Transcripts For CSPAN2 Tonight From Washington 20110812

for west. he is the author of "johnny appleseed: the man, the myth, the american story". he spoke at urbana university in ohio for 45 minutes. >> i am the director of the johnny appleseed society. we are located for this program in the johnny appleseed educational center and museum at historic bailey hall at the university. we are here to listen to howard means talk about his brand new book, he has written a biography of john chapman and is here to tell us all about it. the name of the book is "johnny appleseed: the man, the myth, the american story". so i welcome howard. [applause] >> thank you very much. my book was published only five days ago. since then i have done some taping sessions with nationally syndicated radio shows that this is the first live event for johnny appleseed and couldn't happen in a more appropriate place not only because we're in the newly renovated johnny appleseed educational center and museum. joe was one of the first people i contacted agreed to publish the book. joe besecker has been a terrific held from day one. one of the johnny appleseed society trustees, parter humphrey who is sitting at the end of this row. if you don't know who he is he has done wonderful research into the roots of john chapman introduction to emanual swedenborgian and once i latched onto him, arthur might be more inclined to think of a blood sucking parasite but still he was very generous with his time and knowledge. while i am digressing i should also add that one of the problems i face in this book from the beginning was to refer to its title character as john chapman and when to refer to him as johnny appleseed. in general colombia to refers to the historical figure while appleseed to the myth that he became the the two are so intertwined that the distinction gets worse than misty but that is generally what i am trying to hold to in these comments. back to where we are, urbana the city and urbana the university. as all of you know bursting with chapman appleseed connections. urbana was where chapman met with attorney john james to discuss possible legal proceedings concerning one of his orchards. one of those rare moments when the historical figure steps out from behind the curtain and lets us have a good look at him. chapman paced the room as he talked and chewed on nuts. john james -- in 1850 as the only swedenborgian affiliated west of the alleghenies. the fulfillment of a dream long held by john chapman. the first president of the college was well acquainted with chapman and shared many common interests with him and reportedly committed to paper what almost certainly would have been the most weighty and illuminating manuscripts -- portrait of chapman by any of his contemporaries but that has gone missing. as so many things have gone missing, so many moments you can't quite find the document. maybe you all have documents in your home for as and if so let me know. johnny appleseed complex when we were meeting today is located in the combined daily and barkley halls. your printed generally considered the father of the new church in america and the sister-in-law to john young who arthur has shown convincingly almost certainly gave johnny appleseed his first taste of swedenborgian. it crawls with connections direct and indirect. for me the most rewarding of the mall is the fact that this museum happens to be the repository of the papers of florence murdoch the longtime secretary of the new church library in cincinnati because it was in those papers that are was able to trace the history of how johnny appleseed made his film debut. the story begins with december of 1944 letter to murdoch from a librarian at the indiana historical society. the library and wanted to let murdoch know that two studios, mgm and disney had been asking about johnny appleseed. of the two the library conferred disney's take on the job but was not certain. are only trust she wrote that they do not do something peculiar and horrible. movies so often do. three years later with the mgm movie scrapped an disney's animated version of johnny's life headed to fetus nationwide murdoch was convinced something peculiar and horrible was exactly what the walt disney studio had done and on may 26, 1948, the day before the cartoon classic, the time was released murdoch wrote walt disney to correct the error of his ways. the letter begins on a high note but murdoch praising the studio for celebrating johnny's blessings free love and faith in an apple tree. then it grows more heated. the movie showed sunni goaded on to greatness by a sourpuss apparition in a coonskin cap, johnny's guardian angel and for murdoch that was playing too fast and loose with the spirit world that was central to swedenborg, the advertisements we have seen indicate the subject is treated in a relatively conservative manner. except for that extraordinarily grotesque figure of a guardian angel we are curious to know what process of reasoning your studio arrived at this strange conception. what to do? murdoch had several suggestions. keep in mind this is one day before the movie was to be released. too late to make a change? perhaps substituting the figure of a child if a traditional angel would seem out of place or if that is impossible could not the name be changed from guardian angel to spirit of the frontier? let me digress again. anybody here ever meet florence and murdoch? in the course of doing this i have the vision of her as one of the stalwart types going forward this high and very buxom and always work complete the blue dresses with little -- used to be stuck in my mind that way. disney never -- murdoch requested never made. that is probably just as well because without his guardian angel disney's johnny appleseed never would have gathered the gumption to leave his nonexistent farm near pittsburgh much less across the ohio river into the wilderness of the northwest territory. in disney's the old settler johnny appleseed and johnny's angel johnny is, quote, such a sawed off scrawny fellow despite being by all accounts exactly the average height of his time at 5 foot 9 inches and notwithstanding the fact he walked across the mountains of pennsylvania, survived a brutal winters in a hostile environment and, quote, ain't got the muscle or bread of chest, ludicrous on the face of it to join the parade heading west. there is not even a hint of the intellectual depth and intensity that john chapman would have needed to wrestle his way into swedenborg's troops as he obviously did but that is hollywood. my 5-year-old grandson adored the cartoon as 5-year-olds have been doing for six decades. what is more the disney studio took the appleseed myth and pushed it over the top the story line was already headed that way and studio executives were more than prepared to defend their work. in a lengthy response to florence murdoch dated june 23rd, 1948, and on the wall behind me, one of the wonderful treasures of this museum. the manager at disney's story department explained how the animated film particularly johnnie's guardian angel came to be. johnny was a simple and unassuming man. he believed his mission of planting trees in the wilderness to be divinely inspired and firmly believed in the direct physical manifestation of heavenly being upon the earth. does it would seem to follow johnny's divine interpretation might take the form of a frontier angel. he didn't stop there. we believe he concluded that our interpretation of the johnny appleseed story though presented with a certain whimsical humor is the nearest approach to a sermon on the subject of brotherly love and unselfishness ever attempted in our medium of entertainment. i can't disagree with that. the cartoon short is exactly what he described. a sweet sermon on brotherly love. as happens with a lot of sermons the men on which it is built disappear completely with the truth being manifested. that is where this book began because it is where i began. i was one of those 5-year-olds who learned about johnny appleseed from the walt disney cartoon treatment. this is the johnny appleseed i knew in 1989--try was 5 years old when a friend for as suggested i take on this project. two dozen years between now and then might suggest i didn't exactly jump at the idea. other work had priority and why take autobiography of such a known quantity? i did nibble at the prospect off and on and as i did the story got richer and richer and july felt compelled to jump into it. there was the obvious discrepancy between john chapman and johnny appleseed the man and a miss. robert price newspapers that will soon be part of the archives of this museum and learning center plans to tackle the subject masterfully half century earlier but i have been unable to add to that story. what is more that need is far greater now large part to the legacy of the disney cartoon version of johnny appleseed's life which is basically obliterated on chapman from american memory. thanks to john zombie i was able to do some polling for this book. 58% of adult americans fought the johnny appleseed ever existed or had any historical antecedent and fewer than one of four americans could identify the right half century in which he had done his planting and the right part of the country particularly two states where he spent most of his adult life. i also did some asking around among very well-educated friends of mine. who is chapman? my favorite answer is the guy that murdered john lennon. that was mark david chapman. an end i concluded johnny appleseed might be the best known american about whom most americans know almost nothing at all. i should have also thanks to john zombie and his firms on the international all that polling data including pages of demographic breakdowns is now in the position of this museum and education center which is where it belongs. there's the sheer mystery of it all has i think about doing this book. thanks to a whole host of researchers including the other indomitable florence florence wheeler who finally nailed down the chapman genealogy we have these tantalizing hints of john chapman. we know where and when he was born. we know more or less where he died though a case can be made that whoever is in turn at the chapman appleseed grave site is not john chapman. we have promissory notes and apple orders in his hand and wonderful trading post ledger in pennsylvania that shows chapman purchase, quote, two small histories shortly after crossing the alleghenies with his brother nathaniel in the early 1797. but histories of what? british royalty? ancient rome? ancient heroin? greece? no way to know. trying to penetrate their history made writing the book almost irresistible ads did let's be honest the sheer weirdness of its principal character. the mid-19th century historian norton called chapman the artist character in all history and he was every bit of that. i read in my book that he, quote, had the eye of the speculators, the heart of a philanthropist, courage of our frontiers and and the wondering instincts of a bedouin nomads. in fact he had a self canceling nature. he won his land but could never settle down on it. he ran a far-flung nursery business and worked as hard as anyone could and gave away half his stock and a fair percentage of his thin profits. here is the larger point. the nineteenth century ohio was filled with characters, pioneers who built homes inside trees. legendary boozers. rogues' gallery of eccentrics. what really struck me was among all these people chapman's eccentricity stood out as if painted neon purple. everyone knew him. everyone realized what a singular person he was yet he seems to have been among the most beloved people on the frontier. that line of exploration in the context of the times is where the story deepened for me. how westward expansion became dammed up at the ohio river. the fact that the northwest territory was the huge real-estate event waiting to happen when chapman arrived on the shores of the river at the end of the 18th-century. the way the second great awakening swept over all of this with meetings that drew 20,000 people and often involve as many as two dozen creatures from a rainbow coalition splintering and reforming christian denominations. john chapman lived an often lonely life deep in the woods but was also an integral part of all these forces crawling around him as nurser tha time john cha among how many of you clear, you know as much or far more about swedenborg's and i do. i will spare you my ignorance. the story of swedenborg himself told about his migration from scientist and mystic is so rich i can't resist retelling it. maybe this is well known so i apologize for repeating the story. he was having dinner by himself late in the evening at a london chop house in 1745. when the room suddenly went dark and the 4 began arriving with snakes. swedenborg looked to the corner of the room and saw an old man sitting there and offered in four words of stern advice. don't eat so much then disappeared as the returned to light. later that night the same man reappeared to swedenborg in a dream identified himself as god and began revealing a hidden truths of the bible. who can resist a story like that? that is what happened time and again. something unique was waiting around every corner. that gets me to the mythic character johnny appleseed himself and the final interest -- mystery of john chapman. the book is subtitled "johnny appleseed: the man, the myth, the american story" because i hope i adequately show that the myth of johnny appleseed keeps getting reinvented generation by generation. in the late 1800'ss and early 1900s he was a symbol of american innocence. a time before the civil war ravaged the land and native americans had been driven into does more reservations and western expansion swept away the suppose even the country had once been. two decades later after the christian temperance union laid siege to hard cider johnny re-emerged as spokesman for the healthful properties rather than the inebriating one of america's favorite fruit. in the 1900s the disney studio turned johnny into a sermon on brotherly love and selfishness. advertisement in the 1950s and 60s praised his financial shrewdness. since his refinances were a complete mess. by the mid-1970ss so-called johnny appleseed traipsing around the countryside selling canada seeds -- sowing cannabis seeds. so this constant reinvention continues into our own time and distinctly modern interests in scaling back, going local and preserving this wonderful creation we have been handed. two centuries before there was a simplicity movement john chapman created a life style that was simplicity itself. a level of consumption that would drive the national economy back to a barter system. the occasional school, rare tavern meal or night under a rented room for. the swedenborg books. that was all the earth's resources he seems to have needed and the books he recycle did fairly well. johnny didn't merely live the land. he barely touched it even though he walked it constantly. it is a gift to be simple and free, and give to come down where you ought to be the old shaker hymn goes and when we find ourselves in a place just write it will be in the valley of love and the like. could there be a better 42 word summary of john chapman's life? long before all but a handful of people realize what a fragile creations this earth is chapman and appleseed were there too, when nature as if she were a newborn baby and that might be the greatest gift of our own time. john chapman had scripture urging among not only the bible but swedenborg. all things in the world exists from the divine origin closed with such forms in nature as enable them to exist and perfect their use and correspond to higher things but however it came to be by god's hand or nothing more than a cosmic accident and whatever label one comes to the challenge, environmentalism, secular, planetary