Transcripts For CSPAN2 WTO 20240706

Government with bio and Contact Information for every house and Senate Member and Important Information on congressional committees, the presidency cabinet, federal agencies and state governors. Scan the code at the right to order your copy today. Or go to cspanshop. Org. Its 29. 95 plus shipping and handling and every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations. Up next to director general of the World Trade Organization Ngozi Okonjoiweala discusses global trade and geopolitics. Hosted by American University here in washington, d. C. This is just over one hour. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] okay. Good morning, everyone. I am randall henning, i serve as the faculty chair of the International Economic Relations Program, and in dean absence is my post to welcome you to the beautiful s. I. S. Atrium for our special event, global trade, the Global Commons and geopolitics, opening observation introduce our two speakers and ventured over to them for the conversation. This event is organized by the school of International Service is International Economic Relations Program as a celebration of the inauguration, this academic year, of its two new masters degrees. These degrees combine study in International Trade and finance, political economy, and Research Methods to place students in International Organizations similar to the World Trade Organization, in Government Agencies and the private sector. The second of these are two degrees is a s. T. E. M. Degree of which i am in particularly of its innovations. This particular event is the firstof of what we foresee as an annual series on Global Economic governance. Our guest speakers as you know are deadly tl director general doctor Ngozi Okonjoiweala and University President sylvia burwell. President burwell is the 15th president of American University and the first woman to serve in this role prior to a you a resident burwell held two cabinet positions in u. S. Government, secretary of health and Human Services and director of the office of management and budget. She also held leadership positions in the built in the bill and Melinda Gates foundation and the walmart foundation, two of the largest foundations in the world. Un president burwell has led the university over the last six years including through ahr historic pandemic, and started the 500 million change cant wait Capital Campaign to find new efforts to support students, including a brandnew student Thriving Center at the heart of campus, and comprehensive strategy changemakers for a changing world. She has overseen the more than doubling of Research Funding from external organizations and under her leadership au became first urban university in the United States to achieve Carbon Neutrality and launch the first Antiracist Research and policy center. Dr. Okonjoiweala became director general of the wto in march of 2021. In college she graduated magna cum laude from harvard with a degree in economics and earned phd in regional economics and develop it at m. I. T. She then had a 25 year career at the world bank as a Development Economist rising to the number two position of managing director operations. Sheio served twice as nigerias finance minister, the first woman in that role, steering the country through trade and macroeconomic reform as well as a debt restructuring and extensive institutional reorganization. Minister in 2006. In 2012, she was the first woman and african candidate to contest the presidency of the world bank group, the first genuinely contested transition for that position. Dr. Ngozi has been chair for the vexing alliance and the African Union special envoy to immobilize Financial Support for the fight against covid19. She currently cochairs the Global Commission on the economy and climate with Nicholas Stern and paul pullman. She chairs the board of the Nelson Mandela institution and is a trustee for the carnegie endowment. Among her many contributions it must be mentioned she donated her chief economist to the International Economic Relations Program as our newest faculty member. Bob has organized this event with me and i am grateful to him. Please join me in welcoming president burwell and dr. Okonjo to this conversation. [applause] thank you. Thank you, professor henning, thanks, everybody for coming out thisve morning. Very busy week and were so thankful and grateful that you are here today. Were going to take a trip around the world today. I think its fair to say this morning here in a beautiful atrium will take a trip around where i will a trip around the world with someone whose breadth and depth in these issues is really i think its fair to say unparalleled. So its going to be a real treat. Were going to have time for questions. I will watch the clock to makes. Sure we have time for your question so be thinking about that as we are going to and having a little bit of a dialogue. I had the privilege of meeting ngozi the first time i think when, when i was at the gates foundation, early 2000s. I was working on increasing agriculture activity for smallholder farmers as well as all the Health Issues were working on at the bill and Melinda Gates foundation, and had the opportunity to meet you then, and then it was every issue we worked on, not just agriculture, anything we were working on as a foundation, working in and on the continent of africa. You were incredible counsel and help. Our paths have. Crossed many times since then, im privileged and its Incredible Opportunity today. I do want to mention we know you have over 20 honore degrees froe fabulous universities around the world, but your last visit here to this campus was last spring when we know you were given what you probably think is your most important Honorary Degree from American University. So we are thrilled that you come back, and so appreciative. Going to start with the reason you here this morning. You here for the Spring Meeting of the world bank which most of the people here would probably be familiar that is going on. I just wanted to start with you here at these world bank meetings. What are the three most important objectives that from where you sit now and the leadership role to have, both in deadly tl but in the