Transcripts For CSPAN2 Rev. Al Sharpton Righteous Troublemakers 20221102

In forum and the commonwealth club. Im sure ill evans davis the executive director of the San Francisco human rights commission, and im pleased to be moderating. Todays program. I am beyond honored to be in conversation with renown Civil Rights Activists host of msnbcs politics nation founder of the National Action network and author of the new book righteous troublemakers Untold Stories of the social Justice Movement in america. Reverend al sharpton paying tribute to those members of the Civil Rights Movement whose stories have not been given due recognition. The book is a testament to the connections relationships and individuals that the movement was built upon and sustained by so with that lets get started first. I just i cant state enough how much reverend sharpton im grateful for the opportunity to talk. To you and to be in your presence and to have this conversation. So, thank you so much for your time today. Well, thank you cheryl, and im very happy that youre hosting it and i look forward to a very robust and informative conversation. Yeah, i have to tell you. I recently a dear friend of mine. Who is the assessor recorder in San Francisco at Joaquin Torres told me about not told me ive heard of james cone over the years, but he talked to me about some of the some of his books that ive been reading them and i just im going through your book and im having flashbacks of you know, the gospel is black power black power is gospel or the the pedagogue, you know this idea of the press so i have so many questions and at the same time i recently read some of the the sermons and strength to love by dr. King and so to know that you are rooted and grounded in that truth is just all throughout this book. I cant tell you times i wanted to just i did have moments of emotional just feelings and and and as we start i just wanted to ask you even the process of writing. This was this in some way therapeutic or cathartic. This is just so rich with stories. Yeah. It was cathology. Oh in the sense that id say in the book that early in the book that we had in the middle of the george floyd movement. I was actually do oh the eulogy at both his funeral in minneapolis and in houston when it happened his family and attorney ben crawford reached out to me and id gone into minneapolis because some of the marches and reality and then they actually what i come back and do the funeral and in the middle of the eulogy of cheryl for whatever reason it just came out of my mouth we need to go to washington. We need to watch we need to deal with this now you have to remember when the middle of a pandemic he really had the funeral people had to be distance or they were so stars from hollywood. Kevin hart was there you name him was there and i Just Announced his mind on king the third was on the front. And i work together. They are cooperative with nash actually network and we work with his oh group and from me just to and he looked at me like what is he talking about much to watch . We have no plans. We have no budget now does land have the ability to do it, but i announced we pull it off inside of 60 days. We had 200,000 people in a pandemic. We took temperatures as they came in around Lincoln Memorial. And they came to get me out of the tent where we had the families. We had ahmedabris family there. We had George Floyds family there. We had aragondas family about 15 families. Theyre in the 10 and theyre gonna walk with us to the stage where im gonna speak on the steps of Lincoln Memorial and as i was walking, you see all these hordes of people and there was an old man look like hes in his eighties that kept jumping up and down in the crowd with something in his hand. And for whatever reason it caught my and i looked at this pretty guy. Lets look at that old man. What is he trying to tell us and they said, oh she moving revenue. I said no get that old man, and they brought him over to you. And he showed me it was a button. And the button said march on washington freedom. He said theres a button from 1963. I was here in 63 for the march on washington with dr. King and i want to be here with you today. And i hugged the man and he went back into the crowd and it haunted me cheryl i said its guys like that. I dont know how they paid to get to washington. I dont know how even they stayed a hotel. I dont know whether they ate its people like that that make movement and nobody ever talks about them. And thats why i developed this idea that i wanted to write about people that i know that notable thing but never got limelight and thats why i call them righteous troublemakers many of us are troublemakers, but we get me we get some not right. Righteous people that are those that go and know no one is gonna call their name. They dont go home to see if they dont even lose. They dont pick up the paper the next day and see if they on the San Francisco chronicle their for the cause and i wanted to tell some of their story. No, i was moved by that description right . Like i can see you walking into the crowd and and as you were describing that in the book, i just had that moment too of like when you talk about the hundreds of thousands of folks over the years right that have been in those spaces whose stories but the part where you talk about sustaining the work and moving the work and the line where you say we came to stop trouble right like that idea of righteous troublemakers like that. That is trouble right when you are trying to stop it you cause in trouble for somebody else. Its good trouble is john lewis would say right and see i think you know the the whole way of naming people trouble me. Is like saying putting your knee on a mans neck for nine minutes and 29 seconds is not trouble, but if i come to town and say lets march. Thats true. Thats you know got jogging in brunswick, georgia and killing him. Thats no trouble. But if we come in force a trial thats trouble so even idea. What is a troublemaker and in many ways. Were trouble breakers call trouble makers on a righteous call. Its really a narrative shift of sorts right like you are changing how we see that how we do that and how we respect it in so many ways right the idea of it. So the other piece that in the beginning one of the stories the as you talk about Darnella Frazier and you talk about just so much