba. And the United States needs help from other countries. Nobody in the world agrees with our policy on cuba now. But this law can be used as leverage to get other countries to help us to move cuba to democracy. Every single country in latin america, Central America and the caribbean is a democracy tonight but cuba. And if we stay firm and strong, we will be able to bring cuba around as well. Sen. Dole thats the point i made. We have to be firm and strong. And i hope that will happen. It will happen starting next january and maybe it can happen the balance of this year. We have not been firm and strong. You look at the poor people who still live in cuba. Its a haven for drug smugglers and we dont have a firm policy when it comes to fidel castro. In my view, the policy has failed. So Congress Passes the law, the president signs it, like he does a lot of things. But he, like welfare reform, im going to sign it but im going to try to change it next year. A lot of these electionyear conversions, the president talks about the drug money, and all the other things, all this antismoking campaign all happened in 1996. And i think the people viewing out there ought to go back and take a look at the record when he fought a balanced Budget Amendment. When he gave you that biggest tax increase in history; when he tried to take over your Healthcare System. When he fought Regulatory Reform that cost the average family 6 to 7,000 a year. This is a serious business. Its about your family; its about your business, and in this case its about a firmer policy with cuba. Pres. Clinton there were several offthesubject quaffers in that litany. Let me just mention, senator dole voted for 900 billion in tax increases. His running mate jack kemp once said that bob dole never met a tax he didnt hike. And everybody knows, including the wall street journal, hardly a friend of the Democratic Party of this administration, that the 82 tax increase he sponsored in inflationadjusted dollars was the biggest tax increase in American History. So we ought to at least get the facts out here on the table so we can know where to go from here. Mr. Lehrer senator dole, you mentioned Health Reform several times. What do you think should be done about the Healthcare System . Sen. Dole let me first answer that question about the 1982 tax cut. We were closing loopholes, we were going after big corporations. I know you probably would oppose it, mr. President , but i think we should have a fairer system and a flatter system, and well have a fairer and flatter system and were going to make the economic package work. Healthcare. Well, we finally passed the kassebaum bill. The president was opposed to it in 1993. He wanted to give us this big system, that took over about oneseventh of the economy, that put on price controls, created all these state alliances, and would cost 1. 5 trillion and force people into managed care, whether they wanted it or not. Most people want to see their own doctor. Theyre going to see their own doctor when bob dole is president. We wont threaten anybody. So we passed the kassebaumkennedy, the Kennedy Kassebaum bill that will cover about 20 to 25 Million People. Weve been for that for four, five, six years. The president held it up. And even when it finally got near passage, senator kennedy held it up for 100 days, because he wasnt satisfied with one provision. But it will cover preexisting conditions. If you change your job, youre going to be covered. So there are a lot of good things in this bill we should have done instead of trying this massive, massive takeover by the federal government. But then of course we had a Democratic Congress and they didnt want to do that. Until we got a Republican Congress, we finally got action, im proud of my colleagues in the Republican Party for getting that done. It means a lot to a lot of people watching us tonight. Pres. Clinton well, that sounds very good, but its very wrong. Senator dole remembers well that we actually offered not to even put in a healthcare bill in 1994, uh 93, but instead to work with the Senate Republicans and write a joint bill. And they said no because they got a memo from one of their political advisers saying that instead they should characterize whatever we did as Big Government and make sure nothing was done to aid healthcare before the 94 elections so they could make that claim. Well, maybe we bit off more than we could chew, but were pursuing a stepbystep reform now. The kennedykassebaum bill that i signed will make it possible for 25 Million People to keep their Health Insurance when they change jobs or when somebody in their familys been sick. I signed a bill to stop these driveby deliveries when Insurance Companies can force people out of the hospital after 24 hours and i vetoed senator doles medicare plan that would have forced a lot of seniors into managed care and taken a lot more money out of their pockets and led to medicare withering on the vine. Sen. Dole well, many of the provisions in the kassebaum bill were provisions that my provisions, like deductions for longterm care, making certain that selfemployed people that are watching tonight can deduct not 30 but 80 of you pay for premiums. You can also deduct longterm care now, so its a good its a good start. I think theres enough were even looking at our tax cut proposal, our economic package. There may be a way of reaching out to the uninsured, because there are a lot of uninsured people in the country, particularly children, that should be covered. Another way you can do is to expand medicaid. In america no one will go without healthcare, no one will go without food. Mr. Lehrer senator, go ahead and finish your sentence. Sen. Dole all right. Food. [laughter] mr. Lehrer back to Foreign Affairs for a moment, mr. President. Are you satisfied with the way you handled this last iraq crisis and the end result . Pres. Clinton well, i believe that we did the appropriate thing under the circumstances. Saddam hussein is under a u. N. Resolution not to threaten his neighbors or threaten his own, repress his own citizens. Unfortunately, a lot of people, have never been as concerned about the kurds as the United States has