Transcripts For CSPAN2 Open Phones With Nathalia Holt 20170412

Missiles to the moon to mars. And she joins us now here in the gallagher theater on the campus of the university of arizona. What was the common, the commonality they found among these women . These are women who loved math and science. But they were coming of age at a time when it was not an option for women. They were women going to school in the 1930s and 40s. They were frequently the only women in their math and science classes. I just heard that over and over again. And so you can imagine how it felt for them to come together and be part of this large group of women working at the jet propulsion laboratory. Did nasa have a specific program that encourage this . This was before nasa. So nasa studied in 1958. These women were hired in the 1940s and they were hired by a woman named nancy roberts. The reason she hired all women was because she felt like she had hired men they would listen to her simply because she was a woman. And this is a cohesive group. They work for nasa 40 or 50 years. One of them still work there today and so they really had to support one another. And by the way if you want to dial in and talk with Nathalia Holt this of the numbers. 2027488200 for those of you in the Eastern Central time zones. And 2027488201 for those of you in the mountain and pacific time zones. Was their reluctance by these women to share their experiences with you . It wasnt. From the beginning they loved telling me their stories about the history and it wasnt very easy to find them. So when i first contacted the nasa archives that all of these lovely photographs of the women. But they had lost most of their names and all of their contact information. So what was step two . To find it was difficult. I basically called every barbara, and helen in virginia within 10 states to find the right one. And even from the first phone calls, they were so excited to finally be able to get the recognition for their long careers. And also just to tell me these exciting stories of what it was like in Mission Control for the first winter and planetary missions. You make that phone call, you reach the right person. Tell us about that moment. The first time i talked to barbara i had talked with literally dozens of barbara pulses before her. And so i finally found her and right away she wanted to tell me the story about americas first satellite. And she was actually the person in Mission Control responsible for calculating the trajectory of the satellite as it left earth. So she is sitting there in the middle of the night on january 31, 1958 with a room full of men and they are all over her shoulder to find out if this mission will be a success. And it is her math done by hand with paper and pencil that lets us know explorer one has made it, america has its first satellite. That was one of the first story she told me. And it was so exciting, so thrilling to be able to hear firsthand what that was like. There are not very many people left that can tell us about these nasa missions, what it was like in Mission Control. It was thrilling to hear that way. Is it a coincidence that this program was starting the same year that went up . It started way before that actually. These were men and women that were working, starting in the late 1930s working on early missiles. Then by the 1950s they started adapting that technology and their goal really was to launch the worlds first satellite. And i started working on a project called jupiter c. And she was telling me about this and they launched this september 20, 1957. And it broke all records for the time. It could have launched the worlds first satellite. But unfortunately eisenhower had not given them the goahead for the mission yet. And because of that it was actually way down in the sandbanks. My speed with these women theyre still bitter about this. Theyre so angry. The feeling they should have been the first. And it was not until after sputnik and even after second one that they were finally given the goahead and able to launch americas first satellite. The first call for facebook. Com booktv is from christina in maryland. Christina, you are on booktv. Hi, i would just like to ask you, when you did your research and evenly talk about the women specifically, did you include, does this include africanamerican women . Or did your Research Lead to that . Did you find that there were africanamerican pioneers or in women in science . Absolutely. Thank you maam. Absolutely. Of course many will have heard of Hidden Figures. This Incredible Group of africanamerican women that worked at langley. And im very pleased my book to also discuss many women of color. I speak about janessa lawson. She received her degree in Chemical Engineering from ucla. And today she would just be hired as an engineer but back then in the 1950s, she was hired as a computer. And it took many years for her to become an engineer. She had incredible contributions at the lab. She is one of many women of the diverse group. Helen lange is a woman who led the group for a long time. And she was involved in just about every mission you could think of that nasa has run. So when you look at margos book, figures is a subset of what youre doing with rise of the rocket girls . My book was a group of women at the jet propulsion laboratory. And they are different because if such long careers. They worked there for 15 years and then such a broad range of missions. But i think the books really complement one another. There really telling the story of these women of nasa. And it is wonderful for people to know that this is not just a few women. This was a large group of women working all over the country and had such an enormous influence. David in missouri. Go ahead. I am curious