Welcome to the 11th annual san antonio book festival. And i feel really good being one of the original gangsters of this thing. Havent been around for all 11 years. So thank you all for turning out. My my name is im the editor in chief of monthly and im proud to be the first of those in the magazines 50 years to live in san antonio. Thank you. Yeah, and its my honor today to moderate a discussion with with Mary Beth Rogers who is famous for a number of things she is a several time author. She has written a book called cold anger about texas politics. Shes written an acclaimed biography of black pioneering congresswoman barbara jordan, and she also wrote a book in the fantasy genre called turning texas blue. Yes, its exactly correct on that she is probably best known as the manager of the last winning Democratic Campaign for governor. When ann richards was one of now for the younger among you here, this was back when dinosaurs roamed the earth. Its before some of you were born. But there did used to sometimes be democratic governors. And then after the election, she was chief of staff. And then she, you know, ran the for reelection and has lessons from winning a campaign and a Successful Administration and also lessons from losing one that i think are relevant to our situation today. Her latest book, which well discuss today, which can see right here, is called hope and hard truths a life, texas politics. So please me in welcoming mary mary beth beth. Now, before get started, ive got a few brief housekeeping. First of all, i want to thank the Central Library for making all of the possible. Theyve just been wonderful hosts for all these years. And i also want to thank the hoehn holt family for sponsoring this venue that were in. Please, if you want to share your thoughts on social use the hashtag essay fest. This will be recorded. You can see cameras back there by cspans booktv program. Please your cell phones if you havent already. And flash photography and book sales and signings will be right after we finish in the nowhere ten outside. So im going to ask the way this will go. Im going to ask mary beth a few questions to get the conversation started about her book and her remarkable life in texas politics, and then going to open the floor for questions from you all in the last 10 minutes or so of the session. And when we do that, have people going around with the microphone, please wait for a microphone before you your question. But first to give us a taste of the book. Mary is going to read an excerpt from it. Thank you. Thank you very much, diane. And thank you all for coming in to the folks organized the san antonio book festival. This is a word i used to live in san antonio. My children were born here and i actually learned my politics here in san antonio for good or ill. Okay. And i learned you fight the good fights with people who share you share our common cause. And its wonderful and you love that. And that gives you hope. Keep moving forward. But reality is that you lose a bunch of those good fights and to maintain after those losses and keep going and thats a whole lot of what the book is about. Well, i know that all want to talk texas politics and particularly about ann richards. And if youre interested in texas politics, you know that its always volatile. Its always full of conflict. It has this wild roar. And is that over history allowed only the most ambitious the most ruthless, the wealth is are they outrageous to be elected . But occasionally theres a breakthrough. If we look at our total history, occasionally there will be rare breakthrough. When someone emerge who is able to speak for those have no voice who no opportunity or access to power and influence and richards was one of those breakthrough politicians, first elected state treasurer in 1992. Im sorry in 1982 and then governor in 1990. What we didnt realize at the time was that election 1998 was both the culmination of a relatively moderate progressive period in Texas History and the beginning of its demise. So we talk a little bit about that, but want to start off with a with a personal story. And i want to read you something from the book and the first chapter, which is called theres the girl, and theres a story behind that. How many of you have ever been in the wonderful texas rotunda . And you know its magnificent. And you look around the walls and the first floor and the second floor and there porter its big, huge portraits of all of the former governors of texas. I was standing in the rotunda behind a childrens tour group one afternoon and kids always, you know, the school like schools take their kids to the capitol, the spring to learn about texas and all. And i was standing behind a group of little girls, probably or 11 years old and they were looking around at everything in the in the rotunda and one of the little girls nudged her neighbor and pointed up the rotunda and said, theres a girl. Those of us who think that had an influence on our lives or also need to recognize that her very presence in that rotunda can still be an opening and an opportunity for people to think differently. So this ill start off this thought, this chapter, its a very short reading. So just bear me this on the Election Night in 1990 when ann was elected governor, was i dreaming . I was on a stage