tried to be, and weve been flying an operation to protect them out of turkey for many years now. What happened was one of the turkish, one of the kurdish leaders invited him to go up north, but we felt since the whole World Community had told him not to do it, that once he did it we had to do something. We did not feel that i could commit. I certainly didnt feel i should commit american troops to throw him out of where he had gone, and that was the only way to do that. So the appropriate thing strategically to do was to reduce his ability to threaten his neighbors. We did that by expanding whats called the nofly zone by increasing our allies control of the air space now from the kuwait border to the suburbs of baghdad. Was it the right thing to do . I believe it was. Is it fully effective . Did it make him withdraw from the north . Well, he does , he has a little bit, and i hope he will continue. We have learned that you give him an inch hell take a mile. We had to do something, and even though not all of our allies supported it at first, i think most of them now believe that what we did was an appropriate thing to do. Mr. Lehrer senator dole. Sen. Dole well, the president s own cia director says saddam is stronger now than he was. I dont understand extending the nofly zone in the south when the trouble was in the north. And what weve done during the bush administration, the kurds were at the state department, negotiating, trying to work their differences out. Now weve got all thousands and thousands of refugees. Were even shipping 3,000 kurds to guam. It involves turkey. Its a real problem. Saddam is probably about as strong as he ever was. We shot, what, 44 cruise missiles, worth about a milliontwo a piece, and hit some radar, that repaired in a couple, three days. Did we inflict any damage . No. Did we have any allies helping . Well, we have great britain. Theyre always very loyal to us, and i appreciate that. And of course kuwait. Even though they had to find out they had 5,000 troops coming, they didnt even understand that. We had to get their permission. The bottom line is, we went in there alone. We are supposed to be operating under a u. N. Resolution. We did it without any of our allies that helped in the gulf. Pres. Clinton senator dole has two or three times before tonight criticized me for working with the u. N. Now im being criticized for not working with the u. N. Sen. Dole its not the u. N. Pres. Clinton sometimes the United States has to act alone or at least has to act first. Sometimes we cannot let other countries have a veto on our Foreign Policy. I could not send soldiers into the north of iraq, that would have been wrong. It could reduce Saddam Husseins abilities to threaten kuwait and his other neighbors again. Thats what i did. I still believe it was the right thing to do. Mr. Lehrer senator dole, on your photoop Foreign Policy charge against the president sen. Dole not mine. Mr. Lehrer oh, no, no. I mean your charge against the president , that he has a photoop Foreign Policy. Does the middle east summit last week fall into that category . Sen. Dole well, there were some good pictures, but does it fall into that category . I dont know. I want to be very serious. Ive supported the president when i thought he was right on bosnia. I supported him on nafta and gatt. So its not that we always disagree. Others disagreed with us. The mideast is very difficult. But it seemed to me just as an observer that you know before youd call somebody to america, youd have some notion what the end result might be. Now maybe its better just to get together and sit down and talk. Maybe that was the purpose. And i know talks have started again today. But again its almost like an ad hoc Foreign Policy. Its ad hoc, its sort of we get up in the morning and read the papers, what countrys in trouble, well have a meeting. Now, to me thats not the strategy that i think people expect from america. I think we have lost credibility, and i say this very honestly without any partisanship. Weve lost credibility around the world. Our allies know, theyre not certain what were going to do, what our reaction, what our response is going to be. Nobody suggested sending troops to iraq, if that was the hint there from the president. But i do think that Saddam Hussein is stronger than he was. And i do believe that we didnt gain a great deal in the mideast by bringing three of the four leaders, one refused to come, to washington d. C. Pres. Clinton we have a very consistent policy in the middle east it is to support the Peace Process; to support the security of israel; and to support those who are prepared to take risks for peace. It is a very difficult environment. The feelings are very strong. There are extremists in all parts of the middle east who want to kill that Peace Process. Prime minister rabin gave his life because someone in his own country literally hated him for trying to bring peace. I would like to have had a big, organized summit, but those people were killing each other, rapidly, innocent arab children, innocent israeli people, they were dying. And there is ,so much trust has broken down in the aftermath of the change of government. I felt that if i could just get the parties together to say lets stop the violence, start talking, commit to the negotiations, that would be a plus. Now today the secretary of state is in the middle east and theyve started negotiations and all those leaders promised me they would not quit until they resolved the issues between them and got the Peace Process Going Forward again. Mr. Lehrer senator dole. Sen. Dole well, i was disappointed. The president has not called for an unconditional end to the violence. It seemed to me the violence stopped when these leaders came to america. The killing and tragedies had taken place. And it is unfortunate, it is a difficult area, no doubt about it. It shouldnt be politicized in any way by the president or by his opponent. And i dont intend to politicize it. I hope they talked and i hope theyve reached some result and that the killing will end. Pres. Clinton thank you. Mr. Lehrer mr. President , in your acceptance speech in chicago, you said the real choice