Franklin foer, the author of the book called the last politician inside Joe Bidens White house and struggle for americas future. it is about the first two years of the biden presidency. Tell us what prompted you to write this book. Guest its is going to sound uninspiring but my publisher asked me to write the book and have never done an insider, political account like this. Im a staff writer at the atlantic so i do political journalism it is my thing but i never invested all the time to understand presidency over an extended period of time from the inside. She presented the idea to me, her argument was the biden people are coming in, the middle of a pandemic, with the prospect of an economic collapse, and they are inheriting the government that has been in disrepair. It would be fascinating to see what happens when will the people come in to try to conquer the problems and whether there was succeed or not. I was not to somebody who thought much of a joe biden. I kind of thought he was a bit of a blowhard. What was fascinating watching everything up front that my opinions of joe biden started to shift as i observed him and we got to the 100 day mark. You get people to talk to you. Is he really of an illustration they are cautious in the beginning of and the administration they are cautious but then you get to the 100 day point and he proposes the build back better agenda and i thought this is the story now. I told my publisher is going to pass which i did not truly believe but gave me a way to extend by down my deadline and i got to the end of the first year and build back better in ruins because mention had to pull the plug manchin had pulled the plug. My publisher said go another year or so to get to the end of the second year which is in american politics the two period of the beginning of the presidency when everything happens. I give you a longwinded. Host you did but i wanted to ask you how open was the white house to you. Were they forthcoming . Were you able to get what you needed . We able to talk to the president himself . Guest it is part of the job being patient because the beginning people do not want to talk. You have to keep showing up. When the events and, you move onto the next think and if you have the opportunity to tell the story. I was able to talk to the president twice and off the record conversations with groups economists columnists the came in to meet with him and it was helpful. Host what is the idea behind the title . What does last politician mean . Guest we live in this time people are disdainful of politics and politicians. The last two president s before biden, obama and trump, campaigned as people against the system. Joe biden you cannot mistake for anything but politician since it is been his profession were so many decades. His idea about how to save america democracy is you have to prove politics, persuasion, dealmaking is still the best way to get things done. It feels like maybe we are at the end of an era. Not so many people who share his faith still. Host there are people believe bipartisanship is a weakness. Guest on both sides is a widespread perception. Host i want to show you an excerpt from your book and have you comment on it. You say this, in the story of joe biden a pattern keeps reasserting itse. After he is the mess as passes time, written off because of his doddering detachment from the zeitgeist, he pulls off his greatest successes. He shocks those who only think they know him. Guest we see this constantly. Biden underestimated by people his own side who are his friends and his enemies. We moments were his political career seems to be over. He will never run for president again. Then he actually wins. Even in the course of the story about the first two years, there is this moment at the end of the first year where i thought he was headed towards jimmy carter presidency where he was going to go down in history as a failure and then he passed all of this legislation. Host reminder to our viewers if you would like to call in and ask a question we have got this our guest until the end of the program. You can call by party affiliation. Democrats, 202 7488000. Republicans, 202 7488001. Independents, 202 7488002. You can enter and you can interact with us by text or social media. The Biden Administration starts in the middle of covid. Talk about the challenges surrounding that. Guest donald trump made these investments in operation warp speed which had invested this money into private companies to develop the vaccines. The first vaccine clinically successful was pfizers vaccine. Pfizer had not taken any operation warp speed money so i did not benefit from their relationship with the government. The biden people come in and need to find whatever the plan is to get shots in arms and they search across bureaucracy for this plan. It turns out it does not exist. On the flight they have to ramp up production of the vaccine and come up with a plan for distribution. Which is very complicated so six months later it is a miracle government that people were able to walk into the neighborhood pharmacies without an appointment and get a shot that will save their lives. Host i want to ask about immigration. Another excerpt from the book. You s a polling showed biden had every reason to feel great about his standing with e exception. He was getting terrible marks for his handling of immigti which meant the press would inevitably gravitate to the subject. The issue happened to be the acwhere he was most out of step ts olving parties that were trajectory but winning the democratic nomination required biden to commit himself to a wholesale reversal of trump immigration policy. Guest the pandemic did a lot to scramble the patterns of migration. There was a