Transcripts For CSPAN2 Rebel Mother 20170701

Quite an amazing brief im going to talk about ground rules and turn it over o peter so many of you know peter quite well. He is the john hay professor of International Studies here at brown hes a professor also of International Public affairs, and Political Science. He joined the institute . In 2001 and previously he had worked at reid college, had been in Academy Scholar at the Harvard University Research Fellow at brookings, and also Ssrc Macarthur Foundation fellow of International Peace in security he got his ma and ph. D. In government in cornell and b. A. In Political Science at swathmother. Peter is just one of the truly unique and wonderful combinations of serious scholars, innovative, gifted teachers and really just a wonderful colleague. I was very fortunate to gets to know peter in 2013 and associate director of the qat son institute and translated brown and we were partners in crime for a couple of years trying to reimagine the Watson Institute which i think, has done extremely, extremely well. Aside from being truly a good teacher prolific and high impact scholar. Hes the author, coauthor, and coed tore of ten books, previous to this book he published a terrific book called smuggler nation how e elicit trade america which is something that we should be reminded of these days that came out in 2013 and selected by amazon and by Foreign Affairs as well of the very best books of the year. Before that, he wrote a really again one of the first books that i read of peters which was blue helmet and black markets. The business of or so survival and siege really a terrific book that talks about a particular moment in history. And i think what this does something her nation does and with rebel mother is that it actually takes an issue whether its like whats going on during the siege or o how to we think about elicit trade and smuggling, and it takes this issue that you think is kind of a little offcenter, but shows how it has actually central to the way that we understand peace and politicals International Phenomenon as well. Done a lot of work as on issues of border, hes now working on issue ors of drugs and way that we understand it and with peter hes a i believe to take these issues. Show is theyre relevant to mainstream. But talk about them in a way that youre actuallien gauged and you read the book and you it is very, very accessible so its a real pleasure to have you as a colleague. And friend this book which were going to be hearing about today and hopefully all of you had a chance to it look at it if not i think theyre going to be sold outside is just an incredible book that blends together a story of peters mom a story of their relationship between peters mommy and himself. Overtime that especially when he was young are. But also the story of what was going on politically in this country and also abroad in a certain era, and weaving together those different narratives incredibly creative way i think makes this a very compelling story and actually brings to life, makes it personal and real what was going on in this era and how people are are responding to it so again a really terrific book. The mat is that peter will talk about the book for maybe about a half hour and then afterwards well sit together over there, and ill kick off discussion by asking him, a couple of questions. And then well hope it up to the broader audience for a q and a session. I want to remind everyone that this session is actually being taped by cspan. Which is fantastic. And that means two things one is please turn off your phone. And because that wouldnt be great, and second one is, if, when you have questions, please just wait for a minute for the microphone because otherwise people wont hear the questions during rossering and let me turn it over to pert and thank you for bring us this wonderful piece of. [applause] work. Thank you very much. Thank you all for coming on this wet, gray, cold day doesnt feel like spring quite yet. The reason rick gave introduction is not simply because i needed to give this really glowing intro. Or that hes the publish university but rather because despite that, yes because when had he first arrived to brown we worked close together and he was the first person who figured out that i was writing this book and those of you who know rick know he has extra antenna for these thaings figures out whats going on. Quickly than most and not only did he figure out i was writing this book but he wanted to see it right away. Like immediately so i gave him that draft which was really not a very good draft at that point. And he took it and i think, he it overnight and has insomnia so he reads overnight. And gave me great comments the next day after that. So im grateful because this is a book that i do not broadcast widely that i was working on. I didnt quite believe it was happening until i actually had a publisher to rick was early important source of a support on this project. Not your typical science book, obviously, not wearing my Political Science hat today. But i should say its about politics. So theres continuity here with my other work and, in fact, it is possibly the most deeply political thing ive ever written. And you know, it basically reflects the old saying that personal is political and it is impossible to imagine me being a political scientist today if it wasnt for this intensely political childhood. So its a story that ive long had in my head didnt know what to do with long thought about, writing something at some point in my life about. But i never got around to it and i never really thought i had enough raw material to work with. I didnt entirely trust memory to produce a book. So what made this possible . Well, tragically, it was my mothers death that made this possible o. She died very suddenly unexpectedly, and going through her things, i discovered had her diary covering decades. In fact, her diary are was sitting next to her bed where she died, and the last line in her diary was i think im having a heart attack. Thats where a diary ends, and it goes back decades to my childhood. And so i started reading and couldnt stop reading. And as her son but also as a researcher and i think my, goodness i have a book here had. So rt paves therapeutic but i can finally tell the story so what is this booksome it is a book about life on the run with my radical mother. You know covered three states and five considerates and lived in a dozen homes and i went to a dozen schools between