Transcripts For CSPAN2 Telling 20240705

Descendant engagement and exhibits. The concept seems simple enough. Tell the full story. But storytelling, much like history itself, can be complicated, complex and contradictory. These speakers and their respective sites have all encountered different challenges while seeking to tell the full story. But theyve also experienced access, encouragement and praise for embracing and sharing the entirety of the american experience. Our moderator for this discussion is felicia bell Senior Advisor to the director at the Smithsonian National museum of American History, joe. Joining her on stage is meredith evans, who is director of the jimmy carter president ial library and museum. Sara bonharper executive director of James Monroes highland. Kate lemay, curator and historian for the National Portrait gallery. And Gayle Jessup White Public Relations and Community Engagement officer at monticello. And the Thomas Jefferson foundation. Please join me in welcoming our panelists. Like. Well, good afternoon. Oh, its so good to see you. Oh, i see. We have after lunch. Crowd oh, right. Very good. Well, were excited to be here this afternoon to talk about president sites and various forms and formats and how we interpret history at these sites in an inclusive way. And in a way that sheds light on how these president s have been successful and have had tremendous impact on our nation, but how they have also harmed others in the process. So let us begin our conversation on this afternoon with gail. If you could share with us a little bit about yourself often you are actually a descendant of Thomas Jefferson and the hemings family, and youve written a wonderful book called reclamation, which which i have with me. Yes. And tell us about how has your journey in reclaiming your heritage, as well as the journeys of other descendants, elevate it and enhance the Visitor Experience at monticello . Thank you for that question. And first of all, i have to tell you how thrilled i am to be here. And one of the reasons im so thrilled to be here is because my grandfather was a chef at the white house during the wilson administration. Theres not that much about him available. So one of the reasons im here to correct the record, we will be learning about ice cream in the near future and my second book as for montello, we have at monticello, and i feel that were a leader in this and my colleagues are here. I would like to recognize them before we go on. Gardiner halleck is our interim president , and i see andrew in a way, who is directing our library. And steven might might be here, but if hes not, thats okay. Steven is our interim Vice President , so i feel buoyed by having so much support by having my colleagues here and also knowing that theyll correct me if i Say Something thats not right amount of cello. We have something called the jenny word africanamerican oral history project. And that project since 1993 has collected the oral history of descendants of the slave communities traveling thousands of miles, founded by a woman who became my mentor. Her name is senator stanton and the late diane swan. Right. And as a result of that, we have an extraordinary collection of stories about those people who were enslaved at monticello and those people who helped build not just monticello, but who helped build democracy in this country. And these are the stories we tell about the individuals who contributed to that process, who contributed to making this country what it is and holding the aspirations of Thomas Jefferson. I would like to say that all people were created equal. Of course, he did not write that in the declaration, but holding that aspiration and bringing that aspiration to life for all of us. And when you come to mind, a cello, you will not just hear about Thomas Jefferson, but you will hear about the people he enslaved, including members of my family and what they did to make this country great and in so doing, when we see ourselves in history, it makes us better citizens. It makes us participants. And that democracy, which id like to add and we all know, is at risk now. And if i may say one more thing, while i have my museum remain among the most trusted institutions in the country, so what better place than the current institutions such as ours to hear the truth and to be inspired to participate in democracy . So its incumbent of all of us to tell these inclusive stories that really do matter. And one last thing. Why am i here . Why am i marcelo . Why does my voice matter . I am the First Descendant of the enslaved and the enslaver to work at monticello and to be paid for it. Thomas. That is fantastic. And thats thats actually thats thats awesome. I like that i want to stay on this descendants story and turn to you. Sara, and tell us about the descendants advice. Sorry, the council of descendants and descendant advisors at James Monroes highland. And tell us about the work youre doing there with descendants. Yeah, thank you for that. And thank you for the opportunity to be here and to share the stage with with this group. So, James Monroes highland in recent years has been undergoing really robust change, starting with our discoveries and Research Announcements a few years ago that the house that monroe had built and lived in had burned entirely, and the standing house had been misidentified. And so this great archeological story, architectural history and dendrochronology or tree ring dating snarled this long lasting, forgotten story. And so that really set the stage for change and in fact, for reexamine meaning all our histories and populating the site with new and most relevant stories. For now. Right . I think of this as 21st century history, which includes many more voices than previously. So we set out to think about how do we choose the stories . How do we decide whose voices are heard and through a longer process than im making it, we have developed a council of descendant advisors and these individuals chased trace their ancestors to highland either before, either during slavery or after the civil war, and then this body of individuals who range in age from early twenties to in their eighties advise us and our collaborativ partners. Importantly, in a couple of different areas. One is in in ident notifying and and frame naming and sharing the histories that we tell. And then really significantly in carrying out activities that i would not have thought of as a centrally Museum Activities, but are generated by a Wider Community for whom is very meaningful. An example is our annual descendants day. Right. I gather of people not just with connections to highland, but throughout the region and even beyond another is a very important trip to florida in 1828. The the enslaved community at highland was ruptured by sale and a group of of women, men and children were sold to jefferson county, florida, near monticello, florida. There there, those who stayed there formed a church after the civil war and their descendants are active today and are now our collaborators. And a group of girls went to meet with them. So these are activities that arent traditional music activities that are are are very important and essential