If he can do it. I can do a. [inaudible conversations] we will go ahead and get started. First of all, to our organizing committees i am the moderator i am a policy yesterday and they do speak on childrens issues although i excited i feel she may answer your phone four o if it does go off. Just please take out your phone if you are on twitter if you want to tweak to while it is happening here we have the vabooks. This is free of charge but not free of cost per barrel we certainly have no problem with nonprofit literary festivals. [laughter] but please pick up the debate in the envelope and getting envelopes we can keep the wonderful festival going. Evaluations. There is not to a quiz but we do have Program Evaluations available online. Item no free have paper copies in the back. We want them here to take that further that they are available for purchase and also for sale. So we are ready to go. Sablotny please introduce you first to the author of an associate law professor and former National Director and former denver credit candidate for governor of new york. [applause] and dick teeeighteen teeeighteen 19 and up until verisimilitude jobs linda tirado her writing was picked up by the huffington opposed and the nation and 6 Million People for those living in poverty so welcome to both of them. [applause] we want this to be more conversational than the average panel i have some questions to kick us off that if you have waived or shout. Or i will be the defense need a defense. Please come to the microphone. While you have both written space the same issues the common geography is in a quality with the relationship to democracy. So last you to talk about what is going on with the organizing lately. Over the last few years i could name those that have gone Nation NationalMedia Attention like the National Vote rights in north carolina, of ferguson in the organizing across the country, studentled efforts about campus sexual assaults evened students organizing here locally for so why do we need that . What does it needed to confront and why is it a strategy . I will get back to your. [laughter] but breasts like to walmarts rears the labor protest in a way we have not seen 40 or 50 years. As far as organizing that is great but it is all internet based. With all started with twitter. Now in over 170 cities in the country from taking action imbibe random people that our super responsive whenever anything goes on. Is you can mobilize this in a half an hour which we could on say that a few years ago. So give 3d internet to end a day. That is the and the reason i have a career so half of my vernacular is with memes. Get used to be of those who knew what it was with debris would need all of you to go do this eyehole and now it is a grassroots. And so it is a very helpful trend as far as i am concerned. Right now we are very far away from selfgoverning to have power over their own lives. In and a story a study from princeton the headline is that United States is an oligarchy but what it actually showed is in general it is what most people want to. You remember those good old days budget if people want a financial transaction there will not necessarily get it in this congress but a lot of wealthy people have power but since were not in the era where we get through the law but were those strategic efforts can make the difference there are so many different examples i could use. I will use one for my own home state of new york where people are opposed to fracking new york is the last state that does not have it. They were not supported by the National Democratic party was those organizations that were silent because so many foundations and groups were funded with highly local groups connecting to reach other. So it was true grassroots that this is really crude but organizing where tasks are distributed and where power is distributed. But tasks are distributed. Telling people what to do or what petition to sign or what act to take is all well and good the power is still concentrated with distributed power people have a shared vision what should redo strategically . What do we want to follow down the . So as to hire the local organizing with these crude forms light yahoo or google that anybody could understand. I actually feel the was important with the offline bird dog everywhere he went people said dont do fracking a new york city felt they had more power than any other group because he saw them. Ive learned that in 2009 i was involved with the occupied but if they a understood the physical presence that the heart still beats they still have fears and the nightmares and dreams that if you are physically able present it your there to register people will respond more than just of line in that combination is powerful. I keep getting a exclusively on line. And when i was in ferguson and i spent quite a few weeks there in august and september 1 of the ways three captor cells safe is a ready was online. If there was something going on and then everybody would blue van that direction telling you where we needed to be. To be the director of online organizing for the howard dean, campaign i was a you shouldnt have won 80 more than a car or telephone organizing but the internet is the way in which we live so as much as the telephone so it is to understand power in the internet is the current to will but it should not be seen as separate to use the internet successfully. But to hire the of mine organizer who is in a separate cabin and he will not engage in the core work. They did not understand that is like using the telephone of what you do every day. Ralph reed basically on to own fat and that is why we see that with the work they put in from the 80s from the local levels. It is the same thing. Organizing is in the 21st is in the 20th is in the 15th century but cross class that up until all relative they recently i actually think it is the central at one out of 20 americans some were problematic. With that is where you have 5 of all people have some power. Also a lot higher union membership. We field the absence of that with a core fights that we have right now to Public Education what you see is the hedge fund and people with a lot of money and a lot of power taking on Public Education because day bond tomb get rid of that last bastion of union organization. What do you think about the Current Union structure . And i wonder what he think of the committee organizing and the locals dont have as much power . I of the very uncomplicated person. I do like the centralized power but different unions are different just to be clear. But there is a class dynamic where you can see them separated from