Transcripts For CSPAN2 Shoeless 20240705

Welcome, everybody. My name is lindsey jancay. Im the director. Collections, programing and marketing here at bethlehem museums and sites. And i am thrilled today to. Be welcoming geoff gehman. Were talking today about shoeless joe, the babe and the highly unlikely 1918 Bethlehem Steel League. This is all in support are offered with support from johns adult programing fund. Historic bethlehem museums and sites which are Camera Museum as part of interprets three centuries of history here in bethlehem, starting with the early moravian settlement and into today and its stories like this that help bring that history to life. So thank you, jeff, for coming. The fun is going to continue beyond tonight and beyond jeffs talk. We do have the exhibition opened down from marbles to make believe. Lets play. And i really encourage you to stop by the bethlehem based ballroom, which has some documents and pieces that are related. What youre going to be talking about tonight. So were really thrilled. And then also, i do encourage you to visit us during the Holiday Season and see our trees of historic bethlehem and our offerings. Then, without further ado, im going to introduce jeff here, whos standing by. Hes a former pitcher who wrote about arts and sports for the morning call from 1984 to 2009. Hes the author of books, including the memoir the kingdom of the kid growing up in the long lost hamptons, which contains a chapter about carl adams, the oh goodness. Thank you. Thats that Everybody Knows him as yes. Yeah. Thats a little easier for me. Thank you. Yeah. The Boston Red Sox hall of famer. He lives in the south. You live in us outside right now. Carl has built as a mansion by a bethlehem steel mogul. Kind of bringing mr. Wilbur whos buried in this chaos. Yes, absolutely. So. Thank you, everybody. Please join me in welcoming john. Welcome, everyone thank you, bret, for inviting me as part of lets play the exhibit as part of the historic bethlehem mission. Its very nice to talk during playoff time because we who love baseball love the fact that many underdogs have upsetting the top dogs. And my talk is all about underdogs because in 1918, beth, im scaled league. Fascinating though it is has been lost to history partly because it was so short and partly the major leaguers went back after armistice after the end of world war one, back into their normal jobs and living. What im going to talk about sort of to the very dusty archives so who remembers 1918 . Who was there in 19 . Im going to take you back to late september 1918. Were at the stadium at the lebanon plant of death. Im still bethlehem steel had just acquired the plants the year before 1917. And the plants job was turning out bolts and rivets for the world war one, americas world war one effort. So at this phase, ball stadium is a practice by. The lebanon team of the bethlehem steel Baseball League, the lebanon team had three future hall of famers rogers, hornsby who was an infielder for the st louis, who would go on to hit 58 career, which is second only to ty cobb in baseball history. Anybody remember the name Stan Kovaleski . Good he went very good. Stan covid landscape from shamokin, pennsylvania. When he was 12 years old, he was working in the minds of shamokin. He found out that baseball was a lot more fun and profitable than working in the lines. So stan was a very fine pitcher for the cleveland indians. The year 1918, he had won 22 games for the indians. This gentleman mentions the world series of 1928, where three indians won. Kovaleski won three games and. Sharratt had a shout out in the final game and ended up winning 220 215 games and ended up in the hall of fame, thanks to the veterans committee. Thats hall of famer number two, the hall of famer. Number three, much better known george herman, babe ruth, who came very late to lebanon. Tell you more about that later. So theyre having batting practice and everybody has their practice. And babe steps up to the plate and he proceeds to hit every ball over the fence at the lebanon stadium. And he did it with a pair with a very specific purpose in mind. He had promised kids before batting practice souvenirs. Oh, so you have to understand that there were kids in, the stadium along with their fathers who were working for the lebanon plant. This is a rare opportunity. Have some fun during a very intense war effort. So, babe, hit every ball out of the stadium, disturbing the manager of the lebanon team. Now the of the lebanon team was a guy named charles pop keltner and ill tell much more about him. He is famous in his own right at this point. Charles pop keltner was a scout for the saint Louis Cardinals. His boss was branch who had, as general, the dodgers would sign Jackie Robinson, you know, and Jackie Robinson would break the color barrier in 47. So pop keltner was grew up in berks county, graduated from Lafayette College down the road in eastern pennsylvania. And he was a very christian fellow, very