about somebody writing a book we received astronomical information via photons. Would that be as good subject for a book . Thank you, sir. I think the more books that we have about science and Space Science is definitely for the better. The more that we can bring these subjects to life for readers is wonderful. Nathalia holt , what was your background . Was this a learning curve for you and you got to this story or your background, did give you access . I previously had done a book about hiv. Does my background. Microbiology. I came into this project completely by chance. While searching for baby names of all things. But i think in some ways it helps to have a bit of a science background. Because i do have a phd. But in other ways it helps that im not an astrophysicist because i was able to describe much of the work that they did and much of the signs they did in ways i think any reader can understand. And what they did is so fascinating. It was so interesting how they were able to calculate trajectories and design spaceships. Make the connection between baby names and this project. My research on the book started in 2010. My husband and i were expecting our first child. But we could not agree on a single baby name. We were just writing about baby names all the time. And then my husband suggested the name Eleanor Francis. And it wasnt so sure about it at first because it is an oldfashioned name. And so i did what basically parents do these days. I googled the name. In the first person that came up in my search was a woman named Eleanor Francis helene. And i saw this dutiful picture of her in my browser taken in the 1960s where she was accepting an award at nasa. And i was just struck by it. I was really stunned. Ive never heard of women working at nasa at that time much less a scientist. So it began an obsession that would take me years of learning that she was not the only one. She was a large group of women. And her daughters name today . Her name is Eleanor Francis. It was funny because she was named in part for a woman who i never got the chance to meet. Eleanor francis passed away a year before started my research. But i hope that her name and her story one day inspires my daughter. Cindy in claremont florida. I cindy, go ahead. I love your book i read it last year and am so grateful that you are writing about females in history which has been ignored. I wonder if youre able to do anything through your publication and your book to encourage girls in high school to get interested and sciences and get interested in careers like this. So that maybe this gets on the reading list of high school. Cindy are you somebody interested in math and science . No not at all. I just read a lot of nonfiction and biographies. Thank you maam. Thank you. That is something im so passionate about. Im really passionate about bringing more women into math and science. In some of those numbers are troubling right now. We are seeing the first very stagnating interest among female High School Graduates interested in stem. The number of graduates and Computer Science in particular is troubling. In 1984, 37 percent of bachelor degrees in science was higher and it has dropped. This is an area that we have to improve upon and i think a big part of that is recognizing that women have always played a role in these fields. And that we have so many great role models for young people today. I do think that trend has been happening . Using 1984, 30 percent of Computer Science degrees went to women. 37 percent. It is a huge drop. From 37 percent to 18 percent. And there are many reasons that people have calculator for what we have such a big draw. But what i think is really interesting is how some universities are combating this. There is a great example and a university in southern california. They were seen as very low graduation rates. Only about 12 percent of the Computer Science graduates for women. And then they made big changes. They restructure the introductory classes so students who had no back on it all would still be able to get involved and study the major. The Main Research opportunities available and they also started sending a female students to this great conference and computing and by making those changes they went from 12 percent to five years later more than half. It is quite remarkable. There are definitely things we can do. Who is . She is an incredible woman in computing in science. She does have an incredible story of what she worked on. She was an admiral in the navy and there are 70 great stories. Dan, seattle. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. So nice to have the flashback for the early days of jpl. In 1957, jpl was run by and i was fortunate enough to be one of the electronic students drag from caltech and got to work on the antennas for explorer 1 and the satellite. I just want to say i am having a big smile today. If youre looking for a real blast from the past go to the southeast corner of the air and space museum. As i did a few years ago. There are a couple of prototypes we built. Thank you very much for your doing and bringing the ladies to the forefront. There werent any around. I was going to ask if he had worked with any women. [laughter] robert from colorado. You are on booktv. With author Nathalia Holt. I enjoyed your presentation very much and have been very interested in the positions of women in higher education. I am a retired professor of oncology. When i came time for college i only had choices of local teachers colleges. And i live in pittsburgh and i did not attend a major and sciences but i did and i made a list of the teachers that i enjoyed the most. They were all scientists. Most of them had their phd which was unusual. For 1955. And every one of them talked to me about