their own membership. But that cost is extraordinary if you are not in the fight you lose that trust and competion. Or if you lose your own membership it is not for what they should be doing or the thing that made me work at burger king. Dont sugarcoat. So the question and that i confront is how to redo a collective bargaining in this landscape . There is nothing day can legally do as they are in a contract steamers there are saying selfie could do of the legal level in the Supreme Court with amazon that is of particular interest as day concern of that concentrated power actually takes a futile relationship to our ideas budget should also be concerned if you are interested in labor. But with those exceptions to individual leadership sometimes we fake democrats find it so quick where there are Serious Problems if we dont embrace that people of should be able to unionize with his true the a democratic future. I dont want to live in that utopian fantasy without that countervailing force with the nine unionized organizing outside. I have been thinking about this leantos collective bargaining from 30 or 40 years ago. But that is traditional. And those are affiliated groups but but you find there of localized i cannot tell you paul prayed you have to be to do that. People walking and a burger king these are people that cannot afford to lose their job they sure could not afford to get blackballed there their greatest people i have ever seen in my life. A personal story of one year ago yesterday that it doesnt sound personal but it is. To see if i am interested in running for governor for this state of new york. I the politics i thought about it for six weeks. I didnt think the governor was to ring up a good job but i had anxiety about being attacked personally characterized the things that i was or was not and i saw a documentary film called the he and that feeds that is about undocumented immigrants and to these men and women were avoiding deportation and to organize against is interested revisionist and i thought wedtech of cow birdhouse would i be because im scared about my reputation . These men and women are risking their entire life and it had a real effect on the wear bravery is really happening in this country. Cowled the of you have heard of the . For a few. I was told late one night i had the couple of beers my friend says of the wrong on the internet and i immediately corrected them that also got me a book and also got recovery agent of the york times when the truth is vital if Fact Checking is taking a beating. And they forgot to fact checked. [laughter] but those things happened and those reviews is the downside because anybody can inside of for twitter or have your email. It has happened several different times in the last year because i got hovel to say that it sucks to people or. But my friend a saudi. It was awful during those 38 months and so how much are we not doing because people dont want to put themselves through that. I think a lot. That is a legitimate. If i had a choice i would have stopped some of attacks inside dont see no way out of it but a lot of people who really want to run for office or a cat it is who feel they dont want to step down. I dont want to lie to them i do fake it is false but instead to have that open conversation it could still be worth it. It is important. I was sitting on the sun porch on a of record chair and i had the realization this will happen to my reputation and whether or not i actively do good. Having not painted into that quarter i dont think i would do anything that i have been doing but it is interesting to have sold in the people of reach out the bible and to do something can we keep my name off of it . I know it is hard but to say i have this interview in the wicker chair. But to say you cannot to control to react with truth and integrity regardless . Thesis is the koch to the point i would either drop or i run it and those were my options. So i came back with the books of our talk to rich people for a living. [laughter] spirit to talk about that narrative about you personally feel also talk about those mythologies that has been in created with those larger stories right or wrong you tried to put some light on but it is said to even in the abstract concept so why is it so hard touche changed those narratives . I the cat totally the of refers reefers that government and society with the genuine civic culture is so rare. Handed is impossible and dayside debris have made it happen in this moment that we have. I will step back i turned 88 when the berlin wall came down. And their of was us since we have solved democracy to be the soviets just as every other country catching up but it indebted one positive direction. Because of that and its cleaned up what we have over here but these are structural problems. I do not see the world that way. It is a constant fight against racism and the kind of genuine and mutual respect. So i flipped it on its head. Time with her. [laughter] people seeing the trees but not the forest so talking about when we are left to do a talk about racism and sexism but i worked as a bartender so tell me how to use separate my wage from sexual harassment. And rigo the more work you have to do to get to where i do and i was barely surviving. When i first wrote the thing the phrase that my neighbors used to lots is a baby daddy. We expect them to use that word i caught so much hell because everybody had that coated thank you must be black and from here. I do say you do realize there is more for white folks using those resources . Because blacks are 12 percent of the population. Sole lot of my work is just telling people that these things intersect you cannot follow one with of holistic look so the bull is to remind people i dont care how much. You have get worse how to make my life better or your life with though wealthiest country in the world . Why do half of fellow workers dont know how much money they will make and why is that my problem . Tsa have enough power to change so world i barely have the power to change the temperature of your french fries. It doesnt work like that so with the fight that were up against is a very deliberate right to separate the issues to treat them as a state as it is embodied in the Chicago School with a group of academics trying to tell Us Associated with free market fundamentalism that we can see economics with each from three 1 3 to have that examination and here and then to go back to the beginning of the 20th century but it is very serious what were taught we are taught to read the business page i think we should talk about faith and grace and in politics altogether