ages of five and 11. I skipped various grades. Missed search grades, much of the time wasnt even in school at all. So its a personal story in that sense but also a story about a radical era so rick alluded to, in some ways the story captures era told through this particular family drama. The 60s and 70s tore the country apart in many ways also tore some families apart and this was one of them. So what im going to do today and different for me im not just going to talk about the argument in the book and evidence presented and so on. I will actually do some reading which is a little different style of presentation for me. I should mention you know those of most have not looked at the book, of course. But the diary not only provided gave me the confidence to write this story but actually l weave the diaries and her letters correspondents so on throughout the book and nt it made it possible for me to actually do something ive never done in writing before which is dialogue. Have dialogue it took me a while to adjust to writing dialogue and i did and she was such a good writing with in her diary that i was table to extend and use that material to coming up with actual dialogue so if you wonder how i came with some of this stuff in the book, mostly the diaries. All right so i will selective readings basically the idea is cap different moments in the story and i will jump ahead to september 11, 1973. S just after 9 a. M. September 11th, 197 we huddled around radio in the kitchen. Listening intently as president salvador broadcast what were to be his last publicly spoken words. Just got back from our first rend of tending to cows, horses, other animal when is she yelled for us to listen to the radio. The president ial palace was being bombed. The military was staging acue with the support of the countrys disgruntled wealthy elite and the United States we saw as part of a growing chonnist threat in the region. I ended never to give up to the military you would be dead within hours. Behooved it was that taken out claim he committed suicide with an ak47 Assault Rifle given to him by fidel castro. I heard his voice with solemn yet depiengt. Long live chile long live the people. Long live the workers. These are my last words. Im certain that my sacrifices will not be in vain im certain a moral listens that will punish felony, coward and treason. When the radio fell slengt i could think only of my mother where was she . Was she safe . Would i ever see again . I didnt comprehend the situation but i was fluent enough in spanish at this point to understand the words. And knew enough to recognize that my mother could be in danger. Afterall she was an a actress support effort of the left of the government that violently been overthrowned indeed her complaint was that had hadnt been left just enough. Her sympathies were actually with the more radical chilean mirror [inaudible conversations] or revolutionary left movement. She thought it should have districted articles to workers in preparation for a possible military cue. I had not seen or heard from her in more more than a month and had no idea to reach my father or anyone else. At that moment i felt more alone. More cutoff, than any other time in my life. I had been happy living on the farm. But now it suddenly seemed as if i was there in the midst of a political hurricane. Voice was gone forever. Rosa sat staring at the radio in stunned silent and glanced over at me force a smile perhaps trying to comfort me but i could see fear in her dark eyes. And so after elgopa right wring military the man who had willed chile for next 17 years i anxiously waited for my mothers return. My mind raced with scary possibilities. Was my mother imprisoned . Tortured in a morgue maybe in an unmarked cave never to be found. And when i wondered what it would be like if i stayed there with roses family would i end up with no sticks, no sox selling top and bottom of my shoes together to keep them l from falling apart . Or would my father somehow find me and take me to the safety of michigan . That thought was comforting but also disturbing. To mean my mother had never come back now she did come back a few weeks later but as you can imagine few weeks of waiting were rather traumatic, she and i i had been living on a farm 500 kilometers south when the cue happened, and we were not together and she showed up and took me with her. We then fled the country to argentina. Shortly thereafter now im going to skip ahead. More light hearted story u now in peru living with my mothers peruvian boyfriend half her age, im in a local public school, the only grengo around so this sanction is titled [inaudible conversations] as soon as i started school in 1974 the lice arrived. I tried to draw my notebook while lice fell from my hair on to the page and crawled around many in circles. As if they were trying to get my attention i thought they were falling off my head because it was so crowded there and not enough room for them all. I imagined bloody fistfights as they fought over land a white landscape of thousands of tiny eggs. At first i was startled i would have been em parsed but many had their own colonies of it. My mother spent many e a late evening hour patiently combing eggs out of my hair with a special tooth comb. Affection of grooming routine of monk o can is picking insects off each other we tried everything. Special soaps shampoos even resorted to kerosene. Leaving an awful smell in my hair that lasted for day, nothing worked. My mother probably spent more time combing lice eggs out of my hair than she did cooking wanted to cook it would have been much too difficult all we had was a burner hot plate, no fridge so meal at home usually meant crusty bread and jelly for breakfast along with tear coffee. After school my mother and raul her boyfriend were often at a political event. My mother paid someone to feed me but typically a bowl of rice. Meal soup, piece of bread, a main course of mix of rice, potatoes and meat. His wife hula and a two daughters treated me like family. Still especially nice to me when he was sober. But he always smelled like sweated alcohol. One night, announced that he had a cure for my lice problem. It had worked on his kids would i want to give it a try . This girl giggled. They wouldnt say what it was, though. It works they promised. After dinner, they took me out back to muddy fenced yard where they kept their goats, chickens and ducks. Lower your head instructed them. I need to douse your hair stay still dont