Transcripts For CSPAN2 Kimberle 20240705

Thank you so much for coming to this very special you are in for an incredible treat. My name is Anthony Arnove. Im the editorial director of haymarket books. And we have the great privilege be the publishers of say her name, which is the focus of this program. Our Program Features Kimberle Crenshaw with Dorothy Roberts members of the say name Mothers Network and. In addition to the author talk, well have special performances evening from Rosalyn Coleman abbey, dobson, Margaret Odette and kim, and then also a book signing after organize by the brilliant independ bookseller here in philadelphia uncle bobby. So please thank uncle bobbys and and the free library of philadelphia hosting this event. Were so grateful. Be here, Kimberle Crenshaw charles, the cofounder and executive director of the African American policy forum and the founder and executive director of the center for intersectionality social policy studies at columbia law school. She is the Promise Institute professor at Ucla Law School and the isidore in civil cells. Baker professor at columbia law school. Shes popularly known her development of intersectionality, Critical Race Theory and the say her Name Campaign and is the host of the podcast intersectionality matters and the moderator of the Webinar Series the blacklight. She one of the most cited scholars legal history crenshaw is the coauthor of the new book is the subject of tonights program say her name black stories of Police Violence and public silence, which features a foreword by janelle monae, say her name provides an Analytical Framework for understanding black susceptibility to Police Brutality and state sanction and violence. And it explains we can effectively mobilize various and empower them to advocate for racial justice. Founded in 1996, the africanamerican policy is an innovative think that connects academic activists and policymakers to efforts to dismantle structural inequality. Apf promotes frameworks and strategies. Address a vision of racial that. Embraces the intersect actions of race, gender class, and the array of barriers that disempower those who are marginal ized in our society. You can visit their website at ww w dot apf dot r g. Kim crenshaw will be in dialog tonight with Dorothy Roberts. Roberts is the 14th pen integrates knowledge professor the george h. University professor of law, sociology and the raymond and d. Tanner moselle alexander, professor of civil at university of pennsylvania. She is also the founding director of the penn program on race science and society and intersect and internationally scholar, activist and social critic. She has written and lectured extensively on the interplay of gender race and class in legal concerning reproduction, bioethics and Child Welfare. Her latest book, which i cant recommend highly enough torn apart, is about how the Child Welfare system destroys black families and how abolition can build a safer world. Roberts is also the author of the classic killing the body, race, reproduction and the meaning of liberty, among other books, and has published more than 100 journals in essays and books and scholarly journals. Welcome to the stage Dorothy Roberts. The beautiful. Thanks so much for coming. And thank you for that warm welcome. Anthony well, i have the honor of serving as your emcee tonight as we continue to celebrate some of the release of, say her name black womens stories of Police Violence and silence by kimberly and the africanamerican policy forum. Tonight were going to hear live readings of excerpts from the book, participate in a collect dove ritual of remembrance and have an intimate conversation open with the brilliant author kim crenshaw, and members of the say her name Mothers Network. This book is an extension of the say her Name Campaign which began in 2014 with the goal of experiences with, state sanctioned violence and Police Brutality. At the core of this work is the application of art, storytelling, testing and ritual to a highlight the names of black women and femmes whose lives stolen from us. As the book describes, the birth of the movement takes us back to the site of a white coffin. And here to read her own about the genesis of this campaign, we welcome the stage. The executive director of the African American policy forum Kimberle Crenshaw. Im standing an air conditioned auditorium thinking about Michelle Caruso and the countless other black women killed by police whose deaths . No. Was paying attention to. My audience on this balmy spring day is mostly made up. Public interest lawyers, students and faculty. Im the courage that michelles mother, fran garrett, exhibit it after Phenix Police killed in her own home. Michelles story like those too many others would have ended when Sergeant Percy dupree stole her life. Had she not been born to a tenacious mother who refused to let her daughters be forgotten, fran was determined that her daughters life and death would not be reduced to obscure ity. Another statistic no one counted. Michelle was killed just five days after a cop gunned down brown in ferguson, missouri. After seeing the Community Protests taking shape there, fran decided to march michelles casket to phenix city hall in brave act of protest. She joined a powerful tradition of black women resisting and denouncing the state violence that directly them and all too often destroys families. Friends marched to the phenix hall was a flare in the night. Friends acts literally placing her daughters casket. The door of municipal power not only demanded that michelle be seen but also rendered visible the Police Killings of other women, the sorrow or procession of michelles coffin to. City hall left a searing image that spoke to the many ways in which black womens faith has been left in the hands of police. While their stories have been marginalized and erased. While Michael Browns killing justifiably sparked a wave of nationwide protests protests over lethal Police Shootings of black men, the killing of black women like michelle who had yet to be memorialized in widespread activation ads and denunciations fran offered a power of full and moving witness to the fact black women were also losing their lives in circumstances that spoke to the disregard of black and family bonds. There was no sound reason for stories to be banished to the shadows of our collective consciousness. Mere afterthoughts in litany of savagery that has come to constitute antiblack state friends act reminded us all of the obvious fact that slain womens mothers dont grieve for them any less. Their children dont cry for them any less. Their siblings dont mourn them any. And we should not protest their killings less than we do. The killings of their brothers, fathers and sons. Six months later, as i look at the audience, i wonder who among them will michelle cousteaus name would they know of any daughters who were stolen like friends, wives . Or was the erasure, these horrific losses difficult to interrupt because of the reflexive ways that the very of antiblack Police Violence almost exclu passively