That density is contained in a relatively small area. The seventh district is on the east side of the pink area, and it includes lakewood, aurora and the changing not per september tibble on the map but the people represent thread were previously in district two. Democratic congressmen Ed Perlmutter has held the seat for six years and is a lifelong resident of Jefferson County and an attorney. This year, business man joe coors is the republican challenger. He retired of coors tech. Every race this year its about the economy. Lets talk first about the fiscal cliff, a combination of tax hikes and huge across the board spending cuts which will take effect in january unless some kind of compromise is reached. The Tax Implications are stark. A family with indianapolis the 110 to 140,000 range will see an increase in their tax bill of about 6,000. Mr. Kouz, even if you would win you would not be in place before any deals that might be made by the end of the year, but if you will, please, talk about the specific compromises you would be willing to make and youd like to see made to avoid the fiscal cliff. Thank you, sin thea. First to start off with, as i walk around the district and talk to Small Businesses, theyre absolutely scared to death of whats going to happen on jap 1st january 1st if something isnt done. If the kurt rates are ahowed to expire, one million Small Business owners will be faced with an incredible tax increase. And its statemented by ernst and young and by the National Federation of independent businesses, that up to 700,000 to a million and a half jobs would be lost as a result of this, because who is going to pay for the extra taxes that fall upon the one million voters. One million owners. So my idea of a compromise would be to extend the current tax rates. Nobody gets hurt in a deal like that. And everybody wins. To me its a winwin deal, and id be willing to compromise back to five years, if that would be necessary, and i think, even given five years, that Congress Might be able to do something. Part of the robe congress put this in place, this cliff, was to because there is certainly feeling the bush tax cuts should not be continued. You are going to be involved in the fray on this, congressman. What do you see . Is it possible to leave things just as they are . I think we got to understand how we got here, and so at the end of the clinton administration, we had a surplus, revenues exceeded expenses. And then under george bush we had two major tax cuts. That cost the country 2 trillion. We had two wars that we didnt pay for. Theyre on a credit card. Thats a couple trillion dollars and then a deregulated wall street that ran amok and has cost the country, but three and a half trillion dollars. So half of the nations debt comes from those three things. It doesnt come from nih grants or education, doesnt come from transportation, and it doesnt come from pbs or big bird and sesame street. But what we face is a major debt that we have to figure out how to pay. And im part of a bipartisan group, democrats democrats and republicans, had have come up with a simpsonbowles legislation, that says for businesses and families and in the nation you have to have revenue and expense. So you need to have revenue and manage expenses in this particular instance, so that we can in a businesslike way, over a tenyear period, reduce the nations debt, and so i believe, and i hope that after this election, there will be in the lame duck period a bipartisan group, both in the senate and the house, that will get together and come up with Something Like simpsonbowles, which doesnt take us off a fiscal cliff on january 1st january 1st but provides us with a bipartisan tenyear Business Plan that reduces the nations deficit by 4 trillion. I think that group youre referring to that youre part of now is 38 people. It would have to grow. Yeah. Were called the brave 38, by u. S. A. Today, and the post we have to do this in a bipartisan fashion. If we dent Work Together, democrats and republicans, woe went get to this done. And theres a lot at stake and you mentioned nat your opening. The simpsonbowles commission was the commission on the deficit which had ban ban people running it and bipartisan support but never came before the congress. Are you in fav of simpsonbowles, the thing is it calls for to settle this problem . No. None of it . Theres some things. I would like to point out that simple sole bowls was not adopted by even the float United States, was not deposit by the senate, and they brave 38 were left holding the bag. The biggest reason im not in favor of simpsonbowles is because it embraces obamacare. I think obamacare is a horrible disaster financially to this country. Id like to respond. I think one of the the main reason that joe doesnt embrace simpsonbowles is because it recognizes we need additional revenue in this country, not just cutting different programs, whether its big bird and sesame street or some transportation projects or those kinds of things. You have to have both sides of the ledger. You have to look at both things. The revenue and the expense. If we want to make a dent in our debt. And its just Wishful Thinking on his part to say, lets just keep these tax cuts that generally benefit the wealthiest people in the country, without and just keep those going forever and let just start cutting things. Thats not we need the services that we have, whether its fire grants or education, building schools, transportation, those kindses of things improve think we need a businesslike plan that takes us out ten years that really takes us away from the fiscal cliff and does this in a moderated sort of way, where nothing is sacred. Everything is on the table. Both on the revenue side as well as the expense side. Is there a formula in your mind for much three dollars in spending cuts and one dollar in revenue, Something Like that, that will put is on the right path . Well, for me, its, lets see how the deals develop, but i think its probably i think simpsonbowles was, for every dollar in revenue, it was two and a half to three dollars in expense cuts. And looking at all kinds of things from defense to health care to interior department. So everything is on the table. I think thats how we have to look at this. Even though most of those things didnt create this major debt that the country has incurred over the last ten years, we are where we are and just have to get busy and get on it. Do you disagree about the fact that more revenue is going to be necessary to straighten this out . The source of the revenue. The United States is the strongest economic power in the world because of Small Business and the backbone of this country is Small Business, operating in a Free Enterprise environment if we can get the government out of the way. Put certainty back in the taxes, well accomplish that hasnt been accomplished for the last four years that gives the Small Business sector of the United States, from growing ahead ammunition to really ignite this countrys economy. Why do you think Small Business has not performed in terms of job creation for the past four years . Is it strictly the recession . Well, yeah. We had a major recession, something we hadnt faced since the 30s. And so those companies are beginning to grow now. Beginning to see unemployment drop today. We heard recently we heard that unemployment has dropped to 7. 8 , and so we are making inroads and Small Businesseses are starting up see. In colorado construction is up. Home prices are coming back up. So were on the right track and Small Businesses will start forming and continue to form and will really put a lot of people back to work, and thats my goal, too. I think we both share that same bowl, but at the same time, we need we dont want to go off this fiscal cliff, and we need to have a reasonable Business Plan that understands that its both revenue and expense. You cant just cut your way out of this situation. Since you brought up obamacare, last week in the first president ial debate, mitt romney talked about obamacare as well. There are certainly plenty of parts of it that he seems to embrace. Is it necessary to repeal the whole thing . Dont you lose a lot you have to put back in place . Ill start with obamacare in its entirety. Its going to add 1. 7 trillion to the cost of government over the next ten years. It creates 158 new agencies and programs. Creates independent Advisory Board which is going tell wharf they can do and what kind of services they can get and those things are wrong. Now, the part i would extend my whole platform would be i call it tip. We need tort reform because malpractice insurance is some of the biggest costses for private practice, Health Care Private practice. We need to interstate competition. We need portability. You got be able to take one plan with you. And we need to protect the preexisting conditions. Congressman, let me ask you to react. The two points he just brought up are already in obamacare. Theres a Pilot Project on tort reform. The opportunity to take things across interstate lines, but really, the purpose and the main reason i support the Affordable Care act, or obamacare, is i it does away with discrimination of people who have prior illnesses or prior Health Conditions from injuries or the like, and thats huge so that insurance an Insurance Company cant deny you because you have been sick before. And thats a huge step forward in terms of civil rights for this country. Seldly, secondly, it allows young people to stay on their parents policy since 26 and thats important for lots and lots of families. A couple million families. It helps close the doughnut hole that george bush created in his medicare approach. So it helps close that doughnut hole. And one of the most important things is it expand Womens Health choices. And so i think id like to see obamacare maintained. There are always ways to refine and improve anything. Can you give me one example . Whats something you would change or refine . One of the things we already worked on there was a Additional Charge to Small Businesses over 600, and we modified that early on so that the whole bill would be improved. I think the we want to take a look at some of the delivery services, because what this is all about is the cost of health care generally. And so a part of what we want to do is make sure that administrative costs are reasonable across the board and we want to continue to do that through the Affordable Care act. Can i add one more thing . Sure. That is that the obamacare takes 716 billion out of medicare, puts it into obamacare, leaving seniors with less than theyve been promised, and we need to protect a figure everyone knows is out there. We need to set the record straight on that one. The 716 billion of savings is over a tenyear period, and that savings is placed back into the medicare system so that the medicare system is prolonged. And so there arent any benefits cut. Theres nothing like that. And so when joe says that, its just in error. I know we could go on and on with that in terms of what president obama and mitt romney have said about it as well. Let me switch to something that we arent seeing talked about everywhere in congressional races and that is gun violence. Our own experience in july with the aurora theater shootings, and then several subsequent Mass Shootings in wisconsin and minnesota and elsewhere. There really is a cry out there on the part of some people saying, congress should do more than offer condolences. It should be making some actual changes in how and what people can access in this country. What is it that you would get behind in that way . Well, july 20th was a very sad day for our country and certainly for our city, and the metropolitan area. Aurora will never be the same after that mass killing, and ive had a chance to meet with the families of some of the some of those who were killed. Ive met with others who have been wounded. I met with the medical teams and law enforcement. For me this is very personal issue, and so on one side of the district you have columbine, where you had a terrible tragedy 13 or so years ago, and then a couple months ago, three months ago in aurora. So, for me, the subject of crowd control, public health, coming from these Mass Shootings, is something that we just have to deal with, and the most commonsense approaches that can be taken to avoid some of these mass killings, and banning assault weapons . Well, you look at the old assault weapons act that expired a couple years ago. That needs to be reviewed. Two, that im part of now, one is to require so right now if you want to buy a firearm, you have to buy it from a licensed firearm dealer, facetoface, but you can buy ammunition over the internet or through mail order. So one bill im cosponsoring requires you have to buy ammunition from a licensed firearm dealer. You have to do it facetoface. And another is the weapons this guy holmes had, had extend magazines, 100 round drum on his assault rifle. Extended magazines on hand guns, and so another bill is to reduce and not have these extended magazines because it allows it to become like a submachine gun, and rammedly get off lots of rounds of ammunition. So somebody who wants to defend their person or wants to hunt doesnt need these 100 round magazines. And so that is exactly what i was about to say to you, that certainly in these mass shooting cases they may be individual cases but without the kind of ammunition and certain weapons that were available, they might not have happened. You support, if i understand correctly, no changes . No changes. We need to enforce the laws already on the books better. I go back to i cant imagine the grief of the people, all the people affect by this incredible, heinous act by a mad man. I also believe that you cant do anything to ban enough to create enough laws to keep criminals from getting the weapons to carry out these heinous deeds. Does it make sense to not be able to purchase something online without a facetofairs contact . Could you get hip that . That you have to buy your weapon and ammunitions from a licensed dealer . I support what the governor said. There are not enough laws to keep people from doing things they do. If they want to get them illegally, they will get them illegally. Joe mentioned the Mental Health aspects and thats something i think we need to continue to investigate to make sure that people who do have weapons, really are of sound mind, and so i think thats a place where there would be some common ground. Is that part of certainly are looking at different kinds of Mental Health approaches to who has weapons and the like. So, make sure that if somebody has Mental Health insures, that information is available to dealers so why know who is buying weapons or ammunition from them. I want to get a comment from each of you on the ad youre running, and each of you have called the others ad dishonest or baseless. Im going to start with you, mr. Coors, could you quickly describe the ad you have which tries to connect congressman perlmutter to solyndra . Well, solyndra, as you know, has been a horrible example of government picking winners and losers at the expense of taxpayers. But well start at the beginning. Congressman perlmutter, did go to washington, dc. This thenwife was a lobbiest for solyndra who got paid 145,000. But at that time she was no longer married to congressman perlmatter. Congressman made a clear promise he would not allow his wife, or to allow either his office or the u. S. House of representatives, and within three months that promise was broken. Will you give us your reaction to that criticism . Yes, i will. Do you have one that came in the newspaper . Right. What i have here is the editorial response by the denver post to joes ads. And its a shame our families have known each other for a long time, but this ad was over the top in the denver post describes it as despicable, deceitful, and desperate. And its a shame that theyre running that ad, and as the post said, he should be embarrassed. The coors campaign is attacking the one youre running in which you imply there was outsourcing of jobs from coorss and theres a korean man who is a star in the ad who is actually a longtime employee here in district seven. What are you trying to accomplish there . Well, what occurred is coors tech outshoressed jobs to korea, to south korea, and also to mexico, and i believe we want to be making things here in americanot outsourcing jobs. We want to employ folks here in our country and not elsewhere, and so the picture is one that came from the coors tech web site about their facility in south korea, and there has been i know that joe has complained about it, but just from their own investor statements, our facility in korea, quote, allows us to manufacture lowcost product in asia for our u. S. Customers and in order to enhance profits the company is transferring certain labor intensative, high volume component manufacturing to sore sew know a, mexico, and finallily his brother said were pleased with our record third quarter, were benefiting from the outsourcing trend. So these are statements being made to his investors, and i believe if we make things here in america, we should be encouraging things like the production tax credit, the wind, Energy Production tax credit, which then brings manufacturers to america and to our area. Short answer. Tell me why you object to these statements that are made . There . Congressman doesnt understand what it takes to run a business globally. I can sit here and tell you facetoface that absolutely no jobs were lost in america because of our decision to open up an operation in south korea in order to serve the markets in asia. In International Global business you have to be there sometimes at the request of the customers in order to serve those customers. About but absolutely no jobs were lost as a result of this decision to expand in south korea. I wish we could go on but we have come the time when i want to give each of you a chance to wrap this up with a statement as you would like to make. Congressman, will you begin . Yes. Ive now served in this position for six years, and ive grown up in Jefferson County, this denver area, and what you learn is if you listen, youre accessible and you Work Together with others, whether theyre democrats or republicans. You can get a lot of things done. Whether its the getting the new v. A. Hospital under construction, or helping expand the National Renewable energy law so that it can continue its mission of finding new ways to power our nation. You can get a lot of things done. And im proud that the denver post has called me the most bipartisan, most centrist member of the colorado delegation, and i think that i can continue to get things done so that the people of the seventh congressional district. My name is ed perlmatter, im running for reelection and i ask for your vote. Mr. Coors. Im honored to take on this assignment, and ive gotten an awful lot of support. I am take exception to his his most everything he did was rubber stamp for president obama or nancy pelosi. I tend to be a problem solvers. Im a proven job creator. I can bring some hope to 23 Million People in this country who are either underemployed or out of work. Thank you very mump, both of you. Thats Colorado State of mind for this week. We thank the candidates for their discussion tonight. Congressman, ed perlmatter, the democrat, and joe coarse, the republican. There are two more choices, doug campbell, and buck bailey. There will be an Online Library of conversations by going to rmpbs. Org pan ram ha and then look for the colorado Colorado State of mind congressional page. And theres 50,000 in total prizes available. Cspans student cam video competition is open to students grades 612. For complete details and rules, go online to studentcam. Org. Were live at the last 2012 president ial debate between president obama and mitt romney held at Lynn University in boca raton, florida. This debate will focus on Foreign Policy. The moderator is Bob Schieffer of cbs news. He just finished giving instructions to the audience asking them to be quiet during the debate. Waiting for him to introduce the candidates and ask the first question. [background sounds] [background sounds] [background sounds] [background sounds] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] and good evening, we are live at Lynn University in boca raton, florida, the debate will start [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] moderator good evening from the campus of Lynn University here in boca raton, florida. This is the fourth and last debate of the 2012 campaign brought to you by the commission on president ial debates. This ones on Foreign Policy, im Bob Schieffer of cbs news. The questions are mine, and i have not shared them with the candidates or their aides. The audience has taken a vow of silence, no applause, no reaction of any kind except right now when we welcome president barack obama and governor mitt romney [cheers and applause] [cheers and applause] moderator gentlemen, your campaigns have agreed to certain rules, and they are simple. Theyve asked me to divide the evening into segments, ill pose a question at the beginning of each segment. You will each have two minutes to respond, and then we will have a general discussion until we move to the next segment. Tonights debate, as both of you know, comes on the 50th anniversary of the night that president kennedy told the world that the soviet union had installed Nuclear Missiles in cuba, perhaps the closest weve ever come to nuclear war. And it is a sobering reminder that every president faces at some point an unexpected threat to our National Security from abroad. So lets begin. The first segment is the challenge of a changing middle east and the new face of terrorism. Im going to put this into two segments, so youll have two topic questions within this one segment on the subject. The first question, and it concerns libya, the controversy over what happened there continues. Four americans are dead including an american ambassador. Questions remain; what happened, what caused it, was it spontaneous, was it an intelligence failure, was it a policy failure, was there an attempt to mislead people about what really happened . Governor romney, you said this was an example of an american policy in the middle east that is unraveling before our very eyes. Id like to hear each of you give your thoughts on that. Governor romney, you won the toss, you go first. Romney thank you, bob, and thank you for agreeing to moderate this debate this evening. Thank you to Lynn University for welcoming us here and, mr. President , its good to be with you again. We were together at a humorous event a little earlier, and can its nice to maybe be funny this time not on purpose. Well see what happens. This is, obviously, an area of great concern to the entire world and to america in particular, which is to see a complete change in the structure and the environment in the middle east. With the arab spring, came a great deal of hope that there would be a change towards more moderation, an opportunity for greater participation on the part of women in public life and in Economic Life in the middle east. But instead weve seen in nation after nation a number of disturbing events. Of course, we see in syria 30,000 civilians having been killed by the military there, we see in libya an attack apparently by i think we know now by terrorists of some kind against our people there. Four people there. Our hearts and minds go to them. Mali has been taken over by alqaedatype individuals. We have in egypt a Muslim Brotherhood president , so were seeing a pretty dramatic reversal in the hopes we had for that region. The greatest threat of all is iran four years closer to a Nuclear Weapon. And we have to recognize that we have to do as the president s done. I congratulate him on taking out Osama Bin Laden and going after the leadership in alqaeda. But we cant kill our way out of this mess. Were going to have to put in place a comprehensive and robust strategy to help the world of islam and other parts of the world reject this radical, violent extremism which is certainly not on the run, its not hiding. This is a group that is now involved in 10 or 12 countries, and it presents an enormous threat to our friends, to the world, to america long term, and we must have a comprehensive strategy to help reject this kind of extreme em. Extremism. Moderator mr. President . Obama well, my first job as commander in chief is to keep the American People safe. And thats what weve done over the last four years. We ended the war in iraq, refocused our attention on those who actually killed us on 9 11. And as a consequence, alqaedas core leadership has been decimated. In addition, were now able to transition out of afghanistan in a responsible way, making sure that afghans take responsible for their own security. And that allows us also to rebuild alliances and make friends around the world to combat future threats. Now, with respect to libya, as i indicated in the last debate when we received that phone call, i immediately made sure that, number one, we did everything we could to secure those americans who were still in harms way. Number two, that we would investigate exactly what happened, and number three, most importantly, that we would go after those who killed americans, and we would bring them to justice. And thats exactly what were going to do. But i think its important to step back and think about what happened in libya. Keep in mind that i and americans took leadership in organizing an International Coalition that made sure that we were able to without putting troops on the ground, the cost of less than what we spent in less than two weeks in the iraq liberate a country that had been under the yoke of dictatorship for 40 years. And as a consequence despite this tragedy, you had tens of thousands of libyans after the events in benghazi marching and saying americas our friend. We stand with them. Now, that represents the opportunity we have to take advantage of. And, you know, governor romney, im glad that you agree that we have been successful in going after alqaeda. But i have to tell you that, you know, your strategy previously has been one that has been all over the map and is not designed to keep americans safe or to build on the opportunities that exist in the middle east. Romney well, my strategys pretty straightforward which is to go after the bad guys, to make sure we do our very best to interrupt them, to kill them, to take them out of the picture. But my strategy is broader than that. Thats important, of course. But the key that were going to have to pursue is a pathway to get the muslim world to be able to reject extremism on its own. We dont want another iraq, we dont want another afghanistan. Thats not the right course for us. The right course is to make sure we go after people who are the leaders or these various antiamerican groups and these jihadists, but also help the muslim world, and how do we do that . A group of arab scholars came together organized by the u. N. To look at how we can help the world reject these terrorists, and the answer they came up with was this one more economic development. We should key our foreign aid, our direct Foreign Investment and that of our friends, we should coordinate it to make sure we push back andtive them more economic development. Number two, better education. Number three, gender equality. Number four, the rule of law. We have to help these nations create civil societies. But whats been happening over the last couple of years as weve watched this tumult in the middle east, this rising tide of chaos occur, you see alqaeda rushing in, you see other jihadist groups rushing in. And theyre throughout many nations in the middle east. Its wonderful that libya seems to be making some progress despite this terrible tragedy. But next door, of course, we have egypt, libyas six million population, egypt 80 million population. We want to make sure that were seeing progress throughout the middle east with mali now having north mali taken over by alqaeda, with syria having assad continuing to kill, murder his own people. This is a region in tumult and, of course, iran on the path to a Nuclear Weapon. Weve got moderator well get to that, but lets give the president a chance. Obama governor romney, im glad you recognize alqaedas a threat because a few months ago you said russia was the biggest geopolitical threat. And the 1980s are now calling to ask for their Foreign Policy back because, you know, the cold wars been over for 20 years. But, governor, when it comes to our Foreign Policy, you seem to want to import the foreign policies of the 1980s just like the social policies of the 1950s and the economic policies of the 1920s. You say that youre not interested in duplicating what happened in iraq, but just a few weeks ago you said you think we should have more troops in iraq right now. And the challenge we have i know you havent been in a position to actually execute Foreign Policy, but every time youve offered an opinion, youve been wrong. You said we should have gone into iraq despite the fact that there were no weapons of mass destruction. You said that we should still have troops in the iraq to this day. You indicated that we shouldnt be passing Nuclear Treaties with russia, despite the fact that 71 senators, democrats and republicans, voted for i. Voted for it. Youve said that, first, we should not have a timeline in afghanistan, then you said we should. Now you say maybe or it depends. Which means not only were you wrong, but youre also confusing ask sending mixed messages both to our troops and our allies. So what we need to do with respect to the middle east is strong, steady leadership, not wrong and reckless leadership that is all over the map. And, unfortunately, thats the kind of opinions that youve offered throughout this campaign, and it is not a recipe for american strength or keeping america safe moderator im going to add a couple of minutes here to give you a chance to respond. Romney well, of course i dont concur with what the president said about my own record and the things that ive said. They dont happen to be accurate. I can say this, that were talking about the middle east and how to help the middle east reject the terrorism and the rising tide of tumult and confusion. And attacking me is not an agenda. Attacking me is not talking about how were going to deal with the challenges that exist in the middle east and take advantage of the opportunity there and stem the tide of this violence. But ill respond to a couple of the things you mentioned. First of all, russia, i indicated, is a geopolitical foe. Excuse me. Its a geopolitical foe, and in the same paragraph i said and iran is the greatest National Security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the u. N. Time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. Im not going to wear rosecolored glasses when it comes to russia or mr. Putin, and im certainly not going to say to him, ill give you more flexibility after the election. After the election hell get more backbone. Number two, with regards to iraq, you and i agreed, i believe, that there should have been a status of forces agreement. Obama thats not true. Romney oh, you didnt want a obama no, what i would not have done is leaf 10,000 troops in iraq that would tie us down. Romney im sorry, you actually there was an effort on the part of the president to have a status of forces agreement, and i concurred and said we should have some number of troops obama governor romney that was my posture as well. I think there should have been more troops, but the answer was obama this is just a few weeks ago that you indicated we should still have troops in iraq. Romney im sorry, thats obama you made a speech. Romney i indicated that you failed to put in place a status of forces agreement at the end of the conflict that obama golf, heres one thing governor, heres one thing ive learned as commander in chief. Youve got to be clear both to our allies and our enemies about where you stand. And what you mean. Now, you just gave a speech a few weeks ago in which you said we should still have troops in iraq. That is not a recipe for making sure that we are taking advantage of the opportunities and meeting the challenge of the middle east. Now, it is absolutely true that we cannot just meet these challenges militarily. So what ive done throughout my presidency and will continue to do is, number one, make sure