move. I did exactly as he said bending over as far as i could in the dark. A lukewarm shower of sticky salt water landed on my head. My senses swarmed in unmistakable smell nothing stinks quite like urine. And theres nothing quite like having a pot of fee dumped on your head. Now rub it in real good he said. I reached up, and massaged the urine into my lice infested scalp. Hard had tear use both hands had. So i wouldnt offend him i rubbed it into my head with gus i began to stand up but he stopped me. He wanted to just you need just a bit more he said. There was no pee left in the chamber pot. So he zipped his pants pulled out his pee us in and released a hot stream rights on my head. Taking care not to misany spots. I was so drenched that even my ears were full there that should do it. Gagging i desperately wanted to rings my hair and wash with off my salty face. But he stopped me again. Now, let it set there for a little while he said. It has had to soak in. And so i sat patiently pee drawing on my eyelids waiting for minutes to tick by. It works exactly as promised. It turned out that the lice living on my head were even more disgusted than i was. Few weeks later, though, they were back in full force perhaps because other kids at school still had lice. Procreating laying eggs more than ever. But i didnt ask for another treatment all right now, my mother and raul her boyfriend she was about 41 at this time and he was about 21. And very intense relationship, they also had very intense political relationship. What i mostly remember about them, in fact, is arguing about politics. And fortunately he has the blow by blow of their politics in her diaries as well so i reconstruct ared one big argument that that narrate to you as much as they loved each other they could argue about anything especially anything to do with politics. Political wrestling matches simultaneously inpure rated them and lasted with brief rests in between in the day. I hate christ raul suddenly declared one day. He did the seem to be trying to pick a fight but my mother could not resist responding not necessary to struggle against evils of christianity. And off they went a verbal fistfight between atheist was jesus a patroltarian and against rich and powerful and a pacifist could you still believe in lean no said rule yes said my mother. To you defended christ were you reaction their, no pin cysted my mother. Yes, insisted raul. So that mean you mean im a reaction their he said, incredulous he huffed in reply. My mother said it was nice that jesus want disciples to wash each others feet. Teaching humility always supposed to be humble raul replied. My mother shot back, it suspect realistic to expect people to throw away off their lifelong religious beliefs in one jump it is politically smarter to attack the church and a its doctrines rather than to attack jesus and his life. Raul replied i dont care about convincing hold people but young peruvians that need to hate christ and all he symbolizes oh raul dont be so dismissive have you even read the bible he declared just remember what mark said religion in the opioid of the masses. Yes, but. Doesnt mean there isnt anything to be learned from the bible. She replied. One weekend afternoon raul took a bunch of familiar religious songs and substituted names marks, linen and mow for jesus. He thought it was a create arive square to try to convert christians to the revolutionary cause pleased with himself he proudly showed the doctor song sheets to my mother when she came home confident she would be impressed by his brilliant idea. He was hoping to sing a song as part of his act and maybe sell copies on the street. Completely backfired. My mother was not only unimpressed she was mad. You turned markism into a religion raul was stunned it is tactic to political size masses, no it mere perpetuates institutes marks for jesus is not progress to revolution raul. Angry raul lit a match urpdz song sheets until it caught fire in the middle of the room. My mother and i both jumped raul youre crazy she screamed at him stomping out o the fire. Ashes from ash from burn sheets floating up and spreading across the room. You could have burned the whole place down. Always without resolution about what my mother called, quote, the root causes of measuring achezmo and female oppression. Frustrate ared my my mother per sistant raul lashed out saying as a north american, she was [inaudible conversations] the during of imperialism. She would then countinger well raul remember that you were not the most oppressed person in the world because youre not a woman. Never work twod out an Effective Response to that line. One saturday several monthses after we moved their debate about female o oppression lasted the entire day. Argued into the shower and they argued on the way back. It was it as if i wasnt even there. That day they got so mads at each other over their different oppression that they decide decide to part ways our shower outing raul kicking at rocks are on the roads and storming off. Then my mother saw i started to cry and put her arm around my shoulder if it isnt well well still be fine. After raul returned home a few hours later, arguments picked up where they had left off and a continued into the night. As they tried to make up, my mother told raul sincerely, i understand that youre just is trying to get revenge is against youngies and then added getting to know me its your way of getting to know white Imperialist Society and seeing enemy up close. Now, im not sure is that really made raul feel any better. But they did stop arguing. At least for that night. Ill switch gears a little bit. The year into being in peru we were broke. And my mother had not actually ever had a financial settlement with my father over the divorce. So we had to go back. And try to settle things with him. And its hard for me to believe at this point but at that particular point my spanish was better than any english, and i didnt hardly know how to write in english iftion nine years old. So my mother was kind of pushes me to get up to speed after being gone for a few years in the u. S. , and so i found a poem in english maybe only poem ive ever written in my life. So i thought i would read it. Nine years old december i think it was 74. I am poor and rich. And life is sometimes sad. And sometimes marvelous. For me its both. The bathroom is full of shit my mother is sick. My teacher never comes. And to me they all call me grengo older kids this the bar will beat me up. Im