of this just as you get into it you unpack it and you just see the humanity of people but also the vulnerability and how they put themselves out there right for the good of the people and that challenge and that people are doing that every day and it just has gone unnoticed. You look at daniela frazier. For example, i write about in the book the young lady who filmed the original video did not come from the Police Body Camera came from dunnella frazier who was taking her lonely to the store and she saw this. Police officer with his knee on George Floyds neck and started filming in us started filming it and not cell phone made other stop and stop filming it. She just innately felt this is wrong. What is going on here . She didnt study Political Science somewhere. She wasnt a member my Group National network or the naacp. She just an ordinary girl. Thats the way this is wrong. Let me record this. I dont even think she knew what she was gonna to do with the record. I remember when we came up to the repast after the funeral in minneapolis, and i met darnell and her mother. They had to move out of their house. And to a motel because they were under threat. Can you imagine this young lady . Film the policeman who ended up convicted of murder and they threatened her like she did something wrong. I wanted to tell her story because it showed a real courage that this young lady had and she stood up. I dont believe there would have been a george floyd case conviction if it wasnt for dunnell afraid. And you talk a little bit about the changing of the ties and and i do want to say this part here. This is where like really struck me when you say, you know, god lifted up these sacrificial lambs so we could do his bidding in their names and in their honor just how heavy that weight is and how these people stepped into that and to do that and you talk about there have been people that did the videos and filming before without necessarily the same support that darnella ended up with exactly right . For example when when turning chrome and follow this floyd who was one of georges brother. Oh right about also in the book when they call me right after that happened actually what i go to minneapolis and try to help organize because they want to see the violence and it was only a day or so after that. Georgia been killed. Immediately. I thought of eragonas mother because eric garner who was choked by new york city policeman and killed they never indicted those cars. They never got to court and there was a film there was a video there 12 times. But eric garner said i cant breathe then the policeman kepler in that chokehold and i thought erics mother and i said man is a pandemic. I wish. Accurate president go with me to connect how these stories are together because i by then it seemed on ellas video where eric was saying. I mean where george was saying with eric said i cant breathe. So i called miss grand car and i was a mother of eric gone, and i said gwen did you see this video out of minneapolis . She said i saw it. I said, im trying to find a way to get there because its the pandemic a lot of flights have been canceled airport. She said my bags already packed. Let me know and i said, i know, you know about what happened in minneapolis. Would you do me a favor and let me use your private plane . He said itll be there 10 in the morning and take you where you want to go and she and i flew in his plane to go do the first rally and dog that night. And again we are risking because everybodys like locked down. Were literally in august now doing a lot and we flew back he gave it to us to put a funeral and tyler perry gave us a bigger plane to bring the family and from houston because with a lot of people didnt know is that george was the only Family Member in minneapolis all the brothers and sisters lived in houston on north carolina, so we had to bring them as we had the logistics of were moving in a panic. Were doing all of this as people are all over the world starting to march and were trying to stay focused on taking care of the family the what one thing people dont understand and i talk a little bit about that in the book is that a policeman is accused of a crime or violating policy. They have the union to back them up in the union provides them with resources and lawyers and if they need therapy, whatever they need. The victims dont have any of that. So when that selection network tries to do is be that institution for the victim help move them around help them if they need somebody to give them some advice on how to handle interviews and book them logistics help them with many of them have take off work. So we try to give them funds they can pay them bill. You cant fight an institution like a police union as an individual you need another institution to do that. So people think i just come in and jump on tv, and thats that we do all thats why the families remain so lawless we do everything for them that the unions do for the police but one of the things that i really appreciate it was you making this distinction about your own self worth right and this idea that at some point in time you you arrive to a place where other folks think that you know, theyre validation now make you feel like you are more important and i love your response to them like you havent decided whether know theyve arrived whether you want to be accepted by them, and i think that that is important in this work the selfvalidation and selfworth that you bring to the space. No you youve got to figure out early in your life. What are your values and whats important to you . I remember leslie mcspide. Who was the mother Michael Brown who was killed by police and ferguson, missouri. She got up at a rally one night and stunned me. She said that she never will forget mark. Twain said the two most important moments in your life is the moment you born in the moment you find out why you and i told her i teaser because we all like i said i work with these families even now im new diallos family and i talk all the time and lets have 20 years ago because you become family. I know their kids they know mine all of that and i tease lazy i said, i never thought id hear you in the middle of a rally in ferguson quote mark twain, but its appropriate quote because people that shunned us as active as much about Police Brutality marching about racial violence marching