are Museum Activities that are ideas generated by the council of the senate and advisors. And we carry them out in conjunction. We do that work with them. Theres collaboration on on making them happen. And so really changing what a museum is and what a museum does because of these collaborations. Absolutely. And just to just expand on that a little bit, im interested in descendants day and is that just for the descenda were you expanding this work youre doing with the descendants to your visitors, to the right and that that would be the part where i think i need to probably back up a minute and say when we first started meeting, we had, you know, the big flip charts and taking notes and saying, what are your goals . What would you like to see done . What is most important to you . My goals were things like how do we tell Better Stories in our new exhibit panels . How do we share more truthful histories in our spoken history . Walks, you know, and we have their input on all of those. We call it content theme and tone. So we unrolled a round of new exhibitions a couple of years ago. The next set is coming out this fall and those are chosen within put on content, theme and tone. What are we saying . What are the most important threads that were carrying through and what is the language . What is the feeling we want to convey . So thats the key part. Thats what i thought we would want to do together, because of course it was my goal as a Museum Director to do this. The descendant group at that point said we also want to have a day when descendants come back to highland to be together to promote healing, to offer fellowship for other descendant communities who are on the same path, and other people in our community and beyond who are interested and supportive. This is very inclusive. It is not at all limited by membership to anything. Anyone who is committed to the same work or even interested in the same work is invited. So there is the idea that a museum goes trotting along, thinking, okay, what am i going to do . Im going to give tours, im going to put up exhibit panels, im going to have some programs, and then another body says and were going to do these things in our community that have to do with healing, that have to do with whole. This in a community that have to do with a group of people who are not necessarily lee core Museum Visitors and so important and it sounds like youve had success with it thanks to a very generous Descendants Council generous of spirit and of time. Good good. So weve talked about how descendants have had effect on storied telling at at our site. So i want to turn to objects and how they help us with storytelling as well. And kate, if you would, i just want to talk a little bit about your exhibition that you have cocurated with Tina Kerrigan called 1898 us imperial visions and revisions and it is the smithsonians first major exhibition to examine us imperialism and the war of 1898, or the spanish cuban american filipino war and it also marks the 125th anniversary of the year that the us acquired overseas territories. It features over 90 objects. So you and i know were working very hard again and so tell us a bit about why it was important for you and time to use portraiture and other visual, other objects to tell this story and to tell the story of those who advocated for overseas expansion, opposed it and resisted it. Thank you for the question. The National Portrait gallery endeavors to tell the history of the United States through biography and therefore through portraiture. An spot is when you have a really good art and youre engaging in a kind of a biography thats capturing people. So we bookend our exhibition with a portrait of William Mckinley, and then we end that. The exhibition so begins with mckinley and ends with Theodore Roosevelt, painted by john singer, sergeant so what is interesting to me as an art historian is not only the subject that is being portrayed, but also the artist and what theyre bringing to the table. Because the mckinley portrait is made by francisco, roger was the preeminent puerto rican painter who was the Court Painter for spain, and during the war of 1898, hes like trying to figure out what is going to happen to his job. So he starts to paint William Mckinley from a photograph and offers it to mckinley. Mckinley declines because the portrait is not super favorable to mckinley as a likeness. The sergeant portrait of Theodore Roosevelt is much better in terms of flattery. So what is fun and interesting for us, and i think very important as a historian, is to have art broker a bridge through time with our more than 2 million visitors who might not know this history. They might not understand that the United States acquire puerto rico, the philippines and guam and cuba. For a brief time in 1898. And that summer, they also annexed hawaii or hawaii as we know it. Another portrait that we have on view is that of queen lili lani, which is the portrait by William Cogswell that usually hangs in the illinois palace in honolulu. And we were able to facilitate a very important loan because her voice is so important, and shes a major sight line in the exhibition. And not many people understand that the United States, under mckinleys presidency annexed hawaii through a joint resolution, which is not your normal path to a treaty for annexation. Normally you pass a treaty through the house vote and then the senate votes, and then you come together that way. Instead, they took a total vote against native hawaiian resistance. I mean, they really were not interested in being a part of the United States. They signed petitions against annexation. So were telling this story of opposition to american expansion, as well as the point of view of these two president s and i think that the objects help us understand really the the humanity behind all of this. And the fact that native hawaiians sent a delegation when we opened the exhibition, which is on view, ten blocks from here. So i hope that you all get to go and see it. And we also have a major book that we published with Princeton University press that is out, but it was really satisfying and very moving for me as a curator to welcome a delegation of native hawaiians who sang a blessing for the queen to open her into this, to welcome her into the space. Its really interesting to see how different people have different reactions to this history and continue to this day trying to understand its all its nuances and portraiture really brings those different points of view together, which is important for us. Absolute. So youre not a president ial site physically in terms of a place where a president live, but i believe you told me that the museum has the largest outside of the white house, the largest collection of american, a great place to learn American History, because we have the full set of portraits of every single president. We had to borrow a portrait of eisenhower from the truman library, actually, because the portrait that the portrait gallery owns is of him in his uniform from world war two. And you do not want to have the wrong idea. The United States is not a dictatorship. Right . So we needed a portrait of eisenhower in a businessman