nine years old. First in my class. My shoe is torn. Life is sad dammit. My mother is teaching me english. And thats good. Chow. [laughter] after reading my poem my mother smiled folded it, gave me a kiss on my forehead, thank you peter. Ill make sure to keep this. I would find it in her diary are four decades later. All right. I dont know how im doing on time but jus a few more things. Well let me skip forward. When i went back came back to the United States, my mother, my father refused to negotiate a property settlement agreement. Unless my mother also was willing to have a custody battle over me. So she rolled the dice. She was broke. Somehow had confidence that she would not only get her slents settlement but get custody she got her settlement and lost custody of me so i moved into suburban detroit with my father. Extraordinary change of lifestyle as you can imagine my father and my stepmother rosalynn, the trial was in august. Lost my mother lost custody i lived with them that fall. And my mother became she was living in colorado at the time. She became increasingly anxious fearful, depressed, angry. And would write me over and over again. Warning me about the pit falls of my new lifestyle. Hes a sample. Pretty heavy stuff. Dear peter, the judge and lawyers are are still playing around with me about the settlement money. Im furious this make it is more difficult incarceration by people who treat me injustly. I imagine you will not want to hear about my preoccupations you want to be free to enjoy your life a king of the universe and i dont know how to remind that you are a child of the people. You do not see the people from where you are. And you start to view the people as a threat to your privileged life. The rich waste their time accumulating and buying and guard against the poor. They may help the poor sometimes but they will never want the poor to kick the rich out and take power. The thing that preoccupies me about you peter is that you will fear the poor when the poor rebel just like the rich always have. And rather than rejoice when the poor rebel youre so far away from that, you would never see the rebellion. You are so far away from the realities of the world peter. You perhaps carry with you memories of what you once thew of the world. But that willed fade if you stay there. And peter i very much hope you dont feel that your real home is with the rich. I know that they tried day and night to make you feel that way. Showing you photos of your previous life there. Making you think that because your father entered my body one day to make you grow there that this somehow gives you rights over your life. Call my father. Hes trying to get a hold of your passport. If the judge agrees to this and opportunity allow me to receive the money if i dont hand over the passport, we will have serious problems, peter. Dont talk about this with them with them it is very delicate i want to tell you this so you dont trust them too much. Rosalynn, my stepmother wants to give me right and promises but she doesnt have power and calls very slippery ma malative as always you always love those who are around you peter they treat you well. But you must also think about what youre losing if you stay there for years and that will affect your mind, your attitudes, your personality. I continue to believe youre a sane boy peter. Thats why you easily adjust to new experiences. But you now need to think very seriously whether you want to totally adapt to the life of luxury and security. Raul and i are a little bit crazy for sure. We do not care at all about respectability. You have to think about why we have chosen to be this way. You can be stronger and more conscience is from having spent a few months there. Or you can sell out to the experience without caring. It was a risk to leave you there. You are young to be risking your life but you have lived much and youre not so innocent. I may visit you within weeks. Dont announce that. Youre imprisoned there without knowing. I love you. Your momma. My mother wanted me to feel like i was in some sort of prison but thats not how it felt to me. She wanted me to feel like i would be a sellout if i stayed with my father and i feared she was right. I didnt know how to respond to that letter so i didnt write back. All right so this last thing i will read which was probably the most emotionally tortured moment of my childhood, was shortly after that letter and that time period. The warrant for my mothers arrest was issued by the Sheriffs Department of to hour after my teachers at the elementary reported me missing from the playground. The official charge was, quote, enticely child under 14 years of age un, quote. And all points bullets with our description was sent out by the police to authorities at airports. Train stations and bus sayses but it was too late. We with already crossed border and if i knew because it was shoredded in sheriff stint report. Peter in a beige turtle neck shirt with a white stripe and fur trim ared hood. These were my only clothes until we reached peru a few weeks later. My father kangted the fbi and state department but no extradin could be granted from peru. I had finally agreed, however, reluctantly to collude in my own kidnapping which took place at noon on wednesday december 10th, 1975. I sneaked oflt schoolyard during lunch recess my mother was waiting for me outside the playground in a red vw beetle the engine running. She disguised herself in a thick black wig and glasses i would have not recognized her if she not waved from drivers seat. I walk quickly toward car and got in and we sped off. Despite the cold my mothers forehead sweaty and pail against the winter heavy coat she wrapped around her frame everything go okay my mother squeezed my hand as we turn corner no one suspects anything . I shook my head and squeezed her hand back. I didnt say anything fearing my words would betray my em bev lens we drove in silence. As we approached the detroit windsor tunnel when runs to link United States to canada tears started rolling down my cheeks. My mother pulled over to the side of the road. Diewpght to do you want to go b . Were almost to the border she was trying hard to seem calm by i heard the wobble in her voice. No i replied wiping away tears with my coat sleeve i wanted to be in the car with my mother right then. But be i also wanted to be running arranged playground back at the school. I did not look at my mother fearing she would see indecision in any eyes and did not press me. She