about affirmative action martial art lgbtq, right . Once asked grand for president became those of a tv showing all that they show well, you know, we can accept certain things with you now revenue now, well, first of all, im still watching. Im still doing the rallies. Im still doing the eulogy. Im not stopping anything. I did and what makes you think i need your acceptance. The question is what i want to be in. Europe and i said i intelligent people could be faced with these kinds of. Social crisis and not be involved and have this elitist attitude like they can judge whos accepted. Well put keep me on unacceptable list if thats the price i have to pay. Its you know, you go through and you talk about that in the same the same spirit with with colvin and parks right this idea of whos acceptable whos a were able to kind of use to advance the work and even when you talk about Hosea Williams this idea of were all needed in this work. Yeah, you know when i wrote the calvin called. Many people if i eventually say most people. Dont know that there was this young lady in montgomery, alabama. That refuse to give up or see the front of the bus nine months before rosa parks did in montgomery. And the black Community Leadership many preachers i might have passed. Did not want to fight and make a symbol out of claudette. Because she was dark skin, and she was pregnant. It wasnt married. So in came the class thing and i dont think a lot of times cheryl we want to talk about some of the class stuff that we have in our own community. The rosa parks was inspired by clark. They did it nine months later. She was light skin married. She was the model fred gray was a lawyer for rose apostles. Also the lord for claudette. He was beyond that and one reason why that story hit at home to me. I didnt come. From a family of preaching many of the ministers that have been in civil rights are the second third or fourth generation preachers. My father was not that and my father left when i was 10, and my mother had to raise me on a wealth and food stamps my sister and i so i didnt have the pedigree and the lineage of a lot of the high profile civil rights preaching leaders had before me and you face class things there. I remember when i was 18 a guy joined my youth group. He got killed his daddy was a big entertain his daddy took me like his son. He was james brown the godfather so of a lot of the ministers i was around civil rights look down to with james brown this gut bucket and they win this refined thing but james brown was who we like so i think that what i wanted to raise there was all of this you got to qualify to be a victim have to qualify to be a leader. You know, we want our way to washington one day. Oh james, brown has made an appointment to go to white house to lobby for modern things birthday to be a holiday 1982 and on the plane james brown said to me reverend i say yes, they never call everybody by this. Certainly. He never called him by the first name. He was very much into you know, you got to be respect and i said, yes, he said i want you to do your hair like mine. I want people see you you like my sunday correction to me and i did and i kept my like this all my life since then because this is the first man in my right then validated that i was worth something. He wanted me to be like him one of the biggest entertainers in the world. He gave me with my father did so which is why they didnt like people man why you called your head . It was my personal body with james brown and i sell that to say that it was getting beyond this leading for acceptance and validation for others that also inspired me to write this book about Claudette Coleman who is important as rosa park. Pauly murray who was an attorney that wrote some of the most insightful legal stuff that Thurgood Marshall used and they would not exalt them because she was gay and a woman i won the right a book about them cause i was them because i didnt fit the prototype of what a quote civil rights leader was supposed to fit, you know, come here out of the law out of the hood didnt go to you know that i believe school. That should not qualify you are not. Ified be afraid of fighter it is whether youre committed whether youre discipline and whether youre gonna fight for the people i know plenty people that are i believe train got the right pedigree in the right lineage and dont do anything you hit on some of this and that was part of what i took you you refer to Kimberly Crenshaw and the idea of intersectionality and one of the things that i i really appreciate it, especially in this this era that were in now is that you call out right like these pieces of the intersectionality like you just said the classism colorism, you know, the the sexism all of these Different Things that do exist that almost create the Division Within within the race that makes it complicated to advance some of the work as well and share people play in those division to divide us to politically break us down so they can make us uncomfortable with each other. Oh feeling oh superior to each other based on these fictitious walls or then they can through the gap do what they have to do. So, im a baptist minister been a boy preaching and all the way now to them in my 60s, but that doesnt mean i cant work with people that are most people that atheist because if we believe in the same values and principles how we get there is our business how we intersect as crenshaw say thats the strength we have on the right way on the right. I should say they are not all monolithic. They dont have the same faith the same belief the same lineage, but whether it is one of the weather William Buckley or Jerry Farwell they get together to deal with the same way that they want to block affirmative action or block certain voting right and weve got to be able to deal the same way the only way to deal with it is to put it out. Expose it. So people have to deal with it rather than the unspoken or we dont want to talk about that. We need to talk about so we stop these divisions and build a movement. Thats gonna stop these inequalities and these injustice. So, you know, i do want to ask because you youve been doing this work. It is a heavy lift and you are working you talk about the eulogies and the families and the folks that you meet. How do you take care of yourself . How do you practice selfcare you know . I