World Economic system . What are the three objectives you have for these meetings . Thank you, sylvia, and let me say what a delight it is. I really do feel a part of American University. Every day, or every other week, bob sends me some email ee other to remind me. It was such a lovely ceremony for the Honorary Degree. So i feel part of this. I feel like i am with family, and thank you again for having me, sylvia. Your passive absolute amazing so its nice to be able to chat with you this morning. You asked meyo for the three man objectives of coming here. I came for the Spring Meeting but every time i come to washington i also take the opportunity to check in with ustr, if i can, and sometimes congress if theyre in session. I was there two weeks ago because congress is not inss session now so i came two weeks earlier and did my round then. So my first objective was to accomplish something, which is rather incredible. Yesterday, the United States deposited instrument of acceptance of the fisheries subsidies agreement. The First Agreement on environmental sustainability ever negotiated at the wto. [applause] very big. Just a quick word, that agreement had been negotiated to do away with 22 billion in harmful subsidies that are encouraging overfishing of our destroying ocean health. And it has been negotiated for more than two decades. We finally got it over the last june, and now my objective is to actually get it implementation on. We need twothirds of members to ratify and our objective is tora get it all done by next february. To have n the United States, eay on in the game, one of the largest fishing economies since a huge signal. We accomplish that yesterday. Im grateful to ustr on that, ambassador type. I think the second objective, you know the parallels during the m imf meeting of the g20 finance ministers. So those are going on in parallel. During this time a very tense geopolitical, drink this geopolitical tension that you refer to, sylvia, which are not Getting Better on the hill, i really felt like the chinau. S. Tensions are quite difficult and may not be Getting Better anytimee soon. One of my objectives is to remind the g20 finance ministers and all the other finance ministers and central bankers that are here, that are two important things you need to remember. One, we hope that these geopolitical tensions not manifest in fragmentation of world trade. We hear a lot about decoupling different trading blocs, and some of that may happen, but we need balance. Because if the world fragments into trading blocs, the welfare losses to both developed and developing countries, what impact in developing countries is huge. So having that conversation that we need to keep in mind that fragmentation will be costly to the world economy, we shouldnt throw away the baby with the bathwater. We shouldnt forget that trade integration has helped the world to achieve great poverty reduction, improvement in living standards, and we know it didnt do everything that it has some issues. Some people were left behind but we need to fix that, not throw away the system. Thats a very importantor objective that i would like to put across with these finance ministers. We have shown that it would cost the work from the wto standpoint if we decoupled into two blocks from my present lots of global gdp gdp in the long term. That is huge. I think my third objective is through what i have to say is remind everybody that the multilateral trading system is a Global Public good. I have termed it that. Its a Global Public good, and we need multilateralism to solve some problems. Even as we have this geopolitical tension, even as we have strategic competition, we must remember we also need strategic cooperation to solve Climate Change and all the other issues of the Global Commons. So those are the three things im trying to achieve. One is already achieved. Thank you so much, and were going to go into those little more but before we do that we kind of started with the present time going to go back a little bit to your childhood in nigeria. Can you talk a little bit about how your childhood in nigeria impacts what you do today . Well, thank you. I think my childhood, i was very, very fortunate to be brought up by first my grandmother until i was eight, almost nine because my parents were studying abroad. They were on scholarship in germany and so they couldnt take me. They didnt have enough money so that left me with my grandmother, who was a loving and very disciplined person, but she was also about community. Learning about, life is not about yourself but about how you serve your community, was very important. And learning skills very early in life. I learned how to cook by the time i was eight years old, and to make sure i help with the house underwent to the street. I think all those things made white and. My parents came back and both of them became University Academics academics by the way. That continuation of the theme of service, education is not about yourself. Its about what you can use it to do for others. Really continue with myal parens and particularly my father who thought his dogs in particular could do and should doda everything. And my five brothers, too. So that has led me into a career of service, both nationally and internationally, andth into the debbie teel. Because of me the question i was asked myself in any environment is, how is it going to help others . If it will serve others and make a difference and not me, if it will not, then not excited about it. That is great and help that is inspiringat to all of our students who are here and to our faculty and staff, and the whole community. Thank you because that is what as we think about this school of International Service, we are nott the school of international relations. We are a school of International Service because we deeply believe what you just said in terms of why you do it. The incredible o thing is in tes of assignments you get assigned anything and everything because of the breadth and the depth of your talent and skills. So you can help and serve in so many ways, and half. Im going to go from childhood to being finance minister in nigeria. When you were the finest mix of the country and thats when we first met, at that time