Taking so much powers because theyre scared. We know this and they dont know what to do about it. When you do not know what to do about it you do what you can do most easily invest. These are people who run these comments to the corporations, so what theyre doing is trying to do what they do best. By digging in harder and harder. Theyre trying to get every bit out there. Its a little bit like Football Players a quarterback is winning a game but he starts handing over the vaulted opposition. He wants to go for 50 points or something. Thats kind of the system we have. When will it change . It will change right away, it is changing but we have to keep sending that message that it is not the number of touchdowns you make, its not the money you make that counts. You and i we all need to send a new message out there. Lets lets face it, we have been sending a message that says, i want good tennis shoes at a reasonable price and if that means it has to be made by slaves in indonesia, i will just look the other way. I want cheap petroleum for my car, that means destroying the amazon rain forest, i will just look the other way. We have sent sent that message. We need to change. We have to send a very, very strong message that we want alike economy. We want corporations to be driven by one goal, and that is to serve us. As well as future generations, to create a life accommodate serves us, our children, our grandchildren, future generations of all species. That is what we are going to insist upon. When we insist upon it strongly enough, when will it happen . Once we insist upon it strongly . Once we insist upon it strongly enough with enough of us really determined, really committed as you are all doing tonight it creates that a world my grandson will look back on when he is my agent 15 years, he will look back and say thank god and you know what, this is so much fun. So i mentioned that when i was an economic hit man i was living a life that i thought was right but i was living off of valium and alcohol. I was miserable. I do not travel first class very often, i travel so much that sometimes that Airline Kicks me up to an empty seat up there because i have a lot to miles. I dont stampers class hotels, stay, stay with friends. Thats even better. And im really happy. This is fun, there is theres nothing more fun than this revolution. I used to say dang, i wish i was born in the 1700 so i could participate in the the American Revolution. This is bigger, much bigger. You know what, if economists have lost the American Revolution it would affected a few people in america, if we lose this revolution, it is going to be the end of human life as we know it. We must win it. It is time to win. We are going to win it. It is the most blessed thing you can possibly do. It is a lot bigger than the American Revolution and it is a lot more comfortable. [laughter] so, are you guys going to win it . Yes. Yes, you bet you are. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It is wonderful to be here. [applause]. Please stay in your seats, well call by rose and we will go from there. Please buy the book and browse the bookstore. Do not feel feel the need to rush out we are open until 10 00 p. M. [inaudible conversation] you are watching book tv, nonfiction authors and books every weekend on cspan2. Television for serious readers. Starting now, a panel on hiphop and literature from edgars college, host of the 13th National Black writers conference. This panel contains language that some may find offensive. I am now here representing, i am in mc invited here from your college, i will be associate professor in the department of Teacher Education where i have been chair. I have been been charged with talking with educators. The job has to be having teachers even some who love our children to start teaching from the love of our culture, the love of our heritage, for the love of our souls of our children rather than judge them. That is why this particular panel is so important for us. I was in a situation and i am confessing that i thought hiphop this and that, this is in the 80s when i grew up. One of these people in the audience was a hiphop artist. And he said well ms. , i wasnt even, i wasnt smart enough to know what i didnt know. He said im a hiphop artist and he started to tell the story of some of what was in the words, in that messaging of the art form, it awoken awoken me, it awakened me rather and i am still needing to be awake and to the depth of an art form, we will not know all of in a short time but we will get a glimpse of our study must be. Does that make sense . So today our moderator, joe morgan is stuck in traffic and you note new york, so need i say more . So, when she does come a new moderator in her place is a wonderful, phenomenal michael, michael i say this, you say that, michael he will be introducing each of the pants will it panelists and following that introduction and after they speak will be time allotted for question answer. , please give a hand, before it is coded hiphop imac and a spend a lot of time discussing the prominent language of hiphop, this panel will be discussing that. I am honored to be jorma morgan for a little bit, i always wondered what it would feel like. With this exchange and not as fine and brilliant as she is, but is, but we are going to work with what we have. It is a real honor to be here on this panel, these these are all friends of mine. I happen to know some of the smartest people in the world and this is an honor to extend this conversation that we often have offline into this particular situation. Let me introduce people who really need no introduction, to my right bestselling author, awardwinning film maker, a hiphop artist in tenured professor at Morgan State University he can say what you want to say. And still not get fired. It is a school that we know what it do it anyway, he is author of four books and i am holding in my hands here is a memoir, he is serving at the Sundance Film Festival now as a feature film developed for the movie adaptation of this book. Its a brilliant book, a memoir, and you see i have pulled out right here shoot me with this knowledge. He and i, we were in studio and we were spent together. We might freestyle up in here. Im looking at this book it looks like a gun gun and i say is this you son . [laughter] he is a brilliant young man, a brilliant artist, a brilliant writer, and he is presented and performed more than 40 countries and received a key to the city of dallas. You have no doubt seen his film, engaging with kwanzaa. He is a remarkable artist and a man who operates in several different genres simultaneously. Really knocking knocking down these artificial barriers between the digital, expression and articulation of knowledge, the sonic articulation of knowledge, and the literary one. We are we are honored to have him here today. Next to him is doctor morgan. You have heard professor peterson shout out her deconstructing, old dirty master and others in such a way that it is stuck in my way. Method man, so some of the greatest artists ever. She is a professor in the department of african and africanamerican studies and founding director of the hiphop archives in Research Institute at Hutchins Center for african and africanamerican research at harvard university. She earned, thats right, she is at the big age. She. She bring in hiphop to harvard son. [applause]. Yell think you have lyrics, we leave you in hysterics, but she her degree at university of illinois chicago, and ma of linguistics and a phd at the graduate school at the university of pennsylvania. She is a very well regarded authority in linguistics, race, culture, and identity. She is an author of many works in those fields. Her books include the real hiphop, battling for knowledge, power knowledge, power and respect in the underground. She is currently launching projects for the hiphop archive website and harvards low Music Library classic of the most influential hiphop albums. 