numerous pressure as biden was coming into office on order which was because for reasons that had nothing to do with the president and also this perception that the president would, new president more welcoming to migrants. You had the surge of unaccompanied minors at the border. One of the first big crises and some think where they do not handle it especially well at first because they were plans drawn up for dealing with this crisis because it was predictable but somehow they gotten loss course of transition. You had these images from centers in Border Patrol centers in texas we had children sleeping on floors. Terrible images. Biden who is centrist on the issue is forced to deal with this and deal with the fact that he was getting pressure vote from the left and from the right both from the left and from the right. Host he gave Vice President harris the task of looking at migrants coming and addressing the root causes. How did she get that assignment . What was she able to accomplish . Guest being Vice President but one of the hardest jobs in washington, because it comes with this since you are very powerful person, next in line, but it is a punchline regarding the person waiting around. One of the hardest things as being a former Vice President president and obama had given biden disarmed a building with Central America to address the migration crisis so he turns around and gives it to harris to deal with Central America. Host did she want it . Guest i think she did at first because it is not the same as dealing with actual border itself. It was not a part of her purview. Does a diplomatic assignment. It was a diplomatic assignment. Some think the president consider to be important so initially she did. Over time she came to dislike the assignment. Host it is hard to address the root causes of migration because youre looking at poverty, crime, the effects of climate change. Guest the other countries and sometimes youre looking at corrupt governments getting them to abide by policy is good for the u. S. But not necessarily beneficial to them. Host what did you find out about the relationship between biden and harris . Guest they begin in the middle of covid. It is a strange thing because normally residents and Vice President s do a lot of travel at the beginning of an administration but neither of them were traveling so they would end up going with one another to the same meetings all the time. There are certain parallels between the president and the Vice President. They share similar source of the securities. Bidens securities is going back to plagiarism scandal. He does not like to look like he does not have full command of the material he has. He does not like to look like hes being force fed information. The Vice President historic first and i think shes worried about making a mistake that could redound against people who follow in their path. They both people who over prepare for public presentations and tend to ask the same questions in meetings, whether it is because they spent this initial time with one another or not, but i will add bidens sees everything through his experience dealing with barack obama. Obama needed biden to fill holes in his resume. Biden uses this term refers to the Vice President as opposed to my Vice President which obama way of referring to biden which really wrinkled. Host want to talk Foreign Policy and we will start with russia. Hes an excerpt from that. As bidens retrospective opinion, the obama admisttion had erred by gratuitously thumbing his nose at russia. His old boss refer to the old quarter were old cold war rival as a regional power. Guest when biden comes to office, i have reporting about a call he received from Vladimir Putin out of the blue that surprises him because it is not on the schedule. He had to make a decision about how quickly to return the phone call. In his theory was that, putin was someone who would cause him trouble and the best thing he could do is to clearly telegraph what sanctions or punishments that would be for that behavior, but also he felt putin was in a secure guy who felt that russia was this great nation being disrespected so he needed to be able to show him i get that. I will treat russia with respect. His argument to his staff which is staffed with a him to wait to return the call, he said when the leader of one of the worlds Nuclear Powers call you, you have to take the call. Host how would you assess his handling of the Russia Ukraine war . Guest i think it is a very difficult job. I think he has done it exceedingly well because one year ago or a couple years ago, the world was indifferent to autocracy. He had to both rally allies who had breached fillings from the trump war and rally public, and i just u. S. , but the u. S. But theres a lot of selfsacrifice the American Public has made on behalf of the calls. Higher prices at the pump because of the russian invasion. There is the Global Economy slowed. It is an act of solidarity and im not sure we would have gotten there absent president ial leadership. Host what do you make of President Bidens handling of the economy and his poll numbers about how americans feel about it . Guest inflation is a special type of economic pain because it registers every time you go to the store, every time you fill the car up with gas, that really does stick. The first decision he made as president was about the American Rescue plan which was the stimulus and tended to save the economy at a moment where it was starting to teeter. As a promise in the Georgia Special election, he agreed there would be these checks directly delivered to each American Household under a certain economic level. Those checks had two effects. He was running the economy hot so there would be for employment