nigeria sometimes was no for some challenges, challenges around issues of corruption, challenges around the issues of having Natural Resources and what that means in terms of both the countries economy as well as issues of equity in the country. Those were issues youre dealing with ben. Those issues seem to be corruption, of the resource issues seem to have spread around the world including some might even say right here at home. So as you think about how you worked on those issues and then, what lessons would you give our students and all of us in terms of thinking about those issues and working on them, whether t is in your own home country for internationally in a globall setting . Well thank you. Thats a very challenging question, but when you think about those issues,ab the word reform comes into your mind. Because in order to solve these issues you have to reform certain institutions. You have to change certain policies, and the way business is done. And the biggest ring that you need to focus on is when you reform or you may change, there are winners and there are losers. And if you dont bear that in mind you are going to get into trouble. So youve got to think through the reforms you are doing and ask yourself who are the winners. Because you have to, if theyre very difficult reforms, make sure that the winners understand they are winners, and that they actually back the reforms. Because the losers are going to be very loud and theyre going to do things that maybe, you know, trying their best to upset those reforms. But thats one lesson i learned not just to go into it blind. So winners and losers is very important. And sometimes you may not, you may try to coax the losers to believe that ultimately they win, which is the case. Not that theyre i going to lose in the long term but until theyre making money off of something and theyre going to lose in the short term, they fight. So you need too coax them that this reform ultimately will benefit everybody and their interest is in it. But its difficult. Thats why said dont dont forget the winners because they will be the ones who will back you. There will be silent people who dont understand whether they are winners or losers. Il communicate the reforms and why they are important, and what it is going to do to change the trajectory for the country and for people individually. Never forget what youre doing is about people. Youve got to explain to those people why they have to go through a bit of tough time in order to get to the good time. That is the big challenge that i think applies everywhere. We are in very difficult times now, in times were in country after country you find tremendous polarization. A lot of populism, protectionism is creeping in. It is unprecedented, in my view, what we are seeing now. So weve got to find means if you are a policy maker of trying to explain to people, that whatever it is youre trying to do, its for the benefit of all. Its not from one party or the other, one segment of the population or another. Second, you have to find out those people who have been left behind. Remember i refer to the fact that globalization, the multilateral treaty system left some people behind, poor people in rich countries, poor countries. You have to find a way to be inclusive of them now. He does if you do not include them or you dont explain that you arebe trying to be inclusiv, you will continue to have those sentiments which divide, and that doesnt help any country or any economy. Thank you and o im going to, the answers you just gave and one of your objectives about communicating as trade as a public good, bring that together in the next question which i have had the chance, i worked on nasa back in the clinton years in terms of trade agreements, worked on the a session of china to the wto. Work and spent time on that issue. I work with my colleague michae froman on the tpp which was he agreement we got. We just couldnt get it through the congress. But all of that, the evolution of what youre talking about about theio polarization i think especially in the area of trade, here in the u. S. , trade has become even more controversial thanan the times that i worked n it. You were talking about that communicating about as aha publc good. Do you believe theres still a consensus in the u. S. That market opening and multilateralism and trade are the way to go . How do you think about where we are in terms of that . I know you were talking about some of the solutions, the communications and those sortshi of things and we could spend more time but you think were at a place where its no longer a dominant view and so weve got to maybe think differently about how we communicate, think differently about these pieces and parts . I absolutelyy do. I think after talking to people on the hill, two congresspeople, and im very grateful to them because in spite of perhaps these views that trade may not be the best liberalizing open trade, trading system may not be to the interest of the country, they still listened and were exchanged. But far and away thats not the consensus t anymore. I feel like that consensus has gone. People are very focused, some of them, focused in on domestic issues and not really out internationally. And i think theres at bit of article about this from from the Peterson Institute, very nice article. He used to be a Deputy Director general of the wto but the Peterson Institute for some really nice work and analysis on some of these issues. Theyd really did lay it out, that consensus is no longer there. But the issue is this is the throwing out of the baby with the bathwater that i was talking about. If the multilateral trading system did not exist, if the wto did not exist, the opportunity costs of not having it would be so huge you would have to reinvent it. Maybe people reinvent at slightly different i dont know but you need the multilateral trading system. I do want to back up and say two things. First, some of the numbers, the geopolitics is tough. The tensions are high but i just want to remind people that as of now, 75 of world trade still takes place on wto terms, still those terms that were negotiated long ago. So the World Trading system is still operating on that basis now. , number two, world trade numbes are at an alltime high. Trade that is going on and 25 trillion in goods, 7 trillion in services. The numbers are saying that maybe the rhetoric is a little bit ahead of the actual numbers. I can say that for you u. S. , china trade. 