The chairs authorized to declare recess at anytime. The core attribute of sovereignty is maintaining control over national boundaries. Yet, for years weve witnessed the failure of the u. S. Government to secure southern border. This failure has allowed millions of foreign nationals to enter the United States illegally and has brought huge amounts of illicit narcotics to be smuggled into the country. Theyve had significant consequences for taxpayers, victims of Violent Crime and for the rule of law. It is time to secure the border. A central issue of the presidency 2006 campaign was the promise to build an impenetrable tall southern border wall. They are taking steps to fulfill that and a subcommittee has closely monitored this process. They have issued a executive order to take appropriate steps to build the wall. March 17 they should to request for issues for prototype design for the requirements set forth in the executive order. Dhs is expected to use this prototype to inform actual construction. Border walls have said success in recent years. President trump has seen Israeli Border as securing the usmexico border. The security fence on the Israel Border cut illegal entries in 2011 down to just 43 in 2013 and 12 and 2014. A 99 decrease. Israels Prime Minister remarked that President Trump is right, i built a wall on israels southern border, it stopped all ilLegal Immigration. Great success, great idea. Now, to those who abus oppose building wall dispute that successors the reason they oppose building the wall precisely because they acknowledge its potential effectiveness it curving ilLegal Immigration . I think we need to figure that out. Recent Media Coverage has focused on the cost and this is a legitimate issue. Dhs of just begun the procurement process. For example Senate Democrats recently issued a flood report saying the wall will cost 70 billion. Todays democratic witness wrote that a border wall would cost as much as 14 billion which is much different than the Senate Democrat estimates. What they did was take the highest historical number they can find a multiplied by the total miles of the border which i dont think anybody is suggesting how to do it. Another is meant to confuse the issue and americans deserve better than that. The wall should be built in a fiscally responsible way and a variety of creative ways such as using those seats from drug dealers at little or no cost to the text tightly. At the same time was rarely discussed is whether securing the border will have a positive effect on american taxpayers at the local, state, federal level. Today will here test my from immigration expert on a the significant burden that ilLegal Immigration and having an unsecured border can impose on u. S. Taxpayers. The dr. Estimates that if the border wall preventing between hundred 60000 200000 illegal crossing which is only 10 of the expected crossings in the next decade, then the u. S. Would realize between 12 and 15 billion in savings. That would effectively offset the cost of building the wall even if you didnt use the seas drug assets. Securing the borders more about dollars and cents. Its about a government student be to defend our sovereignty, and protect our citizens. IlLegal Immigration has had significant human costs. Too Many Americans have been robbed of loved ones to crimes committed by criminal aliens who should not have been allowed in the country. One of them is mrs. Agnes gibney who lost her son, ro ronald da silva, 15 years ago today. He was ordered by a previously deported immigrant with a long criminal record. She herself is a legal immigrant from hungary. She did it the right way and her son was taken from her by someone who had no right to be in our country. What makes a tragedy and others like its available is that reynolds murder was preventable. Have the government simply done its job and maintained a secure border the murder would never have been able to enter the country and ronald would be with us. Building a wall cannot stop all ilLegal Immigration but its a necessary first step in consistent with experiences in san diego and human has the potential to dramatically reduce it. The United States will need to deploy additional human technological and legal resources. In addition predictable enforcement will restore the rule of law and teacher what the Illegal Immigrants attempting to circumvent in the first place. We hope our witness mr. Brennan judd will speak more broadly about what our officers and agency on the border every day and what they need to do to do their job. The subcommittee will continue robust oversight over these actions to determining how they are meeting the threat posed by border. We want to make sure taxpayer money is being used well, that barrier is being built an effective way will monitor it as it unfolds. I think the witnesses for being here today for their testimony. With that, a yield to the Ranking Member mr. Lynch. Thank you. I want to thank you and your staff on both sides of the in the witnesses to what is a very emotional and legitimately for some of the witnesses today, issue. I look for to public transparent analysis where we have an objective needs assessment, Risk Assessment and engineering assessment as to the costbenefit of this potentially huge investment. I cannotyou be the father of two sons who lost a parent to violence i cannot imagine what its like to be here to sit on this anniversary. So for your loss and your passion to see something about that im very respectful inasmuch as we may have differences i understand as best i can for what is brought you here today i to see other parents not in the position you been in. Ms. Espinosa, what ive read in your work more globally as you see many cases in your ultimate desire that you had. Mr. Jog im Great Respect for the work you do. I know having conversations with the state Law Enforcement and the difficult jobs you do and will work with you on that. The other two witnesses, thank you for being here. Let man to that that this crucial work we take is very serious. It should be factbased. Look at this issue so you can identify what issues will work and what the cost to be for the taxpayers. What the president is proposing will not work and recently the Oversight Committee they represented district having a higher miles of the border. He wrote, he he called the wall the most expensive and least effective way to secure the border. He also wrote, quote, true Border Security demands a flexible strategy that includes a mix of personal, technology, and changing taxes. All of which came at a lower price take. Im in agreement with my colleague. The president claims the wall cost ten or 12 billion. Most analysis of place number for hire. We estimated the border wall will cost nearly 22 billion in upfront Construction Costs low. Other independent studies have estimates up to 40 years 70 million. This is the same they were getting including those helping Everyday Americans to provide returns to the american public. They propose billions towards the wall including proposed budget that would cut nearly 6 billion or the funding to National Institutes of health jeopardizing medical advancements to cure chronic diseases and save lives, including cancer. Additionally the wall will undermine the National Security by redirecting funds from programs that actually worked to secure our border. The money would be pulled from airport screening programs that help secure these major points of entry where drugs are more likely to be trafficked into our borders. Despite the president s rhetoric authorized immigrants dropped from 12. 221. 2 million in 2014. During the same time where people became unauthorized to be in the United States by overstaying visas them by coming across u. S. Border with mexico. 40 of the people in the United States have overstayed their visas. The president s proposal to build a solid concrete wall across the lincoln or southern border fails to be workable or costeffective. His request to congress to appropriate billions of dollars of shortsighted. Shortsighted request for congress breaks one of his most fundamental Campaign Promises that the American People would not pay a dime for the wall on the usmexico border. Mr. Chairman, we have a short video to play. Without objection. We are going to build the wall, we have notes choice. Who is going to pay for the wall . Mexico. Who . The wall is going to be paid for by mexico. And mexico will pay for the wall. Mexico is going to pay for. I will have mexico pay for that wall. Who is going to pay for the wall . Mexico. Who . Mexico. Do you believe that mexico will pay for . No. You must be talking about having mexico pay for do you think that is a viable option . No. Thank you mr. Chairman. When announcing his when announcing his president ial bid the president stated i will build a great wall and nobody builds walls greater than me, believe me. And i will build them very x very inexpensively. I will have mexico pay for that wall, mark my words. And love quotes. As of february 2016 Campaign Rally the president reiterated that mexico will pay for the wall 100 . Of course these are only a few of the countless times the president has overpromised and under delivered for the American People. Now, less than 100 days into presidency he has abandoned this promise and changed his tune. Earlier this week he tweeted, mexico will pay for the wall quote eventually and in some form. With his track