We hone youre enjoying the festival and we definitely it invite you to become a friends of the festival today by texting, friend to 520214 book as shown on the sign right over here in the front of the room or visit the friend of the festival booth on the mall your guess makes difference in keeping festival programming tree of chrnlg and supporting critical literacy programs in the community. Out of respect for it the authors and fellow audience members please turn off your cell phone at this moment and now im o going to introduce our authors here with us today so joe, joe is a veteran political journalist hes a founder tore in chief of the memo and editor of large fund of the nation sthiewt. His article have prepared anywhere you host probably ever read them. And hes notably covered every american president ial election since 1980. Hes author of man of the world the future endeavors of bill clinton that is what well be talking about today also father of nineyearold twins who are watching this live right now. So a little nod to them. Keep the questions clean. Exactly. J and he lives in new york city. Lisa, lisa napoli is author of ray and joan who made the mcdonalds fortune and woman who gave it all away. In review a dual biography of the man who made mcdonalds ubiquitous and two decades of had her life becoming one of the most generous philanthropist in American History so she actually had intended originally to write a biography solely of joan but you cant tell the story without of ray and radio which chronicled her time in and around the time invited to help start a Radio Station at the dawn of democratic rule there. She grew up in brooklyn but is los angeles transparent currently lives there downtown and runs a volunteer cooking club on skid row. Finally we have sam, his memoir for the love of money which established in july. Sorry of last year. Hes the cofounder and ceo of table a fore profit social enterprise that selling fresh, healthy affordable meals affordable for all and executive director of los angeles nonprofit that works in intersection of poverty and obesity. But prior to becoming social entrepreneur he was a senior trader for one of the biggest henl funds on wall street also on the verge of being at the very top and offered annual bonus of 4 million and grew angry that it was not enough and realized that he had to walk away from this obsessive pursuit from money. [laughter] lovely as he is he realized that culture of sexism and crude achievement of wall street where the soul measure of someones worth was their wealth was not for him and walked away from it all. Welcome to them. Were so excited to have them. [applause] so i thought wed start kind of with an opening question that might allow you all insight into what their books are about. If you havent had a chance to pick them up you can do so riect after this. But id love to start off is there a moment thatting brought you kind of incredible clarity around where your book was going right was there an interview or something that was like a moment where all of a sudden you like saw your way through the fog or for sam for you actually in the moment . Where you realized kind of what was going to be very important looking back and telling the story. I, i can start. So i was in 08, 09 on wall street for stive years and you know crash was happening, obviously, a crazy time on wall street, and women builders going down and bare sterns, and you know the whole world was shaking. Our hedge fund was in a decent position so we werent losing money but it was a scary time for everybody and around me was terrified and i had been going through this process starting to question a lot about what i was doing and where i was sort of standing many the world. And the crash really exasperated that so i remember being in a meeting with my billion mare who was one of the smartest guys yadz ever mets and it was we were in several other traders in of the room and we were talking about the Hedge Fund Regulations that were being proposed by congress, and everybody in the room thought they were a terrible idea. But i was starting to think that may made sense. So i said so and i said you know, wouldnt this be better for the system as a whole and it was this terrible moment [applause] it was like the music has been turned off my boss leaned across the table and shot me this withering glare saying sam, i dont have the brain capacity to think about the system as a whole. I can only think about what is good for us in our business. And you know, candidly it wasnt so much. I did judge him but i recognized him and i recognize myself in him and saw that for me you know, my whole life you know my book is really about ambition and my relationship with with my dads. But my whole life had been about, you know, clawing to the top and getting this money and getting this prestige and getting this business card. And i think in that moment i sort of came to understand that there was something off about that. That i also didnt want that. For the first time that sort ambition seemed to be no longer worth it. Id say for me, i had read mcdonalds wasnt helping me with this book nor was joan crocks family, and most of rays family wasnt helping me at that point so i was left to my own devices and i find a tiny old inch newspapers 1971 saying that joan had filed for divorce from ray. They didnt even name her. They said that wife of the mcdonalds ceo has filed for divorce. Citing violent, ungovernmentable temper and joan hadnt married ray until 69 a long affair on and and other spouses involved before they finally married so i was curious to find out more about about this. And i had had to call the cook county courthouse to get the divorce records. And it was a quite a trial to do that. Took a while finally papers arrived after i plunged down necessary cash for copying and i sat on the floor of our home office in downtown l. A. , graciously reading these legal papers from many years ago, and i found out the details of the divorce from joan that joan was alleging from against ray. And here, hearing it, with reading it in my mind and hearing it