survival, this whirling global need someone to show how to love it better and as he always was in life johnny appleseed is waiting out there even now at that razor-thin line between present and future, man and myth, real and the imagined ready to lead the way. a lot of factors propelled chapman into appleseed, man and myth. the natural tendency to exaggerate a good story, the times and the fact that so few fred held the man to the real world. i also think john chapman -- this dawned on me as i was working on the book. john chapman himself played a central role in the transformation. he liked to tell stories about himself. his hairbreadth escapes and amazing stamina. he was his own wandering minstrel. while he talked about many subjects especially for an essential loner the one thing john chapman never talked about were the actual details of his life. he was well-known in fort wayne when he died in 1845. he had been living in and around the place for more than a decade and married in an obituary. how old he might have been, the obituary writer clearly had no clue. and no clue to where he had been born or where he lived before coming to indiana except the vague sense it was somewhere in a high of. he lived in the area of cleveland and while chapman can associate it with 16 counts in ohio cleveland is not one of them. that is how it was all the way along with john chapman. people recalls his heroic feats. a marathon like run through the night forced of indian raiders. legendary acts of kindness rescuing abuse forces and giving a few bits of clothing to pioneers even worse off than he was. they knew him as a virtual st.. age on the baptist of the wilderness. about the essential man they knew almost nothing. it is as if john chapman was rehearsing for the part of johnny appleseed all along. if i might i would like to read this short epilogue with which i close the book and promise it won't spoil the story or take too long. the epilogue is called by johnny. a close friend, a lawyer has a vision of john chapman building is in closures, planting his seeds and twirling the whole night long in raptors concord with whatever he conceived of as the universal divine. i can see that. chapman or appleseed might have out swedenborged swedenborg. god talked for him through every we've and rock and every atom of creation. how could he not twirl in beloit? his famous loneliness might not have been so lonely after all. as william dean howells once wrote, quote, if his believe was true and we are surrounded by spirits, evil or good which are evil or good behavior in fights the beam of our companies and this harmless, loving half crazy man walked daily with the angels of god. i can see henry david thoreau in chapman. two children new england living deliberately in nature. at the very moment john chapman lay dying in fort worth henry david thoreau was digging foundations for his celebrated cabinet bolden. for all his intellectual independence henry david thoreau never cut the lifeline. walden was within easy walking distance of the world he had always known. even as he was rhapsodizing of life in the woods henry david thoreau was carrying laundry home to his mother. not so chapman. from his 20s on he had no tether left. in article for the december 1979 american heritage magazine edward hoagland suggested chapman left the diary behind him might be compared to john james audubon or george catlin, the indian portraitist. i like that. certainly a diary would not have been wet henry david thoreau's writings were. a critique of the industrial revolution. chapman lived his critique. the nature he left gave himself over to and vibrated through his entire being like walt whitman. years ago i spent a long night with the washington d.c. emergency psychiatric response team. heroic men and women tending to the certifiably insane who had been institutionalized for a very hospitals. most of those they treated that might reliving in the city's parks short walk from the capital. these are women convinced they had been castrated by demons. men essentially baying at the mission. one man told me when he walked down the street and saw the stars overhead he was convinced each star was part of an intergalactic space fleet that was looking to him for direction. if i turn right they will turn right. if i turn left they will turn left. what if i turn the wrong way? we found him paralyzed in the middle of an intersection. the sky was filled with stars. i can't help but recall those people when i think of johnny appleseed. they were dressed roughly the same. odd bits of castoff clothing sometimes with meaning. they smelled horribly as chapman probably did. their brains were on fire. occasionally their eyes almost glowed as they talked as his were said to. by modern definitions john chapman almost sternly was in sane. if you talk to god it is for. if god talks to you it is schizophrenia. i think of the woods that surround the office where i wrote much of this book how light shines through the trees and woody simple choi is to turn away from these words and walk among black walnuts and locusts beyond my windows beckoning me to join them. there is a pleasure in the woods lord byron wrote in child harold. there is a society where none in truth. so it was for john chapman. to go easy in this busy world and walk those woods and feel the sunlight on your skin and shine and the simple as johnny appleseed to me. that is what i have to say. i will be glad to take any questions anyone has and there will be some. i actually am going to throw out the first question. i have been somewhat criticized in print and perhaps rightly so for suggesting he was almost certainly in sane. does that strike those of you who know the story almost as well as i do as completely over the top? anyone want to venture an opinion on that? i am sorry. [inaudible] >> the impression we have of john is probably a lot like a lot of people in our lives that aren't normal or typical but at the same time operate in society and not certifiably insane but maybe instead someone who operates differently. and autistic person. >> that might have been the real problem. it is a word that i threw around too casually perhaps. it sold 500 copies. what am i going to do? live with that i think. we have a mike over here. might want to start with a question. >> i have been studying john probably twice as long as you did. i am fascinated that you seem to have found twice as much information that i have in half as much time you were dedicating yourself. i was curious how many trips did you make and how many places did you go and how many years did you the vote because this is non-fiction and you needed to do research into things that are not that well-known and curious how you did that. >> this book started in 1989 when a friend said to me what to write a biography of john chapman, johnny appleseed. i thought i hadn't done anything about it but when i started going through my files i have told things like lexus nexus. those old printers that have things you have to tear off on the side. horrible equipment. in terms of the actual writing that part was probably 14 or 15 months. the research was double that. .. i had been driving across the alleghenies and the pennsylvania turnpike for years, no trouble at all. any get out use dr. carney look over the edge and you say. just thinking about it. so that is part of it. and then, frankly google has made life so much easier. every county in ohio i think i can safely say and indiana has a history of the county between 1855 and 1880 and often two or three google has digitized all of these histories and i have thought when i started doing this i was expending month at the library of congress. which for me is about a 65 minute -- a 65-mile drive and 130 round-trip and you have to take the metro down to the library of congress and sit there and you have to wait 45 minutes at a bare minimum while they get your books and bring them back up. i just for months of my life disappeared to the library of congress. it is a great place by the way if you have never been there. please go. is digitize and you find a book you want come you press a button and it is on-demand printing. arthur holberg, arthur davis holberg what is his name? had this wonderful 11 by emma history of transportation of america. it is magnificent stuff and for 15 bucks it shows up at your door five days later. pretty amazing stuff. anyone else? please. i think the microphone is coming your way. >> i wondered if in your exploration of material available like the murdoch records here and other places you have been, did you sense that there is much else that that has not been discovered that some other writer might come along and say, i wonder what else is new that i haven't known about just yet, but that is yet to be discovered and written about? >> i think there definitely is. for example, one of the things i was hoping so much, i think there's a chance that he was baptized by william hargrove, the baltimore -- baltimore new church preacher in brownsville pennsylvania in 1806 or 1807. i can't remember which year. 1806, thank you. of baptism that took place in the river and there were 30 or 40 people. so, it turns out hargrove's papers are in theory that the frank something something, can't think of the library, the historical society in baltimore -- i go there and i open up his journals and it has 1806. the reference was -- i looked in the back upon's john chapman and the page corresponded and i knew he recorded the names of all those people he baptized. well this was john something chapman who live somewhere else. they were john chapman's over the place. part of the problem is chapman's cat naming each other john and nathaniel. it drive you crazy and all the females are elizabeth. they are all over the place. so that, and then i had, then i had a cup of coffee two months ago. kevin baxter who graduated from this institution. kevin said you know that could ea repository in monterey, california. by then it was too late for me to find it. but, i think that the library people have done a spectacular job, but you know there is more. there is always more. i mean, look at the letter that elizabeth chapman wrote to her husband on her deathbed essentially in 1776, may of 1776. a spectacular letter that didn't come to -- 150 odd years so there of are letters lying in trunks around here not maybe by chapman but by those who knew him. and somewhere is the milo williams manuscript and milo williams manuscript is a motherload for those who want to pursue this. sally, you have got to find it. i couldn't. i just couldn't find it. anyone else? >> john was known as a storyteller. what was your favorite story that you included in the bible -- not the bible, in the book? >> the favorite story? well, he told it but others told the too. it was the story of the mansfield to mount vernon run. do you know that one? oh, k.. the years 1812. there has been -- the indians are, the war of 1812. petrides are making common cause for the british or everybody thinks. there is an event that takes place, horrible event that takes place in mansfield actually. they are rounding up green tree indians to send them to this very place, right here, green town indians to send them so they will be out of the british -- so they can sign them up for the cause. they march them two miles away and they interthem and they march them and burn their village. one girl, 12 years old i think she is, happens to be visiting from another tribe. her father comes to take her away and they shoot the father and they him and they scalp him. the soldiers are drinking whiskey out of his scalp. it is a scene beyond description in terms of horror and of course they were avenging -- of venice, bands, events, events, cycle. so word comes the indians are on the warpath. meanwhile, the american -- the garrison of soldiers and mount vernon sent their troops to march these indians tour bonna -- urban. there is not enough protection so they have this meeting, and i have to find us in the book. they have this meeting and somebody has to go warn the people and mount vernon. this clear-eyed man bravely steps forward and says, i will do it. he runs presumably through the night and stopping at all the taverns along the way. can you wait? let me see if i can find his real quickly because it is wonderful. he said one of two things while he was doing this and if i can find is quickly enough, which i probably can't. rats. give me just one second. here it is, here it is. yes. so, he runs from -- he leaves mansfield about 6:00 at night in the dark. he runs to the dark all the way to mount vernon, which happens to be almost exactly 26 miles. by a miracle, the marathon for liberties and the plains of marathon. then he might've run back again. some accounts have them running back again. he told the stories himself. he didn't mind telling the stories but what was wonderful, there were two different memories of what he said. he would stop at every cabin and one pioneer son remembered him screaming, fly, fly for your lives, the indians are murdering and scalping in mansfield. someone remembered him calling out this message. the spirit of the lord is upon men and his anointed me to blow the chump at in the wilderness and sound an alarm in the forest, for the whole the tribes of the heathen are around about your doors and devouring flames follow after them. imagine saying that after running 15 miles. and apparently he set a time and again. he didn't have to say it on the way back. could he have done it? ultramarathon as ever and 52 miles in six hours. he had 11 hours. nobody knew the woods better than he did. he was 38 years old at the time i believe and in excellent physical condition so with all the stories, there's the possibility that something is true about them. another one he liked to tell was he escaped indians by pulling his canoe onto a passing ice floe in the allegheny river and the next thing he knew, he was so relaxed he fell asleep in the canoe 100 miles down river. he finally pushed his canoe often comes back up. he told that story a lot. so that is why, as there was doing this he came upon me more and more that there's a certain complicity in the myth and i don't know but i speculate in the book and if you have read it i speculate in the book that well, how do i put it? in order for the myth to be borne the man had to die in a way. and there was nothing holding him to his family. he had his father, well his father died two years after he moved to ohio but his stepmother in the lunch of half brothers and sisters were living only 80 miles away in northern marietta in the duck creek settlement near what is now dexter city i think. 