record, nobody should believe that. Instead, his demanding American Families have the burden of finding additional billions of dollars to build this wall. Until earlier this week you signaling he would be willing to shut down the government to get the leverage to take the money out of the wallets of hardworking families. We have problems to address in securing our borders, we all agree. The president s propose border wall does nothing to advance our National Security. Not only should it not be built, it should not be built on the backs of hardworking American Families. I yelled back. I will hold the record open for five legislative days for any member who would like to submit a written statement. Will now wreck nicer panel witnesses. Pleased to welcome mr. Stephen, phd and director of Research Center for immigration study, mr. Brandon john, Border Patrol council, ms. Maria espinosa, mse glad youre able to get here. Welcome to all. All witnesses will be sworn in before they testify so please rise. Raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear the testimony youre about to root give will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you god . Thank you, please be seated. All witnesses answered in the affirmative. In order to allow time for discussion please limit testimony to five minutes. Your entire written statement will be made part of the record. Mr. Cammarata you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you. I would like to thank the chair and the committee for inviting me. Im director of research for the center of immigration studies. My testimony is based on recent report published by the center. The analysis reports the fiscal costs of illegal Border Crossers based on fiscal estimates developed by the National Academy of sciences, engineering, medicine early this year. Last year for immigrants by education level. These calculations are based on pretty wellestablished facts about Illegal Immigrants. First, there is agreement that Illegal Immigrants overwhelmingly have modest levels of education, the vast majority did not graduate high school in the home country or have only the equivalent of a high school education. Also those who come in with the lower education education combining them with the National Academy studies show that on balance if you take all of the taxes that they are likely to pay in their lifetime, given the education levels and all the services and costs they create theres a net drain on taxpayers of about 75000 per illegal border crosser, or about 7. 5 billion per 100,000. This figure is only for the original illegal immigrant. It doesnt count the descendents. We can do that, thats in the study from the academy. If we apply those estimates the cost will rise to about 94 billion per illegal immigrant and their defendants or about 9. 4 billion per 100,000. To be clear, the fiscal cost of Illegal Immigrants is not due to the fact they dont want to work, its not due to the fact that many work off the books. Rather it reflects their educational attainment. The modern American Economy people with the skill profile, nativeborn immigrants or illegal immigrant pay less in taxes than these and services. Theres absolute agreement in that. What these cost estimates do is give us an idea not only of what illegal Border Crossers cost but all so let us evaluate the likely savings that different enforcers create first taxpayers versus what the strategies might toss. For example a newly released study indicates that 1. 7 million Illegal Immigrants were successfully cross our borders in the next ten years. If thats the case and nobody knows what that and given these costs, it means that if we were to stop just 19 make 12 of those crossers over the next decade it would generate 12 to make 15 billion in savings which might be enough to pay for the wall. It could pay for itself even if it only kept out a small fraction of the people expected to come. Recently the Cato Institute evaluate my analysis and argued that they were not as unskilled as i thought they were, but even so they still found that the average illegal border crosser would pay the fiscal deficit of 43000 or 4. 3 billion per 100,000 illegal crosser. Now they also tried to argue that it shouldnt count because the federal government is building the wall. This doesnt make sense to me but ultimately if you count the state local cost seems reasonable to me to do so. And finally i want they employ a concept of net present value which calculates the fiscal impact they have the effect of reducing the size of the join that unskilled immigrants will create because it discounts the cost in the future. If you didnt do that discounting the costs are much higher. About 150,000. If you want to do a different calculation that is what you would get. The bottom line from this analysis is that unskilled immigration which characterizes most ilLegal Immigration is very costly to taxpayers given their education and given the realities of the modern economy that pays less educated relatively low wages coupled with a large and welldeveloped administrative state. Its not a moral defect on their part. Is simply the reality of education. Thank you for allowing me to testify. I look for to your questions. We now recognize mr. Judd. Chairman, congressman, i appreciate the opportunity to be here today. I want to emphasize for 2000 miles with the border. But what i will advocate for is the border wall which helps us secure the border. I want to point out what happened give a historical analysis of why the borders on secure today. In the mid 80s the United States face the first ilLegal Immigration crisis. They had a proximately 2000 miles of United States mexico border. Other than barbed wire fences there are no vehicle or pedestrian borders. It was overwhelmed and congress chose to deal with illegal aliens in the United States by passing the Immigration Reform act of 86. The act promised to secure the border and ensure the United States would never put in the same situation again. The x field. It failed in large part because they put the cart before the horse. Without securing the border first the government legalized those who willfully violated u. S. Wall. By so doing we broadcast a clear message to the world that our laws could be made void if enough people enter the country illegally. The message was heard worldwide. IlLegal Immigration exploded. After 86 the high numbers took place in San Diego California and texas. The Border Patrol thought of it could control these two quarters then be able to control ilLegal Immigration and narcotics smuggling. They left other areas like the yuma arizona. The prevailing thought is that it did not exist on either side of the border to allow smuggling organizations to move organizations to the inhospitable areas of arizona. The prevailing thought was wrong. For more than ten years the tucson Border Patrol was overrun because we didnt have the foresight to realize smuggling is big business and the cartels are flexible and adaptable. In essence we created the problem in tucson and the citizens and interest paid for mistakes. Unlike today in the mid 80s and 90s existed not exist, criminal cartels do not control every facet of the border and transnational gangs were not prevalent in the United States. Today this is our reality. If we refuse to learn from phil Border Security we will never secure the border. We must take a proactive approach and it must start with infrastructure and manpower. Must be comprehensive. We must acknowledge that shutting down the sector without addressing will create the same type of vacuum that we created in arizona. Part of the proper infrastructure, the wall is being heavily debated. As an agent who worked at two of the busiest sections i can tell you how effective border barrier side. When i got to the tucson sector and next to nothing by the wave infrastructure. I can say that forever illegal border crosser i apprehended, three getaway. The building of barriers a large fences of bipartisan effort allowed agents to dictate where illegal crossings took place and doubled how effective i was able to be in apprehending illegal Border Crossers. As an agent who has extensive experience working with and without border barriers and as a person elected, i can personally attest how effective the wall in strategic locations will be. I implore both sides of the aisle to quit politicizing Border Security and illegal border entries and work with the men and women of the United StatesBorder Control by providing the Proper Technology infrastructure and manpower. By so doing Border Patrol agents will secure the border. I think you. Mr. Chairman, and distinguished members of that committee amounted to be here before you today to testify on issues of National Security. My testimony is based upon my nearly eight years of traveling across the country. An organization with advocates for families, our country previously most forgotten. People were killed by illegal aliens. My testimony is designed to help you understand the urgency of the immediate need to secure country. Americans will continue to be under assault until the wall is built in the border secure. Ive attended murder trials, testified in states and participate around tables discussions with sheriffs. I made presentations and spoke with groups over the United States about the most devastating of all impacts of ilLegal Immigration. Ive had hundreds of firsttime experiences with