strict by the book. So he couldnt curse babe out for hitting a ball. But once the 1950s rolled around, pop would tell this story to a publicist for the saint louis cards. And thats i found out, you know, about the babe. Im doing a Great Service for the kids, but great disservice for his team. So thats it. So how did this Bethlehem Steel League come about . As a very good story. Charles schwab was the chairman of the modern bethlehem steel, started in 1903. He bethlehem steel into the number two steelmaker in the country beside behind us steel. His mentor was the famous industrial titan andrew carnegie. Schwab believed that if you gave workers proper recreation, then they would work a lot better. So he built this tremendous Athletic Program at the steel. If you worked at the steel, you could do archery, golf, soccer. Virtually everything was available. Bob bethlehem steel you may know much more famous in the bathroom, steel leg arm was Bethlehem Steel Team and teams 19 tens and 1920s. They ended up winning six World Championships that immigrants from all the were playing for the ringers and the the coach of that team of many of those teams was a guy named Billy Sheridan. Now Billy Sheridan was a the manager of athletic for bethlehem steel. He also ended up being leos famous coach. You may know that lehigh over the years has been famous for wrestling. So Billy Sheridan, a very pivotal character here, Charles Schwab. 1917, before america joined, though, the war effort, he knew that america would join the war effort. So he had a Billy Sheridan form an amateur steelworkers only baseball team. Once again, healthy workers better predict most more workers by the time 18 rolls around. And americas war effort is really intense and bethlehem steel, if you can believe it or not. Back then produce 40 of the munitions and 60 of the guns for america. And 65 of the guns and munitions for americas allies, great britain, france and russia. So it still was a big deal. Schwab knew that his workers were working way past overtime. They some major recreation and so came up with a great scheme. The secretary for war for america had declared america needed workers badly, soldiers badly because they joined the war very. And the secretary of war decreed that if you had to work or serve, you had to be. And for an essential military industry or actually be a soldier, if you were a male between the ages of 18 and 45, this scared part of my french, the out of Major League Baseball because what were major leaguers going to do . They would have to join the war effort or, you know, close the Baseball League down. So schwab invited Major League Baseball to send their workers to bethlehem steel to do socalled nominal jobs, which wasnt entirely true, and play for teams at six bethlehem steel or plants. So the guy, Billy Sheridan helped supervises but a fellow the president of bethlehem steel at this time was eugene gray and eugene grace. Actually, the supervisor, the man who put the Bethlehem Steel League together. Eugene grace great back story, 1899, graduate of lehigh. He was a star shortstop in his senior year at lehigh. He had hit over 400. The boston braves light grays. They offered him a contract i had 200 hours a month grace turned it down to become an electric crane operator at the steel for 45 hours a month. It was a great choice because, you know, he became the man, you know, succeeded schwab, made bethlehem steel even more of a titan, especially in world war two, and is buried in the ski Hill Cemetery next to mr. Wilbur, who built the mansion that i live in on the south side of bethlehem. So the very first player signed the 1918 death on steel leg, was Shoeless Joe Jackson. Now we all know shoeless joe from the film love. Field of dreams. Yeah well, at this point, shoeless joe was an outfielder for the Chicago White. He had had over 300 in all of his seven full seasons. He had he was a stolen base man, very fast. Great. He had thrown out over 20 runners in each of his seasons. The famous statement about, joe is an assurance. Joe is a filter is that his glove was where a triple is went to die. So shoeless joe at this point he had a wife, a an invalid sister and a mother to support. He couldnt go off to the war, so he got a deferral waiver from the white sox. He joined the wilmington hand shipyard there, bethlehem steel ran. Now were talking about these nominal jobs that the major were supposed to have and they were actually derided by the major leaguers who called the steel league the save shelter league. And there was this joke about all the major leaguers going to the bathroom steel plants where they would lean their brooms and break them because they were leaning, doing their work. You know, thats thats they were derided that way. But shoeless joe ended up having very important job at the wilmington shipyard, start out as the leader of the painting gang. He ended up as the leader of the riveting gang and that wilmington hand shipyard and fewer the under two