80 miles was an afternoon stroll for johnny appleseed. and while they have all these histories of people in all these counties there is a wonderful history of washington county were all this took place. there is no mention of john chapman, johnny appleseed and everybody else appears in it which leads me to believe he never went back to visit his family. so i don't know what it was. there are a bunch of possible reasons for that. anyone else, please? i've could drone on for hours. [laughter] sally, yes please. >> i was kind of curious did anybody ever. [inaudible] so being swedenborgian anyone who didn't claim him as one of their own but just as part of their communities in a sense as he did stay with people a lot? >> you know there is a story somewhere. no, that was a universal unitarian universalist -- universalist who we got very mad at him through his book at him. no, no the quakers wind in and out of the story but no. i never saw any evidence of that. that is another -- that is another thing to be discovered. to just open this up, that was a wonderful part about writing this book. every time you turn out -- turnover rockers another story to be told. we were talking about it earlier, all the sort of family connections. john chapman's mother, first cousin was a guy who became known as count rumford and as fascinating a character as you are likely to find. a sort of amoral benjamin franklin. an absolute genius who also was a complete -- but you know, i ended up cutting pages and pages out of the final manuscript. i would get so fascinated by these people and you can only tell so much of the story. eyes on the prize is my wife kept reminding me. anyone else? yes? back there. >> is there any mention in your book about his feelings about nature? i remember there was a story about a rattlesnake and not killing mosquitoes around the campfire? >> thanks for mentioning that. yet this hindu ascetic law to him and again these are stories that i should've mentioned. the famous story where he presumably stepped on a rattlesnake and a rattlesnake bit him and he dug his side into it and came back instinctively and he came back and said the only recorded distance of killing an animal and he came back and saw dead on the ground. he was devastated by what he had done. the other story about putting out the fire so the mosquitoes wouldn't be burned. you and i are pushing them towards the fire. he doused the fire. so no, there was this peer animistic quality. as i tried to say and the epilogue, he really did -- another story. why he planted apples by sea. he talked about this. because the apple them seals the -- as surely as the human limb doesn't so you can only plant by sea. in. in fact is a very inefficient way to plant apples because you know apple seeds themselves are heterozygous. am i pronouncing that correctly? it means every appleseed contains the genetic material for every body if apple ever made, so if you plant in appleseed, if you have a delicious gala apple and save the seeds and put them in the ground your chances of getting a gala apple from the tree are about one in 100,000. and what's more, apple trees when you plant a seed referred to their native state and their native state of central asia, where they had to do great data with this canopy. they would grow to 70 feet sometimes and it would take 30 years to produce a crop. it is not a very efficient way to plant apples that but many of you know michael pollock's take on all of that. he was the frontier bootlegger, unintentionally. it is an interesting story and people certainly come apples were primarily putting -- put to the use of making hard cider and vinegar. i don't think there is any intention to it. and of course he was selling the seeds and not selling apples. it was a dollar store business. pile them high and watch them fly, sold them for pennies. not a bad motto. any other questions? let me say just one little pitch at the end and then i will be quiet. i just want to close by saying how lucky i have been with this book, lucky with the help i've gotten from people like joe joan arthur over here, arthur's cousin jeanie woodson from a publisher simon & shuster, editor alice who were bound and determined this would not be only good but a beautiful book. i happen to think the cover is a beautiful cover. the papers be the one they did everything just right. the maps add enormously to the story and best of all from my point of view there are nine originalist rations in this book that are absolutely magnificent and they were all done by my daughter. and so thank you very during this. i appreciate it very much. [applause] >> throughout this month you can watch c-span2's booktv every night of prime-time. now a look at the life of 19th century frontiersmen and politician, davy crockett. michael wallis is the author of sub.-- "david crockett" the lion of the west. he recently gave a talk at the tattered cover bookstore in denver. this is one hour. >> thank you so much. it is great to be with you and it is wonderful to come into a city where there is rain. [laughter] i live, and my wife suzanne who is with me and we'll be here later, we live in have lived for some years in tulsa, oklahoma where there is money of water and woods. it is a very clean place, but like the rest of this nation it has been stricken and temperatures in triple digits for many many days. that is the way it has been for most of the summer because we are now and the last leg of this national book tour. we have been all over the country. deep into the eastern united states on the other side of the mississippi, where i sometimes go, and all over the southwest and the west, where i prefer to be in a missourian. a native of missouri, have always look the west down the santa fe trail down the emigrant trails. route 66, the mother road so this is the part of the country that i do like the best, and when i declared my major if you will, as a writer, it was about the american west. not just cowboys and indians, not just the west that old or conjure up when they hear that word, but the contemporary west as well. the pop-culture west, the contemporary west. so, tonight i am delighted to be here, as always. have always had a great experience at tattered cover. this location or the other. i was just saying to someone before the event started, on this particular tour we have had 40 some odd book signings and defense and only one of them has been in a chain bookstore and i am very happy about that, very happy. [applause] chains are important to me, but independent bookstores are more important to me. the independent bookstores are like my route 66. the chain bookstores are like the turnpikes and interstate highways that i have to take. i prefer to be on the old road, the genuine, the authentic, the personal. so, tonight i am in this unusual position of really presenting three books, two of them brand-new books, not just crockett, not just david crockett but also the wild west 365 from abrams, another brand-new book. and then to reissue, my rascal son right here in the center, pretty boy charles arthur floyd. the pretty boy book is not brand-new. was originally published many years ago but unfortunately it has been out of print until now, until now meaning my editor the original editor robert wild, probably in my opinion the best nonfiction editor in the country, move from saint martin's, my old house, to norton, great house by the way. and he brought pretty boy back. it is important to me because it was the second of my three pulitzer prize nominations. it is a book that definitely needs to be back in print and it has been optioned for a major motion picture, as has my more recent biography of really the kid, another norton title. so i would be remiss if i wouldn't share with you at least a spoonful from his rascal son, from charlie floyd, who hated to be called pretty boy. this is really the social history. where this book ends, steinbeck 's "the grapes of wrath" begins. so you go from nonfiction to faction -- fiction. if you have read "the grapes of wrath" which i seem you have at least once, eric you are planning to reread, you know talk about charlie floyd in the book because they came down and sequoia county, down in little dixie in oklahoma where floyd resided. they also of course, charlie was also the subject of a wonderful song, the ballad of "pretty boy" floyd written by an oklahoman that all of you will probably remember from some of his great songs. i'm talking about woody guthrie and his ballad of ricky boy floyd, of course he gave them to joan baez and bob dylan. there is a great line that sets this book from the ballad of "pretty boy" floyd. some men will rob you with a six gun and some with a fountain pen. now floyd likes to focus on those fountain pens thieves, those bankers who were for closing on others. he truly was, came to find, which to my surprise and actually to my glee he was a sagebrush robin hood. a very interesting unmanned. so let me give you the spoonful if i can from 30 boy, the life and times of charles austin floyd. it is the prologue to the book. it is short and a little vitter suite. the farm near clarkson, ohio, october 22, 1934. alongside every outlaw survives beyond brief days hover this nameless legion of the law does not know or may not touch. they call them protective angels if you like. and that is a quote from when the daltons road by imaging dalton. charlie floyd ran for the trees and the freedom that lay beyond. if he could just get across the field of corn stubble to the tree line, he would be safe. the weeds in the wild grape vines, the honeysuckle and the brambles would grant him yet another reprieve. he would race into the woods and down the slopes, a steep hills and across the crumbling masonry of abandoned canal locks filled with water from the recent autumn rain. he was known to some as a sagebrush robin hood and two others of the phantom terror, but he was most commonly called "pretty boy" floyd, public enemy number one. he was invincible and he always got away. the weather was warm on this october afternoon. charlie's white shirt and silk underwear with soiled and sweaty and he needed to shave and a bath. his dark blue suit was stained and covered with hundreds of tiny thistles, spanish needles which ran the length of his sleeves and trousers. he was a country boy, dressed in a city slicker's close. a farmer's wife had given him ginger cookies and apples that morning and he stuffed them in his suit coat pockets. he grabs a 45 pistol in one hand while his other pistol was talked in the top of his trousers. moments before he had -- with stewart and his wife florence. the farm couple had kindly agreed to give him a lift up the road a ways and their automobile away from the farm owned by his sister, ellen congo. charlie had passed an hour with her. she had sent them a hot meal and inside the farmhouse she helped the dollar bill the stranger had insisted she take in exchange for the plated spareribs. ellen congo watched him walk down the dinner she had prepared. he said in a rocking chair on her porch and ate in silence. afterward she saw him pacing around, waiting for stewart and his wife to finish with their corn husking. charlie fingered the keys in the car's ignition, deciding not to steal the machine. he waited for the farmer to come along. just before they walked out of the cornfields, charlie pulled out his pocket watch. it was almost 4:00 in the afternoon. sunset was about an hour and a half away. he stared at the 50-cent piece attached to the watch. ellen recalled that he smiled when he wrote some dirt off the cameo ring he wore. no one knows but perhaps he thought about ruby dempsey or the cotton fields of oklahoma and the times before he went on the scout. an airplane, an unusual sight in those parts in 1934 drone overhead. charlie turned his face toward the cloudy sky. the reins of the past few days had disappeared and even though it was deep in autumn, there were smells of new life in the woods for the maples showed their true colors. killing frost would give way to snow that would enrich the land. ellen conkell watched as the stranger climbed into the backseat. her sister-in-law got up front as allen's rather started his automobile. they waved goodbye and she went back to the kitchen chores. suddenly she heard machines driving up to the front of her house and the sound of car doors slamming shut. when she looked out the window again, she saw a band of men in suits carrying guns. they began fanning out over her property. the stranger jumped from her brother's car, behind the corn crib and began his run across the field toward the trees. the run only lasted a few seconds. it must have seemed forever to charlie. maybe it was like one of those dreams filled with monsters that seemed to last forever into a motion. many years later a federal agent remembered charlie ran like an athlete that he cut and dodged in a broken field sprint. cookies and apples fell from his pockets and bounced on the ground. someone yelled for him to hault and then gunfire erupted and the boland's bounced in puffs of dust around his feet are good he ran on toward the trees. he gulped den mouthfuls of freedom as he ran. chester smith, a policeman from east liverpool and a sharpshooter who would probably fought in france in belgium knew the man running away was charlie. there was no doubt in his mind. it was now 10 minutes past 4:00. smith shouldered his 32 winchester rifle. the two game at them the man burning in sig zags across the field. when he had charlie and his sites, smith wrapped his finger around the trigger. he took a breath and held it. he slowly squeezed. mr. floyd. [applause] .. because i'm pretty hard on taxes in this book, as i should be. and m. but there are reviews that my late mother could have written, and i'm pleased with that. [laughter] now, my first exposure to the mr. crockett was and american icon came, and i, for one -- and i bet some of you looking ad this room in that same boat and vividly recall, perhaps, even the exact date for. it was of frosty night for me, december the 15th 1954. my hometown of st. louis. and abc television had just aired davy crockett indian fighter, the first of three episodes produced by walt disney for his studio new series that premiered only two months earlier. it was called simply disneyland, much like the park that would soon appear in anaheim. it was called that for quite a while. there were a variety of other names, including the one who you probably most remember commonly, the wonderful world of disney, which would become one of the longest showing prime-time programs in american television history. now, that evening i myself was nine years old, but i could have predicted this show's success. i was hooked myself only moments after hearing that the music. if you want to hum along, you can. when you wish upon a star sung by the cartoon insect jiminy cricket from the soundtrack of the movie pinocchio. longtime disney announced 35 and you'll remember his voice if you think back, dick wesson, he introduced walt disney, and with some of visual assistance from a flittering tinker bell, uncle walt police to this legendary frontier character, davy crockett. i was sitting in the in style right in the middle of my mother's grave carpet in the living room. my parents behind me. all of a sudden, as if like a runaway train, crockett came crashing out of that 12 and screen tv of our 1950 table model rca victor said. and as they say, i was a goner. with only moments after this larger-than-life rocket appeared clad in buckskin and wearing, of course, that coonskin cap, i had been won over. my physical nine year old heart pounded. i must tell you, that was an incredible year. that past summer, just months before, and two separate occasions down at sea mists and bar at the mother's story now long defunct department retail store in san louis, my mother had brought me down to meet some people there on that big parking lot. and there i was. 7:00 on a saturday morning. i looked up, and it's william boyd, hopalong cassidy, standing there with that fine horse of his. i really thought he was top drawer. you know, he never lost that black cat in a fight. he always kept it on. i'd just like him very much. and then there was a 1-2 punch because the next saturday i go back down again with my mother and there is dagen run all the standing there, the cisco kid. the beautiful keep track and bridle. a great smile. the cisco kid. i did not wash my hands for two weeks. now on that december night both of those men were instantly demoted the lower rungs on my list of heroes. even, i'm here to admit -- and im st. louis all the way, i believe st. louis cardinal red to this very moment. but even stand, number six, swimming stan the man, the legendary cardinal outfielder whose name was literally s in granite at the top of that heroes list, even the man was in jeopardy of being toppled. so by that time that first episode ended, this image of crockett has betrayed by that gangly former marine from texas, the 29-year-old, firmly ensconced in my mind. i did not even consider staying