dress. And anyway, its a its a great collection. And how long is the exhibition on view . Its on view through february of 2024. So we we have time to go see it. Good. Thank you for that. Thank you. Sarah, i want to turn back to you again and when were talking about objects again and and how they help us tell stories about president s and president ial sites and you have used public archeology as a means to that, to open the door for visitors to explore and tell us more about how you use that to expand the stories of your site. Absolutely. So i think we start with the idea that the acknowledgment that as public historians for generations, we have shared, produced and shared certain narratives. Right. We have told specific stories, often limited, who we who we talk about and what we say about them and whats contested now, of course, is the expansion or the addition. And that is difficult all around. And i think i need to acknowledge the role of public historians for generations having been successful at feeding those narratives and now people feeling like were yanking the rug out from under them. We have to say our profession had a role in creating these stories. Our profession has a role in figuring out effective ways to expand and the narrative here, right . So thats where i start from. And so we think about how are we best going to reach people to get them to imagine changing stories or additions to stories in ways that they feel receptive to and that theyre open to learning . As thats one of the ways we start out with a success full learning relationship. I find that archeology is a way to do that for whatever reason, you can hold a small object in your hand and say, look what we found. Look, this changes what we know. This tells us something specific about a person or a date or an activity, and that somehow is less fraught than some of the other changes that we try to make. And so i really try to embody that space and invite people in to discuss what were doing when were doing archeology, to look over our shoulders is to constantly say, this is what we found and look how that changes what we can say about this place in particular, when were talking about the lost and now rediscovered covered president ial house at highland, we can say and in this house we can think about all the people who lived and worked here. There was for example, hannah, an enslaved cook, and she and her three youngest children, all boys between the ages of one and seven. Theyre just the youngest of her children. They moved there with her monroe family. And so we chose to excavate as close as we could get to where we thought the kitchen was. And we would simply say to our visitors, were excavating over here so we can talk to you about hannah and her family, these young boys, hannah worked in this space. They all probably lived in this space and just started the conversation like that and all of a sudden we were talking about who lived in a house that we think of as a main house or a president s house or governors house, then so forth, until president , house and that having these concrete feet items of of really uncontested did you know its a piece of brick or its a piece of pottery . You know, people can connect with that. And somehow respond well to that change. Its important to have those tangible objects as a part of the conversation and help folks kind of come to grips with what happened. It really makes a difference. So weve talked about objects and how objects help us tell stories. So i want to turn to meredith now, who is the director of the president ial library, the jimmy carter president s library and museum. And so tell us about how exhibitions tell stories about these president s you mentioned before about to me about how president carter intentionally chose to have the story of his upbringing as the very first thing visitors see in the main exhibit. There at the museum. So why do you think he chose to do that and has that been effective in reaching visitors to so that so that he is more relative to them and and relatable. I mean, to two visitors . Thats a great question. Thank you so now when they renovate the exhibition in 2009, president carter was very heavily involved and most president ial libraries are my colleagues are over here. So i think most start the exhibit with the time period in which they were born. And so we have a little bit of that. But when you come in and you turn right, you immediately see three africanamerican people images of people. And those are the people. He attributes his mentorship to, his upbringing, to. And so thats the first thing people see. So while you learn about the depression briefly, you turn and you see these people of color and youre going, who are these people . And that was very intentional. He wanted to pay homage to three individuals that shaped his faith, his upbringing, how he behaves, how he dresses, how he thinks. And so thats the start of the exhibition. And then you move forward and you talk with his teacher or you read about his teacher. We say talk because she writes these comments about you, too, can be president. And when people read that and then they see the sea in music on his report card, theyre going, huh . And then we have to come back and say, but he has three grammys, so we use objects and we use the archival text to show his life. And all of that was intention. All when you turn when you turn around after looking at his report card and his teacher, you see an africanamerican boy who was his best friend and he talks a lot about segregation and he talks a lot about going to the movies and having to go his friend having to go upstairs and him staying downstairs. And the difficulty in that. So having been his formative years in a black community until high school, because he had to go to the White High School in plains. And so theres this interesting shift in the very early part of the exhibition that shows this is how i was raised. And this is what im used to. And then i had to do this is a fascinating story. Yes, it is. And im glad that he was intentional in doing that. I think its important that people learn a different side of of him. And so i want to transition a bit to the folks in the room here and several of them are interpreters and at Historic Sites on the front lines, so to speak. And, you know, at a time in our country when were sort of grappling with our nations past and reckoning with it, if you will, and some folks are struggling with their and they end up at these sites. So i want to ask how in any of you can chime in . How are you preparing your staff for that to have these sort of courageous conversations with with visitors about about these president s and and their triumphs and their and their tragedies and harm to communities who would like to share. Ill jump in. Absolutely. And ill jump in because im so proud of the work we do and want to tell you, im sure all of you have been of cello. Yes. Okay. A few folks. How many youve been there since 2018. So youve seen the new exhibitions. A few of you. We opened exhibitions in 2018. The fair feature, several. One in particular called the life of Sally Hemings or and that put out a lot of our staff on the front line because