to our indian sons to make the patterns of erasure visible and audible. I invite the audience to join me in something new. I ask those audience members who are able to do so to stand. I tell when you hear a name you dont recognize take a seat and seated. I promise to invite the last person to tell the seated audience what they know about the person whose name . No else recognized. Then i call out the names. Slowly deliberate only and loud enough. For even those seated in the very of the auditorium to hear eric garner or mike brown, tamir rice, philando castile, freddie gray. Im always bit surprised when one or two people dont recognize even the first two names, but fewer than a handful have taken their seats. By the time lift up freddie gray, the vast majority of people recognize these men and know the common risks that link their fates. Are black and did not survive an encounter with the police. I pause for a moment. I ask the audience to look around. The room is quiet and still people take in what they have. Demonstrate. Group literacy about the vulnerable ability of black people to Police Violence. At the moment, it seems a completely obvious reading of the social knowledge that is minute merely necessary to ground any conceivable collective action. I continue. I say, michel, because so. And then comes that which which of dozens sometimes, hundreds, sometimes a thousand people taking their seats. It is the sound of silence. The sounds of people taking their seats mount. As i the roll call Tanisha Anderson, ayanna india. Shelly fry, Corinne Gaines. One person is left standing after india kaga. But continue anyway. So people can hear more names. At last i released the last person from any obligation to speak. I remind everyone that im law professor. After all. And i only say the last person standing will tell us something about the name they recognize. To ensure everyones honesty throughout the exercise, their nervous tears as the last person takes. Their seat. This moment releases some of the tension in the room. Yet the point hangs over us. The silence. Black women whove been killed by the police has distorted our collective capacity to. Respond. We cannot address a problem we cannot name and we cannot name it. If the stories of these women are not heard. Thank you, kim, for that powerful reading from your book. A Common Thread that youll find qmrepeated again and again in or tonight is motherhood is never protective shield against Police Violence for black women our children too are never protected the horror of our deaths and the marking of our bodies killer bull. We see this with the recent Police Killing of 21 year old takaya young in ohio in september. Young was a pregnant woman and mother of two who was shot by a Police Officer through the front windshield. Her car. We sadly see it again in the case of miriam carey who was killed years ago in washington, d. C. , on october 3rd, 2013. Miriam drove through a Police Checkpoint that was not clearly marked in washington, d. C. , with her one year old daughter strapped in the car. Within just minutes, Six Secret Service agents fired eight rounds in her car and two capitol Police Officers shot nine rounds into her car. Miriam was dead shortly after arriving the hospital. Luckily her one year old daughter survived. Miriam did not fire any shots. She didnt even have a gun in her car. Here to read the words of Valarie Carey miriam. Sister, please. Artist and performer margaret. Odette. My name is Valarie Carey. Im the sister of miriam carey. And im a part of the hashtag. Say her name Mothers Network. Mary m was a beautiful, a beautiful young lady. She to be successful in life. And as she got older she decided to go into the field of health and she became a registered dental hygienist. Im actually older than miriam. By seven years. And so theres a gap. I remember she was a baby because. She was so round and chubby. My father nicknamed her butterball and i guess my memories really started to develop when she got older and we would actually hang out more. That was my little sister. The day that miriam was killed, it was a thursday, october 3rd, 2013. I believe it was a thursday. I was in my office for an event i was hosting evening with Terrie Williams and so i was just really trying to get my thoughts together. What i was going to say. Im sitting at desk, my laptops and i use aol. And so i saw on the main page there was a blurb about something happening in d. C. I didnt click on it because i was busy. I was in my zone and. Had a tv at the time in my office and i didnt have it on. And then my phone started to ring. It was a after to my phone, just started ringing incessantly from different phone numbers. A lot of the phone i now know were coming from the d. C. Area. I actually picked up one of the calls because it was a connecticut area code number. And at the time my sister was living in connecticut. So you just recently moved there and purchased a coop. And so i answered the call because i thought maybe my sister i, i didnt know why all these calls coming through, but they werent registered my phone so i wasnt going answer it. And when i answered. This one particular call, there was a man on the other line. He was a reporter. He asked to speak me. And then he started me questions about. Miriam. What type of car did she drive . Did i know where she was at . And i just stopped and said, im not sure where this line of questioning is going, but before i could finish, he said, well, apparently you havent been watching the news. I need you to turn on your to cnn. And when i turned on the news, i saw what looked to be my sisters car. I saw looked to be my niece being held by an officer officer. And there was a footer that read susp act killed. Thank you, mark, for that powerful reading of valerie story of loss, survival and, remembrance. We honor the story of miriam and we will continue to uplift her name and aspiration. Valarie carey miriam carey sister and a valued member of the say her name Mothers Network, will be joining us in conversation later. To say her name. Mothers network is a community of mothers and Family Members of black women and friends killed by that works to provide support to mothers and families who also have been victimized. State violence. This community is in many ways a sisterhood of sorrow. They lean on one another for healing and support in what is otherwise a very isolating experience. Its through this solidarity of support and understanding that we also can come together to laugh, have moments of joy, and continue to advocate change in Law Enforcement and communities across the nation on. August 1st, 2016. Maryland. Baltimore county police entered the home of katherine gaines, a 23 year old mother, regarding unpaid traffic. Currently live corrie live streamed the interaction with the cops in her apartment on social media after facebook to cut her feed the officer royce ruby fired into her home killing her and injuring her five year old son. A jury later awarded gaines family, a 37 million award for wrongful death. But that judgment was