up for strike it rich or i got a secret. i forgot about the promise of fresh snow and the goods letting sure to follow. instead, i made a beeline right back to my room where i pored over the world book encyclopedia entry for crockett. i dreamed of this swashbuckle there with a proclivity for dangerous behavior which, of course, as a red blooded american kid, i found it to be a most commendable quality. and, as i would later learned that next morning out in the snow when i ran into this thanks brothers and then my good pal johnny, i was not alone. they have all seen it, too. all of you have. more than 40 million people turned into disneyland that wednesday night. by the time this second episode, at davy crockett goes to congress, aired on january 16th, 1955, followed by davy crockett at the alamo, i along with much of the nation, especially the growing ranks of the boomer generation was swept up in the credit frenzy, and we wanted more and more. it came, and it came big time in the form of really an unprecedented merchandising whirlwind in which sprocket was commercialized in ways that would have been unthinkable to the man himself, although he would have liked it very much. every kid, of course, had to have a coonskin cap like davies. almost overnight the wholesale prices of recon pelts soared from $0.25 a pound to $6 a pound. it resulted in the sale of at least 10 million for recaps and causing ike eisenhower to damn near put the little beast on the endangered species list. now, with only months -- just a few months of the premier in more than $100 million, and a hundred million dollars in $1,955, was told out not just for recon gaps, but for more than 3,000 different crockett items. as some of you step up, i assure you admit you still have some of these items start to way, because they include pyjamas and lunchboxes. i know someone back there has some davy crockett underpants. [laughter] comics, moccasins, toothbrushes, games, clothing, torre rifles, sleds, curtains. goes on and on. and then there is the song, that can seat theme song. the ballad of davy crockett. it sold more than 4 million copies. remains number one on the top-10 list for 13 weeks. that spring, warm spring night may 7th, 1955, there i was back on the floor sitting indian style with my great cap on. out comes on the screen giselle mackenzie. she sings the top-10 hit of the week on your hit parade. like every one of my pals, i knew, by god, those words were all true. of course there were. but we saying his ballot at the top of our lungs as we built forts from old christmas trees and cardboard boxes and transformed the school grounds into our own version of crockett country. crockett became our obsession. now, i realize it is hard for anyone to say -- born after 1958 to recall this frenzy that swept america in the fifties. so profound was crockets cultural inundation that no baby boomer can fail to recall this charismatic american hero's name. and this recognition, to my way of thinking, is a good thing. but, the veritable flood of misinformation about crockets life that resulted, something i became very much aware of later in my life and suddenly proved while researching this book, which, in part, motivated me to watch this book and has created a crooked mythology that continues to this day. so, my good friends, this is not just another straightforward chronological biography of davy crockett cradle to grave, nor does it focus just on that one slice from the big carpet by, the alamo. there is much more to crack it than the last few weeks of his life, and it is not a regurgitation of the many myths, many, many myths, and total lies perpetuated over the years. this is a book for people interested in learning the truth or at least as much as can be uncovered about both the historical and the fictional crockett and how the too often became one. hopefully readers will gain some new historical insights into the actual man and how he captured the imagination of his generation and later as well. so, now, a few spoonfuls from crockett, the lion of the west. the first is just a graph or two from my preface. the other into david crockett was first and foremost a three-dimensional human being, a person with somewhat exaggerated hopes and will check to fierce. a man who had, as we all do, both good points and bad points. he was somewhat idiosyncratic, possessed of often unusual views, prejudices, and opinions that govern how he chose to live his life. crockett could be calculating and self aggrandizing, but also as valiant and indeed as resourceful as anyone who runs the american frontier. as a man he was both authentic and contrived. he was wise in the ways of the wilderness and most comfortable when deep in the woods on a hunt. yet, he often did hold his own in the halls of congress, a fact that distinguished him from so many other frontiers and. remarkably, he enjoyed fraternizing with men of prestige and fancy parlors of philadelphia and new york. crockett was like none other, a 19th century in england. he fought under andrew jackson call later to become jackson's bitter foe on the issue of indian -- the issue of removal of indian tribes from their homeland. crockets contradictions extended beyond politics. he had only a few months of formal education, yet he read the bard. he was neither a buffoon, nor a great intellect, but a man who was always evolving on this stage of a nation in its adolescence, a pioneer whose dreams amply reflected a restless nation with a gaze pointed toward the west. perhaps more than any one of his time david crockett was arguably our first celebrity hero, inspiring people of his own time as well as the 20th century generation. the man, david crockett, may have perished on march 6, 1836, in the final assault on the alamo, but the mythical davy crockett, now an integral part of the american psyche, perhaps more so than any other frontiers and, lives powerfully on. and this way his story then becomes far more than 51 note walt disney legend, while his life continues to shed light on the meaning of america's national character. a spoonful from a chapter entitled killed him of r -- pair. david crockett believe in the wind and in the stars, the son of timothy could read this son, the shadows, and the wild clouds full of thunder. he was comfortable amid the tickets, the quagmire is and the mountain balls. he hunted the oak, hickory, maple, and sweep down the forests that had never felt an ax blade. he was familiar with all the smells, the odor of decaying animal flesh, the aroma of the air after rain and the pungent smell of the forest. he knew the river is lined with sycamore, public, and will show that precedes the mountains through steep cited gorgeous, this train, many indian influences like the french brawl, pigeon to my public go, the watauga, kusaie, obey, wolf, elk, and the zero buyout. the dimensions of lakes in this dream's studded with age and cyprus. he learned that dark days arrive not with the heat of august, but in early july when the dogs star rises and sets with the sun. he carried his compass and maps in his head. he traversed the land when it was lush than the one times and when it was covered with the frost the cherokees' described as clouds frozen on the trees. the wilderness was, indeed, crockets cathedral. now i'm going to jump way ahead. sort of toward the end. precut live to the 49 years old. this is early in the last year of his life. he did become total loggerheads with jackson. the creeks and cherokees new a sharp knife. crockett had fought under jackson in the creek wars, so he did not like what he experienced, the atrocities, the killing, the mayhem, and he vowed never to do that again. although he did not keep that pledge. he killed 105 bears in one season. he was a professional hunter of paris, but not of men. and win jackson, who had no use for any native american came up with the indian removal lot to take those five tribes on the various trails of tears from their homelands in the southeastern united states to but is now oklahoma, indian territory, crockets stood up against it. the only member of the tennessee delegation to vote against it, and it cost him his job. jackson and the others found a candid to run against him and it took his seat. as carter explained, he was beat by a one legman. but he also came up with his famous ," which he said many, many times. you all can go to hell, and i'm going to texas. now, he didn't go down to texas out of a fit of some sort of patriotic honor or something for those rascals down there. anglos have been coming down into the republic of texas in settling with permission of the government for some years, starting with moses. but then they kept coming. there were not always abiding by the laws. the laws meeting to speak the language, spanish, join the mother church, and eventually not bring slaves. slavery was abolished in mexico long before we get around to that. but these, the gentlemen and ladies, largely seveners, a lot of land speculators and slave traders. the largest slave traders in the country kept bringing their slaves and. and this is what crockett faced when he was down there. he owned a few slaves, but he was not a big landowner. slavery was not a big part of his life or an issue. he wanted to rebuild his life. he was gypsy. he likes to hunt. he thought he keep it back into politics, so he went down there, found land. he took his own sweet time. it to come along time to get down to texas, and he was not there very long. in fact, a lot of people thought he had been killed. there were newspaper stories. was he killed? well, he was chasing bison up on the river, hunting trees. he was talking to friends. he was telling stories. he loved to tell stories. he was having whiskey. finally he got down there. and this is from a chapter called time of the comet's. finally in early 1836 crockett and his original companions bring their horses in nacogdoches, the oldest town in texas. he was reluctant to leave the good hunting grounds that he had also heard stories about the successes of his old tennessee friend, stephen austin, another land agent or impresario who had established land agencies and were on their way to becoming wealthy man. croquis believed that at last he could gain his own fortune and a place where he could haunt almost every day of the year. as one often noted, kwok -- crockett was in this state of euphoria. throughout his long ride from tennessee to taxes haley's comet, the most famous of all the celestial nomads was clearly visible, just as it is every 76 years are so. across the land people were in off when they spied the objects slowly making its way through the night sky. for centuries people believed a comet appeared as a harbinger of chaos and disaster. comments were to be feared. when pope even excommunicated haley's comet and declared it an instrument of the devil. the appearance of haley's comet in (183)510-1836 was blamed for catastrophes around the world, including the horrific fire in new york city that raised for several days and nights. the massacre of 280 people in africa by zulu warriors and wars that erupted across latin america. this seminal indians in florida saw the comments long tail as a sign of that tragedy as soon descended on them as they lost there home and were exiled to indian territory. among many americans, especially anglo texans, haley's comments signaled the impending fall of the alamo. for the tejanos, the people of mexican blood living in texas, the comment was a portent of the mexican army's defeat at san a cento. haley's comet was rediscovered in august of 1835, about the time of crockets to feed for another term in congress. it was visible for an extended time and can still be seen long enough for enterprising promoters to issue the comment almanac for 1836. it sold well, but not nearly as well as the davy crockett almanac of that year with a cover illustration of crockett waving the mississippi river on a pair of stilts. stories made their rounds in newspapers and future almanacs claiming that crockett and his nemesis, andrew jackson, head towards a truce and that old hickory had commissioned crockets to scale the alleghenies and grain the tail off of the comment before it could charge the earth. by the time the comet finally vanished in may of 1836 not to be seen again until 1910, the ashes of the alamo, the last battle of crockets life, long cold and scattered. and finally from crockets apiece from el alamo. to those who claimed that god made taxes when they say that figuratively crockett invented texas. his blood and the blood of all who died with him transformed the alamo into an american cultural icon affecting economic and political conditions in texas and beyond. the office used belt drive remember the alamo employed weeks later by sam houston to inspire his force when they captured general santa anna and defeated the mexican army at san his cento still reverberates through history and culture for many anglo texans and others, those three words conjure images of patriotic heroes, and a bass sacrifice, and love of liberty. the alamo remains the most instantly recognized battle in american history put the possible exception of gettysburg. it has been said that not until the battle of the little big horn and the death of george armstrong custer 40 years after the alamo what americans have a more vain, glorious and meant to rally around. texans also use the alamo and the revolt against mexico to establish republican a state that they believed unique and more special than any other. in 1845 when the republic of texas gave up its sovereignty to become the biggest state in the union that did so with a caveat. depending on whose interpretation of the texas constitution is followed it could secede at any time and split into five separate entities, thus creating four new states. a strong belief among many texans was that their independence, their lone star status had been bought and paid for at the alamo. crockets that sums up the single most important aspect of his brief stay in texas. his contribution to the lone star state resulted not so much from how he left, but how he died. his impact on taxes to rise precisely from his death in that battered spanish mission, and in death he turned into an even more marketable commodity and he had been in life. the alamo eventually would become the state's biggest tourist attraction and one of the most popular historic sites in the nation. crockets debt helped fuel the flames of rebellion against mexico and also made him the celebrated murder for the cause. this contributed to the creation of the prideful and sometimes bellicose stereotypical image of swagger both from texas bursting with superlatives and pride describing the land that they love. crockets demise also helped in the alamo into the cradle of texas liberty. a monument to anglo westward expansion. it became known as manifest destiny. there was a david crockett of historical facts, and there is the davy crockett of our collective imagination. the first was a man who led a most interesting and colorful life. the other is the american myth featuring crockett as a symbolic figure with superhuman powers. in this version cracking is frequently used by others to promote their own interest. both crockett and the alamo remain in snared in clouds of math. in the end the rocket was a uniquely american character and a formidable hero in his own right. he should not be judged by his death, but rather by his life, including the good, the bad, and the shades of gray. consider him a legend and a hero, but always bear in mind that he was a man willing to take a risk. that was what he symbolized, and that is how we should be remembered. mr. crockett. [applause] and last but not least, this other new book. this book is filled with all kinds of rascals sons and daughters. there are no white hats or black cats. they were all great as you will come to find out. i