that these countries are supporting our counterterrorism efforts. Number two, make sure that they are standing by our interests in israels security because it is a true friend and our greatest ally in the region. Number three, we do have to make sure that were protecting religious minorities and women because these countries cant develop unless all the population not just half of it is developing. Number four, we do have to develop their economic, their economic capabilities. But number five, the other ting that we have to do is recognize that we cant continue to do nation building in these regions. Part of American Leadership is making sure were doing nation building here at home. That will help us maintain the kind of American Leadership that we need. Moderator let me interject the second topic question in this segment about the middle east and so on, and that is you both mentioned, alluded to this, and it is a syria. The war in syrias now spilled over into lebanon. We have, what, more than 100 people that were killed there in a woman. There in a bomb. There were demonstrations there, eight people dead. Mr. President , its been more than a year since you told assad he had to go. Since then 30,000 syrians have died. Weve had 300,000 refugees, the war goes on, hes still there. Should we reassess our policy and see if we can find a better way to influence events there, or is that even possible, and you go first, sir. Obama what weve done is organize the International Community saying assad has to go. Weve mobilized sanctions against that government. We have made sure that they are isolated. We have provided humanitarian assistance, and we are helping the opposition organize, and were particularly interested in making sure that were mobilizing the moderate forces inside of syria. But ultimately, syrians are going to have to determine their own future. And so everything were doing, were doing in this consultation with our partners in the region, including israel which, obviously, has a huge interest in seeing what happens in syria. Coordinating with turkey and other countries in the region that have a great interest in this. Now, what were seeing taking place in syria is heartbreaking, and thats why we are going to do everything we can to make sure that we are helping the opposition. But we also have to recognize that, you know, for us to get more entangled militarily in syria is a serious step. And we have to do so making absolutely certain that we know who we are helping, that were not putting arms in the hands of folks who eventually could turn them against us or our allies in the region. And i am confident that assads days are numbered. But what we cant do is to simply suggest that, as governor romney at times has suggested, that giving heavy weapons, for example, to the Syrian Opposition is a simple proposition that would lead us to be safer over the long term. Moderator governor . Romney well, lets step back and talk about whats happening in syria and how important it is. First of all, 30,000 people being killed by their government is a humanitarian disaster. Secondly, syrias an opportunity for us because syria plays an Important Role in the middle east, particularly right now. Syria is irans only ally in the arab world. Its their route to the sea. Its the route for them to arm hezbollah in lebanon which threatens, of course, our ally, israel. So seeing syria remove assad is a very high priority for us. Number two, seeing a replacement government being responsible people is critical for us. And finally, we dont want to have military involvement there. We dont want to get drawn into a military conflict. So the right course for us is working through our partners and with our own resources to identify responsible parties within syria, organize them, bring them together in a form of if not government, a form of counsel that can take the lead in syria and then make sure they have the arms necessary to defend themselves. We do need to make sure that they dont have arms that get into the wrong hands. Those arms could be used to hurt us down the road. We need to make sure as well that we coordinate this effort with our allies and particularly with israel. But the saudis and the qatari and the turks are all very concerned about this. Theyre willing to work with us. We need to have a very effective leadership effort in syria making sure that the insurgents there are armed and that the insurgents that become armed are people who will be the responsible parties. Recognize that i believe assad must go. I believe he will go. But i believe we want to make sure that we have the relationships of friendship with the people that take his place such that in the years to come we see syria as a friend and syria as a responsible party in the middle east. This is a critical opportunity for america, and what im afraid of is that weve watched over the past year or so, first, the president saying, well, well let the u. N. Deal with it and assad excuse me, kofi annan came in and said were going to have a ceasefire. That didnt work. Then it looked to the russians and said see if you can do something. We should be playing the leadership role there. Not on the ground with military. Moderator all right. Obama we are playing the leadership role. We organized the friends of syria, we are mobilizing humanitarian support and support for the opposition. And we are making sure that those we help are those who will be friends of ours in the long term and friends of our allies in the region over the long term. But, you know, going back to libya because this is an example of how we make choices. You know, when we went into libya and we were able to immediately stop the massacre there because of the unique circumstances and the coalition that we had helped to organize, we also had to make sure that moammar Moammar Gadhafi didnt stay there. And to the governors credit, you supported us going into libya and the coalition we organized. But when it came time to making sure that gadhafi did not stay in power, that he was captured, governor, your suggestion was that this was Mission Creep, that this was mission muddle. Imagine if we had pulled out at that point. You know, Moammar Gadhafi had more american blood on his hands than any individual other than Osama Bin Laden. So we were going to make sure that we finished the job. Thats part of the reason why the libyans stand with us. But we did so in a careful, thoughtful way, making certain that we knew who we were dealing with, that those forces of moderation on the ground were ones that we could work with, and we had to take the same kind of steady, thoughtful leadership when it comes to syria. Thats exactly what were doing. Moderator governor, can i just ask you, would you go beyond what the administration would do, like for example, would you put in nofly zones over syria . Romney i dont want to have our military involved in syria. I dont think theres a necessity to put our military in syria at this stage, and i dont anticipate that in the future. As i indicated, our objectives are to replace assad and to have in place a new government which is friendly to us, a responsible government if possible, and i want to make sure they get armed. And they have the arms necessary to defend themselves, but also to remove, to remove assad. But i do not want to see a military involvement on the part of our troops. And this isnt, this isnt going to be necessary. We have with our partners in the region we have sufficient resources to support those groups. But, look, this has been going on for a year. This is a time this should have been a time for American Leadership. We should have taken a leading role not militarily but a leading role organizationally, governmentally to bring together the parties there to find responsible parties. As you hear from intelligence sources even today, the insurgents are highly disparate, they havent come together, they havent formed a unity group, a counsel of some kind. That needs to happen. America can help that happen. And we need to make sure they have the arms they need to carry out the very Important Role which is getting rid of assad. Moderator can we get a quick response, mr. Presq mv take responsible for protecting religious minorities, and we have put significant pressure on them to make sure theyre doing that. To recognize the rights of women which is critical throughout the region. These countries cant develop if young women are not given the kind of education that they need. They have to abide by their treaty with israel. That is a red line for us. Because not only is israels security at stake, but our security is at stake if that unravels. They have to make sure theyre cooperating when it comes to counterterrorism, and we will help them with respect to developing their own economy because, ultimately, whats going to make the egyptian revolution successful for the people of egypt but also for the world is if those young people who gather there are seeing opportunities. Their aspirations are similar to young peoples here. They want jobs, they want to be able to make sure their kids are going to a good school, they want to make sure that they have a roof over their heads and that they have the prospects of a better life in the future. Ask so one of the things that weve been doing is, for example, organizing entrepreneurship conferences with these egyptians to give them a sense of how they can start rebuilding their economy in a way thats noncorrupt, thats transparent. But what is also important for us to understand is that for america to be successful in this region there are some things that were going to have to do here at home as well. You know, one of the challenges over the last decade as weve done experiments in nation building in places like iraq and afghanistan, weve neglected our own economy, energy sectors, Education System, and its very hard to project leadership around the world when were not doing what we need to do moderator governor romney, i want to hear your response to that, but i would just ask you, would you have stuck with mubarak . Romney no. I believe as the president indicated and said at the time that i supported his action there. I felt that i wish wed have had a better vision of the future. I wish that looking back at the beginning of the president s term and even further back than that that wed have recognized that there was a growing energy and passion for freedom in that part of the world and that we would have worked more aggressively with our friend and with other friends in the region to have them make the transition towards a more representative form of government such that it didnt explode in the way it did. But once it exploded, i felt the same that the president did which is these freedom voices in the streets of egypt were the people who were speaking of our principles and president mubarak had done things which were unimaginable. And the idea of him crushing his people was not something that we could possibly support. Let me step back and talk about what i think our mission has to be in the middle east and even more broadly. Because our purpose is to make sure the world is more, the peaceful. We want a peaceful planet. We want people to end joy their lives and enjoy their lives and not be at war. The mantle of leadership has fallen to america. We didnt ask for it, but its an honor that we have it. But for us to be able to promote those principles of peace requires us to be strong. And that begins with a Strong Economy here at home and, unfortunately, the economy is not stronger. When the the president of iraq, excuse me, of iran, ahmadinejad, says that our debt makes us not a great country. Thats a frightening thing. Former chief of the joint chiefs of staff said that, admiral mullen, said our debt is the biggest National Security threat we face. We have weakened our economy. We need a Strong Economy. We need to have, as well, a Strong Military. Our militarys second to none in the world. Were blessed with terrific soldiers and Extraordinary Technology and intelligence. But the idea of a trillion dollars in cuts through sequestration and budget cuts to the military would change that. We need to have strong allies. Our association and connection with our allies is essential to americas strength. Were the great nation that has allies. 42 allies and friends around the world. And finally, we have to stand by our principles. And if were strong in each of those things, american influence will grow. But unfortunately, in nowhere in the world is americas influence greater today than it was four years ago moderator youre going to get a chance to respond to that because thats a perfect segway into our next segment, and that is what is americas role in the world, and that is the question. What do each of you see as our role in the world, and i believe, governor romney, its your turn to go first. Romney well, i absolutely believe that america has a responsibility and the privilege of helping defend freedom and promote the principles that make the world more peaceful. And those principles include human rights, human dignity, Free Enterprise, freedom of expression, elections. Because when there are elections, people tend to vote for peace. They dont vote for war. So we want to promote those principles around the world. We recognize that there are places of conflict in the world. We want to end those conflicts to the extent humanly possible. But in order to be able to full fill our role in the world, america must be strong. America must lead. And for that to happen, we have to strengthen our economy here at home. You cant have 23 Million People struggling to get a job. You cant have an economy that over the last three years keeps slowing down its growth rate. You cant have kids coming out of college, half of whom cant find a job today or a job thats commensurate with their college degree. We have to get our economy going. And our military, weve got to strengthen our military long term. We dont know what the world is going to throw at us down the road. We make decisions today in the military that well confront challenges we cant imagine n. The 2000 debates, there was no mention of terrorism, for instance. And a year later 9 11 happened. So we have to make decisions based upon uncertainty, and that means a Strong Military. I will not cut our military budget. We have to also stand by our allies. I think the tension that existed between israel and the United States was very unfortunate. I think, also, that pulling our Missile Defense program out of poland in the way we did was also unfortunate in terms of, if you will, disrupting the relationship in some ways that existed between us. And then, of course, with regards to standing for our principles, when the students took to the streets in tehran and the people there protested, the green revolution occurred, for the president to be silent, i thought, was an enormous mistake. We have to stand for our principles, stand for our allies, stand for a Strong Military and stand for a stronger economy. Moderator mr. President . Obama america remains the one indispensable nation, and the world needs a strong america, and it is stronger now than when i came into office. Because we ended the war in iraq, we were able to refocus our attention on not only the terrorist threat, but also beginning a transition process in afghanistan. It also allowed us to refocus on alliances, relationships that had been neglected for a decade. And, governor romney, our alliances have never been stronger in asia, in europe, in africa, with israel where we have unprecedented military and intelligence cooperation including dealing with the iranian threat. But what we also have been able to do is position ourselves so we can start rebuilding america. And can thats what my plan and thats what my plan does. Making sure were bringing manufacturing back to our shores so that were creating jobs here as weve done with the Auto Industry, not Rewarding Companies that are shipping jobs overseas. Making sure that weve got the best Education System in the world including retraining our workers for the jobs of tomorrow. Doing everything we can to control our own energy. Weve cut our oil imports to the lowest level in two decades. Because weve developed oil and natural gas, but we also have to develop Clean Energy Technologies that will allow us to cut our exports this half by 2020. Thats the kind of leadership that we need to show. And weve got to make sure that we reduce our deficit. Unfortunately, governor romneys plan doesnt do it. Weve got to do it in a responsible way by cutting out spending we dont need, but also asking the wealthiest to pay a little bit more that way we can invest in the research and technology thats always kept us at a cutting edge. Now, governor romney has taken a different approach throughout this campaign. You know, both at home and abroad he has proposed wrong and reckless policies. He has praised george bush as a good economic steward and dick cheney as somebody who shows great wisdom and judgment, and taking us back to those kinds of strategies that got us into this mess are not the way that we are going to maintain leadership in the 21st century. Moderator governor romney, wrong and reckless policies . [laughter] romney ive got a policy for the future and an agenda for the future. And when it comes to our economy here at home, i know what it takes to create 12 million new jobs and rising take home pay. And what weve seen over the last four years is something i dont want to see over the next four years. The president said by now wed be at 5. 