started off several years ago a whole kind of work on me. I changed my diet. Im a vegetarian i work out every day. I lost a lot of weight and i started meditations in the morning. So i do the baptist finishes praying about him. I also meditate because it is a lot on you, you know at first you running from here to there and and then you kind of not think about it, but then all of a sudden it all comes down and in the last year i did the eulogy for george floyd. I did the eulogies on several other cases about 12 People Killed by Police Including i just out west with this young lady from chile that was shot with police. Bullet rican going through the door of dressing room and so many times you look at these bodies. I dont know who you are. Its gonna bring you down and thats why i go back to if im not going to do it whos gonna do it whos going to resource and who can put a limelight on this to expose it and you find yourself trying to talk yourself into it, but if people think that they get tired of seeing me out there they are not more trying to be saying they kill somebody else is almost like once you get down you go back into another situation. I will never forget gerald we were in the family room at the Minneapolis Court house listening to the summations of the trial of derek show the policeman that is neon George Floyds neck. And someone came in the room and pulled ben crump and outside and said the police woman just killed the young man named dante right 10 miles from you. I mean we werent even out of the trial. And this bully you would think they in summation. On a trial right there in their county. Of the policemen and they would be on extra good behave. Kill this boy at a traffic stop we waited for court to be over that day and when it met with the parents ten miles ahead and said we would help them. You know, we helped to get the funeral done and all of that i end up doing that eulogy a day after the conviction of their show so that chauvin who we didnt know how to burn it was gonna be found guilty and murdered everyones happy we go back to the hotel. Tears streaming down our Eyes National International Meeting and then i had to get up the next morning and go to Brooklyn Center to preach the funeral of another big. And thats your life and you only do that if you committed and thats what people i write about that book. They were committed because you cant stop until you change the system that keeps allowing this to happen without penalty and accountability the idea of that commitment and that you know when you talk about right that even of a bin crump or of eric garners mom that there was something in that and and i think about your your story both of maybe mobly made me tell mobley and even the stories you talk about Washington Temple or the bread basket like i think there is something you know, ive said this before theres something about the foundation of the faith and culture of black folks that helps to see some of that strength and you know, i love how you talked about you. You knew you want to be a preacher from early on like that was poured. You and this idea that you know, you werent as impressed with Thurgood Marshall as others right that there was something about the spiritual thats always called you to this work, but also to the space no when i was very young. Oh even before my father love. I would always look at those in ministry that were in social activists. I love Adam Craig Powell and im like 19 years old which you know already aboard preaching out church of god in christ, and but i wasnt attracted to the side of preachers that were doing the pastoring big churches as attracted to the activist act. I ten eleven years old was really about cece. We got there in San Francisco, and these were the kinds of preachers. I grew up. I want to be like that and Jesse Jackson ended up a mental mind when i was 12, my mother brought me to him. He was 25 26. Hes transmitted. So he was like a father figure that lady became a big a big brother figure because as you grow older the gap of 13 years is different than father the son so i know what i wanted to be and i never changed that i never let nobody told me out of it. I remember some of the guys that world would be in the ministry we say why are you gonna make a living out there doing civil rights ministry. I said, i dont know but this is what i believe you supposed to do and thats what i wouldve been prompt been prompt is an excellent. Lawyer. I write about that. Im sure been proper never thought he would become the face of the civil rights legal kind of profession and how gonna make a living. I think if you decide with your life is youre living or come from that decision. Theres no way anybody could have told me, you know you the right wing can talk about im an opportunist and all of that. Hows everybody gonna tell me that doing what ill do that . I would one day host the cable National Show or syndicated radio show. I mean, how could i there wasnt even an msnbc an existence when i started this so they will always assign you motors because it shows you their value. It doesnt show you out. No, and i think reading the book was helpful for me because you give all these things that the stories of just the the pushback that folks receive and yet it becomes very clear. You are not in this for the money, right . Like theres no way that you have gone through the things that you have gone through the stories are so helpful to give the bigger context of what it is that people are experienced. And in that theres no amount of money that can absolve. Things that have happened over time well on the ambulance chasing thing, lets go back to ahmedabri when ahmed was killed and the police came. They said that this was selfdefense the local prosecutor refused to rest those three guys. Thats when they came to people like Ben Franklin Ben crump brought me and we started raising issue and local activists in brunswick was really consistent and persistent to the point where the governor brought in another prosecutor and they got the case so we wouldnt chasing him and as we were the ambulance the ambulance came and left it way it was and thats what people dont understand if we did not come then who was going to stand up for an army on other case and i think that that is what is really crazy to me and then when i look about like me there was a case in new york and oh 89 