meads me realize to get a different answer if she asked again. I changed the subject teasing concern it you look really goofy with that big puffy wig and ugly glasses. I had never seen her in glass and wig made her head seem huge and started car again. Yeah youre right ill take this thing off as soon as we cross into canada. We made it to peru a few week later to lima a couple of more paragraphs made it to lima by christmas two weeks after we fled michigan. I was back in peru and my mind straddling two worlds. We spent that christmas dancing and lighting fireworks with rauls family. His mother becca and sister victoria. Three brothers carlos and juan and small home at the outer edge of elle el salvador 700,000 own southern outskirts of lima. My mother and i were warmly welcomed their home had no Christmas Decorations with trees and presents underneath but did not damping the family festive mood lube can i kateed lubricated by beer and more than nothing than desert with slums organized a nighttime takeover in bold defiance government. With when the police came to evict them and tear down their make shift shacks with the squatters refused to move. Wishing to avoid a potentially bloody confrontation, the government eventually relented in trickle of new squatters turned into flood of thousands of people rushing to stake out plots of land. , though, the sandy harsh terrain not exactly welcoming. Squatters were attracted to prospect open land not far from the capitol. Had no electricity or running water, tanker trucks came by to fill up two rusty 50 gallon metal barrels infront of the shack. Toilet was a hole in the sand in a screened off area with old newspapers for toilet pirp and can of lime poundser to dissolve shit when they keep muggers at bay it was dangerous to go out at night and slept together in malt tres and woke up in itchy phlebitis. I intensely missed my flee free beds and saturday morning cartoon and ad flakes but i resissed saying that tolmy mother and this time unlike our first arrival in south america more than three years earlier, i knew what to and adapted without complaingt. Complaingt. Complaint. Thank you. So what im going to do is just maybe kick off a conversation by asking peter a couple of questions that was fantastic and really, very powerful especially the reading which is great. So let me ask just a couple and then open it up. The reason i think this is such an amazing book is that it kind of weaves together several complex stories. You know, on one hand, it gives us a very personal window into a series of political identities whether its the cueing in l chile or berkeley in late 0u, early 70s. And then back alternative radical politics whether it was in denver and interesting take into that period of period of american and Global Political life. On the other hand, its intensely personal story as we just heard. And its a story of quite a chaotic childhood. You know, certainly very untraditional. Your mom you talked about raul. But there were many relationships that you remember involved in, you know, kidnappings more than once, and putting you in some positions that were not just untraditional but sometimes actually dangerous. If not certainly inappropriate. So very different from the norm offed childhood that we normally think of. And yet what was so interesting so when i first read this and i was reading i read a couple of drafts certainly the very first draft and i was read about some of these untraditional childhood experiences and as a parent i was on the one hand very angry for peter. And i thought man i cant believe that you, you know, experienced this, and you were putting many this position and on the other hand the the shift of emotion change haded to the incredible love that existed that your mom had you that existed between you and incredible loyalty and way that she was challenging you even as a young boy to think beyond yourself and a stuff like that. So its a truly interesting complex story. And so i guess i wanted to ask u you how did this childhood shape your approach first to you being a parent of Young Children to parenting and the way you think about that and also how did it maybe shape the kinds of topics that you choose to work on the way you do your professional life. I mean i can guess that it be good to hear from you. Thank you, rick great questions. A lot to chew on. Yiement contrast you start out with which is sort of shocking but also a lot of love. You know, as i out put it in the very end of the book in epilogue i partly wrote epilogue because you said you need an ten log for this book i said fair. So the one liner would be my mother was incredibly negligent sometimes but i never felt neglected so a big difference so i teat the love definitely felt wanted, i mean, years fighting over me, right. In terms of you know reflecting on parenting, you know, im doing everything the opposite of what my mother did and maybe because of that or done it that way in that regard probably more up towards my fathers end of things. Yeah, i cant one lesson from the book arguably is theres no right way to parent, and that i things thm extreme and completely wacko from our perpghtive today maybe were still kind of extreme back then but less so. The context really does matter and i think weve lost something that kids cant go outdoors and play this streets and you have to kind of surveil everything theyre doing and youre considered criminal if you if you dont watch over them every minute. So maybe weve gone on o sit direction too much in that including myself frankly. Your last question which shapes what i work and it wasnt really until i did this book that it dawned me that u you know i work on borders, smuggling, elicit trade, and clandestine crossings and kind of it is really are so obvious in some ways because i didnt read stories but my mother actually used me as a smuggler in getting out of chile she wanted to sneak out these political mementos so as we were crossing border into bolivia chilean soldiers were frisking everybody but i was only eight years old my mothers side so didnt frisk me, and they just waived me through, and basically she used me to carry political poster outfit if this would have confiscated maybe they would have given us a hard had time. But when we left after that last story that i read about the sort of abduction. The settlement money was all in cash. And so raul and she and i would we were in canada but then crossing into mexico. And she sewed pockets into my pants to carry