in this race is, quote, whether we build a bridge to the future or a bridge to the past; about whether we believe our best days are still out there or our best days are behind us; about whether we want a country of people all working together or one where youre on your own, end quote. Are you saying that you believe senator dole is a man of the past and if elected president he would lead the country backward . Pres. Clinton well, im saying that senator dole said in his fine speech in san diego that he wanted to build a bridge to the past. And i think i know what he meant by that. Hes troubled, as i am, by some of the things that go on today. But i believe america is the greatest country in Human History because we have maintained freedom and increasing prosperity by relentlessly pushing the barriers of knowledge, the barriers of the present, always moving into the future. Thats why when i became president i was determined to kind of move beyond this whole stale debate that had gone on in washington for too long to get this country moving again. And thats why weve got a country with ten and a half million more jobs, and record numbers of new businesses, and rising incomes, and falling crime rates, and welfare roll rates. Thats why were moving in the right direction. And im trying to emphasize that what i want to do is to continue to do that. Thats why my balanced budget plan will still invest and grow this economy. Thats why i want a tax cut for education and child rearing, but its got to be paid for. Thats why i want to continue the work we have done over partisan opposition, to work with communities to bring that crime rate down until our streets are all safe again. These are my commitments. I am very oriented toward the future. I think this election has to be geared toward the future. I think americas best days are still ahead, but weve got to build the right bridge. Mr. Lehrer senator dole. Sen. Dole you know, the president reminds me sometimes of my brother kenny, who is no longer alive. But kenny was a great talker. And he used to tell me things that i knew were not quite accurate. So we always had a rule, we divided by six. Maybe in your case maybe just two. But 11 million new jobs and everything, i mean the president cant take credit for everything that governors are doing, whether thats happening in new york city when it comes to the murder rate and then not be responsible for the bad things that happen, whether its drug use or Something Else in america. So it seems to me that we can talk about what we call kenny, the great exaggerator. He just liked to make it sound exager, a little better, made him feel better. When it comes to bridges, i want a bridge to the future. I also want a bridge to the truth. We have to tell the truth. Weve got people watching tonight and listening tonight trying to find the truth. And the truth is, there is a lot wrong with america. We need a strong economic package; we need a tax cut; we need the 500 child credit, and well have that soon. Mr. Lehrer mr. President. Pres. Clinton i do not for a moment think im entitled to all the credit for all the good things that have happened in america. But where i have moved to work with the American People to help them have the tools to make the most of their own lives, i think i should get some credit for that. I also personally took responsibility tonight when senator dole asked me about the drug problem. But, you know, i think my ideas are better for the future. Senator dole voted against Student Loans, against headstart, against creating the department of education. If he gets elected president , well start the new century without anyone in the cabinet of the president representing education in our children. I personally dont think thats the right kind of future for america, and i think we ought to take a different tack. Mr. Lehrer senator dole, do you still favor eliminating the department of education. Sen. Dole yes. I didnt favor it when it was in, started. I voted against it. It was a tribute after president carters election to the National Education association who send a lot of delegates to the democratic convention, who gives 99. 5 of their money, democrat democrats, and the president , and a lot of the teachers send their kids to private schools or better Public Schools. So what we want to do is called opportunity scholarships. Now, some say, oh, youre a republican, you cant be reaching out to these people. Ive reached out to people all my life. Ive worked on the food stamp program, proudly. And the wic program, and the School Lunch Program with senators like george mcgovern, Hubert Humphrey and others, to name a few of my democratic friends. Im not some extremist out here. I care about people. I have my own Little Foundation thats raised about 10 million for the disabled. I dont advertise it. Just did, havent before. And i try to do a lot of things that i think might be helpful to people. So it seems to me that we ought to take that money we can save from the department of education, put it into opportunity scholarships and tell little Landale Shakespeare out in cleveland, ohio, and tell your mother and father, youre going to get to go to school because were going to match what the state puts up, and youre going to go to the school of your choice. I dont fault the president or the Vice President for sending their children to private schools or Better Schools. I applaud them for it, i dont criticize them. But why shouldnt everybody have that choice. Why shouldnt low income americans and low middle income americans. Im excited about it. Its going to be a big, big opportunity for a lot of people. Pres. Clinton let me say first of all, im all for students having more choices. Weve worked hard to expand Public School choice in my balanced budget bill. Theres funds for 3,000 new schools created by teachers and by teachers and parentssinesscd that have no rules, and can only stay in existence if they perform. The ones out there, they are doing well. If we are going to have a private voucher plan, that ought to be done at the local level or the state level. Against the voted National Service bill, the headstart bill, he has voted against these programs. Secretary clinton that is the issue. 