years turned out 24 warships, one plant and shoeless joe was right the mix so number two player assigned to the Bethlehem Steel League was a player named id say who was this then . Well, actually, a guy named jeff tesoro. And jeff tesoro had was a pitcher for, the new york giants and he actually did pretty well. He went over 100 games in his career under three era, but he his manager for the giants was john mcgraw, who was a famous drill sergeant and mcgraw, during spring training had asked to rat on the players. He out of shape players during their extra extracurricular activities. And tesoro was a sort of an ethical guy. He refused to do that, he got into a feud. Mcgraw he said, screw this. So he went from the giants and signed up with the Bethlehem Steel Team, the local team at the Bethlehem Steel League. So i know more about the beth and team than any of the other five teams because of the local archives. I went to the library, the bethlehem area public library, down the road, and looked up at old beth and loeb microfilm. The globe eventually became the globe times, which was my very first newspaper job as a sportswriter. I joined the globe times in 1980, and there was a guy named john nonsmoker who covered all the games in the bethlehem steel. So he reported about shoeless joe coming to death and staring bases and getting picked off by jeff tesoro, and he had the great archaic language batters not to make a road or sticks mess. Fastballs for horse hide pellets. Yeah thats the way these sportswriters, you know, wrote back that the guys broadcasters like steve daines smith there they have their own purple language but. I really like the old archaic language. So the bethlehem team, the bethlehem steel, they was a motley crew and there probably was no more motley crew than the bethlehem team. There was a 45 year old player named cy seymour who had played the major leagues mostly for the new york giants from the 1890s into the teens. So seymour had, a very distinctive great landmark. He he was pitcher and an outfielder. His number two all time four hits among pitchers is number two only behind babe ruth. So sizemore played the in pitch for the best and team. There was a pitcher named al schacht h, a associate a c, t al schacht was a pitcher for the washington senators. He was born in the bronx on the site of what would become Yankee Stadium. Al shaxson a major claim to fame is that he became the very first clown prince of baseball. So 1930s, 1940s. If you were at a game, you would see our sharks behind home plate with a catchers mitt that was about this big, huge during rain outs. He would go from first base to second base, paddling, swing through the you know, through the infield with a baseball bat. So our shark was, a member of the bethlehem team there, his his friend from the bronx with a guy named dolly stark. Like al, he was jewish, dallied, never made the majors but he became the second Jewish Major League umpire. And not only that, he went on to become a very wellknown designer of womens clothes going stag. So thats two jewish players on the bathroom team. The third jewish player was a 1917 lehigh graduate named sam fishburn, traveling bret, do you have a image him now . Thats okay. No problem. Sam fishburn was a shortstop, very talented. He would end up being very influential there, had a great year with the team. So the mentored the reason im mentioning three is on the fm team is that two of those actually they had four. Stan baum was a pitcher who ended up writing for the sporting news and the philadelphia inquirer. Four on one team, two ended up playing in the major leagues. Two of the over 160 who have in the major leagues who would have thought, thats a great percentage . And that just gives you an idea of the the United Nations quality of the bethlehem steel like there was a dentist who played on the same team. There was a judge who played on the four river plant in quincy massachusetts, the manager of the team at the fall river plant was a fellow named Joseph Kennedy. Oh, gee. Now, this was before Joseph Kennedy became ambassador to england, made a fortune running a booze, seduced and dated and otherwise, whatever. Gloria swanson and oh, by the way, father had three sons who became bigwigs in american politics. But Joseph Kennedy was a general manager of this team in quincy, massachusetts, and the quincy, Massachusetts Team had a guy named wally pipp. Yeah. Oh. So while they pep is best known as. The first baseman who gave his job away to lou gehrig started lou gehrigs record streak of consecutive games, played. But what people forget about wally is that he had led the league twice in home runs. He was a great player and he actually he actually tutored gehrig he had in playing first base and how to get along with the yankees and how to get along with mr. Ruth here to another great player who played for forever was a guy named Dutch Leonard a pitcher and thats leonard had pitched a no hitter for the red sox that then im a longtime red sox fan. And in 1914 he had an under one era, a so everybody remains, oh, 225 innings under one under 100. 