tens of thousands of dollars with us here so basically smuggling cash into mexico. [laughter] so coincidence with this stuff now but i dont think so. Never i never put it together kind of interesting i never really anyway. Let me ask another question had is what you began the presentation on. How you started the project. So you discover this cache of notebook and diary and my memory is that you read them initially and back years later and reread them and started this project and given how ho different this is from the other things that you have written tell us a little bit more about like process you went from reading your moms diaries and then revisiting them number of years later and then trying to imagine how you would translate this into this wonderful memoir. I know, initial impulse was reading catching up from literal lit moment she died. But then when i turned to this kind of i start with the beginning of the diaries decades earlier so it is opposite, and you know, the initial reading after she died i was in in the midst of scrambg for tenure here at brown and cold turkey and not reading diary and putting them into storage so i didnt dig them out until years later and i started reading from the beginning. To the prison but especially focussings on years together in south america and first i used them as a kind of source of information. And details of where we were and places and names and so on. But then as i got into it, i realized its a much richer story if i actually weave the dies into narrative itself. So her commenting on something about us being broke but at the time i had no idea we were broke. Or you know, her reflection on me remembering it differently and then comment in the book that we have these differing interpretations of things. So it was yeah, so in other words it wasnt just sort of background material for writing my book but it became part of the book. I should say it wasnt strict diary but letter and correspondents, and books that she had written. And my father had kept meticulous Record Keeper had kept every piece of paper related to custody battle. Every correspondents with lawyer and lawyer and son and the them into two fat folders for his own sake when i told hem i was doing this book he doesnt talk much about this stuff. But he handed me those folders and you know, use those were extraordinary valuable as well. I wouldnt have had the you know, in preparation for this bock or in process of doing it i readed childhood memoir and theres fab louse ones out there something i had not done but a rookie in this realm but astonished me to degree of which people can write childhood memoirs without raw material i need those diaries to do the job. Great. One last question. And then open it up this book i think, is so powerful because you open yourself up. You share all sorts of memories, emotions and experiences that most academics you know would never share. Certainly not in their traditional lished work. Whats that been like for you . Inch well first few drafts of this more purely descriptive this is what it was. How it happened what and why we were there a distant narrator sort of but pushback i got from from editors and readers including from you i think was dont just tell us what you did but what you were thinking. And what you think of it now. And so you absolutely right. Its uncomfortable new terrain to write about that and put it out there. I think i had to write the straight actual narrative first to then hang the emotional stuff on to. To sort of that was most comfortable doing but i think the book is hopefully more i dont know deeper in some way by having that that emotional element. But its yeah it was hard. It was, you know, hardest writing ive ever done by far. Great thanks. Lest open it up. So peter you want me to comment sure, please to start with lena over there. If you can raise to my o kro phone. Taping peter, thank you so much. I came just to hear about your mother. And i think its to share somebodys soul with whom youre so intimate with the public, it really needs a kind of stress, strength that some of us academic dont have. And i really i appreciate what youve done. So i wanted to ask you the question that i was asked when i showed film about my mother. Actually the same person was sitting next to you asked me this question. They said how do you feel having shared your mother with everybody . And its as a question i never thought about. There was i was uncomfortable about actually letting the film out after sitting on it for eight years. But i think it achieved something and i wondered if same thing happens to yoo that you it has to have either strengthened you or taken a huge weight out of your shoulder i want to ask you the same question. As a son, how was it for you to share your mother and basic what i did to it share my own mother with people i never thought i would, could do that with. Great question. [inaudible conversations] hard but it feels good. Basically i there was this kind of as i think you put it just now sort of a bit of a weight lifted. I, you know, i kind of written this book if she was still alive. I couldnt have written it for apartmently because of the diaries wrnght accessible to me but i also dont think i was in a position to do it and it would be too difficult. Im happy had i feel like i know herbert than anyone else in theo world. And so shes a complex person i think a lot of people only knew parts of her. Some people misunderstood her. And i think this is you know fuller, deeper story. I think she would have disagreed with loved to argue with me about this book probably but glad that she would be glad that i wrote it, i think. [inaudible conversations] so a wonderful presentation, ive known peter since grad school which is over 20 years, and until this book came out i had no idea that he had such a wild childhood. So one question is how did you turn out so normal . [laughter] so maybe ill make that a little bit bit more sky lily but im actually curious about your relationship to your mothers ideology what did you think about all of this radical ideology at the time and later as you got older, i mean, has it affected you left of the ideology did you reject it all. Where whaftion your relationship to that . No, as a as a child i was kind of a true believer in the sense that i was, parts of a fun, an exciting and we had seen revolutionary songs and i got very, very tired of the arguing but you know she really just an example 1976, we just moved back to the United States. We