go on to this with my good wife, suzanne fitzgerald wallace. very pleased to acquire the services of robert mack calvin, our good power from down in the hills of santa fe, who has my favorite research library, 12,000 bucks on the american west in that old adobe. rare books, one-of-a-kind books. just intoxicating to go into the library. hundreds and hundreds of thousands of images, arguably the biggest private collection of west and photography anywhere. he supplied all the photos for my billy the kid book, and 700 of his images grace these pages, many of them never seen before. all kinds of people. it is about the size of an adobe brick, little bit smaller. if you don't like it, which i can't imagine why that would happen, you can always use it as a doorstep. but i will tell you this, don't be intimidated by it. jim billy himself, bloody billy. because you can open it literally anywhere. what we do here, 365 days. every day, every day of the year is something that actually happened on that date. but these entries, the main entries and the photos and illustrations just move chronologically in this century that i chose, 1830 to 1930. so, it begins with a rocket, and it ends with pretty boring. that 100 years. i think it would be good to give you a few spoonfuls from this book, and i was remiss if -- be remiss if i would not some of to the podium my partner in life, literature, suzanne wallis, to give you a couple spoonfuls of two of the remarkable when we are going to give you in this town. ms. wallace. [applause] [applause] >> lola montez, just after the california gold rush peaked the exotic beauty lola montez no doubt attracted by the abundance of new-found wealth captivated san francisco dandies, shocked their pram ladies, and endured the taunts of rowdy minors. her original name was marie dolores eliza brazil like gilbert. the irish native and adopted the name lola montez, became a dancer, and had a series of romantic trips with several men. she also served as the confidant and mistress of king ludwig of bavaria, a scandalous relationship that contributed to his abdication and also sent the ban is low attacking. during a tour of the united states low of arrive in california in 1853 and stayed for two years. she quickly became known for performing her famously suggested tarantula dance, and a provocative ballet in which she pretended to become entangled in the spider's web and discovered spiders hiding in the folds of her flowing down. as she waved her arms, leaped in the air, and it shook her clothing revealing her petticoats, the audiences sat spellbound. she threw lavish parties to mike gave dance lessons a-daughter who became a celebrated star of the american stage and was frequently seen in the company of her pet cinnamon bear. at the dock, 1855, lola broke into tears as he departed san francisco bound for australia. a local newspaper editorial praised her as a noble hearted and generously his many good actors when the steam of citizens. whenever lola wants, lowly gets. cynthia and parker. on may 191836 a band of indians attacked parker support on the fringes of the comanche frontier, the newly formed republic of texas. in the skirmish that followed five texans were killed, and five others were taken captive, including 9-year-old cynthia ann parker and her younger brother, john. the little girl would become one of the most renowned indian captives in the history of the west. both of the parker children quickly adjusted to the comanche culture. john became a warrior and take part in several raids, well send the and lived as a comanche for almost 25 years. she eventually married the chief and bore him two sons and the dollar -- daughter. their first son became the last great war chief of the comanches. in 1860 texas rangers led by capt so ross swept down on the comanche village killing many inhabitants and taking others captive, including the long-lost cynthia ann and her 2-year old daughter. flour. they were returned to parker family members, but her many years living with the tribe had changed irrevocably. she had nothing in common with her white relatives and beg to be returned terror indian family. her escape attempt failed, and when her daughter died of influenza and 8064 cynthia and lost all hope. broken in spirit and bitter at her enforced captivity, she starved herself to death. it was not until 46 years later that kwan of parker was able to bring the remains of his beloved mother and his baby sister from texas to oklahoma. he dedicated a great feast to honor the memory of his mother who lived and died as the comanche. [applause] [applause] >> lola did inspire that line. i thought you might enjoy this entry. a little bit of cowboy and cowgirl in all of us. it is called cowboys, and there are two great portraits of these gents right off the trail, probably in abilene. texas cowboys who had been well described, have a bit of a room on them, maybe a little pomade. they have gotten their favorite dish that kaelin was always want to get that they long for on the trail, either chops' we are some eggs. they probably had a tumble to end the hate and some good, hard whiskey. this is cowboys. some historians claim the workout was first used in medieval ireland to describe boys who tended cattle. others say the name was bandied about in early america when youngsters such as daniel boone and lady -- later davy crockett herded crowns. even so only after the civil war did the term cowboy come into use. the heyday of the genuine cowboys was brief. it became in -- it began in 1865 when texans returned home after serving the confederacy pour in cash but rich in a range lands teeming with ubiquitous long arms. prior to the were those who hitch rail were usually known as drovers. in the early 1860's -- 1860's texas rangers used the term cowboy as they gathered unbranded rob longhorns during roundups, first of cowhides. by about 1870 branches hired youngsters whom they generally referred to as cowboys to herd cattle up the trails to north railheads in markets. some only 12 to 16 years old and barely big enough to climb into saddle. not everyone approved of such work. parents, do not allow your boys to love themselves down with mexican spurs, six shooters, and pipes, warned a reporter. keep them off the prairies as professional cal hunters. they're in that occupation who knows, but they may forget that there is a distinction between mind and signed. send them to school, teach them a trade or keep them at home. that was written a long time before willie nelson. i think just one more spoonful. very near the end of that century that we chronicled. it is called simply adios why it. white shirt and josephine, grow from a prominent jewish family in san francisco lived as husband and wife for nearly 50 years. the couple was the classic case of opposite temperaments complementing each other. herb was quiet and reserved, while his wife was fiery. still, they remained devoted to each other to the end. perp, that end came in los angeles just a few minutes past 8:00 a.m. on january 13th 1929. the old lawman died quietly. jersey later wrote in her published recollections, my darling had breached his last, dying peacefully without a struggle like a baby going to sleep. i don't know how long i continued to hold him in my arms. i would not let him go. he finally had to drag me away. i had gone with him on every trail he had ever taken since those days it tombstone so long ago. included among his honorary pallbearers were cowboy movie heroes william s. hart and tom next. his ashes were buried in a jewish cemetery just south of san francisco. when jay z died in 1944 she was laid to rest with her husband. cowboys often come to pay their respects. they would off there hats and stand on the manicured grass surrounded by tombstones, topped with menorahs and stars of david. a world away from the blood and smoke of the okay corral. thank you. thank you very much. and now we will entertain questions, comments, and concerns. and all we ask for is if you have a question to let that bill might get in place. i am anticipating good questions from this bright denver audience. >> i just wanted to thank you for wonderful reading, and i hope that the publishers will select you to read your own work. it was terrific, and i enjoyed hearing you this morning. i am looking forward to it tomorrow. and a stand you will speak again. >> well, he convinced me to stay. i really like this chap. he is, i think, a popular talk-show fellow here in denver, and i really -- i mean, it behooves me to stay for a little bit still into the studio tomorrow. we were very simpatico. i appreciate that. yes. they are waiting for the microphone. >> hello. june 15th to the package club, and i wondered if you could make any comments? i've was wondering if you want to read this quote. the county and all that. do you want me to bring it to you? >> sure. are you familiar with the story? this is an entry called the cannibal of the slum billion pass. it is about alfred packard who earned a very sinister place in the folklore of the american west as a result of his acquired taste for human flesh. do we have any cannibals in the audience? good. there is usually one or two. but, i will cut to the chase. the illustration for this is all wonderful kind of down-home peace, and it was called the packard club. there is an image of al packer. written in this town home language. seven democrats in india county, but you, you for racism and eating something -- son of a bitch, ua five of them. eliminate five new deal democrats which makes me a member of the packard club of colorado. charter members round card. there you go. the packard club. [applause] [applause] >> i. coming over here tonight, there was an announcement on the radio about birth certificate of davy crockett that the court had said the woman who had it had to give it back to the county where you left. >> i have not heard that, but there was no birth certificate. >> the wedding -- >> wedding license, and that's true. he received the wedding license in danger ridge, tennessee. a seat in that old court house. unfortunately some many years ago they pitched it out with a bunch of papers. this woman who lives in florida got a hold of it. so all they have for those years is a facsimile. of course i talk about that little marriage license business in the book. this does not surprise me because i know they have been trying to get it back. i'm not sure what kind of legal maneuvering went on to get that because, you know, it is their own fault that they did that thing out. i would imagine they played upon her sense of history and would never end, perhaps, there was some money involved, i would think, writes, was always helps. speaking of money, did any of you put a bid in on the billy the kid picture here in denver? i think it was two and a half million dollars. william coke bought it. a lot of big bidding going on. yes? >> one more question. >> let's let this lady come over here. >> sir, you did say something about up of the question. i hope that i can ask one. you and i come from very near the same place. i was bought -- born in st. louis. very much appreciate your presentation. the question comment combination. i have been a listener for some time. i heard it this morning and heard you. you seemed set apply your talent to some pretty real people. you disparage some rightly. the hollywood fictionalizing of some of these people. i am a person who is very depressed with the way that our country is going. i just wonder if you could throw your astute observation about people and our politicians and our economy and the situation we are facing today. if you were ted say 50 or 100 years from now how would you reflect on the mess that we are in today. [laughter] well, it's interesting. some of the reviewer is of the crockett book, it actually got into some contemporary issues and talked about him and a reference some of the folks involved in politics today. i mean, they even used his name with people like sarah palin's and folks like that. i can understand that to a certain extent, but not really. it is kind of what i said to him today. i'm not sure i even understand what i said there because it just came to my head, but he said, what about crockett today. i said, well, he would be kind of like a liberal to bagger, which doesn't make much sense to my note. but not really. he would -- he actually would be considered very liberal today. he became awake, which was the beginning of the republican party. solely not out of any desire to -- to really become of way, but really because of his problems with jackson who, of course, was a democrat. they used crack it and even teased about running a president. some of them were very serious, but that wasn't to be. i think crockett was more genuine than a lot of the so-called down-home candid it's that we have today. and i'll tell you this. he was a lot brighter. [laughter] [applause] [applause] i think he would probably be astounded by the dumbing down of the country because he was always trying to improve himself. he really did. we found his copy. this guy, who has been trade as a bomb. really, there was something really very compelling about this man. that is what drew me to him. but all of those qualities that i liked so much in crockett i find not an iota of them in the kendis it's that we have today, not an iota. yes. but you have to understand that i am a bomb throwing balls of light. [laughter] [applause] [applause] >> that was wonderful. >> i loved it. >> we loved every minute of it. >> i'm sure he would be happy to sign your books if you would like to form a line that way. you can come up. we wanted thank you so much for coming, this wonderful evening. >> good to be with you. [applause] [applause] you put me on the spot, but i like that. >> floridian governor rick scott, a connecticut congressman jim hines, and a look at america's changing demographics the census bureau director robert groves and economist eileen applebaum. washington journal begins live at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span2. >> this weekend on book tv on c-span2 and frederick olmstead is rumored for designing the u.s. capitol grounds in new york city's central park. justin martin looks at his life as a journalist and abolitionist. also from washington, book tv stops by at a launch party for fox news analyst juan williams latest, muscled, and on after words, this bill and crossbones are long gone. pirating in the 21st century is done with night vision goggles and gps units. inside the world of the pirates of somalia. sign up for a book tv alerts. >> jeff guinn is the author of several books about the old west, including "the last gunfight" about the shootout at the o.k. corral. in may he spoke at the arizona mystery museum in tucson for 40 minutes. >> welcome to the arizona historical society. i'm bruce dinges, director of publication and editor of the current journal of arizona history, and we are here to welcome jeff guinn, the author of the last -- "the last gunfight," the real story of a shootout at the o.k. corral and have it seized the american west. jeff is a former book review editor of the fort worth star-telegram and also the author of the recent best seller, go down together, that's true untold story of bonnie and clyde. welcome. at like tess start up the conversation this evening with the question that i'm sure is on everyone's mind in this room. there are basically three iconic events in the history of the imagination as the college. one is the last stand, the alamo, and the third is the gunfight at o.k. corral. the question is why? do we really need another book on the gunfight at the o.k. corral. >> not only evidence why we need another book on the gunfight at the o.k. corral. them produce, if it had been written by critics who don't consider themselves experts in the subject of a tombstone or the gun fight or the american frontier. all