Pursuit of Racial Equity by progressives is leading to mediocrity in american institutions. Chad williams discusses w. E. B. Du bois in the role of world war plate in the fight for civil rights in america. You can find a full schedule of what is faring today on your Program Guide or by visiting booktv. Org. Starting now, africanamerican studies professor Langston Wilkins explores the history and significance of hiphop culture. Let me put my cheat sheet here. I should know this by now. He is currently assistant professor of africanun mica says at university of wisconsin most them. Before that hes in seattle when he was director of the Washington Cultural traditions etiquette that wrong . It is, okay. And before that he actually was here in tennessee where he worked at both the Tennessee Arts Commission and humanities tennessee, so formally in a past life he was of these people running the tent are doing, offer hospitality. Those in the set as a published author himself. So with that altered over to langston and you will give us an introduction to the pop in houston. Thank you, thank you. Im delighted to be here. Like jennifer said, maybe five years ago i was running around your working on, and collaborating with the rest of the staff that produced this event. He its really weird to be back here as an author but again im delighted to be here. Yeah, im an assistant professor folklore in africanamerican studies at the university of wisconsin, and those two areas and of informed my first book, welcome 2 houston hip hop heritage in hustl town. Lets see here. Im kind of switching into like author mode here. I was planning to be the host but still, give me. So the book came out in august that university of illinois press. Its an ethnographic look at the houston hiphop scene. I from houston, texas, so i went back there for about a year and did maybe ten more years of field work down in houston working with hiphop artists. I conducted 30 oral histories with these artists. I attended the numbers shows, did a lot of archival work to produce this book. It focuses on the role of place inth the development, in maintenance of heritage, hiphop heritage in houston, texas. So i use all that ethnographic information and fieldwork to come take a look at how this local heritage was a product of africanamericans intimate bond or connection with place in their environment. So a little bit about the philosophy, kind of underpinning the book andid why i decided too it. You know, if was the general feeling that the way we talk about hiphop culture does not always reflect the true nature of the culture, and these, bit g at times. So when we talk about hiphop, we often talk about as this multibillion dollar global interest . Its currently the most popular genre in the country, musical genre in the country. In fact, hiphop that was responsible for 25 of our music consumption in this country. So its a big dominant musical genre, thats true. We also focus on its new york roots and this traditional definition of hiphop which is a culture consisting of four elements. You have the emceeing and dj come breakdancing and the graffiti. Thats also true, right . But both of these understandings are relevant and true, but at the same time hiphop culture looks differently across space, right . So each locale in this country and around the world generate on hiphop culture and tradition based on the experiences and can of worldview and experiences of people in those cities. Houston texans where im from, yeah, has a very unique hiphop heritage, is comprised of two to three core practices. You have the music called screw music which is its very slow, mighty, cut atmospheric hiphop sound. You have slabs, which is a kind of local car culture that emerged industry to houston, texas, in the 1980s. And spending on who you talk to, theres also an illicit drug culture called mean, which i dont, i dont necessarily consider that from it a part of heritage but some people do, right . And so the tenant mix of practice creates again this very unique hiphop heritage in houston and thats kind of what i explored through the book. Asp industry kind of grows and changes at a very rapid rate, houstons hip hop heritage continues to persist largely of this intense pride of place, that central to the lives of black people in especially working class black folks in houston and these neighborhoods that produce hip hop culture so lacking Financial Resources and cultural capital, these working class black houstonians and i count myself one of those people. I grew up in those neighborhoods and thats you know, thats what made me we draw Identity Protection and inspiration from our streets where we grew up, our neighborhoods apartment buildings and even the city itself. Right. And so these spaces and places seen as sort of inheritance, right. It becomes part of our identity. And in the book, i show how this identification with place and this pride of place has led to development of each particular of houstons hip hopand also tho the city of houston and at least our version of it. Thats cause local artists and audiences to maintain this local hop heritage. But heritage is complicated. So, yes, houston has this local and longstanding hip hop heritage, but heritage is not or universal for some people. It can be. It can empower and affirm, but for others, it could be incredibly and even harmful. And so i explore the complexities of heritage through three different artists, artistic communities. Each of these communities are these