Do we see these guys have value in their kids lives than did so issue dictating visiting time which we dont do today. Not for men who are unmarried. We should be insisting dads comment see their sons. We should ask her dads name on the parental contact form at schools. We should reform Child Support so that it is an incorporated activity. Right now we fixed pics the pockets but we dont give them rights to see their child. But fathers want to do is bring over the panthers and the reason they want to bring over the panthers is because this gives them a chance to feel like a provider. If they bring them over, they are providing the three most important things arguably a baby needs in terms of material provision. This fills men with pride. The principle of treating men as if they matter and fathers as if their parents do not pay checks and have a valuable contribution to make in their childrens lives were transformed thinking about a whole host of policies that treat them as if theyre unemployed. Host kathryn edin and her husband Timothy Nelson are the authors of this book trained by fatherhood in the inner city. This is both tv on cspan2. And outcome of discussion on privacy rights in the digital age. Good afternoon. Bulk onto them and not bliss book festival. Turn off your cell phones muted in some way shape or form so we dont disturb the fine gentlemen here. For the first 10 minutes i will be asking questions but afterwards ill ask you to line up and ask them questions and ideas. Comments are welcome as well. Right there in the center. My name is for shorts and im the head of technology department. The Wonderful School and i welcome you. Prior to making introductions as you throw out some points i would like you to consider, as they make their comments and also when you do your questions. According to semantics, an Internet Security company in 20 for income internet threat report have increased by 23 last year. Of that, the Health Care Industry was hit with 37 of the breaches. That includes income. 11 was the Retail Market target and 10 in the education sector. A friend of mine told me the other day that samsung tvs smart tvs in terms of Service Agreement has a clause that says please be aware of your spoken words include personal or other sensitive information, the information will be among data capture and transmit it to a third party through your use of Voice Recognition. And of course we hear about nsa surveillance. So what i would like to do is introduce these fine gentlemen and for the first 30 minutes i will be asking them questions in the final 15 minutes we will invite you to come up to the microphone. To my right is Mark Rosenberg president and executive director of the Information Center in washington d. C. He teaches Information Privacy enough for Government Law at Georgetown University law center and frequently testifies before congress on emerging privacy and Civil Liberties issues. Marc rotenberg testified before the 9 11 commission on protecting privacy and preventing terrorism and of of the third amicus briefs for federal and state courts. Mr. Ruttenberg is coeditor of privacy in the modern age. And the center is Amitai Etzioni, University Professor of International Relations at George Washington university. He served as Senior Adviser at the Carter White House and taught at columbia university, Harvard Business school and the university of california berkeley. A study by richard poser ranked him among the top 100 intellectuals. Professor Amitai Etzioni is the author of the new normal at the industry and six. Jim writes in the new york times. Hes worked in newspapers for 35 years. Last year he published an interactive but called off conviction, in a sense, guilt and find uses in of videos and media tools to show how mistakes we make in everyday life can become embedded in criminal justice system. Mr. Dwyer has written or coauthored five other books including 102 minutes unforgettable story of the right to survive in the twin towers which is a National Book award finalist. The author of more awesome than money. First well start with gin. During a recent conversation you and i have come the mention privacy and privacy settings are an illusion. Can you talk about this and about this and i think it is Something Interesting to show on the screen. Share. We all know that we dont want mom to be looking at the picture of us on facebook but the budweiser logo printed around our navels or any other crazy day that might end up in a public space like facebook. So over the last five or six years, facebook, prodded by some of its competitors has made finegrained control part of its offerings to the users and not says okay i can set up this post so it is only seen by this body of friends for that post only goes to the people on my Softball Team or what have you. But one thing never excluded from that, whatever you put up they are his face but it sells is omniscient. It even knows when you have had second thoughts and started to write something and acts it out better before you hit the post button. Theyve done some extensive studies have facebook about what they consider lost content. Most of us would consider it perhaps prudent speech. We are in nah of what i consider the big bang moment of the digital age. Things are still flying around, taking shape in ways that we have no ability to discern yet. Privacy is one of these terrifyingly complicated parts of it. We should all consider for the World Wide Web came from. For many of its most useful features came from. They rebuilt individuals not built by corporations. They were the ideas of a few people who are able to use sweat equity rather than major Capital Equity in terms of major advances. I ended up writing about these four young guys who are College Students who decided they wanted to build an alternative to facebook. One of the places that has this do it yourself, drag yourself up by your bootstraps dna that is intrinsic to understanding the age we are in is mozilla which makes a browser called firefox. Im going to show you a tool that firefox can add to your browser. Spin around and look up at the screen. There are things called addons that you can attach to your browser. There is one called lightning that im particularly fond of. So what lightspeed does is keep an eye on who or what has attached his love to your browser without you necessarily knowing that. Right now this doesnt look like a whole heckuva lot. Lets close this thing here. So what we are going to do here is try a couple of sites. Lets see. Espn, worldwide leader in some interest there. New york times. Ive heard of that paper. Lets try cspan. Lets see what happens when we put it on cspan. Cspan. Org . And there we are. This is very meta. Lets just go for a sad citibank happens to be a bank i know. Now we will go back to late he. There are the things that all of those triangles for resigned Third Party Trackers that have attached themselves to my browser in the last 90 seconds. Here is familiar times and around it somehow facebook got in there. The new york times. Com facebook. Com and their cspan connect did to type it out at which is connected to the times as well. There is a cspan video. Down here we have citibank. But if they got on there . But google is our friend except google is collecting every bit of information every thought you have been auctioning it off every second of the day. So the 16 thirdparty site are up there right now. That is right. That site you will see it. If we just add a few more things, but in home depot put in what you might be interested in shopping for. You will find the entire screen in motion with this thing. This is sort of meant to terrify you. Only in this land that when kids take drivers side, they are shown videos of car crashes. What happens when you dont do this . This is part of what our social education not to involve the level of tracking that is invisible to us until we turn on Something Like the lightspeed site. Is that terrifying . I dont think it is terrifying. It is a reflection of how we are rid the early stages of a policy discussion and that is why we decided to write a book titled privacy in the modern age, the search for solutions. I should say a few words about the genesis of the book because it will help you understand the significance via the privacy issue is not only a daily lives as just described an enormous frustration of people trying to wonders and who collects information about them, which is a real problem, but the big policy and legislative questions that congress confronts, the court confronts, diplomats between the United States and the European Union currently discuss about the flow of data. We are in the midst of one of the most significant policy debates including technology in a very long time. Just returning to the book briefly, it is partly about the beginning of an organization. I founded it airs colleagues and friends 20 years ago called the electronic privacy Information Center and the book traces our history. Heres the remarkable part about the book and coming back to jims point how very familiar these issues are. And what we are concerned about is the use of vulnerable technology that did not provide adequate privacy for email emails and what we were concerned about is the lack of security and stability and this has been a very big debate since mr. Snowden disclosed documents in june of 2013. And there is a fine expectations for privacy in the modern age. This is also about the many people that we have worked with and the expert advisors who are Technology Experts and those that provided the Building Blocks for modern Security Standards that all of you rely upon when you go online and you make a purchase through amazon and you type in your credit card number, theres a reason you can do that securely and that is because in the early days certain decisions were made about ensuring that your credit card number can pass to the host computer without anyone getting access to it. At least in theory if that works at the great thing because Business Online becomes possible. But when it doesnt work there are enormous problems. So for the last 20 years we have also looked at the challenges pointing to the risks that the nsa created when they said that we dont necessarily want people and its possible that that might be misused and that could be used in ways that pose risks to Public Safety and i would not dispute that, of course, but in a decision about technical standards for the internet that diminishes the privacy that users might otherwise be entitled to, there is a substantial risk. And that is that the cyberattacks that we are experiencing from adversaries that they result from the decisions that have been made to diminish the level of privacy and security that would otherwise be available. So we see this in a big picture about how this is when people go online and its also a fascinating regulatory facilities. And this includes whether Internet Companies raised in the United States provide adequate protection for the eu consumers that go to these Internet Companies and provide personal information. Part of what is going on is a contract between two legal systems. The European Union said more than 20 years ago we want to have a comprehensive approach to Privacy Protection and that this is very important. And we will establish this in any business and it will be subject to that approach and that is the baseline in the European Union. And we had a moment, lets say about 40 years ago where we decided to put the federal government, and we chose most of this with the private sector, sector by sector Privacy Protections for your cable subscriber records and not your magazine subscription. As we enter the internet age we say that we are not even sure that we need lot because evil can make choices that have all of these different options available to them and especially as we make the decision not to put this into law the consequence is that theres very little Privacy Protection for Internet Users today for usbased services and the europeans are saying that we are not happy about that arrangement and we think that the u. S. Is going to need to do more and finally just to get to the third part of the book as we talked about the history of the organizations and litigation strategies, we have this and part of that is to oppose the nsa encryption and we have 50,000 people to sign up and that is like a chat room or something, but 20 years ago and felt like half the internet, we did this with lots of cases and so forth and the last part of the book tried to set out concrete recommendations because it is very much my view the problems that we need to find solutions for, which is not the same thing as aimed at these are problems that can be solved and anyone who has worked in the realm of protection has said i figured out how to call their pollution and Water Pollution and it probably wouldnt take those comments very seriously. And coming back to these examples i dont think that Internet Usage should spend their evenings trying to figure out who is collecting data about changing privacy settings or anything like that, i think that the service should be designed to provide a high level of privacy to the individual and if the individual continues to disclose information, that should be their choice and no one is ever offered the ability to Exchange Data to