were living in denver. You know ford carter president ial election, november, you know, she sends me to school theyre having a mock election at my elementary school, and she sends me to school with a sign to put up at the rally. It says dont vote. [laughter] so im you know im an 11yearold kid everyone is carter you know and im like dont vote. [laughter] and im like you know im not just a messager i believe the message. But you know, it is fifth grade. I had a political break with my mother. In college after i left, after i left so everyone rebels from their parents in some form or fashion at some point and as i put it childhood rebellion was not to become a rebel. My mom was sort of by her standards i was a conformist reformist i dont know if she use the word reaction their. But it was hard and thats back to the issue of reading diaries. I did not realize until reading diaries how hurt she was that i had, you know, sold out in some ways by having a mainstream life and career. So on. So that was i quote from that in towards end of the book. Sheree. So thanks so much peter so first just to comment youre such a good reader soy hope you to the audio version i hope thats you who reads it. So i was thinking about people whews minority or class identities are already so stigmatized on bad parents about, bad family, broken family speacialt scene about life and being peed on. I wondered your position as gendered you know christian is really different from somebody like you can feel american today and my mother jihadi book web and it wouldnt be the same thing. Right. Or you know, a racialized miesht where like youre already so stigmatized as people who cant properly pan it so i wonder if that position made you feel sort of safe that you could come the with these details. Or were you choired that you would lose that kind of status that you have . Probably unsatisfying or disappointing answer. That from my perspective, i was not i was not reporter particularly selfreflective that im a white man telling story about my white mother. I felt like i was just telling it like it is and how i felt it. But until you asked it this question it didnt even occur to me to think well if i was a different race gender or class telling this same story how qowld it come across to others having said that class is a tricky question. This case because my mother was well educated but we were dirt poor. Many much of the time so people in our review were often similar or much, much worse. So i did not feel like i was the middleclass, Middle America or wealthy. And in fact when i lived with my father briefly my mother as you can tell from that letter she gave me a really hard time for worried that i was selfidentifying with upper class. So ill have to think more about your question which i thank you for. Other questions peter, i come from a middle west mennonite background so it said your mother wases mennonite i know a little bit about mennonites particularly mennonite who is broke away came away in 1970s was your mother that or another kind and knowing what i know about mennonites very solid families, with women are greatly respected. And education isnt that important but pretty important because you have to read the bible. So could you give us background about your mother and what broke her away from that tradition that she became this traveling radical . Im glad you asked that question because i real theres so much you can cover in a time i chose certain things to read and not others. But, i mean, one of the more astonishing parts of the story is my mother was a pacifist mennonite from a town of 5,000 people in central kansas. Founded in 1870s where everybody or around there were mennonites. Very traditional everybody you know went to the same Mennonite College which was local bible college. Popular, you know, 500 students i think didnt venture out much if you did you went to other mennonite communities in the midwest and minnesota, elsewhere. And i wongts call it completely closed, you know, society or o community. But it was somewhat in you know a lot of intermarrying and so on. Part of what attracted her to my father she was 18 and he was 21. They dated once a week, held hands kissed for the first time three years later got married when she was 17 she rushed through college by 19. So that she could be him but with what attracted had her to him is he wasnt religious as other people. His mother wanted him to become a minister and he didnt want to. And they both aspired to go to graduate school which in their case meant going out of state. And so she was kind of her ticket out of town. And her her family was a little, you know, dont have enough time to get into details but difference than typical mennonite family but you didnt dance. You dont play cards. You dont you know you have the dances at the high school are there. But theyre for kids from other side of town. And so on but she was itching to get out, and my father facilitied that and he didnt want to stick around either. So my father now is moved back. Yeah. Back there with my stepmother rosalynn theyre back there. Yes. My father was asked whether he wanted to continue church or play baseball but he couldnt do both. [inaudible conversations] my father chose [inaudible conversations] yes, my mother my mother first questions to my father was what do you play . And hes not athletic at all so he smiled and said i play the radio. [laughter] he had a car and it did have a radio. So actually another question mine has a development and scholarly ending but i want to pick up on point sheree was making and just think about how we were further on that not to say that any particular privilege or not. But it strongly emerge around tieflt economic clash that emerged a whole series of sort of tv series, about sort of white suburban beginning from someone takes flight. And children for example, weeds is most classic i dont know if you have ever saw weeds very popular so, you im talking abot this comedy if not a depression but economic clash in which a family takes flight. But is it the kids im wondering a certain kind of identity can take flight and difference is saying what this would be. Is that theres a home to return to and theres a sense that there isnt a stable normal to which one can take flight and return. So scholarly question if we dont think of the left as ideology the playground and do you think of that was that home or do you feel estranged from that as well or renal against that or characterize that too or is that