subgroups have their own particular connection to local hip hop heritage, and they use it in different ways. And it produces different outcomes for them. So i talked to based artist and theyre the ones who actively kind of maintain connection to this local heritage. They feel like. Its their duty as artists to support the local heritage so that music still very much rooted in through music. They actually talk about slabs and all that and because local are deeply connected this heritage these street artists are among the most successful artists in the city but you have selfproclaimed underground whose styles move quite a bit away from the through tradition and their they have wide influence is and theyre driven mostly by their own artistic impulses and so they dont really feel obligated to maintain this heritage but at the same time they strategically use it in order to appease local audiences, but nevertheless, because they dont actively adhere to legacy, they kind of struggle for relevance, relevancy in the same now. And i also talk to christian artists or holy hip hoppers in the city who use hip hop heritage kind of as a tool in ministry, of course, elements of local heritage could conflict the christian i think thats pretty clear. But you see them reference this sound and slabs and all that in order to connect with and minister, minister to locals. So houston hip hop is also a tool of ministry for these folks. So yeah, basically you what im trying to say with the book is that hip hop is a folk culture is not often understood as such, but its very much a folk music folk with a small, if not the genre. But it is certainly music that at its core is developed by small place bound communities or folk groups and reflects their way of life, their social values and even their traditions and, hip hop culture creatively communicates the experiences, attitudes and the worldview of working class africanamericans and land. Next, folks, its entertainment, but it also ideas and information within these communities. So even the most popular and dominant hop styles have a folk foundation. The art market started as small group, and some of them became traditions. And so thats the book. And nutshell. And yeah, im to chat further about hip hop or whatever. So when does your study begin . Give us idea of the time to time. Yeah, it begins around 11. Thats when i went to do the field work in houston. I was at university, moved back literally into my parents house and stayed for a year or so doing deep research and then yeah, again, on and off for about ten years. But it starts around 2011. Yeah. Okay. And you, you talked about the you interviewed people who had been involved from the very beginning and then you interviewed who were kind of seen founders of this field and then you sort of talked to the people who were popular at the moment. And then you talked to the group of emerging artists. And so how far back in time do they go, the founders of houston hip hop. Oh yeah yeah they go way to the mid eighties some of these folks were making hip hop as early as 1982. So after the genre first developed in new york and spread across the so yeah now theyre long time hip hop folks they really i to folks who really helped build the foundation this scene in the city which are describe for the neighborhoods oh. Thats a great question yeah no you know these neighborhoods are often unfairly labeled as bad and and rough but you know, that was in my right. Theres so much more that and beyond that i mean their communities are mostly situated, you know in the north side and south side of the city of long standing residential segregation and racism right there tight knit. Right. And so if you grew up in the northern or the southern part, thats kind of your social world, right . You dont really like go back forth. You dont move out of it. You could move out of it. But like youre youre its part of your identity. But, you know, theres to any other neighborhood, theyre tight knit people socialize together. You they grew up together and again, i think they see the neighborhood as part of their heritage inheritance. So its something that you actively and represent even as you go further in life and move away from it. Its still part of my identity. And so, yeah, theyre just kind of rich, beautiful neighborhoods full of vibrant cultural practices. And one of those is hip hop culture. So talk a little bit about the production of the sound and how its to houston. Oh yeah, yeah. So its just screwed and chopped sound, which is dominant sound in the national hop Atlanta International hip hop landscape nowadays. But it started the late 1980s. Its super, super slow, right . Most hip hop culture historically has been uptempo, you know, midtempo, uptempo. You know. But houston, we do it slow. And theres many reasons for that, mostly because its hot. Were just tired all the time, but its slow music. Its kind of muddy. Its bass heavy. Its meant to be played through in these powerful car stereo speakers. The lyrics are rooted kind of like deeply local experience. So youre like, not from there. You might not understand what everybodys talking about, but i know its great music, and it started in 1980s with this guy named dj screw, who just kind of on his own develop this sound that kind of took over the world. But, you know, its great when you hear its just super slow, choppy, muddy muddy music, but it started in houston. Yeah. How did actually do it . Oh, yeah. First, when he started it. He was doing it. I