they had to deal with what throughout American History has been very controversial. And thats why the jefferson had children with the woman he owned named Sally Hemings. Six children and father was followed by lines of people eager to see this exhibition and also followed by attacks from the right for criticizing signals for bringing jefferson down a peg or two were not bringing jefferson down. We were telling the truth. We were elevate, adding in the process the life of an enslaved woman who, among other things, was an emancipator pushing, negotiating with jefferson. You all know this freedom for their unborn children. While she was in paris with him when he was minister to france. Thats a big deal. And a lot of people didnt like it. So our guide to on the front line dealing with the texts. Our guides have 100 hours of training before theyre allowed to go on tour. I lead tours and they have to have 12 hours of additional training and some of that training, especially as this focuses on dealing with exactly what you brought up. Felicia, hostility, because theres hostility, they stop people. A lot of people who dont want to acknowledge the truth. Im not on the front line. Im usually in spaces like this with a friendly crowd. But i have a lot of respect for our guides who are and theyre wellprepared and they handle it well. And if its really hostile, they call security. And we hope it doesnt get that hard. But it has. But it im sure. How have visitors responded . How have visitors responded for the most part . And again, im not on the front line, but for the most part, i would say. And gardner, you can chime in on this. For the most part, i would say that our visitors have been very positive. Good. They want more information. I think people are hungry for the truth. They want to know the complete american story. It feeds off and it feeds who we are. And i, for a lot of people have please their souls. We all know that theres a lot more to American History than many of us were taught in school. Sure. So i think overwhelmingly this response has been very positive. But there are always a few who caused a problem. Yeah, yeah. So ill jump in. We spend so our president turns 99 next week. Were super excited. Well, this coming right and and he he has an affinity for children. So for 16 and under, were free. And the exhibition is targeted towards children. And so what we try to teach all of our public facing staff is how to be open and how to celebrate his legacy and the impact that its had. We live in a very interesting state. We dont get people in the building that are frustrated with us or dont like him. We get the people we think are going to come in that call and say, i would never go there. Hes not for me. So ive already judged him and choose not to come because they think hes weak or they dont agree with his beliefs or his campaigns or his political views. And so when we do get classes, they dont have a choice. The students dont have a choice whether to go on the field trip or not oftentimes. So we get all kinds of walks of life and they get to go home and tell their parents what they learned and we know that. So we focus on the importance of elections, the importance of not stuffing ballot boxes, because that was an experience president carter had when he ran for governor. We talk a lot about the importance of voting. Does it matter who the party is understanding the system of government that you cant have a fair trial without being registered to vote . That resonates really strongly with high school students. He happens to be in the curriculum and the georgia standards in second and eighth grade. So we have in a way, to talk with teachers and help them with their lesson plans. And then we have this global figure, right . This person from georgia, small town in georgia, who went overseas, not just in the navy, but in his whole political career and had diplomacy and relationships with all types of people. So when we wind up in camp david, our students are fascinated and so are adults. How did this southerner, this small poor boy, become president and then go across the world and navigate one of the greatest peace treaties in u. S. History and so students get to see the humbleness of the beginnings and the grandness of the end and then the hostage crisis, which we try to be as equitable as possible. But they get to go home and tell their parents, and then we bring the parents back. Ive seen that a lot. And then were also lucky. Physically, were lucky we are very connected to the king center. You have to go down. John lewis freedom parkway to get to us. And so theres this sort of sense of civil and human rights just on your way to the facility. So when you walk through the door, you know what to expect. You expect a leader who believes in diplomacy, who believes in human and civil rights and equality. And thats what youll get. Good. And your visitors have been receptive to that. Most visitors have been receptive every once in a while, like i get yelled at for something that im going. Did you really read that . What you saw . But i think i think the part of the museum thats exciting is that we have an archive to support it, so we can always refer to an actual document. You know, people will say, oh he didnt bring that many people of color into the administration and i was like, actually, we have documents that say, please make sure you bring in more women and more people of color into the administration and show me a report every month and so we have the documentation to support work. And i think that kind of eases the pain. And i think people its okay, its okay if you dont agree. Its okay if you walk out with a different impression because thats what were here for. Were not here to convince that hes the greatest president ever. Thats not our job. Our job is to show you through the you know, through the objects and through the document. Its what he did and how you can be inspired to do something similar. Right. Participate in the system, you know, try. And thats what you take away from. Absolutely. Ill turn to sarah again about james rose hall and tell us our visitors are responding to this shift in the narrative. Yeah, well, the shift, fortunately, rests on, you know, like i said, this discovery that is really very front and center and so we make it about discovery and we make it about learning new things. We also the staff training, the evidence, basing it on the facts, you know, all of those things build up the successful rollout and the other element, i think in addition to the other panelists, is giving the frontline staff the same things that we try to do every day to be very well versed, to feel supported, to take take the time and being allowed to be intentional and have that one on one with visitors and that availability of our guide staff to answer questions, to discuss, to, to push a little further, to continue the conversation. Those elements help make learning more successful because thats what were doing was were inviting people to learn more. We know more now we are including more perspectives now. How do we roll this out successfully . Absolutely. And and youve been sharing that as well with pre k12 teachers and in both