claiming that it is a book of revisionist history by which they mean it is just shocking to them that these things in the book are actually fact. one reviewer said he was stunned to learn that the battle to and actually occur in the okay corral, but in a vacant lot some yards away. i think we can think bill breckinridge and stored lake and some others for that. i think trying to write later about the gunfight at the vacant lot near but not at the o.k. corral doesn't have the same ring throughout history. [laughter] people also seem to be astonished that instead of talking about cardboard cutout participants we are talking about real human beings, men of their time who had good qualities and loss. everyone seems staggered by the fact that tombstone might have been something other than a dusty little desert hamlet. the fact that there are so many intelligent readers who would certainly say truthfully that they care a great deal about history don't know these very basic things, let alone the complexities of the place and the time. that is why we need another book about tombstone and the o.k. corral. >> i'd like to go back to your dusty little town comment. i have lived in arizona for almost 35 years. i spend a lot of time in tombstone. i have the pleasure of reading your book and manuscript and rereading the town -- but this week. it struck me as i was reading it, it is very difficult for any of us in no tombstone today to amazing it in 1981. such an important part of the context of what happened there on october 26, 1881. it would be helpful if you could tell us what kind of a town it was back in. >> well, i'm willing to bet if i ask this audience today about my favorite character of my tombstone and o.k. corral cast was -- by the time they finish the book they might not guess it was the town of tombstone itself. it was such a vibrant place. sophisticated, not just in terms of a mining boom town, but in terms of the towns all around the country. it had shops that sold the kind of fashions that you would see on the streets of san francisco. the people there bought them. gore may restaurants where for a few dollars you could have a meal that would rival anything you might be in new york city. the theaters offering will class entertainment. there were even a few telephones linking the mines to the mine exchange building. the town fathers were about to start debating putting in a sewer line on the main street of town. this is the place that simply is not given its proper credit and a lot of the film's and the essays and so forth today. it was much more, just like the history of southeast arizona and the history of the american frontier much greater than most people realize. >> the other important part of the backdrop for this story is politics. they know that today at the very least complex. we sometimes think that issues are intolerable. yes, i think you will discover first of all they go back as far as we can imagine. the politics don't have anything on what they were in 1881. if he could give us the setting it would be helpful to set the tone of the book. >> there were very real, extended and intense. it was certainly felt that trading between americans and mexicans was something you would want. bandits on both side of the border parade on merchants. certainly some cattle rustling being done. a lot of people tended to think it was one-sided. the cowboys faction would run into mexico and great indiscriminately. the fact remains there were mexican bandits he became march over the rio grande. fair to say that if some of you, i know, just back from the texas ranger museum in waco, wonderful place, and they have a lot of great history there. if you read the reports about the wrestlers that the texas rangers were trying to drive out of texas, they weren't trying to drive them out because there were stealing mexican cattle. there was a great deal of discrimination against mexicans in texas and in the southwest. it was simply not consider that much of a crime to go down there and take there stock. politically the earps beckham -- represented the republicans, big business men of tombstone and the area who wanted more law and order to be firmly in place. this because they thought that was the best way to attract outside investors. at the same time a lot of the small ranchers who were not just represented by the clintons and the macquarie's, many of them southerners who had migrated west because reconstruction offended them so much wanted to get away from what they considered government oppression to be free to live their own lives as they chose. and we simply switch the political parties around today you can see that the themes remain with us as well as some of the ethnic press as -- prejudices'. >> it may seem strange on the face of it, but in reading this book something struck me that struck me in reading your bonnie and clyde book, and it's not just that it is about people, which it is, which makes it fascinating reading, but family values play a big role in the relationships that play a big role in what occurs. i wonder if you could draw out some of the relationships that occurred, the families, what the family man to in this story. people sometimes forget that the gunfight actually involved three sets of brothers. and what that added to the next. >> in the frontier when you were prospecting, when you were trying to run a business or ranch, everybody else in the area, to a certain extent was a competitor. it was hard to know who you could trust, who would not betray you. for that reason family was so important. it was so critical. the herb brothers were desperately loyal to each other. they love each other. an insult to one was an attack on all. but that is also true of the clintons and the macquarie's. he trusted your family. he defended your family. sometimes you might be a little too prone to defend them. but these are the time to five kinds of relationships that or import not there in a place where you are struggling to create yourself in the great words of french melon. the frontier of the west was a place where men can still dream of becoming. part of that dream was having your family there with you, right or wrong, to be at your side and always chesty. .. when you think, this explains it. this helps me and explain it. one of the things that puzzled me when i first started writing this book, is how was it that wyatt earp and doc holliday or friends? for me think about it they absolutely should be. wade is trying to move up in the world by impressing his social who believes i'm not in order and talk, let's face it was a walking timebomb. all we know is their account through general differences in writing that wyeth said it found ways.holliday had something to save his life. there is some new material in this book of mine, often gathered by tom block or rather by the billions, no more so in evidence than in meeting it collect dirt memorabilia into mark ragsdale who lives at the massachusetts and marquette in his his possession the original note taken by engineer john flood when he was interviewing wyatt in one of his earlier attempts. these notes are fabulous for any number of reasons. if for nothing else, to match a what flood is writing a detailed accounts of us to rethink what some years later. you can see why it is learning the way he goes along for certain things to have the greatest impact. but flood took notes on wyatt earp's explanation of how he became friends with doc holliday. and we were able to actually put that in the book. according to wyatt, houston dodge one day. doc holliday who was an acquaintance, but not yet a warm friend is gambling along the main street where wyatt intercept some texans in town and celebrating a little too hard and the texans determined they're not going to be arrested in instead turn on earp. doc holliday in a civil and seized the history window, the game, borrows the gun, rushes onto the sidewalk, catches the cowboys by the surprise and holds them at gunpoint while wyatt can collect himself and make the arrest. and wyatt told john flood, from that moment i became the true and lifelong friend of doc holliday. say what you will about either of these men. and people have a lot to say. they were faithful friends to each other in step with each other in times and circumstances where others would not have done that. and i think that's a great attribute in anybody and i think it speaks well of wyatt earp and doc holliday. >> there's another character in here. when i first came to this job, the great folklorist showed me a letter he received in the 1930s when he was working on billy teams tombstone, wrote down a biography of wyatt earp and he received a letter from joseph theatre same sheet shows that no further book be written about her has been. little did she suspect. but how does josephine fit into this mix? >> i think the most fascinating thing about josephine issue is such a world class enabler amtran -- fanatical or. it was hard to know if anything she said was true or not. that's why she's so much fun. we can say in modern terms that this was a woman who required high maintenance. [laughter] she was determined to control their husbands and then she was willing to do whatever she had to to make that happen. there is a manuscript, the product of two young women relatives trying to pry enough good stuff out of josephine that they can get a book published, that parts of it have been for us around in the serbian tombstone in research community. the originals are actually in a safe deposit box, controlled by the four county historical society in dodge city, kansas. and i've gotten a fair and with the permission of the men who made the donation, clint bowyer, i have studied those manuscripts and i came away absolutely certain that josephine was just full of it. [laughter] much of which you see in my book is gathered from other public records and documents. and if it says it makes me for statements statements somewhat questionable, if josephine were here right now, she would you sobbing and throwing herself in your mercy to be made by some evil outsider that only wants to make wyatt look bad and josephine looked at. and when it comes to the facts, josephine didn't need anybody's help in making herself look at. i will say that a wonderful writer named dan kershner is currently at work on a biography of josephine marcus earp and anne is braver than i. anne will find some things and wall learn a lot. >> one of the things your book is actual unfolding of the gunfight. you know, step-by-step fashion. it unfolds in a way that seems those inevitable and a total accident that makes sense. and you get to the final moment and has what seems to me and zero moments, the same moment custer had when he got on top of the ridge and what looked like all of the indians in the world down there or travis had when he realized nobody was coming to save him at the alamo. he says holt, i don't mean that. what does that tell us about how this event has been? >> i'll repeat that i think something was bound to happen, whether it was going to involve the specific individuals or others. there was just too much tension and too much stress. genes earp said later he thought there was a certain amount of pressure put on virtual by some of the townspeople that had that happen, none of this would've occurred. i like virtual a lot and ended up feeling sorry for them. i think he tried very hard to be a good mommy appeared in the eyes of average americans today, the gunfight at the o.k. corral and filed wyatt earp, doc holliday and the clantons. it seemed that sort of been dumped in the background as have tom and frank looked unsure and mcclory. he was very pragmatic about the way enforce the law. he gave people a chance to back away without embarrassing than for having their pride intact. he did his best that day to let the cowboys settled down and right on out of town and finally felt forced to act when he did. he called on the people he trusted most, his two brothers. and of course there was doc who would never miss an occasion like this. it is a terrible tragedy that this happened, and i think if things had happened differently in one or two instances, if virtual hadn't been approached by a couple town leaders offering vigilantes, if the cowboys walking through the o.k. corral i think really meaning to leave town, but not wanting to leave too fast to kids they didn't want the onlooker steve inc. the earp had that been down and made them leave. any number of things might have prevented this. even if that up in the case, something similar would've happened sometime soon. >> unitas says after the gunfight, they could reasonably walk away feeling they were heroes. that didn't happen. what does that tell us about tombstone? >> first of all, i think virgil small made was when he settled i don't cannot. i think the earp's moment came the day after the gunfight when instead of being recognized as heroes, which they were expecting company that 2000 mourners turning out for the l.a. kelantan and mclaury brothers. the tombstone leaders -- by the way, one of the things about historians like land is they don't just want to have a different opinion looking at the same set of facts. it's the open-mindedness that encourages discussion rather than arguments. i've learned so much from him. i think we all have. but what i thought i was talking about -- hang on to second. it's been a long day with all the sites. the fathers did not consider the earp's there equals. there were people. there were tools that could be certain functional things. after the gunfight, after public opinion began to say, sometimes looking like it's going against the earp, town leaders think we've got a bunch of voters here who may not like a way this turned out and they are not supporting them as much. the earp's were disposable like disposable razors and a thinking time they came to resent it when they realized it. >> that leads naturally into something and i want to point out in your book. you said wyatt legacy was related to uncomfortable memories of a minor functionary who ultimately overstep himself and particularly violent regrettable ways. how do we get from that to you o'bryan? [laughter] >> delete history is remembered quite often is the way the general public describes it wanted to have been. at the turn of the 20th century, there's great american interest, intensified american interest in frontier heroes. you've got teddy roosevelt writing popular books about how great it is to be branching out in the west, the certain lifestyle. you've got that masters and reinventing himself as a journalist in the east and writing magazine articles about the great heroes he wrote what, including wyatt earp. the silent movies, the cowboy traumas that are presented as we get into the depression, a complicated scary time. we want to think not long ago in her history things were simpler, where if there is evil, and it got out of thompson eradicated it. from there we get the talkies. we get the movies of the 40s and 50s. for some of us who are old enough to remember, do you remember what every second tv was a lack and white cowboy drama. gosh i wanted to be the lone ranger. it was simply an evolution of what we wanted to believe happened. wyatt earp first is presented by bat masterson. then stewart takes the. and in the movies. don't forget for a while but tombstone was almost more popular in the movies and wider readjusting is doing everything she can, threatening not to us. don't sony wyatt earp's image. her idea of selling his image with a scene where he tried to do you obtain with my machine and. to josephine wyatt would never have got. it grew because it was with so many people wanted to believe. and that's that the sad thing is the truth, not as a saint, not as a career criminal, not the best of the western landesman, not every bit as bad as the cochise county cowboys. when we realize someone is an