Youre in person or online. Its its my pleasure to be able to host this on behalf of the Heritage Foundation. Im the director of the devot center here, which is the center at Heritage Foundation that handles the issue of life. And this is a historic week obviously. In fact, i cant imagine a better time for us to host this event than the one that we have this morning. I want to mention that were cohosting this with our friends at the National Review institute in the ethics ethics in Public Policy center. So thanks for joining us. So we are packed with a discussion about this brand new book. And so i know you all know about this, but its a brand new book by Ryan Anderson and alexander de sanctus and so afterwards for those of you that are here in person. Feel free if we have copies of the book for sale. You can get them signed and you can actually talk to the authors well, but let me just very briefly. Introduce our panel and then ill hand it over to them first our moderator. This morning is Catherine JeanLopez Catherine is a senior fellow at the National Review institute where she directs the center for religion culture and civil society. Shes also added to her large at National Review and has been on the Editorial Staff of National Review since 1997. So catherine i assume you must have started as a College Intern given that shes published widely in catholic and secular publications. It is also a nationally syndicated columnist with andrews mcneil universal. Shes the author of a year with the mystics visionary wisdom for daily living and speaks frequently on faith in public life virtue and prayer. Ryan andersons the president of the ethics in Public Policy center and hes also the Founding Editor of the public discourse, which is the online journal of the witherspoon institute. And he also is is not in his bio, but he was actually my predecessor here at the Heritage Foundation for many years. Hes author coauthor of five books including this brand new book tearing us apart, but its previous book which has the distinction of being banned from amazon is when harry became sally responding to the transgender moment. Andersons research has been cited by two Supreme Court justices Justice Samuel alito and Justice Clarence thomas in two Supreme Court cases. Alexandria de sanctus is a visiting fellow at the ethics in Public Policy center where she covers abortion policy in the Prolife Movement is well as other key topics at the intersection of politics culture and religion. She also a staff writer at the National Review institute and does regularly reporting regular reporting for the National Review print magazine as well as National Review online. She also hosts National Reviews podcast for life, and shes a 2016 graduate of the university of notre dame and coauthor with Ryan Anderson of this terrific new book, please welcome our panelists. Thank you all for joining us. I am still cant quite believe this is the first monday after row and yeah, we couldnt have a timely or discussion. Obviously i am were gonna talk a little bit about dobbs obviously up top, but i i have to share so the title of this book is tearing us apart how abortion harms everything and solves nothing and a couple of months ago. I was on the streets of manhattan outside planned parenthood at a witness for life that has been going on for 15 years outside planned parenthood. People praying the rosary across the street from planned parenthood and the new york city for abortion rights people have gotten to know me. They protest our prayer and so one morning they come up to me and say oh Catherine Jean lopez. Thank you for joining us. It was so good of you to join us. What are you going to blame on abortion in the National Review today . And i thought oh my goodness. Theyre reading us. Because theres a whole lot that traces back to abortion as the two of you go through and in the book, so there is hope that we can convert hearts and minds even even who are most hostile. So ryan can i start with you . What were your first thoughts and as as youve been processing what happened . Of course, we knew that that would probably happen. You kind of took a gamble that it would happen on this book because this book is really a handbook for postrow america. And so the timing couldnt be a better so sure. I mean a couple thoughts and one is alexandra and i last fall could count to five when the state of mississippi asked the Supreme Court not only to uphold their 15week law protecting babies after 15 weeks of life in the womb. They didnt just ask the court to uphold that they actually asked the court to overturn row and casey which was a bold move by the states. I think the attorney general on the solicitor general there deserve a lot of credit for doing what conventional wisdom told them not to do conventional wisdom said go for what roberts is going to do in his concurrence and just ask to uphold the 15week bill and then keep row and casey in place. We can count to five thinking theres now five votes to do it, but i think conservatives have been burned so many times by the court that it was was cautious hope right. Its always prepared for the worst because if youre a conservative about this room court for the theft past 50 years. Thats what you came to expect. So even after the leak, were like, this is great. But you know, theres still a chance that the chief pulls someone to his opinion. So friday morning at 10 10 when you know, call us once got his blog refreshing and i actually i guess it was at the Supreme Courts website refreshing because go to splog has the live feed. It was just great. Its