Distortions the way the story was told and other public records. You can watch this and other programs online at booktv. Org. Were back now with more live original to of thing a annual gaithersburg festival. Melvin goodman will talk about his time with the cia. [inaudible discussion] welcome to the gaithersburg book festival. Im audrey and im washington independent review of books representative here helping at this festival. Its a city that proudly supports the arts and humanity. Were pleased to gripping you this fabulous event thanks to the generous support of sponsors and volunteers. When you see them, please say thanks. A few announcements. Please silence your cell phones. If youre on social media, use the hash tag gbs and i think i see gbs17. Your feedback is valuable to us. Surveys are able. By submitting a century ray you will be entered into a drawing for a 100 series to gift card. Melvin goodman will be signing books after the presentation. Copies of his book right here are on sale the politic and prose tent. This is a free event but helps the book city of if you buy a book. The more books we sell another our events, the more publishers want to send the authors here to speak with us, and purchasing books from our partner, politic and prose. Benefiting our local economy. So we hope youll buy a book today, or several books. Melvin goodman was a soviet analyst the cia in the department of state for 24 years and a professor of International Relations the National War College for 18 years. He serve the u. S. Army in athens, greece, for three years and was intelligence adviser from 1971 to 72. Is the working for the center for International Policy in washington, dc and adjunct professor of government at Johns Hopkins university. His latest bikes hissing blower the cia an insiders condition to the politics of intelligence and coauthor edits several books, including insecurity , gorbachevs retreat , the war americas pursuit of the star wars illusion. Bush league diplomacy. How the neocontives are putting the world at risk, and failure of intelligence, the decline in fall of the cia. His articles and oped have mend the New York Times, harpers, foreign policy, the Baltimore Sun and be Washington Post and the lives in bethesda, maryland. His book is very interesting. I was once recruited for the cia i found this very interesting. So thank you very much. [applause] thank you very much. Its nice to be back here gene. Especially when its not raining. I was here three years ago with National Insecurity and this is a wonderful festival and just a wonderful event. Ill start with may 8th, 2017, which is a very important date for two reasons. One reason, thats when the book came our and it was important to me because i had to submit it to the cia for review as part of my contract with the cia. It took them 11 months to review this book. Now, i know theyre slow reading, but i think that goes beyond the limits. And raises a real right to speak or freedom of speech issue ill get to maybe the end of the talk. The other reason why may 8th, 2017, is very important to me is because thats the day sally yates testified. I found her testimony riveting. And it was riveting on several levels. But the most important level to me and why i have such incredible respect for that woman is the highest duty of any become servant at any level of government is to expose misconduct. Is to tell the truth when it comes to matters of legality or morality or simple transgression or misconduct. And one of the reasons why i wrote the book, this particular book, was basically to tell my story, and the story is a simple one. I spent 42 years with the government. When you look at my service in the army and the department of defense and the Central Intelligence agency and the department of state, throughout that entire period, the 42 year period, i had security clearances the highest level. So, i know what security is. I know about the importance of security. But i also learned over a period of time and not that it you dont enter Public Service to become a dissident, let alone a whistleblower, but i also learned theres an incredible in universe intelligence and think about the misuse of intelligence and in our history there have been four war wes have fought where intelligence was glued a dishonest way to justify in the use of force. The mexicanamerican war, the spanishamerican war, the vietnam war, of course, is obvious, and then one of the worst examples of all, which i dealt with, was the iraq war, which was a total misuse of intelligence, total fly terms of everything the American Public was told. Now, another reason why i decided to write the book was the importance of the whistleblower, and i dont like the term whistleblower. Never liked it. It has very bad connotation, the connotation of a snitch or a rat fink or stoolie, and that is not what a whistleblower is all about. I give a certain amount of credit, even though im disturbed by ralph nader did in the year 2000 but it was ralph namedder who made the word whistleblower respectable from the writing in 1970s, and thats extremely important. When you think about the who isle blower in terms of the great disaster think of the role of the whistleblower in watergate. I know all the credit goes to bob woodward and carl bernstein. Very little credit or fame ever goes to