200, while we are going to have to talk about that. And see whats up on that list. See see what they have up in there. Did future make it . I want to understand what is happening in hiphop culture now with the kind of dissonance, the blooms that is pervasive like drake going to the deeply melodic to the kind of rock him inspired, monotone expression, but i want to find out what that is about. Finally we have doctor james peterson, certainly one of the most brilliant as i said earlier. A younger scholar here in america on literary production. Hes director of African Studies in atlee i university. You see you see him on msnbc thrown it down. Wrestling with these people, taking a switch to vers and beaten him. He is the founder of hiphop scholars and the association of hiphop generational scholars dedicated to research and developing the culture potential of hiphop, urban, and youth cultures. He has also been a journalist, you have read his essays in magazines and in newspapers where he is trying to articulate ideas that are of interest to the broader public. He has written about the underground as we have already indicated. Also, his book book that will be published soon about headphones and his book about the prison industrial complex. A gifted and wonderful scholar, all of them of course are and were going to have wonderful and rich conversation. I want to start with doctor morgan. Some people think that hiphop archive is in oxymoronic statement. In the sense that what is being archive may not be high culture, whats been archived is not worthy of a legacy of literacy that would perpetuate its presence and influence into the next decade and indeed arguably into the next century. Tell us the logic behind one of the most elite if not most prominent centers of learning in the western world, that at the heart of that institution you have marked it in a memorable fashion with the power, insight insight and intelligence of predominantly young, black creators who could never darken those iv walls in terms of test scores but whose lyrics are now studied by the smartest scholars we produced. First of all, thank thank you so much for saying that and putting it that particular way because i think what happens, especially when you start a career, i was listening to james talk about the linguistic conference we are at. Think with sticks is an elite field and i mean theres really nobody there. So you know everybody. Theres just a small segments and section of people. They spend most of their time like this just really studying system. I i am a system kind of person. I really notice when people Say Something and our meaning Something Else and different layers that you need to know to do that. I grew up on the south side of chicago in a very vibrant at blackett community of art and culture and music. So you had to listen, pay attention, all of these things are you are going to miss what was really going on. So the concept of what is going on becomes important. So i grew up automatically thinking we must be the most creative, most intelligent people in the world because we understand our families. They are very complicated, very well educated, often self educated, smartest people in the world. We used to have as kids this category called smartest people in the world. And they were all cousins. So were all cousins. So when you come out of that kind of environment and then you go into institutions, all you can think is oh, they dont know. They dont get it. And at a certain point you begin to think about the power of those institutions to stop you. To hurt you, hurt you, to break you, to challenge you. It is that sort of background that put me in a position when i decided to do linguistics, to be very interested in what we understood about speech, interaction, ideology, philosophies of africanamerican communities, african cultures because all of these were studied by others outside of those contacts. We were taught this is what we know about how we really mean, how we intend and how we communicate. This is the law, these these are the rules on this. When you realize, they dont know, they actually dont know, they, they think they know they dont know. So as you begin to work in that capacity you develop a real sense of, i am not going to be stop by their ignorance, but i also have a responsibility to do the job, do the work, and it is not easy and it is not pretty all the time. If you look back at my career there been some really incredibly rough times. But the key is that when you are around young people especially and they are being incredibly creative, incredibly supportive of each other, it is not like in a classroom where you are dealing with, i Say Something you Say Something back. It can feel chaotic, but it is an incredibly powerful learning environment. My interest became how do we really make sure that keeps happening. We want to keep turning that on, will never let it turn off. Never let anybody take it down. As i began more and more to look at the material people were giving me when talking about it became even more important to me to keep going, irrespective of what people didnt understand. I did not think they hated hiphop or anything like that, everybody in the beginning hated hiphop, everybody did. They just didnt get it. They didnt get it. So, that is how it becomes the archive. And lets call it something they value as a name and make them have to deal with it. Its not like the collection or Something Like that. There was a group of very young people who worked with me on what to call it, how to do it, et cetera to make sure that it kept a sense of really about hiphop and not about my needs in a job or whatever. They are the ones who are like lets call it archive. Let me say one more thing before we have joan take over. Hiphop hiphop kids, especially in the beginning collected everything. You think about this piece books coming think about all of these things that matter, that they saw as being part, they cannot articulate at this point but it was the culture they were building. So you have this material culture and anybody who is an anthropologist knows that you do not throw away material culture. You are like oh, oh, look whats happening. You begin to see the patterns and the beauty and development of it. That is how it became clear to me that it belongs in this world, because its serious, its about us and is something we should take seriously. [applause]. Hello i am joan morgan, i am the panels moderator and grateful to be that. My apologies for being late. If any of you are a student are student of hiphop, this is my home. And its very difficult to get to brooklyn if there is no five train running. I had to huber over here. It took 33 movers in a minute but thats another story. This panel is full of people that i have worked with and if i have not, i admire and hope to work with at some point. Im not even sure where we are,. We just had the first question. Okay. Can i add one piece to the archive. Doctor morgan is being very humble in her discussion of what the archive is and what it means. It is really important to know that folks like doctor morgan, and joan as well, laid out a certain kind of foundation for younger scholars to be able to follow. Its interesting to see how this is developed into the harvard archive over time because at first it was doctor morgan supporting graduate students and i dont even know we can keep count of the number of graduate students that have harvard but to think about how that evolves over time is amazing, so that now the archive it has resources to support artists, to bring in scholars who are nontraditional, to work around certain themes that are important to the hiphop generation into our community. You you have evolved the resources at the archive, i dont know exactly how long its been around