and imagining her going through this because it was quite a painful situation. I realized i known that joan had started an alcohol charity with rays money when she wasnt able to get ray help and that was interest to go. But knowing that moment on the floor in my office, that the depth of their despair, and their problem really made me realize i had to keep going and tell her story how she transcend that was so incredible and graceful. So i took eight years or maybe more to write my book. It began when i went to africa with bill clinton to write a profile of him for esquire magazine 2005 and one of the things that thatted there on that trip was i got to see the beginning of the aids, Hiv Aids Program that head started which was to bring medicine to to people suffering from aids in africa and elsewhere in the world where it was thought that it was unaffordable to provide them with drugs. And basically that was western world says going to let tens of million manies die. Clinton said no he and Nelson Mandela and he started this this Little Program that started out small in africa. And this was inned it been underway for a couple of years we went to the island of sudan zanzabar but a lot suffering from aids and they were hissen because it is it was a muslim country, and there was a lot of stigma attached to it then. And i met some families there getting relief and medicine and other support from clintons organization, and including some small children who were there with their parents or their mothers. Eight years later, we went back to zanzaba in 2013 i went back with clinton, and we went to the same organization that had brought these patients to Clintons Group in the first place, the organization of families with hiv or aids who had banded together basically to protect themselves against the rest of society. It had grown respected out in the open and had hundreds of members, they were all getting medication, and other support. And there was a young man there, a teenager i guess who had had a sign that he held up when clinton came and it had a picture of a little child on it and that was him. And i had met that boy eight years earlier when he was a young child, little child who had hiv, and probably would have died along with his mother and they were both alive and he came up to clinton and i saw clinton greet him and begin to weep and thats when i knew that that was the that was the core of the book. It didnt help me shape the book but i knew this was what was essential to this story of that people i think department know about what he had done and what it was about. So thanks. Im curious now all of these books are about at the core about kind of this tension of giving of big wealth and kind of these big contributions to society whether those are kind of through charisma is case of bill clinton. Or you know billions of dollars in the case of joan croc and im curious from all of you reading all of your books different ways that each persons personality is used to leverage fill ant fill philanthropy used to move forward with but as you were researching books or being with them or being the the person were talking about kind of behaviors that changed for, for these you all as individual or focus point as individual. How did they change overtime and how did giving actually make them different . Sure. For joan it was when ray died in 1984 that her philanthropy really took off. She had started this alcoholism Education Charity operation quirk before with with that. When he passed away in 84 and she pounds herself 55 years old one of the richest women in the world with about half a billion dollars, you know, thats pretty awesome and awe inspiring and it was the moment that a gunman went into mcdonalds not far from where joan was living at that time, and shot up the place. It was the worst mass shooting in American History at the time and joan was at this moment where she was in a relatively new widow. She had the opportunity to assert her authority at mcdonalds as a largest single individual shareholder. Which she never did. And she was just sort of coming into her own and she responded to this terrible tragedy in a mcdonalds by calling into this conference in the very next day announcing that she was starting a victims fund with her own money and almost challenging mcdonalds to participate too. So that kind of moment over time ting that gave her a taste of how incredible it was that she had this money and ability to do something magnificent with it. And over time she just basically closed down her foundation and decided that she wanted to check book giving when she met something doing Something Interesting she defied who most say with film fill angt i she wanted to respond and that to me so fascinating that she wasnt conventional but very is reactive. Sometimes strategic too. And that definitely at all began from 1984 on. So with clinton, i think that changes were kind of subtle, i mean, he, you know, there were ways in which philanthropy in the way he did it was similar to being a politician so he didnt have to change that much. When he started the aids program, he got on the phone to the other friends of his who were still heads of state. So the, you know ireland and Prime Minister of canada said how much are you boy in for basically im going to do this, and you know, i need money and they gave him ten of millions of dollars to buy these drugs. So there were similarities and similarly you know raising money from other kinds of individuals, i mean, as a politician, he had raised a lot of money by means that were admirable and less so. And in the world of running and operating charity not a foundation, but operating charity trying to bring money in youre raising money from wealthy individuals much the way people did in politics. Until sanders kind of changed the game a built. But so the changes were subtle but thrfsz one that i observed which was that when he was president , he supported patents on pharmaceutical drugs. U. S. Companies a enothers in europe wanted to keep strict patent and these made it very hard for genetic aids medication to be produced and al