actually happening. You know, this isnt, you know, Charlie Brown when you know, the football gets pulled away one more time, but then it was also a sense of like well now we have to work that much harder, you know overturning row was just a preliminary step, you know, we should celebrate we should actually like give a lot of thanks to the past 49 and a half years of prolife scholars and activists. Who made this moment possible be very cognizant that you know, there are people whose names will never be celebrated people who labored largely unknown to us who actually kept one this cause alive and then two like laid the foundation, you know, most every argument that zan and i rehearsed in the book someone else originally developed. You know, we have i dont know 50 pages of endnotes and those are the people who, you know, were building off of but then it was you know, first i would say it was a moment of relief like this actually happened gratitude and then it was now we got to get to work. All right, right. Alexandra you i have to explain if you dont follow her. I was so grateful when you came on the staff of National Review because i never have to read a planned parenthood annual report ever again because you are so on top of everything and its really its really a Great Service that you provide one example would be kate smith from she abc here. Yes cbs and and you just doggedly followed her reporting and instead. She was doing planned parenthoods pr. So now shes actually working for planned parenthood. So congratulations on helping her realize her vocation, i guess what were your reactions to . Yeah friday, i think kind of like ryan said it was not surprising in the sense that we sort of knew it was coming for a long time. But it also was just kind of shocking that it actually was over right when i was growing up. Ive been prolife my whole life and ive been doing this work at nr for six years, which was a microcosm of what most people in the movement have been doing but it just never kind of felt real in my lifetime, this might actually be over right and for it to sink and it almost hasnt sunk and its been a couple days now. Its still kind of like wow rose actually over right . Its so momentous and it almost feels kind of anticlimactic because the fight is now going to just go on right abortions not over today because were always gone, but certainly yeah that the gratitude for people that will never hear about or know most of whom thats kind of why were here right . We know the big names and all those people are important, but all the work has been done at the Grassroots Level that we wont hear about and i think thats really important to keep in mind. And that point that you make is so essential that abortions have not ended in america now. There are some states where trigger laws are now in and whatnot, but also, the reality is their pills by mail, you know abortions are still happening in america and in states like my own new york. Were going to have more abortions our governor. Wants us to be an abortion destination. What a wonderful goal for for a state. Um, one of the things that gives me hope is that polling as you go into makes clear consistently people know what row is they . Dont know its all three trimesters of abortion people who describe themselves as prochoice. They want to know that women in tough situations have options. Theyre not waking up in the morning wearing stickers, i as i got into new union station. I saw people leaving saturdays rally and it says abortion on demand without apology that is not most people in america who describe themselves as prochoice, so if we can get past the media and the mobs, you know, this this book can convince people or at least the facts in this book if we make use of them what gives you hope. Start resin. Yeah, i think like you mentioned just kind of remembering that what we see and hear from the probe Abortion Movement is not where most people are and its kind of hard to remember that because really all we hear about is, you know, most americans have an attend americans support row. How could the court do this or we see the pictures of the angriest people outside the Supreme Court or you know, we see, you know, the pictures of the destruction at Pregnancy Resource Centers at the kind of angriest pro version supporters are now perpetrating, but thats not where most people are and i think most conversations ive had about abortion of people who disagree with me are mainly just worried about women, right and whats going to happen to women and i think part of what kind of brought this the idea for this book to mind was that if this is the taking him innocent human life this isnt good for anybody and so while thats a depressing thought and you know, we have a lot of work to do to convince people of that. Thats actually an amazingly powerful argument right if you can say to somebody women really need this. Im worried about women and you say actually this isnt good for women either. Let me explain why and if theyre sincere they want legal abortion because theyre worried about women and were correct then theyre winnable right and thats i think a huge number of people almost everybody who supports abortion if they actually are openminded they care about whats best for women and for everybody in our society, theyre winnable with not only whats in our book, but probably probably more that the Pro Life Movement has to offer and ryan you you do have a chapter that really gets into how its bad for women like physically and mentally and and you know, one of the things that this book makes clear and we