the whistleblower niksch this case, mark felt. And when the Nixon White House was first dealing with the problem that there were serious leaks that had to come from the top the United States is the ship of state that leaks from the top, not from the bottom. Haldeman new it was mark felts. He told richmond nixon, i think its mark felt the fbi. The deputy the fbi. And nixons First Response was his jewish . And haldeman wants no, i think these catholic. I dont know what either one would have to do with it but the role of mark felt in the case of watergate is extremely significant. When i think of vietnam dish dont know what the first thought that comes to your mind is its the pentagon papers and when i think of the pentagon papers i think of daniel elseburg and the work that Daniel Elsberg did in the 1970 and continues to do, including writing a very nice blush for the book that im very proud of and in june im going to appear with Daniel Elsburg in berkeley. When you think of the scandals of torture and abuse become that the need nor a whistleblowers think about abu ghraib. That involved a whistleblower. Know Edward Snowden is extremely controversial and its clear he broke laws. Edward snowden admitted to the fact he has broken certain laws dealing with certain kinds of intelligence, communications intelligence, signals intelligence, but Edward Snowden told us about unconstitutional not just illegal but unconstitutional behavior in the white house that was aimed at all of the american people. This was an important contribution to our understanding and here is where whistleblowers play a very important roleey. Just read about Chelsea Manning being released from jail. She received a pardon from president obama. And i know theres a lot of confusion and controversy about Chelsea Manning but she exposed war crimes in iraq. My point is in trying to understand what a whistleblower is and why a whistleblower act the way he does i think i know why these people act the way they did. You see something in public life at some point you know is wrong, and sometimes it becomes so overwhelming that you feel that you have to do something about it. And i think mostly whys blowers in my case extremely naive about what it means to throw yourself in front of a moving train, which is the American Government in my case throwing himself in from of the nomination of robert gates as the cia director in 1991 when i testified before the Senate Intelligence commit year, but i think this is what motivates the whistleblower. You reach a point where its wrong not to say something, wrong not to do something. And i must say in all of the whistleblower examples that i cite in the book and that ive looked at and tried to understand, every whistleblower as far as im concerned has been vindicated. Daniel elsburg has certainly been vindicated. Edward snowden for a lot of us, including myself, clearly has been vindicated. Its controversial that he left the country but he left the country because of the terrible treatment that thomas drake received. He is the National SecurityAgency Whistleblower who was then accused of violating the espionage act from 1970 by the Obama Administration. What find interesting about that is that issue was put before the bush administration, and george w. Bush, who is vilified in many quarters, decide he would not good after thomas drake, but barack obama, harvard trained lawyer and two talked constitutional law, did allow the government to good after thomas drake in the worse possible way, threatening him with spending the rest of this life in prison, until a judge lectured the Justice Department lawyers and threw the cassoulet of court. Let me spend the case out of court. Let me spend a few minutes on my example. Not as dramatic another snowden or drake and not elsburg and other case. In the 1980s when Ronald Reagan came into office and the appointed an ideology to be the cia director, william casey, i first hat to confront the politicization of intelligence. Ronald reagan wanted to increase defense spending in an unprecedented way in peacetime. Never seen these kind of increases before a in peacetime. You had to justify it. You had to have an next. You head to have a threat. What casey did and his deputy, robert gates who went on to become the cia director and then secretary of defense under both bush and own, was to distort the intelligence, to make the soviet union look ten feet tall, the soviet union as a threat, the receive wrote union involved in the attempt to as nate the pope in 1981. The soviet union involved in international terrorism. None of this was true. And i say through the early 80s and fought these issues for then 1986 i decided to leave and go to the National War College to teach, and in 1991, when bob gates was nominated by george h. W. Bush to be the cia director, that is when i contacted the senate intelins committee and testified against the gates nomination. Thats not the first time he was nominated. He was nominated for the first time in 1987 by Ronald Reagan. This was after the sudden death of bill casey from a brain tumor. Gates went before the Senate Intelligence committee and got a call at night, senator david bourne. The oklahoma chairman of the Senate Intelligence committee who had to tell bob, you have a problem. The committee does not believe you in terms of