gore had gotten in trouble when he was running for president because the u. S. Government under clinton and gore had he protected the patent in International Forum from being broken so that more of these drugs could be o produced cheaper. He completely changed his position when he got out of office he switched to the other side got into a big fight with pharmaceutical companies and said to mac the generics and they did, and thats it broke strangle hold of the Generic Company led to many more people being able to get aids drugs so in that way, you know he was noticeably liberate ared not being in office anymore. Not having to do what people expected u. S. Administration to do to protect American Patents not anymore because he had gotten up on a stage with Nelson Mandela and said were going to change this and they did. So i, you know, i guess my answer to this question, i want to like talk about this idea of giving and this sort of standard or old way that sort of philanthropy has worked at least this this country where its like ray croc and croc family where you spend your life accumulating money through a business pursuit and then at the some point whether 50s ore 60s at the ends of the year you stop accumulating and pivot and start giving that money away and a i think the long and short of that is that is sort of not working and theres a few reasons for that. First of all this internal issue of you know you build up a lot of sort of sensibilities and skill and Defense Mechanisms as sort of accumulating that wealth and also distance from i think folks who are living in poverty or needs a structural help. So that, that is hard in general. I think the second thing is that the truth of the matter is that businesses are just profoundly Stronger Economic vehicles than nonprofits can ever be. So if you think about a business with, you raise money but then you start this business that sort of grow organically and has power over time a nonprofit is quite the opposite of that. You have to raise money every single year, 100 of your revenue. You basically cant hire sort of skilled people or really pay them much for a long period of time because donors dont like you to pay a lot of high salaries to those folks theres no equity to insent vise people like theres in silicon valley. And so you basically have this structure where businesses are creating all of this check power and wealth and then nonprofits are sort of setting up how to fix problem that happen in the society which are caused by business and some of which arent. But they have kind of like major problems and nonprofits because they are under resource and dont have that kind of structural power cant really fix those problems but kind of under resource and less powerful than those businesses so all of this is to say like for me ive been thinking about this. And about this idea of like, you know, so far theres been this sort of like idea where you either have to, you know, make a lot of money and set out to be successful and thats what youre doing. Or you have to sort of issue all of that and go work for the pace corps. And not make money and live in hot bisquely and theres something about that i think that leads to sort of propounds first of all unhappiness on both sides i think that humans are very sort of complicated complex people with sort of multitudeness motivations. Some of which are deeply selfinterested some of which about common good and bringing together society and community together. And in standards structure of giving those two things are split so you have a lot of businesspeople that really like their money. And really care about their companies and by the way are doing a tremendous amount of good in the world by paying a lot of people and making jobs and positive changes through their businesses but a lot of time those same folks feel in my opinion are least in my experience, very hollow and something is missing and then you have people who are doing goods in the world and feel satisfied by that work but live in the crummy apartment and really wish they have more money and could invest in all of these things sort of business folks have. So thats just all a long way of saying that yods think this social Enterprise Movement basically a movement about socially conscience businesses and organizations that can harness this economic power of business with a philanthropic mind set all that is necessary so no matter how sort of smart it gets or u how democratic or o coordinated those sort ofs orings in my opinion sort of are going to have a tough time sort of fixing huge problems. Lets stick with that theme of i think underlying that is just a huge idea of breaking rules and in terms of how peel are giving now so that is probably on the one side of the spectrum of what that looks like with creating social enterprise and creating them but certainly joan if we think about how she was giving so one of the stories that lisa tells in the book is when joan was like in the midst of giving everything away, ray had purchased the San Diego Padres at one point, and she decided she was going to give the San Diego Padres rather than selling it been in a bunch of deals of people she didnt think were good humans at the end of the day. She had tried to give the San Diego Padres to this city of san diego. Right, and, of course, like the Major League Baseball didnt approve the transaction because it would have meant that all of their financials became more or less public. And so i think that thats a very different way to think about giving and also if we think about bill clinton right he was essentially using the trope of being a politician to carry it forward and become a kind of different type of fill fill and talking about that role when you were writing books. Thats exactly what clinton thought when he built Clinton Global Initiative that was the theme of that was he had gone to World Economic form for several years and given speech there is. And notice that they talked a lot about how to fixes problem it is in the world and then they didnt do anything. And so the idea of Clinton Global Initiative was they would