have these are like historic relics. We have some outside the end row issue of National Review where we go into bad science bad law bad history, you know bad for women obviously children die in the midst of this. What good is is there in this can you talk a little bit about some of the most important points in that realm sure. So i would say the most important. Area, this is i guess the Second Chapter of the book about how abortion harms women is the overarching like worldview that it puts forward. So even more important than like the physical harms that both surgical abortion. And then i think its like, you know at a two to three times greater rake the risk of chemical abortion to women, you know greater than the physical harm is greater than like the regret the emotional psychological harm. I would say the way in which abortion as equality. So the Ruth Bader Ginsburg style argument has allowed us to sustain a culture in which the male way of being human the male way of a body embodiment is taken as the norm and my wifes way of being human is somehow it effective version of my way of being human and we structure our Higher Education system our employment system our economy our entire culture around my body being normal her body being somehow dysfunctional for her to be equal to me. She needs to sterilize her body and then if the sterilization fails she needs to kill her child who is viewed as a threat a competitor. To her equality rather than doing what all the original womens rights advocates and this is where alexander and i our colleague at epc erica bakiaki has done such beautiful scholarship pointing out that they took seriously equality. They understood equality did not mean sameness and they wanted both laws and cultural systems social systems to take each way of being human equally seriously and structuring society around the equal dignity of the female way of being human. As penance for my sins. I have a really aggressive confessor and he makes me listen to the New York Times podcast the daily and so this morning when i was driving in i was listening to the daily and they interviewed four different workers at Abortion Clinics that were shut down on friday because of the road decision, which the Dobbs Decision over turning row and it was a tragic listening to this because they really believe that they are now unable to help women experiencing unplanned or crisis pregnancies. And you know some of them, you know broke up during the during the podcast episode saying, you know, i felt so bad. Theres nothing i could do to help this woman, you know, all i could do was give her the name and the phone number of an outofstate Abortion Clinic and not once you know, its an hour. Its a half an hour long podcast interviewing four different employees of Abortion Clinics. Not once that they say, you know, we could help these women choose life, you know, we could help give them other options. To this and just how tragic it. Is that like for the past 49 and a half years row has built up an entire unjust social structure in which womens equality means access to abortion. So one of the things that we hope is like now the people who have been making these arguments like erica for so long now, they have greater purchase, you know, erica was on cbs sunday news yesterday and jan crawford after wait, are you saying that abortions bad for women and her responses . Yes, that is exactly what im saying, and it was as if it was shocking like this is a new revelation that people are hearing it for the first time, but they are hearing it for the first time and thats the importance of what we now have to do i mean what with the court did last friday was open up the space for us to not persuade our neighbors and then the past laws thatll protect both babies and mothers. And we need to be very calm and patient knowing that even though weve been hearing and making these arguments our entire lives. Other people are hearing it for the first time. I i was really struck watching another show by how preposterous the prolife view seem to be to everybody around the table except peggy noon in alexander what gives you hope and and also did anything surprise you in the midst of putting this this book together. Like a positive surprises. Yeah, okay. I dont know that there was much positive in the book and i remember when we were working on the introduction. We we put a heavy emphasis on how all of this is important because life is good because after writing the whole book i was like man, this is awfully depressing we have to remind people this is not just like a grim march through that the kind of history of abortion in the lies that sustain it. Although that is what most of the book is but i think all that is that matters because we all kind of know fundamentally that life is good. I dont know yet besides kind of the winnability of the argument. I dont know that much gives me hope i kind of i like the point ryan raised about people listening now. I think thats true, right it kind of things feel lighter and more open that we kind of have this chance to make the case in a way that we havent and i think road being gone is a good thing obviously because our laws can be changed now, but its good because the other side cant point to it anymore like you used to be the case that when you make the pro life argument the other side would just say, oh its the law of the land right away and this is a constitution go away. Thats not true anymore. And so they might say it used to be the law of the land or you know, the court was wrong, but thats gonna fade away. They cant say that