94i think is that the all time record so everybody thinks of bob gibson as 1. 12 in 68 as the all time record but thats leonard really holds a modern record. So i learned from bethlehem globe stories about some of the great games that were played in bethlehem, and there a doubleheader in july of 1918 played at lehigh, a baseball stadium, which had the four river team. Thats a team against the bethlehem team. Jeff, the pitcher from the giants. Matched up in the first game and thats leonard wanted to zip struck out 18 batters sam fishburn got two of the three hits off of Dutch Leonard so sam would have a great a great year. I also learned from the best times of stories that the bethlehem like they made up the rules on the sly so one team back then there were no outfield fences and some of the places so the crowd form the outfield fence. So they had to declare if a ball bounced the crowd, that was an automatic double. So one team forfeited a game when the umpire declared it an automatic triple. Another team was another game was forfeited because of an so an alleged illegible ineligible player. Most of these games were benefits for world war one, red cross, you know, and all of that there are only 19 games played during the Bethlehem Steel League. Another reason why its very hard to document it since was a shed such a short time, so the players during this time because they didnt want to play such a short schedule they joined other leagues, played other teams. The best team, for example, played a league teams. They also played other teams at military bases, include camp merritt in jersey. There was a separate shipyard league that bethlehem steel was of so Shoeless Joe Jackson and they played for the Wilmington Team. He played for the wilmington the Bethlehem Steel League, he played for the Wilmington Team and like Coast Shipyard league and ill get to that later. So 19 games are played still, ten intensive and ends up with an 11 eight record. The bethlehem team ends up with an 11 eight record. They have a best of three playoff september seventh is the very first game. Its in steelton stilton wins, september 14th, the game is played at the city field in bethlehem. Elizabeth and center street, Charles Schwab. I told you about the soccer team at bethany still being so important what Charles Schwab bethlehem steel field built in 1914 for his team. It the very first soccer stadium america with a grandstand with with seats so steelton and the bethany team face off in this do or die game for bethlehem and it goes into extra in the 10th inning and the top of the 10th hitting the tie is broken by a stilt in second base. Then named joe mccarthy. So joe mccarthy became much better as the manager of the new york yankees during the famous gehrig. Ruth missouri murderers row year. I think he won. They won like or nine championships in his 15 years. So joe mccarthy ended up in the hall of fame too there ended up for five hall of famers played the Bethlehem Steel League that gives you an idea of the motley crew but a lot of influential people so steelton won the championship on september 14th, 1918. They ended up where of getting a gold watch. Is that eugene grace, the president and shortstop gave them i once again thats a fact. Ive learned this fact not from the globe articles but from archive. The steelworkers archives here in bethlehem in 1918, bethlehem steel launched a newsletter called the beth and booster. Once again, rank and file, keep the workers interested. And every issue carried stories about the Bethlehem Steel League. And i found out about grace giving the gold watches to his players, the steelton players. I also found out i got a picture of sam fishburn and his bethlehem steel used for, and they ran a little profile of the bethlehem booster. Sam fishburn, and they said not only is the great shortstop and hitter, but he is an excellent accountant who also recites poetry. Thats the sort of news that we want to know. So sam had a really good season. He finished second to shoeless joe in stolen bases during the league. He was first in sacrifice heads. Shoeless joe like, you know, you would expect, led the league he had 393 but the crazy thing is and i learned from the bethlehem booster newsletter if you can imagine shoeless joe actually said that hitting and the steel leg was harder than hitting in the American League because because he was facing pitchers. He didnt know. And because the rag tag schedule and all this. So the very same that steelton beat bethlehem, the steelers, the championship shoeless joe was playing in the baker bowl and fell which was home to Philadelphia Phillies back then. He was playing for shipyard league championship. So his team that day. I love this fact that they hit two home runs to help his team, a shipyard team win the championship. The workers and the box seats, the Steel Workers showered him with towels, bells. Oh, he ran the field, scooped up 60 bucks. 