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Ho a the gun that built an american dynasty. We are having this talk taped by cspan. During question and answer if you can step to the microphone in the middle and speak loud and clear to it, that would be fantastic. Laura has worked for the bbc since 1993 reporting for radio and television programs. Vi her first book a very british family, chronicles for engine luish roots. Tonight we are exciteed for her to share her american roots. Are you a weeks ago during a lantern tour i gave a tour around the site. I would not have known was his simple tombstone meant. Oliver and his family have also buried in evergreen. Its time for his great, great grandfather to share for about the win chester. [applause] amy, thank you so much and thank you to all of you for being here. I cant tell you how touch i am that you are here listening to me talk about what i thought was a pet project. Im thrilled to see that it has a wide audience and thank you to c span. When i was a congressional intern i watched cspan all of the time and thats how i learned by american politics. Although i was born a britishbes citizen, i did just pas my american citizenship. I dont have my date of swearing in. I still think i can welcome you as my fellow americans tonight. N its a thrill to see you all. Amy thank you so much for theey welcome and reading the book. I cant tell you how a privilege is as an author to have people read the book. They always look at me and surprise, you actually read it. You didnt read the press release. As someone who aspires to write books myself, i know howdo important it is. Thank you all for being here. I would love to take your questions, any questions that you have and i should apologize in advance because i decided today to debut my contact lenses which is perhaps a bad idea in retrospect and im getting older. The results of that is that my vision is outstanding but the distance is truly awful. So i think this is going to be the one and only outing. Anyway, a thrill to see you here on a monday evening and absolutely stunning building. I thought when i was coming up the stairs, i bet winchester would have loved marble staircases. A fabulous example, isnt it . Oliver winchester is my, great, great grandfather. The story of olivers rise from drags to rich is quite an american story. The fact that i had a personal connection toyota and im a reporter and all life is copy, it was irresistible combination. Coming here in 14981 which is the first time i haim to new heaven, kind of a family compound in bradford and i was lucky enough to go and americans live like the sun and sky and everything was so fantastic. I learned guns as a child but here we were in an altogether setting and Oliver Winchester was the center of the story. I wanted to neglect about it. When we moved here from britain in 2004 the unfortunately became greater. Let me tell you how i found out. He was a farm boy, born outside of bos own as was the way back then. His father died soon after he was born. His father was married several times. Winchesters manufacturers but they went to school when there was no work on the farm. His mother struggled with the many children and stepchildren that she had inherited but at the age of 14 despite having limited education became apprentice at a church. As you can imagine in early days of the country, Church Building was a huge occupation. The work was in great demand but he decided that this was not for him. My guess is although he didnt write too much, he was such a skilled technician, but he became very interested actually in shirts and he patented inventions of the color collar which many gentlemen will be wearing today. He had shop which did very well. Here it was the era of sowing machine and oliver pounced up on the new technology and bought up machines and he became so rich that as is the case with successful investors today, he had loads of cash and wanting find somewhere to put it. If we think of where we are now, new heaven is full of people that make carriages, clocks, it is a hub of discord between immigrant groups, germans, italians, oliver has tons of shirts but hes looking around, what do i do with this money. The company has an opportunity, they are looking fur investors for investors. As you all know, muskets is what people used to fire, you only had one shot and reload. Whole business was extremely lengthy, by the time oliver started to looking where to put loads of cash the rifle is being developed in france, technique and also people are looking at how do you fire more than one round at a time, so the idea of the repeating riffle is being born and oliver with the good timing is there ready to exploit it. However, the Volcanic Arms Company was a disaster and ed who later married into the family and was the chief engineer said the ammunition were worthless for the purpose for which they were designed. Th reasonable ballistics were nonexistent. With all the strikes against combination it failed. So volcanic, oliver took over and became the new heaven arms company. All made a very good hire, someone who did know about ballistics and that was benjamin henry. And he quickly sets around and makes something that will actually fire and the civil war is on the horizon. Obviously, we are in the north. We have the fantastic repeating rifle. Its going to be great for all boys on the union side. Any of those in the army will buy it, they would realize that this going to revolutionize ande warfare less dangerous and over more quickly. All right, lets go. Oliver is off and