in front of a very noisy crowd, packed into an austin hotel ballroom. I struggled to see faces behind the lights that were almost blinding me. I couldnt read the notes that i held tightly in my shaking hands, but i had to do what i had to do so i just blurted it out, introduce myself. And the crowd erupted into cheers and hoots carrying on, not for me. I knew at the time, but for what i knew i was to say so i said it. I said, here she is. Youre new governor of texas. And then they really went wild. It was chaotic, but it was dream. And willis, liberal democrat, divorced, mother of four, recovering alcoholic and pro feminist, had just been elected governor of texas that evening. It was one of those miracles of politics that have from time to time in our history. It was just that no expected this particular woman at this particular time to carry off this particular. But here she came striding into the cheering crowd to the rousing chorus of chariots of fire. Id never seen such joyful chaos and such loud music as her family joined on the stage. I stepped back the podium to give her the total space to enjoy that victory. But she pulled me back, her family huddle to with her as she had always done, starting with her very First Venture into electoral politics. When she became a rather obscure, lowly county commissioner, she wanted to make sure i could share accolades that would come her way. Well, in that moment, i was thrust into a public life in a way that i had never imagined possible so much had happened to get us that point, to that moment only three years earlier on, that exact date in november, my world had been torn. My husband, rogers, the real political in our 27 year marriage, had died. And it was and who had shown up on my doorstep to bring me an urn to hold his ashes so, so much before and after that moment harnessed my career and life to hers. And my life was forever changed. I think you can see where the books going. And because its both personal and political and very much tied up with an but their stories before after is well well thank you for reading that now you up in dallas youve lived in san antone lived here for ten years. You lived in austin. So i think a good place to start would be tell us all the reasons why you like san antonio the best. Well, i was trying tell someone this morning san antonio was a grown up city. Okay you live in austin and i love austin, by the way. I love old austin. But because there are so Many College Students there, the university of texas is such a dominant presence. Its a youthful town. I always like ive moved come into an adult world when i come to san antonio has to do with the tremendous architecture of this very building were in but the people its its always been really interesting to me. The politics in san antonio has always been fascinating. I think it still is what i see from a distance. But its an interesting town. Now you write very vividly in the book about, you know, what we all know about ann richards is that she was a larger than life character, but she had this rare wit and sense of humor and thats, of course, entertaining. But i think of the important points you make is how it allowed her to relate to people and to make people feel that she understood their challenges and understood their hopes. Can you talk a little more about that. Well, i think most of us remember and in love and who was the tough talking haired, cool mama. And she was all of that. But there was a lot of substance to end as and was a serious thinker about and the political world and policy. But ann had a remarkable to relate to people one on one if and were here in this room today and and and phyllis if she introduce herself to you she would focus you she would not be looking over your shoulder to see if there was someone thought might be more important or more advantageous to her or life. She would on you and you would end telling her your story. And then when she got back to the office, she might write you a personal note. Dear phyllis also enjoyed talking to you and im interested in the three camps that youre raising. Whatever. Whatever you happened to tell her, she would remember. She would send you a big a handwritten note with her big, sprawling signature. And she did that to people all over the state in austin. It was lesson because so many people knew her on personal level. When i went to dallas, met new people and they found that id work with and they had a story tell me about and well, when met and she did this or my partner was sick and wrote him a note. I mean there were things like that. So she had personal touch whereas exceptionally rare in a politician and few politicians Strong Enough staffs to be able to do that for them. So i know you knew h. W. Bush. You knew both of them. And i covered him, covered his campaigns and covered his white house. And he was, of course, famous for that same thing of focusing on people, writing those personal notes. Everybody always a story about him. Who in Politics Today in either party in texas nationally reminds the most of ann richards. Lets count how many seconds this is. I wish i had a quick answer for, but i doubt and so unique and authentic and in her sense of herself and in her very being. And you dont find a lot of people, a lot of politicians now theyre kind of