Believe in the divinity of christ and he didnt believe in miracles. He didnt believe in the trinity. However, im not talking about personal beliefs. Im talking about my understanding of what christianity is for my training of the way i was raised. Also dismissive of jefferson. I was about to say that arguing with peter other unitarian tradition, a unitarian tradition and convinced me that i was being prejudice, that i was being too dogmatic. Confessional moment. Tha yes, Something Like that. That i was not taken jefferson religion, his statement that he was a christian seriously. If you think about it, there have certainly been they were people talk about what gospels with darwin, what gospels would come out. So its not like there was some received tradition that came down unchallenged through the ages. I backed up away from that and i became convinced that he cant call himself a christian, but he was insincere. One of the things he says if he wanted to hear the voice of jesus as a great ethical teacher who could speak to mankind, the family of mankind without the intermediation of all the interpreters, all the priests, all the people who had a selfinterest in interpreting him a certain way. A miracle is simply speaking a violation of the laws of nature. And then you are saying god is not lawful in creation doesnt make sense. That is an understanding trying to understand the laws that govern gods creation a way of worshiping god . This is the deists position, which is easily trivialized and reject it today because it doesnt involve a leap of faith. I think it is wrong to believe in an orderly world, to believe in the imminent enlightenment of the world and the possibility that jesus gospel of peace and love could become universal and that all peoples in the world participate in that. You couldnt believe what was going to happen soon. It had to be something you could only pray for. It wouldnt happen in your lifetime. That often faith in creation bue deserves more respect than it has gotten from people who would soon but their embrace or some miracle teaching that is special to them because of their personal relationship to ae of r godlike race, this is jeffersons insistence. I will throw this out to you. There must be one out there or two. Jefferson database. Im the real christian. John calvin, wherever you live, you are an atheist. He believed that in thinking that there would be religion, a new religion would be a part of American Life forever. So he takes a razor blade and cut the bible, removing all the miracles, all the things he thought violated the rules of science, that can jesus. Teachings intact and he wanted this to be a part of a civic religion for the new republic and society. And asked what was called the jefferson bible. He named it the life and morals of jesus of nazareth, and was given out to members of the house of representatives and they were like that. Can you imagine . If you could imagine that could . Happen. Now you are picking on everything. So he thought that kind of talk would be a good book for the new republic and society. Religion was supposed to be important, but the ethical teachings of jesus, not the miracles and not the other things he thought would have to be interpreted by people or explained by people who had ulterior motives. People connected to the motion of monarchy were away somehow connect to the kings together. We have been the cold war, you know, a country or some sort of system we think as opposed to a period that talk about the teachers who are hooked up but the form of government that held down the Common People did not allow people to participate in government. He was looking towards anment future day and now is the time for unitarians to declare yourself every young man in america would be the unitarian. Hes a visionary. What he is seeing, this is important and comes back to one of our big themes. His spiritual quest is all about making sense of history. The course of history through time and for him, people who are no longer constrained to worship in state support of churches, but freely choose what preaching to hear, and they will become increasingly in light then through the competition of the religious marketplace, separation of church and state makes possible what will emerge eventually will be a genuinely democratic religion of the people that will shape their moral and ethical division. If you have selfgovernment, and enlightened people will do the right thing. Jefferson didnt think it was enough just to let people as they were make these momentous decisions. They needed to be educated, enlightened. They needed to be taught and they truly christian and might and christianity would do that to the american people. I would risk saying that jefferson advocated the emergence of a christian nation. Now dont start pushing back at me because that is a term that is used on a very antijeffersonian position on the far right. He also believed that in nature and the creation of natures god, there was an intelligent design. It made sense. This was his class to make sense of the world in the face of his own ignorance, all the things he didnt know, all the things he couldnt predict, that he prayed for the lake. I think with that, we are supposed to take questions from you guys. This is a revival meeting. Raise your hand and look at a microphone to you. Thank you for that provocative, interesting presentation. Could you say a word about both jeffersons mentor, mr. Wyatt and also what role if any did the henry adams having your understanding of the entire imagination . Well, we quote henry adams at the beginning because he creates Alliance People people use about the semitransparent shadows suggests that jefferson is inscrutable individual. Henry adams was a masterful writer and he was an addins. His family left long ambivalent relations is jefferson. Its been enormously influential. Jefferson law teacher studied law with him longer than most people said they thought. Almost five years. He said he was a major master, dear friend was murdered later on. He was incalculable importance to jefferson as a mentor. Y he was antislavery. P2 is a figure of enlightenment. We talked about landsburg and Jefferson Ian Baird and suggesting that relations with others, the governor, that his teachers said they sat him on a path and say to himself. He thought that young people, until they got to be a certain age, were not really fit for b making their own decisions, do what you should do is model yourself after other eminent people, eminent