for over a decade. You have helped shape and form the careers, for at least by my count, scores of scholars in almost every discipline across the academy. Now even people who we think of being scholars outside of the academy. There is important, professional work important mentorship, important platforming for younger scholars that the archive has done under your leadership [applause]. Theres also now a hiphop archive at cornell. So the idea has had traction and emulation is a good thing. My heart goes out to anybody who ever wants to do that. It really hard to keep that kind of thing going. And i really am so proud of everyone and happy to see that is people keep pushing on this. Could ask a question. Yes. The panel that we are doing some decoding and talking about the links between hiphop and literature. I also wanted to expand it to the idea of hiphop being in the academy as a form of scholarship and making different disciplinary disciplinary inroads but i also want to talk about the relationship to journalism. Size size wondering if you could talk to us about the backandforth between hiphop journalism as a forum and what we see now. Absolutely. I think it is safe to say that early on the relationship between hiphop journalism and hiphop scholarship was really tight. I dont think it is as tight now as it was early on. We were reading, as young folks who were consuming hiphop in that first generation, one of the things that was not marked well enough was how deeply influenced and inspired we were by the young journalists are ready at the time. Hanson, there are so many folks, there were writing across different platforms back in the day when magazines were in popular when people went out but magazines on a regular basis. I cannot tell you how jones writing or how dreams influenced me as a thinker and scholar because what happens in hiphop is there are a lot of discourse communities thats talked about. Theres a lot of people and barbershops, and homes, clubs, who sit, who sit around and talk about hiphop. Theres a lot of folks, a lot of conversations, the rapper, the producer, those conversations i think are amazing and incredible conversations to have. Theres a lot of different hiphop spheres where those conversations occur but what the hiphop journalists were doing very early on, they were engaging in the level of sophisticated discourse that was impressive and inspiring. It was also poetic and beautiful. We gave young folks who are aficionados of the culture, not not artists but people who love the culture a sense of how deep and how far you could go in thinking, talking, talking, and writing about it. I think that made us, it made the partnership between journalists and scholars better. You are ready know this but as im getting older i am really invested in the relationship that were able to build to help folks in the cut academy. Ive worked with everyone on the panel, doctor morgan was on my dissertation. Im writing this dissertation on hiphop and its very traditional english department. And it was like lunch time for the district. I finished it, turned it in, doctor morgan is an outside reader shes the first person to sign my dissertation. And that puts pressure on to the department and other folks on the committee. If this brilliant scholar had it signed by her. And i laments a little bit the loss of the relationship between journalist and scholars because as we are starting to grow up in the academy we can leverage resource support. So when mk says im coming to do the philadelphia free, yes im coming to do that. When people call me to try to build that network im invested inches i hope that we can recover some of that historical relationship between hiphop journalism and hiphop scholars. Mk, one of the things im excited to hear you talk about because you actually perform and right, its like a perfect merger, hiphop definitely, i mean my book is about hiphop but just the lyricism of hiphop really impacted me. So theres a reason why it was written in a certain way. But now you know what am talking about. I just want you to talk to us a little bit about this. This is so incredibly hot like oh my gosh. Oh word, thats whats up. Whats up whats up everybody, how are you all feeling . Thank you to the distinguished panel, everybody appear i have researched even before this panel ive known about them, read their work, work, ive studied them, thank you to the shout out to michael for being joan morgan for second. [laughter] he said he always wanted to be you. [laughter] live from the plains of baltimore, what he called this, you dont call it work . In my hood my hood no aquarium, no thanks guarding scared of them. Humbly bought me because i be the color bluntly. We lacked life were on a monthly monthly. Until we burn wake up to this scene, caked up stakes up, unforgettable, im k critical. No insurance with the same visual. Were slave residuals, hot and i get paid in miracles. Dont. Dont get slay because it is subliminal, jump on the nice warm track, shes so much depth in my purse, we got megahertz and im so used to paying, i think i better hurt. Cobain could flirt with philadelphia, pennsylvania, we learn to play ball with a hanger, they used a kutcher balls off when they hang it, but like these are ready in danger, bulletproof, outer range dog, with my young boys rearrange my anger, up early with the sunrise, Georgia Jackson blood in my eye, make this son cry,. [inaudible] take congress to the same place my brother went. Nobody breaks our fights,. Anyway, whats up yall. [laughter] [applause]. For me, i can totally relate what joan was saying, everything about the musicality and the rhythm it so important. It literally its rhythm, my mom was a dancer. So its very important to me. When i write i listen and i will tell you a quick little story. When i was listening to music and i all my books mac i usually listen movie soundtracks or something, just to get that but i couldnt really listen to the movie squares like that because it was too fast pace, the book, the, the story, everything i was trying to illustrate it move like a movie score, it moved like a beat. So i started listening to hiphop instrumentals. As i was writing hiphop instrumentals i was writing the book, the memoir and that was very musical and i wrote about something called hiphop to rap. Its involuntary, you just spit some lyrics out, basically, probably probably everybody in here under certain age has that. You can avoid it. So i started writing, like ive always been a polyp but i started but writing the lyrics on the side that were not really poems. They were definitely bars. I didnt know wire was right in but i kept right now. There was talk about preparation is opportunity so its amazing that im here, at the writers conference, we have doctor green, shout out to doctor Brenda Greene [applause]. Soma professor, im doing my professor thing, im writing books, but definitely not a rapper, yet you know what i mean . When i say not a rapper, rapper, meaning really was a mind thing. To me i was, i was a poet. So i was an mc a ready but didnt even know it. So as i was right these clerks on side i get it crazy call one day from rask has an doctor green son. At this point in time i do not know them, you know what im in . To hit me me up and they said yo, we got the song and its called gods in the hood. And we want you to Say Something like some smart professor type stuff at the end. [laughter] we wanted you to get on and so my friend asked who is going to be here later, dk walkins as can be here later and i said yo can you believe this . Theyre gonna sing the song and he knew that i was preparing for these opportunities. I was already ready to battle people and everything. So i told my boy, they said they want me to talk on it and so might be boy d go do you want to spit on that . And im like not, you dont understand man, they want, they want me to talk