90 of our kids are out there. Center dot i want to correct the president. All of these things i voted against probably were part of some big package that had a lot of pork and it. Headstart, i think we ought a look at it. Im not just voting no, no, no. Lets give low income parents the same thing that peter people of power and prestige have. Mr. Lehrer mr. President , what is wrong with the School Choice proposal . Pres. Clinton i support School Choice. I support School Choice. I have advocated expansions of Public School choice alternatives and i said the creation of 3,000 new schools that we are going to help the states to finance. But if youre going to have a private voucher plan, that ought to be determined by states in localities where theyre raising and spending most of the money. I simply think its wrong to take money away from programs that are helping build basic skills for kids, 90 of them are in the Public Schools; to take money away from programs that are helping fund the School Lunch Program, that are helping to fund the other programs, that are helping our schools to improve their standards. Our schools are getting better, and our schools can be made to be even better still with the right kind of Community Leadership and partnership at the school level. I have been a strong force for reform. And, senator, i remind you that a few years ago when i supported teacher testing while in my home state i was pretty well lambasted by the teachers association. I just dont believe we ought to be out there running down teachers and attacking them the way you did at the Republican Convention. I think we ought to be lifting them up and moving our children forward. And let me just say that budget that you passed that i vetoed would have cut 50,000 kids out of headstart. It would have eliminated the americorps plan and it would have cut back on Student Loans and scholarships. Now, it would have. Thats a fact. Thats one of the big reasons i vetoed it. We need to be doing more in education, not less. Sen. Dole well, the americorps program, i must say, if thats one of your successes, i wouldnt speak about it too loudly. It costs about 27,000 to pay people to volunteer. Weve got four million young people volunteering every year, the number hasnt gone down. And you pick out 20,000, whether they need the money or not, and they get paid for volunteering. I like young people. I like teachers. Im a product of a Public Schools. You attended a private school for some time in your life. I like teachers. Youre not for School Choice, you cant be for School Choice, because this is that special interest money again. When you get 99. 5 of the money, we dont know what happened to the other. 5 , were looking for it, somebody got it, but it all went to democrats. And this is part of that liberal establishment, one of those liberal things that you just cant do. Youre for School Uniforms and curfews and youre opposed to truancy. Now thats not reform, mr. President. Why cant Landale Shakespeare in cleveland or Pilar Gonzales in milwaukee give their children an opportunity to go to a Better School . Some schools arent safe. Some schools arent even safe. Your choice is nothing. Lets give them a real choice, the kind of choice you had, and the kind of choice a lot of people have in america. If we want to stop crime and teenage pregnancy, lets start with education. Pres. Clinton first of all, senator dole, lets set the record straight. I was able for two years when i was in, a very young boy to go to a catholic school, but i basically went to Public Schools all my life. And ive worked hard for a long time to make them better, 90 of our kids are there. You, its amazing to me, you are all for having more responsibility at the local level for everything except schools. Where we dont have very much money at the federal level to spend on education, we ought to spend it helping the 90 of the kids that we can help. If a local School District in cleveland or anyplace else wants to have a private choice plan like milwaukee did, let them have at it. I might say the results are highly ambiguous. But i want to get out there and give a better education opportunity to all of our children and thats why i vetoed the budget you passed with 30 billion in education cuts. It was wrong, and my plan for the future is better. Mr. Lehrer senator dole, at the Republican Convention you said the following and i quote, it is demeaning to the nation that within the Clinton Administration a core of the elite who never grew up, never did anything real, never sacrificed, never suffered, and never learned should have the power to fund with your earnings their dubious and selfserving schemes, end quote. Whom precisely and what precisely did you have in mind . Sen. Dole i had precisely in mind a lot of the people that were in the white house and other agencies whove never been had any experience, who came to washington without any experience, they all were very liberal, of course, or they wouldnt be in the administration. And their idea was that they knew what was best for the American People. Now, i feel very strongly about a lot of things. I feel strongly about education. I want to help young people have an education, just as i had an education after world war ii with the gi bill of rights. Weve had millions of young men and women in subsequent subsequent wars change the face of the nation because the government helped with their education. Now the reason they dont have, the reason the president cant support this is pretty obvious. Its not taking anything away from schools, its new money. Its not being taken away from anybody else, except well downsize the department of education. But this is a very liberal administration. This is an administration that gave you the big tax cut. This administration tried to take over healthcare and impose a governmental system. This is the administration that fought Regulatory Reform that is putting a lot of Small Businessmen and Small Businesswomen out of business. This is the administration that fought the balanced Budget Amendment and vetoed a balanced budget and vetoed welfare reform