programed. I say this for this group or that for that group. And so its hard for someone to break through also. And that spontaneous sense of humor which very few politicians have. And if they do theyre kind of afraid to use it because its not always nice. I was going to say with that of humor, be more dangerous if she were in Politics Today, it might be it it might be. But again, she came up at a time when we didnt have social media and your mistakes were not thrown back that in in a 32nd afterthought. So it might have been more difficult. Now i do think she would have found a way to allow her authentic to come through. Two of the key words in the title of your book, hard truths and as i read it, i felt that a lot of those hard had to do with the sense that you and ann richards and people around you all had, that you weve won a statewide election and we get to do what we want now and not enough consideration for things like the liquor lobby or, you know, the wants and needs of various legislators or, you know, other special interest groups. Can you talk a bit about what you learned there . Well, i think ill start with the hopeful aspects of it, because i think we came up in a period of hope. Women of my generation were the first since the women who who won the right to vote in the suffrage movement. We were the first generation to have opportunity for access to power and influence and to be elected public offices on a statewide basis to build, organize political organizations. So there was a of hope, somewhat optimism, but for hope to survive in dark times, youve got to be rooted in reality. And thats really difficult to do. And when i talk about im not talking about a optimism, oh, everythings going to be all right, because most time everything is not going to be. All right. And but but hope is kind of like a its a survival technique. We hope, because we if we have vision for the future and how it should be, that hope gives us energy to work against all of those obstacles that may be put in our place. You have to understand the reality and the hard truth that and i think the basics in a hard truth. I learned coming out of the ann richards experience in the Governors Office is that anything that can be done that has a positive impact on peoples lives, can be undone when. Someone comes into office who not have that same sensibility and we saw so much of what and had pioneered undone under the next governor and then totally. Under the succeeding governors. So whats the practical take away from that that you need to not put the policy in place, but build a constituency for it . Yeah. To build a constituency for it. I think were seeing that now with the whole issue of reproductive freedom because there was a theres a constituency far for that. And so some of the starting with the Supreme Court but certainly some of the most restrain active invasive legislation state by state is running a lot of backlash. And its and its happening all over the country because there is a constituency that cares deeply about that issue. Youve already mentioned a couple of ways in which the environment today is very different than the one in which, you know, you ann richards operated in the nineties. Do you think if she were to come back today in prime ann richards in her prime run for governor today that she could get elected governor of texas . Well, it would depend on who her opponent would be. Greg abbott. Well let me back up. She could beat ted cruz in a new minute. And and the reason and is because the dislike of cruz is baked to his public. Even his republican colleagues in the us senate dont like him. And so that negative aspect is there and somebody like and who could come with that sparkling personality and baiting. No, greg abbott is a different sort of character at this point. That negativity has not been built and, but hes really working on it these days. I think people forget at this distance that ann richards, while clearly progressive ran is you know what today would be seen as quite a centrist candidate. Would she be too centrist to win the democratic today. I dont think i think her person polity would overcome that and maybe thats Critical Thinking on my part now, i think and was very practical. Very practical and. If youre a practical person, you are a little bit a centrist because you realize its a balancing act. If youre going to be successful and if youre really going to speak to the issues that matter of people you do have, theres a lot to balance and and was very good and at balancing i think she could i think she could win a i think she could win a primary although that too is changing. I think she would be popular in the cities right. That are held by democratic officeholders every city in the state, every major county. Although republicans are working very hard to take back Tarrant County and theyve made some inroads there and theyre spending millions and millions of dollars in Harris County to, lessen the democratic effort there. But dallas, san antonio, i mean, you always have opposition, but youve youve got strong youve got a strong democratic turnout and strong democrat organizations in the major cities. And youre beginning to see some movement in some of the original suburbs around those cities. You mentioned turnout and organization and one of one of the most impressive scenes in the book. To me is when you and some of your colleagues are working very hard to register voters here in san antonio and theres a scene where your registering people to vote and meatpacking plants on the west side of town. And you and i both are old enough. Looks like a few people in the room are old enough to remember poll taxes. And you were getting these people who didnt have 2. 