because in joe bidens view work is essential for dignity and he would rather have more people in their jobs even at the price of that was the economy slightly inflationary. This is going to be a debate we will have, how much do the American Rescue plan contribute to inflation, how much was it a product pandemic supply chain shocks, russian invasion of ukraine, other structural problems. Host how much this is working class roots and form his policies . Guest i think it is at the center of his psyche so if you are a democrat of a certain age, the party has changed on you. It went from being union dominated to workingclass to having an elite that comes from Ivy League Schools and meritocracy. Biden was always an outsider with those police because of the way he talks with his stories that are always so folksy and anecdotes he tells over and over again. He felt out of step. The iv leaders would roll their eyes at ive league would roll their eyes at him and he knew so he had a chip on his shoulder he always had and i think it meant he was prepared to go in Different Directions from other people around him. Host we have a question for you on x. How much better of an economy with President Biden have a fake democrat joe manchin and monkey democrat Kyrsten Sinema had not gotten in the way of build back better . Guest i am not sure we would have a better economy but we would have this robust expansion of the safety net. It is really amazing to go back to the summer of 2021. You think about how close the country was to passing this 3. 5 trillion dollars spending package that wouldve had universal prek, subsidized daycare, eldercare that really would have, in the most significant, renovation of the american buffer states. Welfare states. Host ryan in illinois, independent. Caller good morning. , democraticsocialist. All citizens of u. S. , constitutionally must be considered innocent until Proven Guilty. A tainted jury pool is unacceptable. President john f. Kennedy everyone has the right to see all the roles and to call character witnesses and know their rights. , democraticsocialist and resident Donald Trumps views are opposite to mine yet he must be presume innocent until Proven Guilty just as i and any other citizen of the u. S. Of america. Host ok. Any comment there . Anything about the relationship or lack thereof between biden and trump . Guest theyre not interacted heartily at all. He comes into office, the first think he sees when the cousins of the oval office is a letter trump left for him. Host what is in it . Guest nobody knows. He refers to it as being surprised elite grace issues and then tucked it he refers to it as being surprisingly gracious and he takes it away. One of his primary jobs was to get the unvaccinated to accept the vaccine. Trump, when the biggest proponents of the vaccine because he set everything in motion. He consider listing trump in persuasion and pain to get the unvaccinated but they dealt with the republican pulser luntz who has done focus groups to accept the job. Ab. He relies into would backfire people realize it will backfire so they never really pursuit that. Host destiny in texas, democrat. Good morning. Caller good morning. My question is about global poverty. I love how you mentioned the economy and what biden is doing. What are your thoughts and views on global poverty and how you think help to solve the economy . Guest not global poverty as so much as american poverty. One the extraordinary things that happens in 2021 is that the childhood poverty rate was cut in half. There were all of these tax credits and subsidies that emerged from the American Rescue plan. It was one of the most unexpected developments. We do not think of this country and our politics now as being on the cusp of doing something as big as cutting childhood poverty rate in half, but we did it. I think it is a shame that we let a lot of those programs expire and allowed the childhood poverty rate to spike back up. Host melissa in lake charles, louisiana. Independent. Caller good morning. I read a few excerpts from your book online and it was interesting, but i have to admit, i am an independent voter, but i would not vote for jill biden and probably not for donald trump either but between the two i would not vote for joe biden. Im interested to know if he told you that he was afraid of appearing stupid, that is the word to use, or was that just something you gleaned from his behavior when he was hired a also, does he want the 10 from your book sales as the big guy . Guest i think there is zero evidence that jill biden has done anything corrupt. I think theres allegations of that and it is something republicans are pushing but ive not seeing anything that makes that allegation. Shes asking this question and it is a very interesting one about technique which is i made a big psychological observation about resident biden and shes asking how i came to that conclusion. It is not something he would say or tell me in fact it is a character trait so my job as a journalist who is trying to understand a president and presidency is to try to understand the mind of the president. One thing i have done is ive talked to a lot of his friends. I have gone back and ive Read Everything written about him. Based on that i start to make some sort of psychological assessment. What of the great things about biden he is the subject of wonderful classic book. Would it takes by Richard Ben Cramer which came out in 1990s about the men who ran for president in 1988 and he spent all this time with biden and i read it as a Young Journalist and it was one of the most exciting works of political journalism i always read. For me, my understanding always goes back to the great richard kramer. Host hank is next