forever. And so i think now theres going to have to be people coming to the table from the other side making their best case, which they dont have a good one, right . They dont their best cases. Its the law of the land they cant say that and so i think you know the fact that that is the new conversation is a good sign for us or a good opening for us. Robbie george from princeton your mentor was on twitter or facebook or something this weekend talking about being at a colleagues house. Whos pro joyce. I saw that and and she had on her refrigerator her grandchilds ultrasound and so they were able to have a conversation just on the humanity the obvious humanity there, you know outside of a context of a political debate, right . And that is where we need to meet people because politics and media are not our friends on this issue necessarily. Obviously we have to have you know, policy and political debates, but its its the place of pouring salt on wounds all too often unfortunately. So the most the more we can leverage relationships to have longterm, you know efforts to persuade the better in the book and i found this helpful being reminded while the deep concern of a woman bearing an unwarranted child merits consideration and sympathy. Its my personal feeling that the legalization of abortion on demand is not in accordance with the value which our civilization places of the human life. Wanted or want unwanted. I believe that human life even at its earliest stages has certain rights, which must be recognized the right to be born the right to love the right to grow old when history looks back at this error. It will should recognize this generation as one which cared about human beings enough to halt the practice of war to provide a decent living for for every family and to feel fulfill its responsibility to which children from the very moment of conception. That was not henry hyde. Would you like to tell us who that was . Right sure. That was senator ted kennedy. Prolife catholic senator ted kennedy before he evolved in this issue for so many i mean you should ask the question. But before i no good, so, you know the question. Yes without even the context in which alexander and i quote that thats a letter from senator kennedy back in 1971 to one of his constituents explaining why hes prolife and its because he was in favor of the little guy defending the little guy at one point the Democratic Party and catholic democrats prolife democrats were all about like, were not looking for the big guy. Were not in favor of corporations. Were in favor of protecting the little guy and whos the littlest amongst us the unborn baby and one by one by one theyve all caved. Theyve all evolved. Theyve all biden durbin. Well, i mean, right its just its an i mean joe biden back in i think with 1982 we cite this in the book. He proposed the hatch amendment which would have more or less done. What dobbs did this past friday is is return the question to the states. Thats what the hatchimal which he voted to just the discharge tradition to get it out of committee. Its just its sad its tragic especially as some of these elected officials are nearing their death. Yeah, like, you know, i actually i pray for their eternal souls because i mean what they have done for the sake of Political Office undermining a basic moral truth, right the basic moral truth about the value of that life in the womb made in the image like this of god and to you know, throw that away just for Political Office. What we point out in that chapter of the book is like how much better would our politics in the United States be if prolife voters had a meaningful choice between two parties neither of which was committed to a fundamental injustice. Now, im conservative in other issues so we can we can debate on the merits various other reasons why you might want to vote one way or the other but it would just be healthier for our polity if Neither Political Party was committed to injustice. So then we could actually debate those other things around the merits but so many voters feel hostage to one Political Party and then of those same voters feel that that Political Party has just taken them for granted, right . So another thing that were now going to enter into is you can no longer just say well im against roe v wade, and ill vote to confirm justices right all of a sudden i will now what are you gonna do right legislation . Are you gonna put forward what legislation are you going to vote for both to protect the child and the womb protect the mother assist that mother and i think this is now going to be kind of a put up our shutup moment for the republican party, right and many of us us who have worked in dc know. Who are those republican elected officials who campaign on being prolife get to dc and then not only do nothing like actively try to undermine the cause in the meetings of leadership right various officials things. Dont bring that bill to a vote. Its divisive right now is the time to actually exercise a moral leadership on these issues and i think well discover. Its popular with voters. Right the Public Opinion polls. I mean there was a stupid tweet over the weekend from the president of france, you know condemning the decision and jobs the mississippi bill protects on where babies at 15 weeks france protects on that 12, right france apparently is more regressive. Its just utterly ridiculous. And as more and more of our voters discovered that that you know, its of the i think there are 42 european nations that allow abortion 39 of the 42 have laws protective more protective than the mississippi law