60 bucks in 1918 was a royal. Ryan said and this is during game and he goes behind plate and gives the 60 bucks to his wife. Yeah sure thats joe so so i havent talked about this guy yet. So babe ruth actually the lebanon team after, the league, the steelers, they had finished their season. He basically joined lebanon for exhibition games. He recruited by pop culture who knew him because pop had been a scout for the st louis browns in the American League. And he was also recruited by a catcher named sam agnew, who was babe ruth catcher for the red. So many people know babe ruth as a slugger for the yankees, but he was he began as a tremendous pitcher for the red sox. 1918 was a pivotal year for him. He won two games in the world series. The red sox won the championship. He set a consecutive innings streak that wasnt broken until whitey ford in the sixties, 29 and two thirds straight shut innings. Babe ruth that year, he also played he became sort of like a full timer for the first time. He played 782 games in the outfield and first base. He was sitting in for a lot of players who had gone off to the military. He hit 11 home runs. He led the American League 11 home runs today, some guys had 11 home runs and three quarters of a month, you know, they hit 11 home runs with their hands behind their back, you know, kicking balls. He also had led the league in slugging percentage. He is a big man on campus. So having an 11, it was great. He played in four exhibition games for 11 and and for team in redding called the red steel and casting company team. He didnt get a single hit. He walked once. He struck out four times. He did do a little bit of nifty relief pitching. He walked once, leading to a victory for his team, but he basically was a tremendous boost in morale, so much so that the the mayor of redding, pennsylvania, wrote a letter to the general of the redding steel and casting team saying thank father. The games were played on sunday in redding, which was one of the few cities in pennsylvania that did not have a blue law. They could serve buy you could buy alcohol. So the mayor of redding wrote a, thank you note to the redding steel general manager for for a making sure that steelworkers came to these games with made it less likely that they would drink at home on sundays which made it more likely that they would be productive more productive on the line and days. So i love this so babe did not make a great influence at the plate or in the field, but he left a big mark in lebanon, pennsylvania. First of all, he lived in three houses, including a bethlehem steel old row house. He had bills with the butcher and the mechanic that ditched on. He never, never paid the butcher, never made that okay. But the best story, maybe its apocryphal, maybe its mythical, alleged, really . He gave a he that we know he gave a fur coat to a woman he had sexual liaison with and she allegedly bore a babe ruth child. So i learned all this fact from an unpublished book by, a guy named gary gates, who grew up in lebanon he was a maybe still is a religion adjunct religion teacher and he worked at beth and steel. More importantly, he had grandfather who was there at the time when babe ruth had Rogers Hornsby and stan covid lasky were playing for lebanon. So once again, babe, a big footprint, 11 men while leaving very poor footprint as a player. So babe the armistice is signed november 11th, the formal end of world war one, Bethlehem Steel League, of course, is dissolved. Theres no reason major leagues will go back to their their day jobs. Ruth left lebanon on november 13th. The Lebanon County Historical Society has is beth. Im still card, which shows him signed up until february 1919. So ruth when you talk about the nominal he was supposed to be a blooper print messenger for the hundred plant theres no record that he ever delivered blueprints but there is a record from gray to the grandfather and his pals of babe putting his very shiny fancy shoes up on a desk with a silk shirt, smoking a big cigar and signing autographs and juicy stories. But once again, this was a morale builder. So, you know, bethlehem steel bigwigs didnt care about that. Babe was doing his job. So 1919 rolls around and it becomes very important year for both. Babe ruth and Shoeless Joe Jackson. Babe ruth hits 29 home runs for the Boston Red Sox. That is a Major League Record. Did he continues to be a very effective pitcher. Shoeless joe jackson leads his Chicago White sox team into world series for the second time in three years. It becomes a very problematic famous of the scandal world series because shoeless joe and his Chicago White sox agree to throw the world series. The cincinnati reds, because their assured of 10,000 apiece, which is much more than they were making as a wise white sox players. So the scuttlebutt the 1920s comes along and shoeless joe along with is implicated at white sox teammates is thrown out of baseball for