690 billion so as the prepandemic peaks that we saw. The same with the eu, about 900 billion in eu. And im giving you the numbers to say that the rhetoric is a little ahead of the actual numbers, but that does mean that we should yes, numbers are showing that consumers and businesses are still pursuing trade within the worlds trading system, but this trade numbers are based on investments that you have made before and my fear is that the rhetoric might lead us to switching investments in such a way that we move toward that fragmenttation that i talked about, we so trade slowing and growth slowing and you can see changes in patterns for certain sectors between the u. S. And china, trade is changing and diminishing in those sectors. So we need to look through the numbers in order to understand that there may be worrying signs, okay, were seeing worrying signs in trade. So that is what i think we should focus on and say how do we get the balance . How do we get those who are worried that their own practice and this comes to the china issue, the reason the rhetoric against and the tension is high at least on the trade side is the feeling that some members and say china, may be pursuing practices in subsidizing their enterprises that may not that may go against the level Playing Field that the wto, you know, supports. And if you talk to china, china will tell you that theyre also concerned that some of the types of subsidies including the agricultural subsidies may be also going against a level Playing Field as some of the countries in the west are doing that. So, what is wto members, especially the large countries and developing countries, too, all have complaints about level Playing Field issues. This is some of the suspicion and aggravation and talk against trade. Let me end my saying look, let us not let our sentiments run away with the actual facts. We are working now to look at layout the facts on subsidies across the board, from the wto, joined with the world bank and the oecd, all of these International Organizations look at this issue, and try to get the facts on the table so that we can begin as conversation, that can actually lead us to do away with these suspicions and trying to restore the balance of how the trade is being seen and perceived. Thank you. And this will be my last question so if folks can start thinking about, weve got mics over here and here if you all have questions. This is be my last and then well turn to the audience for your questions. You talked about getting the facts and helping people understand the facts, which there are some issues with whether that kind of still works, but lets just for now assume that it does in terms of a way to make progress. And one of the issues that we havent touched on, in this divide thats occurred in our country where weve moved to a place where this idea of multilateralism in trade is no longer a sort of majority feeling we have from the right and the left joining together in their opposition to issues of trade sometimes. One of the things that gets confused in here is the impact of technology. So, many people who, as you said, there were haves and havenotes and some of the people were not included, that may be different socioeconomic levels in our own country or countries around the world. Part of the impact is technology as much as it is trade. And can you speak about how you, as youre trying to help people understand trade as a Global Public good. How do you have the technology helping people understand some of the facts around some of the difficulties and changes are more related to technology than they are to actually trade . Thank you so much. That is such an important factor that its often not recognized and trade is unfairly blamed sometimes, which its not really responsible for. Technology and technological change, which is going on that pace. If you look at certain industries, lets take coal mining, for example, and you go to west virginia, many of the changes there and where people are out of jobs, its not really about any trade, its about technology and that field and the changes and the fact that, you know, perhaps the u. S. May not be spending or paying as much attention to active policies, that active that it should be doing, that it should be spending more. I think some of the scandanavian countries, 1 or 2 of gdp on these issues. What do i mean . I mean trying to make sure that those who are thrown out of jobs are retrained, reskilled, you know, thinking back some of that types of jobs to the areas where theyre in because the economic theory supposed to migrate where the jobs are, but sometimes they do not because they have cultural ties, can you bring new jobs where they are and can you reskill, can you spend the kind of i think the u. S. Spends much less than 1 of gdp and i dont know about that number on the social policies designed to retrain and reprepared people much less than other people do. If you combine that, then people begin to feel its because my job is taken away. Am i saying that some manufacturing were not taken away as result of competition, im not saying that. But youre absolutely right that some of the technology and changes in industry is often ignored. I tell you, that its ignored. The amount of consumer goods coming in and the fact that poor people have access to less expensive goods is often forgotten, you know. I mean, if you were to talk into walmart or you know, or to kmart or any of these stores that have these lovely cotton things, i love cotton, you can find that reasonable prices and other household goods. These are all because of the integration of trade and the supply chains that we have. So we mustnt forget that. If we reshore everything and we expose ourselves to risks. Look what happened with the baby formula issue here. When you reshore all supply chains and theres an event, theres a risk and you may have to open up how was it solved . Solved by opening up lines of supplies to come from elsewhere. So look, trade, i want to just