twice, and the list goes on and on and on, thats what i had in mind. I want people in my administration and will have people in my administration who understand america. There wont be 10 millionaires and 14 lawyers in the cabinet. There will be people with experience and people who understand america and people whove made it and know the hard knocks in life. Pres. Clinton when senator dole made that remark about all the elitists, all the young elitists in the administration, one of the young men who works for me who grew up in a house trailer looked at me and said, mr. President , i know how you grew up, who is he talking about . And you know this liberal charge, thats what their party always drags out when they get in a tight race. Its sort of their golden oldie, you know. Its a record they think they can play that Everybody Loves to hear. And i just dont think that dog will hunt this time. The American People should make up their own mind. Heres the record we cut deficit four years in a row for the first time before the civil war i mean, before world war ii, and maybe before the civil war, too. Weve got ten and a half million new jobs; weve got record numbers of those new Small Businesses. Weve made every one of them eligible for a tax cut. Weve got declining crime rates, two million fewer people on welfare rolls before welfare reform passed, and a 50 increase in Child Support and a crime bill with 60 death penalties and 100,000 police and the assault weapons ban. The American People can make up their mind about whether thats a liberal record or a record thats good for america. Liberal, conservative, you put whatever label you want on it. Sen. Dole well, i think its pretty liberal, ill put that label on it. You take a look at all the programs youve advocated, mr. President. Thank goodness we had a Republican Congress there. The first thing you did when you came into office was set up the stimulus package, said weve got a little pork we want to scatter around america, 16 billion. And even some in your own party couldnt buy that. I remember talking by the telephone. Im not even certain you were too excited about that. I wont, i never repeat what ive talked to the president about. In any event, we saved the taxpayers 16 billion. And then came some other program, and then came healthcare, and then came the tax increase and a lot of these things stopped in 1994 because then the congress changed, and i think weve done a good job. Mr. Lehrer mr. President , if youre not a liberal, describe your political philosophy. Pres. Clinton i believe that the purpose of politics is to give people the tools to make the most of their own lives; to reinforce the values of opportunity and responsibility, and to build a sense of community so were all working together. I dont believe in discrimination. I believe you can protect the environment and grow the economy. I believe that we have to do these things with a government thats smaller and less bureaucratic, but that we have to do them nonetheless. Its inconvenient for senator dole, but the truth is ive reduced the size of government more than my republican predecessors. And i did stop them, i admit that. I sure stopped their budget. Their budget cut enforcement for the Environmental Protection agency by a third. It cut funds to clean up toxic waste dumps with 10 million of our kids still living within four miles of a toxic waste dump, by a third. It ended the principle that the polluters should pay for those toxic waste dumps unless it was very recent. Their budget weakened our support for education. 30 billion, even cut funds for scholarships and college loans. Their budget cut 270 billion in medicare and, finally, their budget withdrew the national guarantee of healthcare to poor children, families with children with handicaps, the elderly in nursing homes, poor pregnant women. It was wrong for the country and calling it conservative wont make it right. It was a bad decision for america and would have been bad for our future if i hadnt stopped it. Sen. Dole well, the president can define himself in any way he wants, but i think we have to look at the record. Go back to the time he was, what, texas director for george mcgovern. George mcgovern is a friend of mine, so i dont mean, but he was a liberal, proud liberal. Ive just finished reading a book, i think its called what is it called, what is it, the demise of the Democratic Party by ronald cardash or something talking about all the liberal influences in the administration. Whether its organized labor or whether its the hollywood elite or whether some of the media elite or whether its the labor unions or whatever. And so i think you take a look at it. The bottom line is this i think the American People, thought hed recite all these bills and all these things, they want to know whats going to happen to them. Theyve all got a lot of anxieties out there. Did anybody complain when you raised taxes . Did anybody go out and ask the people, how are you going to pay the extra money . Thats why we want an economic package. We want the government to pinch their pennies for a change instead of the people pinching their pennies. Thats what our message is to the people watching. Not all this back and forth, you voted this way, you voted that way, we want a better america as we go into the next century. Pres. Clinton the way you get a better america is to balance the budget and protect medicare, medicaid, education and the environment; to give a targeted tax cut and let me talk about the education tax cut to let people have a 10,000 deduction for the cost of College Tuition in any year, any kind of College Tuition; to give families a tax credit, a dollar for dollar reduction in their taxes for the cost of a Typical Community college so we can open that to everybody. And then to let people save in an ira and withdraw from it without a tax penalty for education, home buying or medical expenses, thats the right way to go into the 21st century, balance the budget and cut taxes, not balloon with this 550 billion tax scheme. Mr. Lehrer senator dole, weve talked mostly now about differences between the two of you that relate to policy issues and that sort of