your disavows of nothing anything about being involved in irancontra, cant get your name out of it inee, and bobgates winds to the white house the next day, thicked president and pulled his name out. Four years later he was nominated against. A very controversial nomination because of my accusations of politicization, and led to more votes against bobgets registered against all cia directors combined, going back to 1947 when harry truman started the cia, and he was confirm. This meant one who has politicized intelligence was sent back to run the agency where the poll littization takes place. You cannot imagine the moral problems and ethical problems created when someone you know who is involved in politicization comes back to run the agency. Thats why i have so much sympathy what is going on in every agency in government when you have a president who selected cabinet directors who have sworn essentially to if not destroy the departments they have been sent to certainly to weaken them in every fundamental way. So, that was essentially my reason for going before the Senate Intelligence committee, and then being disappointed by the way it was handled by the press, his thought did not rise to the challenge, and ill give you one anecdote reveals what is wrong with the press, even though theyve have gotten the act together in the last 120 day us. White house started to leak very uncomplimentary things about me issue should say. None of them were true, and cia people who were called denied all the stories and i was tipped off by a couple of journalists, one from time magazine, one from the Washington Post, but decided, two can play at this game so i started leaking leakid leaked to ben wiser, with the Washington Post, and elaine from the New York Times two papers with the most cloud in washington, as they do today and for the first self dives the tim, elaine played it straight in the New York Times. She reported what i was telling her what, the white house was telling her. A certain amount of false eye with lance. Her reporting eye with lance. Midwe were her propertying shifted to benefiting bobgates and his confirmation, after the hearings were over, called elaine to have lunch, and i had an agenda, and halfway through the lunch i raised my agenda item which is why was so it obvious that halfway through the confirm make hearings you abandoned what was telling you which was pretty good inside information. She said ill tell you, it was clear he was go to be confirmed and he would become the cia director and a very important source for me. You would go back to teaching the National War College and id probably never call you again. And i thought, this told me all i needed to know about what is wrong with the mainstream media. And when you think a whistleblowers ill pick on the Washington Post since its our hometown newspaperif you go back to the opeds of the Washington Post on all of the whistleblowers, Edward Snowden, thomas drake, Chelsea Manning, look up the critical articles that were written about them by people like richard cohn, r ryu th martin and it was always very meaningful to me that journalism, Investigative Journalism, which relies on whistleblowers, where would Investigative Journalism be think of dana priest of the Washington Post who won a Pulitzer Prize, she won a Pulitzer Prize because the wrote about the cia secret prisons. She got tom from a whistleblower, but the whistleblower is an anonymous person but yet when you read the opeds, i remember the one that it found the most offensive was ruth marcus who referred to Chelsea Manning as a crossdressing red riding hood. David ignatius, very ugly with his economies about Edward Snowden. David gregory when he ran meet the press had glen green walt on his show would and was extremely critical for him being a conduit for the information from Edward Snowden. When Diane Feinstein wrote a report about torture and abuse she was on wolf blitzers situation room and accused of having blood on her in other words revealing the information about the cia torture and abuse. So the think i would like to leave you with at this point dish do want to leave some time for questions and comments is our democracy right now is in trouble. Were in a very beleaguered state. There was an article in the New York Times about two weeks ago abouti love this word guardrail, the guardrail of democracy and how the system is working. Well, two observations. One, the system will only work if people make the system work. The system cant work on its own. And, two, i would argue the system isnt working the with a i would like it to work. Look at the intelligence committees created in 1970s because of the crimes during the vietnam era, 30 years after the cia was credited. The Senate Intelligence committee is not doing the aggressive job it should be doing. Its not bipartisan. Republican senator richard burr from North Carolina is not doing the work that an intelligence chairman needs to do. And never even have to say anything about none nunes, and the way he was used as a stooge by the white house, being brought into the white house grounds and getting sensitive documents and told to deliver these to president of the United States as if this was new information to the president of the United States. Think of the inspectors general of the various agencies, an