have a campus. He would be be able to convene corporate, World Leaders people prominent come together because he was clinton, and then he would make them do something. And you could not come to cgi unless you committed to do something afterwards, and after, you know, it went on for 14 years and finally closed it down mostly last year because they anticipated a different kind of election than we ended up having. [laughter] and but by the end what it had published that a lot of good things came out of it. The most successful projects were the ones that put together a corporation where people wanted to do something positive with their wealth, their skills, their market access, their supply chains. All of that with a nonprofit that had an idea, you know, of problem they were trying to solve. When those things were put together they were very effective in dealing with all kinds of things from providing clean water to, you know, billions of gallons of clean water many, many problems. And so the social enterprise was one of the ideas motivating Clinton Global Initiative and used a big support of that. Still, thats he sees that as one of the most important contributions that he played sol part in helping to create conscienceness around that. Joan was a great spirit in search of great ideas and she had have met you and she had have written you a check and met clinton she would have written him a check and did write jimmy carter several checks and she was an uneducated person and she was grew up poor so all of a sudden with her husbands wealth and he was dead so it was all hers so a little bit different than a rich family trying to disperse her wealth but she was in an incredible position and decided that wherever she met someone she didnt decide but it happen that side way. She met a woman on a plane who wanted to build the first three stand hospice and joan wrote her a check and made it happen because she had put her father and ray had gone through who is pies care and she knew hospice was important and admiring this woman, doctor about her age that this woman had achieved a degree and so she made it happen. What i loved about her is that she bucked convention both of mcdonalds and conservative corporation and husband, and while she didnt have a strategy, she she basically fell in love with somebody who had a great idea and wanted to make sure it happened whether it was jimmy carter or mr. Rogers fred rogers bill a good friend and father at notre dame heard her speak once and brought her to a lecture and said he wanted to build a Peace Institute at Notre Dame Department have the money. She walked up to him and said im joan croc she didnt know who joan croc was and she said i want to give you money to build this center, and so i love that spirit it would have been amazing if she had been directed in a different way. But, you know, wouldnt be great you know just to say on point quickly since i run this, i talk in my bio about running this Cooking Group at a homeless shelter not to brag about it but because immaterial to see that a busy person can do that and one of the reasons i love doing it, it is not just me doing it, im doing it with people. People here in the audience who have joined me who love helping and theyre just not sure how to help. And so somebody you bossy like e says show up on this at a time were going to buy grocery and cook them make people realize for 20 all throwing this our time and money and can can make a difference thats what i love about any sort of philanthropy that it is molds for other people and joan was that. Nobody has most of us dont have is that kind of wealth but that is something that we all have in us. And it is just in search of a way to direct it. So first of all, joan first of all sounds incredibly amazing and then she would have loved you. Second, i think im like going to draw some slaughter some sort of sacred calves but if you think about i both love i have two things i want to say to each of you basically but i love the spirit of volunteer i. L and getting people to do more. And that in and of itself is sort of deeply inefficient like an organization has new employees show up every day you have to train them and then you cant rely on there to stay incredibly expensive and inefficient and other thing is second, like i both respect like bill clinton sort of ideas around that. And if you think about it, like you know, technical way bill clinton in a Big Corporation you know get together probably Big Foundation and sort of like decide which ideas theyre sorts of going to fund. But theres a problem with that or at least not, you know, i both like love nonprofits and nonprofit people but i also do have like a heament respect for sort of the market and thats just like from existing in startup world. If you think about the business that, pure business you have like walmart has, you know, some of the smartest people in the world and all of a sudden amazon cools by and fully interrupting it and hilton have great companies, and great hotels and then airbnb update it is not because some Big Corporation was like thats a good idea but because four got together and said to try this and a thousand different groups of four people and best one competed and then went to the top. And nonprofits that actually doesnt happen. Like theres very, theres basically a cemetery between startup nonprofit and boys and girls club and red cross and nobody ever sort of crosses that. So what you have is basically big sort of philanthropist and corporations and then large and existing foundations that have gotten very, very good at raising a lot of money, and are very insent vise to protect their job, and no sort of disruption to miss that. I have to respond to that because [laughter] well just because its not its not what happened. Cgi i agree with what youre saying. But what happened at cgi was clinton wouldnt sit in a room and say were going if you had this, fund that. They would have hundreds of people come from both the corporate world nonprofit world, they gave scholarships to the nonprofit people the corporate people had to pay to be there. And Government