regular visits and teacher institutes. Yeah, very good. Yeah. And really essentially all the narratives are interwoven on our site. Thats what we get from getting to start from scratch. Essentially when the physical history of your site needs complete overhaul, you get to put it all back together with all the intertwined as they, of course, as they were in the past. Right, kate . Yes. 1898 was 125 years ago. So were talking about relevance. And when we think about that, how do you how is portraiture and using that, helping folks to understand military history and and its impact on on people today, something that happened 125 years ago. I think its a large part of the conversation, current conversation, contemporary conversation. Well, thank you. Yeah, theres a through line really that you can draw from 1898 to today. And its about seapower. And so a section of the of this exhibition addresses what we call the ocean highway. And so in order for the United States to have access to asia, to china was the goal they needed coaling stations. I remember in the second industrial revolution, so the ships were powered by steam and coal. So guam seized, hawaii was sea is the philippines was seized for these strategic locations and since then the United States has maintained relationship ships with the philippines especially during world war two. Obviously it was occupied by japan and the philippines, which is an archipelago of more than 7000 islands and so the u. S. Lost control. But after the philippines gained independence, the us maintained military Installation Missions until 1992, when the us withdrew. But recently you may have seen on the news that South China Sea is not a friendly place. There are many, many tensions between the chinese and the philippines, between chinese and japan. And this is the the shadow of that is no longer a shadow. I mean, this is a real threat to national security. And in president ial discussions, as you know, weekly, daily, and im often lets to say so the us has renewed its military installation with the navy in subic bay in the philippines. And the reason why we even have that potential that of america bowl relationship with a very difficult philippine presidency in the past couple of years, its been because of this historic relationship that the United States has. So for all the history nerds out there, i think we can all count ourselves as among those among that group. It is really interesting to see the through line and to think about sea power and the way in which even the panama canal is changed hands. Jimmy carter was able to get the United States out of Hands Holding the panama canal zone as a overseas territory. However, it still is one of those ocean highway connectors and who owns the majority stake in china today, which is you know, so its very interesting to think about how this history laid the foundations and why it matters to this day. Its just really a lesson of world politics, if you think about it. So please come see the show. Its very interesting to think about it in that way. Thank you. Thank you for that explanation of that through line and just in continuation with that, i want to talk about the something sarah said, and i a quote from her that that touched me. And she said, the worst horrors of slavery were not the material ones. You havent said it on the stage, but we said it backstage. So that really moved me. And i want to talk about that, that intangible and how to you still explain pain beyond what is the physical. Yeah. How do you make that impact on business and thats for any of us. How do we how do we reach beyond, you know, the tangible objects, the exhibitions to really convey a story Found Foundation founded in truth about our sites and these president s. Yeah, and thats a really important question. Thank you. And it came up because we were talking about the the physical interpretation of enslavement and the dwellings which may or may not have been that different from poor whites of the same time. But theyre at that time were talking about early 19th century in the upper south. The real horror was the the personal and the psychological and the family. And so thats what referred to. And i think the thing that we need to do is to talk about personal individ ual stories, right, to tell those individual stories of a man named roger, for example, who was was just just broken because his wife was sold self. And he asks monroe to be sold south to find his wife, of course, in in the deep south. At this point, were talking about expansion of agriculture, especially cotton, some sugar. And it just a really much a more harder world that really doesnt end well. And that the most heartrending part of it is i have no knowledge that roger knew where his wife was, and hes just asking to go into the unknown in order to find her. And that story to me is always really impact phil to share. You know, he wants to leave everything he knows to go into the unknown, to find her with no knowledge that he would or the individuals sold to florida that i mentioned earlier. And theyre fate, young girl mary baker who went up with them in the last names dont tell us that she had any adults, her family with her. All right. So we we share these individual stories that are stories that we wherever we are in our lives we can empathize with. And if were doing nothing else, we are building empathy. The idea that others experience sorrow and joy and Family Connection is the way we do. And to to bring those forward to to express the richness and the pain of those individual stories. Absolutely. So important. I think that helps helps visitors to understand and know some of the tragedies associate with with these sites or the harm. What do you think . I think sarah has it absolutely right. And when visitors come to mind a cello and we as other sites do meet people where they are, everybody is going to come to my a with a different idea and a different perspective of what to expect when theyre there. And when you come to on a cello, youre going to hear not only about jefferson, as i mentioned earlier, but youre going to hear about the families he enslaved,im not just their pain, but their triumphs. Its really important to recognize and for people to learn that the enslaved were not a monolith. Moving throughout history, but they were individuals and they were listening. They were listening to jefferson and to monroe and to madison, who were often guests. We are monitoring. Speaking of freedom, these ideas and ideals of freedom and democracy and most of jeffersons people were sold six months after jefferson died on when july 4th, 1826. But there were those who were free, and many of those who were freed moved to ohio and they became conductors on the underground railroad because they were listening and moving forward during jim crow, the descendents of being a Slave Community and one in particular his name, William Monroe trotter, one of my personal heroes, became an activist, an early civil rights activist. And we can move forward into later on in the 20th century with peggy peggy trotter, whos still alive, who also an activist in the civil rights movement. So they were listening. And when you come to monitor law, you