4 unemployment. Were nine million jobs short of that. I will get america working again and see rising take home pay, and ill do it with phi simple five simple steps. Number one, we are going to have north American Energy independence by taking full advantage of oil, coal, gas, nuclear and our renewables. Number two, were going to increase our trade. Trade grows about 12 per year and doubles every fife or so years five or so years. We can do better than that, particularly in latin america. We have just not taken advantage of the opportunities fully. Latin americas economy is almost as big as china. Were all focused on china. Latin americas a huge opportunity for us. Time zone, language opportunities. Number three, were going to have to have Training Programs that work for our workers and schools that finally put the parents and the teachers and the kids first and the teachers unions going to have to go behind. And then were going to have to get to a balanced budget. We cant expect entrepreneurs and businesses large and small to take their life savings or their companys money and invest in america if they think were headed to the road to greece. And thats what where were going unless we get off this spending and borrowing binge. And finally, number five, weve got to champion Small Business. Small business is where jobs come from. Twothirds of our jobs come from Small Businesses. New business formation is down at the lowest level in 30 years under this administration. I want to bring it back and get back good jobs and rising take home pay. Obama lets talk about what we need to compete. First of all, governor romney talks about Small Businesses, but, governor, when you were in massachusetts, Small Business development ranked about 48th, i think, out of 50 states in massachusetts. Because the policies youre promoting dont actually help Small Businesses, and the way you define Small Businesses include folks at the very top. They include you and me. Thats not the kind of Small Business promotion we need. But lets take an example we know is going to make a difference in the 21st century, and thats our education policy. We didnt have a lot of chance to talk about this in the last debate. Now, under my leadership what weve done is reformed education working with governors, 46 states. Weve seen progress and gains in schools that were having a terrible time, and theyre starting to finally make progress. And what i now want to do is to hire more teachers, especially in math and science because we know that weve fallen behind when it comes to math and science. And those teachers can make a difference. Now, governor romney, when you were asked by teachers whether or not this would help the economy grow, you said this isnt going to help the economy grow. When you were asked about reduced class sizes, you said class sizes dont make a difference. But i tell you, if you talk to teachers, they will tell you it does make a difference. And if weve got math teachers who are able to provide the kind of support that they need for our kids, thats whats going to determine whether or not the new businesses are created here, companies are going to locate here depending on whether weve got the most highlyskilled work force and the kinds of budget proposals that youve put forward when we dont ask either you or me to pay a dime more in terms of reducing the deficit, but instead we slash support for education, thats undermining our longterm competitiveness. That is not good for americas position in the world. And the world notices. Moderator let me get back to Foreign Policy. Can i just get back to romney well, i need to speak a moment if youll let me, bob, just about education moderator okay. Romney im so proud of the state that i had the chance to be governor of. We have every two years tests that look at how well our kids are doing. Fourth graders and eighth graders are tested in english and math. I was proud that our fourth graders came out number one in all 50 states in english and also in math. And our eighth graders number one in english and in math. First time one state had been number one in both measures. Republicans and democrats came together on a bipartisan but a sis basis that focused on having Great Teachers in the classroom. That allowed us to become the number one obama that was ten years ago before you took office, and then you cut education when you came into office. Romney and our state is still number one today. And the principles we put in place, we at gave kids not just a graduation exam that determined whether they were up to the skills they needed to compete, but if they graduated in the top quarter of their class, they got a fouryear tuitionfree ride at any massachusetts Public Institution of obama that happened before you came into office. Romney that was actually mine, mr. President. Moderator i want to try to shift it, because we have heard some of this in the other debates. Governor, you say you want a bigger military, you want a bigger navy. You dont want to cut defense spending. What i want to ask you, were talking about the [inaudible] in this country, where are you going to get the money . Romney lets talk about the military all the way through. First of all, im going through from the very beginning, were going to cut about 5 of the discretionary budget excluding military. Thats number one moderator get through this without romney the good news is ill be happy to have you take a lookment come on our web site, youll look at how we get to a balanced budget in 810 years. By the way, number one id get rid of is obamacare. There are a number of things that sound good, but frankly, we just cant afford them. And that one doesnt sound good, and its not affordable. So id get rid of that one from day one. To the extent humanly possible, wed take that out. Program after program that we dont absolutely have to have, and we get rid of them. Number two, we take some programs that we are going to keep like medicaid which is a program for the poor, we take that Health Care Program for the poor, and we give it to the states to run because states run these programs more efficiently. As a governor, i thought, please, give me this program. Moderator can he do that . Romney states are proving it. States like arizona, rhode island, have taken these medicaid dollars, have shown they can run these programs more cost effectively. Obama. Obama bob . Romney lets come back to the military. Moderator thats what i want to come back to. Obama you should have answered the first question. Look, governor romneys called for 5 trillion of tax cuts that he says hes going to pay for by closing deductions. Now, the math doesnt work, but he continues to claim hes going to do it. He then wants to spend another 2 trillion on military spending that our militarys not asking for. Now, keep in mind that our military spending has gone up every single year that ive been in office. We spend more on our military than the next ten countries combined; china, russia, france, the united kingdom, you name it. Next ten. And what i did was work with our joint chiefs of staff to think about what are we going to need in the future to make sure that we are safe. And thats the budget that weve put forward. But what you cant do is spend 2 trillion in additional military spending that the militarys not asking for, 5 trillion on tax cuts. You say that youre going to pay for it by closing loopholes and deductions without naming what those loopholes and can deductions are, and then somehow youre also going to deal with the deficit that weve already got. The math simply doesnt work. But when it comes to our military, what we have to think about is not, you know, just budgets, weve got to think about capabilities. We need to be thinking about cybersecurity. We need to be thinking about space. Thats exactly what our budget does, but its driven by strategy. Its not driven by politics, its not driven by members of congress and what they would like to see. Its driven by what are we going the need to keep the American People safe. Thats exactly what our budget does, and it also then allows us to reduce our deficit which is a significant National Security concern. Because weve got to make sure that our economy is strong at home so that we can project military power overseas. Romney bob, im pleased that i balance budgets. I was in the world of business for 25 years. If you didnt balance your budget, you went out of business. I went to to olympics, and we got it on balance and made it a success. I had a chance to be governor of a state. Four years in a row democrats and republicans balanced the budget. We cut taxes 19 times, balanced our budget. The president hasnt balanced a budget yet. I expect to have the opportunity to do so myself. Im going to be able to balance the budget. Lets talk about military spend, and thats in the moderator 30 seconds. Romney excuse me. Our navy is smaller now than any time since 1917. The navy said they needed 313 ships to carry out their mission. Were now to 285. Were headed down to the low 200s if we go through she she sequestration. Our air force is older and smaller at any time since it was founded in 1947. Weve changed for the First Time Since fdr, since fdr weve always had the strategy of saying we could fight in two conflicts at once. Now were changing to one conflict. This, in my view, is the highest responsibility of the president of the United States which is to maintain the safety of the American People, andly not cut our military budget by a trillion dollars which is the combination of the budget cuts that the president has as well as the sequestration cuts. That, in my view, is making our future less certain and less secure. Obama bob, i have comments on this. First of all, the sequesters not something that i proposed, its something that congress has proposed, it will not happen. The budget that were talking about is not reducing our military spending, its maintaining it. But i think governor romney maybe hasnt spent enough time looking at how our military works. You mentioned the navy, for example, and that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916. Well, governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets because the nature of our militarys changed. We have these things called Aircraft Carriers where planes land on them. We have ships that go under water, nuclear submarines. And so the question is not a game of battleship where were counting ships, its what are our capabilities. And so when i sit down with the secretary of the navy and the joint chiefs of staff, we determine how are we going to be best able the meet all of our defense needs in a way that also keeps faith with our troops, that also makes sure that our veterans have the kind of support that they need when they come home. And can that is not reflected and that is not reflected in the kind of budget youre putting forward because it just doesnt work. Moderator all right. Obama we visited the web site quite a bit, and it still doesnt work. [laughter] moderator a lot to cover. Id like to move to the next segment. Red lines, israel and iran. Would either of you, and youll have two minutes, and president obama, you have the first go at this one. Would either of you be willing to declare that an attack on israel is an attack on the United States . Which, of course, is the same promise that we give to our close allies like japan. And if you made such a declaration, would not that deter iran . Its certainly deterred the soviet union for a long, long time when we made that, when we made that promise to our allies. Mr. President . Obama first of all, israel is a true friend, it is our greatest ally in the region, and if israel is attacked, america will stand with israel. Ive made that clear throughout my presidency. Moderator so youre saying youve already made that declaration . Obama i will stand with israel if they are attacked. And this is the reason why working with israel we have created the Strongest Military and intelligence cooperation between our two countries in history. In fact, this week well be carrying out the Largest Military exercise with israel in history. This very week. But to the issue of iran, you know, as long as im president of the United States, iran will not get a Nuclear Weapon. Ive made that clear when i came into office. We then organized the strongest coalition and the strongest sanctions against iran in history, and it is crippling their economy. Their currency has dropped 80 . Their Oil Production has plunged to the lowest level since they were fighting a war with iraq 20 years ago. So their economy is in a shambles. And the reason we did this is because a nuclear iran is a threat to our National Security, and its a threat to israels National Security. We cannot afford to have a Nuclear Arms Race in the most volatile region of the world. Irans a state sponsor of terrorism, and for them to be able to provide Nuclear Technology to nonstate actors, thats unacceptable. And they have said that they want to see israel wiped off the map. So the work that weve done with respect to sanctions now offers iran a choice. They can take the diplomatic route and end their Nuclear Program, or they will have to face a united world and a United States president , me, who said were not going to take any options off the table. The disagreement i have with governor romney is that during the course of this campaign hes often talked as if we should take premature military action. I think that would be a mistake because when ive sent young men and women into harms way, i always understand that that is the last resort, not the first resort. Moderator two minutes. Romney well, first of all, i want to underscore the same point the president made which is that if im president of the United States, when im president of the United States, we will stand with israel. And if israel is attacked, we have their back. Not just diplomatically, not just culturally, but militarily. Thats number one. Number two, with regards to iran and the threat of iran, theres no question but the nuclear iran and nuclearcapable iran is unacceptable to america. It presents a threat not only to our friends, but ultimately a threat to us to have iran have nuclear material, Nuclear Weapons that could be used against us or to be threatening to us. Its also essential for us to understand what our mission is in iran, and that is to dissuade iran from having a Nuclear Weapon through peaceful and diplomatic means. And crippling sanctions was something i called for seven years ago, number one. And they do work. Youre seeing it right now in the economy. Its absolutely the right thing to do to have crippling sanctions. Id have put them in place earlier, but its good that we have them. Number two, something i would add today is i would tighten those sanctions. I would say that ships that carry iranian oil cant come into our ports. I imagine the e. U. Would agree with us as well. Not only ships couldnt, id say companies that are moving their oil