By a panel of experts to discuss the pros and cons of the approach. To finish up the American Action form. As we go through the program encourage the audience choose the live at urban. In addition for those viewing please send the questions via email to events at urban. Org. Some monitoring emails to be folded into the discussion. People people in the audience today there, cards on your chairs, all the other q a sessions will pass run a microphone. That is it for the housekeeping announcements. Will talk to our keynote speaker. Senator senator wyden is a senior senator from morgan having served over two decades. His currently the Ranking Member on the Senate Finance committee which oversees policies, trade policy, social security, social security, medicare and medicaid and others. Hes known for his work ethic and commitment to developing Bipartisan Solutions traditions problem including broadbased tax reform. Several years ago he teamed up to develop a tax reform that was analyzed to determine was revenue neutral. The bill was updated the senator coats they look for Bipartisan Solutions. We have more in common than a longstanding interest in tax. We both have degrees in an interest in basketball. So the senator is by far skilled player. To kick off the events will have remarks from senator ron white. [applause] keeping the basketball analogy in perspective i think we got the nba allstar sphere of the tax reform debate at urban. Eric and mark is a wonderful crowd. Thank you for the inflationary introduction. Each time you you come here your introduction gets more inflationary. Were now at the point where i can save my parents would have loved it and probably wouldve believed it. Thank you for that. This program cannot be more timely. We have the administration saying they are going to do tax reform by august. I want to give you a sense of how i think the debate will play out and then come around fullcircle to what i think is the prerequisite for doing it right and that is a bipartisan approach. Everyone remembers the Trump Campaign slogan. Make America Great. It is supposed to be in coffee mugs at the west wing. When you bring up a policy issue with the administration they always say this is part of we are going to make America Great. I want to start by saying when it comes to taxes, as of now the Trump Administration is not going to make America Great again. Theyre going to make tax shelters a great again. Im going to outline some specific so that we can really frame the discussion. Nothing could be clearer then carried interests. This is a favorite of of wall street use by Investment Fund managers to redefine their incomes and shrink their tax bills. On the campaign trail candidate trump singled out carried interest is the loophole he was going after. It looked like he and jeb bush would race each other to see which one of them could pounded into populist turf. Candidate trump said the Hedge Fund Guys are getting away with murder. They paid nothing. Its ridiculous. That earned him a lot of applauds from across the spectrum. It it added to the groundswell that helped him get elected. The problem is the trump pledge carried interest turned out to be another head fake. Since election we havent been able to find a tweet about it. Apparently hedge fund fund guys getting away with murder wasnt quite enough because when you do the math, instead of those Hedge Fund People paying their fair share, the trump plan actually gives them a 37 tax cut. So juxtapose what was said in the campaign with what you get when you do the math and its not exactly what its cracked up to be. When he couple couple that with the Capital Gains change, if you can find another gimmick which apparently the white house and the Majority Party are looking hard for, you can get on another path to drive your tax rate down by just redefining it as a capital gain. Of of course all of this is just to post by the fact that ronald reagan, that wellknown socialist. The wellknown lefty was happy to do tax reform that said income from wage and investments are to be treated equal. Second example of how were looking at making tax shelters great again loose from the trump side is the infrastructure proposal. In the 82 tax credit on the Equity Private investors put up for project. I wanted understood, i dont take a backseat to anybody in terms of investing in infrastructure. Im proud that in 2009i wrote the build america bond program. Nobody had an idea of how it would turn out. More than 180 billion for the funds were sold within a year and half. Theres a way to get private money off the sidelines but not by doing something to give away to developers. The reality here is, talk about tax shelters. This is manna from heaven for those who were fortunate investors. It is 2 tax credit on the equity they put in. No guidelines or restrictions on the projects your financing. The american taxpayer just heaving money straight into the pockets of the most fortunate. My sense is that without anything resembling ground rules youll get billions of dollars if you pass it in this way going toward the projects that wouldve gone and head without much taxpayer heaven. By the way, case youre curious how this would be paid for, the theory as it would be paid for by tolls on workingclass families. To talk about the tax systems and breaks for people at the top paying for with workingclass people and to my guesses some of them voted for donald trump because he didnt think he would do things like put tolls on them. My third example of how tax shelters would be great again is the dynasty trust. Be on the Marie Antoinette type name and look at how the shelter works. The gimmick that allows most fortunate