at least as protected 15 weeks or earlier 39 of the 42 european nations that allow of our ocean. We are the outlier right with north korea and china. Yes, which is not company that i want to be right. I know obviously we dont want to end up with europe right if the final kind of like, you know, where we end up in the United States is just to have germany and frances abortion laws, you know considering that i think its 92 of all abortions take place before 15 weeks. Thats not really going to be an acceptable outcome either. These are starting points to the eventual goal of every life being protected and law and welcome to life. Thats still the goal and incrementalism has to be at the service of that ultimate goal. The reason why the tedd county quote gives me hope is that these guys will hopefully when he went to his maker he repented the ones who were still around still have an opportunity and they know better, you know and science and Everything Else knows better and and and dont tell me that they dont enjoy their grandchildrens ultrasound, you know, because of course they do that having been said kathy hokle the governor of new york her first tweet in reaction to the leak of the draft of the Dobbs Decision was to be the moon the fact that she has to fight for her infant granddaughters right to choose like youre seriously thinking about your granddaughter having an abortion and what if your daughter had chosen anyhow, but then can you talk a little bit about do you have hope for the Democratic Party . I mean, you know, youve youve written and in the book you talk about dan lipinski whos heroic man who of course was voted it was primaried out of out of congress. Can you talk a little bit about the democrats . And is there any hope there . Well, i like the that letter in particular and there are a lot of examples of this what ive always thought about. I think my dads the first one who introduced me this thought so i should give him credit for this but if you look at kind of catholic the old catholic prolife democrats, theyre kind of iterations of why they were prolife prerow like that letter for example, they acknowledge that humanity the unborn child right pretty much unanimously then when they they flip flop none of them ever came out and said, you know, ive looked at the science here. I thought about it more and i dont think these are human beings anymore, right . They always evolve and say well ive thought about it. I think you know, its this is about old womans right to choose or a government shouldnt get in between a woman and her doctor or some kind of political euphemism about women. Theyve never said, you know, this isnt a child. I dont ive changed my mind about how i used to think. This was a human being they never said that and so while thats depressing and it shows kind of the callousness of what they did. It also shows that what they thought initially is is true and they know that right a couple months ago when biden was asked about this. He said he used the phrase abort a child, right . He knows what this is. He doesnt again in his rounds on friday. I mean, hes something is probably not quite right with him inside somewhere. He knows that this is a child like everybody does and so i think theres some hope to be found in that right kind of the truth is just in there. We all know what it is in some sense even the people who flip flop for political reasons in terms of hope for the party, i think. I dont know. I kind of wonder how things will shake out and i think there will be different political incentives with rogue on and i dont know i dont have a ton of hope about the national Democratic Party tomorrow, but i you dont know which end is which and the ultrasound technician points this but you know, it was him all the same right . I mean that is exactly what a 12 week old human being looks like and the other down technician, you know, first said, you know, i got the order backwards when i spoke here last night, you know, the first thing is that your babys heartbeat because you know, the first thing theyre trying to do is to detect a heartbeat to make sure your babies thriving in the womb then they say thats your babys face, right . They they never say the word fetus. They never say cardiac polar activity some euphemism for the heartbeat. We all know what it is and i wasnt a birthing person. No, she was a mother its amazing how the centers knew that it was women and mothers all throughout the descent. But so all i would say is just makes it more impactful like deeper because almost theres like an emotional level very cognitive, right . You know, ive read probably tens of thousands of pages on both sides of the abortion issue my first job out of princeton was as robbies robbie georges Research Assistant for a book he was doing title to embryo at offensive human life. He was serving on the president s council and bioethics at the time. I actually like opened up some of the Research Briefs that i wrote for him back in june of 2004 as we were drafting some of the chapters of this book because those notes were still very relevant. The arguments hadnt changed, but i would just say so it didnt change my viewpoint. It just made it more impactful, but the second part of your question was like the role of fathers the role of men. I think this is where this book intersects with some of the work that ive done on the marriage debate and just on human sexuality in general. I do not think we ultimately build a culture of life unless we also restore marriage culture and that part of restoring a marriage culture needs to be restoring a sound