extremely important post weakened be barack obama. Most of the eight years that obama was in office, the cia went without an Inspector General. When i think of Hillary Clinton and the email problem frankly the email problem and comeys handling of the email problem is the decisive reason why Hillary Clinton was defeated, even though there are other factors that need to be addressed but Hillary Clinton never allowed a permanent Inspector General to be in the state department the four years she was there what if there had been an Inspector General who very early on could have called attention to the fact that the idea of having your own email account and putting the server in your home is probably not the best idea in the world. The press, which i think has suddenly got its act together and certainly has been very aggressive with the reporting in the last 120 days did not do its job during the campaign, the false equivalentes, the free ride that donald trump got from the Washington Post and New York Times was really an embarrassment and most major editors around the country understand that now. What i look the court system, the federal courts have not been aggressive in matters dealing with National Security. Where they give a lot of seven bit of the benefit of the doubt to the government and the state secret privilege or making people create their own legal standing for bringing a case to a federal court. So, its important that citizens understand that these socalled guardrails have to be fortified and that there should be a certain amount of understanding of what a whistleblower is and what a whistleblower does, and going back to warn, that we have gotten from people such as James Madison and Alexander Hamilton about the importance of a free press, the importance of not trading off your liberty for security, and the importance of a Public Servant who exposes misconduct, i think these are things we have to keep in mind. So we have less than ten minutes [applause] to take questions. Thank you. [applause] yes. Is it possible that the use of whistleblowers is unique to this country because without our free press, wouldnt we be just no different than the soviet union, china or nye dictatorship . I dont think its unique to us and, frankly, there are soviet citizens and russian citizens who have taken far more risk with their lives. During the worst of the hearings, tended to look under the hood of my car before i started my engine but i didnt think my life was threatened. But in places such as russia and china, with whistleblowers take tremendous risk. In britain you had whistleblowers dealing with tony blairs dishonest iny joining us with george suburb the iraq war. What is unique about the United States i worry about the uniqueness is the court system and the Investigative Journalism when it works, see more hershel, agreeing miller from most does a good judge i notice now dont known it got through but the masthead in the Washington Post probably after trumps inauguration democracy dies in darkness. Go back and read Sinclair Lewises it can happen ear, written never 1930s. Its happening here. I think i heard you say earlier that the primary responsibility of asive civil sir van is to expose wrongdoing. Is that correct. , that. Alexander hamilton, by the way, planted that seed in my mind. Thats anxiouses my question. Should that be in the norm or is that an outcome of current times . In other words, shouldnt the primary responsibility be to do good as opposed to looking for wrongdoing . Well, i take doing good for granted. Okay. I mean, why would you do any task, whether with the got or outside the government, if you warrant harping a beneficial effect it but when you get behind the standard obligations of a Public Servant or anyone else, think truthfulness in confronting wrongdoing is important. And Alexander Hamilton i always go back to hamilton first with read the Founding Fathers he talked about impeachment in terms of the number one offense that has to be addressed is compromising the public trust, and certainly we have seen too much of that liberty was nixon, whether it was reagan and irancontra in the 1980s, whether it was bill clinton, which is controversial but still i think he did compromise the public trust and now look what were dealing with, day after day. I think theres a mic coming. Yeah. Whats the relationship between resigning in protest and. [whistle] le blowing . I think theres some relationship. Theres a relationship because by definition, when you resign in protest, you are your made yourself a whistleblower. The problem is theres so few of either v variety. Who resigns in protest any think during vietnam there were some brave Foreign Service officers. I think of my good friend, robert white, the ambassador in el salvador when the Children Women were raped and murdered and alexander haig, the secretary of state we dont want you investigating it, and bob white being the kind of person he was, did not let it good. I think of cyrus vans, the secretary of state for jimmy carter after the debacle of the iran hostage riecks who told the president im opposed to what youre doing, whether it succeeded or fails im going to resign because i think youre wrong and im not going to call attention it to until the operation takes place. Of course it was failure. How many people like