on it like a professor. And my man dee was like sorry go to spit on that . [laughter] so like 100 songs songs later, you know i mean here we are. I had a moment, im now with a record label and been traveling, learning, studying, making music, making a lot of songs, doing videos. I think one of the biggest quotes that inspired me was a quote that said the best form of critique is creation. So if you want to know what i think about hiphop just listen to my stuff. Thats how i see it. I love that. The best form of critique is creation. Thats true. Especially because there is a whole brands of selfproclaimed cultural critics and scholars who critique a lot of things and create absolutely nothing. [laughter] so that might be a facebook post, so were going to switch over to west african proverbs. [laughter] one of the things i wanted to do before we switch over to q a is i think this question is typical of where does hiphop fit in the terms of what we think of the canon of africanamerican literature. You already know this about me, i like to, i definitely have have always positioned hiphop as a black that is a diet fork with the heavy ribs in the caribbean, you cant and i that. But i am wondering with this question does it actually even serve us to constantly want to find out where hiphop fits into literary tradition of africanamerican literature, or is it something that actually needs to be archived and thought of and stands on its own space, im wondering if you can each speak on that for me and then well go to q a . I mean my lifes work is so far about showing the interface between africanamerican literature and read music. I believe in that, i believe in the continuities. I believe that the artist of hiphop culture, out about black expressive tradition. Expressive tradition. It is euphoric as well, its really interesting to look at a certain point, but i would say with the ambassadors are my favorite rappers, there is a brother who spent time in brooklyn and he listen to the music you can see how hiphop is kind of like a reverse euphoric effect. Where he is collecting a lot of different experiences, themes, sounds, and cultures and bringing it back. I think for me that relation is strong. It doesnt mean that hiphop doesnt and cannot stand on its own because it doesnt it can i have to be very careful in my own work not to try to legitimate or vice versa. They can be separate entries. There is such a rich share of heritage between what rappers are doing as poets and as writers and what great writers imports have done before. One of the examples i point to in the classroom is we wear the mask which is published in 1896, a six, collection of poems called the lyrics of the lowly. Dunbar is so important for this discussion for a lot of ways, i dont want to get too deep into. But there is a huge conflict in his career around writing standard english versus writing in the black the negative. We wear the mask is a poem that does both. That that promise speaking to all of those deep issues that black folks are dealing with about hierarchal structures come about having to it where mask and the grams of life in the base of white violence a white supremacy. This is 1896. 1996 of the blue jays and the scores, the most, the most successful album with over 1500 copies sold. In that song you have the fujis, lauren hill, rapping about difference if you situations where they have to wear the mask. So that kind of poetic continuity between black literature in rap music, for me i think its its valuable. Its also boring to understand how you use those things as teaching tools. So im invested in that as a scholar even though i want those forms, black literature and black writing, hiphop and rap music to be a thomas, i also believe there linked as well. So i come at this from the perspective of social linguistic anthropologist and when you are given those, one of the things that you look at is the relationship between languages, and language language families. This whole idea of where does this language come from and what are the influences of different languages, you immediately, especially if you have my interest, at the time in particular it has to say okay lets do slavery, thats like slavery and caribbean, lets, lets look at what happened in africa, lets look like happened in the south. Whats plantation slavery like . At a build up the communities. What do we see absolutely that came from the african continent that is still there versus all of the different groups, especially out of europe, irish in particular who were indentured at a particular point of slaves. People like like the scots who and up in overseers. It is the history through language. Its like what does language contacts mean . It means death, it means someone is trying to take over and destroy you, bury you, pull you under, so when you think about that and the first time you hear someone say word, youre like oh im going over there. And what you realize was that it is the diaspora. It is is like we are all, different stories, what country are you from, you can i can name one but im not going to my thing even though i could. But i have a family that doesnt want you to know everything. So its just like hey, thats part of the experience. When he then look at what is happening, what has happened historically throughout the development, what you see is the continuation of that. You see Everything Else that is clouding things, some of it is really fun too by the way. You see this clear kind of the drum remains. Its like, this is who we are, this is what were figuring out. And what we we are figuring out, what were doing in terms of the creativity, the narrative, the getting the getting at what has happened, and its hard as it is and as beautiful as it is and as painful as it is, its about us. Because it is about us and what we have been through, its, its about everybody. That is what everybody gets. Throughout the world, there like thats our drum, wheres yours. Lets all get this together so i think this notion of diaspora, from my perspective especially from a discipline is the norm. Its like yes i study African American english but i understood it because i looked at discourse and interactions in some african languages. Because i understood the development of, i could not have understood what was happening here if i did not understand what happen there, it was was all in the mix. Thank you. Young bucks on the road like car wax, black millions can be in any habitat. I could pin an apple or better at making diggers change the main as a matter fact. Start with that black on black, its colors on the pope come years in the volts, born of revoke, they made it plain with your hope. Free towns, rebound, i aint gone but im close. Ill be doing the most. For me, this is a deep conversation areas as he heard in the rhyme i was born in zimbabwe, you you know what im saying zimbabwe, born to revolt. My parents are africanamerican and i grew up in philly. So i had an interesting, africas but a special place to me, the continent of course. I grew up in an afro central household in philly so its like, i mean you you have a lot of different influences you know what im saying. You know, one of the things thats interesting to me, i always felt like some kind of bridge or connective tissue because my friends, the the way they thought about africa you know when the way that africa was portrayed and then what i had known about it, what i had seen, you, you know i had been to a lot of countries i was talking to my over driver in i been to about 20 african countries so you know i always feel really connected to the motherland. What i learned about africa like literally going to africa, and that being his revelation in terms of hiphop so going to africa, seeing the zulu nation and coming back and renaming his organization, write the zulu nation and what i learned about the etymology and the word hit for