overturned by the trial judge. But then later reinstated on appeal. To read the words of rhonda daum, karens mother. Please welcome Artist Performer kim yance. My name is rhonda dominguez. Corinne was my 23 year old baby. Oh, she was a very, very feisty young lady from toddlerhood. Very outspoken. Kind of bossy at times. She was just matter of fact. Growing up, she did very well in school and excelled all her classes. She went to a College Prep High School Called Baltimore City college high school, and she was interested in Political Science. During her senior year, she lost interest in Political Science because. There were so many things going on in society that contradicted. She was being taught. Now, i think that was the beginning of her starting to reach out and learn more about the government outside of what was made available, the media. She wanted to go behind the scenes, do her own research. Oh, she was an avid. Oh, my god. I would buy this girl ten books in a week and she would go through them. She read novels, but she also read books about marcus garvey, other informative things. She graduated time and she to go to morgan state university. She only stayed two semesters and she found out she was going to have cody. So i started looking at different colleges that would allow Young Mothers to have their children because wanted her to stay in school. But then she was like, well, you know, thats going to be too much. So she directed her attention to her other passion. She got a cosmetology license and started doing hair and makeup. Oh, she enjoyed it. She bought two homes as rental properties that she used for income. She bought her own vehicle, so she was independent. After michael brown, there was a whole Snowball Effect of police murders. Freddie gray was a neighbor of. I didnt personally know him, but i knew him from the neighborhood and it was literally a few blocks. Everything that unfolded was literally around the corner where she grew up. That was our community. And our community had been robbed. She was an activist role. She wanted teach because she was selftaught. She just wanted to enlighten the masses about things that were going on around her. She has a few spoken word, poems that are out. She would always do her little rants on facebook or, instagram about things that were going in the world. Just this corinne. What does it look like. It looks like an officer shouldnt allowed to make lateral moves within the department if theyve had other issues. This was not royce rubys first shooting. Justice for me is getting officers better training making sure that they to policy and not new ones as they go along. The officer who shot corinne was found not guilty because of the statues of such and such and such. The police code or this and that. They chose to indict the officers. In september 2016, an internal Police Investigation concluded that officer ruby, who had been involved in a fatal shooting, was justified. Shooting Corinne Gaines and would not be. He was subsequently promoted. We to a civil trial. It was second 2018. It was four white jurors, two black jurors who came up with their own amount of 37 million. And they came up with money based on the information that was presented from evidence. The county appeals. And on february 15th, 2019, the day, the anniversary of the settlement, the judge decided to overturn it based on qualified immunity, which had been on the table three times. Before the trial started. Well, he did that because he never expected us to win. He never argued for us to have qualified immunity because he didnt expect us to win, based on the circumstances around the case. Once the jury heard all of the evidence, they came back with 37 million. The jurors. So that says a lot. So needless to say were going to appeal. Its not about the money. We to get the truth out there. When they decided to decline criminal charges. They. We were going to go away. They want us to go. I just want everybody to know that the fight continues. There is no dollar amount that can remotely replace what we have lost. Now i can do without the dollars. I want accountability. I want the people involved to be held accountable. And im going to go out on a limb and, speak for all of us and say, i want them to pay. I want them to feel our pain. They need know. They need to come from behind the wall of protection and held accountable. Thats thats what i want. Corinne felt like was in a fight by herself. So she would be so happy that am continuing her fight in her last hours she felt like because thats the way the stage was set for her to feel and am going to continue battling for her because she had a message to get. No, it wasnt received by everyone in the way that she wanted present it. But i am going to clear it up her. I am going to clear it up for. I am going to deliver it the way i know she would want it to be. Thank you, kim, for that fiery, fierce performance. Thank you so much the fight continues by. We have one more x xer prepared for this evening. On september 15th, 2015, india cager was shot to death at a 7eleven gas station by the virginia peace beach police. Swat who threw flash bang grenades at her car while her four month old son, roman was in the backseat. India died shortly afterward. Roman survived, but he lost his hearing and, his left ear from the effects of the flash bang grenade. Here are words of gina best mother of india. Kaga read by artist and performer her Rosalyn Coleman Rosalyn Coleman. Someone asked me, gina, are you always sad . And im like, yeah. And when i say sad, let me explain what i mean by that. You see the triggers on. Social media. Are you reliving this all the time . Im like, i will never not live it. Never. Not live it. This is now a part us. I hate the part of my life where i felt at one point that it wasnt. Well, i could not relate. Someone having been killed. The police for that. If anything has come out that i can hold after the of my daughter. I can look at another human. Another mother or father or child and you know what i do see you and no has the right to your life because you are not in the right place. I dont believe any of our children were in the wrong place. Romans. Was may 11th. Hes five now. Hes got complete hearing loss in the left from the flash. Hes disabled. Well, from the trauma. Hes acting out. Hes asking for me. Hes really full of rage. Hes waking up in his sleep. He calls me mama. I want me more. I want me more. Our children are trauma ties for life. And once, while his brother evan was in bed, said, grandma, i see angels all. And im like, yes, you do. So how i keep alive, how i keep india alive is with times chimes. One is a butterfly because i call all my granddaughters butterflies. And this one just passed the crystals. And theres one with crystals. Just with. I tell evan every time he hears the chimes that its his mommy coming by. Shes always there. And he loves that youve me say that i walk around with an heart and that is literally the case here is a bleeding heart. I envision that when we say her name and we remember amplify our beautiful