oh 1989 yousef hockey young man killed in a section of brooklyn bensoners where they didnt want blacks there. I lived in marches out there protesting calling for the killers to be arrested one saturday. Ran out the crowd stuck a night from my chest you just from my heart how much you gonna pay me to get stabbed and almost killed. My daughters was four and five years old. I mean how much you gonna pay me to your staff . Oh on days that we spent. I want spent three months in jail for leading the protests in puerto rico around navy exercise. How much you gonna pay . Somebody didnt lose their freedom for three months. So the absurdity of the attack is not the vindicate me is to show people made sacrifices, even though they know theyre gonna get my line, even though they know theyre gonna get attacked and i know that the fox news the worlds dont call me name you do it because you have to do it because thats who you are. It really chronicles what youre talking about this idea of whats in you and the story of ruby bridges and when you talk about dr. Coles, and that part there where he is trying to figure out why is she praying right for these folks and made me think of cone talking about a we need a theological revolution because he was basically saying we need more people to be like these folks are you know, one one story . I tell and i wish people get the book. I dont want to give everything but i have to tell this story since you brought a ruby bridges. Is that this young lady . Brought to integrate this school and every day miles. This is outside calling a name calling the federal marshals name is ushanaian and she had one white teacher that was sitting school and teacher. And she every day go to School Every Day go to school and the part that really got to me is that one day she was coming into school and they were really out there. Just causing the ruckus calling her the nword everything and she turned in and said something a lips were moving and when she got inside a teacher said ruby you all right . Yeah. The i saw you Say Something back to the crowd. She said what do you mean . No, i saw you live from over. What did you say to the crowd . And this little girl said . Oh, i wasnt talking to them. I was talking to god. And when im at researched that story i put in a book tears came in my eyes because thats the kind of faith and commitment you have to have that you can ignore the noise of imminent danger because you feel that Spiritual Connection would just bring you through and as long as you talk into another worldly kind of thing, whichever way you approach it you can handle whats going on and were the time that i wanted this book to say that because we had a time if you can see people stone the capital of the United States and threaten the life of their Vice President from their party and the speaker of the house. Just what rummaging through the halls wheres nancy clothes if were dealing with this kind of open hate. You need to have some spiritual kind of cover that you can deal with this stuff without being infected by so in the middle of a pandemic when the middle of all this hate when the middle of all is back left. And unless you are prepared for this mentally and spiritually you can easily succumb. And be right in trouble makers was in situations worse than this and they didnt succumb. Well, its interesting is one of the first questions we have here says i marched with mlk in chicago in 1963. I never thought i would still be in a civil rights struggle in 2022. Do you agree . I definitely agree, you know when Martin Luther king as i said one of my mentors was reverend jackson when he went to chicago on the show that the Southern Movement could work in the north. Ive seen the videos. I was very close with mrs. King and Martin Luther close together and i seen the videos of where dr. King had they threw it. Oh break at him gage park in cicero and when they would eat lots of open housing and he said that he never saw the hate in the southeast so in chicago and here you talking about this marches with 63 66 in chicago here. We are on 22 fighting rights protection. So on one hand you could say when is it in im tired it is weve been doing this 50 years on the other end if we stop we did 50 years for nothing. We cant stop. Mmm, thats deep thats deep. I just think that that im like, you know permeating in that because that is right like if you stop now this is you know as the old folks used to say too close to give up you know, thats right. Um another question. Do you think america is still going through a white lash from the obama years or are going through Something Else . I think that in part we are going through white last if you study american history. It was always a step forward. Push back so weve had slavery. Finally lincoln reluctantly allowed blacks to get the union army and help to win against the confederate. Lincoln signing masturbation proclamation free the blacks in the Confederate States january 1st 63. We are going to reconstruction backlash Ku Klux Klan White Citizens Council Supreme Court with decisions that there was no rights any blacks had that they were bound to respect blessing versus ferguson and all of that. So backlash all the way then to the 20th century in acp founded and urban league founded early part of the century backlash. Oh, then you get to the civil rights error where brown versus board of education 54 citizens by students Martin Luther king emergency broadcast where we start seeing after the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights act the backlash comes. Dont forget 64 Civil Rights Act. 65 Voting Rights act 68 the open housing act then all of a sudden their urban riots Police Brutality and the backlash Richard Nixon got elected that year in 68 68. That were all are we talking about civil rights ended with Richard Nixon so fast forward to your question we get a black president barack obama 2008 reelected the 2012 backlash donald trump. I knew there would be a backlash after obama got it, and i worked closely with obama. I didnt know be donald trump what new in new yorkers is anything other than president , but theres always a backlash and you have to be prepared for backrest which is why you never let you god. On this next question talks about the filibuster which you talked about in the book what you which you said, you know king talked about, you