will hear those individuals stories because that humanizes this. The enslaved people. And we have to stop thinking of enslaved people as property and their descendants as less than because we still do. We live with the legacies of enslaved. And to this day, we see in a florida, we see an in texas, god forgive me, we see it in my state of virginia. And its important that we combat that. And thats what happens at these museum sites in the human eyes, people and tell their stories various right. You make them very relatable. We built empathy well we understand that theyre different from us. We talk about material objects. Of course, you come to mind a cello, beautiful place and experience material objects. But guess what . Its not just those things that jefferson had in his home. Its a toothbrush used by enslaved people. Oh, do you know how important that is to see a toothbrush of someone who was for me . Thats one of the most humanizing experiences i had there. And i was privileged to hold one in my hand. So, yeah, those stories are imperative and essential. Meredith what are your thoughts around . Yeah. Carter i think im just going to take a different approach. I think the way our exhibition is set up, its positive all the way through. Good, right . And so in order to deal with the hard issues, you really have to read the texts or say what if or how come . And i think thats the only way to really address. You used the word harm. It have done or in any point and its tough because our exhibit is extremely positive, but we do get a lot of what ifs or how how are you. So, for example, to do that. Its actually you know, we do through tours, we do it through scavenger hunts. We make people think i think important to remember that were in the south. So theres expectations not to see people of color throughout the exhibition except in his global work and thats not true so you see it and people go whos that . And then you go on to the governor section where he his acceptance speech literally says racism ends, segregation is here. And that was early seventies. And people stop and say, wasnt segregation over 20 years before that . And were like, yes, it was but this is what he said in his speech. You move forward, you look at his human human rights strictly. That comes basically out of his civil rights work in the United States. And so i think people start questioning and going, oh, he only does things globally. And then they think back to his upbringing and youve gone through how he grew up and where he lived and who hes with, and then the governors speech. And then you have to see at some point its not just global work, its how do we get with everyone or try to get along with people to make it successful for everybody. And how do you bring somebody up with you . I think you walk away, you know, when you■z see the sweater and youre thinking about the long lines of guys and all the adults who remember carter going, oh, i remember that. And the gas lines were so long and the kids were like, what are you talking about . Why is there a sweater there . But then they have to explain why that sweaters in there and why he was like, put a sweater on and you know, were going to save that way. Were going to get oil on our own soil and explain those things to kids of how politics work and how long it takes to get results is important. And youll see that through the exhibition, but only through questioning. When you read it. And somebody has to be there to answer the question. So whether its a staff person or a parent or a caption that weve placed there to help you think it through, and we do that. And i mentioned that iran hostage because you walk through camp david and this is a this is a part where you feel like youre there at camp david. Youre kind of in this cabin and youre seeing begin and to dodd and carter and these conversations and we have video and people walk out going, oh, wow, he did it. And then you end with hostages. And i always get did they get free . And im like, yes, but not here, not at this moment. And then carter speaks to it himself. You so you get to see him explain what happened or how it happened. And i think thats how we end. We end in a way that you hear from him directly postpresidency. So he can speak freely. And then youve seen all the way through from upbringing to how things work, congress and all those those kinds of debates. And then you end with him saying, this is what i think happened or this is how i felt when it happened. And i think that humbles humbles everything. You think president untouchable. And you walk through the carter and you say hes just, you know, and and a one term president and and i think visitors probably already have in their head before they even enter their own thoughts about him and his presidency. And then they may leave a different way. Its its fascinating because. I would say 20 years ago, people wouldnt say some of the things they say now, i hear a lot of carters the greatest president ever. And, you know, ten, 20 years ago, one term president , he was no good. And its interesting to see that dynamic. Hes 99. You know, when people say why does he do global work . Hes always done global work. Hes always tried to help people. He believes in a roof over your head and food at your table. And i think in every political role hes had, hes tried to do that and hes taken the backlash for it. Has he made mistakes . Yes, i think every president has made mistakes, but i think hes moved the needle in a way that gets people to think about the people and the person and the neighborhood and not about and about how all of us have to be successful, how all of us should feel safe, how all of us should be have food or home or i think you walk away with that and hes good with that part. You know, i want to end on that on that on that note that that note of call to action. Positive call to action and and that putting some responsibility in the visitors hands. They to put some skin in the game here just a little bit. Yeah be challenged by these sites and challenge yourself to think differently when you when you have one way of thinking coming in and just allow the site to share with you some different perspectives that you may not have expected. Right. Is that fair . Okay. Why dont we open the floor to some questions . Would anybody like to get a started . Do we have any questions for our panelists this afternoon. Wonderful. Come forward. Hello. Hello. Thank you very much. I really appreciate all of your perspectives. I want to address a couple of things. One is the individual differences that we see, and i think ive recently been speaking about that myself. You know, Harriet Tubman lived her life under the fear of the whip and was illiterate her entire life, whereas Frederick Douglass taught to read by his the slave owners wife and then set on out to be a great orator by an abolitionist. And so you see the dichotomy between those two individual difference and then also humanizing these sites like you talk about jefferson, who had a 39 year relationship with Sally Hemings and who was a half sister of his late wife, 25 black and they had seven children, five of them married into white families in the north, two of