many stolen live families. Families of american slang by illegal aliens have given her wrenching congressional testimony like it when youre about to hear. But the tragic and violent killings of loved ones perpetrated by someone who should not have been in the country. The irony, seems as though the politicians listened and gave families their condolences, congressional leaderships, bodies of both houses have failed to enact the very measures that would have saved american lives. America has spoken, we want the wall built right away. Today speak on behalf of the remembrance project advocacy where we support our president and American First National agenda. The wall is the Foundation Upon which a comprehensive border policy can and must be built. It is of the utmost urgency. First for future perspective on National Border open policy lets look at texas over the last six years. According to the department of Homeland Security status over 217,000 criminal aliens have been booked into local texas jails between 2011 in 2017. Committing nearly 600,000 crimes ranking from salt i wish there were nearly 70000 to over 6000 violent sexual assaults of women and children. In homicides which numbered nearly 1200, all preventable. These are only a sampling of heinous crimes committed. The department of Homeland Security reports that two out of three of these crimes were committed by aliens here illegally. Those who falsely stated great border wall would not work either dont know the history or our interim to nile. To the doubters and deniers i can assure you a wall will work. Today where walls exist crossings have been reduced by 94 . And there is on the yuma sector arrest of crossings dwindled from over 100 30,000 to just over 8300. Those who escape dwindled to a minimal number compared to the hundreds of thousands who evaded arrest in previous years. Your Honorable Committee men and women, all stew work. It has dire consequences, if not built when another open borders president is elected the technological deterrence and allimportant army Border Agents will be reduced or entirely removed, allowing this holocaust of american killings to resume. Not just to your constituents but to all americans to preserve our sovereign nation and keep communities safe but first and foremost to securing the borders and was permanently separate families from their loved ones not one more still alive. Thank you, god bless you and god bless america. Thank you. You are up for five minutes. Thank you for inviting me here today. I was born in budapest hungary and i was two when my family left as refugees. We emigrated to brazil where we lived trying to apply to come to the United States. My parents, my brother and myself immigrated to the United States and we followed all of the rules and the law. We followed all of these investigations and thorough medical exams by the council that appointed and approved doctors we also have character witnesses testing we have good moral standing and my father was required to have a job contract. April 27 marks my sons anniversary of his murder. Ronald was my firstborn, my only son. His father my first husband was a Brazilian National and was a respectful and loving practical joker sometimes that he hoped my parents and he was a good big brother to his sisters. He was always there when anyone needed his help. He went to visit his children up while standing in the driveway he was shot, a bullet intended for someone else. The shooter had a long criminal record and had been immediately after the shooting fled to mexico. Im afraid california wont notify them of the standing release. It took me almost 11 years to find out he had a hold. He would still be here along with thousands of innocent victims killed. Many criminal illegals deported return. One life lost is too many. We need a barrier and a wall. His murder devastated my family. Due to the overwhelming he died the following day only four months after ronald was murdered. My brother was married to my sisterinlaw from mexico and the devastated them. My father gave up nothing. He wanted to die to be with ronald, his first grandchild. It took an 11 years of suffering, my mother trying to be so hard and strong. She was our rock but i could see the pain in her eyes. She is in heaven now and they are together. My son, father, brother and other. Ive never seen my husband a more highly educated man retired chief when my son died so helpless watching the panic and pain, there was nothing that he could do to undo or fix what happened. He was the one to call me at the campground i was camping with my daughters with girl scouts who told me he was shot in the shoulder and expected to survive. We immediately drove home and he hugged me and said im sorry. I told him i was going to the hospital to be with ronald us when he came out of surgery he would be a loan. He said im sorry, he didnt make it. Now i live a life sentence of pain and suffering wondering what would ronald look like, what he had gray hair at age 44, would he be married, what would he be doing i miss his beautiful smile and his heart and sense of humor, our talks. I miss his voice and his assent. I miss family gettogethers with all of us present. My family is permanently broken and separated. I cant travel anywhere in the world to see him again. I will miss all that was taken from me all because of broken open borders. I miss watching him i earned his clothes and stand a long time fixing his hair but what i but e most is hidden calling me mommy. I miss everything. I simply miss my son. All i have left are his clothing, photographs, baby shoes, baby bottles, toys and memories. I liv live with an emptiness ina hole in my heart longing for my son and the fear of losing another child or family member. We cannot afford to lose one more life. Ronald is just one life. His death is not an isolated case. A murder couple days after ronald in a neighboring town, the murder also fled to mexico and also had been previously deported. His widow and i became friends and we would compare our pain, hurt and grief and cry together. Together. Officer johnston a coworker of my husband was shot by someone who overstayed his visa and he died of his injuries. Hundreds of victims and innocent lives. I wonder how many more are there that we dont know about because the government doesnt keep statistics on illegal alien crime. What an overall problem it is for the nation that so many u. S. Citizens were killed on a daily basis by illegal aliens who shouldnt be in the country to begin with. When i became a u. S. Citizen, the first president i voted for was president Ronald Reagan who signed an amnesty bill to be securing the borders and enforcing immigration laws within the country including rights to employment. These things have never been done and the conditions have gotten worse every year. The irony is my family and i emigrated to the United States and an illegal murdered my son who should have never been in the country to begin with. I urge you to do with so many politicians have promised for years, secure border eliminate the incentives for illegal aliens to come here and enforcement of existing immigration laws. It is too late for my son ronald and those held by illegal aliens but there are so many lives can be saved if he would take action and put americans first. Our President Donald Trump deserves more respect. Hes working so hard to protect the country and constitution. He illegal aliens have no constitutional rights. A country without a border is no country. You may say that its inhumane to deport illegal aliens who didnt care about breaking our laws. How inhumane is it that my son ronald and thousands of innocent victims lives were cut short . Its the responsibility of the government to keep us safe, and President Trump is working to accomplish that. Please do not stand in his way. Work with him. Thank you for your time. You are up for five minutes. Thank you. Representative, cherry and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to testify today to present my views on the administrations proposed wall across the usmexico border. Ive been on this issue for a while and served in the Homeland Security positions in both the Bush Administration as well as the Obama Administration and in my view, the proposal to build a wall across the entire usmexico border is deeply misguided. Congress should not support it. Building a wall would be a massive waste of billions of taxpayers dollars and would get very little in return. It wont help us address any of the most pressing challenges we face at the border. In fact it will make us less safe. This is for several reasons. First, it attacks the wrong problem the fear that america is somehow being overwhelmed by massive numbers of mexican economic migrants seeking to cross the rio grande to take our jobs. This is an old outdated talking point from the 90s while of course it implements still occurs the reality is the Border Patrol by three engines are historical lows. Its true that in the 1990s the border was out of control with illegal entries from mexico approaching 2 million a year but since then weve strengthened enforcement and brought far greater control to the border. We tripled the size of the Border Patrol is the point arial droughts and yes, we have constructed hundreds of miles of fence on the strategic locations mostly in urban areas like the fence in san diego. This Enforcement Effort has been extraordinarily