in fact, lincoln was very interested in the idea of the repeating rifle and lincoln tested both the henry and its rifle which is also made here in connecticut. Clearly had no idea. And lincoln was very interested in the union side using rifle, as is so often the case with anything to do with military expenditure, the bureaucrats got in the way and so the order ordinance was headed by some dinosaur, who thought repeating rifles were going waste money. Soldiers would use too much ammunition and he didnt think that it was going to be effective. He assumed it wasnt going to be effective. He thought it was stupid, new technology and so he deliberately went slowly on all the orders that lincoln wanted placed with a result rifles in the war. What became known as damn yankee rifle, thats what people called henry, word did spread on the union side, soldiers used their own money to by the henryrepeating rifle. The seventh illinois volunteer. All of whom have got the henry rifle. Even though the army didnt think it was u good idea to buy repeating rifle, individual soldiers did and all of them had great delight later in the century in snapping out the spencer Repeating Arms Company which failed and oliver thrilled by it because his was successful. End of the civil war, the damn yankee rifle, word is spreading, now we have a new era of american history. Country returns to project of settling the west and what is finer than the repeating rifle. Everybody uses it, cowboys use it for killing buffalo. Its used in the slaughter of the native americans, then native americans use it. Its a rifle that they want too. They call it the spirit gun. To them strange quality of continuing to fire. Its used by the stagecoach and one of my favorite pictures of the book is africanamerican woman who works for wells fargon and there she is with her winchester rifle. Anybody doing anything dangerous, you would have your winchester rifle and colt pistol and in the lawless period this was a very popular combination, indeed. On the point of native americans there was a picture of jaronomo. It was suchly sought after because it was use today slaughter natives and used by native americans whenever they can get hands on them. I guess in a way it was a misleading battle, battle of big horn, custard lost span when custard were surrounded andr anl outgunned. Twentyfivecent guns were repeating rifles and a lot of them were winchesters so it was used on both sides, clearly mostly used against native americans. Sales were picking up and hes no longer having to pour money into the company, its actually making money and the one thats really makes money is the winchester model 1873. Theres actually one here in this museum which i was thrilled to go take a picture with amy. That became the gun that wob the the won the west. The chileans and he gallops off to mexico with thousand of winchester rifles and gives them somehow to the mexicans. And the to the best of your recollection wanted it too. N and about this time a very important character enters our life. So Oliver Winchester and his wife jane suffered the tragedy that so many families suffered them, three to four children died before them. The one that didnt was janny bennett and made marriage, one Thomas Gray Bennett. He became olivers soninlaw. In the book i quote some of his letters because he was only 17te during the civil war and there were black officers commanding white men and Thomas Gray Bennett talked about how difficult it was how white men would not take an order from a niger officer but the view of Thomas Bennett is this is what the civil war is all about, ending slavery. As a 17yearold perhaps he saw it more clearly than the older generation. Its just a fascinating fit of social history there he is writing about specially when you think about how we are still having struggles even today with the black lives Matter Movement and Thomas Gray Bennett writingg about it in florida. But anyway, turns out that all of the black marksman are better than the white marksman. Relations improve after that. [laughter] he goes to yale, hes a big, big guy. He wrestles in college, very smart perhaps he married the boss daughter. He marries in the family and the kid has got potential. He put thomas in charge. It wasnt like he could pop on a plane. The only way you could communicate by telegraph or letters. It took weeks to get anything done. He goes to london because he wants to see what they are up to. Hes worked in the gun show, hes a smart guy and also a brilliant, Brilliant Writer and all letters exist and thank you for the society for keeping letters, the letters are fantastic. Hes trying to see people at the ordinance factory and, of course, the british, how do they make any money, they seem to be open two hours in the morning and two hours in the afternoon. You know, close on good friday and easter monday. Hes finding it impossible to find himself around london. He doesnt give up and waits a week. One of my favorite letters is when hes in paris. Its really a love story. Story of him and jenny bennett. Its a beautiful story. She has said to me, fine young lady of new heaven, she wants a dress from france. The french also never open for business and bennett has time looking for a drez. Dress, hes really missing her. You could feel the love and anguish and separation and so hes doing this important work both successfully. But wasnt of the brilliant things that Thomas Gray Bennett i guess he understands rifles unlike all of them in 14883 a rifle turns up in his desk which has been come from utah. Fantastic, we won this. He leaps on a plane to utah which took three days back in 83 and the scene is nothing like its cracked up to be. S he hasnt seen a single buffalo yet. He writes to jenny every single night that hes away and letters some are ten pages. People spent almost as long we living what they did that day as they spent living it. Its the same with the letter that is go back to him from jenny. He meets the browning brothers, the mormon gunmaking brothers. Are you nice gun, isnt it . 