all the time. Because that is the way that life is lived. So my real passion is Public Financing with antitrust. The reason im here so much about antitrust is first of all, it falls apart in 1981 right after the Civilrights Movement so they stopped in for save the laws to break up companies in the reagan era a partial response to the civil rights movement. Then you see this incredible concentration of wealth and power and we lost the political language people of the 19th century row also interested of race in our country. The abolitionists that was flogged in the house of the senate was also a big antimonopoly organizer. We have forgotten this part of the history that connects power in a serious way but we have forgotten it because we have been funded to think of them and separately. If anybody images hayak i have to tell the story is completely inappropriate. [laughter] but when we got together in our own separate communities people talk about gender issues or class and what you find is those conversations start to overlap in dicey flocks when 1 billion hoodies my friend works of that organization there are women that say this saving idea about class and i did realize that. So we see oliver fights our own personal take to be disenfranchised their own personal take on having no power but i am of woman and until very recently i had no hope to be in the middle class a was a workingclass girl so the issues are gender sexuality and class. But that doesnt mean that doesnt Read Everything i am saying does not apply to many in this issue is in the beautiful thing about the new organizing we can see that so clearly that naturally will cold way to see people in their 20s or 30s that are very interconnected in a way that i have not seen with those counterparts to be on this issue or that issue but i am a young person from the internet but i fake it is good and it will work out. I would be remiss that we do have the alcee real panel female panel. But to talk about the city is an interruption it does pose challenges and in the timer internet and social regis is breaking through with the literary critics critics, what it you have to say to the young women now who are looking to share that voice . First it says in an extraordinary joy and freedom to the politically engaged as someone whos spent a life organizing against corruption i dont want to be a part of of world that dissuades people from getting involved so electoral work so when i see is there is excitement about working for a nonprofit. About a total to stave for running for office. Asking a young woman who is organizing a couple months ago led syracuse she had lot of things to say that were thoughtful. She said i cannot do that. Lied not . She didnt have an answer is that because it is corrupt . Because it is square showing my age. I dont think that is a word. [laughter] but she said half corrupt and half a square but there is that the then head of comcast or jpmorgan benefit more from young people not using their power to run for office to stay out of the electoral community. Those kids in hong kong would do anything to have that right to be on the ballot and the fact that successfully through the ideology it is not the thing to do is see incredible boon for those corporations a and the incredible loss. So i say absolutely. Cpac i botched politics by q watching the kardashian is. Because as you cannot find anything funny years and lindsey graham. That we can watch these things if we simply look for the fund a. And it is politics so there is plenty. But the most important device is just go find the thing that is wrong and fix it. Whatever capacity you have, would never join a find something you cannot live with it the like this and fix its her cohosh. This is a stereotype that women are likely to think they have to be the very best person for the job before they choose to use the get out where the men are likely to think i want to do said job therefore i am the right person so if you were out there thinking i am not the best person to fix it that is not the question the question is if you put like that job. Attwood go further to say i am not the best person for that job. [laughter] nobody should give the power or anything like that. But they did because the parole has day collectives delusion you would rockandroll with it. And what i found is the you know . But the but the heroes your secrets or your secret fears and nobody will come for you but added of course, everybody is taking its. They put me on the panel. Plus cat who i am next to. [laughter] we have a question from the audience. I m curious has said corollary that once you get this idea with the Effective Organization would of the things i was wondering as you talk about the big picture but steady say we are paralyzed with the big picture so how would you break that down . Class and gender but i also speak a lot about race you say this is what i know about or what makes my heart to beat but all these other things are important when you will run across folks that want to work on those sokoto youre saying and that is how we get them covered nobody has to specialize in everything in that makes the world go round. Do we have people that are organizing on an issue that could use some help right now . I work on race and gender and i had that time so off i go. But to know where to start . Start with your neighbor. Every time i have been outraged it is because of the internet you say that is the dumbest thing. Maybe a little more gently unless you are free but just talked to folks. That is what date organizing is. Find out what we do for of living but the internet exist. Just google it. Find it 28 groups that the sum total of Human Knowledge is in my hands. Is freaking incredible. People can bad i am on the phone all the time. You can find any information on the internet with including organizing resource is. We love to talk about her own careers. Asked as. And i think a lot of time in misheard organizing over a decade and when people read, to these ideas to say that i thought it was bad but i no longer do that because they think there is a bureaucratic quality to organizing on the Democratic Left rebate for that perfect Everybody Needs to reinvent the wheel if you say dont do this or that then they never learn. We dont know how but second to they followed andrew cuomo around for five years it but a ban on the state. But in person present protest is incredibly important with your governor or city council or somebody running a corporation or whoever that is to be very present. Online or offline dealing with people under 12 is important meetings over 12 you feel good