to avoid paying state taxes not just for a generation or two, but forever. Underline forever. Now, the Obama Administration came for with a really radical idea. They said, lets limit the loophole to 90 years. Not long enough apparently to folks, and maybe some of that has to do with the fact that their point man, secretary Steve Minasian has particular interest in this tax shelter since he had one of them among his nine trusts. Heres where it gets even figure. There is evidence that numbers working with the white house want to appeal the state tax altogether. Were talking about them helping the release then marginal taxpayers at the very peak of the income scale. I talk about American Farmers are Small Business owners or middleincome people, were talking about people at the very, very top. For example of how they are back to businesses coming from the most obscure corner of debate but can really show how tax cut can be commandeered to make tax shelters great again. This one is known of the economic substance doctrine. I know that people this weekend are not going to be going to the coffee shops of americans said lets dive deep into the economic substance doctrine. Not dinnertable conversation. But judges developed the doctrine of economic substance over the years as a way to shut down tax shelters. The Affordable Care included a provision strengthening the application aiming to shut down more shelters. It has made a difference. Now republicans want to repeal it. That brings me to the issues im going to wrap up on. My sense on where things are and why i continue to believe that there are opportunities that people want to set aside these kind of policies i just described and do bipartisan tax reform right which has a model that we can look to. My own view is the heart of the text challenge is dealing with what i describe as the tale of the two tax codes. If you are away earlier, a nurse and oregon were a welder, your your taxes come out of your paycheck. Right out. They are compulsive year. No special deals in the cayman islands. You see the numbers right on your paystub. Thats one tax system. Then we have another tax system for the well connected. They have this talent in lawyers and accountants and they make it their specialty to do tax gains. So in the second world you can, to to a great extent pay what you want, when you want to, and if you really clever, virtually nothing at all. When i look at what is now on offer by the Trump Administration and republicans in the congress, i dont see anything that roots of the unfairness that i just described. In fact, it would get a lot worse. The presence of the team is working on a phenomenal tax plan. Phenomenal, that will be released soon with massive tax relief for the middle class. Now, Stephen Nguyen came to the finance committee and i said i think that sounds pretty good. He had been talking about how there would be no absolute tax cut for the upper class. They said that sounds good in the talked about in the office so we sat down with the committee i said im really pleased about this. I think were going to call the minutia and rule. Set i to the nominee. Heres how steve responded to me. And i will quote here. Senator wyden, by the way i want to i want to thank you for now and great to see of having the minutia and rule with both the buffett rule of vocal rule. Rule. I take that as a great complementary said mr. Minasian, the nominee to head the Treasury Department to me. Sounded pretty thrilled by it. He reiterated the menu chin rule multiple times since the hearing. Heres the problem. The numbers do not add up. Im sure we have press folks in the audience and you can see articles written to go through table after table that show how the new chin rule is broken giving tax relief to the fortunate by hundreds of billions of dollars paid for by taking Insurance Coverage and tax cuts for healthcare away from working families. Still waiting to see in the Affordable Care act debate what happens to those tax changes, but in the bill in 2015 the republicans in the house took away the medicare tax change. Then medicare tax change is important because everybody in america pays a minute medicare tax with every paycheck. In 2015 they said they said it will be cuts only one group of people, the most fortunate in america, one group that least needs relief would get the relief under the medicare tax and we know the demographics of medicare which is why the change was made in the first place. So the new general is really on the road. Its pretty early on but with the trump plan slashing rates for the fortunate across the board at a cost of trillions of dollars by eliminating key exemptions filing status the Trump Campaign plan raises taxes on millions of middleincome families. On another can explain that one to the middle class folks in wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania never thought they were have their taxes go up. His murder to talk about with the board or adjustment proposal and what that could mean for working families. I sumo talk a little bit about that in questions. Get in the sign in the back. I want to close with why i continue it up every day and say i want to be part of a hopeful effort to do bipartisan tax reform right. Now comes from a new chin says the administration was energy their their bill by august and if they want to do it they can do it on a strictly partisan basis and bulldoze their way to this. Its not sustainable and it wont be good for america. You have to give every body in america the chance to get ahead. With with the consumer driving 70 of the American Economy you have to give a fair shake to the working families of those people who are