8,000 for this and the next three that you make. What about ten thousand. Nope. The browning spent more money than they ever heard of and they say yes, its actually the brownings that make the hugely successful the win chest e models of the late 1880s. 1894, 1894, these are all made by browning. They dont get loyalties. They make the gun, they bring it to winchester. Winchester does all the work and makes it actually into something that will fire and sell and protected by patent. They built a patent fence around every single gun that was theirs so nobody could get anywhere close to it which, of course, gave them monopoly over that period. The brownings get pretty much clear. Finally, john mos cease browning says to bennett, all right, for this one i want a loyaltys deals and bennett swears at him and tells him to get out and thats tend of the relationship. And browning, of course, does, indeed take his rifle overseas, he takes to the belgiums and becomes wildly successful. Thomas gray benit did regret it. He was not a man who paid loyalties to anyone. But when you think of the man that they made from the browning guns and the genius any way, this it is period the legend of the winchester of the rifle of the west really becames embedded in popular culture. The wild west show, the touring show and teddy roosevelt, a marketing mans dream. He writes a book all about biggame hunting with thee winchester and how much he loved it. This is a love affair in 1908, he plan a biggame hunting trip to africa. T he spends twice a week corresponding with bennett, is it going to appear and i want this gun for my son. Are n son. Maybe if anyone asked, you dont have to deny it. Teddy being the marketing genius that he was himself knew that winchester was dying to explore and the big game trip. One of my favorite of that trip is the ammunition that teddy took. Or hor poor is collapsing for big game hunting trip. Teddy roosevelt was wonderful for the winchester rifle. Now, winchester himself died in 1880 feeling pretty please that had the company was in good shape, Thomas Gray Bennett was there. Oliver himself was a philanthropic person. He was also extremely interested in greenhouses and he was happy into the regular gardening competitions that were held. He like today grow fruit and vegetables. We havent won any gardening prices that im aware. Perhaps we need to change that. Dies of tuberculosis and the wife of william is Sarah Winchester, the Winchester Mystery House that you may have heard about in california. So sarah becomes wildly rich because her fatherinlaw has died, her muz has died and then her motherinlaw died soon after leaving her with millions and millions, but she has suffered the tragedy of her husband dying and ten years before that their baby daughter had died. So sarah didnt want to stay in new heaven. She was the story of a wheel carriage manufacturer. She was beautiful and talented, she could speak french and play three instruments. Her Beautiful Life disappeared in front of her and she went ous west. As long as she kept on building her house, then she would be fine. The spirits would never get her, by the way is a story for which there is no evidence at all, but its still a great story. I get it. She was clearly reclusive. Shes also highly intelligent. Shes grief stricken and obsessed with death, her husband died and daughter died. Shes obsessed and writing back from california, shes writing back here and writing about funeral arrangements and wants to know how her motherinlaw embalmed and where she will be and when will she finally be reunited with william and how close to oliver and jane. She was so unhappy in the present that all she could think about how in the future when she was dead she would be reunited with william and their baby daughter and relatives. Its quite extraordinarily morbid when you read about it. And shes also obsessed with all of the kids, gifts that they give one another over the years. How the rich spend their time buying gifts for one another and worrying about who is going to be in what will. Its not at all the mystery house out there. What sarah did with her millions and this is a topic that we talked about in the family, where all the money goes, sarah inherited so much of it, what she did because her husband died of tuberculosis she wanted there to be a cure for tuberculosis and when a Tuberculosis Hospital was set up here in new heaven early you the 20th century, sarah happily gave millions to it. Not only that because she was so clever and forwardthinking and obsessed with legacy, obsessed with william, early death of tuberculosis, she set up the brilliant system where she pulled millions into a trustli fund for nieces and nephews and that was the other thing, shes disapproving of people who wasted the money. There was a black sheep in the c company. You shouldnt give people all the money, you should give them a trust fund to live of without generating income. She did this for nieces and nephews and she stipulated in her will, they would have a nice sum to live of when they were alive, but when they die the