know doing away with and so this question is about what do you think about the filibuster which you know, and the people the senators who are defending it. Well, i think the filibuster im against it totally but the least they could do is do what they did with the debt shield earlier this year. They found a way to carve around it and said weve got the other deadly they carved around it to deal with some judicial nomination. So why cant you carve around it for something a basic and fundamental in a democracy as protecting the right to vote . I think the full of us should be eradicated period and and when you asked what i think about those in defending it the defense and and weve been watching several times had a big marks their 50,000 people in august and all the rally since then. And as we met with some of the senators including mansion in them, they said well if we change it the republicans are going to use it against us if they ever get back in power. Does anybody honestly believe that Mitch Mcconnell is not going to use it whether the Democrats Use it or not. I mean, can you even fantasize the image because im gonna say you guys didnt use it. So im going to honor that you didnt do it didnt honorable about these guys. Theyre going to do it. They did it they stall st. All a president ial nomination of a Supreme Court justice for over a year to put who they wanted on that bench. And you know think they would go around the filibuster you talk about it in the book and then i think i compared it to win Coretta Scott king refers to and says the doctor king believed in the visionary and the practical right and i think you also these stories that you share in the book or really highlighting the need for both. And so when people ask questions like that the question is we can have this vision of a utopia where they do as you say. Right, right, like well, im not gonna do it because you didnt do it and im not gonna do it because you didnt do but thats not really how it lets see. What are the things i try to say to a lot of young people in our organization nash actually network and activists as i go to certain campuses, you know is that you must be committed, but you can be a purist where it got to be your way and any deviation any kind of way of getting things done if its not to the letter youre not gonna do it because then youre not gonna fix aside and i think that you got to be willing to be practical practically practical in the sense of executing your vision. Im not saying lose your vision, but see how you can get it put in place and thats why i work with the congressional black car because then the progressive call theyre in the congress doing the legislation. Were in the streets and in the media. Be public are trying to do a Public Opinion one should complement of not be competitive to one another. So im out there leading the marches. Im out there. Im television and radio i and and there in the the congress as in the senate right now dealing with legislation. Theyre not my enemy. Why am i calling him a name . Why are you all out here marching because this lady everybody has a role and we need to let everybody do their role as long as its coming toward the same. Thats the part. I keep coming back to and i think that that idea of everybody has a role or accepting people for who they are and not being the purest so, you know, the James Meredith story right like again all these folks in there that people have to get this this book. Im gonna have to go back through it because there are so many names so many pieces that you know folks are talking about the debate over critical race the what to talk about and where to talk about it and all of that a lot of this stuff, you know, im of a generation that if they didnt teach it to me in church, i didnt learn it right and so theres such richness here, but i really think this idea of the old school dont throw the baby out with the bathwater right . Like how do we drill down on that more and more because the the lines i i thought about some parts of when you talked about narrative that it sounded like all lives matter, right but that you were saying like were not going we cant get caught up on some of that because we cant erase the impact that he had on the movement. Meredith did things that i may disagree with murder though came to new york and late 60s ran against adam creampology republican, but that doesnt erase the fact this man went to university of mississippi and broke down the walls of segregation would what he did so hes not perfect in either you and neither am i the stories need to be told so we can have an appreciation. I remember right after Trayvon Martin and i was very much in the center of that case with all Sabrina Fulton and tracy our parents had come to me again with ben trump, and i remember i went to a rally in florida. Are in sanford florida right after trayvon have and a girl had a young lady had on a tshirt saying this is not grandmas moving. And a lot of these civil rights guys with me said oh lord, what is what is this . And i walked over to us and let me ask you something. What what do you wear that what i want them to know this aint no we shall overcome generation that i i said it was obvious you younger than the wish alone come generation. Im not a wish i will come generation. My generation was the no justice. No peace generation. Yall look black ladder. I said, but why do you have to condemn grandma . Who are you playing to . I mean, who are you have to be accepted by to tell them grandma wasnt it wasnt for grandma my generation or your generation being so while we got to be down grandma . She looked at me she said. I said grandma to generation brothers from the back of the bus to obama being president. Why are we mad at grandma . He said i never thought about that way and i think that weve got to stop all of this. Every generation pig always drop by the last generation the bed not moved those yards down. You wouldnt be closer to the gold line and i think that we too often play the age game and this that i know some young blacks that are in the right wing. Look at those young blacks. It was just standing behind trump in arizona over the weekend talk about blacks for trump. They are theyre the same generation that some of them talking about this aint grandma movement. It is not your age is your agenda after kind of getting to the end