going to drive much of the economic activity. We can do a bipartisan plan. Judge gray sat in my Office Almost every week for two years and we produced what is still the first and only bipartisan federal income tax reform bill since 1986. The reality is, mark mentioned the score, both sides have valid points. My side believes that the tax code has been captured by powerful special interests. Put me down for subscribing to the point of view. Republicans said the tax code is a mess, it doesnt bring the certainty and predictability you need to drive decisionmaking in the private sector. Put me down saying i can support that too. Those are sort of the principles that were part of 1986. I have been a part of writing bipartisan tax reform bills. I would like nothing more than to be part of writing the third one that becomes law. The reason i wanted to come today, and our bills by the way have republican sending on to making the texaco more progressive. More progressive. You can do bipartisanship but its not about taking each others bad ideas, its about taking each others good ideas and in the tax code is about giving everybody in america, not just the fortunate few, the opportunity to get ahead. I appreciate what youre going to do today. It can couldnt come out a better time. Well have some questions, supple questions are welcome. Thank you for having me. [applause] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] lets get started with the q a. Ill start off with a supple question you asked for. Do you see similar proposals out there that can help with Infrastructure Investment . Heres where we are with infrastructure. First and foremost, we have to locked down Public Investment in infrastructure. In other words am a big supporter of a thoughtful bipartisan effort to get additional money from the private sector in the infrastructure. Senator schumer has proposed a trillion dollar infrastructure plan in effect, i have very much for that. It speaks to the public side which is what we have always said will be the traditional approach to making sure that we adequately funded bridges, roads, and infrastructure. It looks even broad and the definition out. I believe if we can lock down public side of the infrastructure debate i think we will have a chance to talk about the private side. Senator john hoban and i have, for for some time worked on a proposal that in effect uses the states to drive the system as it relates to infrastructure. We call that move american funds. The goal is to try to have a liquid kind of vehicle on the private sector side. The first thing that has to be done in order to make real, bipartisan headway is that we have to locked down that there will be a robust public funding and i am a cosponsor of senator schumers bill. A question from the audience deals with plans for corporate integration. Do you see any perceptiveness with corporate integration proposal . First of all, senator hatch and i have tried to find ways to cooperate on taxes. By the way the 2015 tax bill, and you can debate what the longterm ramifications are, its an indication that parties can find common ground. There are matters that republicans were interested in with respect to business. My caucus said we want to make sure the earned income tax credits and the child benefit the American Opportunity art for students to go to college was going to be made permanent. Each side priorities. In my view was that they were also good for the longterm approach to taxes and we did things like make Permanent Research and Development Tax credit. Theres theres an addition to the bills and senator coates and senator coates joked at one point and said one sure way to get involved is to have you with taxes. The 2015 bill is a good model because both sides cap priorities they were interested in the made sense for the longterm reform that we are to pursue. Have not gotten the latest update sherman hatches corporate integration approach. The last i heard heard they were working on the scoring. We had working groups in the last congress that i will do everything i can to try to find a bipartisan tax reform, i call it principal bipartisanship each side gets principles that help promote a thoughtful reform. I could imagine if common sense does not prevail we do not recognize the value of bipartisan tax reform i could see for example, the house taking its tax reform proposal and by the elway there is no question in my mind whether republicans in particular Senate Republicans looking at this border adjustments idea because i am watching them on tv when your colleagues are on tv camera in the republican ideas that usually does not look encouraging it usually shows that it will not end well. So if you want to bulldoze this known as reconciliation to set that aside with health care and taxes i have suggested to republicans on health care with that reconciliation on health care we have a chance to Work Together one of the first things we do with the Affordable Care act to have to fix individual insurance market. The to make insurance pool bigger. And to help people get back in the game. And an opportunity to be the partisan schemes and there are some opportunities to do some good work. With the republican colleagues is there any interest to will berate proposal . I think that might to bills and the proposal so correct me if i am getting the details right but the camp proposal would pick up what we have done to increase the standard deduction for the working class people to put money in their pocket. So of the border adjustment will tank what would we do next in the house . Even going with that group because it to pay for that. I dont know and how they reconcile that about