principle would revert to hospital in new heaven which is incredible. This is her writing her will in 14916, she died in 1922. In the course of writing this book, i emailed with the director of the winchester clinic and i asked what difference the legacy has made and she said is truly astounding that sarahs money is not the problem, its other diseases but sarahs has enabled people to be treated in the worldclass facility here in new heaven and to me thats so moving and also just completely lives the light and message. She was clever. Brilliant, really, shes done something much more sensible with it. To this day, the bequest continues to generate money for what can say is a terrific course. Im proud of her and so sad that her life was blighted by grief and, you know, as a mother myself of three children, so many people in the book, children died before they did. As a parent thats your worstld nightmare, for us thankfully it doesnt happen very often. For victor ains it happened all of the time. But let us return to the theme of decline unfold. So everything is going brilliant ly, more people are buying rifles for shooting, people are inspired by teddy roosevelt, everybody wants to have a winchester. Its still predominantly a Rural Society so plenty of people to send rifles to. Not a problem. But just before the world war because fears are wars are on the horizon theres a recessionn and for the first time probably in 30 years winchesters orders drop in about 1912. Hes married to the sisterinlaw of Winchester Bennett, he says to Thomas Gray Bennett, why dont we bid for government contracts, war is on the horizon, theyre asking people and bennett says, no good will come of that and that turns out to be a statement as we will see. So Thomas Gray Bennett has a son Winchester Bennett who is also success but not in the mold of Oliver Winchester, Winchester Bennett is born in the gilded anal and ballroom dances as child and speaks french, sort of hugely accomplished, talented, goodlooking, the richest kid in new heaven pretty much but something about him that isnt quite right and his parents Thomas Gray Bennett and Jerry Bennett who loved to write back and forth, they talk about Winchester Bennetts nervous anxiety. They talk about how hes highly strong and they talk about how hes always anxious and im they are always worried aboutanh him. The first chemistry professor at yale. Shes wonderful. Shes training to be a nurse. She resist winchesters advances at first but her father insist that she must mary marry him. The winchesters then were equivalent probably of your Silicon Valley billionaires today. Susan marries winchester and makes the best of it. Hes always ill and very grumpy. Theres a beautiful portrait which shes painted shortly after they have one of their children but cecila, society portraits, cecila had dairies, she even she says, you know, Winchester Bennett is a terrible grump. He arrived in the middle of the sitting and caused chaos. Theres something strange about Winchester Bennett but what it is we dont really know. But what we do know is that he eventually dies of brights disease actually and about 15 years before he dies she checks into silver hill which youse probably all know in connecticut is a psychiatric facility for the treatment of addiction and susan every time she writes in her dairies, we met with a wonderful doctor who at last seems to understand win. Treatment of people with addiction so i wonder, hes always in pain, was he addicted to pain killers, was he addicted to alcohol. The cousins who remember him say that winchester was never good after lunch. Hes a big mystery. That says something. Some nervous condition, something. So hes at the helm, Thomas Gray Bennett stepped down before world war ii and i have to give you this quote because Thomas Gray Bennett has had enough. Hes spent all of these years and write to jenny bennett, about 1912. Shes off going to paris herself and buying a nice dress. When you get back lets live instead of waiting around and when i stopped to consider the short time left to me im impressed with filishness of little life. So jenny writes says, absolutely, step down from the company you dedicated your life to. Allies want winchester to help him. British turn up. St we want you to make the rifle for us by tomorrow and we want it modified so that it will fire a rimless cartridge and they look at the wonder and says its not going to fire a rimless cartridge. These are my orders and you will make it. We will try to make it work but its not going to work. Why dont you go somewhere else . They are making them for me. They are close in the british. Should be good business. They take the massive order from the brits to make the modified rifle and all a disaster. It doesnt fire the rimless cartridge and ended up having to cancel quite a big portion of the contracts and then the americans come into the war, meanwhile they are making guns for the russians and incredible amount of ammunition. Winchester made half a million rifles during the war. Use today make 400 every couple of days but they are going into absolute overdrive. 