daughters and sisters and queens. I like to imagine india answering back. I like to imagine every last one of our babies, our loved ones answering back. And ill imagine a where not only we saying their names, but you are doing it too. And were not speaking against the silence to have someone speak their name. It emboldens us. It gives us strength and encouragement in the lonely times because. There are no words to the level of that we live with. Its off the spectrum. But were here. Were here and were going to do something about this sisters. Its starting with us, and we wont quit. Wow to ginas words so powerfully evoked by roslyn, say her name. Is that something that sisters done about this. Thank you to all actors who so powerfully brought the evocative words of the book of say her name mothers to life. Thank you, roslyn and kim, for those powerful performances. Now, please join me in welcoming to the stage Kimberle Crenshaw. Good evening. Were so glad that so many of you chose to come out and spend time with us this evening an integral of this book has been to trace elements of state against black women to its odious in enslavement. When the bonds that black mothers had with their families were inhumanely and grotesquely disregarded and denied this book is an exercise in bearing witness and being willing to sit with the cascade of emotions that come with bearing witness in excerpts from the mothers of. We are angered by the contemptuous ways in which their loved ones lives were stolen. We are shocked by the callous ways that a mother or a sister was informed or not about the brutal killings of their loved. We are heartbroken to hear about the lifelong scars of the Young Children who witnessed the death of mothers at the hands of police. We are frustrated by the compounding losses and institutional and communal abandon experienced by the mothers and the sisters of the slain. Yet in face of all of this, we are also uplift aided by survivors. Fearless advocacy for their sister or their daughters. In the aftermath of their deaths. We are privileged to see their lives through a special window into those Little Things that only the closest to them can invoke. We a magical moment a butterfly landing around a younger sister at niagara falls. A sister is affectionately called butterball by her father when she was a baby. We sit beside her, reminiscing about how her daughter, began writing on the at two years old, remarking that, this was perhaps the beginning of her daughters as a bohemian visual artist. This book has been written from many hearts and inspires to touch many more. The heart we know is more than a for love and. It is quite literally an organ that keeps us alive. Sadly broken hearts exact a physical toll on the members of say her name Mothers Network. Some who we have lost due to stress related illnesses. We will always and honor the lives of. Vickie coles mack, audrey and cassandra johnson, both early members in our say her name Mothers Network who worked tirelessly to raise awareness about Police Violence against black women. Vickies niece, india, who she raised like daughter, was killed by police in 2016. Cassandra daughter, Tanisha Anderson was by police in the familys front yard. In 2014 and just months ago, a family. The loss of amber carr, sister of a jefferson and a dedicated member of our say her name Mothers Network. Weeks before her death, amber testified the world about how much her lost when her sister killed by a fort worth police. Back in 2019. In the presence of amber seven year old son zion. We are reminded and over again that when black women are killed by the police, when they are taken this earth, the whole is left in their absence, unfilmable for families like amber, vickys and cassandras their grief endures. And too often it becomes deadly. It was a privilege. Know these women in their life and an honor to commit rest of our lives to saying names of say her name to gay. Today we are gathered at the free library of philadelphia, first established in the late 19th century as a library free to all at a time when all the country now we are seeing the consequence of the erasure of our history, whether this is governor desantiss attack against africanamerican studies or the new social studies in the same state where children will be taught that there were benefits to enslavement. We are also living a time of an unprecedented number of book bans, particularly those that featured characters of color or speak, race or racism. These attacks against. Black studies our history and literature are branches of the same tree. A tree whose roots are deeply rotten. Our hope with the publishing of her name. Black womens stories of Police Violence and public silence is to make the issue of Police Killings of black women a national conversation. And doing so at a time of rising censorship and attacks on black knowledge only motivates to further our quest. First, families lose their loved ones to Police Violence. And then the fact theyve lost them becomes loss to their community as becomes lost to history, becomes lost to the movement. We need to ensure that our history and our lives are not or silenced and the first of many steps in that process is to say her name and together with the say her name Mothers Network to remember the lives of the women whove been victims of state violence in this country by bearing to their stories and sharing, you learned with your family and friends. You can play a Critical Role in breaking the ripples of silence surrounding the Police Killings of black women, and in doing so, turning the tide of Racial Injustice in this country. Once for all to do this, we welcome you to join us in our ritual full of remembrance. During each say her name gathering. We say the names women, girls and femmes who been killed at the hands of police on the anniversary of her name. We read every name last year. We read the names. 178 people. And to date, that number has unfortunately, to close to 200. One of our phenomenal artists residence abby dobson will. Now join us to sing a song that she wrote for the campaign. Please stand, if you are able and join as remember some of the lives that have been lost. Mm. Mm hmm mm mm mm mm mm mm. Mm mm mm mm mm mm mm mm mm. Mm. Oh hey. Oh. Oh, oh, oh oh. Oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh. Cell yeah yeah. Cell. Her name. Says, yeah, yeah said it her and hey. Son, girl. Yeah. Say day may. Say day. Hey say say her name. India hager say her name you may say her name say her name corin gave say her name, name say her name say her name hey, michelle. Q so say her name now say her name, say her name. So kayla more say her name say her name and say her name and shelley frey say her name say her name say her name. Tanisha say her name. Say her name alisha. Say her name be. Michelle shirley say her name. Shout shirley say her name michelle. Say her now at Tatiana Jefferson say name is jackie. Say her name and say her. Yeah. Miriam carey say her name. Mariah carey. Her name say her name lately polanco say her name name say, her name say her name. Sandra bland say her name, say her name say her name. Breonna taylor say her name say her name say her name Pamela Turner her name say her name say her name to Rebecca Wilson say her name say her name say her name. Aiyana stanley jones. Say her. Say her name say her name. India say her name say her name you say her name. Deborah danner her name say her name say her name, rickey. Avoid say her name, say her name say her name you, Kathryn Johnston say her name and say her. Say her name, albert spruill say her name and say her name say her name where. Thank you so much for being with us tonight. As you take your seats, abby dobson will bring us a song, captures our for a livable future. And i will come back to the stage. Our emcee dorothy runs. Mame. Mm hmm. Mm mm mm mm. Mm mm mm mm mm mm mm mm mm. Mm mm mm. I wish, i knew how it would feel to be free. I wish, i could break. Oh, the chains hold in. I wish i could say all the things that i should say. Say him. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Same for the world. He how is. I could say all love thats in my my remove. Oh, was that key. Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Wish you couldnt know how feels to me that you see and agree wherever every i should be free i wish i could give oh, well i to get well how wish i could live oh god oh things live how i wish all i could do oh, oh the things that i should feel. Oh, im always oh, do i always try to hang a new one yeah. How wish i could be. Oh, god. Scholar. How sweet. I feel for. Oh say to the sun. Hey, look down at the sea and ill sing cause i know yeah, ill sing. Cause i know, yeah. All the. Oh, how it feels to be free. How free you be free how little free. Will to be me free me. Oh. Oh, thank you until black women and girls are free no one of us will be run to black women girls are free no one of us is oh hell be until black women and girls are free no of us will be you . Thank you. Hey. Fine. And then. We have to read something else. Oh, just. Its time. Wow what a powerful, powerful offering. That was avi. Yes, until black women and girls are free none of us. No one can be free, period. Yes, that is right. Now, we could wrap up with that, but we can have more tonight to offer you. So to build on that powerful singing, build on the powerful testimony weve heard tonight, id like to welcome welcome is back on the stage and were going to discuss the book and the ritual that we all part of. So thank you all for being here. Before we get to the conversation, though, id like to invite you all, if you have questions to write on cards of the cards been provided. Okay. And pass them to an apf staff member who should identifying themselves now. Okay. And will we have time . Those questions later. So for now, i am going to join professor Kimberle Crenshaw on. So i sit here designated chair. Just trying to keep with the program here. So. Well, congratulations on a just Remarkable Program tonight based on remarkable book. Thank you. Thank so much all the work that her name has. And, uh, African American policy forum also. So what was the process like . Curating these testimonies . Your book . Mm hmm. Everything you all heard tonight came out of this book, these powerful testimonies of sister and mothers of women murdered state violence. All came out of the say her name book and you put it all together. How was that . What was that like . What was that experience like . Well, first of all, i have to thank the mothers and the sisters of say her name who were willing to trust us, willing to allow us to listen to, their conversations with each other to be there for the moments when remembering their ones was and also the moments where remembering remembering their loved brought them joy. Um, the book is a composite ation of the many moments that we spent together. Our mothers come together annually for mothers weekend in new york. We also bring them together for other events. And during that time, we always opportunities to sit and listen to the stories the things that come back to them about their loved ones, the things that theyre going through in the various cycles of shock and of grief the various when their demands for justice are either met or, interrupted. Um, and throughout this process, we would ask them to sometimes bring their ones in the room with them how did their ones speak, what was their sense of humor. What were some of the favorite things they like to do. And sometimes we would the mothers and then the sisters and say were going to have a conversation with you as your loved ones, because we want to paint a three dimensional character um we want to know them for more than the thing that happened to them. We want to be able to imagine the life that should have been. And so a lot the interviewing we started as we were writing a play called to say her name the lives that should have been. So weve had multiple hours talking with them and listening as they laughed and as they cried. Um and those have been reduced to paper and they reviewed their and that became the testimonies, the tributes, the memories are currently in the book. Well, thats thats so beautiful. That was something i really appreciate about the book and the program tonight is there was recounting of the horror of the murder of these women and holding the accountable and the demands, but also stories about what women were like, the memory is the fond memories, as you said. What could have been what could have been could have been. You know, we started this process in 2015 at the very first protest rally. And one of the things we wanted to do was to have someone else bear witness to the worst that had happened because we didnt want the mother and the Family Members to have to rehearse that repeatedly. Yeah. So in our our protest in union square, each mother was by someone who told the story about what happened. Someone else who was able to lift up what the what the family was currently going through and then the Family Member would say what justice means to them. And that has been a pattern that we have done throughout all of this. Say her name moments. We were really moved at one of our events at ucla. We were able to many artists there to surprise the mothers. Abbie curated that wonderful evening and it was one of the first times that they were able to hear back how moving, how touching, how, how, how deeply evocative their own words are of kind of justice that they are looking for. And so they the actors were able to embody it and they could see how moving their demands of are. And so this is built from that moment. Yeah. I love that idea of what the Family Members demands for justice which may not be and often many times theyre not the same. Yeah, the same. Or what the state says. Thats right. Means yeah. So its, its so important to hear what we say is for our ones and for our community. Yes. Yeah, i appreciate that. The other thing i really appreciate is youve created a place where the mothers and other Family Members, sisters can come together and support each other, which also isnt part of the regular socalled criminal