50 to put that money up to register. Talk a little about well, those are the early days in politics when i was volunteering in causes and there was an effort to expand the Voter Registration in on the west side of san antonio, which traditionally had a very low voter turnout. And one of the places i went and again to back you could be deputized by the county Clerks Office and authorized to go in and register voters and at that particular time to be registered voter, you had to pay a tax, which was the poll tax. And i think it was 250 and i went with several other people into a big meatpacking plant on the west side of san antonio. And here i am, a 25 year old mother of two. Not that in the world. And go in there. And i was shocked to see young mainly mainly they were young coming out in their white aprons covered with blood from working in a meat packing plant and then reaching their pockets and digging out crumpled dollar bills or chains so they would have the right to vote. That was happening all over texas, happening all over the south. And it a shock to me to see that. And i do think. Thats one of the one of the things you have experience like that. And it can motivate you to try to change it and. Fortunately, through Court Decisions and court action, the poll tax was eliminated in texas. We want all yall to agree not to mention the poll tax to anyone currently in the Legislature Might give them some ideas. Do you think its for democrats today . Because, you know, so many, particularly statewide, but also congressional races or National Eyes now because of social because of cable television, whatever, Bernie Sanders says or does or aoc says or does, hung around the neck of somebody running. I think that happens. And that certainly happens on the other side as well. I mean, democrats do that to republicans, too, thank goodness. And but but no, were because were in such a different media environment. We know what happened in wisconsin. We know whats happened in tennessee the past week because see it its not on cable, but its on social media. Its on most of us have or three ways to connect and we see those things. And so now i think that these local elections can become nationalized. Now there are certain exceptions, particularly at lower levels. But right now, i think School Board Races are becoming national ized and thats really unfortunate thing for the public schools, texas, because youre electing people in office and were were here to book and the teachers are read books certainly not banned books but and thats a thats a national sized issue thats playing at many local communities. And its very to counter i want to go back to organizing for a minute. You and i were talking earlier about Stacey Abrams, for example in georgia, who i think we both agreed is, you know, not necessarily a great candidate. She is turning out to be a great organizer, advisor, you know, someone whos a lot of voters getting people to turnout, getting them involved in the process. Who do you see doing that in texas . I dont think anybody doing that in texas and fortunately, i mean, there may be some i think there probably local efforts in the cities. I dont see anybody whos undertaken the kind of statewide effort that Stacey Abrams in georgia, beto some of that when he was running. Do you see any of that persisting . No, i think was a very charismatic candidate, a charming was wonderful front of a crowd could inspire a crowd of people. And then when he left town, there wasnt anything left. So there was no great organizational building on. I think you know Stacey Abrams, its interesting when you look at the two she lost her first race she ran for governor very small margin and she didnt get caught up in all that president ial. Im destined to be president hoopla and and went back to georgia she had been a member of the Georgia State senate so she knew how to make deals. She knew who the people were she all the players and went back and she could raise money. Thats the other factor because of that national reputation, she raised money. She was going into little communities all over georgia register and hiring people and registering voters and building Little Organization tions largely run by women and it was it was a tremendous building operation which actually helped result in the election of two Democratic Senators georgia and we didnt we didnt have that kind of effort here. And the demographics are different here. Im not its probably an apples and oranges comparison, but Something Like that made a difference in the state of georgia and we really havent, to my knowledge undertaken that kind of massive build. County by county. You talked about demographics and you know, a lot of Democratic Leaders in texas and around the country seem to operate from an assumption that the proportion of latinos grows in texas and the proportion of the latino voters that they will