273million rounds of ammunition during world war i. The place is just busy but more people than theyve ever had before and they need more facilities, so in order to takee on all this work, in order to be able to produce all the contracts that they sign, so they make what turns out to be a mistake, they expand all of their facilities, build new buildings, take out huge loans to do it. Wall street loves us. Its going to be all right. Then the americans come into the war and the americans want fixed priced contracts, 10 profit built in but once the americans come into the war the cost of Raw Materials goes up, the 10 profit turns out not to be 10 and winchester ends the war in a horrible financial position having borrowed millions of dollars and in the middle of the war Winchester Bennett has some kind of nervous episode and nearly dies of pneumonia and steps down. Thomas gray bennett has to return to the helm. Hes the only person that knows the company. After the war, winchester wondering what to do and a bright spark who played golf with someone who worked with the company, this is the way they things worked, whats about that cat louis, i dont know if any of you familiar with the chemist. Stores everywhere and for reasons that are unexplained Thomas Gray Bennett decide that had louis vision was a rifle. You guys need to make stuff. You need to go into retail. You need to make products which are as good as the gun. Thomas gray bennett says, the man is running a successful chain. So much of the horror of ed who never liked louis, thought he was a madman. He started making ice skates, washing machines, fives, knives, baseball bats. Everything they can out of steel basically and ed is put in charge of the Retail Project and remember this is like a frugal new england company. They never opened their wallets unless they had to but they are so indebt off the war and they dont know what to do. They start buying really Expensive Stores on fifth avenue in new york city, in boston, near in newport where house wives are going to flock and buy, wildly expensive, bad money off to bad. Things go from bad to deplorable. And sure enough, then the depression turns up just with exquisite timing and Thomas Gray Bennett dies before the inevitable the company goes intm receivership and bought by a rival westin cartridge. Thats the end of family ownership. We go from rags to riches top. Going into bankruptcy in 1931 and the brothers because they were tightfisted new engine lands of origins they let winchester hang in receivership until they were desperate to sale which they bought for 8 million which was basically nothing by the value of the day and they turned around and brought to success. That marks really the end of the familys involvement and to me its a story of three men, Oliver Winchester, Thomas Gray Bennett and the rather mysterious Winchester Bennett and the women behind them who was married to oliver then of jenny bennett, both of them have same name but confusing who is married to bennett and thats all to me rather magnificent rather than life characters, the reason that i wanted to write the book and the reason i hope you will enjoy it, it seems to me that the history of the company mirrors the history of america at a fascinating time, through the First World War and the depression afterwards, its so interesting. And i feel so privileged that you are all interested enough to come here this evening, so i would like to say thank you fore this opportunity and, please if, you have any questions theres a microphone here, just come up to the microphone and i will be delighted to answer them as best i can. Thank you. An [applause] thank you very much, who will be bold enough to be the first questioner. Who amongst you will walk up to the microphone. Come on. I cant have answered every question with my talk. Sir, at the back. Sir, do you mind coming to the microphone. Its just for cspan and the viewers of book tv. Thank you for your patience and walking up there, i appreciate it. Do you know anything aboutor the gardens in east heaven and there was extensive garden there off i dont. Youre the second person to mention it to me and i dont. The only thing that i know that Thomas Gray Bennett like Oliver Winchester was gardener. Fruit, so maybe it was for his private gardens and Thomas Gray Bennett, his house is made on prospect street and guard gardens by someone who designed central park. This was an extensive park. Exactly. You know, i dont know. Im sorry. I feel inadequate. But if i was guessing i would say that was hoped to be awardwinning vegetables. Probably, brought it to the household. Thats what i think it was. I believe so. The other thing isnt that where nelly green used to be. Thats where it was. No. And during prohibition because thomas great bennett used to get the booze [laughter] okay. Thank you. Thank you for that question. I appreciate it. Sorry i couldnt answer it. So is the Winchester House still in existence on prospect street in new heaven . The bennett house, no, Oliver Winchesters house, oliver had a fantastic house which was built in the french empire style which theres a picture in the book. Its all like crazy and white and looks to me like Thomas Gray Bennett pulled that down so that he could build his house with the incredible greenhouses, youll see fabulous greenhouses and it doesnt exist. Okay. Sadly. But the twin house to Oliver Winchesters house, that still exists, we do still have a secondempire style building. So was there any kind of relationship between the winchesters and the colts, did they get along . They sort of parallel. You know, a lot of people would say it was match fixing. Why did winchester never create a pistol and why did colt never have a repeating rifle. [laughter] it seems like they had a gentlemens agreement to keep out of another ones way specially when they are making squillions. In the early days all these people are colton as you know was in hartford, they were competitive in early days but once the money was flowing in particularly in