think he was using tapes too. And it just kind of slowed these tapes down. But eventually he could use the pitch control knob of his turntable to slow the records but then eventually his final setup was recording everything in real time and in normal speed and slowing it down when he would reproduce the tapes. Now, though using latest technology, you can make that super slow music just using your computer. Yeah. So is it only something that is produced in the Recording Studio or is it live . Also, you can do it live. No, you can. You can do it live again using. All sorts of latest mechanical or musical instruments. But its mostly i think a studio produced sound kind of hard to recreate that particular slow and atmospheric sound live and stage. So its mostly a studio based thing so as interested in introduction, you say it averages around 60 beats per minute. Yeah thats the average human heart rate. Oh, thats interesting. Yeah, there could be some connection there. No. Yeah, i will say know there theres i kind of over the drug connection because i dont like to like highlight that so much, but it is part of at least the history of the culture, the individual lives who were establishing the sound. They drank coffee, sirup and would slow them down. And this music kind of arose within that experience of being slow having your whole kind of faculties slowed down. This music was kind of the musical accompaniment for, that experience. So its certainly connected to the body. Yeah, ill give you that. And for those of you, i didnt know the term lean. I think here in we call it purple drank. Well what i call the houston. Yeah now it has a bunch of different names we were talking about this but yeah yeah yeah it israel though. Its real, right . Yeah. I mean in purple now, but anyway. Yeah, yeah. So tell us a little bit about the role of local production and local record shops. Oh yeah, yeah. No, i love to talk about that. Yeah. You know, this is for a long time and still to this day, its super local like, you know, houston is such a weird industry. Your scene because you could be super successful and get kind of rich as an artist while never leaving the city because the hip hop culture is so vibrant and so big and most of it historically and to this day is produced through local and put out through local independent record labels. So its hyper local music to this day. Yeah, no, no. The record in the record shops. Yeah, its mostly sold within the city. It feels like in houston, it feels like everybody in houston. Right. Its not true, but it like that is so ubiquitous and but its kind of supported by this strong infrastructure for hip hop thats been developed over the and the labels and the studios. The record shops play a big part of that. How has streaming affected that . Oh, yeah, yeah. I think its affected the money that an artist can get. I mean, thats really true because they went from selling out physical stores. Right, and getting quite a bit of money to putting their own records to everything being streamed. And they get like less than a cent off individual stream. So it impacted their ability to maintain lives and careers off it. But its also kind of grown the scope, reach of the culture. Now i think theyre reaching countries in areas that they never would have reached before. And youre hearing people all over the world, houston, identify through music, like theyre referencing like stuff in houston, even though they never set foot there. And i think streaming had a lot to do with that for sure. So you write a little bit about your own role as kind of an insider, which is, yeah, the constant dilemma, the folklorist or ethnomusicologist. Sure. How did you negotiate those interactions . It wasnt, yeah. That was part of the hes doing the work because i actively tried to maintain this sort of outsider perspective because thats what i was taught in school, you know, at the time it was, hey, youre supposed to be this objective kind of researcher, or no matter how intimate or intimately connected you are with the folks. Right. In order to produce good scholarship. Right. You had this kind of, you know, be distant from it. But i was, you know, down there and moving in through spaces that im like where i lived and grew up, right . And meeting people who like, you know, knew these environments i grew up in, you know. I kind of dropped a lot of that in. I think it helped really help me kind of build bonds. I wouldnt have otherwise been able to and i really think i got information and got access that i otherwise couldnt have gotten, you know, and at the same time to just kind of talking to these folks and saying, hey, look, you know, im here kind of preparing my ph. D. , but im the same guy from these neighborhoods. I think they kind of took pride in that. And they were willing to, again, give me a lot more and information than i would otherwise get. So, yeah, kind of during their research. I feel like i stepped into sort of an insider role. But when i wrote book, i kind of stepped away from it in order to get it published and get it through peer review. So yeah, thats interesting that you say that you were taught that in school because we went to the same school and my experience a little bit before you as a little bit different where we were taught pretty much what you were just saying to take advantage of the fact youre an insider that a folklorist an anthropologist looking at their own culture and trying to bring those tools in. What youre really is the methodology is