actual human being and not a cardboard cutout, when a person becomes real, then the history becomes real. and don't all of this year, each in their own way think it's important to use the facts rather than the fiction? because the facts when they are presented with enthusiasm, with context, almost inevitably are better than the mess. >> you can't get away with saying that something changed the american west, particularly when it's the 32nd gunfight with fedex lady what she means. so i have to call you on the subtitle. >> , and where? >> sorry, i always like to say that to somebody. >> i think what happened that the o.k. corral had two specific changes, one short-term, one last romantic than the other. again, it is surprised so many readers and reviewers already but after the gunfight, earp and doc holliday are put into a hearing to determine whether they should be tried for murder, but after the vendetta arrived, wyatt and their companions are indicted for murder. this is a message that any american west wanted will have to answer a court for their actions if they were not legal, that man claiming to avenge attacks can't take the law into their own hands and the greater way it changed was the perception of the american west. today we don't go a week without some politician who has won a close election, the football coach whose team had a one-point win and said it was just like being in the o.k. corral. it's become part of our national vocabulary. and people use it to demonstrate that the last, that the frontier was a simple black-and-white plays. it was then. the history is so rich, so complex, so multidimensional, that it's given short shrift. and i think the more we write books and mine isn't the only one, wasn't the first, won't be the last, that tries to give context and help readers understand things that really happen. the benefit is greater understanding because what is the sense of writing a book or reading one if you're not learning something? i learned so much writing this book. i hope that some readers, when they read it or want to know more and turned to the work of others. and if that happens, then i would say it was something that contributed to a change that needs to come. >> i think many of us in this room relies on this particular topic, research can be a full contact sport. so it's kind of surprising that you say we are to be a family of historians. what do you mean by that? >> first of all, i don't think family is always get along, but i do think we all have to realize that it's not so much any of this compete with each other as in the best sense we got to be complementing each other. the last gunfight -- sub tab is a book with my name on it. i spent a years of full-time research going on over the country, trying to find new things, to figure things out, bring some new conclusions and concepts. but none of this click is about standing alongside other people who have been doing great and honorable and often unrecognized work. and yet, without these people, people like me don't read her books at all. and i think it's only appropriate, particularly with the folks in this turn to speak to that is maybe a way to close down this part of our program because i am sitting up here, but i'm office hitting the side so many people. when you talk about those who want selfishly research, devote themselves to try and learn things that help the rest of us understand better. there are some folks in this room. there's tom colmer who keep saying, keep laughing. but he also keep sharing his research. scott dyke led me on a wonderful walk were accidentally sat on some barbed wire. what i think of scott and i think they're both with gratitude for his contributions to my book and some of the puncture marks in my butt. bob tom quist, and the only who could help me understand some of the intricacies of frontier loss. jim turner who helped me track down an army lieutenant and never asked why it mattered because once he started looking, he got interested in oils. the thrill of the chase. lynn bailey, who knows more about the history of this area then lynn bailey? all of his work is so much to us. kevin and best balkans, owners of one of the greatest collections of western memorabilia in this country and to sheraton selfishly with anybody who asks. there's people who aren't here tonight, but they are in our heart, they are in her books. gary roberts. when i'm writing this book, i met gary and he makes the thank you jesus discovery, and original newspaper article showing that after wyatt earp was arrested for horse theft and misuse, wyatt didn't just walk away on bail, but that he had broken out of jail and was technically a felon for the rest of his life. gary called me up inside i know you're writing this book and i think this is interesting. when the end of the article. use it in your book. think about that kind of generosity. paul kuhl, mark worked in, and collier. i met her being such a shy timid young lady. if were doing all the work, why do you write the book? [laughter] and you think you ask tough questions, buddy. pam potter, paul had come a great lady in texas named sissy vale who knows more about frontier women in their roles than anyone had ever seen. rob mckay then, even though he charged me for using a picture of doc holliday, i'm still grateful to god. just mori, the man who was so generous with his knowledge and doesn't get half the credit he deserves. then trawick said the first to me i'll tell you everything you need to know and then preceded to tell me about the wonderful feeling of the things he's written in today only. he was still grinning when he pocketed my check. rainman via, who has researched so much property in tombstone, who paid well, what the taxes were. bob alexander, johnny b. hann has a defender for life and this a great example of how he can disagree with someone into a pleasantly. jim donna van, who is doing a wonderful book about the battle at the alamo. other offers, tcp for keller, paula mitchell marks and a special man i still haven't met, but i am grateful to them because they read his books and articles, bill schilling berg. two people that although should recognize for their contributions to their knowledge, even though there's controversy involving them, maybe deservedly, but tonight luscious credit them for things they've given us. carl chieftain and glenn boyer. some of the people who contribute most are those who don't necessarily to do research or writing themselves, but they do the things that make it possible for the rest of us. when i met bruce dinges, i wanted him to read me trainee sketch because i knew he would give me a fair and objective opinion of what i was doing well and what i needed to do better. there's a special woman named christine rose and under her direction, the cochise county recorder's office is a place for anybody ought to start if you're trying to do this research. and learned from all these folks and as a gesture towards that, i am contributing all of my research materials, all my notes, interview transcripts, document copies, every day that went into the "the last gunfight" to the arizona historical society said the next person who wants to write a book on this topic will have immediate access to everything i had. [applause] here's what i'd like you to apply because it's approved rio. i'm making this contribution in honor of bruce dinges and christine rose, these two. [applause] >> thank you, jeff. i'm having a nosh asked volunteer, but were kind of limited. and the last unsung hero, a great friend to readers everywhere, but a great friend to writers, too. with all that bad, that conclusion. i didn't write a book without everybody else's help. let's all work together. and when we do that, i think everybody benefits, most of all the people that need to know the things, the history we believe is so important. thank you. >> that's a nice place to wrap it up. we do have a little time for questions. what i ask you to do is come up to the microphone. please keep your questions brief and to the point so that everybody has a chance. >> you first. >> didn't allie earp say wyatt earp is that robbing stages and status keeping modern order? at number two, who killed johnny ringo? [laughter] >> who planted this woman? in search of the first one. there is a great deal of question whether allie earp said many of the things that frank waters reported that she said. giving probably there were tensions between allie and why it's certainly. did watters probably exaggerate those tensions? i also think that the fact because they frankly don't trust what the watters wrote. hukill john ringo? somebody. maybe even john ringo himself. a little mystery and history is okay. yes, ma'am. >> on the subject of josephine marcus, i was intrigued by your referring to wyatt earp as it has been. it is my impression that there's no evidence there is a very legal marriage between whites and josephine. can you speak to that? >> certainly. a lot of marriages on the frontier where the common law variety, where there was no legal ceremony and were frankly other power lay with the man rather than the women. when somebody got tired of it, it was dissolved. there was no legal basis for it. wyatt earp i believe was married once to a real in his youth. i think in between her and josephine, to other, my wife's for a certain period. when i say he was her has been insane that in the accept it front of the frontier when they would enter into a common-law marriage. you are certainly correct that i don't believe there was a legal union. yes, you stranger. >> you look familiar. do you have a favorite movie about the gunfight? and can you comment on some of the strengths and weaknesses of the various movies more recent and older? >> actually, my favorite o.k. corral film is star trek at this episode. i think all the films that have been made and have been popular have some entertainment value. i think more recently the film tombstone tried to stick a little bit closer to the facts than the wyatt earp film, but that's a personal failing. whether there's any film that stuck to the facts and try to show this is more interesting and entertaining than the mythology can't name one yet. i can think of a candidate down the road. >> you mentioned that to the extent that tombstone at that time extended to the newspapers and if so, which went through the website would be on? >> thank you for that question which we can answer without anyone arguing about it. it was democrats and the epitaph was republican. in the political tensions were carried out in print and certainly contributed a great deal to the hostile atmosphere between the two political parties. but i also will say that a lot of people thought that was what politics is supposed to be played. then and now. of course he tried to use innuendo and slurs. why wouldn't you if they worked? will have one more and then will probably close that. >> jeff, congratulations on the next book. after all your research, all this delving into everything, i want to know what you think of wyatt earp. another author has said he's cheated the underworld all his life. after all your research, what do you think of the guy? >> i think wyatt earp was a man of his time. and in those times, young men trying to make a living, trying to establish themselves, operated somewhat on both sides of the law. i do not achieve a sustained. i don't think he was evil. i think he was like all of us, a flawed human being he made some good decisions and plenty of bad ones. i did not in any way find myself disliking him. i don't find myself wanting to put a pin above him on my wall. but i'll tell you this. he was a interesting man. >> thank you, jeff. i know jeff is exhausted, but he'd be glad to sign books over at that table. books are available for purchase over there. also, we have -- it doesn't come out very often. we have far collection of earp memorabilia, it's going to go back in the vault, so take time to look at that. and again, jeff, thank you. you've got a real treat in store when you read this book. >> thanks for coming, everybody. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> a man not surprise you that we think good things come in twos. c-span's live coverage of the house come or live coverage of the senate on c-span 2 you can watch live event online at c-span.org. >> or you can see the more you want at the c-span video by paris. c-span 2 has nonfiction books on c-span 2. >> on c-span 3 explorer american history tv. >> follow us on twitter and join us on facebook. it's washington your way with these in. >> created by cable and provided as a public service. >> secretary of state, hillary clinton spoke today to the international food policy research institute about the ongoing famine in east africa. according to the institute, 20,000 children have died there since may and 12 million people are in need of assistance. secretary clinton announced $17 million immunity to the region, bringing the total usaid to $580 million for the year. this is 35 minute. [applause] >> good morning, everybody in thank you for coming. i am director general of international food policy research and did too. it is my honor and a pleasure to welcome secretary of state, hillary rodham clinton, who joins us today were special presentation. what brings secretary clinton here is a grave and urgent concern that we have shared. the humanitarian crisis in the horn of africa and the more importantly, short-term response and a long-term solution. our mission is to research the sustainable ways to eliminate hunger and malnutrition and reduce worldwide. we have studied agriculture, food reduction, drought and east africa for years. and i'm deeply concerned about a slow transmission of research into the action on a local, national and international scale. the latest information coming from the horn of africa is nothing short of shocking. more than 12 million people in need of life-saving care in kenya, 29,000 children dead. three consecutive to reduce harvest ended this project did that crop yields will continue to be weak later this year. the food crisis solved. for example, the price of eggs rose by more than 125%. in 89% in other areas. just during the first half of 2011 alone, just in the last six, seven months. adding to that, the ongoing political conflict in the crisis was born. as far back as last summer, however, supported by usaid issued an alert that back-to-back week breeding seasons were expected in east africa and about 40 merchants these are possible. what was missing, however, was the action and the political will. putting this information in two years, the strategic thing needs to be developed that system such as increased early warning system in their ability, it triggers specific action to be carried out by designated organizations. so what must be done to prevent it from ever happening again? in the short-term, international dominance must gear up their contributions to humanitarian affairs. most of this money will go to much-needed food, water and medical aid. but it should also be used to protect a few remaining assets of the poor, particularly livestock. the protection must focus on a woman and her children. in the immediate term, policy breakers must ensure that trade stays up. the national government should eliminate export events in tanzania and refrain from employing u.s. these restrictions need tight market and exacerbate crisis. in addition, efforts to establish and properly manage reserves for humanitarian purposes must be accelerated. again, clear channel is to trade your the release of these reserves through these emergencies are necessary. there are ways to ensure that food reach the poor. in the long-term to prevent future famine, we have to help small farmers and resilient ivy improving their productivity. the african government must lead their paths to allocate 10% of the national budget to support small agricultural