cant, people who are trading in their oil cant, i would tighten those sanctions further. Secondly, id take on diplomatic isolation efforts. Id make sure that ahmadinejad is indicted under the genocide conventions. I would indict him for it. I would also make sure that their diplomats are treated like the pariah they are around the world, the same way we treated the apartheid diplomats of south africa. We need to increase pressure time and time again on iran because anything other than the solution to this which says, which stops this Nuclear Folly of theirs is unacceptable to america. And, of course, a military action is the last resort. It is something one would only, only consider if all of the other avenues have been tried to their full extent. Moderator let me ask both of you, as you know, there are reports that iran and the United States is part of an International Group have agreed in principle to talks about Irans Nuclear program. What is the deal if there are such talks, what is the deal that you would accept, mr. President . Obama well, first of all, those are reports in the newspaper. They are not true. But our goal is to get iran to recognize it needs to give up its Nuclear Program and abide by the u. N. Resolutions that have been in place because they had the opportunity to reenter the community of nations. And we would welcome that. There are people in iran who have the same aspirations as people all around the world for a better life. And we hope that their leadership takes the right decision. But the deal well accept is they end their Nuclear Program. Its very straightforward. And, you know, im glad that governor romney agrees with the steps that were taking. You know, there have been times, governor, frankly, during the course of this campaign where it sounded like you thought that youd do the same things we did, but youd say em louder, and somehow that would make a difference. And it turns out that the work involved in the setting up these crippling sanctions is pain staking. Its meticulous. We started from the day we got into office, and the reason it was so important and this is a testament to how weve restored american credibility and strength around the world is we had to make sure that all the countries participated, even countries like russia and china. Because if its just us that are imposing sanctions, weve had sanctions in place for a long time. Its because we got everybody to agree that iran is seeing so much pressure. And weve got to maintain that pressure. There is a deal to be had, and that is that they abide by the rules that have already been established, they convince the International Community they are not pursuing a Nuclear Program. There are inspections that are very intrusive, but over time what they can do is regain credibility. In the meantime, though, were not going to let up the pressure until we have clear evidence that takes place, and one last thing just to make this point, the clock is ticking. You know, were not going to allow iran to perpetally engage in negotiations that lead nowhere, and ive been very clear to them, you know, because of the intelligence coordination that we do with a range of countries including israel, we have a sense of when they would get breakout capacity which means that we would not be able to intervene in time to stop their Nuclear Program. And that clock is ticking. And were going to make sure that if they do not meet the demands of the International Community, then we are going to take all options necessary to make sure they dont have a Nuclear Weapon. Moderator governor . Romney i think from the very beginning one of the challenges weve had with iran is they have looked at this administration and felt the administration was not as strong as it needed to be. I think they saw weakness where they had expected to find american strength. And i say that because from the very beginning the president and his Campaign Said hed meet with all the worlds worst actors in his first year, hed sit down with chavez and kim jungil, with castro and with president ahmadinejad of iran. And i think they looked and thought, well, thats an unusual honor to receive from the president of the United States. And then the president began what ive called an apology tour of going to various nations in the middle east and criticizing america. I think they looked at that and saw weakness. Then when there were disdents in the streets of day ran, a green tehran, a green revolution Holding Signs saying, is america with us, the president was silent. I think they noticed that as well. And i think when the president said he was going to create daylight between ourselves and israel, that they noted that as well. All of these things suggested, i think, to the iranian mullahs that, hey, we can keep on pushing along here. We can keep talks going on, but were just going to keep on spinning centrifuges. Now theres some 10,000 centrifuges spinning uranium, preparing a Nuclear Threat to the United States and to the world. Thats unacceptable for us, and its essential for a president to show strength from the very beginning. To make it very clear what is acceptable and not acceptable, and an iranian Nuclear Program is not acceptable to us. They must not develop nuclear capability. And the way to make sure they understand that is by having from the very beginning the tightest sanctions possible. They need to be tightened, our diplomatic isolation needs to be tougher. We need to indict ahmadinejad, we need to put the pressure on them as hard as we possibly can because if we do that, we wont have to take the military action. Obama bob, let me just respond. Nothing governor romney just said is true. Starting with this notion of me apologizing. This has been probably the biggest whopper thats been told during the course of this campaign. And every fact checker and every reporter whos looked at it, governor, has said this is not true. And when it comes to tightening sanctions, look, as i said before, weve put in the toughest, most crippling sanctions ever. And the fact is while we were coordinating an International Coalition to make sure these sanctions were effective, you were still invested in a Chinese State oil company that was doing business with the iranian oil sector. So ill let the American People decide, judge whos going to be more effective and more credible when it comes to imposing crippling sanctions. And with respect to our attitude about the iranian revolution, i was very clear about the murderous activities that had taken place, and that was contrary to International Law and everything that civilized people stand for. And so the strength that we have shown in iran is shown by the fact that weve been able to mobilize the world. When i came into office, the world was divided. Iran was resurgent. Iran is at its weakest point economically, strategically, militarily than since, than in many years. And we are going to continue to keep the pressure on to make sure that they do not get a Nuclear Weapon. Thats in Americas National interests, and that will be the case so long as im president. Rock. Romney were four years closer to a nuclear iran, and we should not have wasted these four years to the extent they continue to be able to spin these centrifuges and get this much closer. Number two, the reason i call it an apology tour is because you went to the middle east, and you flew to egypt and to saudi arabia and to turkey and iraq, and by the way, you skipped israel, our closest friend in the region. But you went to the other nations. And by the way, they noticed that you skipped israel. And then in those nations and on arabic tv you said america had been dismissive and derisive. You said that on occasion america had dictated to other nations. Mr. President , america has not dictated to other nations, we have freed other nations from dictators. Obama bob, let me respond. You know, if were going to talk about trips that weve taken, you know, when i was a candidate for office, first trip i took was to visit our troops. And when i went to israel as a candidate, i didnt take donors, i didnt attend fundraisers. I went to the Holocaust Museum there to remind myself the nature of evil and why our bond with israel will be unbreakable. And then i went down to the border towns which had experienced missiles raining down from hamas, and i saw families there who showed me where missiles had come down near their childrens bedrooms, and i was reminded of what that would mean if those were my kids. Which is why as president we funded an Iron Dome Program to stop those missiles. So thats how ive used my travels. When i travel to israel and when i travel to the region. And the central question at this point is going to be whos going to be credible to all parties involved. And can they can look at my track record whether its iran sanctions, whether its dealing with counterterrorism, whether its supporting democracy, whether its supporting womens rights, whether its supporting religious minorities, and they can say that the president of the United States and the United States of america has stood on the right side of history. And that kind of credibility is precisely why weve been able to show leadership on a wide range of issues facing the world right now. Moderator what if, what if the Prime Minister of israel called you on the phone and said our bombers are on the way, were going to bomb iran. What do you romney lets not go into hypotheticals of that nature. Our relationship with israel, my relationship with the Prime Minister of israel is such that we would not get a call saying our bombers are on the way or their fighters are on the way. This is the kind of thing that would have been discussed and thoroughly evaluated well before that kind of moderator so youre saying it just wouldnt happen. Okay, lets see what [inaudible conversations] romney lets go back to what the president was speaking about which is whats happening in the world, and the president s statement that things are going so well. Look, i look at whats happening around the world, and i see iran four years closer to a bomb, i see the middle east with a rising tide of violence, chaos, tumult. I see jihadists continuing to spread whether theyre rising or just about the same level, hard to precisely measure, but its clear theyre there. Theyre very strong. I see syria with 30,000 civilians dead, assad still in power. I see our trade deficit with china larger than its growing larger every year, as a matter of fact. I look around the world, and i dont feel that you see north korea continuing to export their Nuclear Technology, russias said theyre not going to follow nunnlugar anymore, back away from Nuclear Proliferation treaty that we had with them. I look around the world, i dont see our influence growing, i see our influence receding in part because of the failure of the president to deal with our economic challenges at home, in part because of our withdrawal from our commitment to our military in the way i think it ought to be, in this part because of the turmoil with israel. I mean, the president received a letter from 38 democrat senators saying that tensions with israel were a real problem. They asked, please, repair the tension. Democrat senators. Please, repair the damage in his own party. Obama all right. Governor, the problem is that on a whole range offish hues whether its issues whether its the middle east, whether its afghanistan, whether its iraq, whether its now iran, youve been all over the map. I mean, im pleased that you now are endorsing our policy of applying diplomatic pressure and potentially having bilateral discussions with the iranians to end their Nuclear Program. But just a few years ago you said thats something youd never do. In the same way that you initially opposed a timetable in afghanistan. Now youre for it, although it depends. In the same way that you say you would have ended the war in iraq but recently gave a speech saying that we should have 20,000 more folks in there. The same way that you said that it was Mission Creep to go after gadhafi. When it comes to going after Osama Bin Laden, you said, well, any president would make that call. But when you were a candidate in 2008 as i was and i said if i got bin laden in our sights, i would take that shot, you said we shouldnt move heaven and earth to get one man, and you said we should ask pakistan for permission. And if we had asked pakistan for permission, we would not have gotten him. And it was worth moving heaven and earth to get him. You know, after we killed bin laden, i was at ground zero for a memorial and talked to a young woman who was 4 years old when 9 11 happened, and the last conversation she had with her father was him calling from the twin towers saying, peyton, i love you, and i will always watch over you. And for the next decade she was haunted by that conversation, and she said to me, you know, by finally getting bin laden that brought some closure to me. And when we do things like that, when we bring those who have harmed us to justice, that a sends a message to the world, and it tells payton that we did not forget her father. And i make that point because thats the kind of clarity of leadership and those decisions are not always popular. Those decisions generally are not poll tested. And even some in my own party, including my current Vice President , had the same critique as you did. But what the American People understand is that i look at what we need to get done to keep the American People safe and to move our interests forward, and i make those decisions. Moderator all right. Lets go, and that leads us, this takes us right to the next segment, governor, americas longest war, afghanistan and pakistan romney bob. You cant have the president just lay out a whole series of of without romney without respect, sir, you had laid out quite a program. Well catch up. Moderator United States is scheduled to turn over security to the Afghan Government in 2014. At that point we will withdraw our combat troops, leave a smaller force of americans if i understand our policy in afghanistan for training purposes. It seems to me the key question here is, what do you do if the deadline arrives, and it is obvious the afghans are unable to handle their security . Do we still leave . And, i believe, governor romney, you go first. Romney well, were going to be finished by 2014, and when im president , well make sure we bring our troops out by the end of 2014. The commanders and the generals there are on track to do so. Weve seen progress over the past several years. The surge has been successful, and the Training Program is proceeding at pace. There are now a large number of Afghan Security forces, 350,000, that are redd a to step this to ready to step in, and is were going to be able to make that transition by the end of 2014, so our troops will come home at that point. I can tell you at the same time that we will make sure that we look at whats happening in pakistan and recognize that whats happening in pakistan is going to have a major impact on the success in afghanistan. And i say that because i know a lot of people just feel like we should just brush our hands and walk away, and i dont mean you, mr. President , but some people in our nation feel that pakistan is being nice to us and that we should just walk away from them. But pakistan is important to the region, to the world and to us. Because pakistan has 100 nuclear warheads, and theyre rushing to build a lot more. Theyll have more than Great Britain sometime in the relatively near future. They also have the Haqqani Network and the taliban existent within their country. And so a pakistan that falls apart becomes a failed state would be of extraordinary danger to afghanistan and to us us. And so were going to have to remain helpful and encouraging pakistan to move towards a more stable government and rebuild a relationship with us, and that means that our aid that we provide to pakistan is going to have to be conditioned upon certain benchmarks being met m so if for me, i look at this as both a need to help move pakistan in the right direction and, also, to get afghanistan to be ready, and they will be ready by the end of 2014. Moderator mr. President. Obama you know, when i came into office, we were still bogged down in