that act on principle or protect morality or honor their moral compass . The sad a thing is ill throw this out as a warning, if anyone things he is going to be a whistleblower you know who you are, dent expect when you turn around the end of the day that youll have a big gathering, some platoon in back of you. Youre going to have very little supportment most people run from that kind of controversy. Thats just a fact of life. Yeah. Theres a mic right there. Okay. Thank you, mr. Goodman. Do you think that mueller is going to be able to complete do a very comprehensive investigation or is that going to be compromised . I think mueller was probably the best choice that this Current Situation could have allowed for. I think the power of the press is important because rod risenstein, who allot of us had come to respect for his work in maryland, clearly bowed to pressure in write that ridiculous memo he wrote. He was stooge. The was part of the paper trail for a firing that never should have taken place. But my warning that these investigations. One, they take very long time, particularly counterintelligence investigations. Two they dont always tell us everything that we need to know, and, three, i dont think they ever really get to the bottom of things. And now im not a conspiracy theorists but going week in kennedy assassination and the warren investigation, theres still a lot of loose ends. Look the irancontra investigation, which took six years, and i got into a lot of trouble when i testified because warren rudman, very bombastic senator from new hampshire, who was cochairman of the irancontra investigation, i blistered the work of the irancontra investigation because they didnt get to the bottom of what happened. So im hopeful that what the fbi will do now under mueller will lying some fire under the house and the senate. But remember, until the republicans start lose something seats somewhere and this test in georgia next month is very interesting i dont think theyre going to do the right thing. Theyve got their man in the white house and theyll hang on to him. Dont think great things are going to happen and theyre not going to happen in the near term. This is more of an observation than a come men addition forkerses. Im a work for the media and im a whistleblower on the media. Thanks to your inspiration, because i do believe that the term how to used, false equivalency, guilty. Think the media gave a false equivalency to the candidates in particular donald trump, especially because the beginning he was more of curiosity and he was good for ratings on television, and i think the result is that the media did not do its job, and as a member of that media, i feel very badly about that. Its very hard to just be one person in the mass media and make a difference, but when you talk about whistle blowing you realize maybe that could have happened. And enough this false equivalency has led to us a situation where we have democracy in crisis, and we have special prosecutors, and we have all 0 these situations we have never seen before. And i just wanted to commend you for using the term false equivalency because its extremely accurate in this situation in particular. Thank you. Thank you. [applause] i dont know if we have time for one more. Just while were waiting, member of the president of cbs who said that donald trump is great for business and good for the bottom line. Very interesting that Edward Snowden made sure his information did not get to the New York Times because of the poor way they handled the iraq war who distorted the news they received. And the feeling thats couldnt trust the New York Times to handle this material in a sensitive way. Two quick questions. I know theyre all flawed but which news outlet do you think is most credible in terms of reporting on this kind of intelligence information and what do you see is underlying political motivation office wikileaks . Its unclear me based on what they expose and when. In terms of reliability, only really three newspapers in the country, which is a sad reality that are reeling cover thing issues, the New York Times, in the Washington Post and the wall street journal. Greg miller of the Washington Post is very good. James rosen is outstanning and stood down the Obama Administration which was trying to put him into jail, which is an incredible violation of freedom of the press. Charlie savage from the New York Times, is excellent. I also rely havely on the new york review of books, people like david cole, was at george town, now at aclu. As for wikileaks, im torn because i think Julian Assange is such a strange character and was obsessed, like put defeat of Hillary Clinton and a definite link between the russian hacking and then the laundering of the material to get it to Julian Assange in a way he can say i didnt get this from the russians. Thats my own personal opinion. So i. A sympathetic when wikileaks was started, it was to challenge the government and i think assange has become an anarchist and his target is the United States he has no other target. So, are we we have exhausted the subject . Thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations] you just heard from Melvin Goodman on the cia. In about ten minutes live from the gaithersburg book city of, e Meredith Wadman provides a history of vaccinations. Heres a