People too. People from governments around the world. Academics as well and select each other to do projectses. So for instance proctor and gamble purify water but dumping packet of water you stir it around and sits there for an and precipitates nasty stuff out of it and ive drunk it myself in africa and this saves lots of peoples lives especially children because diarrhea type diseases are decidely to so many kids around the world but Procter Gamble did not have a way to get those packet to people out in rural place where is they really needed them. So they partnered with some big nonprofit and small nonprofits to create a supply chain which would bring that stuff out and they tbaif it away, a lot of it. And so thats really more how it worked not like clinton sitting in a room saying you know i think Procter Gamble should do this with Ford Foundation and there may have been some of that but really it was much more of a organic process as you would say. And it worked better because of that your criticism is correct and would have been done that way so it established very little but it accomplished a lot because people were, you know, selecting each other basically and coming together in a process like you were describing. thats why joan dissolves and people started asking and she didnt have to deal with bureaucracy sheeted freedom and liberty she was allergic to this structure you were talking about. I know exactly what youre saying. But no, it is. But you know, i i run a nonprofit that just on a budget of 300,000 per year and we have to raise that money every year and i tell you it is it a dog fight every year to raise that money. And theres like it is almost like and i dont mean to say because i think it is a great sector but almost like a certain level of like who is tull who is hostility so first of all they it say no because need is far bigger thane asset to like anybody they develop Defense Mechanisms that dont really want to talk and engage with you because theyre afraid youre going ask. If you think about how fore profits raise money you great investor deck and you send that to everybody. Foundations all have their own different application processes that are [inaudible conversations] and you have to do a different one for everyone single one and once you do it, and you get a grant in that rare case, then you have to send them specific special updates on that grant different for each one so youre already sort of as nonprofits handicap bit fact you have to raise this revenue every year but they have you can huge expense buckets like this grant writer and grant manager that dont exist in the fore profit world and im not like saying businesses solve everything. But i am saying that theres theres something about this structure that explains why weve got a lot of smart people working on a lot of smart things and equality is widest point in American History as far as i understand it. Im going to dive in something sam said something to bring us become to this point in a round bout way but you were talking about this gap that exist between people giving new and in need of receiving this so a question of empathy and im curious to understand how you say joan and bill also kind of thought to gain empathy in the world to better understand the problem actually theres a kind of a secondary story that you write about, joe i think its about singapore president and president bush and clinton both together and she the first time that president s who essentially adversaries [inaudible conversations] who were out together to kind of bring and raise attention to specific issues. And the president said courage to invite her adversaries to large state dinner that everyone was attending. In the tsunami when they did tsunami relief. But i felt that extended empathy was really interesting and apparent so id love to hear more about how you all think about empathy in context and how either bill or joan gained it or sam how youre thinking it be right now. I can tick a stab at that. One interest ising thing to see on wall street was sort of how the culture impacts people so in my own experience and experience what i saw was this gradual calcification and and reenforcing of Defense Mechanisms sort of overtime and i fell give you an example. So if you think about every single superwealthy person that i knew on wall street deeply prided themselveses on their own frugality, and if you think about what that was about, i think, like i literally would work with guys who could burn 50,000 stock of money every day for their lives and not only not run out of the money their net worth wouldnt go down over time and if you think about what it must take, and also then if you think about what a billion dollars in the bank represents, if you just think about it and not as money but as a big silo of food well theres moleless peel out there. Like it has a lot of power. Right . And so my opinion is that over time, people build a moral code to support that. And so this frugality is way of saying im frugal so i decide this. And must be unfrugal thats why u youre not in this position so look thats a very vague generalization for closest friends are on wall street so i think that wall street is often vilified so sort of that develop withing culture for that. For me also it was like i was sort of like i got lucky basically on wall street, and by lucky i mean like you know my life right when i started wall street was like a complete utter catastrophe involving like arrest and drugs and all of that leads to me sort of getting sober right at the beginning of wall street which led to me sorts of going into counseling. So i would literally like work during the day reading economic report and trading derivatives but at night i was talking to a counselor basically processing deep and pain from my childhood and there was this process that i think was like teaching me empathy and reconnecting me with parts of me that i lost touch with so seven or eight years into wall street i think different from a lot of people i had that calcification for sure i would hang out with my twin brother sort of in the social