iraq, and afghanistan had been drifting for a decade. We ended the war in iraq, refocused our attention on afghanistan. And we did deliver a surge of troops. That was facilitated in part because we had ended the war in iraq. And we are now in a position where we have met many of the objectives that got us there in the first place. Part of what had happened is wed forgotten why wed gone. We went because there were people who were responsible for 3,000 american deaths. And so we decimated alqaedas core leadership in the Border Regions between afghanistan and pakistan. We then started to build up afghan forces, and were now in a position where we can transition out. Because theres no reason why americans should die when afghans are perfectly capable of defending their own country. Now, that transition has to take place in a responsible fashion. Weve been there a long time, and weve got to make sure that we and our Coalition Partners are pulling out responsibly and giving afghans the capabilities that they need. But what i think the American People recognize is after a decade of war, its time to do some nation building here at home. And what we can now do is free up some resources to, for example, put americans back to work, especially our veterans, rebuilding our roads, our bridges, our schools. Making sure that, you know, our veterans are getting the care that they need when it comes to post Traumatic Stress disorder and traumatic brain injury, making sure that the certificateifications certifications that they need for good jobs for the future are in place. You know, i was having lunch with some, a veteran in minnesota who had been a medic dealing with the most extreme circumstances. When he came home and he wanted to become a nurse, he had to start from scratch. And what we have said is lets change those certifications. The first ladys done great work with an Organization Called joining forces, putting our veterans back to work. And as a consequence, veteran unemployment is now lower than the general population. It was higher when i came into office. So those are the kinds of things that we can now do because were making that transition in afghanistan. Moderator all right. Let me go to governor romney. Because you talked about pakistan and what needs to be done there. General allen, our commander in afghanistan, says that americans continue to die at the hands of groups who are supported by pakistan. We know that pakistan has arrested the doctor who helped us catch obamas bin laden. It still provides safe haven for terrorists, yet we continue to give pakistan billions of dollars. Is it time for us to divorce pakistan . Romney no, its not time to divorce a nation on earth that has 100 Nuclear Weapons and is on the way to double that at some point. A nation that has serious threats from terrorist groups within its nation, as i indicated before, the taliban, Haqqani Network. Its a nation thats not like others, and it does not have a civilian leadership that is calling the shots there. Youve got the isi, their Intelligence Organization is probably the most powerful of the three branches there, then you have the military and you have the civilian government. This is a nation which, if it falls apart, if it becomes a failed state, there are Nuclear Weapons there. And youve got terrorists there who can grab their hands on those Nuclear Weapons. This is an important part of the world for us. Pakistan is technically an ally, and theyre not acting very much like an ally right now, but we have some work to do. And i dont blame the administration for the fact that the relationship with pakistan is strained. We had to go into pakistan. We had to go in there to get Osama Bin Laden. That was the right thing to do, and that upset them, but there was, obviously, a great deal of anger even before that. But were going to have to work with the people in pakistan to try and help them move to a more responsible course than the one that theyre on, and its important for them, its important for the Nuclear Weapons, its important for the success of afghanistan. Because inside pakistan you have a large group of pashtuns that are taliban. Theyre going to come rushing back into afghanistan when we go. And thats one of the reasons the Afghan Security forces have so much work to do to be able to fight against that. But its important for us to recognize that we cant just walk away from pakistan. But we do need to make sure as we, as we send support for them that this is tied to them making progress on matters that would lead them to becoming a civil society. Moderator let me ask you, governor, because we know president obamas position on this, what is your position on the use of drones . Romney well, i believe that we should use any and all means necessary to take out people who pose a threat to us and our friends around the world. And its widely reported that drones are being used in drone strikes, and i support that entirely and feel the president was right to up the usage of that technology and believe that we should continue to use it to continue to go after the people who represent a threat to this nation and to our friends. Let me also note that as i said earlier, were going to have to do more than just going after leaders and killing bad guys. Important as that is. Were also going to have to have a far more effective and comprehensive strategy to help move the world away from terror and islamic extremism. We havent done that yet. We talk a lot about these things, but you look at the record, you look at the record of the last four years and say is iran closer to a bomb . Yes. Is the middle east in tumult . Yes. Is alqaeda on the run . On its heels . No. Is, are israel and the palestinians closer to reaching a Peace Agreement . No. They havent had talks in two years. We have not seen the progress we need to have, and im convinced that with strong leadership and an effort to build a strategy based upon helping these nations reject extremism, we can see the kind of peace and prosperity the world demands. Obama well, keep in mind our strategy wasnt just going after bin laden. Weve created partnerships throughout the region to deal with extremism in somalia, in yemen, in pakistan. And what weve also done is engage these governments in the kind of reforms that are actually going to make a difference in peoples lives daytoday. To make sure that their governments arent corrupt, to make sure that they are treating women with the kind of respect and dignity that every nation that succeeds has shown. And to make sure that theyve got a free market system that works. So across the board we are engaging them in building capacity in these countries, and we have stood on the side of democracy. One thing i think americans should be proud of, when tunisians began to protest, this nation me, my administration stood with them earlier than just about any other country. In egypt we stood on the side of democracy. In libya we stood on the side of the people. And as a consequence, there is no doubt that attitudes about americans have changed. But there are always going to be elements in these countries that potentially threaten the United States, and we want the shrink those groups and is those networks, and we can do that. But were always also going to have to maintain vigilance when it comes to terrorist activities. The truth is that alqaeda is much weaker than it was when i came into office, and they dont have the same capacities to attack the u. S. Homeland and our allies as they did four years ago. Moderator lets go to the next segment, because its a very important one. It is the rise of china and future challenges for america. I want to just begin this by asking both of you and, mr. President , you go first this time, what do you believe is the greatest future threat to the National Security of this country . Obama well, i think it will continue to be terrorist networks. We have to remain vigilant, as i just said. But with respect to china, chinas both an adversary but also a potential partner in the International Community if its following the rules. So my attitude coming into office was that we are going to insist that china plays by the same rules as everybody else. And i know americans have seen jobs being shipped overseas, businesses and workers not getting a level Playing Field when it came to trade, and thats the reason why i set up a trade task force to go after cheaters when it came to international trade. Thats the reason why we have brought more cases against china for violating trade rules than the other, the Previous Administration had done in two terms. And weve won just about every case that weve filed that has been decided. In fact, just recently Steel Workers in ohio and throughout the midwest, pennsylvania, are in a position now to sell steel to china because we won that case. We had a tire case in which they were flooding us with cheap domestic tires, or cheap chinese tires, and we put a stop to it. And as a consequence, saved job throughout america. I have to say that governor romney criticized me for being too tough in that tire case. Said this wouldnt be good for American Workers and that it would be protectionist. But i tell you, those workers dont feel that way. They feel as if they had finally an administration who was going to take this issue seriously. Over the long term in order for us to compete with china, weve also got to make sure, though, that were taking care of business here at home. If we dont have the best Education System in the world, if we dont continue to put money into research and technology that will allow us to create great businesseses here in the United States businesses here in the United States, thats how we lose the competition and, unfortunately, governor romneys budget and his proposals would not allow us to make those investments. Moderator all right. Governor . Romney well, first of all, its not government that makes business successful, its not government investments that make businesses grow and hire people. Let me also note that the greatest threat that the world faces, the greatest National Security threat is a nuclear iran. Lets talk about can china. China has an interest thats very much like ours in one respect, and that is they want a stable world. They dont want war, they dont want to see protectionism, they dont want to see the world break out into various forms of chaos because they have to, they have to manufacture goods and put people to work, and they have about 20,000 20 million, rather, people coming out of the farms every year coming into the cities needing jobs. So they want the economy to work and the world to be free and open. And so we can be a partner with china. We dont have to be an adversary in any way, shape or form. We can work with them, we can collaborate with them if theyre willing to be responsible. Now, they look at us and say is it a good idea to be with america . How strong are we going to be . How strong is our economy . They look at the fact that we owe them a trillion dollars and owe other people 16 trillion in total, including them. They look at our decision to cut back on our military capabilities, a trillion dollars. The secretary of defense called these trillion dollars of cuts to our military devastating. Its not my term, its the president s own secretary of defense called them devastating. They look at americas commitments around the world, and they see whats happening, and they say, well, okay, is america going to be strong . And the answer is, yes. If im president , america will be very strong. Well also make sure that we have trade relations with china that work for us. Ive watched year in and year out as companies have shut down and people have lost their jobs because china has not played by the same rules, in part by holding down artificially the value of their currency. It holds down the prices of their goods. It means our goods arent as competitive, and we lose jobs. Thats got to end. Theyre making some progress. They need to make more. Thats why on day one i will label them a currency manipulator which allows us to apply tariffs where theyre taking jobs. Theyre stealing our intellectual property, our at patents, hacking into our computers, counterfeiting our goods. They have to understand we want to trade with them, we want a world thats stable, we like Free Enterprise, but youve got to play by the rule. Moderator well, governor, let me just ask you, if you declare them a currency manipulator on day one, some people are saying youre just going to start a trade war with china on day one. Is that, isnt there a risk that that could happen . Romney well, they sell us about this much stuff every year, and we sell them about this much stuff every year. So its pretty clear who doesnt want a trade war. And theres one going on right now which we dont know about. Its a silent one, and theyre winning. We have an enormous trade imbalance with china, and its worse this year than last year, and its worse last year than the year before. And so we have to understand that we cant just surrender and lose jobs year in and year out, we have to say to our friends in china, look, you guys are playing aggressively, we understand it, but this cant keep on going. You cant keep on holding down the value of your currency, stealing our intellectual property, counterfeiting our products, selling them around the world even to the United States. I was with one company that makes valves, and they said, look, we were having some valves coming in that were broken, and we had to repair them under warranty, and we looked them up, and they had our serial number on them, and then we noticed there was more than one with that same serial number. There were counterfeit products being made overseas with the same serial number as the u. S. Company, the same packaging. These were being sold into our market and around the world as if they were made by the u. S. Competitor. This cant go on. I want a great relationship with china. China can be our partner. But that doesnt mean they can just roll all over us and steal our jobs on an unfair basis. Obama well, governor romneys right. You are familiar with jobs being shipped overseas because you invested in companies that were shipping jobs overseas, and, you know, thats your right. Thats how our free market works. But ive made a different bet on American Workers, you know . If we had taken your advice, governor romney, about our Auto Industry, wed be buying cars from china instead of selling cars to china. If we take your advice with respect to how we change our tax code so that companies who earn profits overseas dont pay taxes compared to companies here that are paying taxes, thats estimated to create 800,000 jobs in places like china. And if were not making investments in education and basic research which is not something that the private sector is doing at a sufficient pace right now and has never done, then we will lose the lead in tings like things Like Clean Energy technology. Now, with respect to what weve done with china already, u. S. Exports have doubled. Since i came into office, to china. And, actually, currencies are at their most advantageous point for u. S. Exporters since 1993. We absolutely have to make more progress, and thats why were going to keep on pressing. And when it comes to our military and chinese security, part of the reason that we were able to pivot to the asiapacific region after having ended the war in iraq and transitioning out of afghanistan is precisely because this is going to be a massive growth area in the future. And we believe china can be a partner, but were also sending a very clear signal that america is a pacific power, that we are going to have a presence there. We are working with countries in the region to make sure, for example, that ships can pass through, that commerce continues. And were organizing trade relations with countries other than china so that china starts feeling more pressure about meeting basic international standards. Thats the kind of leadership weve shown in the region, that thats the kind of leadership that well continue to show. Romney i just want to take one of those points, again, attacking me is not talking about an agenda for getting more trade and opening up more jobs in this country. But the president mentioned