end this question by saying that trade is a tool for managing resilience and risk and this is why ultimately im still grateful to people on the hill because in spite of maybe being inspect skeptical and theres r realization when im trying to explain and communicate, ultimately the question is, let us try to reform those aspects that dont work. We dont throw away the baby with the bath water. You need trade. You need trade. One in five in consumer are traded and if you dont trade people go home. Just think about that. And if we have any questions, could folks get over to the microphones so we can do these questions . Thank you so much and weve got two microphones, i can go back and forth. Microphone to microphone. Why dont we start here. If you could please introduce you yourself and tell you tell folks your affiliation with au, friend, community member, school student, faculty staff, whatever, love to hear that before you ask your question. Thank you. My name is patty, and i teach at the law school and ive been teaching wto and weve had one on jewel making and settlement. And a hiatus that well be coming to the wto. So i wanted to worth intellectual property. Into acronyms in trade i guess. One thing i wanted to talk about is how, if you wto, exists would have to recreate it and as a lawyer, i think theres a lot that the wto does that only the wto can do that is not easy for the world to understand. And since in the last 50 years weve seen this rise of the Administrative State theres the work that it done in sort of bringing together regulatory convergence at the wto. That even we saw it with the pandemic. The depository of the laws and restrictions. Even right now, the pandemic theres a lot of people saying it should actually be in wto, not at who. I am very keen for that to be understood and that role to be strengthened because its not in the general conversations about trade. Wto is more than just, its an actual convener of regulators, you know, and the regulator mentality is different than a trade negotiator, and these two are converging in the wto. Regulators tend to be more territorial and regulators, theyre interested in bargaining. And interested in world peace and the role of the wto is key and communicating that and strengthening that role, im wondering your thoughts. Sorry to be long winded. Very quickly because i know people are waiting, absolutely well stated. There are things going on at wto that are not as wellknown. You know, is critical and we have committees i think the only place in the world where you have members who can come together to actually discuss differences in standards and how we handled products, good and services and people dont know this. So, just in short, theres a lot of work, technical barriers to trade. You know, having a place where members can talk about the other things in trade and the ordinary person may not be thinking about, these are things going on at wto that people dont know. So, thank you, were trying to communicate better and ill end your question by saying, one thing we asked to communicate. People dont understand the purpose of the wto, especially young people think, wow, this organization. Written in the preamable in the document that created wto says that the purpose is to enhance living standards, help create employment, and support sustainable development. That is the reason why i wanted to go to the wto. There could be nothing, nothing more noble than that. And how weve got away from communicating that the wto is about people, and thus many other things is one of the challenges that i have to reverse this image. Thank you. So were going to talk lets take two questions, lets go this side and lets do two at once. Im a visitor here. Im from trade land in washington ap used to work as a secretary. So my question is about gender. What can trade policy do for gender . Its an important question because we see, for instance, in afghanistan, the economy is collapsing because theyve sent all their women home and taken away their jobs and yet, in so many countries, you know, you say trade will the rising tide lifts all boats, but the boats that are owned by women all theyre small and they have leaks. Boats owned my men float higher are bigger. What can trade policy do for gender since gender is so often a domestic policy . Well, thank you very much. This is one of my passions at wto, by my office with me here, nicole, maybe you can stand up. So i am so keen on seeing how trade can empower women because weve found out through research jointly done by wto on the world bank, women who are in businesses that export generally earn twice as much as those who sell domestically. So what if we could and you know that in many countries its smes create jobs and owned many owned by women, everywhere, actually. How can we help more women and enterprises onto regional and global value chains . Because that will improve the earnings and now seeing the wto and the world International Trade center intervene on supply side issues. So its not just agreements, but we have the ability to help get women access to markets, improve the quality of their products, help them understood the technical standards they have to meet to break into certain markets, explain to them how to get that first of frayed finance and this is what we have to do and were trying to increase our ability to do that at the wto, including with itcc. Offshoot. And we have 129 members who have are going, carrying on a dialog on women in trade as we speak with a view of trying to see whether we can make better rules and a better environment for women. Just hit on the issues, when i was at walmart, on womens Economic Empowerment and sought womens businesses, Critical Path issues that we had to knock down in order to get there. And it is the womens sell the companies, financing issues, its all of those issues, when you do that and youre actually a business, women creating products, who does all the purchasing . You actually create a virtual cycle when you do it and tap into the things that are working. Thats exactly and partnering with the private sector to get it done because thats where the womens businesses can all grow. And sylvia, Digital Economy is lib lating women and making it more