Host how did end up at rice university. Guest my parents win to university in america. My roots american because my parents met at Columbia University in new york and i had that influence about the great education available in american institutions and want tote have a chance to broaden my horizons and move to the United States for college and the first time i came to United States i was eight years old. Came to california, to visit my father who had become a professor here, and i fell in love with the United States and going back to france, i kept thinking about america, its culture, history, politics, literature, art, so definitely when i finished high school i was very keen on moving to the United States. Host why did you say. Guest so many Different Things love about america, universities, land of great contrast, fascinating place to write about. After college i went to law school and back a public defender human rights lawyer defending the rights of poor people in the criminal justice system. In the age of mass incarceration and decided to become an peak and now i have the experience of working at stanford university. You for book is call singsal america what divides america from the world. Is america unique . Is america exceptional. Guest america is an exceptional nation. However a lot of people misfund what american exceptionalism means. People think it mains exceptional in terms of wonderful, superior, or outstanding. Our, exceptional mitchell meant that american is an exception, compared to other western democracyes. For example, america is today the only western nation to still have the Death Penalty and lacks a universal Healthcare System and these are falls sets of what american exceptionalism but theyre not good or about. Dems on what think about the dealt penalty of healthcare, and the polarization of american sew size. Americans are clashing over a broad range after issues which are not controversial or much controversial elsewhere in the western world, such as whether people should have a basic right to health care. Whether special interests should be allowed to spend Unlimited Money on political campaigns and on lobby, whether Climate Change is a hoax and creating evolution in court, whether people should have a right to abortions whether only sexual education or comprehensive sexual education in schools. Whether to have an unbridled right to have arms, Death Penalty, mass incarceration on a scale not only on a new jersey american unprecedented in American History and the history of human kind, whether it is appropriate to reintroduce torture as a way of fighting terrorism in modern civilization. These are issues the heart of the u. S. Political debate and again, there they are not controversial or much less controversial elsewhere in the west and thats what makes america unique for better or worse. Host do you have a point of view on those issues . Guest the of American Society is a different dimension of american exceptionalism, and it undermines the great contributions that america has met to spread democracy in human rights throughout the world. Four factors the heart of my book. The antiintel electrickism in intellectualism in the nation which fosters conspiracy, disinformation, the spread of deliberately false information as a political strategy and also the way that christian fundamentalism, a little interpretation of the bible and also very hardline views on a broad range of social issues, then the weight of unique in the western world. Universal health care is wildly accepted elsewhere in the west, european nations, canada, australia, and new zealand and other parts of developed world such as japan, but in america its explosive issue and thats because of a very peculiar conception of the role of government, especially among american conservatives which makes them very suspicious of government authority. And finally, the role of racial resentment in American History. Its not because americans are more racist than europeans. Not at all. America in many ways is ahead of other western nations in this area but americans have a much longer history. Today is the western nations was by far the largest proportion of racial and ethnicminorities, 368 and therefore american institutions have been much more shaped by not only Racial Discrimination but by Racial Division which is one of the many factors that have led to the intense porlarization among americans. Host we often talk when we talk about political america of a red america and a blue america or purple america. Have you found that . Guest yes. Host what their different snooze one hand theres very strucking contrast between the north and south and a lot of people might say everyone knows that. What is interesting is if we look from a comparative angle its not the same in other western nations. If you leave paris for Rural Regions of france you might miami people who are more consecutive and if you leave amsterdam, you might people people who are more conservative as well but youre very unlikely to meet people who are in favor of teaching creationism in Public Schools or would think that universal health care and abortion or some of the greatest evils that humankind has known, by contrast, these are common beliefs in the red states. What is also interesting is to look the data that huge regional contention within the United States and a contrast at a partisan level nationwide. So even conservatives in blue state take vary hardline position on a broad range of issue if the perfect examples or July Giuliani and chris christie, who have a supported donald trump even though hi took a very hardline since on issues during this campaign. Host Mugambi Jouet is our guest. If call 202phone numbers on the screen, and they are 7488200 if you leave in the east and central time zone. 7488201 for those in the mountain and pacific time zone. Well begin taking your calls in just a minute. From your book, exceptional america, the issue is not whether democrats are trying to turn america into europe as rums have channelinged republicans hey charged. Rather it is that liberal america is closer to europe and other parts of the west than to conservative america on many of its political social and moral values. To a large extent it is consecutive conserve testify america that is an conservative america that is a an exception. Guest exactly. Basically nowdays consecutive americans are outliers in the western world because of the very different perception of broad range of issues, the role of government, religion, human rights, and in many ways, american liberals are closer to other we werers, european, canadians, australians and New Zealanders on major issues such as universal health care, the right to abortion, gun control, et cetera. So, its really interesting to look at that contrast. Host but distribute a connection and how do you explain brexit, explain the fact that marine he pen is the leader of maybe with 20 some percent of the votes in the French Election today, or that donald