understanding. In sexuality, i im you. Im talking off the cuff here. I think the statistic 3 of abortions. Are from or yeah 3 of abortions are from married mothers. That the safest place to be if you are conceived is inside of marriage marriage is the greatest protector of unborn children because marriage helps protect that mother having maggie eller, you know, famously, you know, i first heard this from her and she would make the argument that the way that you get men and women to commit to children is to get men women to commit to each other first and thats why marriage is so important. We can have the best pro family policy in terms of paid family leave and prenatal Child Support and child tax all if we dont actually solve the cultural problem of getting men and women to commit to each other and to stay committed in marriage having people understand that sex is for marriage. Its not Recreational Activity the way that your uber driver also understands. I think it needs to be a both hand that we need to respond to the sexual revolution in its totality and respond to abortion which you know is something that fueled the sexual revolution but is also something that would then became necessary because of the sexual revolution, which is a symbiotic relationship there. We need to be holistic in our response and thats been just an argument that the other side is has made you cant overturn row because our Society Needs it now like everybodys adjusted to and and in the book alexander you talk a lot about the culture and one thing that im always. Affected by is if you spend time outside of Abortion Clinics. Theyre not middle class women, you exercising their empowerment. 17 year old black girls or what . I meet the most in new york city, you know who were being forced by their mothers who were im thinking of one in particular was afraid to tell her her the boyfriend and and anyway i think about those girls you think about the pop culture and the music is telling women use or be used. You know, you got it. You got to use them first and and you know, theyre not taught about abstinence. Thats like unheard of you could never do that. You know, you know these poor guy with the uber with all the women telling them. Hes crazy. Can you talk a little bit about the culture and as you see any . Bright spots keep asking me for hope i dont know. Thats ryan about his home. No, thats a really interesting. Im trying to get you to be more helpful. Ill see you. Ill see if i can get there. I do have some thoughts about this though because the reaction on on instagramust from my age demographic to this decision is appalling and so i think a lot about where these people coming from right that that all these women my age think that their rights have been taking away that their life is over now, like thats obviously i disagree. I think theyre wrong, but its coming from somewhere since youre for most of them and i think its really important to get to the bottom of whats driving that so ill say two things. The first is we actually have an anecdote in the book that speaks very much to what youre saying about the Abortion Clinics. I was doing an interview a couple years ago for National Review and i spoke to us women christina bennett. You probably know her who has done many things in the prayer life movement, but a lot of counseling outside of chris Pregnancy Centers primarily in connecticut, most recently and she told me the story about how there are some pro Abortion Group that was handing out candles that set abortionist magical on them to their volunteers and she said, if i were to take one of these candles to the you know innercity hartford Abortion Clinic and try to hand them out to the girls going to that clinic. None of them want those candles, right . Thats not their reality. These women are getting abortions because they have kids at home and cant put food on the table because their partners forcing them to do it whatever the case might be. Theyre doing an out desperation. This is not some wonderful choice. Theyre making thats good for them. And thats by and large the story of abortion and we hear a very different story like, you know, its great that theyre 80 of planned parenthood clinics and low income minority neighborhoods. Thats not a great thing if thats true and those women really feel like they need it we have work to do and its not to build more Abortion Clinics and i think its all kind of fueled by this this underlying assumption that freedom is just participation in sex at any point with anybody with no consequences and so women my age thank well men can do that, right . Thats what were all doing. Its assumed that thats what what life is about right now men can do that and walk away. Why cant i and so when you overturn roe v wade and maybe in their state suddenly, they cant walk walk away. Right . And this is where goes back to our colleague ericas work walking away from pregnancy for a woman is an active violence against their own child, right and its plenty bad for a man to walk away and abandon the mother of his child and his child, but for a woman thats an act of violence and shes not better off for having to choose that so that she can participate in the you know, fun sexual culture the way men can but thats kind of the lie we have to unravel and so i guess its hopeful in some ways that you know, we can now kind of change the laws and get through to people a little bit more but i think unraveling that is a really really big task and we have to get its very hard to get to the root of that kind of dysfunction. Storytelling is so important and thank