what making you different than somebody whos participating in the culture. Yeah, yeah. And let me say it was like one or two professors that emphasized i need to step away. So but they were like super important to my work but yeah and i think to kind of before our era you know it was there was this push to be you know for anthropology and folklorist be these objective distant observers but. I think in the last 20 years or so that thats changed. You know, we have been pushed to like use our connections and our intimacy to, you know, do better work. So, yeah, thats very true. Yeah and i would agree that before my time or yeah, the time of my professors were taught that you have to be objective, but then you cant, you know, theres no such thing as being when youre participating in the itself. Right. And, you know, i think different when some of these professors, you know were absolutely like stepping in a world that they werent from. And it was hard for them to get that of status for me. Im going literally back to my moms house. And so now how can i ever feign theyre like, thats my culture these are my folks. And so anyway, yeah, yeah. Well, im just just kind of a little the career path of many people turn out to be folklorist is a lot of time. Start off with your own culture and then with each successive project, you move a little bit further away from that until all of a youre in turkey looking at ceramics or something. Yeah. And thats where langston will be next. Lets now look out for that book in 15 years. Yeah, i want to ask you about the material culture, okay . Yes. And with this so tell us about cars. Oh, yeah. I can tell you a lot about the cars. Yeah. No, the cars are you know, if im known for anything and im not known, but if im not for anything, its studying this car culture and so yeah. Houston the houston hip hop scene has this kind car culture called slab that developed in houston street culture in the mid 1980s there essentially these older models, large size american sedans, were talking like cadillacs, lincolns, oldsmobiles and things like buick, things like that, that painted in these like explosive candy, like colors and they feature all kinds, other body modifications and they sit out by sedan or theyre the rims these cone like chariot like rims called swinger the elbows is actually pictured on the back cover. Yeah. Kind of emerge as their own culture in the mid 1980s, but as the screw sound kind of emerged, the slab kind of was a primary vehicle through which that music was promoted and produced and so they kind of became interconnect did in the early 1990s and now theyre kind of inextricably tied together. You cant really talk about screw music, just love music without talking about slab. And so when i went to do the field work, i wasnt really about the cars, but as i was going through and going to events and talking to folks, i realized that the cars were very much part of the story. So yeah, produced a whole chapter on it. The last chapter actually talks about how as a public folklorist, i produced big event for arts lab culture kind of helped for better or for worse, mainstream. The culture within houstons general cultural fabric and yeah, now you see slabs everywhere. The mayors of houston wrote slabs and different parades when the won the world series last, there was a big graphic that showed the various players riding in slab and so yeah no im hope but yeah i mean well i cant tell. Yeah i yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. No, i. Good. Were going to act like that didnt happen. No, but yeah. No, no. Slab culture kind of the visual and material culture element of houston hip hop culture. Id say, wheres the word slab come from. Well that well, you know, thats rooted in oral history, which is not something thats not infallible. Right. Some people say that it from the fact that when you put all these different on the car and all different batteries in the trunk to propel produce to the bass heavy sound kind of weighs the car down closer to the slabs of the concrete of the street other people say that back in the day and it would take like a year to produce a slab. People would say when they were ready about to hit the slab or a mortar. My car ready for the street. Right. And so those are the two stories that i heard. Slab is also now an acronym for flow, loud and bangin, which i think reflects the car culture and music culture as well. So in your last chapter you talk about christian hip hop . Yeah, yeah. So give us some insight into that world. Yeah, yeah. And again, similar to the slab, i did not into houston thinking i was steady. Christian hip hop in houston, but another researcher, kerry allen tipton, who has a wonderful book about sexy fight songs thats available now through vanderbilt press. She was down there working and she said, hey, look, i got a student in my class is part of the christian hip hop scene do you want to meet him . Im like, yeah, all right. You know . And so i talk to him. He let me know that, hey, theres this whole world of christian hip hoppers who are using elements of local hip hop heritage, including this groove sound and referencing slab and stuff in order to appeal to local and just local people. They use it as a tool and in order to, you know, become, i guess, street ministers in some respect they use hip hop heritage to say, hey, look, you know, im like, you had your struggles. Now im, you know, rolling christ and you said to and so yeah and know its interesting because hip hop