successful taking a harder and more expensive for people to cross. It only tells part of the story. The important point is that mexico is changing dramatically. Mexico has grown into the worlds 11th largest economy in the partners there are good jobs in mexico and people are saying to take them. What is the result of all of them according to the Research Center more mexicans believe the United States to head north in the bordeandborder apprehensione lowest in decades. With overall apprehensions about 75 less than the High Water Mark of 2001 when people are represented by the border patr patrol. This congress and administration of both parties have beaten securing the borders have paid off. The border with mexico is much more secure than ever before. Now, this is not to suggest we dont have pressing challenges at the border. We do. Unfortunately the wall isnt going to help us address them. It will not make us more secure. There is little evidence of terrorists seeking to enter the United States on the southwest border. One of the reasons is close partnerships in mexico. So we can spot a known or suspected terrorists before we get here. Far away from southwest border to fight for the wall plac the s the Security Partnership with mexico and it will make the American People less safe. Second, the wall will not stem the flow of Illegal Drugs and this is the reason for the most part they are smuggled into the country in the thousands of cars and trucks that enter our ports of entry. No one is proposing. It wont stop drugs from being smuggled by aircraft. They dont wander across the desert for this mexico produces its cooperation with the dea in retaliation for the effort to build the wall it will be more difficult to build cases against the key figures or locate them for arrest in mexico and finally all will not help us this the challenge we face that stems from the crisis of Central America with thousands of guatemalan and hunger and families fleeing violence and environmental crises in coming to the border to seek asylum. Most of the migrants are coming to the ports of entry are voluntarily turning themselves into Border Patrol agents. Under the u. S. International law we cant just build a wall and bounced him off we must allow the plans t planes to be heard e immigration towards end of the wall will be channeled the ports of entry and it wont prevent them from coming in in the first place that isnt going to help the pressing challenges we face at the border. In the 1970s, the senator handed out what he called the wasteful spending. I cant think of any program that would make similar crossfire more proud than the border wall. The ultimate Golden Fleece of american taxpayers with buildings need for billions going to contractors to build a wall that will provide no security benefit to the people. The republican representative as well building the wall is the most expensive and least effective way to secure the border. That is sad enough that even more, the effort to build the wall will divert resources away from measures that would actually help the border. The immigration system is indeed in a crisis running from the flow of Central America since i asylum seekers. We need more resources devoted to addressing this challenge and the question to give m give my s on that but suffice it to say the wall wasnt going to help or will it make us safer from terrorism or organized crime. Its a bad idea and i Hope Congress does not support it. I will now recognize myself for five minutes. One of the frustrating things with this issue is its been failure here in this country for over 30 years. I mean, mr. Judd, you mentioned, the amnesty we are going to do an amnesty to secure the border, no more ilLegal Immigration that will be a thing of the past and a Legal Immigration quadrupled between then and now in terms of the numbers that are here. In 1996 when we were supposed to have an entry exit visa system implemented, and that is different than the wall but there are millions of people who come here legally and overstayed their visa. To this day we do not have an entry exit visa system and then in 2006 with the support of people like hillary clinton, chuck schumer, joe biden, Congress Overwhelmingly passed the secure fence act which is supposed to provide 700 miles of double layered fencing and areas that have been very effective and get congress immediatel immt to do that for next year we had i think 36 miles total. So weve got to get it right. We have been toiling with this for decades. Lets get it right. Now, mr. Php example of san diego suggests that if you do effective mr. Camarota, that the majority of the estimates es are you agreethat you agree youy conservative estimate about how they wall of how much ilLegal Immigration it would prevent. I think that it is. The experience with walls as they do work where they are but people are not allowed to go around them and there are overstays which is a very important question but yes they were quite effectively that is for sure. The strain on the taxpayer, the medical costs borne by the taxpayer easily write, does that often happen people go to Emergency Rooms or otherwise free clinics where that is a big area of cost . We spend about 17,000 on each child in the United States very roughly and it ma in the baby on electronic rent children in the schools. And Law Enforcement people see people who come in illegally dont necessarily commit a crime and i dont know if that is true thabut even if it is, that is taxing more impressive because those are people that the border with secure that Law Enforcement has to worry about at all, correct . The data is all over the place on it. It isnt clear whether they have a higher crime rate, but i think that as we have heard today that isnt the point. If someone isnt even supposed to be in a country and because someone, that is clearly preventable and i think that is what frustrates the American People so much. Now yonow your study doesntn take into account of them on Economic Cost associated with having the border in allowing ilLegal Immigration. Drugs, Human Trafficking obviously there is a crime as we have seen that isnt reflected up at all in your study. I didnt include the cost for the children of Illegal Immigrants. So i think for the victims we see there is a cost that goes back with that. So you think that your study is probably conservative in terms of the number of illegal entries that it could prevent but its also a conservativ conservativef some of the benefit because you would be talking about drugs and crime and reducing other bad things associated with having the porous border is that fair . A lot of the things you cant put a dollar amount on. In terms of paying for it, are there ways whether senator cruise suggested by the drug as with many which is billions and billions of dollar dollars and s have said to take some of the illegally obtained refundable tax credits by the seven or 8 billion so do you agree that there are ways that money can be identified used that dont necessarily involve just having the american taxpayer pay for it directly . Yes and he mentioned also the tax remittances that flow out of the United States of tens of billions of dollars. Put a tax on them and you could generate billions of dollars as well. I think you agree when you have areas where the barriers have been effective obviously the bread and butter will still be you guys out there but it is a force multiplier because one of your agents can then cover a much larger territory if you do have that barrier is that right . It is estimated all we need is one agent per three or four linear miles. Without the barrier i need one agent per mile, so the cost effectiveness of the barrier and manpower is extremely successf successful. We absolutely need to look at where we need to put the wall and it will allow us to be more effective. And the secure fence act of 700 miles out of the 2,000 d. Think that makes sense and is bad enough i dont think anyone is saying you need 2,000. I do in fact. The chief recently came out and said the exact same thing ive been saying for two years that we needed the strategic locations and again that 700 miles is about what it is. You were a critic of the Tax Relief Program is that fair to say . Yes. So you can do all those things and if there is an administration in power that ties your hands behind your back than you could have the best of intentions but it would be difficult to get the problem right is that accurate . It is and what is frustrating is to cross the border at a place other than the port of entry. That is the crime. When we see these individuals, what we are effectively doing in the catch and release program, we are driving these organizations in and in synthesizing them to allow these individuals to cross the border at places other than the ports of entry. Every single one of these individuals could legally present themselves at the ports oportof entry but its the smugs who are forcing them to cross in places other than the point of entry which then put extreme pressure on us, and it takes people out which then opens up holes and allows the smugglers to bring across even higher cost value such as heroin and potentially even people from middle eastern countries, so it is a huge problem. So you think in terms of the issues of drugs you think that theyre coming across illegally and that is a major issue. I know they are and in fact if we think that more