when you talk about coming full circle. I had this like moment i was a Kindergarten Teacher for a long time. So i have all these random poems in my head, but also from black History Month in church, and i just immediately thought about bringing the gifts that my ancestors gave i am the hope dream of the slave from maya angelou that you basically are saying that this foundation right the work that were doing the work that this next generation is doing the the work of future change makers is built on the work of the folks that came before you. All of it is built on that and anything that you do anybody that studies history it goes from one generation to the next generation and thats how the continuity of history and if you are so egomaniacal that you think movements and activism started with you and in with you then you the minimize your usefulness we all serve our purpose and our time and it moves on whether you accept it or not. Its gonna move on past you anyway, the movement didnt start with you and its not going in when you finish. Hopefully you will be part of advancing it some oh on your watch and thats why i want to write about some that did thing that never got the recognition, but they did it and because of what they did advanced us. We are nowhere near where we need to be but wed be a lot worse than one for some righteous stroke. Thats right. Thats right. So building on that one of the questions from the audience there is is there a favorite story or person that didnt make it into the book. Wow, thats a good question. I probably id have to find that one, but thats a good question. Im sure there were two or three people that i wish i had gotten in but they dont come to mind right away was a great question. And i think this this book for folks across the board because you uncover or unpack or at least share with us. I think you know the poly murray story and the just as you tell the story without telling it theres so much that i think people should read and then go do some Additional Research because we have been and i do believe that we still are i was able to speak with speaking glide on sunday and have been talking about like affirming humanity and again to the intersectionality that we as a people talking about black folks. Theres still struggling with some of our challenges within the lgbtq commute. Absolutely, you know, i talk about oh the connections there with oh with quality. My sister was gay. So i grew up on knowing the bias in the church because we would have been across the church later and baptist and i knew first hand. All that my sister had to deal with racism sexism and homophobia, so i lived it in my house so i could understand poorly story and and i understood the hypocrisy of a lot of people in the church because we all new to gay people in the church. It was like dont act like we know i mean how hypocritical is that . And i think weve got to confront all of that. That is why i embraced christian somewhere intersectionality the fact that biod rusty. Who was the main organizer of the 1963 is dark march on washington had to step back because he was almost sexual its criminal. In fact that women couldnt speak at the 63 march where king may die of a dream its criminal. And weve got to talk about these things so we can correct them as we go and hopefully when people get correct when we didnt see needed to be correct all in the spirit of making everything move toward a more perfect, you know the conversation with bishop event lond. Are just around. Yeah like youre talking about and then and how our churches benefited from the music that we wouldnt celebrate the people that brought the music. No visa front is a great person and and youre absolutely right. You know, like i said, i grew up a boy preaching so we knew it every church. I took a little while with Mahalia Jackson the gospel great when i was a kid, we do it every church that a lot of the quiet in the musicians were gay and we love their music. We love their performative art. But we did love them and their life and all of that and they have hypocrisy of that the judging of that. Is in my opinion something that we needed to expose and deal with and i think founders absolutely right . Lets see. We got another question. What does it mean mean to act with progressive integrity . I think that progressive integrity is interesting expression. Where you operate based on what is right . What is ethical . And not judgmental and do not define progressive by some purest one, two, three, four, five six, seven eight nine ten, but by the goal of making a more progressive open fair society. And you do it with integrity be honest. And be failed integrity is very important in movement because even if i dont agree with your tactic or you agree with mine as long as i know that your word is your bond as we say as long as i know that you are who you say you are i can deal with you where we break down movements is where trust program, you know in San Francisco we have that we you know like to think about ourselves as progressive but as you know, that is that is a word that does not always translated and town with less than six percent black folks we but still have the same disparities in terms of whos incarcerated our system, right . Its all that and progressive is who to who i mean, you know, we have it in new york. Im progressive progressive for who and i think that weve got to be able to define it in a way with integrity. I think that is very important. I mean, its its interesting you say that often feel like you know here we have a black woman mayor who are in Public Housing who who folks would often challenge her viewpoints and one of the things i think folks really struggle with understanding is that historically she was raised by her grandmother that historically, you know, our older generation of black folks were much more conservative in terms of how they operated and how they function but that was born out of necessity to keep their families safe. Yeah, and you sometimes would hear me say on some of my television stuff about latte liberals people that study of those of us that grew up. Like i did like the mayor did oh in poverty and on welfare and all of that they study us, but they never were us and theyre gonna speak for us and dont even understand our story and how are you gonna address a pain . You didnt feel better than those that