houston actually has one the early like major holy or christian hop scenes going way back to early 1990s and just i had no clue because i was only listening to it and its really strong to this day so yeah thats a major part of the story thats often underexplored what has been the response of your subjects to the publication of your book . Oh, its been wild. No, i like, you know, i have especially the underground community, you know, i write about several who back ten years ago were pretty active in the but because its kind of hard to maintain careers down there just not as active anymore. But now suddenly you know im seeing them put on shows and the tagging me and, you know, in their fliers on instagram and stuff. So its really revitalize some folks in that scene. But now im getting love from everywhere, you know, when i did the research, it was a piece de dissertation right. And, you know, i had no clue whether this was going to come out as book, you know, back then. And, but although but i told them it away because, you know, i wanted them to feel like i wasnt extracting or taking their stories for my own personal benefit. I wanted them to see themselves out there in a book in the world and ive been able to connect with folks that i work with and they have been delighted, elated that their stories experiences are now in this text for everybody to read. So its been great so you read little bit about the difficulty in gaining access to women rapper. Yes. Yeah. So tell us about that. Yeah. Yeah. You know tin tin 11 years ago, the hip scene in houston looked very different. I mean, now, of course, mega stallion and folks are there. I mean, shes like the most dominant hip hop artist in the country. Right. But ten years ago, these spaces i would into were just very dominated by men and very masculine anyways. And, you know and when i say street culture, it was really street culture, you know, id be out there with folks who, because of the lives they were having to live, you know, it just it street culture. Ill just say that. Yeah. And so there wasnt a lot of i didnt encounter a lot of female artists there and but thats not to say that there werent female contributions to the culture because they were out there being managed or is and producer is and and Club Promoter is and doing all kinds of things is just in terms of like the rapping itself. I dont think the context nor the the men made enough space for them. So it was hard for me to connect with them in that way. So i wish i could continue work, you know, because its a very different game now. And i think the study that i did would be much richer. I had more female comments, commentary there. Yeah. And so this is just sort of a little aside, but one of the issues in the field or what i found is that a lot of times when i went out with a male colleague, we could kind of divide and conquer and get to more information that you mentioned, giving you a talk about it. Yeah, a student. So yeah when you go back, if you do youve already got this is your credibility that may open me even more doors for you. Yeah, i hope so. I so. And, you know, i was able to interview a couple of female artists then, but even then, you know, they were like, hey, i was doing 99 of my interviews person, right. But they because for very fair reasons only want do it over the phone and i told the it was for their safety and i got yeah so the dynamics were different. But now with zoom and everything, its just totally different game and you know who knows about continuing this work but if i do, i look forward to having just a wider diversity of input here. So what are you working on now . Oh yeah yeah. So a few things. Im working on a book and again, i dont know when is it going to come out . When i finish it on a new york. Well, the folklore of york street culture. So im looking. The new york underground street culture of the eighties nineties crack era and looking at the folklore that emerges out of that and it continues to be dominant in various spaces, especially digitally. So thats one book. And also working with a good friend of mine and colleague named lavonne williams, who to be the curator, the stax museum, and also National Museum of African American music. Were collaborating in a book about the independent Hip Hop Movement of the late nineties and early 2000. So those are the two things we got burning out there. So and maybe something to come up. Yeah. So talk a little bit about the experience of taking a dissertation and turning it into a book for popular. You have a hard yeah yeah. So now the dissertation was very much a doctoral dissertation it was full of theory and language edge and all this stuff that wouldnt mean anything to most people and sometimes didnt mean anything to me. And so, you know, i had this rough text and, you know, i just had a took several years to work on it and. So i got rid of all of that. The literature review and now theres the that just wouldnt mean anything to anybody and really focused on telling stories and really breaking down, you know what i was trying to convey and a really, really that everybody can including the folks that i work with right now is super i really them to see themselves in the text understand what i was trying to say you know and so much of that work was just getting rid of the academic language and turning it into something that was, you know, could be publicly consumed and and had great editors at the university of illinois and also friends who i bounce ideas off of. And, you