that period they seem today get along just fine. Thank you. Anybody else . Thank you. So i think im pretty sure that the Winchester House is the school, located right next to the mansion, the bets house and now a Big International center. Okay. Absolutely. So i got here late so you may have already answered it. Why did winchester leave the Baltimore Area to come up to new heaven . Well, so he had a store in new heaven, but in baltimore, sorry. Baltimore back then was much, much smaller than new heaven, i think. New heaven at that point had the railroad. It seemed to have more opportunity. He had done very well in baltimore with his shirts and sold his business with decent sum. I think its hard to say because he didnt write anything down, my assumption he saw a bigger market for the goods and small places to be able to ship the shirts. I use today run the chamber of commerce here in town but i actually tell the story from research that i did that he actually did it because it was free labor and before the civil war and he didnt think that the workforce there because of sort slavery right across the border in virginia with the ability to have free labor. All irish. Italians came in later. Fascinating. Better workforce he thought. The ability to scale up the workforce very quickly because its free labor. He obviously didnt know the civil war was coming. Thats really wonderful. Thank you very much. Madame. I have no questions but i just we wanted to say my brother worked 44 years, i mean, winchesters and i remember as a little girl they have skates and made batteries and i put in 33 years with u. S. So that was what winchester became. Oh, my gosh. You were there [laughter] youre a bit of our history right here. [applause] well, i think that was a period of very poor Labor Relations and difficulty, wasnt it, the 70s. So was William Winchester is a child or a son. A son of Oliver Winchester and hes the one marry today Sarah Winchester she then becomes incredibly wealthy because he dies young. Because of his death of tuberculosis, winchester, i guess, oliver started the winchester hospital. That was actually sarah that did that. Really . It was sarah that gave the money, yeah. And that building was was a hospital for tuberculosis in west heaven. Thats the site of the va hospital. Yes. And the Winchester Fund im sorry. [inaudible] right, before it became. Interesting. The government bought yes, the gentleman was just saying that it wasnt orphanaget the building that became the winchester clinic. Thats where the money still exists. Exactly. Once tuberculosis was more or less eradicated in the united states, the hospital, the building was closed and then the money transferred to the clinic which is now use today treat a whole wide variety. I havent had the pleasure of starting the Pediatric Clinic at winchester in 14957. Oh, my gosh. So its a Wonderful Fund because it takes care of all expenses if people dont have their own money. Thank you, sarah. [applause] thank you, sir, for that bit of history for treating children in 1957. Sir. My dad worked at winchester all of his life too and my mothers family theyre from louisville, massachusetts and her father worked at the cartridge family and winchesters paid for them to come down and had bit of housing in new heaven and set them all up and, you know, you hear about the robber barons but he treated his employees really well. That had to be like in late 240s or 30s when my mothers family came. It was going bad at that point. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. My dad worked there for 40 years. Oh, my gosh. At the peak of he is imemployment he worked until the 40s to the 80s and there was a magazine winchester life. I have about ten copies home. They were very clever. When i was born my name was on the magazine. They had a boling ally and i got to see the gun that they had there that later went out west. Also 35 years ago my wife and i purchased the street on everet street. Ere and its built with beams and basement are like 24 feet and 2 and a half. Built very strongly. My dad worked in the Carpentry Department there. When i purchased it he had worked there for 40 years. I brought him over to the house and he couldnt believe that i bought a house that the winchesters built in 1909. We got a kick out of that. That magazine that youre holding winchester life, its fascinating how that was used quite cleverly. There was a little bit of an attempt to suppress that with kind of you ladies looking so pretty here are some more recipes for you to cook. They were also big in sports. Winchester had a Baseball Team and my father was the starting catcher. When they there there were 20,000 employees, their coach was albi booth, famous yale football player. African american who was a star pitcher. What period is this . Mid 40s. Well before civil rights. And also they played yale so i had heard about this, i thought it was an exhibition y game, believe it or not, a friend of mine joe who announced yale football games, i happened to meet him at an association and he says to me, bill, im going check on that, he called me back about a week later, not only was winchester was on the rig regular schedule. Who won . Do you know . They played them for several years. It was an honor to be on the Baseball Team at winchester. Thats fantastic. S i wish i had known all of this. Sports is mentioned here and womens bowling teams. It was a Community Within a community with 20,000 employees. Amazing, thank you so much. Thats incredible. [applause] and thank you to everyone who worked at the factory