drugs are coming across the ports of entry we are absolutely wrong. All you have to do is pull agents out of the field and that is the smugglers are doing by crossing these family units that are coming over here and asking for a silent. What we are doing is allowing them to bring across a higher value products such as heroin. Thank you for your testimony. This is something that is very personal to you to get this border under control, correct . Absolutely. And i think you said before you would be happy to take your own shovel and worked to build it even in the 120degree heat. I was just going to say that, yes, id be happ i would be hapd work on the wall myself. I know it isnt feasible but trust me, i would be there. And that is because you dont want to see anyone else in your shoes when they . Never. Its such a pain. Its so difficult especially on days like today i dont even wish it upon those that killed my son i dont wish this pain on his family. That is how painful. You would think that i would wish him a lot of harm, i dont. Nobody should have to suffer through Something Like this because if my son would have been sick i would have resigned myself that it was his time to go, but my sons life was covertly taken. You also mentioned in her testimonyourtestimony an issue l have to come to add a different hearing i think that your sons murder is in prison and will eventually get out. You are worried that california may not notify. We have had jameel from california, you probably know him and they were involved in criminal activity released by the state and then murder. We had casey, her mother here last year where there was a guy from haiti who served a sentence for manslaughter and 12 or 13 years. They didnt send him back and then he killed casey so that will be an issue that we will have to get right. If you know someone already served a sentence and they are not here legally releasing them into society to me that the American People at a grave risk so you are right to be concerned if we want to work with you to make sure that the states are working so we are not letting dangerous people out. Ive gone over my time and i will give indulgences to my friend from california and i will recognize him now. Thank you mr. Chairman. To the degree you can help us with this and your members would be wonderful if we could get going the passion involved not to put words in your mouth but your original testimony to depoliticize as much as possible having spent a good deal of time when i was in the state legislature in california researching public works projects as any project over a billion dollars, there are just those thoughts with concerns from an implementation standpoint. Your point about where it is, so it would be my wish that perhaps as an opportunity for us and as a nonpartisan way to get just the engineering from the Security Experts that best return on investment and i the n that regard it has to be at least considered where the money will come from and whether it will come from other parts of Homeland Security or the nih because we havent invested their. That is an overall context. First, with unanimous consent to enter into the record the report that was referenced so i would like to enter that into the record. Having a Good Relationship and then being from california is a Governors Office and attorney general and other it is appropriate i would buy to work with the chairman and so we communicate appropriately. With the difference is appropriate i would be happy to. You have a lot of experience in this field and as i said earlier the public works projects are going to need that Risk Assessments and the engineers to do their jobs you get the experts that after input and this is realizing the think tanks. We are at the position right now for the fact there would be cost overruns and we know that for a fact. We know that whether it is 15 billion, we have no idea what it would actually cost. What i do know is the way to secure the border is to have the right blend of Different Things would be Border Patrol personnel, Technology Centers and groans, also investigations as well. Human Smuggling Networks and facilitators of those networks. You have to have a blend of all of them and this is just onesizefitsall to put a wall across the southern border except the point of entry so lets not forget the ports of entry int and the stuff that cos in. My comment is just a dispassionate analysis of Law Enforcement. Has there been any Due Diligence done . It is something that needs to be done. We need to get the Border Patrol and others together to sort of think through what is the right blend for any area. Having served both with bush and obama it could be that additional fencing is required in certain areas of strategic location that did a world of good in san diego certainly dont the idea of putting a wall across the entire border i think without further analysis is misguided. With regards to ilLegal Immigration and drug enforcement, Homeland Security john kelly stated a threat against aviation keeps me awake at night. President trump has proposed cutting the transformation including the program that supports local police in airports and the other quote i would like you to respond to is charles ray of the coast guards Deputy Commander of operations that stated as the result of the lack of resources last year we were prevented from getting over the smuggling offense and they made their way north so could you respond to those . When it comes to tsa i am the first to admit that certainly tsa requires evaluation to determine where spend that money. The reduction of expenditure on the inservice transportation is loss. Just a concluding comment, and you can speak to this with more expertise, it is always dangerous for us in elected office, irrespective a party to jump to conclusions about criminality and how to stop it. That needs to be evidencebased. We have bipartisan agreement on that. I would suggest this is one of the opportunities driven by evidencebased research in addition to the engineering. Thank you. I ask unanimous consent to wave on mr. From wisconsin. He wanted to participate without objection. The chair will recognize mr. Comber for five minutes. Thank you. I have to say that during the twoweek recess i spent the time traveling the district, have a very wide and rural district. Six hours from east to west in my district in southern kentucky. I had ten town halls and meetings and conversations with people in the wall always came up. There is overwhelming support my district to build the wall. That is something people expect to get done in the near future. I had a couple of questions first for mr. John, with the border wall have mitigated the terrible opiate epidemic we are seeing sweep across america . Especially my district in kentucky . It will, we will then dictate were illegal border crossings take place. , criminal gang members have crossed into the u. S. In the past five years . Do you think the border wall could have reduce that number . I dont think i could, i know it could. When we catch individuals who are asking for asylum one of the biggest problems we face is when we have them in the detention facility there actually recruiting while theyre in our custody their recruiting other individuals to join her gains. Thats an extreme concern. I saw manys paper the Senate Democrats assume a per mile cost of 36. 6 million per mile, do you agree with that cost estimate . Im i dont know what the cost will be but what i can tell you is 9 11 cost the government trillions of dollars. 1 billion is a drop in the bucket is compared to what happened to 9 11. Thats a concern of every taxpayer and every person who has any type of conservatism is the cost. When you look at the total cost, will all areas of the southern board require new fencing as some of the opponents have claimed . It will. To build a proper wall im an advocate of fencing and it was a bipartisan up effort that passed that. The problem with fencing is it is debatable. I can bring up a welding torch and cut a hole in fact thats what happens. I have a brother is a Border Patrol agent who spent two years and all he did every day was patch holes in the fence. So wall cannot be defeated the way fence can. What other factors in this is for anyone on the panel, what other factors could have an impact on the total cost . Are the things that can be done to build the wall cheaper to where we still have maximumsecurity impact or what other factors would impact the cost . Or could impact the cost . One of the key questions is what are the most vital areas. Parts of the border are not likely to become major smuggling routes for individuals. We dont need a wall or even a lot of fencing, maybe just a vehicle barrier. I certainly dont think we need a giant wall across the whole border. My position is that there are places where a wall and fencing are vitally important and we dont have been. We have authorized it in the past and that seems crazy to me. Thats where we should start at the least. To address your question, one of the things ive been impressed with and this is not trying to take a political stance. Im independent myself. One thing i been impressed with his ive had the opportunity to meet with President Trump on four occasions. Ive talked to him specifically about this issue and he has come in with preconceived notions but one thing i have been impressed with is as a businessman he has been willing