automatically become democrats and vote democratic. Well, thats kind of fantasy thinking to you cant i mean, from what i see from a distance, the Hispanic Community is not monolithic. It is a very diverse and its not size fits all. And you and i here in san antonio are probably much more aware of that than other in the state. And you cant run a one size fits all campaign and expect a turnout. You also have to understand you have to understand peoples culture and aspirations and again, you cant stereotype based on what you think existed ten or 15 or 20 years ago. Also, its always a changing environment, but it takes take some Strategic Thinking to really build that. You mentioned betos and certainly in in was just exuding charisma and she once she got elected she was really a rock in Democratic Politics national as beto became and he got distracted by that. Do you think ann richards got distracted by that at all as she was running for reelection . I dont think so. And she could have gone into the National Arena at the time she was so popular. Her keynote speech at the Democratic Convention and miracle of miracles that, she was actually elected governor of texas. She she could have have done that. I dont think she got distracted by it. She answered lots of calls to go campaign for women who were Running Office all over the country. And if a call came in, shed say, flip this into my schedule, lets see. We can this over. Well see if we can help soandso and and oregon or soandso in massachusetts or whatever it was, whether there was a strong prochoice democratic woman running and do whatever she could to her get elected. But we several of us who were close to and had lunch with her before making the decision to run for reelection and suggested we suggested to her you could be a figure on National Stage if you want to. You do have to want run for reelection. This is going to be a very different race is, going to be much harder because you have a more appealing candidate than you the first go around and george and george bush. And she said, no, i feel an obligation to texas. And and she decided to make the race. Some of her closest friends knew that it would be a hard race and were her an out on a national. But she felt that need to continue to what she felt she had started. When karl rove, the republican consultant known to everyone by the nickname w, gave him a boygenius, was advising w. E. , you know, before running against ann richards, he he said, you you need to read cold anger, your first book. Why did he think you needed to read that book . What do you think took away from it . Well, i im not sure what he took away from it. I dont know. Maybe he took away something that he made up cold anger was basically about organization of cops in san antonio and and how it was largely parish built and built around values and and so thats what thats thats what the storyline was and i think part probably not what i would do good or liberal i missed that and probably they wanted to figure out what does this woman really think and where are her weaknesses and which is why you would do Something Like that. So i dont know her on a personal level, both rove and the chair of the campaign, the time joe allbaugh, were have been more personally and gracious to me. But that was the kind of and George W Bush was to, although he did have a sense humor. I got a Christmas Card from. What said was sad from some jerk. You know cold anger is a phrase you first heard from san antonios own cortez. Tell us what that means. Well, people who are continue to be on the the spectrum of being disadvantaged never, having opportunities, being discriminated against again and again, finding one obstacle, another chance to make you angry. You why . I cant. And and the tendency is to strike out. I thought i think what ernie cortez taught and what they hold i organizations here in san antonio and across the country have learned you have that anger. You dont have to deny the anger, but turn it down a notch or use the energy from, the anger, not the vitriolic behavior that sometimes goes with anger. Use that energy. And this gets to hoped to focus on the future you want to build, but it fuels your energy. And so thats what, you know, youre going to keep anger, just turn it down, make it a little cold. Yeah. You know, on the on the flipside of anger, i was fascinated by our of your family in it. Your it surprised me because you saying, you know, if your family comes from sicily, theres a caution there. Theres a theres a reluctance to, you know, lift your head up or draw attention to yourself. Came as a surprise to me maybe does to some people in here who ever known sicilians or in my dated one caution was not really the first word that came down a little difference between americans of sicilian. Once you get past the persons second generation. Yeah, but certainly on the island itself, you not want to expose yourself to you. If if you didnt want to show off, if you had any kind of wealth or stability. You did not to call to have that call attention by mafia capos in the area, because then they would come make whatever they could from and and sicily for a long time was extremely violent and people people were just my father who was sicilian and they were from corleone right by my grandfather was corleone. Do