in south carolina, a republican, good morning. Caller thanks. I want to note you really believe all those stories that joe said about different things. I think most of it is just made up if not lies. Host like what . Were you talking about, specifically . Caller the one about his house fire in delaware when he was in hawaii, comparing that to people that lost everything, that lost their families, their house, everything. He just up there and compares that to a little ole kitchen fire. He is always talking about his father. Every time. Every speech he makes my dad said this, my dad said that. Listen to joe you would think his that was in there with washington, lincoln, and reagan. I get tired about listening to stories about his dad. I did not know what his that did the i never heard any other president gets up there every speech talk about what their that did. Host lets start with the fire response. Guest i would say i do not think it is that uncommon for men and women to valorize their fathers and to revered them and to talk about them in that way. But joe biden is also i like to think of him as an irish storyteller. There is a little bit of in his stories that tend to get better with time or 10 to evolve and i do not quite or tend to evolve and he someone who kinda gets lost in his stories and set every time he tells them they inflate in size which is not the same thing as saying he is a liar. It is just i think he is somebody likes a good tell. Host he asked about the maui fire response. Guest yeah, i think that was just a case of biden speaking. Host i want to ask about people out from afghanistan and your book. Even as the administration pull off this improvise feet a logistics, and oppression took hold of the moment that it was reacting slowly. What sound is th t toughest criticism emerged not from conservative media but from the calmnessndenerable reporters that by this inner circle spted and tended to heed. In the thickf the crisis, bidedinot have time to voraciously look at the news, but he was well aware of the tough coverage. We are getting killed he would admit. It is frustrated him to no end. Guest this was the toughest part of his presidency. They felt anticipate how quickly the chaos with dissent on kabul. How quickly the government would collapse. As that happens, this is the moment where criticism rains down on him from all sides. When he things i came to admire about biden was that he was responsible for the failure at kabul airport on some level. But he never backed down from the decision to leave from afghanistan. He never cast the blame in other directions. There were people praying for him to make some sort of sacrificial offering to fire and aid, to cast the blame on the intelligence agencies, and he never did that. Host franklin in washington dc, independent. Good morning. Caller thank you for taking my call. I am interested in the book. Ive never heard of it. I will check it out. I wonder if you have thoughts to the idea the last politician and his approach to politics. How he carries themselves and conducts himself but the rest of the country has moved against that. I imagine it is the point of your book. I wonder if you have thoughts about he is going to whether this Upcoming Campaign in that dichotomy. Having to run against personal tax, things are always a part politics were getting more unhinged and more personal, the things about his son. I would not weigh in on hunter biden but theyll talk about his age, they will make them sound unfit. It is always been a part of politics but in your observations and your coverage, is joe biden equipped to answer those attacks . Political strategy for that . In 20 Campaign Things were different when running against a psychopath. Wanting to impeach. We had covid. Joe biden was the emergent winner of the primary. Theyre going to have this to hammer on these things that seem outside of traditional politics. How do you think he will handle that . Guest all right. Thank you for checking out my book. I wanted to go to each part sen. Lee . On the question of the last politician, he is a very psychological guy. Everyone talks about his up at the end what you can see when hes deals with Kevin Mccarthy or Susan Collins or foreign leaders whether it is Vladimir Putin, with his good at doing is extending the empathy to the people he is sitting across so he can think about their psychological makeup. What are their political self interests. What are their emotional baggage do they bring to this conversation. There was an incident with the turkish president where he goes to him and he says i know you got to go out there and announce me right now. Go out there and do whatever you want to do, say whatever you want to say but come back here and lets cut a deal. I think the same happened with Kevin Mccarthy during the debt ceiling negotiations where you got mccarthy the guy who was still out of the white house to talk to the press want to look like he was owning the process because he knew mccarthy needed that, but when they got into the room, he was able to eat his lunch on the substance of negotiations. Host kathy in florida, democrat. Good morning. Caller good morning. This is kathy from the stupid state. We do not appreciate joe biden. This man has done a lot more for us than anybody has for a number of years. I was leaning independent for a while. I am back being a democrat. The things we have been putting up with, the donald trump. He practically dismantled the government. Joe biden trying to put it together with bandaids. No one gives them credit for it. Everything is his fault. Everything is about his son. All we know about donald trump. Come on. How many indictments in up to now . 