trump is the profit the United States . Other. The . The parallels between the evolution of american democracy and the rise of the far right, antiimmigration, form of populism on both sites of the atlantic, and indeed that when donald trump won the u. S. Presidency, far right european leadersecstatic but a they really identified with his antiimmigration populistic agenda. But on another level a lot of differences between the u. S. And other western nations. Many more than sources and forces in america than other western democracies. Too many forms of divide in europe today are, one, antiimmigration sentiment that nativism, and hostility towards the European Union. Be two are intertwined because the eu is accused of opening up borders, enabling immigration and of also undermining the sovereignty of european nations and both immigrants and the eu are scapegoated for europeans nations problems. If you look the u. S. Debate, immigration and nationalism are sources of divide and many a issue ted heart of the u. S. Political debate that are much less controversial elsewhere in the west. Universal Hillary Health care, n control, abortion. Host lets start from a call from jacob in wisconsin. Youre on the ware, please go ahead. Hi. Id like to ask the author about maybe perhaps commenting on the fact that craig murray, the form ambassador to us a beck scan from britain, received intel that the cia was actually oiling people alive in is our policy better than chinas or worse and at home we killed dr. King. The New York Times reported that Government Agencies assassinated dr. King. Ill leave itself at that. Maybe you can comment and i just wonder how much freer are we than anyone else or lies that every government is being told more or less. Host professor jouet what do you what to do with that . Guest its a great question. Overall america has made a major contribution to the spread of democracy and human rights throughout the world. Its important to understand that america is the First Western democracy that emerged from the enlightenment. The Founding Fathers were not perfect men, still they produced a concept of individual liberties that were models for other nations. That being said america has been a nation of contradiction, including with regard to human rights, civil rights, slavery, for africanamericans, a lot of questions, and i would say when we look at interesting america, interesting contrasts. Host lily from los angeles. Caller hi. Thank you very much. Professor, i want to know have you ever lived or visited an American Indian reservation for a substantial period of time . Host why do you ask that question . Caller because he talking about liberties. Host all right, thank you, maam. Guest ive not had a chance to visit an American Indian reservation but have visited the equivalent in other parts of the western world such as australia, and new zealand, and any book i do talk about how the birth of American Society was also synonymous with great hardship for maybe people, including native americans, there was a phenomenon called manifest destiny, the westward advance over the United States in the neighbor of liberty and paroling and also meant that native americans lost their land and we know that many of them were massacred and mass atrocities during that period. Host if manifest destiny a unique trait of america . Guest yes and no. So ever since the time europeans came to north america, there was the idea that it was a special land that could be molded interest an ideal society and that was true for the socalled new world, that other europeans discovered. The Founding Fathers in many cases felt that providence was on their sound as they founded the american democracy we have today, and still in 19th 19th century there was another period with manifest destiny where the country started expanding westward but that was really a repetition of these longstanding ideas about mesh american greatness and uuniqueness and fought in american exceptionalism is part of that. It was redefined from a concept meaning that america is an exception objectively to mean a faith in american superiority and this redefinition occurred around the time of Barack Obamas presidency because the references to american exceptionalism skyrocket about the time that obama was elected and Many Republican leader accused own on of not believing in american exceptionalism and trying to transform america in europe and canada that a sociality agenda and at the same time others some politicians were accusing barack obama of not having American Values some went a further step and claim that obama does not have a american identity and conspiracy theories that obama is not a real u. S. Citizen because he has a forged u. S. Birth connect and is a covert muslim with jihadi sympathies. Conspiracy theories that donald trump helped, and that was american exceptionalism was redefined. Host how widespread her to Conspiracy Theory snooze looking the data. The hopes of Climate Change, security of socialized medicine. And this has played a major role in shaping the nature of the u. S. Political debate. There is a lecturer at stanford law school. The first book is exceptional america what divides america from the world and from each other. Beverly is calling in from georgia. Hello, go ahead. Caller my concern has to do with people that call themselves conservative and who feel its fine to have as many guns as they want and not have any regulation or anything that would violate their Second Amendment rights and on the other hand, they do not believe that women should have abortio abortions. Guest that is a great question. Overall, the american conservatism in the last 30 30 years is a phenomenon that political scientists have said basically the Republican Party moved dramatically to the right in the last 30 years and much more so to the right and the party has moved to the left and much of that shift is explained by the weight of the antigovernment actors especially the fundamentalism and the idea that the state governments, taxes and regulations are in the heart of all social economic problems and the way to heal the difficulties is to get the government out of peoples lives but opeoples livesbut of cours, many of the people, advocates on small government in favor of the policy that would include women on whether they should have abortions and whether people should be allowed to marry a loved one of the same set, but as a contract between this idea of a small government and the weight of the government can make more decisions for americans. Host delaware, good afternoon please go ahead with your question or comment. Guest caller i have a twopart question. I wondered froive wondered froe professor, who is your favorite american political leader from the beginning. Costco was the second part . Caller what were his feelings since immigration is one of the major central discussions of today by the middle Eastern Countries have not accepted their fellow citizens who were fleeing the terrible war