simply the normal and how would we think about where you have done after you took flight . [inaudible conversations] good question. I mean, the permanent imprecinct of a home is to not have intense attachment to any place. I dont i default when people ask where are you from, i say Denver Colorado because thats where i went to high school in junior high, and so on. Spent the longest trade of my life at that point. But i dont really feel like im from anywhere. And my mother she could have never returned to kansas. Absolutely not and i certainly returning to detroit i left when i was five. I wasnt, it wasnt something that i thought oh wasnt like a comfort zone. [inaudible conversations] logically remained home . [inaudible conversations] i dont know if this adds to your question i developed a strong urban bias if thats what you mean. Regardless of who i was i always wanted to be in cities but i go on. [inaudible conversations] maybe like elaborate. Get the microphone and get microphone first whether playground is met for type of home that is your true home as a whatever identity you have. Whether the playground or your fathers home is feels like your real home that you and your mother took plight from that but that feels like what you were alwaysmenting to get back to or you could get back to thats a possibility for you and maybe in a way thats not for other people like the people you met in south america . At in point in this story did i have a longing to get back to something. It was always a moving forward story. Andty never felt nostalgic or wishing i stayed somewhere. Doesnt mean where i was was perfect or wonderful or not. But yeah. So i dont know if that gets to, playground metaphor not just a metaphor but its real you have playgrounds, and in latin America Playground was the street always. And actually thats a better playground because [inaudible conversations] if you can normal again . U do you see the depth of the question that shes pulled . To be normal again . I have trouble with that word, normal. Ive always felt like a misfit and i guess i feel moved forward, normal now. But i dont feel i still feel like a misfit. Thats okay. [laughter] but i actually am jealous of people who have a deep sense of belonging to something or place or whatnot because it never developed for me. This question right here. Peter, the kawrl in carol ine book was not carol that i knew. There were pieces of it. You know, i realized your so right when you say people are so complicated and you dont always know who a person, who a person really is. And i didnt know what you were going to through in demp devin denver in your and after i read your draft i think i was crying and i said im so sorry that i didnt do anything. To help, and carol was one of my best friends ever. Huge influence in my life, and in the book the the clunky polemic i never carried for her clunky polemics they were sort of little offshoot but this sort of steer away from. She was just such an extremely decent person in my life. And im just wondering the people that knew carol, your brother and the people that knew carol can you talk a little bit about peoples reactions to the book . I mean, i love the book and im so proud of you, and its so incredible that you wrote it. But i think that there are so many other ways other than some of the things that have just been said here today that are even in the book of knowing her and knowing what a a principle generous, spirited, thoughtful of everything, connected really decent person she also was and im not saying im not doubting varsity of anything that has that youve said or youve written. But how have people that knew her and loved her reacted . The great question. Carol she mentioned actually in the book its Close Friends in denver especially in the early years we were there. You know, my oldest this is partly a sort of only child story because i have two older brothers so most of the story is just my mother and myself. But my oldest brother joel who read it many, multiple times for different stages of the process he extremely supportive. But much more sympathetic to my mothers politics and decisions and so on. So u you know, he would be first to say peter you experienced it differently than i did, and so therefore its fine its right he was much older and her experienced it differently the downside was not serious for him. Other people knew my mother well not many people have read this yeast and im bracing for the reaction. [laughter] in fact, im giving a tack in denver next months at the bookstore across the street in my Old High School and there will be number of my mothers old friends there who may or may not look at the book yet. You know, one of our sisters has read the book. And mostly was supportive. Yeah, but not that many people have have read it so im holding my breath but you know, i have to say i didnt write this book what if people say if i write this or say it this way because so and so will react. I had to really kind of it shall push that aside when going through final drafts sure. Polished out some of the edges but i did not want to write a book thinking the entire time what are people going to say who knew her or yeah. I think we have time for maybe one last question over here. Experience all of these events together, so i wonders how in your writing how you reconcile your perspective with your mothers. With conversations with her and her letters and and written where from my perspective this is why she would argue with me about about it because if it shes alive today at the same time it is or story but i do not try to weave well her perspective woven into some degree interesting in a thread that helps hold the whole book together so people do get her perspective on things that way. But ultimately its my story even though frankly shes far more interesting fern in the book. [laughter] could be nor conversation in reare seption following this please join me in thanking feater for sharing it this wonderful story. And thank you all for coming. Really great. Every weekend booktv offers programming focused on nonfiction authorses and books. Keep watching for more, here on cspan2, and watch any of our past programs online at booktv. Org. Hi im marissa Innovation Lab at the Commonwealth Club and thank you to the conversation request adam. Hes author of the brand new book wild ride inside ubers quest for world domination, and executive editor of fortune. Now if you havent noticed it hasnt exactly been quiet on iewb per news front. Soe