justice and just a way that i would talk and think was normal about like yeah were going skiing this weekend and i cant afford it and you know, there was this what i thought of was just average was bairvegly leak luxury. So was there that. But then there was also this like feignfully earned therapy sessions that kept me open to hard stuff is basically. Joan had grown up poor. And she never forgot that had even after she became enormously rich and there are people who become enormously rich and never tap into that reserve but she couldnt live with herself even though she lives fantastically and fabulously and had a jet and used it like a pickup truck to ferry people around but couldnt pass a homeless or stray dog on the street without wanting to stop and help. And she did stop and help someone told me earlier to use her plane to pick up a girlfriend of hers in town and theyd go fly around and bring flowers to nursing homes. Now, that is not a calculated strategy to help people. But it is something beautiful and reactive and she did that time again you know flood victims on television where as we would see flood victim on television and be devastated and not know what to do she flew with a 15 million check to help people. And with the aids epidemic, she went to Elizabeth Taylor and presented her with a Million Dollars for amfar so i can go on and on but she seemed to have this baked into her, this empathy for people not emp just less fortunate than herself because most didnt have the means that she did. But people in compromise situations. She couldnt pass them up and i think that many of us have that feeling but we check it. You know oh, i cant give that guy an extra 5 because i dont have whole lot of money but she had no accident cushion and didnt make any excuses, and i dont know how we translate that into the complex issues that youre bringing up. I was going to say i think joan has the answer and that yol of my complicated ideas are or social enterprise is share money with everybody that needs it and figure out how to do that then you doapght needs any of this stuff that im talking about. The giving was if youre familiar with giving pledge of people who give away pledge to give away at least half of their wealth. When i was at marketplace years ago i did a story about a woman who made 40,000 a year. She wasnt in the gate stratosphere and plelged pledged to give away half had of her money making Peanut Butter and jelly switch no charity, no organization buying bottles of water and driving around and giving them to workers in home tea depot and plenty would argue with that strategy but that was her commitment giving half of wealth away i learned a lot watching her. She was opposite of joan but in circumstance, but not in heart. And spirit so yeah. So, of course, clinton is the guy whose caricature as feel yours pain guy. So he was that. He people forget because myself relatively rate now that he also grew up this poor circumstances not poverty but pretty tight circumstances he was orphaned and his mother worked as a nurse and grandparents raised him and they had didnt have any money. So he knows what its like to be poor and also, i mean, you know, as a as a both as a politician and then later in his philanthropy he was exposed a lot to all kinds of circumstances so you know, when he and bush went to the countries that were hit by the tsunami, they saw things that, you know, would blow your mind. They were so bad. And thats how they felt. They tried to prepare for it and watch stuff on tv, and you know when they got there, it was like nothing theyd ever seen before. Just the analyst of devastation, the families destroyed. So hes seen a lot of that in asia, in africa. Hes not going to forget what people need. I mean, i also think that about bill clinton and also politics in general like you know, what i understand about clinton is that he was Public Service from the beginning. And hillary was superworried about money and he sort of wasnt, and was just going to right, with and that like are if you think in a sense like politics is sort of what im talking about that i sort of wish business was. Right like in politics it is very clear that theres selfinterest. But it is also very is clear that people are often xepght for potentially some people in the white house at the moment you know motivated by the public good, and you know, so well you know, that formula works for him up until the time when they got in the white house with 20 million many debt so that required a different strategy. But to address that, it is true. I think they both are motivated. By both how did they . Legal fees because of impeachment. Theyd been pursued thats the story of my first book the president how they got in debt. Pursued by ken star who spent 50 million or more of taxpayer money on pursuing them over mostly baseless charges so they ran up huge legal bills for themselves but pay for those who worked for them in destitute so they had a huge debt when hillary said she was mocking to this you may recall saying you know, we were i forget the phrase but basically said we were in debts. We have nothing, in the white house and basically that was true. Now people had told him youll make a lot of money when youre next president you can and youll give speeches what you decide not to do. But it actually took a while for various circumstances to this for them to finally get out of debt. So i have like i have to ask you were you going to Say Something . What joan loved people who were religious who take in vows poverty and she entrusted a lot of money to them because she felt like she could trust them differently than with a nonrost with accounting going on. Or the layers going on. And so she gave money to the Salvation Army and to religious people. Those were her in her mind the formidable she wasnt religious herself. But there was something about somebody who committed their life you think thats why loved jimmy carter teachly religious person and she really jived to that. Sorry interrupt you. Clinton inspired by carter i should say i talk about this in the book. They had not gotten along