growth. and the comprehensive african agriculture category. we also need access to a wide range of risk management tools, including tax fix any drought resistant crops were a variety in the weather-based insurance that protects against drought. so it's part of the research within the group for international research can provide the evidence needed to guide some policies and build a strong program in horn of africa. to turn that evidence into policy would need a dedicated engage policymakers. with that, i turned the passover to secretary of state, hillary rodham clinton whose efforts in fighting global humanitarian crisis needs no formal introduction. not an secretary, the floor is yours. >> thank you. [applause] >> thank you so much, direct or general for not only those remarks, but for the work that is done every day here at this premier organization designed to come forward with sustainable solutions for ending hunger and poverty. and i want to thank the international food policy research institute for hosting me today and for the leadership you show in a key area of global development, helping governments to sign in it limits successful policies for reducing hunger and undernutrition. this is an issue that is on your mind every day, but is now undermined as many people because of the crisis that is raging in the horn of africa. it is nursed a food crisis come in a severe drought has put more than 12 million people in ethiopia, kenya, djibouti and somalia in danger of starvation. it is also a refugee crisis because it is point, hundreds of thousands of people have left their homes in search of food and safety. some are walking more than 100 miles with their children in their arms to reach refugee camps, which are so overcrowded that thousands wait outside the fences and more arrive every minute, and many close to death. what is happening in the horn of africa is the most revered humanitarian emergency in the world today and the worse at east africa has seen in several decades. the united states and our partners in the region, including the world food program, the u.s. high commissioner for refugees, unicef, it ngos and donor governments are racing to save his any lysis possible. fortunately, we did as the director general just said have a bit of a head start because of the famine early warning system network, known as set to. the united states supports it along with others. it monitors drought and crop conditions and alert government in eight groups when crises are coming. this network, along with the analysis in the u.n. food and agriculture organization enabled us to begin pre-positioning food in key locations throughout last year, but a great deal more must be done and it must be done fast. famine conditions in somalia are likely to get worse before they level off. and while we hurry to deliver life-saving assistance, we must also maintain our focus on the future by continuing to invest in long-term food security in countries that are susceptible to drought and food shortages. it was this connection between food emergencies and food security that i would like to speak to today. because our goal is not only to help the region come through this crisis, though working with organizations like ifpri to do all he can to prevent it from ever happening again. food security is the key. let me just briefly summarize our emergent the response to date. the united states is the largest single country contributor of food and humanitarian assistance to the horn of africa. on monday, president obama announced that in light of the current crisis, and they are making available an additional $105 million in emergency funding. today i am announced in another 17 million on top of that, with 12 million designed specifically for helping the people of somalia. that brings the total u.s. humanitarian assistance to the region to more than $580 million this year. we are reaching more than 4.6 million people with busy. it helps pay for food distribution, therapeutic feeding for those who are severely malnourished, for clean water, health care, sanitation, protection and other services for those in need. let me say how grateful i am to the aid workers who are delivering this system swiftly and affect to flee an extremely difficult and often dangerous circumstances. over the course of this crisis, u.s. officials have made multiple trips to the region, including just this past weekend to kenya, a delegation led by dr. jill biden and joined by former senator.dear bill bill frist come the u.s. administrator, raj shah, eric schwartz secretary of state for population refugees and migration and gail smith from the white house. they saw the best and worst of what is happening on the ground. they visited the kenyan agricultural research institute, a top-notch facility long supported by the u.s. government and i had the chance to visit it on my trip to kenya two years ago. i was very impressed by the work i thought there, by scientists who are cultivating crops that can thrive in drought and are enriched with essential nutrients. these breakthroughs of art he uninsurable save any more in the future. but the delegation also visited dadaab, the refugee complex in kenya. even before this emergency, it was the largest refugee camp in the world. some people have been living there now for 20 years. it was originally built for 90,000 people. 20 years later, more than 420,000 live there, including thousands of third-generation residents. so the current refugee crisis is taking place against the backdrop of a prolonged refugee crisis. the united nations is working as fast as they can to build new facilities, but well over a thousand people arrive every day. most of the vast majority of those arriving are somalis. because amalia is the epicenter of this emergency. southern and central somalia are the only please the region were him and has been officially declared. because unlike ethiopia and kenya, somalia has no effect of natural governance and the terrorist group, al-shabaab has prevented humanitarian assistance from coming in. it is killed and threatened aid workers. there are also credible reports that al-shabaab is preventing desperate somalis from leaving the areas under its control. nonetheless, hundreds of thousands of somalis, largely women and children by managing to flee to the north or leave the country altogether. they are pouring over the borders into ethiopia, kenya and djibouti. that in turn severely strained the capacity of those local communities and countries. the united states is now providing $92 million in emergency humanitarian assistance inside somalia. to facilitate aid within somalia central and southern regions, we have recently issued new guidance about the use of u.s. funds to help keep groups working with the united dates government try to save more lives. still, a great deal depends on whether al-shabaab is going to let international is distance be delivered. and so i once again urge al-shabaab to be the cause, not only of the international community, including the arab league, but of the cries of their own people and allow the secure delivery of relief to all those who are afoot good. the united states will continue to work with somalis in the international community to bring the hope of peace and stability to somalia. and we join all of them always been hoping that there will be a future with a functioning government that can protect the somali people against famine and helped develop a sustainable agricultural area. these are the steps were taking to address the immediate crisis. as we proceed, we must not forget we have seen crises like this before. first comes a severe drought, then crops fail, livestock perish, food prices soar, dozens of people die from starvation, most of them children and thousands more pick up and move. every few decades the cycle repeats. and it would be easy to throw up our hands and landed on forces beyond her control, but this cycle is not inevitable. to food shortages may be triggered by drought, they are not caused by drought, but rather by weak or nonexistent agricultural systems that fail to produce enough food or market opportunities in good times and great down completely in the bad times. in other words, a hunger crisis is not solely in a god. it is a complex problem of infrastructure, governance, markets, education. these are names we can shape and strength in. so that means this is a problem that we can solve this we have the will and we put to work the expertise that organizations like ifpri possess. we do have the know-how, the tools, the resource. and increasingly we have the will to make chronic food shortages and undernutrition and memory for the millions worldwide who are now vulnerable and while some might say that this is a conversation for another time, that we should worry about preventing food crises only after this one has passed i respectfully disagree. right now when the effects if it security are the most extreme, we must rededicate ourselves to breaking the cycle of food shortages that arena dislocations that we see playing out once again in the horn of africa. we must support countries working to achieve food security. we owe it to the people whose lives we are trying to save and frankly we over to the donors and the taxpayers to make our work possible. and that's the amount decreases the chances that americans or others will be called upon in the future to face the same challenges in 10 or 20 years from now. and i will argue that we will be investing in their own security by supporting political stability and economic growth worldwide. for the past two and a half years, i've traveled the world from kenya to india to italy, talking to everyone from farmers to agricultural scientist, to aid workers about feed the future. the u.s.'s security initiative and a centerpiece of the obama administration's foreign policy. the united states has pledged three and half billion dollars to support rigorously developed plans to fortify the entire agricultural chain of our partner countries from the field and grazing areas where props are grown and livestock raised to the markets for farmers sell their wares to the tables and hard work people receive nutrition they need to stay out the. to name just a few of the things that we are doing through our feet the future initiative, we are helping farmers gain access to fertilizers and improved feed. we are setting up extensions service is to teach methods of conservation agriculture. we are supporting the creation of cooperative so farmers can gain more purchasing power and a greater political voice. we are spreading the tools for reducing post-harvest loss is. so after months of hard work and good harvest, farmers to lose 40, 50, 60% of their crops and the nutrition and the income they offer because of inadequate or poor storage. it also helped create a global partnership called 1000 days, to improve nutrition through the critical. from the start of pregnant t-3 child's second birthday. nutritional deficit during these 1000 days lead to permanent centime, reduce cognitive function and a greater susceptibility to disease that cannot be reversed by approved dictation later in life. two of our partner countries and feed the future are ethiopia and kenya. and even amid this crisis, they prove that progress is possible. the last time a drought of this magnitude struck ethiopia in 2002, 2003, more than 10 million people face starvation. today, fewer than 5 million do. now that is still an unacceptably large number, but it is also an astonishing improvement in a relatively short period of time. and it is evident that investments in food security can pay off powerfully. in 2005, the ethiopian government to establish the project is safety net program with support from international donors, including the united states. it helps smallholder farmers diversify their crops, create local market, better manage their days have resources and increase nutritional contents of their diet than those of their children. more than 7.6 million farmers and herders have now been helped by this program. people who are not among those in need of va today. in kenya as well, people who were greatly affected by the laissez-faire drought are now safe, even thriving. paul weisenfeld who is here today shared a story about a woman he meant from the northernmost part of kenya. it has been the hardest hit from the current drought. she lives on a communal farm made up of former livestock herders used animals all died in the previous droughts. today, thanks for help from international donors commission and the the other farmers raise various vegetables and fruit, including mangoes and aircraft is so abundant she is not only selling them locally, then exporting them to the middle east. in both ethiopia and kenya, the united states is helping to carry out comprehensive strategy that were designed by the countries and sells. to suit their distinct needs and strengths. in ethiopia, a top priority is strengthening the value chains of small farmers at local and regional markets. and kenya comes supporting herders is the leading can earn. so usaid is working to connect them to market, improve animal health service is, help local institutions of the far better livestock trade policies. both governments have developed country investment plans. both have committed to invest at least 10% of their national budget on agriculture. kenya is nearly bare in ethiopia has exceeded that goal. and both countries, we are paying special attention to gender, to ensure that the women who do a significant amount of the plan team, harvest team, selling and cooking are effectively support this. and were also paying attention to the environmental impact of our programs. to protect the water and land for future generation and to help farmers adapt to the effects of time a change. our goals are ambitious. and the next five years, the united states and salama than half a million people in ethiopia permanently escape poverty and hunger and more than 330,000 children benefits from it proved nutrition. in kenya we aim to raise incomes and nutrition for 800,000 people. but there are still millions of people in these countries and certainly throughout the world who need emergency help and they need it now. and yes, we are trying as hard as we can to reach them. but it is solid or important to recognize that there must be concerted effort by government and people to help themselves and there is no question that ethiopia and kenya are moving in the right direction. now we must help them continue that progress. and that is a job for all of us. the primary responsibility naturally does play with government and the people of country is like yeah and kenya. i've reached out to the leaders of these countries and they know the kind of changes this will need to make. they need to move towards free trade in grain imports and exports. they need to improve credit and land use policies to support farmers and herders. they need to ensure that public grain reserves are available shortages live and they need to welcome new technologies to bolster drought tolerance to resistance in crop yields. these can be challenging policies to get right, but they are absolutely essential for ensuring widest to recheck the land of tenable economic opportunities for the people. meanwhile the countries that pledged their support for food security at the g8 summit in licquia in 2009 must make good on their commitments. i certainly understand the difficult budget times we're living through, or we have to rededicate ourselves to doing development differently as we said we would. new donor countries have gotten involved to than the current food emergency. i urge them also to join with us in helping to create lasting food security. a year ago the united states let the g20 countries in establishing an innovative fund-based program that the

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