justice system. And it actually i mean, weve learned as we witness our initial was, just bring together who wants to and let them tell us they need and theyre there. There have been there have been moments that weve been privileged to witness that i think underscores how certain kinds of hurt that only people whove experienced it can touch. And theres there are certain permissions to live life that only other people whove experienced the tragedy can give. Yeah so. One of our one of our moments we had a vicki mac and dorie who i earlier whos passed. Shed been grieving india, her niece, who she raised as a daughter some time and we were we were all to dinner was actually her birthday and she grieving at the moment saying that india always she was going to bring her to new york and and she didnt it would be this way. So there was there was a moment of absolute heartbreak and then thinking is one of the funniest people we knew. And then she just said something. And i dont even remember what it was. But everyone cracked up. And then she cracked up. And then it became like this, laughing fit. And it was such a relief and a release because as they said when we saw other people being able to, to live, even they were grieving and even as they were demanding justice, theyre still living life that gave them permission to open themselves up again and to finding moments of even in the face of tragedy. Yeah, yeah. So you describe the public surrounding police of black women as conspiracies of silence and forms of dispassion and complacency. Can you walk us through these terms, mean and what we can do to end this complacence and silence. So i talk about this in terms of kind caladan rule consequences that are acceptable and by accepting evil i mean when theres silence in the of it, when the dont fit within the available frames we have for understanding what antiblack looks like the available frames for marking what anti black state violence looks like certain become illegible. The circle stance is the ability to say, oh, i know that story. If the story hasnt been told, then we dont know the story. Dont fill in the facts. We dont. Oh, this is entirely doable. And consequently we dont gather it. We dont hold these families up as families have experienced something that we are collectively vulnerable to and therefore invested in and and that sends a message. That sends a message that were not going to get angry about this, not going to march about this. Were not going to demand accountability about this. And when we dont demand accountability when we send the message it also sends a message to the families. Yeah, we call it the loss of the loss. Yes, there is the loss. But then when we dont speak it, when we dont name them, when we dont demand accountability, were basically saying that theres something that happened to your loved one that is accepted, you know, and it doesnt command our attention and it takes. Gina, you to talk about it, which im sure she will in a moment, but she she talks about how people would basically what did india do to get herself killed, which is an engendering of of vulnerability to Police Violence that has all of the trappings of a rape culture. Its just kill culture. Yeah. You know, you put yourself in that situation either by riding in a car with the father of your child or, you know, being in a home that that is subject to raid all the ways that we have learned how rape culture makes women for what happens to them. There is a parallel that makes black women responsive able for the things that happened to them. So bearing witness is the beginning of saying no to that clatter of constant being in consequential. You know we will say we will not close our eyes this we will go through the that are necessary to say no you do not get to steal the lives of our loved ones and. Yes the engendering of antiblack violence is important. All the antiblack violence happens not just with our sons. Yeah, yeah. Another way in which this silence occurs and kind of devaluation of violence against black women is the devaluation of black in particular. And as we saw this evening, the fact that black women, their children with them is not a shield. Its not a shield. This something that our work shares in common because just about every book ive written from killing the black body to torn apart, all about the devaluation of black mothers and what you were just saying about black women being blamed for being killed . We are also blamed for every harm that happens to our children including them killing us. Yeah, its your fault that your children dont have the they need. Yes. Or housing yes. Were going to take them and put them foster care because youre a neglectful mother or what i started work was the prosecution of black women for all sorts of things who are pregnant and, using drugs or never happened to any other women. Yes. Never happened in your your. Has been foundational to filling out the question how can this happen to mothers especially in the of their children. Right. Yes. Everything happens to women in the company of their children. Black motherhood is all your work shows has always contested. Yeah, always been devalued. Yeah. Largely linking all the way back to the necess of doing so in order to alienate in order to commercially rise, in order to treat people as livestock. Youve got to treat mothering as something different. When involves black people, then you do. When it involves others. And so this is a continuation of that dynamic that is been fully acknowledged or interrupted at all because those stereotypes are so deep that we are innately danger to our children or neglectful to our children. And we have to get rid of those stereotypes. Now, part of how were doing that is the black mothers out. Yes, black mothers out. So i think this is a good segway. Yes. To bringing up the members of the say her name mothers to members are now both here and so please a warm welcome to sister of miriam carey and gina best mother of india fraser think we we. Look as you can already see voices of these women is essential essential to the book to the project, to all of our work. I think thats something we share in common as well. Voices of black mothers have to be at the forefront, so first question to both of you. What was it like hearing your words so powerfully spoken on stage . So it was. It was an out of body experience to hear someone speak my words words. It was saddening and hypnotic. But necessary and. Yeah, and the the actors did such a good job of embodying. Absolutely. Yeah. That inflection is as if she were in my office with me, you know, the way she it. Yeah. And we never spoke so thank you for delivering the story the way you did. Yeah, thank you, angie. Im not sure if you here, but youve heard before your words spoken, so maybe you can say what you feel about that. I know so, yeah. It feels is in my heart. Yes, yes. Ive heard the actors, the sisters speak the words of us and then our daughters as well. And to echo valerie catharsis. And i want to just park that word for just a moment. Catharsis. We for me it