as people very different people. To say the least and theyd had some political clashes over the years. But clinton told me when he was going to leave the white house he studied expresident s and made some of them had done incredible things but carter was at the top of the list of people who he thought he should model what he was doing. So what i was going to ask you that you must know or have a view as to why did she give speeches to Goldman Sachs. At that point they have hundreds i never asked her that. I think theres a worry and people on the right who want to see her, and theres a feeling and there may be a feeling of a need of security for some kind. I dont understand that. A little known fact about that which she did tell me when i interviewed her for the book which was that when she was leaving the state department, her husband at that time was made the most money giving speeches of anybody in history. He was so popular they give speeches all over the world all kiengdz of groups. Powell the people who made a lot of money, and same speaking firm that arranged his speeches wanted her to come to them and she said to them thats fine. Id like to do that. You know, but i cant give speeches in Foreign Countries which is where most of the money is. If you go to gulf states if you go to Europe Clinton had made a lot of money in europe and asia giving speeches when he wasnt that popular, needsly after he left the white house because of march and so forth there were problems for him that he later recovered from. But when he went abroad he was very popular. And this speaking firm said to her, with what do you mean . You cant give speeches abroad thats all of the money is. She said i cant do that because i was secretary of state and that would look wrong and if you look at the list she never gave a single e speech there so i think Goldman Sachs mean specific about Goldman Sachs that she worked with them on programs to advance womens businesses. And so she was friendly with them and i think she misperceived how poem would take that later. That is the short answer. Very badly so i discuss that in the book. But she did not do a single foreign speech for that kind of reason which was she tonight want it to be seen wrong way. So we have 15 minutes left so if anyone would like to ask a question microphone on either side so because were live on cspan, you can line up and make sure that you speak into a microphone. Go for it. Were talking about philanthropy and havent talked about bill gates and warren buffett, and id like it hear your address the question of in light of the century ago philanthropist and rich guys like carnegie and rock er who left us legacy but did a lot of good in the world and then meads a lot of money and did a lot of good. Is there a natural instinct or outer layers . Joe i always say that gates and buffett pledged to give away fortunes before they died and ray and joan, im sorry joan, did it. She before she dired gave away all of the her money. Without fan fir and could have reestablished a foundation as she got older. She was broad sighted by illness so she couldnt at the end of her life but had she her name could have lived on the name could have lived on in perpetuity the way the carnegie mellens all of the fords, foundations that we know, today. So its interesting she chose not to go in that direction 237 she didnt want that kind of fanfare and maybe thats a woman. I dont know. Because she didnt earn the money. , so to speak, thats what old mcdonalds guys say she just gave it away. But yeah. I dont know what others qowld say 237. Foundation did a e enormous amount of good and have to give away 5 in nonprofit and this is changing somewhat but often the bulk of that money is invested in corporations that they havent really thought about whether theres social impacts to those investments. So in a weird way its both great, that that i doing a lot of good for the world. It is nice for their name and public prestige and it can be thought of as entrenching that wealth in way that may not sort of i am in i guess dot most good and i like when i hear about foundation i think bill gates is this to go to zero an not trying to keep that and keep 5 but invest in a good way thats going to disaster because they want the most good with it. Thats how i lean is like pretty cool. All i can say about that is if all of the billionaires who have been created in this society over the past 20 years decided to emulate bill gates we had live in a different country and world so and ford family really it shall has corrected he henry fod not such great image by instituting their foundation which, you know, unless you do the research dont realize that was the legacy up until the Foundation Came along thats the support. Possible question for sam, but about a decade ago there was a group of amazing social entrepreneurs people like josh mailman in new york city, and ben and jerry, and they were involved with this group called social venture hads network do you know if theyre still around or i think they are still around and chapters in different cities as far as i understand it. Ive worked with josh mailman actually. He was helped us to get National Memo off the ground and theyre definitely still around so sam id like to go back to introductory statement about dichotomy between business and philanthropy, and although i understand how your billionaire boss statement view that i cant do both would have impacted, it did. It also seems true to me that when i was in business i was certainly not a billionaire boss it took all of my energy and i had all of these responsibilities pep and people werent interested to take a day or week off and do something else. They wanted the job done tomorrow. How does that work if youre going to be in that business . Maybe the fill philanthropy doet take your energy but maybe it should thats the choice youve made how do you work that in one single human being . So if youll permit me a shameless seflt plug ill tell you how im doing that a little bit. So we started this business called every table and bairvegly how it works it is healthy food that