good now shoeless joe to his dying day insisted that he gave up. He did not accept the 5000 bucks that he was due that was supposedly given to by a white sox pitcher named lefty williams, who actually played shoeless joe for that shipyard team. And won the championship. Yes. You comment shoeless joe had 375 in the 1919 world series when he was he nasty that did that is a big debate know he had 375 he had 12 hits which was a major record for the world series. So why would he why would he be giving up the world and playing so well . He that himself and many other historians have argued that i actually wrote an article about what im talking about for the society of american baseball research. They have a news actually devoted to the black sox scandal. Who would have thought, you know, thats how maybe he would have hit for 75 . He didnt take it by tuesday. Maybe he behaved less pressure on him. You know, he could have had much better. So it became a myth and he end up playing on teams all around. Theres actually a shoeless joe museum, his hometown in south carolina. Babe ruth, of course, was traded to the yankees in 1920, hitting 29. Home runs for the ends. The red made him a much bigger marquee next year. Its 59 home runs, 54 home runs for the yankees becomes a mythic figure. But death until like even though he didnt play in the season he still played for the team and i end my talk by saying give you the second part of what i began the lecture with when babe hit all of those balls out of the lebanon plans stadium. I love that story. One ball the babe had gotten the grandstand went over the clubhouse, went over creek, went over a warehouse. Steelworkers was standing, watching babe ruth hit this homerun. The estimated length their ball was 700 feet. So the Major League Record for a homerun in length is mickey mantle, 53 565 feet in washington, dc. So babe ruth, mythical homerun, a legend, you know, homerun. They hit a home run and im forgetting where. But he supported supposedly one 587 feet, another 1880, not 1918, 1990. And there was actually an ad in the paper somewhere 20, 25 years ago. And the guy said anybody witnessed or directly heard about babes 587 homerun, please contact me. And i dont know what happened, but that was supposed to be fun. And the dead ball era. Well, you know back then a tape measure homeruns metrics were not big they they been introduced theres a very fine biography of ruth by jane levy who wrote the best hands down biography of sandycove fact, who lives in the lehigh valley. It is anybody know that sandy koufax lives in his house . I, i bowed down to no reason to sandy one of the more than 160 who have played in the major league. So this homerun that theyve the alleged 700 foot homerun goes over the grandstand and ends up in a train bound for ohio. So i say i and my wife, my story for the srp, our newsletter is saying even paul bunyan have laid down his acts and homage to that homerun. And that is the end of my talk. I welcome questions. And i wanted to just say one thing. I always try promote the yankees. And the second best player in baseball history, mickey mantle, would have been 91 today to show. Thats a good thats a good tribute. So there wasnt any kind of a balancing act there. What were your tigers on this birthday night . I mentioned the red sox and the yankees, i kind of balanced it. So at any other whats on your mind, folks . Can can you talk about the of piecing together of these stories . Im really struck by this like idea that this is a crossroads moment where all these paths are intertwining. What what has it been like going through archives and records and trying to piece it together . Well, im a journalist, so thats what i do for a living. But im also the morning call me the chance to do a lot of archive work. So im very familiar to archives and for my books. Ive gone through archives too, so i love the although i wish the best. Somebody please give enough money to the beth American Public library can get a really decent microfilm machine because. You know im im 64 i wear glasses. I dont want to kill my eyesight anymore. So going through 1918, beth and globe stories was a killer. But it was great because john wanamaker, who wrote these stories for the globe, got the personal lives of the players he talked to players who worked for the plans, drop forwards and open hearth. One of the players evidently claimed his own house. He didnt want to pay a maid to do going through. When i went to the steelworkers archives and discovered that news that of the beth ann booster i actually saw photographs of the first time of some of these players. What i mentioned the photograph of sam fishburne. I have to tell you, sam fishburne, after he pop, cole shared saint Louis Cardinals cardinals scout life. Sams played so much, he signed him to play for the cardinals 1919. Sam had six at bats, two hits. But Rodgers Hornsby was a second baseman, shortstop and you werent going to get you replace Rogers Hornsby. So sam work