feels collaborative that someone has taken the time to get know and to for very moment, to use your word, embody the spirit of our loved ones been snatched away. So viciously and with the most beyond vitriol, just their lives snuffed out. So it gets lonely when the silence is all that seems to be surrounding you. So i didnt want to take the word catharsis for a moment because in listening to kim and my other sisters and the mothers and i started thinking about, why is it and im forgive me if i jump ahead, but why is it that this evil, this this crime these repetitive crimes are done against . Why is it that theyre also trying to erase our history erase us through the silence . I think of all the whys. And one thing that i came up with is that, again, that word, catharsis, that idea sister said, i didnt know i was going to with this. Is that theyre trying to hide the feelings of what its like again babies in the car our daughters and all they must have felt is the bullets were piercing their bodies their flesh i often like to think of that i dont like but i do and then also trying to teach our children that we dont exist in terms of our history. Can you all hear because i might just do something weird. Okay. All right. Nonetheless so im wanted to share just this moment with, you all before our sisters take back catharsis. Catharsis is always and this book i group for those whove been victimized and are survivors. But the perpetrators and that seems to be what theyre trying to do in this island in trying to eliminate critical theory they dont want there to feel what we feel every day at their so theyre seeking catharsis by trying to ignore the deep evil hate that theyve done to us for generations and babies in the car is reminiscent of what our ancestors mothers went through. Their babies are snatched the breeding farms. Thats why this is so important. What dr. Kim has done in carving out the space say her name but shes also reclaimed what say her name means. It is for black women black women killed by police. Its not to be coopted by any and everyone to remember. Dont get me wrong, i we certainly understand your grief and your pain. But this is a continual, continual black women, which is why dr. Kim had to carve out the space that she did. Cathar voices is not for the perpetrator. And theyre seeking catharsis is by not teaching their children to evils that their ancestors have done and have done to our loved ones ones. You all can tell them, im as thank you can. Yes, thanks, gina. Valerie, in the book speak about how your experience in the police force separate you to have the talk with your nephew was to prepare them the reality of antiblack violencd can you a little bit about how you came. Consider that this is a conversation we have to have with black girls as well as boys. Yes. Its is really unfortunate as a retired nypd sergeant, while i was on the job, always thought my nephews as black men because unfortunately their skin can seem to be a threat just in itself. Im never in a million years that i think that my sisters who were are professionals, their own right, that they would ever considered a threat not being in the act, committing a crime or, having a gun. How it that a woman with a baby tow driving is a threat that you feel the need to unload multiple guns into back room in the back so its no one is immune to Police Violence obviously my sister wasnt immune to it i wasnt immune to it because i was affected by it and so unfortunate at least this is a conversation thats not just something that we have speak to with our boys. All men is something that we have talk about with our sister and our aunts and, our mothers, because they too can be affected by Police Violence because you never know what type of youre gointo encounter. And type of turn of events that hes going to create. That can take your life. Yes. Yes so kim, in what ways, can we have a more understanding of black vulnerability that implicates this gendered and intersex chanel way that black women are impacted by state violence . How can we expand our survive all tools . And i think valerie was a bit to that already in ways that not see black boys and men as being targets. Also black girls and women well, i building on. You know what, val just said first of all just the recognition that the risk is is a risk of how our blackness has been seen framed and interpreted as an indicator of potential danger and gender does not arrest that right. Right. Not for black. No, not for black women. So there are pieces of this that we recognize and we kneunderstat happens when the purse clutch happens, when black body is encountered. We know what happens when the elevator door opens and, the people, you know, on the elevator see a black body and they jump. We know that what we dont know is that being gendered as female does not provide protection against that. So its real that in many of the cases where black women do lose their lives the context is often when the police have been called to help right and they a black body that is never seen as a damsel in distress, not seen as someone who is in fear, not seen someone who has needs, but seen as michelle quso was, who didnt utter a word but the police said that the look on her face gave him the sense that he and his half dozen Police Officers were at risk. So just recognize that we have only a part the story about how how blackness is and in it is a risk factor for generating violence framed as defense of self or framed as defense of others and then recognizing what that means terms of the data. So black women are the group that is most likely to be unarmed when they are killed of all dyads. Black women are less than 10 of the female population and they are more than 30 of those women who are killed. These are these are significant, but we dont talk about them because the absolute is not as much as men are killed. So it is for us to be concerned about our fathers and sons and brothers. Theres nothing about this that is meant in any way to say that we dont have a huge problem. But its also the case that the disparity black women and other is also a racialized loner, that we need to be able speak to. Yes, yes yes, yes gina, back to you in the you describe how after life was stolen and what you call kill culture, that there was this a layer of violence by justified buying her death in the same in which victims of rape have been. And we talked a little bit about already can you speak to how this is used . Not only justify the deaths of black women, but also to suppress the outrage that these deaths should but dont generate enough of. All right. Ill start by saying that most of us hold our mothers sacred and dear. Most of us, if its not a toxic relationship or narcissistic one, they hold our mothers safe and on a high pedestal. Thats the first person that we know gives us nourishment and tends to our needs that is embedded in us not only as children, but remember that earliest memory. Okay, for most of us, or for those of all whove been blessed to have good mothers. Okay, the silence comes from no matter what. And i