40 . It is unbelievable people still buy this. I think there is very small group of the maga that do still believe him but nobody to replace him and they know it. They cannot get that anger and miscible this they have out there that he provides. That is what they go for. I am 72. I will tell you its got me baffled. 11 months a bunch of old people and believe me i live amongst a bunch of old people and believe me i wish people would give joe biden credit. Stop being so nasty. It is so misplace. This guy is off to the g20 summit. His wife is sick. If anything you know, he loves his wife. Guest he also loves Foreign Policy. I think there is part of the biden presidency that is underappreciated which is as a matter of substance, i think you could argue he has been transformational. For generations, democratic parties president s were essentially in sync with republicans about the nature of economics they were differential to markets, kind of indifferent to the purpose of monopoly, not warm to unions. Biden has gone in another direction where because of the ira, where do industrial policy in this country where we are making significant Public Investment in manufacturing. We have maintained and betrayed policies that donald trump put in place we have maintained the trade policies donald trump put in place. Investments into the Semi Conductor industry into the Clean Energy Industry and we are seeing the most profound, unexpected Capital Investments in manufacturing we have seen in several generations. Host why do you think his popularity does not reflect, all the things youre saying are his successes . Guest i think part of it is age. Because of the way he walks, the way he talks, it is hard for people to accept the idea he is an energetic politician. I think he has walt himself off in ways not terribly useful. When joe biden talks, there is always the possibility of a headline rather than accept that as cost of doing business, he does not appear as at many press conferences. I think the public does not have this window into his mind or his thinking. Then inflation which is just this type of thing host what will happen during the campaigning of the election . The last election was during covid and he was isolating and did not do a lot of public appearances but campaigning is grilling. Even for very young people. Guest i think i share your curiosity about how that will play out because he has to do it. Therell be debates. There will be rallies. Iglesias writes a column on sub stack said something the other day on twitter. That part of the critique of joe biden is that he is just not a Good Television character and i think there is profound truth to that. In fact, i think if people can see him up close, they would see he is this very human fellow who makes mistakes with you talks, but also has a worldview and has this grasp of the material and a distance of how things fit together a sense of how things fit together. On one side he does not have energy to go out and campaign as he did 20 years ago, on the others, i think there is wisdom that comes with experiencing, the best part of joe biden you can see the way in which that wisdom translates into political practice. Host tony in marin ohio. Republican. Caller i wanted to ask a question. I heard some of the comments. It is not joe bidens age, this competency. Yes, they are hiding him. I do not understand how anybody can think he can run a foreign national. We just had 13 Service Members and i listen to the parents talk. Well talk about empathy. Looking at his watch. The parents talk. Theyre not political. It was disgusting. 20 minutes from here this boy was killed. Empathy, i do not think so. Only think he knows us to give money to people, our money, college tuition. I did not go to college. If i want to go to college and not have any money, i guess there are things i can do. I can join the service. Want to join the service anymore . I cannot believe what is running the service. What policies he has. Ukraine, giving money because i think they have dirt on joe biden. China flying a balloon around anywhere doing nothing. He is a disgrace to us. I will vote for donald trump. They want, anyone can say anything they want. Until they prove anything, there is joe bidens with documents. Host there is a lot there. Guest as it relates to Foreign Policy, he has shifted the frame that he is the find everything as a struggle for global democracy against authoritarianism. Strategically the goal is to reorient thanks to the challenge of china reorient to the challenge of china. His goal of getting out of afghanistan was to take away this think can cite resources away from china, it was fighting the last war and to focus on this next thing. Then russia invades ukraine. It is not totally unexpected. We had incredible intelligence about what russians were planning and we began to plan for that as early as october 2021. In the end, his Foreign Policy, if you step back is really about this shift of attention. It is a difficult thing to pull off. He wants to put pressure on china to contain china, to reduce economic dependence on china, at the same time, we do not want their relationship with china to become adversarial that the military heats up. We are worried about china invading taiwan. The skillful think he is done in is turned up the heat without letting it get too hot. Host lets talk to an independent in colorado. Ray, good morning. Caller good morning. Thank you for taking my call. I hope you are having a good morning. Im an affiliate with the libertarian party. When it comes it immigration, i would open the border tomorrow. That aside, mayorkas has been in front of house and Senate Committees many times over the years. Whenever someone has asked him for any statistics he goes to his bullet point response