others. But we are objecting to the current default setting which basically says that the companies can take your information unless you object. That seems entirely unfair. Its a bit like an auto manufacturer saying that we have safety features on this car things like that and so they are all sitting in the trunk and if you want to take advantage you can figure out how to install thats stuff and isnt it fun to drive a car. And is that where we are today fundies the internet . Anothers privacy stuff somewhere and if you have the time good luck with it. And i think that we need to think about the protection of privacy and that is the default, lets establish safeguard and have freedom and choice discloses personal data as we choose. There was the world that changed after 9 11 that we talk about. And we have known that many cities have put up cameras and this includes the conviction of the bomber for the marathon largely attributed to some of the images that were obtained. We hear that individuals are being trafficked to and from the syria and we have also seen if anyone has traveled on route 95 that there is a type of thing that is hovering. So if you have an opportunity, can you talk a little bit about this, are we in a new normal . Thank you. I will talk about this new normal. Talking about this for one minute so we can talk about what we can suggest. And my concern is that [inaudible] my argument is that we tend to think about him like lawyers when we should think about them as human beings. Not a lot the other side says that he is a lovely kid and both sides have two extreme positions and it is what both sides bring to the table. And so one side says i cant do this without anyone taking my picture. And they say that everyone is part of this. And that its too extreme. And so i suggest instead and so i suggest a dialogue that includes conflicting major challenges. So on the one hand you have the ability to make this country great and on the other hand we all want to be concerned. And im not interested in this exaggeration. And so the next step is the constitution and because of the Fourth Amendment [inaudible] and so the Fourth Amendment on this is because it says that there will be no unreasonable searches. And so [inaudible] and so these are the questions. [inaudible] thank you. I think that yes we have that with the 4000 people who have been trained to commit some of the most barbaric acts and [inaudible] because of the contemplation. I dont want to kill them and i would like to know they be baby for the First Six Months and to call. And so do you agree. People come back to me and they had a temperature. [inaudible] and they will stay home for 21 days. I say one by one. And then we will close with this challenge. Because you have the situation that our newspapers decided that the editors are going to be the ultimate judges. National sets can be kept secret. They say the white house pleaded today with the New York Post not to publish the name of the cia station in athens. Have pleaded this with the newspaper and so the newspapers decided they are going to start these efforts and we are dropping some charters. And so we have talked about this intermission just as we have said. And i wonder if they should be the ones to judge. But lets assume that they will not talk about this with al qaeda in yemen [inaudible] and maybe they have crossed the line here. And we have limited time here and i want to get additional points. And as i pointed out to help your industry has been a victim of attack. And i want to talk about technology and Human Behavior and gps devices in our pocket, we regularly swipe their cards and are asked to give our Social Security numbers for loans and they say that we are not pushing back about this Social Security numbers are being stolen fraudulent tax returns are being filed in other peoples names. Let me just jump on in. Its wonderful to be on a panel and we have debated these issues since before this. Also about emerging challenges and issues and we are looking at this perspective and i think that we would appreciate many of those. Coming to your question also the wonderful contribution who is a specialized field that is called behavioral economics and so why is it that people dont do more to protect privacy, why dont they spend more time checking privacy settings or the advertisers who are following them online. In the short answer is that its not rational. Youll go back in and change it back to your original privacy settings. We actually brought this complaint to the federal trade commission. The experience of most users, i think, will understandably be whats the point . Why are you asking me to do this if youre not going to respect my decisions . So in thinking about privacy i think we have to move from the micro to the macro. We have to stop asking the question, you know why is it that people dont push back to the question of why is it that when people try to push back, they meet such resistance . Because that turns out to be a much more interesting question and helps explain, for example why data flows so readily from individuals to organizations even when theyre not aware of it or havent made that explicit choice. And jim is that what you have found also when you researched your book and subsequently . Yeah. I mean, i think that there are legions of young hackers and builders who are trying to make better stuff. I happen to have lunch with one of them, a young man i admire a great deal. I said, you know, i got one of these things, these fit things you know . I wanted to find out, like, how much i was sleeping and how much i was walking. Im not sleeping enough and im not walking enough, how about that . [laughter] i knew that beforehand. But he said, oh, yeah, i was one of the founders of the company that built that thing. Do you know that we collect have a millennia of sleep data every night . I wondered if i could jump over to this. I just want to say we have five more minutes until we are taking ill be so underwater in the next 30 seconds. Talking about these interesting divergent issues, divergent pressures, right . We want to protect ours toes from ourselves from somebody who has been in isis territory and has come back from there and who are they talking to, and all that stuff. I have no problem with the government having a process for doing that stuff. Oc but what snowden and the othert revelations of the other raho showed was that there was err revelations was that there wasi no prophet. A dialogue and it shall not be unreasonable. So there has to be determination of reasonability and so where has that happened and i think that when people assume to be talking about this and that is i