example, etymology etymology of the word hit is hippie, it means to open ones eyes and see, its a term of enlightenment. And the etymology of hop is to springboard into action so hiphop is enlightened action. Its an enlightened movement. So those are the things that have inspired me, different different terms of language and linguistics. Ive always known that hiphop had like the dopes poetry. It was interesting was interesting when i went to college, i went to Lafayette College [inaudible] but now im in hd see you folks. I dont even engage in those environments. [laughter] but you know, the thing about it is the first time i really study i got traditional, classical, contemporary poetry. At first i was like okay this is going to get better, its going to be like im gonna you know its gotta be something here, you have all these books, all the museums, im watching the movie and waiting for it and like the stuff doesnt happen, so that moment in the whole time im think in yo, can all these was that we are reading like lyrically though, not just on the tip of like if we really break down double triple the puns, the word play, its a different level. I really started to appreciate like what we do. And its so underappreciated, even though its underappreciated on the level were talking about. When you talking about the genius, the brilliance of the language in the lyrics and whats really going on. We really havent even studied it yet, i mean its so because we produce so much and im saying we in terms of hiphop has produced so much that their cats that have not been looked at yet. You know what i mean . I mean, its its unbelievable the level is on in terms of language and how the level of sophistication that it is operating on. And you have to spit it. Its like, what i was in college and i was studying all these great poets and im like, first while im not im not even moved by what im reading but on top of that, theyre not even spitting it. I go to the event and they tell me its the greatest poet, whatever, go to the event, sure quack, its so wack like the writing, and so i really started to like have so much more love for hiphop. Like jo, sweep and read its underappreciated. And one other thing, this is also what inspires me about hiphop, i told you about how poly it it came and got me right, so like that hiphop. I never experienced more love then hiphop. I never experience more, like even doctor dyson, the best moment we ever had was we had free styling, me and him went somewhere that day that it would take me 1000 conversations to be able to get there with you where we could be that free around each other, you know what im saying . What im talking about in terms of love is the, you know know the sense of having a comrade, im in academia too, i guess and im in literature and all the stuff, literary people dont hit you up and want to work with you. They dont want to hang out with you. They dont want to have a cycle with you and spark it up with you, that that is not really in the culture of academia and literature. In hiphop, if youre dope in your doping you work together. You reach out to people, you collaborate. Obviously theres beef and not everybodys but in general the collaboration is like every day were collaborated with people. Every day theres new people coming in and out of the studio with ideas. Its just a lot of synergy. Yeah, its a very lovely experience. The more i go in in terms of the music, the harder, to be honest with you and this is the first time im really explaining it because ive been writing so much music into it so much music that it becomes harder to write like, the thing that so beautiful about hiphop is when i say things like shake in the block, and its better to run. Like if i started spit in a wrap, its like i dont have to explain myself. You know what im saying. If i say runaway slave, running from the grave man, ran from being safe, can i get can i get in a man. I was wondering why your running, im not run on jason sent, uptown philly whether iuppercaseletter, theyre making a lot, theyre shaken the block, they play with fire because is it better to burn then right. Ive been running my whole life so like my skin the color of midnight, so when i hold a pen that my brothers are kinda like, ill be up all night, were raisin and praise and in rocks in the system, 80s baby, shout out to mama, shut out to his and bobwhite. Anyway, if i do that its like you guys can listen, you guys can understand, and if you dont understand, you can go in your own time and listen. When i read an essay or Something Like that, im begetting more more to file, whom i write this for . Its kind of frustrating like the way hiphop is set up is different because you have independent labels and independent structure that is really viable. But in publishing its a little bit different. Its like, you know you want to work with publishers and want to get yourself out there but at the same time i want to communicated in a way that i want to communicate it. Or the way that it is in my head and i feel hiphop is to blame my expression. I really dont have to think about well if they understand that i got explain what hiphop is, you know it a writing this piece about hiphop now and its like i feel like i have to explain what hiphop is. Because of who is going to be reading it. You know what im saying, because thats the thing. Its like, you know, so anyway that was all over the place. Ive so many thoughts [applause]. We have not even started to talk about the novelist and the writers who are coming out a hiphops and i personally do not here with us today. They are writers like yourself who are hiphop generational folks and we are seeing that adam is another great one, there definitely some great writers coming out of the hiphop generation, fiction and fiction and nonfiction were doing incredible work. Absolutely. So i think this is a really good point to come i know that you folks want to talk to these guys i think this is a great point to go to q a. Before we do that i want to give some love to the memory of probably one of the best lyricist in the strongest and sees to ever do it. My beloved [applause]. I think that what had earlier was a wonderful synergy of really true connections with the artist were writing about. So yeah, i could write about tribes and i did many time, i could write about fights but i also listen listen to it when im writing, but mild stuff and so i think it is really largely about this community and so its very individualistic. So questions, dont be shy. Come up to the mic and its crazy because hiphop seems so individualistic but its not. And then academia seems so communal and its not. [laughter] hello. I want want to say thank you to everybody who is up there. I appreciate all of the knowledge ive done so far. So my question is, we are here talking about hiphop and the impact on the culture and i was taking notes on something that was said earlier, he was saying that the tip of that iceberg a lot of types is misogynistic but under that is when you get the art, its when you get the things that you can teach. So i came out here from sacramento just for the conference. Wild. [applause]. So i came out here and i was invited by doctor green because i was telling her that i was working on writing my first book, im a rapper, im a pull it but one of the things i was struggling with was even as a rapper and im sure that as a rapper like when i write things that are conscious i know before i put it out that people my age, most people my age are not quick to listen to it because it is something that is conscious or whatever. When i started writing my book, you know its the same thought, most of the people my age do not even read books. So last night i was having a conversation with somebody who tell me that if you are writing a book you will target an audience the Younger Generation that are Like Middle School and down, high