them married into white families in the north, two married in a black families in the south and in the civil war. He had four grandchildren who fought in the civil war, two as whites and two as blacks. And so you see how multifaceted our American Heritage is. If you just look at someone like jefferson and you see how everything is intertwined and then, you know, his 168 word passage that was left out of the declaration of independence is unfortunate where he talked about the evils of slavery that was thrust upon the colonies by the british crown. But i think, you know, jefferson, if you look at the human side of him, is great example of how our heritage evolved to where it is today. But my question is about how you balance the stories, because youre probably well aware of montpelier and you know the difficulties there and how some people felt, even people on the board that the story of madison and his role in writing the constitution was being lost. And i think one of the best quotes was by mary alexander, who was a descendant from madisons one of madison slaves. And she said hundreds of thousands of people owned slaves, but hundreds of thousands of people did not write the constitution. And so the question is, how do you balance i mean, were you talking about bringing stories in and elucidating more of our history . But do you how do you create that balance and i guess im going back to montpelier and, you know, perhaps the idea of losing the the greatness of the person that this was supposed to represent and and how you you know, how you create that balance with the stories. So thats my question. If anybody wants to take that. Well, i just want to start with the last thing you said. Then ill let panelists respond accordingly. But with the last thing you said was about elevating the greatness of the individuals that the sites represent. And i dont think its about elevating the greatness of the president s. I think its about telling the truth right about them and what happened. And so in order for us to be truthful, the foundation of history is truth. And in order for us to be truthful, we must be accurate. And in order for us to be accurate, we must be inclusive so. In order for us to tell the truth about these sites, we have to tell the truth about these president s. And its not about elevating them to making them great or or anything like that. We just want to tell the truth. Certainly theyve had an impact on this nation, but as well they purchase traded slave, right . So we have to be truthful about that and we have to tell that story and that story should be told from perspective. They should have some say in how that story is told. Right. So i want us to make sure that we get out of this this narrative of greatness when it comes to these men and and elevating their greatness in a so shading that with the site, i think we want to elevate truth. Is that fair . Lets start with that person. Im hearing some idea. So yeah, i agree with that. And i thank you for raising the point because it needs to be said so. Lets start with elevating the truth and then we go from there. Gail i agree with you 100 , and i think thats what we do at monticello. As i said earlier, were not trying to jefferson down. Jefferson was a human being, and we need to remember that all the time. Jefferson was flawed by any of us are flawed. Jefferson made mistakes. Jefferson owned more than 600 people during his lifetime. So it doesnt matter what he wrote in the declaration it was but admitted and he owned people because it would have destroyed them financially so that he stole people. He had people whipped. He had one of my ancestors whipped. Its important to recognize this and to know this is part of the story jefferson did good things. Yes, jefferson was human. Jefferson owned his own children. Those children were freed because of the woman with whom we had children. And there were four. We say we say that we believe you said seven. We believe we had six children. For the record, and the four of them survived infancy. So so its important to recognize that. Monroe, jefferson and all the founders were flawed individuals and they made huge mistakes. And some of those mistakes we live with today, Thomas Jefferson was my five times great grandfather. He kicked that can down the road. As i say, we can deal with emancipation later. He did not foresee that there would be the birth of cotton in the forest. The greatest migration within a country in history. You have people disappeared down south. That was a mistake. He made a mistake. And we cant whitewash that. You have to tell the truth and we all benefit from learning the truth. And in the process of learning the truth, people who have been written out of history are in fact elevate, you know, why they were elevated . Because they were down here and ignored. And its our obligation to raise their profiles and to celebrate what they contributed to this country. And thats our job. An institution thats like hylan and monitor and where many of you may work, where you have histories that have been and and people have been ignored. History. Sara, would you like to. Oh, i was going to just add something as a an art historian is interested in military history. How many of you have studied the philippineamerican war . Okay. Okay. As opposed to how many of you have studied the civil war . Right. Okay. So that by point, its clear what war do we remember and why in my own family, i have revolutionary war veterans and civil war veterans. And we do have a philippineamerican war veteran who lived in nebraska and fought for the nebraska volunteer volunteers. But we didnt talk about him at all because that is not a good war. So theres this kind of myth making even in our own history, that i think institute missions like the portrait gallery, feel response of all to kind of look at and so when dana and i were first discussing this exhibition six years ago, dana is from puerto rico. And i you know, im not from the pacific, im from delaware, but i have this kind of knowledge of and expertise in how art helps us remember or forget. So what did we remember . What do we forgetting and why are we not thinking about the immigrant immigration from these places as the extraordinarily high number of people from guam who fight in the us military, but who cannot vote for our president . Um, things like that, which i think you will agree with me. Its kind of a painful history. Its not exactly something that we really want to talk. We dont want to talk about the fact that the us and forced concentration camps in batangas in the philippines. This is an ugly war. So but had the us had historians put on something very public about the philippineamerican war, maybe vietnam would have been fought differently. Maybe afghanistan would have been thought differently. So i think theres something to the context just to get back to that question, really teasing out these contexts, asking yourself, those questions. Thats whats really important. Dont forget your hunches. Those hunches are onto something. If were not covering something in your history classes or in the museums, you know, bring it to people, because those are the hunches that we need to discuss and