boilerplate point response, i did not have numbers in front of me. Your three of the Biden Administration and hes about to finish up his his full second fiscal year. How do you think this lack of preparedness with mayorkas will reflect on the presidency . Guest i do not actually know i do not know what he is talking about. My lack of expertise on the subject. Host juanita in ohio, cincinnati. Good morning. Democrat. Caller good morning. Im going to buy your book. Guest thank you so much. Caller i wanted to make a comment about the young lady who said something earlier in the broadcast about mr. Biden sounding her looking stupid. I am 72 and i will tell you what mr. Trump did that was stupid. Underestimated the power of africanamerican women. Made two mistakes. When he called miss amoroso a dog. We took note. The second time was during the dispute of the younger man taking the knee. He called the boys who did that sobs. We are the ones who put the fire under the Democratic Party to get biden elected and will do it again because the Republican Party and overlook. When he said that about miss amoroso, Republican Party and the whites out there and the lady from ohio, they have no idea of the ripples it cost. Yall have a good day. Guest as it relates to the president s relationship to black women, i would say one of the most found parts of his legacy will be the appointment of Ketanji Brown jackson which i go into the detail of the stories of how she got paid. The politics of it where complicated because the president s relation ship with joe manchin was broken at that point. Manchin had another favorite candidate but in the end biden was able to work with with republicans to make sure he had the votes to get Ketanji Brown jackson confirmed to the Supreme Court. I think her initial decisions have reflected a justice who is able to distant dissent in a powerful way. Host john in illinois, republican. Good morning. Caller good morning. Im glad you wrote this book on the biden. Guest thank you. Caller i think you expose a little bit of what we are all seeing. You said earlier he does not like he is not doing his usual press conferences or take questions with the public. We do not really know. Because of that we do not really know about joe biden and how he feels about things. But i can tell you we do know about joe biden. We conceive ourselves with hes become can you see for ourselves what he has become physically, mentally. I think hes protected so the country does not see how weak he is. Im interested. You said i think you said, im curious why are you not curious have you watched what mr. Comer had brought to the public . I know if he did not watch any fox, you probably do not know that, but this suspicious activity reports, the offshore accounts. 10 for joe biden. For the big guy. Im curious. Why you are not curious about that . Guest have watched the comer hearings nesting conjecture but i have not seen the hard evidence there. That would be my answer. It is one of the interesting things about away a book like this on unrolls. There is strange bipartisan fascinations in my book that fox has done a lot despite my book, New York Post to cite the book, i think because it is the first book about these two years that there is this curiosity about how it all happens. People who read a book like this find evidence to confirm whatever their beliefs are to begin with, which is inevitable. That is the way the mind works. That is the way we consume information. I do not think theres anything wrong with it, but it is a gratifying think to see the ways the reporting gets picked over and analyzed by people on both sides. Host david, myrtle beach, south carolina. Independent. Good morning. Caller good morning. I am an independent so i hold both parties with equal disdain. I think people make the mistake of wanting to make this about personalities but i want to go back to Democratic Base before the election and i think we need to realize the Democratic Party platform has been completed. They promise open borders. We have 6 million illegal people here on welfare with benefits. The consequences we have these people overwhelming the cities in the schools. Joe promised to be the most progressive which i think he is completed because now we have a Supreme Court judge who cannot define the difference between men and women. We have men playing in will miss ports. They promise to eliminate fossil fuels which they have done. They stop drooling and pipelines and now we see we depleted our Petroleum Reserves and gas prices are alltime high create reimagine the police. When crime is rampant everywhere. My issue is that the world is a dangerous place. We are people declared war on us and we are spending our time worried about defending what the definitions of eight men and a woman is. We are vulnerable. We have spy balloons flying over the country and republicans and democrats talk about things, but no one ever does anything. I think there is a world focus completely on destroying our country. I think they are doing a good job of it. Guest i just hate to hear someone talk about the world because that evokes historically terrible images, host dylan in clarkston, washington. Democrat, good morning. Caller good morning. I am 30. I have been voting democrat since i can vote. I usually vote blue. But 2016 and 2020 i voted for sanders in primary. I think most people my age follow that logic. If you want my honest opinion, i am more of a socialist who thinks working should own music production, but i understand that is a own the means of production but i understand it is a longshot cycle with what is pragmatic. When of the biggest issues i see with my credit party Democratic Party is it is about 2016. Democrats think they