school and down, and thats cool and i want that, but but at the same time i guess my question is what you do, or how do you, or what is your opinion on targeting like my age group knowing that like i want to save the people who are my age in my community but i know that they do not read, they dont listen. They dont read yet. You know it im saying. What happened like when i make kids that dont like to read, i used to hate to read. If you made a kid who doesnt like to read they havent been exposed to the right but, you know what im saying. Theres a lot of bs that they give you in the schools. So a lot of times your opinion everything is based on, you know the thing is man, i understand where youre coming from. I wanted to answer question just because theyre listening and their reading. Way more than you think. Dont make that assumption that your peers are not listening to you, that you, that your peers are to listen to music. Make your music hot, thats the first thing. A statically. Yes, two minute conscious artists just think being conscious is enough, its not. You have to make music. What producers are you working with . Whos mastering . Whos mixing . Music element is important. So is the writing. Just because you have something to say you have to figure out how to say it in a way thats beautiful or poetic, or powerful, whatever it is so master the craft is important. I think it is a false assumption to assume that they wont listen. I think think lauren hill, when she came out with miseducation, i mean it was like what happens when you drop contacts like that, you change the course of where we go. Note im saying . [laughter] thank you. Can i add to this. I agree with what he saying about about not making assumptions that people give us about our community that arent actually true. I think 11 of the challenges with young people in terms of reading is that we do not provide enough opportunities to read things that make sense, that matter and are important to them. Number two theres not enough opportunities to discuss with their reading. So one of the great things about writing good literature is being able to talk about it with other folks and been able to share that experience. We have great writers doing it. Theres an incredible novel by tj holder called shadow shaper. I think all the young people need to revisit the protagonist, young woman woman who is a character who was an incredible depiction of new york city. What i realize when i was reading is im wondering, are we getting this into the curriculum of young people . This should be read all over new york city. Its about new york, right. But to come i, i realize that even those for reading, is there any lace with them to go to talk about it. The way you get people excited about literature is situated in a discourse community, anybody whos part of a reading club, book club, anyone in the classroom, anybody appeared know that whats exciting about literature is being able to talk about it. Not only do we not always have the right stuff, were were not providing the right opportunities to engage. So, im going to Say Something quickly but im going to ask people to keep their questions shorts because there are quite a few people and our panelists need to answer. I just wanted to say to the next untrained young man whos asking the question is dont get caught up an audience and genre. One of the things that i know about him is an adult novelist for a long time. Young adults is a really violent genre. Hello. What was the best part in researching about literature for you guys . Im sorry to mac. Researching. Im very interested myself. So fascinating for you guys, since you guys have been in the field longer. There are so many things that were exciting to me about it. The 1st piece was the linguistic piece. What 1st excited me was working in the world of social linguistics, the way the black people speak is an incredible phenomenon. When i 1st started to read black literature as a graduate student, there is no amazing complicated way people are trying to represent black history. All these racist people trying to indicate a certain kind of intelligence and then the smart folks trying to use how black people speak to show the incredible intelligence of it. So there is literally a war going on beneath the surface overrepresentation of black folks through black language. That made me realize that hiphop is the next frontier of that battle, that hiphop , the way that i was growing up, rap music and hiphop was my entire world in terms of black expression in my own identity. I was drawn to the kind of battles that were going on over black intelligence through black language in both literature and hiphop, and these things are going on beneath the surface, not readily accessible unless you are nerd like me spending a lot of time studying morphology and how black speech is represented on page or linguistic features. It was exciting to me because i realized that the stakes were so high for those battles that were going on. You know, a number of things associated with language in particular, i love the different styles, and a people use long vowels you know they are probably from the south or la. They captured regions, all aspects of identity and are arguing various important kinds of issues and ideas that is absolutely off the hook. When you really look at it it is like, we are good. Next question . I did wanted to Say Something real quick. But, you know, to me it was the word john that did it for me. The conversation could be like, i was at the job with the young john down the street and the boy had a john ona john on them. Its about to be on in that john. You can have a conversation like that. When i started to realize that was connected to the fact that black people came here to america from all different countries, in nigeria they speak over 400 languages. We came to america speaking all these languages. How do you survive in america when the same person that is teaching you language is the same expletive they got you in chains. You have to freak the language. You have to learn how to freak it. When somebody say they escaped the plantation and they say thats a bad negative. But everyone else know, we all know what that means. That would got me hyped and inspired. You are saying that you had difficulty. As the 1st thing. I never used to write in english as much. So now i am an english major i felt nobody would understand me. Thats all i did. But i sort of connected. But now i find myself not writing poetry because of something you how to write in standard english. That is a great question. And i just want to clarify. Things like that. Very different energy. That is what messes with me. People, one of my heroes. The more you do it, continue it, continue to write poetry it is going to continue to be hard. Doing both, the same day sometimes. Continue to do it. The more you do it it will become, i remember those struggles and for me now sometimes i write a rap and have to work on film or Something Like that, and now i can move if no space is a lot more fluidly. Continue to do it and then eventually it becomes more easy. Can i Say Something quickly . One of the things that, sometimes you want to write something in the form their asking you to write it in, you cant speak that way. I just sell perform. If i need to put upon the middle of an essay, couple of bars a poetry come i will do that and then i can stand behind it because i believe in the work. Use the form that makes the most sense to you and teacher reader to open themselves up to Something Else. Great. Thats great. Writing and bars is not easier than writing an essay form. Outthink one form is easier than the other. If you want to be a good writer no matter what format is talking about you have to write. Writers write. The summer writer that means every day when i get up thats what i need to see and how you get better. The shortcuts comeau are talking about writing in different forms and genres and different expectations, but writers write, and writing is hard. It takes a lot of time, energy, patients, love, practice, and that is how you become a good writer. Next question. Good evening. Good afternoon. I represent acronym, delivering information righteously teaching and building active thoughts. I stand behind every letter in that acronym, many am doing everything involved with that. What im trying to five what im finding out, almondim educating children, working in schools in brooklyn, music programs. What im finding out is that the Young Children they are empowering the very people that are trying to destroy them. So it is becoming it is very difficult to try to teach them the right way to do something women have seen the wrong way. So my question is, specifically to mk because im trying to get to where your credential levels are right now. My answer to this is to take these artists a war comeau we have to call them to task. Being held as heroes in our committee we can allow them to hold this position. 