to listen to the experts and what theyve had to say. What his ultimate decision will become i dont know. Ive had the opportunity to let him know it is not too thousand miles worth of walls its strategic locations in his been open to that. Im hoping thats where he goes. That will drive the cost way down. And to add to that, the unpredictable factors of how you construct a wall or fencings environmental issues, privately scum litigation, i think in any big project we cannot be talking about how long is can the cost and how long its gonna take because of other factors. Ive had a huge concern about the property aspect of it so i would agree. My time is up. Thank you. We now recognize mr. For five minutes. Thank you. Thank you for having this very important hearing. I want to say to miss give any how sorry i am for your loss. I am the mother of three sons and i cannot imagine what it would be like to not have those hugs and talks and interaction with them. Im so sorry for your loss. I spent 27 years in lawenforcement. At the Orlando Police department. I can tell you is a 27 year veteran that i worked my share of homicides, aggravated assaults, rapes, child molestation, kidnappings, more than i care to admit. And i wish that i could have simply put up a wall to stop it. Because i would have done that. Question that came up earlier but i can also tell you without hesitation is that the overwhelming majority of the people we arrested in those cases were not undocumented immigrants. And so, the Ranking Member is correct that we do as we keep america safe it is my number one priority, we have to be careful that we are not generalizing a Certain Group of people from certain place. If we are committed to doing this correctly. Mr. Jott i want to thank you for your service. This is not a political issue, certainly not for me. Going to believe that it is not for you. You talked about how important effective border barriers areas are. Just to clear up this for me in my mind, candidate trump when he talked about the wall said it is going to be hard and concrete made out of rebar and steel. And that is not the wall that you support, is that correct . Actually i absolutely support a wall that is not defeasible. This well made out of steel, rebar . It has to be a wall that cannot be defeated by welding torches. We face that problem on a daily basis. So it has to be an impenetrable wall. So you is would support a wall that was 2000 miles of concrete wall. Made out of steel and rebar . No, i support a wall in strategic locations would jewel allow us to dictate where illegal border crossings take place. And who are you referring to . The United StatesBorder Patrol. Mr. I understand that you have worked on border issues and the department of Homeland Security for 15 years under two administrations. Thank you so much for your services well. You stated that we have greatly improved our Border Security against most pressing threats to Public Safety and closing terrorism, and we have established for greater control over ilLegal Immigration are southwest quarter than at any other time over the last four decades. Can you explain, in more detail i dont think we can talk about it enough how we have greatly improved our Border Security. So what has changed. What do we not have four decades ago that we not do. What i can speak to us when i served in the Bush Administration in the years after 9 11 and in the Obama Administration theres been a bipartisan consensus both in the administration and congress to strengthen border enforcement. Weve tripled the size of the Border Patrol. We have deployed sensors, aerial drones across the border. We have put fences, secure fences and importance secured locations. Are more fences needed . I dont doubt it. Thats a question for the local border and to determine in their areas what the right technology and infrastructure really is. The other thing is ice, has become far more effective in going after human smuggling organizations than their financial facilitators. Investigative are very strong. Number one, with regard to mexican immigration think in terms of the undocumented population in the United States which is declining. Around 11 people not down from 12,000,010 years ago. Less than half is mexican. That population is not mostly bs overstates. Less than half of the mexican population and it is declining. The numbers of people coming across the board with were apprehending about 400,000 people across the border every year down from a. 6 million in the Bush Administration and 9 11. Half of those are from Central America. Central americans were coming up in those either represented by the Border Patrol or by the Field Operations most of them are claiming asylum because they are fleeing violence or fleeing other difficulties in Central America or have been told to do so by the smugglers. Some are legitimate some are not all are entitled to a day in court if they pass a credible fear screening about 90 to. What i would say is that we have become farmer effective at policing the flow of people from mexico. Mexico has changed economically somewhere people are staying home if your people are coming. We still have Serious Problems and that is Central America. That is straining our resources because people are claiming asylum but theres a backlog Center Immigration courts. Thats what causes ice to release them into the United States pending their claims. If we are to spend the first billion dollars in border enforcement will be going toward the immigration courts to staff the courts so we can process asylum claims so we dont have tab people for the length of five or seven years it takes often to process a claim. I would send a message to the smugglers to say this is not a free pass to the United States. Thank you so much. And thank you for the additional time. You mentioned asylum. Do you think that Congress Needs to relook at how some of the statues operate so we can not incentivize so many people commit to make claims that are not meritorious. I think the way the system works is that kids who come on a company dont have to go through the credible fear screening. Theyre coming from Central America not mexico. The issue of whether credible fear should be looked at is a tricky question. The stakes of being wrong in determining someone does not have credible fear can result in circumstances of someone going back to el salvador or honduras and being killed. The stakes are high in terms of how we think about that test. Having said that the statistics are people coming from el salvador and honduras come about 95 make it through credible fear screening. Leme recommends mr. Duncan for five minutes. Thank you for the great job you do chairing the subcommittee. Let me say i have noticed some members of the congress amended of these saturday night comedians try to make jokes about the wall, its not much of a joke to come is it . No, it is not. I dont see whats funny about it because they have not been affected personally, if they were they would think differently also. I wish everybody couldve heard your testimony. Ive always heard the worst thing that can never happen to his style of one of your children. And that certainly you have our condolences. He said this, some people imply that if we try to enforce our immigration laws it is cruel or something is wrong with it, but i noticed in some of the staff material the president of israel said President Trump is right, i built around and it stopped ilLegal Immigration, Great Success and great idea. Somehow he can do it and not be criticized but if we try to do it theres something wrong with that. Also in the material ive been given from the staff they said that it works in certain strategic locations and i think that makes a lot of sense to me. The material we have been given says that just before they built the first wall in san diego there were 700,000 apprehensions in this last euros down to 31000. The wall has been very effecti effective. The situation is this, there are two statistics that tell the whole story with only 4 of the worlds population we by almost 22 of the worlds give goods. We have a standard of living far beyond what anybody else has. You can shared by hundreds of billiards or even a couple billion want to come here. And then the second is 58 of the people in the world have to get by with 4 or less per day. Most people here dont realize how fortunate we are. Can understand why so many want to come here and we sympathize with these people. Americans are the kindest, gentlest, most sympathetic people in the world. We cannot open our borders and taken everybody wants to come because her hospitals, jails, our sewers, our schools, roads are infrastructure and our economy, we cannot handle the rapid influx of people that would come here. There is no other country that faces the problem we face to the extent that we face it. Its not cruel is just common sense. The staff says theres a reason National Academy for science study estimated the net fiscal dream of each illegal crosser was 74722. Are you familiar with that . What the National Academy did was calculate the jury or fiscal benefit by education for each immigrant. So i applied that to the skill level of Illegal Immigrants to come up with an estimate of how big it would be. So i looked at how it would be with the illegals. And also we been provided with figures that the irs is planning out billions of improper payments through the use of an