think about more. I, i, i so totally agree. And i think, what i like about our exhibition is that it puts history in face because you have to question segregation. His father was a segregationist. The mother was a liberal. She serviced a black community with health care. He grew up with that. And then he had to separate. He didnt have a choice. He had to go to the White High School. He didnt have choices. And his life shifted. You you know, there werent a lot of africanamericans in his navy. And when he was in the navy, in the naval academy. And so his whole life shifted again. And then he came back when his father passed and had to deal with sharecropping. And so each section of the exhibit will make you go, huh . Why did this happen . Or, oh, we didnt talk about that at school. We didnt know that. And you have to expound upon what hes put forth from his life. So its less about him and more about the issues that are going on around him that get people thinking and allow us as the people in the museum to help people through those hard conversations. Yeah, i see. We have another question. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is omar martinez. I am the senior Vice President for Historic Sites at the National Trust for historic preservation. We have connections to at least four sites that are part of their president ial sites, coalition and id like to acknowledge that, you know, we have we have people here, yola dance, whos the president and ceo of james mattis is montpelier is here. Elizabeth karcher, the executive director to president Woodrow Wilson house is here is here. Hopefully karli hawkins will come come soon. And of course we have stuart maclaren, whos the head of the White House Historical association, all part of our trust sites coalition. I just wanted to say, you know, when i think about our work, i think about our work as an opportunity to really help society and our world, to see the humanity of one another and when i hear about your stories about time, a full american story and really thinking about providing cant text and nuance and complexity to the men that we have been been attached to through these president ial sites. What i would love to hear from you all is how have you witnessed your visit. Is something that being challenged, right . How have you witnessed the like. I know its happening just by what you said, but and i know some of you are not front line anymore. Right. And im sure youre talking to your staff and youre having these engaging conversations with them and encouraging them and building them up. And and before i say anything more, the descendent work is the most important work that were going to be doing right now. From this point forward, were leaning into the senate work and then in 2018, we support did the interpreting slavery with the senate communities, the National Trust that was held at the montpelier site back in 2018. And were looking to upon that work with our sites now. And so i just wanted to ask you, how do you see those challenges being built, those assumptions being challenged . Because if were not challenging peoples assumptions, how do we how can we measure that were moving the needle. Thank you. Well, i get letters from kids. I its great when a teacher decides to have students write something and then they send it to us. So we have lots of letters and cards from kids. We have particularly about camp david. We we have people announced that theyre jewish. And thats not what they were taught. And theyre surprised by the ending. These are prize, how they feel about it. The sweater sweaters always a hit about the solar panels. And then we have an actual solar panel that reagan took down when he got into the white house. People are like, if we had that solar panels up, wed be paying 0. 99 for gas. Still. So we get all these really great letters to show that people thought things through, and then we get some angry some angry mail to. But i think that letter writing, since we dont have enough sort of inperson anecdotes, the letters are so much more meaningful because its paper that we can keep and go, oh, i remember that i saw that glass com or that gentleman was pleased with this. And that makes it worth it. Good. I think we have just enough time for one more question. And though i first off want to say that i admire all of you and lindsay from the james ingram museum, sarah knows me well. I had a question regarding all the work youre doing. The buzz word seems to be at this conference, authenticity and clearly everything that yall are doing is very authentic in creating relationships that are authentic. And im curious to now i kind of ask this question earlier today, but how are you like not only establishing those relationships but continuing that and growing that from the side of also the emotional labor that goes into it for yourselves, but also the descendants youre working with . And how are you making sure an equitable but also like resourceful exchange for both of you, especially for the communities youre working with, such as for instance, there have been some institutions that have started bringing Mental Health providers on staff to help talk with the descendants, counsels and stuff like that. So if you had some concrete examples of someone whos to make sure shes doing that work to thank you. Can i just about the queen lily colony, because that is something a little bit different in that the loan from honolulu this huge portrait is larger than the George Washington lands down portrait if youre familiar with that by stuart we needed to get the support of native hawaiians and so we worked with five royal benevolent societies which are groups of only the highborn are native hawaiians and also descendants of lily colonies, family. And in order to. Receive this loan, which is owned by the state archives of theres no way we were going to supersede the will of the colony palace. It was just, you know, not not something we were interested in doing. So i think in terms of caring for an object that represents a whole painful history, we organized with the community and then we welcomed a delegation of native hawaiians, which i already mentioned. And we also made sure that the objects self was conserved. The frame needed conservation and its very interesting to think about an objects longevity and its lifetime and this is the one grand banner portrait of this queen that exists. I mean, theres theres nothing else. Its priceless. And the fact that they were willing fly it from honolulu to, l. A. , and then truck it nonstop across continent to d. C. Was quite a i think that that kind of responsibility. I still feel it frankly. I mean its on view and we still have to disperse it. So im very nervous about returning this thing to make sure. Its in good condition, but it will be, we hope, in better condition than when we received it. And that is part of, i think, the reason why that native community was was in support of this, because lani had gone to washington, d. C. Throughout her life to ask for and she was denied every time this is her trip in their eyes to washington, d. C. To speak for her people in that way. So i just wanted to mention that its a little bit outside of the