going on to graduate work and getting a doctorate. Ive never had this experience before and i think that the fact that these women did not have a degree, they took the time to encourage me and i think this was part of their role in higher education. That is wonderful to hear. It is amazing what a difference a great teacher can have. I think so many, for so many of the female scientists i spoke to many of them can attribute the first interest in science to a specific teacher for particularly a middle school that influenced them. Has nasas change in missions over the years hurt this group were helped this group . This group of women ended up going from these early computers. They were doing all of the calculations by hand and to the first computer programmers. They were trained in early computer languages and they were the ones that wrote the first programs from the mind to the planet. And then over the years of course it changed quite a bit. These are women mostly retired in the 1990s. Some of the last projects they were done with the rovers. But there is still one woman from that original group that works for you today. Too friendly. She was hired in 1958. And she has nasas longestserving female employees. What particular project is she working on today . She is working in juneau which is our mission to jupiter. Next call for Nathalia Holt coming from victoria in charleston, south carolina. Hi victoria. Hello. Ive heard the question about the fact that they were actually women working in the enigma program about figuring at the codes and stuff. I just wondered if you might have heard of any women that might have been native american working with them to do the clothes in world war ii debbie or that there were any women, that is such an interesting question. I have not heard of that. And it piqued my interest. Now i want to go see if there were. Because it certainly seems possible. I do not know anything about it but i am curious. During world war ii again, the role of women in breaking codes or different projects along this line. The women across at jpl, much of the work was classified at the time. They all had security clearances and they were all very careful to lock up all of their work at night. [laughter] did any of them speak about discrimination from the majority male population in the workplace . They did. These are women that for the most part felt very respected by their male colleagues which was exceptional for the time. But of Course Experience discrimination as well. I heard much about certain individuals that made life difficult. Especially one engineer who liked to cover his walls with pictures of naked women. He was not a favorite among the group as you can imagine. The next call for Nathalia Holt comes from dan in pennsylvania. So pleased to speak with you. Two questions. In the previous session, the other author referenced the fact that there was an exaggeration in the will be Hidden Figures regarding john glenns attitude for the computers. And the second part of the question is do you think part of the problem with going into size has to do and how daunting an academic job it is. You know the pattern of getting the phd and Everything Else it takes. I was wondering if you think that is part of the problem. The first part of your question, i know they talk about some of the exaggerations in the movie and Hidden Figures. And there are a few points that are different from the movie to the book. That is why it is always great to read the book and get the real details and hear the story. Certainly they did a great job of really documenting the womens role in these missions and i think the movie does capture the spirit of the book. Certainly even though there are some digressions from the text. And the second part of your question i would say it is the rigors of academic life that keep women from science. I think that there are so many discouragements that women face and finding careers in science they certainly should not be one. And in the past of course it was almost impossible for women to get degrees in these fields much less the, even be considered for a faculty position. And the way that things are changing at i hope it is not part of it. Did you start out your Career Planning on a phd . Im not sure anyone plans on a phd. Im not sure if there are fiveyearolds going around but maybe there are. I was not one of them. In Elementary School i did not do very well. Math in particular. But fortunately i just had a passion for it. Even despite my early experiences. I always love science. When i decided to get my phd felt very right to me to be continuing my education in that way. What is your phd and . Is in microbiology. What does that mean . What did you study . I did my phd in hiv gene therapy approach. Ive always been very interested in viruses in particular. They are very fascinating to study. Next call is michael and mount vernon, new york. Youre on with author Nathalia Holt. Very nice to talk to you. I saw the prior segments. I am a baby boomer generation. But growing up i realized that my mother and her sisters could outdo everyone in math. I wondered whether Nathalia Holt had a chance to talk to her subjects about the math training they may have received at Elementary School, middle school and high school. With my experience, no one could outdo again, my mothers generation and her sisters and it seemed like anybody in her generation was superior in math. And im going to get off the line so i can listen. Certainly talk to them quite a bit about their early education. For most of them there was this love of math early on. They were passionate about it. They wanted to pursue it. Many of them had teachers that made a big difference in their goals. And then for many of them when they got to higher