0200 real quick. This is a thing they get stuck in the kids head. That means youre not thinking about your actions. Were going to have to stop. I hear you, brother. I actually have a different a different opinion about where we are right now and hiphop. I think we are experiencing a resurrection of hiphop. The principles, the kind of hiphop that people in this room grew up on is returned. In a very strong and powerful way. The young people, of course, youre always going to have various influences, but what im seeing in hiphop right now is a return to lyricism. So many real and sees right now. Thats one thing. I returned to consciousness. So whether its a protest song especially with the young people. I cant. At least a hundred new rappers that are young, lyrical, conscious, and bring a whole new energy. I dont believe going to war with the people, i dont think thats a good idea for me. The idea is to praise the people and celebrate the people its not about attacking people. He said brooklyn. There are a bunch of emcees in brooklyn who just dont know about it. You have to expose it. Lets expose them. Let them make the decision. After they hear there going to make the right choice. I remember i was writing the other day and this is a crazy moment. I was really wiling out. I was really, really wiling out. Yesterday i was driving in my friend and never heard this particular song and i search remember how this particular song began to change you i was in my conscience. It was a dead prez song and i think i tweeted at that moment that i love dead prez as soon as i was exposed to them i was changed. As soon as i heard be healthy and nine african, i wasnt the same anymore. I could go on with a lot of examples. My suggestion is exposure. You also are dealing with the technology problem. You need to teach them how to be more literate in the media they are consuming because there going to be on their phones. Youre not going to stop that. We have to give them tools. Full disclosure, we have nine minutes and 29 seconds. We have a lot of brilliance appear. Respect the mic. So lets go. Lets try and get through. Very quickly, im another person who advocates. There are black phds all over this country that have nothing to do with hiphop. She is very modest, but she deserves respect, what she has done for black academia. [applause] but i have a question, black woman writers, black woman as poets and as emcees. We were talking recently about lauren hill and how it was inconceivable when miseducation came out that i could look forward to today and they be so few successful women emcees. I am interested in your thoughts on what hiphop has done for the spoken Word Movement and for white people in the spoken Word Movement and where that leaves black women get so many gifted black women cant get supported perform within the spoken Word Movement that dont get the kind of attention and respect. How do we bring more into respectability or at least attention of hiphop culture . I wish that people would support the women emcees were doing incredible work right now. There are womenthere are women who are doing great work, making records, make music videos, but people dont support them. And what, i mean, by support is pay for the music. That is the 1st step honestly, can we support some of these incredible women rappers. There are a lot of spoken word poets. For me that is a different scene, but in terms of hiphop their incredible young women making critical music and its not all about leveraging asexuality to make money, some are making conscious music, some are making everyday music, but they dont get the same kind of support. It is a making sure my students know and about me personally supporting those artists. Every time we have a conversation about whether women are, take away from that is go out and support women who are literally dedicating their lives not making a lot of money to make incredible music. Again, rhapsody has made i dont know how many albums of videos. We need to support the women that are there. I would make one proposition. We should propose we stop using the word conscious rap it does a disservice to the complexity and nuance of poetry but in addition it is, like combat for marketing and selling music. No one wants to buy conscious rap album. Just want to buy an album. Calling it that puts it in a box come people are already tuned out. I just want to quickly say, there is no excuse for it. I blame almost all the audit the men in hiphop are not doing anything to change this. Yeah, rhapsody is great. He put her out there. How many artists are doing things and addressing it directly . They are just moaning and taking advantage. They are benefiting from all this and can change it. We need to put more pressure on them to do that. Am going to ask everyone to say your question at the mic. Im going to end with you because i know you have a comment and ill ask our panelists to take one question and respond. And only one panelist will respond. Thank you. Okay. I have a question about the bridge between the literary academia aspect and the hiphop aspect. I just finished my senior thesis on hiphop, and on the only black person my department. Woe. My submitted my original thesis was on how hiphop has changed over time. And as i had to meet with my visor i felt myself having to explain so much. It became more about hiphop history as opposed to what i originally wanted. I got in a anyway, but i feel like the always in the priding yourself into the white gays, and i dont know what to do about that. See your question is what to do about doing the work you want to do and having to negotiate a navigate . Okay. Thank you. Next question. Ii would like to thank the panelists were there insight. This question is particularly for mk asante. Im a High School English teacher. My goal is to blur the lines between the classroom in the community. I found your book and fellow love with it and brought it in the classroom, and my students follow up with it, and i would like to invite you to a classroom to speak to our students because i think they would get so much out of it. Anytime. Yes . Lets do it. Next question. I appreciate that. Not really question. More so a comment. A brief comment. A brief comment. Have a copy of your book. I would like to thank you for sharing your story. Thank you. One love. Short comment. Thank you for being here today. First, a tribe called quest and nods. Look back on the old times with nostalgia, 94, that year being the year, there is a lot of stuff that wasnt so great as well. People think about bragging rap, but that stuff existed in the early days of hiphop. It always was there. I am curious about how it has been pushed to the forefront when you have this sort of mcdonalds making of rap artists, pushed out to make a hot song and then get