refundable tax credits. Have you looked at that . Particularly the refundable portion of the tax credit. The irs made the determination that they could pay that out and they would have to worry about illegal status. Theyre paying hundreds of millions if not billions out to Illegal Immigrants. Its also the case that they pay some out in the earned and income tax credit. For years weve seen this that 11 million almost everyone i talked to estimates that its way more than that. We really liked it 20 or 30 million tell me what you feel is the accurate most accurate figure in that regard. Its important to recognize its illegal and difficult to measure. There is a margin affair. Youre asking me think it is 10 12000000. Could it be higher . Yes. But the way we arrive at that is we know about how many Illegal Immigrants there should be and then we look at the data that identifies immigrants in the we subtract that i would get a residual. That number is about 10,000,070 think maybe were missing 10 based on other research. It could be 20 but you can see how doesnt get up to 20 million. Im going to argue that because we argue what the data shows us about School Enrollment are about birth, it lines up with administrative data. I think those estimates are right. How many billions have we allowed to immigrate here legally over the last 50 years . The total form born is about 46 million today in 2017 about ten or 12 of that is illegal. About 33 million of the people present in the United States. Some become citizens. No other country in the world has even come close to allow people to immigrate here illegally like we have. Thank you the chair now recognize our guests from wisconsin for five minutes. I was going to do a follow up. Youre confident, how long is that 11 million figure been out there . How long a fire rescue or someone in your position how many people here legally . We think its been around that number for eight years. Every year we take the American Community survey of the Current Population survey tried estimated. Think the general estimate is around 8 million. I would ask you some questions as raise the overall cost. Is there any estimate about the amount of money were paying every year for healthcare for people who are here illegally. Do you want to count usborn children are just the Illegal Immigrants. A lot are signed up for medicaid so that would be a big cost. It several billion dollars a year for treatment of the uninsured. The illegal population makes up a large share of the uninsured. Says like 5 billion . Yes. I know its difficult to get records, are there any estimates to agree to which income based transfer payments are going . I hear anecdotal evidence from income maintenance in our district that theyre getting people illegal coming here. We have an estimate on the total amount . Que . Que stionmark we do have some estimates. Remember in illegal immigrant can collect benefits on behalf of usborn child. If we include that the numbers runs over 10 billion. If you count things like the u. S. Foreign child on medicaid. The family can get food stamps even though the parents are illegal because the food stamps come in the name of the usborn children. Theres a lot of that going on. So are there a lot of people even adult signing up for benefits who may not be citizens . Sure. There a lot of legal immigrants who also access the welfare system. Legal immigrants make extensive. How much . We know from the survey of income and Program Participation they pretty well identify themselves as illegal based on questions. Than half of all households headed by Illegal Immigrants have someone signed up for some kind of benefit. Typically the noncash program. Can you give me a total amount . Total amount that you look immigrants are receiving income transfers, cash, noncash . That would be well over 10 billion, most from the federal government. And most going to u. S. Citizens ultimately. Well it depends on how you view it. If you family getting food stands the parents can be themselves on those food stamps. The family lives in Public Housing because that one usborn children which is allowed than the parents are benefiting. But most systems dont cut off children from welfare benefits. Thats right thats why they can use those programs. Its hard to get the numbers. To know how many people in local jails and prisons are Illegal Immigrants . To have hard numbers on that . Incomplete numbers. Substantial . When i hear talking to people from these facilities they think its a significant situation even in wisconsin. But do you have any. The federal government is pain out lots of money already. That might be a place to begin to look at what share of inmates. You know what the joke incentives and other countries around the world. I know is less than the u. S. Does anybody know the age of consent is in mexico . Mr. Stiles you been involved for quite a while do you know. No to make it shocking. Well, obviously when we have people coming from another culture its important we adapt our culture. How long were you involved in this that you dont know this . The age of consent in mexico has never been presented to me. I know the age of consent in the United States is 18. It varies from state to state but yes, 18 in some areas, 16 is others. Is at age 12 the many parts of mexico . Do you view that is a potential problem when people come to this country and theyre coming from country in which the age of consent is 12. Should people talk about that are be educated about that . Was the relevance of it what you drive in a . Im just saying. For a lawenforcement standpoint absolutely. Were taking people into our country. People are coming into our country who have a different set of rules and are trying to take those set the rules and apply them in the United States when that is wrong. Were talking about illegal acts. Were not talking about ilLegal Immigration. When they come to the United States and thats way our guests are here today. These individuals come from countries such an enforcer loss in the come to the United States because they were allowed to break our law they can break any law amperage perpetrate more crimes. To see a danger people coming to this country who dont know what our laws are with regards to the age of consent and may think the laws in this country are the same as laws and other countries. For those of us who care about women and young girls my view that as a concern. We do. I have to look at is what happened in the school in virginia where the young girl was raped by two people who cross the border illegally who are ultimately released under the catch and release program. Thats why am so against that program. We see people who break our laws willfully then try to apply their set of rules that they brought from their country into our own country. That creates a drain on lawenforcement. Not just a physical drain but during on the victims. I do want to state that not enforcing our laws encourages more breaking of the loss. We certainly do not want to import more crime. I dont think theres evidence to indicate that kids under the age of 18, whatever age of consent in the country make them more or less likely to make crimes. The date is not there. One thing ill say about the age of consent that is important to think about is with regard to the unaccompanied minors were coming here. Theyre under 18 coming unaccompanied. Im will pass my time in the german has indulged me. I will say, it concerns me that people are not being informed on our culture and our laws are who are coming here from other countries think its perfectly okay to have sex with a 13yearold if thats a culture there coming out. The gentlemens time has expired. I will request myself for five minutes. Mr. John is been reported theres been a dramatic drop in the past couple months do you think thats because of the Trump Administration . It is. When we interviewed the individuals currently crossing the border they know the laws are going to be enforced. The simple promise that the law is going to be enforced have driven down. I must warn you, we are in a honeymoon. We have to enforce laws or its going to go back up. Whats interesting is conditions havent changed in Central America, just more of your people come. What that reminds us is that migration is a choice. Peoples lives might be difficult the fact is they make a choice to call. Please have a change. People say people are compelled to come they dont have options. But just the president s rhetoric mostly has affected peoples behavior. Imagine if we follow it up with policy. Is too soon to make a judgment. Crime on the border, a real problem. Its a huge problem. If you look at Border Patrol agents, we are assaulted at a rate higher than any other lawenforcement agency in the entire United States. So border crime is a huge issue. I think was mentioned the cartel leaders are not crossing the border, does that mean the cartels are not a major problem on the border . When i joined the Border Patrol 97 we had momandpop smuggling organization. That doesnt happen anymore. Every facet of crime is controlled by very dangerous cartels. Pathologically dangerous. No regard for human life whatsoever. Unfortunately that is spilling over into the United States. The operate in the United States now where is they did not do that 20 years ago. Let me ask you this, to agree that there clearly a number of immigrants who have a very positive Economic Impact on our