that then they stop taking responsibility instead of the cluster so groups between three and 12 are great but always check your tendency to be afraid. That if i do this i will lose this ally. That leads to silence and there is a real risk in speaking so openly saying what your point of view is so is that selfie energy . Those are some ideas. Bottom of organizing and every situation is different but what about measuring effectiveness . We saw hundreds of thousands of people up there with occupy. But to have the walmart or rick donalds now he hears they will raise wages from were some people is that mean but were talking not the small or too is seeing group. But were they effective . There is a lot of questions and vetted in that. Occupy could change the language in the very serious way that i didnt became a fundamental parts of our dialogue that does not mean they change their answer zero were do everything that occupy might have wanted but there is a change. But there is another question why should i in gauge if something isnt defective . I would say that about any one of the sites that talk about taking on power with most of these with decriminalizing marijuana that may not be a fight as much about changing attitudes but taking on power if i were a rich man. [laughter] i would could not be looking for the situations the 51 percent chance toward greater and that means one out of 10 or 15 the liggett the incredibly successful event lately i am very clear about my politics you make disagree but i am unclear about the second net neutrality. If he said should we bet on neutrality depending on who is engaged or the numbers then faltered through might influence those. The answer is no it is impossible. So with great generosity they credited the each other and they were very hot spoken the doesnt mean now was wrong with year ago but that is those terrifying and so wonderful. Clear the she is a valid numbers and data and i on the other hand talk to people. [laughter] i talked to people. [laughter] but the only thing that is measurable is they are waiting on the paperback i have no idea the impact it has had but they do know there are a toplevel organizers the actual numbers and moving around. And those tutto have that talent. I have shifted hundreds if not thousands. I know that because i see my email. Is that different . And i am talking to conservatives who are they and liberals. That is the path she took then her career in the there have more or less value you measure the effectiveness of the occupied. I am not a huge fan that think campaign is day he good idea. But they told all of americas that you could. That subtle change going back to ferguson the first night we could legally stay out past curfew that they needed to process. The group of kids started the occupied and they fled campout we have no idea what theyre doing there 15 years old years after occupy happened but they knew they could refuse to leave because they heard somebody did Something Like that. How low do you gauge effectiveness . I understand why you want that metric but sometimes you just cant. I want to underline that culture and aretino and compositions are the things so is a moral vision about the world we want to have. And then is the only way even with the difference moving elements. I recognize you from mr. Delaware. [laughter] called on. It is not a complete struggle but you say then Chicago School tried to split up but i have been hearing the word hierarchy. That savings to be about the union. The added does see a useful idea. When you are talking about hierarchies and power it is important to remember whoever needs the help the most is on top. Does not matter who is in charge nobody will remember your name if you read the first to a protest but the point is that you when it but when you tried to value the work to understand we are most passionate about and is it somebody else and will day helpmate . That is our score the hierarchy. A concern that reaches what you have to say i think measuring is elusive. I saw on the news yesterday in Frankfurt Germany that theyre using the occupied land which lightening up industry. So that is influenced but it is effective while the yen per generation coming up has a very different understanding talking about womens equality you cannot talk about that without reproductive rights. There so blinked so that language did washington it needs to incorporate that. Which is why i pointed out there. Though one were have not heard enough today is the word community. Talking about organizing but even as we create those online communities and people meeting in the street, my fear is a loss of key reedy and other ways that used to support people. Can you talk about that . In here is a little dance. [laughter] you are the best. For the bigger demands i have to take off my scarf. [laughter] lead believe the best organizing in fact, i think the word makes people who want to be political things it is not there a thing because it is strategic but if you say at what people over for the up potluck to fix the stop sign not i want you to come over as an organizer. Sova the idea of meetings where having a of the year am breakfast together but it is the central after sb 1070 was passed in arizona i spent the summer summary there with these long powerful marches. Five or 10 miles but that is the tradition because people spend time together to show when somebody needs water they will help them out. Is somebody borough help you with the glass of water on saturday in arizona and then they would be in three years when you work on Different Things creating the trust. One of our jobs is to lay out a positive vision that includes community that is incredibly diverse and exciting with a Small Business economy with innovation with community that comes out of the market. And to the for that to involve us but because those of last years but our fears get into the way of action. I never liked the Term Community organizing. I never have. It seems like a special School Kids Club those that understand that terminology key and that may or may not affect me but most of the people i know or work with to not feel connected to set term because we are fighting it for humanrights to call ourselves the label. I know think that has anything to do with communities were just being human head dont fight the al organized fight any time receipt someone told they are not good enough for but i feel i can as far as said newsstand it is about specific outcomes and actions to see the rule change store the nonprofit set up. For every is all about human dignity. I dont think that has a lot to do with the laws that repass