tossed out. I think it is a modernization of hiphop that was always there, consumable rap. I am wondering what he had to say about how became part of the forefront, what was pushed out to the masses. Thank you. School cool. Being a child of hiphop i am cfos younger brother. I was just with him in baltimore. Yeah. [applause] well, pretty much in the hiphop culture there is a lot of comparison going on. People of all the generations like to compare what is going on today with what we were raised on, the 90s compared to now. Now people will say that the music being produced now is very emasculated to the black man, but also, you know, we look at 90 zip up it seems as if it pushes the message of black on black violence. Now, when we say in reference to these particular comparisons we always push violence on their people, gangster rap and all of this. Why does that make that error better than the sarah . And what ii want to no is, what are your thoughts on the direction of hiphop because if we are talking about a reemergence of that and i dont think that is evolution. I dont think that is going forward. I think that is regressing. So if you could give your thoughts on that, i would appreciate it. Thank you. Very briefly. They are in the conversation about writing and about warring against other hiphop artists and so on, i just think that it behooves us to think about the fact that writing is bleeding. Writing is fighting. I am writing for to show you what we are fighting. And so i would hope that we would take athe genre seriously. Hiphop has its own poetics, conventions, literary articulations. Writing well as a reward of its own as well. I stayed up tonights ago. I am a grown professor. Had to speak somewhere. Because i had to get the work done. Does not stop with being a student. I stood up from 12 00 oclock until 9 00 oclock in the morning, felt a sense of satisfaction and then took a plane here. It is not as sexy as shooting a jump shot or spitting on wax, but the incredible integrity of form and adherence to a sense of intelligence that it takes to be get at that knowing that only 100hundred years after him deadly appreciation for lessons register andin such a fashion that someone will see the work i put into that equaled the greatest aesthetic effort of our greatest artists and poets and musicians and the like, so i am making an anachronistic argument for a certain kind of literacy that take a hell of a lot of work to do, and then will lament mk asante said is so important here, im messing up his name, the argument about why trap queens the greatest loci of our generation. Hello. And he deconstructs words and begins to talk about the relationship between labor and love. Im against fundamentalists. Ifundamentalists. I dont care who you are. Hiphop fundamentalists for me because the reality is break is a genius. Its notits not drake cant be a genius because someone else is a genius. Jayz is, so is most deaf, mk asante, john morgan, respect the incredible craft. What makes me sad is that mk asante has not been exposed to a lot of cipher that exists in Academic Circles because we too have been marginalized and we to reach out to others. This should is dope. Look at the sentences in the paragraphs. All the crap that he is getting because he is not james baldwin, thank god he is who he is because nobody can do what baldwin did, but baldwin wasnt writing essays about reparation in the atlantic that could change the political constitution of the rhetoric and dialogue. I am a writer unapologetic. If you can can understand that the 1st time, mayor, read it again. I think we call that dropping the mic. [laughter] [applause] am going to take one answer for followup comment, closing comment. For real. And on that note. I mean, you want us to answer the question . Yes. Or if youre not going to do that. Of course you do. The 1st one, which is about doing hiphop work within the context which is really important. An industry that is saturated and its very tricky terrain cannot be a translator when youre writing about black culture and the people are viewing or peer reviewing our white folks. But i think there are limitations to that in terms of the profession depending upon how far you will go as a scholar which is to say that there is always a time when you are an apprentice in the academy when you have to do there should, wherever that is. They are they are not going to ever do your stuff. And it is sad that it is this way. But you master their terrain which create some space for you then master the things the youre interested in. First stepped in the hallowed halls of the university of pennsylvania they literally laughed at me. Like literally laughed. So i think again, you can say forget that come i dont want to have anything to do with that. Im going deal handtohand. If you are going to be in their institutions, do their stuff, and it is good for you master their stuff because it will help you to understand what keeps us out of positions. And we need to learn that because we need to revolutionize some of these institutions. Knowing some of the stuff will be helpful for that. [applause] we are supposed to respond to different questions. I should have spoken earlier. But i do want to Say Something about the 90s and hiphop. I mean, as the director of hiphop archive and that creates collection we are doing in the low Music Library is going to house 200 classic albums described as classic by producers. It is all producers. And we know will be more than 200. But one of the things that you realize because we are really building, really looking at everything about culturally, musically, etc. , that happens around these particular albums. What you realize as we go through, if you look at Something Like the 90s the 1st of all, how powerful it is that these albums, before albums turn out to be lower in theory, ill medic, miseducation, and the instant classic, to pemba butterfly. And so if you look at something one of the things were doing is going to the history of what was happening when the album came out. We also are doing what was happening in the black world when the samples came out. So we are doing it. We are using hiphop culture is a place to create a world , education, life, love, everything conceivable. Well, clearly the 90s was the height and the growth of gangsta rap. And you also have sidebyside all these other conscious things going on. From our analysis and i think the write up on miseducation was great. Miseducation came out and everyone said comeau we can make money doing this, we can do all of that. The mix of everything in that album. Yes. A number of artists had done some things, but the commercial side of it was like, bam, we can do it. One of the things we realize now is people who make money on the men. What is going on . What is happening . Because it is us. Somewhere it is us. And i think that we have to think about that. Get nostalgic. I love the 90s. I liked it. But the the whole thing is like we really need to keep moving. I appreciate what was said. Look, you dont do you want just one . And you dont want to be able to talk . No, said this. The College Graduate level. Hilarious. Beautiful loving things questioning things, challenging things, that is what we are going after. That is the hiphop i know and understand. As robert kelly said, we cant take the fun out of it. I want to just say really quickly, and i think this addresses the question, the moment, you look at the incredible level of acceptance and the incredible level of critique and so there is a way that when female artists make a statement that is politicized, trying to find another word for conscience. Out of the realm of the shooter commercialization. The gendered way that female artists come out and are critiqued. And we cant act like nikki manoj doesnt exist. She is an incredible mc. She exists and she is out there for people to touch into mold