the Auto Industry and that somehow i would be in favor of jobs being elsewhere. Nothing could be further from the truth. Im a son of detroit. I was born in this detroit. My dad was head of a car company. I like american cars. And i would do nothing to hurt the u. S. Auto industry. My plan to get the industry on its feet when it was in real trouble was not to start writing checks. It was president bush that wrote the first checks. I disagreed with that. I said these Companies Need to go through a managed bankruptcy, and in that process they can get government help and government guarantees, but they need to go through bankruptcy to get rid of excess costs and the debt burden theyd built up. And fortunately obama governor romney, thats not what you said. Romney you can take a lock at the oped. Obama you did not say that you would provide government help. Romney i said we would provide guarantees to enable these companies to go through bankruptcy, come out of bankruptcy. Under no circumstances would i do anything than to help this industry get on it feet, and the idea its been suggested that i would liquidate the industry, of course not. Of course not. Obama lets check the record. Romney [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] romney thats why i have the kind of commitment to make sure that our industries in this country can compete and be successful. We in this country can compete successfully with anyone in the world, and were going to. Were going to have to have a president , however, that doesnt think that somehow the government investing in the Car Companies like tesla and fission kerr, making electric battery cars, this is not research, mr. President. These are the government investing in companies, investing in solyndra. This is a company this isnt basic research. I want to invest in research. Research is great. Providing funding to universities and think tanks, great. But investing in companies . Absolutely not. Obama governor, the fact of the matter romney im speaking. [laughter] i want to make sure we make america more competitive. Obama yeah. Romney and we make america the most attractive place in the world for entrepreneurs, innovators. But your investing in companies doesnt do that, in fact, it makes it less likely for them to come here obama governor, im happy to respond to you. Youve held the floor for a while. The look, i think anybody out there can check the record. Governor romney, you keep on trying to, you know, air brush history here. You were very clear that you would not provide government assistance to the u. S. Auto Companies Even if they went through bankruptcy. You said they could get it in the private marketplace. That wasnt true. They would have gone through a romney youre wrong. Obama no, i am not wrong. Romney people will look it up, youre right. Obama people will look it up. But more importantly, in order for us to be more competitive, were going to have to make some smart choices right now. Cutting our education budget, thats not a smart choice. That will not help us compete with china. Cutting our investments in research and technology, thats not a smart choice. That will not help us complete with china. Bringing down our deficit by adding 7 trillion of tax cuts and military spending that our militarys not asking for before we even get to the debt that e currently have that we currently have, that is not going to make us more competitive. Those are the kinds of choices that the American People face right now, having a tax code that rewards companies that are shipping jobs overseas instead of companies that are investing here in the United States. That will not make us more competitive. And the one thing that im absolutely clear about is that after a decade in which we saw drift, jobs being shipped overseas, nobody championing American Workers and american businesses, weve now begun to make some Real Progress. What we cant do is go back to the same policies that got us into such difficulty in the first place. Thats why we have to move forward and not go back. Romney i couldnt agree more about going forward, but i certainly dont want to go back to the policies of the last four years. The policies of the last four years has seen incomes in america decline every year for middle income families, now down 4,300 during your term. 23 million Americans Still struggling to find a good job. When you came to office, 32 Million People on food stamps, today 47 Million People on food stamps. When you came to office, just over 10 trillion in the debt, now 16 trillion in debt. It hasnt worked. You said by now wed be at 5. 4 unemployment. Were nine million jobs short of that. Ive met some of those people. Ive met them in appleton, wisconsin. I met a young woman in philadelphia whos coming out of college, cant find work. Ive been ann was with someone just the other day just weeping about not being able to get work. Its just a tragedy in a nation so prosperous as ours that these last four years have been so hard. And thats why its so critical that we make america once again the most attractive place in the world to start businesses, to build jobs, to grow the economy. And thats not going to happen by just hiring teachers. Look, i love teachers, and im happy to have states and communities that want to hire teachers do that. By the way, i dont like to have the federal government start pushing its way deeper and deeper into our schools. Let the states and localities do that. I was a governor, the federal government didnt hire our teachers. I love teachers, but i want to get our private sector growing, and i know how to do it. Moderator i think we all love teachers. [laughter] gentlemen, thank you so much for a very vigorous debate. We have come to the end. It is time for closing statements. I believe youre first, mr. President. Obama well, thank you very much, bob, governor romney, and to Lynn University. Youve now heard three debates, months of campaigning and way too many tv commercials. [laughter] and now youve got a choice. You know, over the last four years, weve made Real Progress digging our way out of policies that gave us two prolonged wars, record deficits and the worst economic crisis since the great depression. And governor romney wants to take us back to those policies. A Foreign Policy thats wrong and reckless, economic policies that wont create jobs, wont reduce our deficit but will make sure that folks at the very top dont have to play by the same rules that you do. And ive got a different vision for america. I want to build on our strengths. And ive put forward a plan to make sure that were bringing manufacturing jobs back to our shores. By Rewarding Companies and Small Businesses that are investing here, not overseas. I want to make sure weve got the best Education System in the world, and were retaining our workers for the jobs of tomorrow. I want to control our own energy by developing oil and natural gas, but also the Energy Sources of the future. Yes, i want to reduce our deficit by cutting spending we dont need, but also by asking the wealthy to do a little bit more so we can invest in things Like Research and technology that are the key to a 21st century economy. As commander in chief, i will maintain the Strongest Military in the world, keep faith with our troops and go after those who would do us harm, but after a decade of war i think we all recognize weve got to do some nation building here at Home Rebuilding our roads, our bridges and, especially, caring for our veterans who have sacrificed so much for our freedom. Weve been through tough times, but we always bounce back because of our character, because we pull together. And if i have the privilege of being your president for another four years, i promise you, i will always listen to your voices, i will fight for your families, and i will work every single day to make sure that america continues to be the greatest nation on earth. Thank you. Moderator governor. Romney thank you. Bob, mr. President , folks at Lynn University, good to be with you. Im optimistic about the future. Im excited about our prospects as a nation. I want to see peace. I want to see growing peace in this country. Its our objective. We have an opportunity to have real leadership. Americas going to have that kind of leadership and continue to promote principles of peace that will make the world a safer place and make people in the country more confident that their future is secure. I also want to make sure that we get this economy going, and there are two very different paths the country can take. One is a path represented by the president which at the end of four years would mean wed have 20 trillion in debt, heading towards greece. Ill get us on track to a balanced budget. The president s path will mean continuing declining in take home pay. I want to make sure our take home pay turns around and starts to grow. The president s path means 20 Million People out of work struggling for a good job. Ill get people back to work with 12 million new jobs. Im going to make sure we get people off of food stamps not by cutting the program, but by getting them good jobs. Americas going to come back, and for that to happen were going to have to have a president who can work across the aisle. I was in a state where my legislature was 87 democrat. I learned how to get along on the other side of the aisle. Weve got to do that in washington. Washington is broken. I know what it takes to get this country back, and well work with good democrats and good republicans to do that. This nation is the hope of the earth. Weve been blessed by having a nation thats free and prosperous thanks to the contributions of the greatest generation. Theyve held a torch for the world to see, a torch of freedom and hope and opportunity. Now its our turn to take that torch. Im convinced well do it. We need strong leadership. Id like to be that leader with your support. Ill work with you. Ill lead you in an open and honest way. And i ask for your vote. Id like to be the next president of the United States to support and help this great nation and to make sure that we all together maintain america as the hope of the earth. Thank you so much. Moderator gentlemen, thank you both so much. That brings an end to this years debates, and we want to thank Lynn University and its students for having us. As i always do at the end of these debates, i leave you with the words of my mom who said, go vote. It makes you feel big and strong. Obama thats great. Moderator good night. Obama thank you, bob. Romney thank you. [applause]. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] our live coverage of the final 2012 president ial debate continues with analysis from reporters and editors at politico. Welcome to political life. I am here with mike allen and john harris, editorinchief of politico. Welcome to the futures and news channel eight, politico. Com and cspan. If you didnt watch the debate and you are turning in, save your time. Basically you can take it into words, they agreed. Never have two candidates agree on so much in a 90 minute period in a president ial debate. Yet, despite the agreement, the stylistic differences to me were fascinating. Mitt romney clearly came into this debate wellprepared, trying to appeal to undecided voters particularly women trying not to engage in any fights with president obama, trying to appear president ial. He clearly did his homework. He was throwing out staff and names. Molly, twice, [inaudible mols a strong glock. He came off doing what he wanted to do which was he wanted to appear extremely strong and extremely president ial and be able to say how could you critique me when you agree with me . I felt that in a number of times when the president was making his point so aggressively. What was communicated in those exchanges was not strength and confidence but what was communicated was a kind of, sort of vague nitpicking strategy of diminishing the president which is the fact he is already commander in chief. Where you come down on that i feel that the postgame analysis to reflect on what were all ready. Its johns point, hes aggressive. He said a lot of things that to me, stephanie, his adviser that likes to fight in politics would love but i wonder if an independent voter who is sitting there in ohio or wisconsin or iowa, whether they found that strong and president ial or round of the to whether they found if like john like why it seems like you were being defensive. Mitt romney won that battle of the moment when he learned his lesson about tangling with the moderator last time coming and he tried to call on Bob Schieffer and he called him back and said thats probably true and he conceded the point. That is what people were looking for, someone who could get it, who had that kind of confidence. The president s starkiness has gotten a lot of play. People on each side think that there by one but people say that the email that i got from the favorite banker said that he was treating mitt romney not as a former governor but as if he worked at mcdonalds, he tried to explain to him what an Aircraft Carrier was. A very slight. And then the horses and bayonets comment on twitter, hash tag horses and bayonets isnt going to play out wv with a make ships and was obama really talking down. Lets take a look at the clip where we put together those comments we think there will be a lot of commentary on overnight. General romney, i am glad that you were elected because when you were asked what is the biggest geopolitical threat facing american you said russia. Not al qaeda. Musette russia. And the 1980s are now calling to ask for their Foreign Policy back because the cold war has been over for 20 years. But, governor, when it comes to seem to want to import just like the social politics of the 1950s and the economic policies of the 1920s. First of all it isnt something i proposed. Its Something Congress proposed. Will not happen. The budget we are talking about is not reducing our military spending. Its maintaining it. But i think governor romney maybe hasnt spent enough time looking at how our military works. You mentioned the navy for example and we have fewer ships than 1916. Well, governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets because the nature of the military has changed. We have things called Aircraft Carriers where planes land on men and ships that goes through water, nuclear submarines. And so the question is not a game of battleship or counting ships. When i went to israel as a candidate i didnt take donors, i didnt attend fundraisers. I went to the Holocaust Museum to remind myself the nature of evil, and why our bond with israel will be unbreakable. And the fact is while we were coordinating an International Coalition to make sure the sanctions were effected, and you were still invested in a Chinese State oil company there was doing business with the irony in the oil sector. The replay when you see the exchange about the Aircraft Carrier its like the way that i might talk to my son or my daughter. It was horribly condescending. But what struck me out of that succession of the court is that much of the time president obama felt like he was arguing with mitt romney as opposed to communicating with the public at large. To me it is the same thing that mitt romney did in the second debate treating it as a debate rather than the leadership stage. It seems that obama is the one that probably erred in that direction at this time. He was more right than wrong about what he was saying about the although bailout plan. But he fell into the trap that youre talking about, when mitt romney said check the facts and the president was like well, people will check back to the its like were just wanting to get the last im pretty sure we are checking. That is the amazing thing is we talked to these guys before they go into the debate and we know that mitt romney went in with a much different mentality and posture and also Lessons Learned from the debate like obama wins a lot of lessons from the debate number one and two performance, and they know that they are close to closing the deal. They feel like if we can just get those undecided swing voters and we think its about five to 6 of the voters in the top states they believe they need to pass that plausible the threshold, and with his