you for doing that at National Review. Even in recent days. There was a Washington Post piece about this teenage girl who couldnt have an abortion in texas. Yeah, and the writers clearly wanted us to be outraged that this poor girl has twins now and she and her boyfriend are like making it work and their pictures of them and theyre adorable and were supposed to want those babies to be dead. I i think so because of this reality that you speak to alexandra, theres sincerity here, but the more this is out in the open and its a matter of debate the more it theyre telling the story for us without without realizing it. You know, its quite amazing. But ryan i wanted to ask you i think thats a cause for hope. Yeah, i mean so totally when i saw that Washington Post story, i was like despite their best effort. Yes. This is having the exact opposite impact on readers, right and what they likely intended it to have. And and you know, sharif burgess frequent collaborator coauthor of mine. He has a peace. I dont know if its been published yet on scotus blog or not. Lets go to blog ask them to write a response to jobs and you know, i was reading a draft of it from over the weekend and his last paragraph really struck me as a sign of hope he says, you know right now there are babies alive who are scheduled to be aborted on friday afternoon, but werent because of the Dobbs Decision. And a year from now those babies will be making the transition from milk to solid foods and two years from now. Those babies will be learning to walk and to talk and he just goes through like the litany of like all the life progression. And all because of what the court did this past friday right because already i think its a 12 states that have had laws that already are being enforced protecting unborn babies. Theres another i think about 12 states that you know, theres a 30 day waiting period or the attorney general generosity certify and then those laws are going to like lives are being saved and i think those lives will then be a witness to life. Um, either when Something Like the Washington Post news story happened or just within their communities within their families like this was a baby i was scheduled to abort and i didnt and now a year later two years. Im so glad i didnt right. I mean, i think many of the things that are the greatest blessings in our lives are actually things that we didnt choose for ourselves. We didnt necessarily consent to we might have actively been opposed to it, but it happened anyway, and then only in hindsight, can we then view it as a blessing in disguise and thats not to therefore say that that means that people experiencing on planned pregnancies dont deserve our support they do but i think one way of one thing that gives me hope is that many of these children will then be some of the best witnesses to life . A year from now five years from now 10 years from now and we have to do our part to make it that way that those children are experienced as a blessing in the lives of those families. And that means volunteering that means donating. That means crafting good Public Policy like the whole host of things that we now need to do. So like those children are blessings so that they are experienced as blessings is work that we have to do. Thank you for making. Right on friday. It was the feast of the sacred heart catholic snow and and for reasons, i dont fully understand. Its normally the feast of the nativity of john the baptist on that day, but rare for it was this rare piece of the sacred art and i just thought that really had to be a providential, you know message to us. The planets were also aligned the planners. Yeah for the noncapers. Thank you. Really . I mean we have to lead with with love in everything that that we do from this point on and you were reminding me ryan when you were talking of years ago when the partial birth abortion debate was a thing a thing during the Clinton AdministrationRick Santorum has the story of one night, you know speaking those who watch cspan know the empty floor in the senate, you know, and and he just he he calls his wife karen and said im gonna be home a little later. He just had this nudge that he needed to keep talking. He was debating Diane Feinstein at one point. And anyway, like four years later. He gets the letter from from i think it was the mother. It was the mother of the father. And anyway that night a couple is watching just flipping channels and they stop on cspan for some reason or another and theyre listening to this exchange. And the girl says to her boyfriend. I have an abortion scheduled for tomorrow, and they had a conversation and the abortion didnt happen and there was a four year old. I think there was a picture. You just never know when were having these conversations and obviously when laws were changing, you know, who what lives are being. Saved and yeah, i agree entirely we have to make sure those stories are told because other stories are going to be told to and and we have to be relentless and in focusing on on the good. So we have this is being Live Streaming to this can be watched after the fact cspan is going to be airing it. Not everyone agrees with us. Alexandra, can you speak to that person who either is on the fence or thinks were all. Trying to repress women. Yeah, i think the simplest way to do that is just to kind of explain why the idea for this book came to mind and i think ive spent like i said a microcosm compared to most people working in the Prolife Movement, but the whole time ive been writing about this issue. Ive been thinking to myself kind of this idea