know, my wife whos also ethnomusicologist like me i mean she as well so took time but i turned it into something that people could actually read. Know you should read it if you have time for the projects youre working on now, you dont have to have all that know. No, no. I got a job so i dont know its going to be a little Academic Year you know, because. Well you want that rigor. Yeah. And itll probably one of them at least ill go through an academic process i think by now that ive proven that now that ive proven that i dissertation or doctoral worthy, right, i dont have to do all that stuff. There will be another book you all can read and understand. Okay. I think we will open it up to questions from the audience now. So if you have a question and if you come over here to this microphone. Please ask questions because we still got a good 15 minutes or so before we have to leave. Ive been struggling for how to formulate this, but my understanding is that a lot of people from new orleans moved to houston after Hurricane Katrina and as another hyper local hiphop scene. I wonder if youve noticed whether the new orleans hiphop has had any influence on houston hiphop culture and the last like 155 years plus . Thats a great question. I will say yes and no. No in the sense that because houston and new orleans are so geographically close to each other, hiphop is always influenced houston hiphop. Going up in the city if you turn on the local hiphop station, at least half, a fourth of what you were here would be from new orleans. So that was always there. But yeah, the mass of new orleans folks moving to houston around 2005 i think it radically changed the houston hiphop landscape. I think of brought, didnt change the tempo because thats traditionally houston but i think a change in the language in some of the flavor of the music, and a lot of the even current, popular artists in w houston were born in new orleans and came over during katrina. So its changed it but that connection that new orleans, Louisiana Tech sector eclectic connection was always there. Great question, thank you. At the beginning of your talk you mentioned four elements, dj, mc, graffiti. Theres one of the honest with you i did not understand or know, the fourth term. So its whats popularly known as breakdancing but originally in the culture it was called the boeing because original dancers were called just rake boys. So they would dance to this part of record call break, its with the part of the record are called break boys. There you go, yeah, yeah. I had to learn i just wasnt done with that exact term. Yeah, b boying, dj and emceeing. Thank you. I could be totally wrong about this but it seems like, im an older guy and he seemed like in the late 80s in the United States there was rapper dmc. From houston. Dallas. Very different. Wonder, is anyone it m houston scene who has made it major hiphop rdc influences from houston on anyone from houston . Oh, yeah, yeah. In terms of like the houston in fact, an national stage, you go back to late 1991 you had a ghetto boys who had mind playing tricks which was a top hiphop and top record at the time. Fastforward 15 years, made 2000s, your people like paul wall, slim thug and mike jones who really brought screw music to International Landscape through their music. And now again, yeah, Megan Thee Stallion from houston the sasebo from, the number one or two like top hiphop artist in this country. That in terms of the sound, i mean, i think if you listen to hiphop in general nowadays you hearing a major houston influence. People dont want to admit it but its there, right . If you listen to the tempo of a lot of r. Ap music nowadays its slow. We were doing that, houston, on talking crap now but theres something called slower reverb, right . Thats a direct connection to this sound. So yet its out there. We are making waves. Do you see the Younger Generation in houston having the same reverence for the culture that the oldld guys did, for lak of a better word . Guys like us . Yeah, yeah. I think its different. I think its different. We talked about the internet and how its kind of open doors and kind of breaking down barriers were used to be there when the seams are really rooted in place. I think theres less reverence and less connection to that heritage its still there, still strong, butut speed is how can e fix that . I work with young people. I teach high school. They think they know that they are paying reverence but theyre really not. Ye and we need, we need someone to teach them thehe history and culture. Well, the book is here, too. Im on it. Let me say this is my book but there is at least in houston theres tons of folks, kinds of Cultural Workers who are doing things like museum exhibits, who are creating curriculum dedicated to houstons hiphop, who are writing of the books. Theres a dj through biography that the camera last may that is amazing. Some is producing a houston hiphop museum, right . And something all of these and, of course, shut these Public Events like festivals and stuff. I think all of these are ways that educators and just kind ofe folks get together and support hiphop by producing institutions using, if not federal, or public dollars, but like destroying infrastructure supporteh throwing support behind these publications and events. Thats a good way of doing it, is somebody local heritage in that way. Do you have any of the questions from the audience . I will take this opportunity to push our collaborator. You want to talk