hurt. Im not saying you cant address it, but dont tell me to shut up and be a problem for your presentation. Im not a problem a person and we gonna decide together. What is progressive . I am not looking for better sleep master. Im looking for freedom, and ive told people that in coalitions that just because your style may be more inclusive if youve given orders that is not a coalition. Thats a collection. You got to respect where im coming from and the pain that ring and the bearing that i bring and the raising that i bring coming out of the projects like you talk about the mayor and i respect that you may be on someone that came from means and im not holding that against you and we can meet in the middle, but if ive got to fit your definition of with a progressive is and check everybody box, then im only imposing myself and another situation where im not in charge of my own direction lets see we got another one. What is your biggest . Hope for the rest of the biden president . See . I hope that we pass this Voting Rights act. Some way to protect the right to vote and then get to the George Floyd Justice and policing act. We must have a Police Reform on a federal level so we dont have to go case by case and i hope we get a fair. Oh, well a boat really on the buyback better. Weve got to deal with clim. And things that is in the bbb and i think that hes having his press conference now. I think that hes saying that he was elected for four years. Not one. He has three years left. We need to make sure we get those done and i intend to hold them accountable until we do as i was going through the book and as we prepare to kind of wrap. Up is that i feel like what youve laid out here is also a road map for outreach and engagement. I think it really does help People Better understand how to engage with community how to be mindful of lived experiences and appreciate and respect all those differences and ive been looking at it going like i think people need to read this before they go step out in community or try to do any kind of organizing to better understand community. No, i i appreciate you saying that i wanted to lay out a lot of my experiences and then experiences of others so they can glean so they go out. Would be clear and not feeling like this is the world is gonna embrace him because theyre doing the right thing because its not gonna be that way youre going to face test you on face trial you gonna face rejection because youre dealing with people that have been the victims of rejection and i would hope this book helps to prepare you for that. So it is expected. Its not a long. And and kind of as the final wrap up. Question youve said this a little bit but you know, like how can this be used . You start off the book talking about the tactics and the tools and the lessons that folks can use. How do you see this . And how do you you know as you share this these stories and and you talk about at the end of being for future change makers but how do you see this being used or how would you like to see it being used . I like to see the book used by people saying that i feel that my life is to contribute to the continued social justice who . I feel that my life is about bringing about a fairness and justice and now that ive read other stories that i didnt know. What will my story be . I hope they leave this book saying what will my story be may not be on the front page of the San Francisco chronicle to la time, but its a story. Its a story. Maybe only my kid alone. My cousin dont know. What is my story. Everybody got a story and part of that story is that you helped to fight it brings social Justice Justice closer a reality in this country. This idea of the struggle for justice and doing this work. That its not its not an easy walk. Right and so that commitment and that dedication and what moved me is the commitment that you have the commitments that you describe of other folks the the boldness that they have and and the spirit of it all i ive imagined the hotel in minneapolis when you all were in the room together in the verdict came down you talk about the singing and the praying and the movement. I felt like i was in church when you described the name of the house of justice and Jesse Jackson, you know, the love language and the further which he did that like how do people tap into or find that because you are a beacon of light to so many of these families who are struggling and you youre pouring into other folks and i think people have got to find a way to be able to pour into other people instead of waiting to be poured into in the way that you describe these people. I think that if you honest with yourself and open on that you dont have to find the spirit. It will find you if youre open and that you want to serve one of the scriptures that i always love is is that jesus said the servant . Is the highest and you must want to serve and that spirit will find you. I like i said, i was 12 years old when i joined the movement. I was or preaching before that at 13 the year. That thing was killed. I became youth director of the chapter of his organization in new york. I didnt figure out the difference between nonviolence struggle and selfdefense why i was going with my rather than malcolm. I just did it and if you open yourself up, youll be guided. I honestly believe that in the right way. You just have to have the courage to follow the guy. Thank you so much reverend al sharpton. Im going to be reaching out to National Action network, and ive definitely am interested in doing more with the book here. I truly believe that it is a roadmap to outreach engagement and celebration of community members. And so were i honestly enjoyed this hour and i really would love to work with you close in the future beyond. Im going to be you gonna regret saying that but i wont no i wont i promise i wont. So, thank you reverend al shot. Thank you joining me today at in forum at the commonwealth club. I would like to remind the audience that are um that righteous troublemakers Untold Stories of the social Justice Movement in america. Can be purchased through your preferred bookseller if youd like to watch more programs or support the commonwealth clubs efforts in making virtual and inperson programming this year, please visit commonwealthplub. Org slash online. Im sure evans davis. Thank you so much and stay safe and healthy