men. Nd you ask if he was a difficult situation, he would say what would mr. Wade u. S. Meant her. The answer was a hero. His model of the relationship between the generations of passing on the wisdom and delay. That is why hes the professors favorite founder because hes one of us. Plane off the idea of culture hero, can you address his fascination with and the importance of music to him what you address in the book . Where the chapter on music instead of this is not a typical soup to nuts biography of jefferson. Theres certain things that we have different chapters. Please, stop it. The patriarchs that that the life in the second bus travel for what he goes overseas. N the last one is called enthusiasm. Music is the first chapter in there. He said as it was the favorite passion of his soul. Some evidence he mightve played the cello, that hes saying when he was by himself, edwin bacon and Isaac Granger was at monticello and he was always singing. His granddaughter remembers him singing all the time. His wife, martha, was an excellent harpsichordist. She sang and that was a part of family, sort of making family music is an integral part of that. Singing together, played Music Together with his daughters. His younger daughter, mariah, was not so great. She tried to please him and all of his children, they were violinists. The youngest one actually made his living as a musician, a violinist in ohio and his signature tim is one of jeffersons favorite tune, whene he was known for playing. Music is not attached due to people. It was a sentiment, a very important way to have a meeting of the mind and more a meeting of the heart, very emotional to him. The person who was an can be described sometimes as a distant person, but he more or less more shy because people said after a while he warmed up, but music was a way of making connections to people. Is a model of an ideal conversation that everybodyf brings something to a, but you have to be well trained. You have to play together. The division of democracy and is completely unrealistic. He and his family could practice in his home and he could imagine for the american people. Think of American History as a really good extended jazz riff. For jefferson, he would do several. It wouldnt be rancorous or conflictual. They wouldnt the dueling solos hamilton versus jefferson. It would be one great beautiful song. Even in his leisure cavities, he is performing an acting and thinking about what matters most to him both in his family and society as a whole. Jefferson wrote the american songbook. We will try to stack peoplee people appear. Theres a gentleman and a black cat. What you think jefferson but think about it freedoms that today . I may not only freedom for slaves, but also freedom for women. Women actually did not get the vote until 50 years after the slaves. What do you think they would think about . She says that with a smile on her face. I think that the emancipation of women would be more difficult for him than what happens on the racial front. Its not natural. I think he says they venture a suspicion only that blacks are intellectually inferior to white. Most of the people at the time believed that and many people believe that today. He never wouldve ventured a suspicion that women were different. That wouldve been clear as a bedrock principle. Someone asked me when i was working on the happenings via cello to fascinate, people asked me, would he be more upset about barack obama been president for Hillary Clinton being president. I dont think theres any question that he wouldve beenen more upset about a womanab president because that wouldve violated nature. You understand there you understand their amman and other countries who are leaders and sometimes a king or queen if something went wrong. He talks about slaves and lay people revolting and rising that. Hes talking about myth. Women arent in the picture. E. They are not an object of fear for him. I hesitate to quarrel once again because they get in real trouble and we are going to be on the road for a while. But the qualification and im serious now. Jeffersons notion of democracy is that we are all capable of malice to find us. He thinks you have to work for it. In the letter that gets people really upset that he writes to his daughter, martha when shes 12 years old about how she can please send. If you do this, i will love you. Anybody who has been raised on fred rogers in this neighborhood and i think most of you didnt have that happen to you. Of course a good presbyterian feature lets you just where you were. Jefferson does that. Its not that he doesnt want his daughters, but he wants them as the marines want you to be, all that you can be. That was the misapplication of something. The point is serious. What do you think about this . For instance, with his granddaughters and their ability to learn. I mean, the letter that he writes when shes 12, hes a middleaged guy whos lost his life. He has two daughters. Wi he has no idea what to say to don. Hes lost the separate spheres of male and female. He gradually over the time, by the time he gets granddaughters, he knows what to say. He knows how to talk to young women. Im not saying you are attacking him. Ill qualify in this notion about pete thinks hes being the dutiful father and all of that. He is somewhat thick. That it comes from a place of panic perhaps. You know, how am i going to do this. They dont have a mother. I am now in control of this. What do i do. Even the idea we should go on. L we argue all the time. Is a man in a black cat. You cant jefferson is such an idealist at all times. Its always willing to accept the best and the potential of everything. Was there ever a moment in his life where he gave into absolute cynicism and he may be lost some faith in the potential of america. Great question. You want to start . Thing about optimism, i do want to sound too psychoanalytic to you now. What is that even mean . The highest proportion psychoanalyst. Rl [inaudible] love and hate are very close to each other. Same course their effect is sprayed with today. Optimism and pessimism only make sense together. You cant be optimistic hamas from the other side of it is this fear of failure that it wont be there. I think you have constantly with the sale failure. He engaged in a spiritual quest. He would is afraid it would alll fall apart. We talk about the spiritual quest. Jefferson speaking about religion at the end of this life is different from the young man is really against priests. That may be a