performance tonight there is no way that you can look at mitt romney and say he is not qualified to be president. He certainly sounded president ial. He looked president ial. You could say it isnt much of a change because they almost have exactly the same policy on every issue, which i found remarkable. I can tell you that for the first time in two years, people were sending emails that say we are going to win because they came out of this with their surge still going on, not taking it back at all. Mitt romney was able to make his point. One of the big clumps that will be played again and again from this is attacking me is not an agenda. He says it a couple times. The president tried to see the same thing to romney telling him that he was trying to change the fact and be right history. You both said it would be very difficult for mitt romney to win a debate on Foreign Policy. Do you think that he one . You have the occasion after the debate to really get the story and a fundamental judgment . What we see for the first time in the four debates, weve been treating emails on this. Both sides say that there guy is strong and closed strong. But the tashi goes to romney on this because he had the momentum going in, and this was going to be for the reasons that we talked about in that story, this was harder for him. The president tried to play the cards. He said at a point what i learned as commanderinchief, and lets take a look at the moment when mitt romney really did try to flex his muscles and give a sharp critique of president obama. The president began with what i would call an apology tour of going to various nations in the middle east and criticizing america. Then when there were dissidents in the streets of tehran, the revolution Holding Signs saying is america with us . The president was silent and i think they noticed that as well. When the president said he was going to create daylight between ourselves and israel they noticed that as well. All of these things suggested i think to be iranian mullahs we can keep the talks going on. We are going to keep spending centrifuges. Now there are some 10,000 centrifuges spending uranium, preparing to create a Nuclear Threat to the United States at the world. Thats unacceptable for us, and its essential for a president to show strength. From the very beginning to make it very clear what is acceptable and not acceptable, and an Iranian Program is not acceptable to us. They must not develop nuclear capabilities. And the way to make sure they understand that is by having from the very beginning that tightest sanctions possible. We need to be tightened. Our diplomatic isolation needs to be tougher. We need to invite Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and put the pressure on them as hard as we possibly can. Because if we do that, we wont have to take them a better reaction. Let me just respond. Nothing that governor romney just said is true starting with the notion of me apologizing. This has been probably the biggest water that has been told during the course of this campaign. Every fact checker and reporter has looked at it and the governor said this is not true and when it comes to tightening sanctions, look, as i said before, we put it being the toughest most crippling sanctions ever, and the fact is while we were coordinating International Coalition to make sure the sanctions were effective, you were still invested in a Chinese State oil company that was doing business with the iranian sector. Going back to the question of who won the debate, we have written overnight that would be the romney camp almost impossible to win because there arent big distinctions. Obviously barack obama was at his best when hes talking about his success in getting the timetable for getting out of afghanistan for having success in fighting terrorism, for expanding the program to assassinate terrorists. And so, in that context did mitt romney win . I think he might have won, i think he might have pulled out a slight decrease because hes going for the independent voters and hes going for the voters that are not watching the Chicago Bears and lions game, not watching Major League Baseball playoff action and he tried to connect with them and say i am a plausible if not better alternative to barack obama. And he definitely did his homework, came across as experienced comic and across as ready, and again i would love to see a focus group which is 5 . We say it is for every state. We are not the focus group. I totally agree with that. We are going to see pulling probably over 72 hours, 96 hours before we have a clear sense of whether the third debate matter at all. Typically they dont, right . The diminishing impact. Because the early voting. Set the stage for the viewers that are just turning in to take a pause from the debate to talk about where we are at in the campaign. It literally is a tossup coming in. Probably a tossup coming out. Both of the obama camp and the romney camp giving the slight edge to obama largely because of his performance in ohio and audio and wisconsin, where they feel he is up in each one of the states but only by nearly. There is momentum in florida, colorado. The wall street journal using the word surge as they reported the poll for the president today. And part of it is that tightening, but also the fact that hes in proving as you dig into the polls hes improving among the women and how he would handle the economy. Amazingly, the Washington Post and abc was out tonight with a poll showing the race tied for ninth period 48. Thats a wash. But also showing them almost tied and how they handle terrorism. How they would handle foreign affairs. For the commander in chief in the eyes of the voters to be on the same as mitt romney it is quite remarkable. Do we believe that ohio if you are sitting at home trying to figure out how why watch the rest of the campaign . Theres two weeks left and i am increasingly interested in the election ohio is it, right . I think its it. Theres just very few ways for me to get to 270 without it and they think a question for me is is ohio insulated from National Trend . Clearly giving romney he has gained ground. Ohios Unemployment Rate on the national average, the although bailout, popular in some key parts of the state. So does obama come as ohio follow the nation, is one of those questions we havent seen the answer. I got an email from a top person. Theres only five seats you have to watch ohio leaves obamacare honest about that. Wisconsin. Still leaning republican due to Governor Scott walkers turnout operation number three come on pilat, a mystery. Number four, nevada leads ohio, very honest and they are now saying hampshire leans towards romney, which is a change. New hampshire had been gone. We cant forget about wisconsin. I would be surprised if the polling is showing that he is up or my theory on wisconsin is is winnable and if anything close it goes to republicans. People are overestimating the conservative organizations that came together because the scott walker recall in that state i think that wisconsin even without drawing on the ticket would have been more winnable. Its a high of it is a part of the question i have my part time getting my head around it. Ohio, more so than any of the state could perhaps the exception of michigan benefited tremendously. From the although bailout. And Jonathan Florent said something before. He said romney people were being honest about the fact and being candid they couldnt win without ohio. Theyve been talking about others. Thats pretty honest and they are admitting here they are behind in ohio. Was fascinating how much the candidates wanted this debate not to be about Foreign Policy and given the similarities just about Foreign Policy. But they kept trying to bring it back to the economy and in those moments that they did you think either candidate stood out more, did they distinguish themselves . On the part when they went to the economy it seemed like they were replaying almost word for word what they need in the previous debates. The strategy was pete got to get back to this, weve got to get back to talking about it. He did a decent job in the variables being able to link the u. S. Authority and the u. S. Power in the world to the economy when we have a big debt and a weakened economy because it gives less strength in the negotiating with china trying to protect our values when our own could be suspect because we are not letting them at home i thought he was okay. When he keep up those points and the president can protect them all he wants and say they are not true all he wants, but when he landed the punches and that is what these people were looking for republicans for the first time said. Look, one final point before i go, the third debate probably matters less than the last few minutes at least of all. I do think that romney had by far the president ial closing statement. Lets go to james who is in boca raton and one of several reporters we have on the ground. Hes in the spin room where both parties have top officials trying to explain how we should interpret the results. What are you hearing . I think people kind of think it is a neutral the date and no one is going to come out much stronger or weaker as a result. Neither side seems that energetic that the one. It does seem like an inconsequential debate. Was their anything interesting that you heard . You watched the debate but did anybody come out with and emphasized specific point or try to point out a weakness on the other side that he might not have captured in watching the debate . We were talking a lot about china. Ive been chatting with the surrogates from both sides and they are trying to push the china message because they know it is something that can actually build the swing state voters in ohio which as you have been saying the campaign is really a critical state for romney to make up ground. James, we will try to get back to you before the end of the show. Mike, you are getting a lot from both campaigns trying to spin this and clearly both are saying its kind of a push. Was the most interesting thing that youre hearing from the camp obama . Saying he was strong and they are saying that he got romney fast. A takeoff from the changing his positions, being vague, all over the map literally in the case of the Foreign Policy experience. But the problem is thats depending on Fact Checkers and people to parse what is said. What matters is somebody that sitting and watching it, taking it in we talked about the winning with the sound down test. Mitt romney one that test because he looked the most president ial. Some people disagree. I got an obama email but said he looked like nixon only sweatier but he didnt fall when the last track he did. The president s snarky mess isnt going to play well with that audience. Lets take the audience inside of the reporting. I will do romney and you can do obama and we can flip on with the view is two weeks out after the debate. From their romney view is we are slightly behind but much better position than we dreamed of being a month ago. We love the fact that we have more money than democrats have to spend in the final weeks of the campaign. We like the trend lines in places like florida. We like whats happening in colorado that the numbers look better than they anticipated early on. They think they can win virginia. They believe that there is a possibility to organizations and through some last minute momentum they can win ohio but if they dont win ohio they might be able to run the table by taking places like iowa, wisconsin, new hampshire, even pennsylvania is a very, very long shot. And redirecting the map that we think of. So they are not super confident we more confident than they were a month ago. Team obama . Theyve put this very brilliantly today. They put it as momentum verses the map. So you were talking about momentum and we were talking about mitt romney being on the offense. Ive got the map. I am on defense, but i have ohio, which might be all that i need, and the great analogy that was in that story was put it this is similar to the spring in 2008 . Mitt romneys primary contest when Hillary Clinton was having late momentum, but as they put it in the story, she ran into the cold hard electoral math and a superior obama organization. And obama is going to say that in ohio and some of these other crucial states to have a better organization. I tell you, i will take a bombing and you can take the romney camp, the scene that worries me right now coming and you can do the what worries you for romney. If you or obama you got to be worried. Youre very worried about the momentum. You dont think it is as strong as the polls suggest that you have seen the momentum going before. You are wondering what is that all about. You were a little bit that all of this money that used in the end of this time trying to vitre mitt romney is this evil dark capitalist that flipflops has suddenly been eroded a little bit by the debate performances which they can see at least very plausible as a possible president ial candidate and you wonder those people that havent broken one way or the other after the debates they look at them and say im ready for change and and that he is at a plausibly better alternative than barack obama and we talked about this on the show for months that its always been the quest of the romney folks. We are never going to be emphatically the choice of people. We are never going to be the trees of the people of barack obama. We have to be plausibly the choice. If i am romney im worried about the fact i can have all the momentum i want and the poll numbers i want but if i cant know how you and i am worried about virginia, it doesnt matter. Those are the way the rules of the game or set up. And they are still real signs of cancer for romney. He should be doing much better in the ballett than he is. High unemployment, high foreclosures, lots of mormons. He hasnt closed the deal in florida. He still had to spend money in north carolina. They cant be sure about virginia. All those are big problems. We are two weeks out and neither candidate, they say the same thing, the cat out lined with would actually do if elected president in the second term and given there are two weeks left, we have now officially given up any hope that that is ever going to happen so you are just going to have to sort of look at what they said in the the date and read between the lines and get a general understanding of what their political philosophies are and some of the stuff theyve done in the past to get an indicator. The one we talked about all the time is its more important to look at their character any way. And the sure sign of this is back in 2008 when we had hillary and obama going after each other the huge difference in their health care plans. We spend months covering it. The president gets into office and he basically passes the Hillary Health care plan. So its more important to think about 3 a. M. Phone call question. We are bringing in lowest it has been with us at all of the dates and here watching some of them with the editors. What was your take on the debate . Did you see a clear winner . How do you think this will play out in the next 24 hours as people interpret what happened tonight . I think we need to see, as you were saying earlier, whether some of obamas comments in the playing a little badly. But i was watching a focus group and didnt play badly on the focus group. People were laughing quite a bit. I think republicans believe that he embraced the president a little too much. He was talking to close to him because he didnt want to be snarky and be too aggressive as last time to read so the question is was it a little bit too much . Did he not differentiate enough for people to see the alternative. He made the calculation. Lets bring rachel, one of the dozen reporters that we have that the debate. You are in the spin room. What are you hearing from both camps other than it seems like both sides are saying we won. But other than that cut through it, what is the sharpest argument you are hearing from both sides . Sure. That is the argument. It was interesting in terms of the object the romney people came in with their big red signs before the date was over i would say a good ten minutes before the debate ended