you know theres a mafia museum and corleone . Of course there is of course there. Yeah. But my grandfather to this country right at the turn of the century and but my father had a little bit dont dont show off dont you know dont put yourself out there to strong because thats opens you to attack. And i think i always had a little bit of that probably held back a bit which is why a little bit worried about some some of this book. Was that an advantage for you in politics, a disadvantage, some of each one . Well, probably a little bit of both. I mean, you know, you didnt you learn not you know, it probably made it easier to help someone else build on their accomplishments than to try to build on your own. I dont know. Its its an interesting its an interesting dynamic. Sicily now theyre mafia has pretty much been wiped out in sicily of the route of organized. International organized crime, settled in naples, which is on the mainland. And theres another interesting story there in terms of how it was wiped out. A photographer started blowing up her of mafia deaths and killings and putting them blowing them up and put them on the side of the building. When the population really could see visually the damage that the mafia was doing to families, to communities. You had the first antimafia demonstrations in italy going back 15 years ago and and basically and at that, you had federal Police Presence that came in and pretty much wiped out the sicilian leaders. You know, many of them have died in prison. Yeah, well, i think well open now for questions from. The audience, if you all can just raise your hands and someone bring you a microphone. I think weve got one over here. Yeah. Hi. Id like to ask you comparing another. Still not coming to. Try the other one. Oh, here we go. Got it. All right. So todays politicians to ann richards wondering, looking at michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer, where do you see any ann richards in . Also, second question, im looking at the younger, younger voters. Millennials and the group pollsters called plurals below them seeing as very progressive, very liberal, and that they are going be a huge theyre already a swing vote, but theyre going be a major voting bloc in coming elections are we doing enough to talk to younger liberal voters and could the texas chairperson of the Democratic Party go to hinojosa . Should he steps out and be better at that . Well, that would be a great idea. I yes, im really impressed the young people, and it doesnt necessarily have to be women, although i think Gretchen Whitmer in michigan is she has a saying shes her courageous and had courage and and that counts a lot. I look at the justin in tennessee those young black men who are out there in front on gun safety. And i think what they are building their it will have repercussions. I just hope i live long enough to see how it plays out because they are magnificent speakers. They seem to be thinkers and. They are they are developed. Theyre not going to back down from a message that is vital. And im really by all of that so i do think their younger leaders out there i dont know who they all are but theres something happening and i dont think we know the impact of it yet. I hope it is strong as it appears to be right. I think we had one over here. Yeah. I have a question for you about organizing housing. A few years ago, Lawrence Wright came. He pretty much said the same thing that you did about getting out the liberal democrats. And then if it had just been this little bit more of a push that beto could have been instead of cruz. So what are your thoughts on that . Well, i hes again, a little more push. But but but when im talking about organization, talking about take people who are leaders, who have relationships with other people and theyre willing to go along. Theyll have a little meeting and theyll say, okay were each going to contact ten people to get in, register and then were going to follow up and make sure, they know where to vote and how to vote. And you do that all over and you begin to a kind of organization. Its hard work. I mean, i can remember way back when i came to san antonio, there was an effort to build a group of northside democrats, never been an organization of northside in san antonio. They all met at a phone booth. I remember felt thats right. And so it was so what you do and you start small and then each if if its can really interesting and exciting if got something youre working toward but it but but its it has to be done and and there are places where would be open to do that im looking at midsized cities in texas right now you may not win them but you can certainly save conservative and the vote and begin to build up a larger vote statewide you. Surprised me when we talked earlier that you think waco for example, is an example. Oh, i just go out out of a hat. Really. Waco is is kind of an Industrial City and its growing rapidly that. Thats right. And so youve got youve got some opportunities there, believe it or not. You have opportunities in amarillo, youve got some opportunities throughout. East texas, nobodys really working. And again, youre not im not talking about deeply towns of five or ten or 15,000 people. Im talking these larger cities. Theyre not theyre not dallas or houston, but they might have 