about it or dont me to . You couldhi start . So the Historical Society during the early days of company decided to take all of our programming online, and langston alongur with doctor sean pitts,r company conveners of series, tennessee 101, they should tennessee music, and when i approached them with this idea i said i want our very first session to be about hiphop. I was very insistent upon that. I said it has to be hiphop. Because tennessee is thought about the music state and would live in music and people always assume its country music, but we have so much more here and he states he go online to our website into the very first session which langston colead with dj spanish fly out of memphis pickets about hiphop in the bluff city come right . Is that the title of it . Yeah, yeah, no. That was fun. Im a bigger memphis hiphop fan. Ago. Rom long when i got this opportunity i was going to do it myself and i presented, you do, academic presentation, but i it would be a great opportunity to really talk to someone who was at the foundations of memphis hiphop and that was dj spanish life who in the late 1980s established the memphis hiphop sound which i think along with used as one of the dominant influencess on hiphop period today. That was a great session. We juste talked about music boxes. What talk about the circuit next month. Were all over the place in the best liberalists celebrate tennessee music. Its a great event that is g online. All of the sessions available online. We do them live and so can register, its all free. Everything we will be done has been record and is available on our website which is tennessee history. Org. Check it out because you could use, langston has brought a lot of people to us. Yeah. We shared the duties of introducing theat artist. What is when the roasted at you . Did one of music boxes will be did a tour, we had an exhibit and we did a little the. Yeah, yeah. No, i was just thinking about what we were talking about today. Today. We did one on hbcu band music, which speeded that was right after they won a grammy, two days later. Right. That was cool. Howard armstrong. The Howard Armstrong we had what i like about that one is its a setting we call narrative stage where you have both spoken, you know, im going to chile a storyry but that am also going to play an instrument, so they did a lot of that. Yeah, and to plug kerry allen attempted again a few months ago you did one on not fcc fight songs but was it on Frances Craig . And bandleader here national in the interwar years. So yeah, i need again, i mean we are really celebrated the true of tennessee music. Again, i mean you are no most of your from here. Tennessee has an incredibly rich musical history and thats what were trying to sell richer and export. Succumbing up, its going to be circuit of the 50s and 60s in the creation of africanamerican traditiin midd. Is anybody else having at the questions . Is anything i didnt w ask that you want to add . No. I mean, you touched on it all. I mean again this is i been working on this for about a decade on and off. Obviously i worked as a public folklorist for your side to step away from actually working on the book, but this is the m life work. I need for a long time some close out the inner world. We have a question. You say your research in new york hiphop culture. How does it compare with used in . I shouldve been more clear about that. Imar researching the undergroud street culture of the language d material culture and fashion that came out of that. But all of that firmly connects with hiphop culture around the world right now. I mean, new york is the epicenter, the foundation of hiphop culture. I mean, go look into early houston hiphop or you listen to any early hiphop scene in this co dominant influence amid making 80s new york, and so speeders can you name some of the artists that the major come it . Yeah. You can go back from new york, you can go back to run dmc, or heres a particular story, this is a group called the show boys who are from queens, new york, and then made this random song called drag rap. I think, or what thats we call it done here. They made this random song that did nothing in new york but some of it made down to memphis and down to new orleans and became the foundations of both of those scenes, right . And so no, new york is central to the foundation of the scenes obvious the 20, 30 years later theyve gone a different directions. But new york is epicenter of hiphop. My husband and i would just t talk about this, that was the music of her high school years. I know im giving away our age. I still listen to run dmc. But they were new york central. Yes,s, from queens yeah. Langston, if peopleant to follow your research or if they want to hear some of this music, where should they go . Oh,se yeah, yeah. If you want to follow my research they can subscribe to my substack, which is Langston Wilkins dot substack. Com. Im on twitter, too. But if you want your some of the music, theres incredible playlists out there. If you google Lance Scott Walker who wrote this incredible bio, for long time hes also been a scholar of houston hiphop and is put up these incredible playlists. I think theyre on spotify or unsound cloud. If you really want to immerse yourself in the culture i will look him up, too. But yeah, you can follow me. Okay. I think with that we will in our session, and you can join langston in the authors tend to get a signature on your books and continue the conversation. Thank you all. [applause]