and had links of it for coming and i love that its within living memory even though now as you probably all know the winchester factory has become a luxury loft as is the way of all flesh but its really fantastic to see all the relatives of the people whoa built the company here, thankk you for coming. I appreciate it. Does anyone have another question . Anyone else . Yes, sir. We have time for a couple more. What remains of the physical records of the winchester company, the business records, photographs . The archives, the winchester ended up purchased by the olan and ended up donating to wyoming. Its all up there. Everything went there. Exactly, sad that it left new heaven but olen felt that this a was a center devoted to the west and thats where they wanted it to go. Yes, everything is there. Thank you. Anyone we have time for one more question, maybe. Last question. Go on. I know someone has got a question or an observation, while youre thinking of the last question, i just we wanted to let you know one more thing that i forgot, which was so in the period after the civil war when slavery had ended, thi was the proclamation and all the rest of it, as you know, that was a difficult period for African Americans and there was a Little School teacher called ida wells, black School Teacher in an early civil rights activists and she actually advocated the use of the winchester rifle in black households as the means of selfdefense and she saw read in the newspapers African Americans were using winchesters to defend themselves against the lynchmobs. The winchester rifle deserves a place of honor in every black home. More the afro american are insulted and lynched. Te the winchester rifle, it was something that everybody saw utility in a violent time whether it was the native americans, the way it was used against them that they too wanted to use it but it also has a footnote in africanamerican history as well, which to me is extraordinary that it should have such a span. Now, do we have a last question from anybody . Come on. Tion dont disappoint the good folks from cspan. They have come all of this way. [laughter] not sure where they have come from. Sir, go on. Youre back. Im not sure if you count, you do. Go on. Maybe i missed it. But he was a partner and the house somebody mentioned the house is owned by yale and on prospect street. He was the shirtmaking partner when winchester came here. Right. He had nothing to do with the gun factory . I thought he was. He was an investor but he left actually. As he wasnt the big investor. That was oliver. He didnt want to lose money in the way oliver was prepare today lose money. Davis was the shirtmaking guy and he made his money with oliver that way and they built the twin mansions and the davis is still there in the second empire french style i learned. Right. Very over the top. Thank you. No, thank you. I would like to thank you all for coming. [app [applause] thank you for your reminisce reminisces. Have a great night. Good to see you. [inaudible conversations] every weekend book tv brings you 48 hours of nonfiction books and authors. Here is whats coming up this weekend. Today at 6 45 p. M. Eastern, david baron circuit judge for the u. S. Court of appeals for the First Circuit provides a history of the debates between executive and legislative branch over the constitutional right to declare war in book waging war, clash between president s an congress. 1776 to isis. Joining him at the National Constitution center in philadelphia is theodore, dean of the university of pennsylvania law school. The two branches are really in a dance with each other all of the time. Congress checking the president , backing down from the president , president bushing congress, the president is being worried about taking it too far. Sunday at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on after words, guardian journalists look gun deaths in america in book another day in the death of america, a chronical of ten short lives. Hes interviewed by juleka williams, a staff writer for the at atlantic. Counts people out, dehumanizes them and that means that when their life is taken, well, thats already been accounted for. Yeah, once you start saying, well, he was an a student, then those are suggestion that theres a grade that you could get where it would be worthy for them to be killed. Go to booktv. Org for the complete weekend schedule. The war in court which proceeded the burger court had star quality growing the meaning of equality in the constitution and in the country. That was not, Warren Burger himself was a judge on the dc circuit who was you might say running for a post on the Supreme Court. When Richard Nixon had come in, sobber, academic critiques on the war on criminal procedure area, but behind the scenes he wasnt quite so sobber and quite so discreet and in the correspondence that he had with his old friend Harry Blackman who was a judge at the time on the a circuit back in minnesota, we see the real burger, on labor days 967, burger wrote, quote, if i were to standstill i would im sure want to shoot myself in later years. These guys referring to the Supreme Court justices, these guys just cant be write, theres nothing to do but resist. In another letter to blackman in march 1969 which was about four weeks before he was named to the court, he was very sharply critical of the court referring to president nixon by initials observed rn can only straighten that place out if he gets four appointments. If he gets four appointments

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