look at authors recently features on book tvs after words, the weekly Author Interview program. Dr. And editor in cheech of keising helves news reported on the current state of health care. The New York Times reporter Helene Cooper exploder the life of liberian president , ellen johnson, the first democratically elected fee enemy gov. And history gov john kashich reflecting on this 2016 president ial campaign. In the coming weeks chris hayes will look at racial inequality in the United States. Rachel snyder will report on our low and moderate income families manage money. Nebraska senator ben sass will argue that americas youth are not prepared for adulthood and this weekend on after words, Stewart Taylor will explore Sexual Assault on college campuses. They have sewn, the universes have sewn and the Obama Administration has shown, i think, resoundingly that they are incompetent at doing this, and that they are terribly biased. The incompetence is they dont know how to investigate. Dont have subpoena power. Dont do good scientific evidence. Dont dig up evidence. They train their socalled adjudicators by telling them, almost all guys who do this are guilty. If the guy is persuasive and logical when he says he is innocent thats a sign of guilt. If he is not persuasive, that is a sign of guilt. Thats it stanfords process. The question is, is there any way this system can be reformed . So that its not so guilt presuming . Theoretically there is and i hope the Trump Administration will take steps to do it. In practice i have grave doubts knowing what the campuses are like today, knowing how skewed to the left and skewed to the extreme feminist side the attitudes are. The people who make the noise, the people who leadership is afraid of, dont trust any campus in america to do a decent job of this. After words airs on booktv every saturday at 10 00 p. M. , and sunday at 9 00 p. M. Eastern. You can watch all previous after words programs on our web site. Booktv. Org. One reason i wanted to write this book is because theyre so much attention paid to the opioid emdem nick in rural middle class and upper class white community. They get a lot of attention. Almost all the attention. When the facts we can go to baltimore and East New York right now, harlem right now, and find many, many people shooting up or using pills who are not white, who are not lower middle class people. This is an epidemic that affects all income groups, ages, races, demographics and thats largely looked past in the media, the in part because its easier for reporters to most reporters are white. Im white, im a report. And im speaking from experience. Most newsrooms most reporters are white, and i think white reporters feel more comfortable going to white neighborhoods to write about white drug addicts. Thats been my experience. I think if you saw more people of color in newsrooms you would see this aspect of the epidemic represented more fairly in the press. I wanted to cover that. That aspect of it. So im going to talk about an area in baltimore called oxyalley, a place i spent a lot of time writing about the addicts there and a place where many some of the drugs and many other drugs ended up. They dahl it oxial. Looks like any other blighted street in west baltimore, sake arent road homes, discarded liquor bottles and addicts looking limesomesome bits but a closer look the run down stretch of pennsylvania avenue reveals something more troubling. For nearly every vacant opioid addicts are getting high on looted pill products, two some users, keisha and terry are in a road home, kishas sixyearold son is in the corner playing with his truck and while the women speculate about the quality of the drugs theyre about to inject. Going to be real nice, keisha situation, melt egg oxydough dont with a lighter and spoon while petty prepares the syringe. Hope theyre as good as hollywood who learned she is six weeks pregnant with her first child. She hasnt seen the babys father, he exboyfriend, tyrone, in five. Got to make the most today because i cant be fooling around with pills no more, terry says. These bis are my sendoff. Gives names that vary based on the top of drug and dosage. F16, hollywood, yellow kicks, mike ties sons, black dominoes, and red tails, all the rage in april. In early may, it was paints, blue angels and dark knights. Enough its beeons and i black ive riz. Bgf aint let us down yet, says kisha, who first began abusing pain pills this month. Prow curing the from a bgf member. There are addicts just like them. People snorting and shooting opiates from dusk until dawn who got their product from jimmers dealers before pill city came on. Jimmy masters this is i write about him as part of a crew that was be to battle with pill city over drug corners and territory within baltimore. The concentration of drug abusers on the street is among the highest in the country. Casualtothe wave of urban opioid addiction, overdose and violence ravaging the american middle cities is little noticed. Few outside of the game venture outside, viewing them as places beyond redemption, says a baltimore homicide detective who is investigating killings. You come here for one of teletrons buy drugs, sell drugs or because you just dont care anymore and dont mine dying. She says. The only other excuse is youre a homicide or narcotics detective