for beth im still but he ended up becoming much known as the founder fish for reality which is im bradstreet in bethlehem. And in 1999, my very first house was sold by fitchburg realty. So i sold my very first picture of sam and the beth and booster. But i also saw a picture of a guy named eddie plank. Eddie plank was a left handed pitcher, a spitball there back in the day for the philadelphia as and the same those brands he won over 700, 300 games. Hes in the hall of fame, too, at this point he had just retired from the major leagues and he was running a buick dealership in his hometown of gettysburg but he loved the idea of returning baseball. And thats how he signed up for the steelton team, one of the rarest autographs. Really . Yeah. If you if you find any play, its worth a ton of money. Ill keep that in the 300. I know. And i love the name eddie plank. You know Discovery One of my favorite discovery is just when you piece everything together was the the four on the bethlehem team. The fact that two played in the major leagues, the fact that i love the fact that al schacht, who became the clown of baseball, he was born in an apartment complex that was raised for a Yankee Stadium to be built. And i was shocked. Ended up running a very popular midtown manhattan restaurant that was featured in the film breakfast at tiffanys. So and ive already could go on what his name, al schacht. The restaurant. The restaurant was shaqs restaurant, you know, just like toots teachers and all that. Yeah. But because it was a prince, the first clown prince. We all know that max patinkin, your second clown prince, he well known. And he had the he had the panache, the resonator draw people there. So and just when the hard digging was fun and some of it you can, you know, the internet, the saber website has had some articles about the bethlehem steel like. But i was able to really to get even even deeper personal and being gone. Im sorry. Go on. Now, can you tell me one of the things that was interesting about 1918, of course, was the spanish flu. And theres a picture of a ballgame and theres a picture, a close up of the the hitler, the catcher and the umpire. And then maybe 30 or 40 people in the stands beyond there. And you know what . Theyre wearing masks. Yeah. Yeah. Im glad you mentioned that, because i imagine that 1918 was a very big year for ruth on the baseball field. But his father died. He was very close to his dad and he contract the flu, he was one of i think, 565,000 americans had, the spanish flu that year. There is a picture for for revere. I forget his name, but this is something i learned from the death members for news that he led the bathrooms field league and wins with seven and he died that year from the spanish and the death and booster newsletter would actually have obit on workers who died from the flu. So im glad you mention that. I wonder i wonder ruth was doing all these things of you mentioned other players. I wonder how much that he got involved with Non Major League activity that there might have been some balancing act between, you know, wanting to go somewhere else and, you know, going from the red sox to the yankees. Im just wondering how how that played out. You know what you mean . What other big fans like Walter Johnson and ty cobb and they stayed with team, you know, while they stayed with one team. But i wonder how much they played in the off season. Well, if you read jane levys book biography of ruth. Yeah, its mainly focused on ruth as the contractual, you know, the jane leavy biography of ruth. Of ruth. Ruth that come out okay, thats mantle. And then ruth kovacs. Mantle and ruth were there. She on ruth traveling america and building babe ruth brand. So he the one of the reasons why he died so early, he wore himself out and he wore himself had not by only eating so many hotdogs and drinking so many beers and having so many steaks for breakfast, but not on the pressure of being a great player too. But he would go and do the promotional gigs and you know, theres that famous scene in the natural where a babe ruth type character, you know, faces a natural. The robber redford character, and is struck out. And babe ruth had, those situations and he did wear himself out, but he became, the most famous man in, the world. And he had that famous crack that he not only earned money than the american president , he had a better year than the american president because he deserved the money. So that was the deal more than any other player. You know, he had a brand today many players have brands well they have the reggie but it never took off like what were comparative to to what they were earning as players professional players what were they earning in this league and this say thank you mentioning that ruth got 250 per game and 500 hours weekly. Sallah so the other players throughout the league they their salary was not as high but they would get 200 to 250 a game, which wasnt bad compared to their, you know, regular major