education, when asked to take calculus for example, they were frequently not only the only girl in the class but often had to go to a mans college in order to take these classes. So i spoke with sue findlay who took her calculus classes at a mans college and others to chemistry and calculus classes. It was really the only way they can even get the education. But it is interesting i talked about generation differences. Because i also discussed with them the Way Technology has changed. How we learn math. I think for many of them, they certainly feel that it is perhaps a little too easy to do calculations these days. There is a way that they learn how to do math that just made them stronger at it. Then the students are today. John is coming in from gresham, oregon. Thank you Nathalia Holt for your discussion and thank you booktv for this opportunity. I am a longtime viewer of and advocate for Nasa Television. I have been trying for decades to get the major cable, National Cable outlets to provide Nasa Television as part of their basic to get Nasa Television not dear cable box you must have a either a local Cable Company or a Public Access television station. The reason i bring this up is because i have been blessed with a Public Access Cable Television outlet that provides nasa tv. I can converse nasa with just about anybody but i get blank stares when i talked to people who do not wash Nasa Television. I bring this up because it is sad that the national populace is basically science illiterate. Thank you so much. Don in gresham oregon. Thank you. Quest i found that many people i talked to about nasa today will say its not like the good old days we were still exploring space. Those days are over. And yet, we still are exploring. We have new horizons, we have juno, we are exploring all of these planets in our solar system. Exploration is not over. We have rovers running around mars right now. Certainly i think the point of making more of what nasa does every day open to the public is wonderful. Because it is exciting and the images are stunning. Some of these images from saturn make your jaw drop. They are incredible. I completely agree that it is important. To go to johns point, we all knew what apollo was. How many people have heard of cassini for juno . It is not in our imagination anymore. It is a real problem. It is unfortunate we have to send astronauts into space just to get our excitement. There is a lot of excitement out there exploring these planets with spacecraft as well. Is there a common lament among these women . I would not say there really was. They all had different experiences, different takes on their careers. But for the most part they felt very fortunate to have the careers that they had. They love working at jpl. I think the most common lament was how much they had been forgotten. I documented several points about in the book. I talked about in 2008 they had this gala in honor of explorer 1, the first satellite. But they did not get any of the women that were part of that mission. Not one of them was invited. Not even barbara who was so critical in that mission success. They had just been left out of so many of those celebrations. Was it an oversight . It was an oversight but they lost their information. History really has been lost. They were documented in the book so hopefully that will not happen again. Ive spoken with them at jpl. I am pretty sure they will include them from here on out. Kerry and lake orion, michigan. You are on the air with Nathalia Holt. You are on booktv. We will give you one more chance to say something. Thank you. Am i on now . Yes you are on the air. Yes, i was interested whether Nathalia Holt had any information on speaking of the jpl, there was involvement of the jpl and the air force x plane program. X1 through 15 in the 50s and 60s. Did she get any information on who have made worked on those programs . Thank you, sir. I do not any information. It is such an exciting information but i dont know the women that may have worked on it. Im curious. But i do not know anything about that. Finally william from new york. Hi william. How are you . How are you miss Nathalia Holt . Please go ahead. Quest i would like to know the contributions made by to rise of the rocket girls. Can you repeat that name . Mr. John f kennedy. Of course, he is so instrumental in shaping nasa and making Lunar Missions a priority. But what i find really interesting is that at the same time he is making this really grand speech about how we must get to the moon, that is our destiny. We are at the same time, aching our first exploration to venus with the mariner two. The first interplanetary spacecraft. So while he is talking about them when we were really choosing the planets. And i think it is really fascinating that he brought so much attention, so much excitement and so much funding into future years to nasa. And yet, there was still that tension. Still that feeling that it was not just about the moon. It was about really understanding our solar system. Nathalia holt, you mentioned in the Panel Discussion that your next book is on disney animators. How did you find that . Is still very in the early days so i cannot talk about it too much. Just an Exceptional Group of women that work. Artists and animators of Walt Disney Studios that started in the 1930s. It is a very small group of women. They have so much influence on these classic films. They are responsible for advancing much of the technology at disney. In the technology at disney is very exceptional. Especially in the early days of what they were able to accomplish. They also had a very interesting role in gender as well. Im having so much fun learning about all of these subjects and im excited about this book. The book that we have been