natural progression in peoples lives when a sort of looking back and taking stock of all the things that i worked in all the things that havent worked. The end is pretty bad because hes broke. For a long time its prettyy clear this is not going to work out. He keeps sort of fantasizing about ways to get out of debt. He has some sort of Aa Development plan for milton. We think of charlottesville atet this time. For most of his life, milk and, which is pretty much nothing now, he wanted to buy property there and develop it and do things. He kept trying to do it. Near the end, its pretty clear that its all going to fall apart. And he was nasty and politics, did a lot of underhanded things. Is a lot of nasty stuff in politics. I had the benefit of reading either of your books to, although i intend to read any of jeffersons books, letters to john adams and so forth. But i have a problem reconciling hypocrisy of jefferson and the fathers as it pertains to slavery. My limited understanding and history at this time im led to believe that when the Founding Fathers in the colonies were confronted with opposing the evils of the british monarchy and the institutions that we inherited from the old world the word evil, slavery being the foremost, that to get the colonies to unite, and the two colonies that were insisting on south carolina, i believe in georgia am i correct . No, you are wrong. Slavery was legal everywhere. Well, they insisted on it being sure, can you get to that question because theyve got to move on. I guess its easy to say as y white person that he was being hypocritical. He inherited the institution. My question is, he didnt like it, but he inherited it. We dont like the word. We told you not to say it. Is understandable. Its a difficult thing for people to reconcile. What we say about jefferson, people have a set of intellectual bullies that we dont always have the strength to live up to. And its a glaring flaw to us because we see by not dealing with this in the beginning were when jefferson was living, we see what happens. But if they had tried to deal the sort of standard answers there would have been a union. There it be no union if they have friends. No america. [inaudible] thats their point. It would not have come in. People can say people suggest they not come in. They could go off and make peace on their own. But that is not that isnt the way it went. People had some interest in creating a union and they wouldve been able to do it if there had not been a compromise. He turns is important to remember Abraham Lincoln and the way he turns back to jefferson for the ideas and principles that would justify a war for the union and ultimately an end to lay buried. I think it is a measure of our cynicism of disenchantment that we can find them to jefferson because we dont believe in progress. But lincoln believed in the progress he got jefferson and his generation had initiated not achieved, do we continue to tell that story or do we turn back and say it with a cynical joke against mankind. Take a pic. We ta a question regarding alley having. Why do you think jefferson did not freighter . We talk about this in the book. R i talk about this and other books as well because our understanding is when people in that relationship, the thing you do is read the women. Read to children, but not her. When jefferson dies, in order to free her, he would have had to put her name in a document. He wouldve had to put her in the will to send free alley having. Everybody knew who sally was in relationship to them. The last name was not really given, but people those songs, told jokes about the whole business. I he would have had to petition the legislature to have her remain in the state because a law in virginia said if you didnt get legislative permission, you had to leave virginia or you would be reenslaved after a year. The other thing is she was at the time, she was 50 years old. You could not free in layperson below the age of 21 or above the age of 45 without explaining how you are going to take care of them, how they were going to be provided for. Sally hemming name in a well, petition to the legislature and him saying this is how much money im going to leave her for her to take care of herself. We wouldve never argued about this question. If you don not, that would have been an admission that everything people have been named was true and he did not want to do that. The most important person in jeffersons life was marked to randolph. This is just my speculation. Looking at the facts of what he would have to do. I dont think you would humiliate her like that, to make that admission on his deathbed. The other thing is i dont think jefferson would have thoughtt that it was a proper thing i dont think he wouldve thought of this property free 250yearold woman. Even if he could do. He did free people who are older at the time and they did explain how they were going to be taken care of. I dont think he wanted to admit this and i dont think he wouldve wanted to free a woman, a 53yearold woman. He had the free area, the daughter because any challenge he had, the two oldest children go off and find people and they dont want freedom papers because they papers because they live in enslaved people. People know that they are notwh all white and thats not what they wanted. So he has to free her because shes young and she can have children. She has children in virginia, the children are enslaved because they followed what your mother was. Sally hammons for the reason we would we would be talking about him. We would not be here tonight talking about him if he admitted that he had lived 38 years and had seven children with an africanamerican enslaved woman, you wouldve never been on mount rushmore. Its just not possible. He was all about very much into this notion of legacy. He thought he was going to live he wanted to live through the ages. He knew that they had done Something Special in creating the United States of america and he wanted to be remembered for that. The White Community would never have except to 10 as a hero. F look at what has happened now. Other reevaluation of him about religion and about this. Thats what it is. He knew that. He knew his people. People say what ever jefferson says the people will not air this if the people are not ready. He was a formal politician of his era. He knew his people and he knew that if he admitted that, they would never have honored him. Unfortunately, we have hit our time limit. Please join me and thinking peter onuf. [applause]