although they have common culture language and religion. Costco very quickly can you answer those questions what is your view on immigration and who is your political leader of alltime . Guest co. I think i were friend is gone. Its up to you, professor Mugambi Jouet. Guest franklin ddelta roosevelt that led america to world war ii and also to redefine the American Social contract and building more 80. Many americans today think about our difficulties to the new deal is a great model and in terms of immigration we need to do more in terms of accepting refugees especially countrie countries te region were mentioned but also European Countries and in the United States. Host can you expand a little bit on the refugee crisis, whats happening in europe and north africa an norte mediterranean . Guest right now im in europe is divided with the surge of the refugees from Different Countries including serious and beyond and its destabilized the policies by favoring the right of the european parties who believe that the European Union with the most open borders and freedom of movement is responsible for letting so many people into their country come and we se, andwe see the same te United States when mr. Trump said that no refugees should be allowed to come here but what is interesting a is this is a politically new phenomena and theyve been much less shaped by racial and a economic decisions that span the United States because the white population until the surge comes forward is in the postworld war ii era city institutions like universal healthcare, the human rights were at a time that is largely homogeneous and didnt have the same. The contrast in the United States its always been a large minority of african americans, native americans here and therefore, they may have been much more racialized. When they think of universal healthealthcare they dont thinf something with racial and ethnic minorities, they think of something that is good for everyone, but in the United States, one of the reasons why people are hostile towards universal health care is because they tend to think that its only for minorities on welfare. Host next call for Mugambi Jouet comes from john in new york. You are on book tv. Caller i have a twopart question if i may. First part is how word you explain the United States is the most open society and probably on the face of the earth with Information Available literally at your fingertips and at the same time, we seem to be so uninformed and related to the second part of the question. Why is it so many people in the country seemed to vote in their own interest . Guest that is a great question. The weight of antiintellectualism and ironically the modern democracy in the United States even though the Founding Fathers were very learned man they were highly intellectual and extremely well educated as Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson being wellversed and it wa was also E Development of a very popular education that started inflating education with elitism and fostering the notion that common sense people really didnt need to be educated and that foster the conspiracy theories and to the civic formation which again is a spread of false information for political reasons and their we see some of the historical and social roots of the paradox that you mentioned which is that america is a country with great universities that have made tremendous contributions and at the same time, we have a great skepticism of education including among some of the information leaders. Host you were raised in paris and over here it is liberty and freedom, it is a different concept totally, isnt it . Or a different approach . Guest what is interesting is america and france have those ideas and for example, Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were ambassadors to the United States and france mingling in the circles of the french enlightenment and assorted others like James Madison but the revolution succeeded the french revolution in 1776 in 1789 and it was a great model events of america and france have taken different paths, they have a common origin born of universal ideas inequalities and human rights. Human rights. Lets hear from kathy. Caller i would like to ask where did his ideas come from and do you think that its because you grew up in france as a prosecutor in the United States or the idea that you are familiar with the areas in france and they do not get so upset about healthcare so it is unique. How did you come up with where did your ideas come from . Guest doubled up my book is based on history, law, politics, economy. Now and then i add my own personahad my ownpersonal expera and europe but all of this is based on the qualitative and quantitative evidence and data. Host we are talking with Mugambi Jouet with the book exceptional america. Caller thank you for letting me call. I wanted to let the professor know that im enjoying what hes saying today. I also wanted to ask after you researched the affect of other countries histories of rules of the king othat the king or the t of having a king ruling in most oof that historyof the history. Which never really had a single king [inaudible] caller accepting the rule and social values such as the Healthcare System and Welfare Health care system and welfare and that sort of thing. Host thank you, elizabeth. Guest [inaudible] came to america in 1830 and america hasnt had the same history of monarchy as the western european nations but it explains why americans have had more equality in their early years and why democracy spreads differently than in europe but what is also interesting is even though they want more freedom and accountability in the early American History its changed ih the industrialization of the 20th century so even though it wasnt great equality back then by the 20th century the relationship had become the opposite. Today it is high here in western europe than in the United States. Host lets hear from paige calling from indiana pennsylvania. You are on book tv. Caller hello. My question for the professor is do you see any tests where [inaudible] host thank you maam. Guest where theres life, there itheres hope and i thinks important for americans not to demonize each other. Befriend people of different possibilities and at the same time, the great obstacle in resolving american difficulties is not only that there are great divides on political and social issues but theres also a great factual divide among americans that relates to what i mentioned in the conspiracy mongering in American Society that tends to distort the entire political debate so if people cannot agree and so many people believe it is a hoax or conspiracy created by a scientist, there is no way people can agree on a potential solution to the problem and find a way forward, there must be facts that will enable a rational debate. Host you write that it is publicly displaying their face with which exacerbates by legitimizing the religion in the politics. Guest but is another major