100,000, 150,000 people. And theres there can be opportunities there for building. Well what what happens with the School Voucher because that is tapping into rural areas a way that that that people who live in those areas or liberal that matter they want their schools damaged. I think we had when i i wonder if i could shift your focus just for a few minutes to the other side of the aisle as. It were one of the biggest shifts in texas. Ann richards day is, you know, not that the personalities have changed, but theres been such a shift in party identification. And i wonder just how you perceive that and permanent know you perceive that change to be. Obviously, its lasted 30 years, but you think that i mean, but just for one example, i mean, her success or the bushes have never been, you maga republicans to say the least. And there was, i think, you know, more of a tradition of bipartisan ship in texas, even when bush was governor. So how do you think that theres any or is this Wishful Thinking for, more centrist republicans in texas to take back more power or even with the right candidates on the democratic side to, shift back to being democrats. I think its pretty deep. First of all, thats one of the hard truths. But all it will take will be. One centrist republican who breaks through and knocks off one of the crazies and people may look at that and say, if soandso did it, how did they do it . And how could i emulate that . You know, there there were wonderful bipartisan gatherings. I not talk about that period of hope. We could talk to each other. I mean became friends with kay bailey hutchison. We probably didnt agree on any issue there were few womens issues that agreed on but we could talk to each other. I look at joe straus here in san antonio, a centrist republican who would be a fabulous leader. He was a good speaker of the house. And there there was a lot of that cooperation in the house with joe straus as the speaker. But its going to take somebody to really break through. And i go back and im going back now, 35, 40 years. The break when the liberal progressive democrats broke through. They beat the bull of the brazos and old guy named bill moore, who was the conservative member of the texas state senate. And he was a big old guy and a bully and progressive along and beat the bull or the brazos. And other people thought, well, maybe soandso did it. Maybe i could do it. And they began to take on these old line conservative democrats who were blocking progressive. And you begin to see a shift there. I dont know who that person would be or, where that race would be. It would have to be a spectacular victory, but it could sets something. All right. Now it looks so hopeless. If youre if youre a moderate or if youre a nevertrump republican and there is no place for you. The party right now, i think we had someone at the back over in the back. You have to legs. Yeah. Yeah. Shes had her hand up a little longer. Think. Hi. Thank you for thank you for talking us today and telling us about some of your your history in politics what do you think about the language that is used to divide us particularly red politic versus blue politics and the identity of fear and populism us versus them. What might. Do you see any way forward to unite unite us because we have so in common and it seems like such a shame that were were missing all that. I wish. I wish i could tell you i saw an easy way to do that again think its going to itll takes time erosion of some of those labels which most of them were misused and so i dont know i think we have to struggle to find a common language, a common sense of whats going on. I mean, probably at no time is the country more united and still divided. When we all watched the super bowl, you know, thats something the countrys doing. At the same time, we dont have many occasions like that and so so i dont know, i, i ill just have to answer your question by saying, dont know brit. I, you get the last one. So ill skip on the, the red and blue, but male, female so texas, weve had to female governors. I no female lieutenant governors and the partys either party neither ones running many female candidates even in the primary and theyre certainly not being backed by the party what it that is encouraging parties to keep up the same kind of theres i think as a nation i feel like weve grown a lot i was in a session on title nine earlier. Lots of progress other areas but i dont feel like in senior political offices were not putting up that are balanced from a gender perspective at all and would appreciate your perspective on why . Well, i think i look at youve got several and not only ill speak to democratic women, youve got several very strong in Texas Democrat women who are members of congress, el paso, houston, dallas. And again, theyre coming out of the cities. But and youve got Strong Female leadership up in houston, right, with lina hidalgo, whos attack constantly. And so i dont know. The thing is, we dont go back to the phrases why dont we put we dont have any kind of organization that puts anybody anyplace okay you somebodyll get a b there about it and im going to run for office and may not have a clue about how to do. They have no ability to raise money i mean so its were were not set up. I, i think and ive talked several friends abou