is affordable for everybody, so how we get there is that we have a centralized kitchen that is producing a large amount of healthy, delicious meals incredible meals. But then at the central kitchen theyre packaged in grab and grow containers but that is simple and key Economic Insight it you think about what chipotle look like 2500 square foot of space ten to 15 employees, fully builtout kitchen expensive to build and expensive to run. Never will sell a burrito because everything is made that fresh that did i and packaged we can open up store front 700 scwooflt and have no builtout chimp but instead beautiful display refrigerator and two employees per store so in credibly low cost structure and pass safes on to those buying the foods and figured it out that if we if we had our cost structure and put a 30 margin on that sort of fair for the sort of fast food world then we would be selling food at 6 now that is cheap in a lot of places but in a lot of place like South Los Angeles where per capita income is 13,000 a year and Life Expectancy is ten years lower than Pacific Palisades for a lot of reasons and include manying fact with no healthy fresh food there. Folks cant afford 6 a meal and thats why mcdonalds is doing well with 495 and 495 things so we establishmented what we call a pricing model where on the stores that we open in underserved area like compton and south l. A. Food every store is meant to be profitable but differently profitable so in lower income store sold between four and 5. We open stores also in santa monica and downtown l. A. Pacific palisades and we sell the same food from the same sort of look and feel stores for 8. And beauty of the model is it is profitable in every location but in more affluent areas and that gives us capital that we need for growth basically so all of this to say i dont mean to sound braggy in one way but what we try to do is create a structure. A structure of the business that didnt require that sort of buy their either doing go ahead or youre doing bad basically. I guess that is interesting and wonderful and sounds fantastic but my question was intended as a personal commitment kind of which is what i thought your introductory statement was all about. You went from a personal commitment in business to personal commitment in philanthropy and most people cant choose. They can only afford to do one or the other. I guess i wanted to see how you would think about it or others theres a whole generation of people coming up who were looking for ways to merge those two seemingly desperate threads of their lives and social enterprise thats what this is all about right. Fnlings so was your question because like that Financial Reality meant no more time to do it my energy was blown and wife could complain to come home 5 00 and i couldnt help. I was you know worn out thats not okay. So my answer to this by the way is that youre totally right and there wasnt much that you could do and more pee, you know, i was lucky that i had time to do this so what youre saying is 100 true and social enterprise ideas because wouldnt it be great if that sector took off and there was ton was jobs in that sector so you could face this decision about should i stay had in this job or go to this 95 job where i know im making money but also doing good in the world. We have time for one more quick question and maybe one or two quick answers. Im all for private charity but to what extent do you have thousand point might trickle down takes away societys responsibility for fixing some of the hills and problems that theyve created, i mean, it sounds like certainly a lot of things are defunded now but carter done more good after their presidency than they did during. Ill tell you thats a big question that i confront when i decided to write this book i dont believe charities are a solution i never believerred that. After writing the book i didnt believe that. Ill tell you bill clinton doesnt believe it either. He thinks there are skills and aptitude and connections that are in the Nonprofit Sector and in private corporations that can be applied to social problems in certain ways and should be, but if you asked him, you know, is there private sector going to solve the issue of Health Insurance for all . Definitely not. You can believe that before he doesnt believe that now. Do you believe that one of the things he said to me was early on, i said well how does it feel now that youre rich . He said joe, i love being rich. The reason i love being rich is because now i can advocate higher taxes on people like me and nobody can complain about it. [laughter] so so if you took all of the philanthropic spending including get and buffett all of this and put it in the bucket it is nothing compared to the general needs of society. It just does not begin to address that even if you took it, double, triple it it would never get there. So it meets discreet needs. Aids work that clinton did was pads for by governments. It was not paid for by, you know, bill gates participanted but government of ireland and canada and governor of norway with its Oil Norwegian oil wealth and government in the gulf eventually our government under george w. Bush which spent billions of tax dollars to provide aids medication in africa because it decided by him and all of these other governments that this was in the public interest. There was a private sector or aspect of it, clinton spearheaded this through his private charity but wouldnt have happened if governments hasnt come in and stop happening if they stop. Which im im fearful that the government under trurp is going to do because they dont care about that. So your question is very apt and you know, the Public Sector has a huge role to play in solving these problems. J and thank you im sorry to say that our time is up. But thank you verify to joe lisa, and sam. [applause]. Joe will follow in about 20 minutes to sign books. We will see you tomorrow. [inaudible conversations] booktv live coverage of the tucson festival of the book continues were on the campus of university of arizona the festival itself is held outside in many aspects