thing. Are there also significant differences in the more personal area that are relevant to this election . Sen. Dole let me say first, on the president s promise for another tax cut. I mean, ive told people as ive traveled around, all of you that got the tax cut he promised last time, vote for him in 96 and not many hands go up. So the question is, would you buy a used election promise from my opponent . The people want economic reform. Theyre having a hard time making ends meet. Youve got one parent working for the government, the other parent working for the family. This is important business. This is about getting the economy moving again. This is about american jobs and opportunities. Its about the government, as i said before, pinching its pennies for a change instead of the poor taxpayer. When they raise your taxes nobody runs around asking people where are you going to get the extra money. I think the government can do better. Are there personal differences . Mr. Lehrer that are relevant to this. Sen. Dole well, my Blood Pressure is lower, my weight, my cholesterol, but i will not make health an issue in this campaign. So i think hes a bit taller than i am. But i think there are personal differences. I mean, im not i dont like to get into personal matters. As far as im concerned, this is a campaign about issues. Its about my vision for america and about his liberal vision for america. And not about personal things. You know, i think his liberal vision is a thing of the past. I know he wants to disown it. I wouldnt want to be a liberal either, mr. President , but youre stuck with it because thats your record, thats your record in arkansas the biggest tax increase in history. The biggest crime increase in history, the biggest drug increase in history in arkansas. Mr. Lehrer mr. President. Pres. Clinton well, just for the record, when i was governor we had the lowest Second Lowest tax burden of any state in the country, the highest job growth rate of any state when i ran for president and were widely recognized for a lot of other advances. But the important thing is, what are we going to do now. I think a targeted tax cut is better for our future, targeted to education and child rearing, with the rest of the education plan, hooking up all of our classrooms to the internet by the year 2000. Making sure weve got an army of reading volunteers, trained people to teach with parents and teachers so that our eight year olds can learn to read. Investing in our environment. Cleaning up twothirds of the worst toxic waste dumps. Those plans are better than this 550 billion tax scheme. Now, remember, folks, even senator doles campaign cochair here, senator damato, says hes got to cut medicare to pay for this. Everybody whos looked at it, 500 economists, seven nobel Prize Winners, say its bad for the economy. Its going to blow a hole in the deficit its going to raise taxes on nine Million People and require bigger cuts than the one i vetoed. Our plan is better, it will take us into the future with a growing economy and healthier families. Sen. Dole well, im really encouraged to know of your renewed friendship with al damato, and i know he appreciates it. You didnt even have tax cuts in your budget, mr. President , the first two years you were president. It wasnt until we had a Republican Congress you even thought about, you talked about tax cuts. Getting back to personal differences, i think, jim, if you are a little more specific, but i think the president could clarify one thing tonight and thats the question of pardons. I know you talked about it on the jim, with jim lehrer on the pbs show. And ive never discussed whitewater, as ive told you personally. Im not discussing whitewater now. But i am discussing the power the president has to grant pardons. And hopefully in the next segment you could lay that to rest. Mr. Lehrer mr. President. Pres. Clinton well, first of all, you know, he made that remark about senator damato. Hes arranged for me to spend a lot more time with senator damato in the last couple years so im more familiar with his comments than i used to be. Let me say what ive said already about this pardon issue. This is an issue theyve brought up. Its under, theres been no consideration of it, no discussion of it. I will tell you this i will not give anyone special treatment and i will strictly adhere to the law. And that is what every president has done, as far as i know, in the past but what every other president s has done. This is something i take seriously and thats my position. Sen. Dole but it seems to me the president shouldnt have any comment at all. Particularly where its someone where youve had business dealings. I mean, you may be sending a signal. I dont know, im not questioning anybody. But as a president of the United States, when somebody asks you about pardons, you say no comment, period. And i think he made a mistake. And i think when you make a mistake, you say i made a mistake. But apparently his position hasnt changed. If there are other specific areas, but beyond that i havent gotten into any of these things, as the president knows. Weve had that discussion. And again i know senator damato i think may have had a hearing or two on whitewater, i cant remember, but hes not my general chairman, hes a friend of mine. And so is senator kennedy a friend of yours. Pres. Clinton you bet. Sen. Dole i remember one day on the floor i said now, gentlemen, let me tax your memories, and kennedy jumped up and said, why havent we thought of that before. You know, so one of your liberal friends. Pres. Clinton thank you. Mr. Lehrer mr. President , 30 seconds. Pres. Clinton no comment. Sen. Dole whats the subject matter . Mr. Lehrer senator dole, if you could single out one thing that you would like for the voters to have in their mind about president clinton on a policy matter or a personal matter, what would it be . Something to know about him, understand it and appreciate it. Sen. Dole see, if i say anything its going to be misconstrued. I dont think there is even a race between the two, its about our vision for america. I happen to like president clinton personally. Im addressing him all evening as