possible for them to get on the value chains. Thats exactly how we did it that many years ago, women did it online, we did sales around the world online and incredible part of how to get this work done. Next question. Hello, this thank you, can you hear me . Thank you for coming to speak to us today. My question is regard to the United States with the call with the wto and i picked this story up im a u. S. Foreign policy grad student and intern at American Academy of diplomacy and picked up the story in january u. S. Wanting to reform pt appeals bench. Has there been any progress on that issue or and also, do you feel that there can be some areas to form within that process . Thats a very good question. The biggest one of the biggest reform challenges in the wto is to reform the dispute Settlement System, which has been not all of it, the first panel is working, partially paralyzed during the Trump Administration because the u. S. Had criticisms on the system. Some of them valid. Now, the issue is that has been trading for a while and now progress, and i want to commend the u. S. Because you know, the usdr has been carrying on some informal dialog and discussion with other members to find out what they think and its important to do that because developing countries also have issues. Its not only the u. S. That has issues with the system. Weve actually moved to a second phase where there is now leading these discussions and eventually they will lead to a place where we have proposals for text and then eventually negotiations. Theres a deadline to reform the dispute Settlement System by 2024 which was agreed to by trade ministers in june. So, were seeing some progress and its one of the deliverables we have for the in the area next year. Thank you very much. Next. Hello, im cameron allen, my question is what goals do you have for the wto to bring trade governance and Climate Governance cooperation together considering the different challenges for developed and developing countries . So i you know, people view trade and the wto as part of the problem for Climate Change because of the logistics of trade. I mean, thats about 7 of global of Carbon Emissions and aviation maybe 3 . Numbers like that. So, people often think of that, but they dont think of trade and the wto as part of the solution. And it squarely is. And i think about it and what role do i see the wto play and trade. And i tell people that we could not solve we cannot get to net zero by 2050 without trade and two reasons for it. Just think about how you the diffusetechnology, and how do you get economies scale in its use, how do developing countries get access, how does it happen . Through trade. If you cant get this from where theyre made to where theyre used so it would set us back. So, you know, go ahead and think about it. Trade is adaptation and mitigation. Adaptation to where you have a climate event, how do you recover, how do you get the goods and services you need to recover . Its through trade. So trade is a huge part of the solution and i think another thing we could do is also to see how we can lower the costs of some environmental goods and services that could be critical to getting connect zero by having an environmental goods and services negotiated with a modest set of goods and show this in 2016 because the goods led to many and then it seemed to be benefitting certain countries more, we can step back with a limited set of goods and start that exercise. I think that would be a contribution. I could go on and on. There are so many ways and its so exciting to think about how trade and the wto can be part of net zero. Thank you. I think we have time for maybe one more. Maybe another, but well see. Sylvia, can i suggest something, maybe we take all the questions and then i try to we are going to take them all quickly, if everybody can well do the last six questions and do three over here and three over here and then we will answer those and wrap up. Hi, good morning, im from cambodia. Im a fellow from Humphrey Public School at university of minnesota and Organization Called support enterprise we work a lot with small and medium womenled business. You have been discussing a lot about agendas, how women can access so my question probably you already have done so, but touch on it. So i want to know about what are the supporting system from the wto to help small womenled business from the developing country to the global market. Thank you. Hi, im luca. International student from chile and undergrad. And in my classes we talk about special economy change rates and differences recently trying new currency like in argentina. When you hear stories like from your perspective like how does that like does that like for trade, if so, take it forward and they become more like a thing and what are the main consequences and the main concerns that you may have or using natural part of trade. Im sorry, when i hear the story right. I missed something. You said when i hear the stories. Like the reports, for instance, india trying to trade in rubies or new currencies. Okay. What are your thoughts on all of that. Thank you. And it is a blessing to be here with you. Im james laddie williams. When i was in graduate school at princeton in one of my classes a professor Jennifer Widener made us write for our final, a review of your book reforming the unreformable when i knew i was coming to this function i went and dug through nearly six years of email archives to that essay and ive printed a copy for you and im going to give it to you to honor you and thank you for your example. [applause] because to have the chance to learn about how to change nigeria from nigeria at a princeton is a moment i will cherish for my life. I recently got engaged to my partner and i know i have a future in nigerias Public Service. My question is, how do you hold it together . How do you be distinctive in the president s cabinet and be a distinctive partner at home and parent because i need those lessons, im thinking of marriage now and im thinking about Public Service in my future, i need the tactics to make sure that i succeed in the federal government and that i succeed in my family. Thank you. Great question. We are going over here, thats terrific. [applause] hand