league salary. Some major leaguers were earning two or three 4000 a year, and thats why the members of the white sox at the opportunity their in 10,000 bucks for losing the world series you made 10,000 in the early to mid teens i think. Yeah you earned 10,000. Yeah yeah. And his last year was 1917. Yeah. So he was doing pretty well. I know one other story id like to that that reminds me pop culture had a significant afterlife along with ruth and Shoeless Joe Jackson. As i mentioned, he was a scout for, the saint Louis Cardinals and. That pop culture ended up sending and signing so many famous people, managers like Danny Murtaugh of the pittsburgh pirates, joe schmidt, who managed the seattle pirates, but he signed stan musial pop culture and he signed joe medford, ducky madrick and both of those guys are in the hall of fame. Another thing in a fascinating fact that i learned along way is that pop culture he didnt swear very christian, but he was an intellectual at the same time he was managing the lebanon team in skilling, he was the athletics director, all break out in redding and. He chaired the colleges, latin and greek departments. Wow. Pop culture spoke latin and greek bird was like that. Moberg another one of the hundred 60 plus who played the major leagues . Yep. So any other things, folks . Im here to answer. Yeah. You mentioned the. Steel field. Yeah. Who was that . Billed as a soccer field. Go to the soccer field in 1914. Today know its Moravian College and universitys athletic and it was used as a baseball field during that i have to set the stage for you that final game a championship game between bethlehem and stilton. There were 5000 people at that game. There were so many people that they actually stood in the Tennis Courts beyond. If there was no fence out there, it was a benefit. Not for the red cross, but all the processes you played a quarter, half hour or a buck to see that all the money went to pay for tobacco for soldiers. What . Yeah, but it was a great, you know, great, you know, joe mccarthy future hall of fame second baseman eddie plank, who in relief for stilton hall of famer sam fisher, who was a firm sold by, first of all, on the same field that day, was only pitcher who faced both babe ruth and mickey mantle. I know that. You tell me. Ill. Benton. How and who did he pitch . Oh, boy. Philadelphia. Im not sure, actually. He. He started his career, the end of babes career, and finished his career in 52. The mantle, of course, started in 51. All right. So heres old pitcher and you are a founder. Trivia. Yes, sir. Did they play in the leagues . They did, yeah the bethlehem team, according to the played the brooklyn royal giants. And they were i forget the fellows name, but the man and player manager was a guy who was so good. He was the black honus wagner and he this fellows name should remember his name. Hes he was elected. Hes in the hall of fame to he didnt play in the Bethlehem Steel League, but he played an exhibition against the bethlehem team in the steel league and, you know, the military teams, the teams, they were good competition, very good build. James claims that honus wagner in 1908 season was the greatest that any hitter ever had better than aaron judges 2022. Yeah. What was that . What was . Your finger down there. Look, you where we who know baseball remember bobby bonds judge struck out 175 times this year. Bonds would hit 50 to 70 homeruns and strike out fewer than 50 times. Thats the standard i go by. So anyway, red sox versus yankees. I grew up in new york. I grew up on the eastern and the long island. Two towns from where carl yaz is. Fans grow up. Thats why . I became a red sox fan. But if you live on the eastern end of long island, the hamptons is its like new england half the yankees because youre only 2 hours from the city but across the water from connecticut in boston so you get red sox games so half the yankees have red sox. So i carry this, you know, debate, this dissension in my back pocket. I think theres a good, good photo of babe ruth on tuesday this was my train of thought. Sorry, babe ruth all with ted williams . Yes. In like 1939 or 40 or something. Its a good shot. Another trivia question. I dont remember the guys name, but theres one guy who replaced i forgot, replaced ted williams. Now forget about i was going to ask a question. Yeah. Name the guy. You mean a pinch hitter that. No, the guy who went out when ted williams hit his famous final homer in his final at bat. And then he came in. Yeah so the fans could cheer him because we all know and then who replaced him left field i forget yeah. Anyway thats somebody who did pinch hit for baylor and he said ted williams, the one guy pitcher ted williams and one guy pinch hit for hank aaron. Thats it. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, good trivia. Thats why we love baseball trivia. And stats. And, you know, that keeps us digging out there, keeps us yakking the. Yeah, i know. Well, thank very much, folks. Thank you