think, the real alarming piece of what had come out of this last several years. I dont want some public intellectual making those decisions. That is why we are writing this book and given more time to have the dialogue. So very often it is about the environment and its about men and women. So we need this conversation to balance it and so i just want to add one other completely different point as to why we are not spending more time updating the technology. So we are asking the question of what is important. And the answer used to be that it is part of this. And so we gave a pep talk and i start by saying that you need an inflatable santa claus on your roof tops. And then i said that you need this. And i lost my audience. And i said how about this and youre asked me to leave. [laughter] but its an important time, it becomes so interesting that there are more things. And its not going to happen. There are a lot of economic challenges and a lot of people, because it turns out that additional income really does not buy you this and so the question that we are asking and so once you have those basic needs satisfied. I am saying that once we are all up to this level, we need to continue as we express our affection and then it becomes consumerism is part of psychological pathologic. And this includes how we are limiting things. Anyone have a question or comment or idea two. Good afternoon. You talk about how companies are acknowledging what they do through data. And so when you click the terms of service you kind of agree to that, given the option anyway, we take the thing that costs nothing, we get a little bit of time to see. And so all of these free things that make my life infinitely easier, what i am paying is that google knows how i live my life. Yes, thats an excellent question and you point to the fact that most privacy policies on websites show that terms and conditions do not provide Privacy Protection and thats it for and transformable waywardness glover if you visit our website or do business and this is what we will do with our personal data and you have accepted those and we already see that problem as dumping that needs to change and i dont think that companies should routinely disclose the responsibility and i think that Health Care Companies and banks and others have been subject to this. Customers and clients have been subject to those as well because it is their data and their credit card information and Social Security numbers of become available to criminals and that is your information that the company has obtained and then try to claim and that goes into part two which is what is the real cost and its very difficult for you to ss one of the things that you have none of the price mechanisms that we understand so well and if you walk into a store and you see one in 70 and the other is 100 dirty, you try to figure out if its worth paying the extra 60 and we would say we are all pretty smart consumers not that we are trying to buy a lot of stuff because we have limited resources and we are trying to figure out how to use this and we dont understand at all what happens in the online economy will he we make those decisions and companies are giving you free stuff because they are trying to drive out competitors and they actually have a better product or service if they can survive. But if they are forced out by a company, that competition never occurs. And so i think we need to begin to think about these issues from a much bigger social political perspective than many people have the experience and we wonder what is the real consequence. And i will say that our book tries to promote that discussion we are so used to thinking about the government and the private vector for some people, for some its evil and for some its wonderful sometimes think that it needs to regulate the private sector. We have two different worlds. People thought it was and so it is are you agreeing with me . I am shocked. [laughter] we have agreed before. [laughter] at the very serious situation. I think that most would go berserk. And so the difference between the private sector is a quick and a check and we need a new way to think about it. In the private sector can do what they want. It requests a major enormity of change. Next question . Just a comment verse. Most of this is for economic gain and it would be great if the default was opt out rather than opt in. And the question that i have is the patriot act is being reviewed by congress and there may be some changes to it and maybe not. Could you talk about what you see where that is going to go . Yes, we have five minutes. The current key provisions expire on june 1 and congress is trying to get something done before that debate. I think that the congressmen have a good proposal. One of the goals that we have pursued is to avoid zerosum outcomes and Law Enforcement has real concerns and the question is how do you get a good result in the context of this process. Our view is that one of the best ways is to get transparency and accountability which basically says that yes we need these to protect the public but we need to be accountable on how we use them, to the extent that we can get support for more accountable years, use, i think we will end up with a veteran field. And i think that there is support for it. But who knows what will happen. This might be the last question. To start off with im a technologist and i would like to put a few things on the floor and get your thoughts. First of all as we think about it if we are typing away as jim pointed out you can be entering content if you choose not to enter you just type it out and it is accessed anyway. So the point is not necessarily what does the enduser detoured but who has access to it and route. As such if i am creating things at home on my machine, the very first thing that i do is shut off this so that my machine is not talking to the web. I am not broadcasting it and i dont have to worry about someone else picking up my thoughts. And we all know that there is Voice Recognition software and consequently if im sitting in my room having a detailed conversation and someone and i say that i dont have to worry about that, welcome effectively if there is Voice Recognition content there, it can easily take that conversation and transmit onto the web. Quickly to answer you, even your safeguards wont work, you can still get the information off the keyboard. But the reason for this book is the response to Thomas Edison who simply said what man creates with his hand he should control with his head and we need to think about the use of these technologies over longterm and not just
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