us the paper well go here and thank you, thats wonderful. Im doug palmer with politico and my question with the appellate body. Basically whats your sense of the membership in terms of what sort of solution you think that they could support . Theres this perception that the u. S. Just wants to do away with the appellate body and maybe replace it with some sort of voluntary system that would be used on case by case basisment no standing appellate body. Do you think thats something that they could get on board with. Thank you. Its a pleasure to have you here, maam. My question is regarding one particular group of commodities which Raw Materials which has become indefensible in modern technology, the element. Like theyre used from mobile phones to the lasers and when we are talking about geo common, its geographical distribution is skewed in a few countries. Is there any debate, dialog or regulation in wto two equal distribution of the various elements. Thank you. And well take this last question. Hello, madam director. Wonderful to hear from you. Im jean meyer, an au alumnus. I am concerned about issues relating to developing countries and one of those is indonesia recently brought a case, well, no indonesia did not bring the case, eu brought the case against indonesia to the World Trade Organization and it was ruled for the European Union and indonesia is eye peeling it appealing it, with indonesia want to hold onto its nickel and in the country and create ev batteries there to climb up the chain supply to a higher value rather than exporting cheap and importing expensive which i think is a problem for developing countries and goes back to Mahatma Gandhi in india. The second a hypothetical, a researcher in europe looked at this and we have the inelastic economy that we want to get off of, oil. But theres a cartel that controls, that has a lot of influence on the price of that oil and theres an agreement that that commodity is bought in u. S. Dollars and i think that is a very difficult kind of handicap for many developing countries they have to get the dollars and then they have to deal with wherever the price goes. What would happen if a group of developing countries came to the World Trade Organization and brought a case against the opec cartel. Okay. I said wed travel around the world and we certainly are. Wow, what a group of questions. All very interesting, yeah. Very quickly, on the issue from cambodian colleague on support systems for women, i spoke a bit about that. We there are two ways we want to help women, one is to see how within our agreements we can mainstream gender, gender friendly agreements that take into account the role of women and a plural lateral, Services Regulation trying to do away with bureaucracies in the Services Trade and thats the first one provisions making sure that women would have equal opportunity and wed like to see more, we dont have enough. But thats one way. On the support system, these are supply side issues, what can we do practically to help women cross those barriers that sylvia and i spoke about, the National Trade center actually does that work and i have to tell what i saw them do in my own country with a group of women which i didnt know before i became director general for trade, the work na a group of women share with producers. Who are trying to break into the american and european market, but could not, because they didnt meet the quality standards for sanitary and svs, and itc and wto we also have a fund, for standards development, but we worked with them to get them over, some years to get them to those standards and the pride i have is that today their product has been exported into europe from where they were, and its been used in italy to make a beautiful you know, its that kind of intervention that we try and we have to do more. Resources, but we can do those things. On chile, you know, this is the take on the issue of trying to get away from trade in the dollar or use of the dollar as the prime currency in the world and introduce other currencies. It would take a lot of doing because the dollar is so deeply ingrained as International Currency of reference. However, you see countries, as you said, beginning to make agreements with each other to trade in local currency. You see some regional agreements or regional groupings in asia, for instance, and you see direct agreements between countries, it could be india and russia, it could be china, you know, trade in yuan, for instance, and its beginning to happen and i think it will increase as we go along. The reason i say this is talking to policy makers who sense that maybe, you know, trading in dollars, it can become also, i dont know what word to use, like a punitive there can be punishments levied and you think countries think how can we move away from total dependence on this to other currencies. Its at the nascent stage, it would take a lot of doing, but i see thinking going in that direction. Its the issue of if the u. S. Defaults and cant pay our debts, it will accelerate the changes and one of the things and arguments why you shouldnt default because it will accelerate the changes that are starting. So there are pressures that are american and i think the u. S. Needs to balance this because with the reserve currency of the world is a huge privilege and a huge thing. Okay. The thank you for, im going to read your essay. I always say that there, when i didnt know if your book gets recommended to be reviewed in a class then you know that maybe youve done something. [laughter] i didnt know that. That was a difficult and interesting book to write. So, your question is about life. You know, how do i hold it together. How do you balance your family and your work. And its good to get it asked by a man, not a woman. Typically when im in places its always the women who say how do i. So that shows that you know that you have to be a 5050 person with your partner and thats, you know, how you theres no perfect answer and i want to quote done in my most recent book on women and leadership. We interviewed her, julia, and myself, coauthored the book and we asked her this question as one of the few only two women in the world to have a baby in office, we asked her how do you balance