society . Especially in the fiscal area must educated are definitely fiscal benefit pay more in taxes than the used in services. That doesnt describe the typical Illegal Immigrants. So that doesnt describe those coming to the illegal channels. Our laws and people come here illegally or not to be a public charge they have to spur themselves. Its defined in a narrow way so its not that meaningful. Youre talking about people coming through unauthorized channels and a difference between the piece overstate versus the Border Crossers who have less skills. You have seen a variety of these issues are tragedies over many years and you have been an activist. Can you crystallize for us the importance of this issue and how it affects the human lives that you have been able to work with over the years . Thank you. What troubles us most of all of these crimes and killings are preventable. We only deal with the killings of americans. However child molestation and rape is high. You can see the staff in North Carolina and what is troubling is the fact that our own victims, american victims are misguided to the system. And agnes was not allowed to given victims impact statement. Securing the border and enforcing and i am poor border wall just like mr. Judd. I want to say also. To agree that most of the witnesses you dont need to do 2000mile one see you basically do it in areas where sellers will want to crossing. Yes, thats common sense. I dont want this issue to be politicized. Im a former democrat, my father was born in mexico, a bit of Strawberry Fields since i was eight years old. This is not a political issue, when my husband and i started this project we looked at the issue. It was about an officer in houston, texas who was shot by an illegal alien theres a lawsuit brought against the city by his widow who is also Police Officer and that was about sanctuary cities. Never heard of it before, we are not political. Here we are in again, i stress that look at the issue, not just politicize american lives. We have seen so much and i appreciate your time, but i cannot tell you if you we just please look at the issue and focus on keeping america safe. All recognize my friend from california for five minutes. Want to thank you and everybody who joined in, i am more taken by the fact that a lot of what were dealing with her symptoms of a larger problem. That is for the country and for congress to come up with thoughtful immigration policy and reform. In the Global Economy where the world has changed, things have changed. In this country immigration and diversity is the basis of our success in our birth. It has been part of our success ever sense and differentiates us from every other country in the world. Having said that, we need to have immigration policy that protects against the criminality that we have heard about both personally and statistically. I just want to read one quote. Many years ago in congress across the aisle one famously said everybodys allowed their own opinions but not their own facts. For some weird reason we have entered into a time with the facts or not we fight opinions. Maybe this is an opportunity to do what we couldve done on a bipartisan level when it comes to the adjudication process and criminality is to deal with evidencebased research. If you could help us with the knowing of your very strong passions i think we get to the point that the chairman started this committee the failure to come up with the policy that is effective that allows people to come to the country and that people promptly welcomes and want to come here and have opportunity put under conditions to enable those in coming to flourish as they wanted him to. I just want to read one quote. We get into these dueling perspectives and costs. From New York TimesMagazine Article that basically corroborating from comments and research. It went on to say there many ways to debate immigration but when it comes to economics theres a much of a debate at all. Nearly all agree that immigrants, those legally or not benefit the overall economy and that is not controversial. He goes on to quote that says, there is a consensus that on average the incomes of families in this country are increased by strong but clearly positive amount when it comes from immigration. Maybe this is an opportunity in this hearing that all of us can focus on the real issue we recognize that immigration is a great benefit to this country and as a basis for the country success. In california theres research that shows why were the six largest economy and its because word the most reflective Global Economy. We have to get policy right so statistically there reduce. With that i would think you and hope this is an opening of a new chapter in a bipartisan effort to put our efforts was most effective. We now recognize mr. Heiss for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman. Let me begin with you, how did the construction of the multilayer border fence in san diego and 96 impact illegal entry into the area . It moved it to tucson arizona and was a huge impact. What i can tell you is that everywhere we have built the fence we have been affected. The been effective in controlling where it takes place which allows me to be more effective in the number of illegal aliens i take into custody. Do you have any ideas how many apprehensions that have been, the difference from before the wall was built in san diego. Yes, the high watermark was the late 90s and early 2000s. San diego was a fairly busy place. After the arrows were built the ilLegal Immigration drop to next to nothing in san diego and it all moved out to locations where there were not physical barriers. You can verify this for me. In 1996 prior to the barrier there were 480,000 apprehensions in 1996. Most recent figures 2016 there were under 32000. That is over 93 decrease. That is largely do to lawenforcement posture in san diego. We do not take that same posture on the other sectors such as tucson arizona so we joe everything out there. Since we have been taking this. What are some of the other question i realize we cant quantify the effectiveness totally with the layered wall that is built. Theres no doubt the correlation the numbers have dropped drastically since its put in place. But other measures have been taken in san diego . The most important measures was not only did we build the barriers, we promised anybody who across in that corridor to detain them and keep them in custody and would hold them until they had their deportation hearings. Another locations there wasnt space and would walk out our door and let them go and hope they would show up for the immigration hearing years to on the road. But we use the consequent Delivery System which then anybody who crossed through the quarter we would put through deportation proceedings. Let me ask you, to believe that a border wall would help us address the issue of Human Trafficking . Yes. In key places could could make an enormous difference. It would help us interdict trafficking. Im not sure i understand. Have you brought this up in discussions you had in the southwest border specifically with the issue of Human Trafficking . Agents have spoken to all like mr. Jed seems to feel strongly about while being helpful. Be a just illegal individuals are Drug Trafficking gains, you believe it would be helpful across the board . May come back to come as far as elementary with what is happened in san diego and your experiences overall, one of other technologies could be implemented in addition to physical barrier . I worked in the busiest sector, individually i ran a team of agents, we were resting hundred illegal aliens the night. Hundred people per night. Those 100 people, 300 were getting away from us. Just because that is what the number of people coming across. When we started to play technology with drones and technology and scope trucks that had radar on them and we became more effective we shifted the ilLegal Immigration to other places that didnt have it. What i do not tell use it has to be comprehensive. We cant shift the burden to different sectors. I get that. But youre talking everything from drones to virtual walls. All of the above are necessary. I appreciate it. Gentleman yields back to thank you for your testimony is very much appreciated. Couple of things i think we got from the hearing were not talking about a 2000mile wall. Will be finishing the job of the 2006 secure fence act and those could be a force multiplier and it can reduce burden on the backend and reduce crime which is very important. We also saw the crime victims have stories to tell. The tragedy is that federal government is partly responsible. That upsets me and you have to do better. This committee is going to monitor the cost, we do not want to waste money this can be done creatively where youre not appropriate in money but actually using some of these that are running amok and that would be a better way to do it. And then physical security you have to support you the Border Patrol. You have to have good policy so people know the laws in force. And you have to deal with this issue of people who are convicted, criminals being released back into society. We cannot allow additional crimes to be committed. We see the time and again. I appreciate everybodys time and testimony. Will be an issue we continue to deal with. This hearing stands adjourned. Nonoaud nonoaud nonoaud nonoaud nonoaud nonoaud nonoaud nonoaud nonoaud