have this in the bag. Intellectuals about things they did not resonate with working people in the country. You can talk about Inflation Numbers all day. It is true. Biden has flown inflation down. That is not translate into anything real in the minds of people who live on the ground. As long as working people in the country are not seeing the benefits of these things, no one is ever going to associate anything with that. I think democrats should let the republicans go because listen to every republican voter on here, they are nuts. Host lets get a response. Guest theres a lot to what he just said. About the fact that people do not see the benefits do not understand benefits of bidenomics policies. Even in terms of the contrast he just describing between the two parties has been biden chatterjee in by this strategy in 2020 two and i suspect the strategy into 22024 that it is a referendum on his presidency so much as a test between him and trumpism. Host kimberly republican in arizona. Hello. Caller if your book was free, i would not take it. What planet are you on . Joe biden has done nothing for this country but destroy it. It is unbelievable. The difference between trump and biden. Biden has been a politician for years and years. He has done nothing but make this country the worse it is ever been. What are you not seeing . What is he . Do, joe biden, to see he is which is totally corrupt. My family worked for the oil in pennsylvania. I live in arizona. Im a border state. It is frightening over here. I cannot go down to tucson because it is discussing with the illegal immigrants. Mayorkas says during hearings it is insane considering the position you are holding. The lies right out of his mouth in congress. Guest i know there are millions of people operated at the border. We do not millions of people apprehended at the border. We do not have open borders. We are overwhelmed. Our asylum policies are broken and there is a need to reform them but it is not what is happening now is legal. It is the system. You cannot unilaterally declare our immigration system, immigration laws should be suspended because we live in democracy and are certain procedures. Host grace in denver, colorado. Independent. Good morning. Caller good morning. Host go ahead. Caller my question is kinda about i know you talked on the Russia Ukraine conflict. I was wondering what you think about bidens approach to alleviating poverty and for the security in ukraine as a result of the war. Guest we are getting tremendous amount of aid to ukrainians, military aid and humanitarian assistance to ukrainians. The sheer amount of money that is flowed to ukraine is pretty incredible, whether you agree with it or you do not agree with it. Not very many antecedents in history that show u. S. Acting in this way, outside of world war. Host jim in west virginia. Democrat. Hi. Caller good morning. I want to offer commentary. With what other people are saying. And it feels to me and probably too many people like there is no respect for decent humane leadership anymore. I feel as if republicans have had their minds poisoned against descent, humane leadership. For the time trump was introduced to us as a candidate, it is like he launched into this overhaul of american mindset and it is not a nice overhaul. It is not pleasant or decent. You talk about any topic, immigration, what republican solution . Build this massive wall with an iron curtain like the Old Soviet Union or north korea or something . The guests just said earlier we are democracy, a free country, not to mention millions of people come here and work. Those people help keep us alive during the pandemic which is seems like republicans cannot get their brains it was a real think. Over one Million People died over a couple years. America was pretty much in flamed inflamed and agitated with terms rhetoric and narratives all that aside, 91 indictments against their golden hero. You have to look at things realistically. It feels as if republicans listen to fox news and oan. Right wing ugly narrative. Guest i do not have anything to add there. Host i want to ask you about abortion and the Dobbs Decision and President Bidens reaction. Guest i find one of the more interesting things and probably flies in the face of some of the callers preconceptions about President Biden. Biden is someone devoutly catholic. He grew up in scranton and has all this nostalgia for the church of his childhood. He writes where there is nuns, there is home. The abortion issue has always been hard for him because he is torn. I think a lot of democratic catholics arent one of the issue and i think it is hard for them to hear from the leaders of their church they are bad catholics because of their political decision so in the runup to Dobbs Decision, he was a little bit torn about the right response should be. When the Dobbs Decision comes down, overturning roe v. Wade, his administration is very flatfooted in response. He gives a speech that gets panned. People on the left accuse him of not doing enough, not showing enough outrage. Weeks go by before he starts sending, signing executive orders. What changed his mind, this case about a 10yearold girl from ohio who had to go to indianapolis to get an abortion. The force of the law came down on her and that was the thing that changed his mind on the issue and make him appreciate the radicalism of the Dobbs Decision. Host franklin foer, the author of the book the last politician inside Joe Bidens White house and struggle for americas future. to introduce our panel and ill turn it over to a former presenter at the festival, the author of america has great storm leading through hurricane and the 63rd governor of the state, mississippi. The honorable haley barbour