this is a question many women have and she says, i dont balance, i just make it work. So, theres no perfect answer or we could have cloned it and sold it and patented it. But what i have to tell you is this, first of all your work or your private life, you need a partner who understands that what you do matters and you understand that what she or he does matters and you both support each other. And both share equally. Thats the only way its going to work. And you need a conversation about that and i often tell young people getting married who ask people thinking im going to change this person and going to do this this way. No, have the conversation before you get into that marriage about what you care about and they care about and how an understanding. Its not on getting it together with work, youre nigerian and this is one of the most interesting countries in the world. Its one of the most difficult probably chaotic in many ways. [laughter] but its also one of the most interesting. And i always say to people whenever i step into my country i get so excited about it. So you will have to understand one thing, people are not going to say, oh, many people coming from the diaspora and people will welcome them with open arms and crown them for coming back. And they went to the u. S. For years and then come back and tell me what to do. You have to be humble and show you know whats happening on the ground and be wellgrounded, but have some principles. Principles of operation because there will be many pressures and temptations and have the courage of your conviction. Thank you. Okay. Now, quickly. Asked about the sense of the other members, where is doug. Hi, doug. The sense of the membership. Its going to be quite a tough conversation, doug, thats what im sensing. What i sense from the other members is that they wanted, still wanted twotier system. Now, let me step back and say that some of the criticisms made by the u. S. I think are valid and we need to recognize that. Theres no reason why, you know, say the appellate body should take more than 90 days to give rulings that was originally mandated and it goes into years. That may be because cases are getting more complicated and sophisticated, but we can do something about this. Overreach, yes, maybe we need to look at some of that. So, thats some valid criticism. Other members have two developing countries through the system is not easy to access cess, but theres a strong desire foretwotier system. Is that necessarily the appellate body recreated the way it was before . Im not sure. And waying to have a twotier time that is someone different and more creative, maybe. I sense more openness now to discussing that on all sides than i did before. I think a few months ago, you know, members would say, the appellate body, the appellate body and i sense more openness and discussing other ways, whether it would be what you said, i dont know. Its going to be a very tough conversation, but we need to go there. On the rare earth, actually, the wto its a very good question because this is all the rage now and concentration where the rare earths are found in countries and so china does a lot of processing, as well as it also has a lot of this, but its certainly that the wto, look at some of the numbers, shows that the concentration on the point of view of china is diminishing, you know. I think with these rare earths being so much in demand, more and more countries i explore and more places feel they have rare earth and even sweden recently, there was found that they have some, chile, of course, and drc. So, now, any regulation of that, im not sure the wto is the right body for that. We can monitor the concentration of where these things are and how that is changing over time and share that information with our members. Because that helps to release and reduce tension amongst members, ascertain members are cornering the market. The regulation, im really not sure what we are cut out to do. The eu case. And this is the last one. Eu case against indonesia. I cant comment on cases, im not going to dodge it. And the issue of oil and cartel can they bring a case to the wto, im trying to see how you could formulate that case and whether the wto is the right place to do that. This is an issue of competition. Ill have to reflect on it. I dont have an answer for you. But im not i dont know the shape and against which agreement we would have to judge this. Its people its a cartel so you say its anticompetitive and maybe this is the reason to bring the case, but i just dont know on this one, a case against opec by a developing country. That would be interesting. That would be. Well, a huge thank you to you. Join me in thanking our guest, ngozi, thank you so much. Thank you. Im going to ask professor henning come up as you and i step right beside the picture because we have a special thing to do and we want to get you out on time and you and i are going to walk right off the stage and the special covered thing and professor henning, ill ask you to come up. On here, were going to unveil a portrait that will be hung right here in sis. [applause] beautiful. Thank you so much. So, this photo will go on the wall of fame here at sis. And we look forward, dr. Ngozi, to continuing this conversation with you at a future time and well have other events here at atrium on Global Governance in the future and for now i will close the session and ask you to acknowledge dr. Ngozi and president burwell one more time with a round of applause. [applause]. [inaudible conversations] campaign 2024 coverage is your front row seat to the front central election. Watch the coverage of the candidates on the campaign trail, meet and greets and speeches, campaign 2024 on the cspan network. Cspan now, our free mobile video app or online on cspan, your unfiltered view of politics. Fridays at 8 p. M. Eastern, cspan brings you after words from book tv. A program where nonfiction authors are interviewed by journalists legislators and others on books. This week, speaking about efrts to shift how native america is viewed through her photos and her book, project 562. Shes interviewed by University President. Wah on cspan. Coronation of King Charles Iii take place. His mother, Queen Elizabeth ii