mr. President. I said in 1992 he didnt extend that courtesy to president bush. But i respect the presidency. Ive served under a number of president s. They all have their strengths and they all have their weaknesses. So id rather talk about my strengths. And i think i have my strengths and i think the best thing going for bob dole is that bob dole keeps his word. Its a question between trust and fear, and i would say, i think, mr. President , about all youve got going in this campaign is fear. Youre spending millions and millions of dollars in negative ads frightening Senior Citizens. I know this to be a fact because i had one tell me last week, senator dont cut my medicare. Im trying to save your medicare, just as i rescued Social Security with a bipartisan commission. I have relatives on medicare. I used to sign welfare checks for my grandparents. I know all about poverty and all about need and all about taking care of people, and thats been my career in the United States senate. And ill keep my word on the economic package. If i couldnt cut taxes and balance the budget the same time, i wouldnt look at you in the eye in your living room or wherever you might be and say that this is good for america. People will tell you who served with bob dole, agree or disagree, he kept his word. Thats what this race is all about. Pres. Clinton id like the American People to know that i have worked very hard to be on their side. And to move this country forward and were better off than we were four years ago. But the most important thing is my plan for the 21st century is a better plan. A targeted tax cut, a real commitment to educational reform. A deep commitment to making welfare reform work with incentives to the private sector to move people from welfare to work. Now we have to create those jobs, now that were requiring people to go do work. A commitment to continuing stepbystep healthcare reform with the next step helping people who are between jobs to Access Healthcare and not lose it just because they are out of work for a while. A commitment to grow the economy while protecting the environment. Thats what id like them to know about me; that ive gotten up every day and worked for the American People and worked so that their children could have their dreams come true. And i believe weve got the results to show were on the right track. The most important thing is, i believe weve got the right ideas for the future. And i like, i like senator dole, you can probably tell we like each other. We just see the world in different ways. And you folks out there are going to have to choose who you think is right. Sen. Dole well, id say the first homeless bill in the senate was the dolebyrd probably the byrddole bill, i cant remember who was in control then. I remember working with senator ribicoff from connecticut on the hospice program. We now have 2500 hospices. As i said, ive worked all my life when i was in the congress. I left on june 11th because i wanted the American People to know that i was willing to give up something. President clinton ran for governor in 1990 and said hes going to fill out his term, but he didnt. Hes president so i guess its a little better deal. But i wanted the American People to know i was willing to give up something. I wasnt just getting more power and more power. So i rolled the dice, i put my career on the line because i really believe the future of america is on the line. We can give you all these numbers, they dont mean a thing. If you are out of work, you have nothing to eat or you cant have medical care, or youre holding a crack baby in your arms right now, what do you do next . You know, americas best days are ahead of us. Ive seen the tough times, i know they can be better and ill lead america to a brighter future. Mr. Lehrer mr. President , what do you say to senator doles point that this election is about keeping ones word . Pres. Clinton lets look at that. When i ran for president , i said wed cut the deficit in half in four years; we cut it by 60 . I said that our economic plan would produce eight million jobs, we have ten and a half million new jobs. Were number one in autos again, record numbers of new Small Businesses. I said wed put, pass a crime bill that would put 100,000 police on the street, ban assault weapons, and deal with the problems that ought to be dealt with with Capital Punishment, including Capital Punishment for drug kingpins, and we did that. I said we would change the way welfare works, and even before the bill passed wed moved nearly two Million People from welfare to work, working with states and communities. I said wed get tougher with Child Support and Child Support enforcements up 50 . I said that i would work for tax relief for middle class americans. The deficit was bigger than i thought it was going to be. I think theyre better off, all of us are, that we got the Interest Rates down and the deficit down. Republicans talk about it, but were the First Administration in anybodys lifetime looking at this program to bring that deficit down four years in a row. We still gave tax cuts to 15 million working americans, and now ive got a plan thats been out there for two years, it could have been passed already, but instead the republicans shut the government down to try to force their budget and their plan on me, and i couldnt take that. But well get the rest of that tax relief. And so i think when you look at those results, you know the plan ive laid out for the future has a very good chance of being enacted if youll give me a chance to build that bridge to the 21st century. Mr. Lehrer senator. Sen. Dole well, there he goes again, that line has been used before, i mean, exaggerating all the things that he did. He didnt do all these things. Lets take all these four years in a row. He came in with a high growth rate, the 1990 budget agreement, which some, you know, didnt like, had some very tough cost controls, put a lot of pressure on congress. The s l crisis was over, theyre starting to sell assets, all that money was coming in. And he cut defense an extra 60 billion, threw a lot of people out of work. He talks about a smaller government. There are actually more people in