has been germinating which is if were right as prolifers that this is the takehome innocent human life. Thats obviously the fundamental harm of abortion. We have to do everything we can to stop that. But if thats true, how could any aspect of this be good for any of us, right . How could it actually be a victory for women . To knock that kind of violence not only against a stranger but their own child. How could it be good for fathers that women are killing their unborn children. How could it be good for the grandparents the brothers the sisters anybody in that family. How could it be good for societies . How could it be good for any of us to live in a society where thats legal or socially acceptable how what kind of society are we if the best solution we have to any set of problems is to kill the most Vulnerable People among us. And so i would just say yeah if you believe abortion is necessary think about why and think about are the problems that you identified and make you think abortionist the solution really solved by perpetrating violence against innocent vulnerable human beings. How are are any of us really better off . Its really a moment where the parties need to grow up and really Work Together to you. You know, what on the matters that we agree with. We agree that that women should we can agree on some paid family leave bill we can and you know, we we can agree on Community Health centers need support, you know, there are things we can agree on of course. There are no political incentives to do that, but we do need some leaders ryan. Whats your so exactly on that both it was i think a week or two ago that romney introduced his legislative proposal. I think rubio was it one friday afternoon itself or review has one in the works that will it hasnt already been released. It will soon be released and republicans are rethinking some of these issues and thats healthy. I mean, i dont need to endorse either of these as like the perfect end all be all but these are constructive signs that there are people on the right side of the aisle willing to say we both want to prohibit. Violence in the womb and we want to make family formation more achievable and we want to make support for women carrying children in their rooms a reality and now, you know, we need to bipartisan part of that to come along with romney and rubio are both on the right side of the aisle, but theres no reason why someone on the left side of the aisle couldnt embrace these bills its it should be a bipartisan matter. You see this happening in the states. So texas got lots of Media Attention for the heartbeat bill that same legislative session. They allocated an additional 100 Million Dollars to the texas alternatives to Abortion Program ron desantis about a month ago signed into law the Fatherhood Initiative in florida a variety of states are doing both and right there. Theyre both prohibiting lethal violence, and theyre providing supports to mothers and theyre providing incentives for family formation for fathers to be involved in the lives of their children marriage, as you know mind the ultimate prolife institution the ultimate social justice institution, so i think these efforts have already been in the works. They are ramping up. They are increasing we should be working with them to make them even better. This was the second. This was 2. 0 over romneys bill. Im sure 3. 0 will be even better. He took into account criticism. He got and he made improvements. Theyre probably other flaws that could be improved even further in his offices willing to continually improve it. We should be participating in those discussions. We also need to be talking about adoption during the dobbs debate and the oral arguments in particularly. There is a backlash against adoption. Also again safe haven laws. Um, we could talk for hours more. Unfortunately. We have to close in a moment, but more conversations. Im sure well have more conversations about this in the coming days and weeks and months really critical to make sure that youre so often women are asked they rather have. They rather choose abortion rather than knowing that they abandoned their child mean while there are so many couples struggling with infertility. Who would love to raise a child to a woman courageously, you know gave birth to and so so many human conversations we have to have and and so many stories we have to tell about the Pregnancy Help Centers and the maternity homes you talk about mary shelter and fredericksburg in in the book and each one of us who considers ourselves for life needs to you as you were you were mentioning earlier ryan think what more can i do because theres so much more than needs to be done. And i know i had a conversation with a reporter on friday and she didnt believe that there were any pregnancy care centers. I mean really honestly didnt believe and so we have so much work to be done and i want to thank you for the work that you do and for this you did this book in an amazingly short period of time. I i am like the queen of blowing through deadlines myself. Im very impressed that you have this ready for this moment tearing us apart how abortion harms everything and solves nothing. Thank you alexander de sanctus and Ryan Anderson and thank you for everyone watching here in person or on live stream or on cspan. Please please buy the book and share it and and please follow the work of alexander to sanctus and Ryan Anderson, and im Catherine Lopez from the National Review institute. Thanking ethics in Public Policy center and Heritage Foundation, obviously for hosting s j richards. Booktv. Org