government except for people in defense related jobs. Theyre gone. The governments bigger than it was when president kennedy was around, even though he says its not. In addition, Republican Congress cut 53 billion. So lets just, lets give credit where credit is due. Governor engler of michigan cut taxes 21 times, created a lot of new jobs. So did governor thompson, so did governor rowland. A lot of people ought to deserve credit, mr. President. When im president of the United States were going to have a Governors Council and were going to work directly with the governors to get power back to the people and back to the states. Pres. Clinton i think a lot of people deserve credit and ive tried to give it to them. But i believe that my plan is better than senator doles illadvised 550 billion scheme which ill say again will blow a hole in the deficit. Our plan will balance the budget, grow the economy, preserve the environment, and invest in education. We have the right approach for the future and looks at the results. It is not midnight in america, senator. We are better off than we were four years ago. Mr. Lehrer all right. Thats the last question, the last answer. Lets go now to the closing statements. Mr. President , youre first. Two minutes. Pres. Clinton well, first, jim, let me thank you and thank you, senator dole, and thank you, ladies and gentlemen, all of you listening tonight for the chance youve given us to appear. I want to say in the beginning that i am profoundly grateful for the chance that you have given me to serve as president for the last four years. I never could have dreamed anything like this would come my way in life, and ive done my best to be faithful to the charge youve given me. Im proud of the fact that america is stronger and more prosperous and more secure than we were four years ago. And im glad were going in the right direction. And ive done my best tonight to lay out my plans for Going Forward to an even Better Future in the next century. Id like to leave you with the thought that the things i do as president are basically driven by the people whose lives i have seen affected by what does or doesnt happen in this country. The auto worker in toledo who was unemployed when i was elected and now has a great job because were number one in auto production again. All the people ive met who used to be on welfare who are now working and raising their children. And i think what others could do for our country and themselves if we did the welfare reform thing in the proper way. I think of the man who grabbed me by the shoulder once with tears in his eyes and said his daughter was dying of cancer and he thanked me for giving him a chance to spend some time with her without losing his job because of the family and medical leave act. I think of all the people i grew up with and went to school with and who i stay in touch with and who nerve let me forget how what we do in washington affects all of you out there in america. Folks, we can build that bridge to the 21st century, big enough and Strong Enough for all of us to walk across, and i hope you will help me build it. Mr. Lehrer senator dole, your closing statement, sir. Sen. Dole thank you, jim; thank you, mr. President ; thank everyone for watching and listening. I want to address my remarks to the young people of america, because theyre the ones that are going to spend most of their life in the 21st century. Theyre the ones who have the challenges and they are people out there making predictions that its not going to be the same. Youre not going to have the opportunities; there are going to be more deficits, more drugs, more crime, and less confidence in the American People. And thats what youre faced with, the parents are faced with, and the grand parents are faced with. Its important, its their future. And i would say to those i know there are more young people experimenting with drugs today than ever before; drug use has gone up. And if you care about the future of america, if you care about your future, just dont do it. And i know that im someone older than you. But ive had my anxious moments in my life. Ive learned to feed myself and to walk and to dress. Im standing here as proof that in america the possibilities are unlimited. I know who i am, and i know where im from, and i know where i want to take america. We are the greatest country on the face of the earth. We do more good things for more people in our communities, our neighborhoods, than anywhere that i know of. This is important business. This election is important. I ask for your support, i ask for your help. And if you really want to get involved, just tap into my home page, www. Dolekemp96. Org. Thank you. God bless america. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2016] [indistinct conversations] [laughter] [applause] a wonderful job. A wonderful job. [indiscernible] you are watching American History tv, 48 hours of programming on American History every weekend on cspan3. Follow us on twitter, cspanhistory, to keep up with our schedule and the latest history news. Tonight, a tour of the roberts e. Lee memorial. Arlington house will close in 2016 for a yearlong restoration made possible by a gift by david rubenstein. The first wedding took place what made that wedding important was mariah and charles were both enslaved here and mariah was, in fact, believed to have been the daughter of the master. So, she was an enslaved woman from some type of relationship in which George Washington custis fathered a child by a woman enslaved here, a woman named barry on a clark. This is forcing us, in many how weo reexamine interpret the history of arlington. Here we have the story of slavery. And this place represents the founding ideals of this country. Georgeme built to honor washington, to value and celebrate the founder of the country, the house itself built by slaves, but then you have the family as well, the family relationship. George washington parke custis innocence in essence had two daughters. One was white. Was enslaved. Both great granddaughters of martha washington. Onwhats the entire program American History tv sunday at 6 p. M. Eastern, only on cspan3. American history tv