dont know if this is the case, im just introducing something totally different. No. What if youre in a School Ground . Dont talk about my mama. Its to be a fight. Those are fighting words because youre talking my mama. But very rarely is it daddy. Its just. So is the sacredness of the motherhood once again, valerie meriam was in the presence of her, her daughter and india, a presence in front of her son, her infant baby sake mothers. So the problem problem and im going to use this amalgamate well is just layer upon layer about silence dont talk about my mom but im wondering if well mothers killed i cant talk about them either lest it happens to me or whatever thought it is just something i dont know. Thats holding. But we dont have will defend our mama. But were not defending our sisters whove been murdered by the end of all these i dont get it and. Im sorry if i forgot the question. Well, the question just about your observation in the book that there is this layering of harm. First, the violence, killing of your loved one, but then the failure for there to be outrage over it in our communities as much as should be well, because our loved ones shouldnt be right. As dishonorable again is the rape. Its the she. They did something to bring this upon themselves. It is the assumption no matter where the you are you have to be prim and proper. And ms. Polly do right all the time. And if youre seen as anything contrary to that, youre trash it is again the violation, the sacredness of being a mother or sister, a daughter is the violation of im going to say this word, the divine feminine, the women are the ones and we are birthing our children. Were raising them. Were doing the absolute best we can with that and being on a, you know, in this society sometimes secondary but tertiary level in terms how youre viewed. But when were murdered, its this silence, particularly with black women and it hurts. I want you all to know that what dr. Kim has put together is not just the group of obituaries its not. These are life. And i see one of my classmates was love you. I see you. Okay. I just caught you. We went to Duke Ellington school of the arts where india went. Yes, just caught that. Okay. We classmates, my daughter, india went there. Oh, goodness. Yeah wow. And she and oak. Oh and a thank you and youve had my baby tonight so we were classmates and well talk Duke Ellington school of the arts. I was there toni terry all of them all of them will talk yeah. India went there as well. And youre talking about gifted women. Women whose lives were valuable and precious and. Yet were seeing less than chattel. And what dr. Kim was saying, they have to divorced from even viewing us as human and to even hold that trigger. Mm. It pointed at the car with babies in the car when we got those calls im going to divert to, to val family. I want you all to know so you hear those words that your daughter is dead, shes been murdered. Im thinking and im ashamed of. Well, what happened . Was she doing something bad . Her first thought and im ashamed of that. I carry that shame and carry that pain, which is why when dr. Kim coined the phrase, say her name, that was a year before india was murdered, had heard it, but i heard it is applicable to sandra bland. Never in a million years would i think it would apply to my. Mm hmm. And were for their names to be amplified. Their lives be remembered. Were fighting for the laws in this nation to changed so that qualified immunity is not something they can hide behind with all of their other racist and nonsense that spew with their hatred thats then parroted in the media. This has to change because we cant tell you how much we love and miss loved ones gone are the days of empty platitudes. Family. We need you to hear the pleading of us as loved ones. Im going to give the mic to valerie because im about, you know. Im just this is so in us its we cannot it or push past or rewind this is continuing grief. Yes and now intergenerational theyre killing black women femmes. Trans women at. And no one is saying anything. Use your voice, please talk to your families. Those who feel that they are not racist. They dont see color. How can you not see color . You dont see the non black. You dont see me me. Thats we have to say for me and why every woman in this book and those who we dont and unfortunately whose lives may be stolen at the hands of rogue police. Every last one of our loved ones were killed by. Men, at least one. Thank you for that, gina is punk. You everyday. This is not yesterday. 2015 2014. Its every single day time stops and when we are forced to look at our lives from the moment our loved one was murdered thats the everything before then who are we and then who are we . Because were still searching that and we have to live with this every day and have to deal with. Thats why you know im the microaggressions the the the just this all im sorry and you know thank you all for being here. Well, thank you thank you. I think this this is why we have to hear the voices of the people who are directly impacted by violence because no one else could express it that and were so grateful for your voices tonight. So were going to turn now to part where audience gets to ask. And kevin has the car and is going to read the questions for us. Sure. Thank you, dorothy that and thank you to our mothers for joining us. Weve got so many great insights, questions from the audience today. In the interest of time im just going to summarize some of the thoughts and just move into the final question to take out of the event. Folks have talked about what does it mean to demand accountability . What does accountability look like . People are making connections between scholarship. What does law, you know, have law professors here . What role does law have in combating law . Often authorizes people are reflecting back on both gina and while sharing stories about the children left in their families. What what does it mean to witness this violence and what does it mean to continue to support these children people are making connections with racist violence projects happening within the Philadelphia Community evictions policies legal policies affect and which are all part of this nexus of violence that impacts black women and communities of color and people are lifting up intersectionality as a vital a prism which is often being attempted to be unwritten in our laws at this moment in. So thank you so much for your comments and i know that everyone here appreciates them perhaps as was the lasting last reflection which came from our audience as well. How do we continue to the cnn Mothers Network . What can we how can we do to continue to support this network has been a way to uplift these names which are often erased so i think its different the audience. Yeah. So do you want to answer that anybody member of the network here . I would say to support the say her Name Campaign support works of apf definitely by the book i would say have these conversations your family and to see how you can involved you can involved the volunteer and you can donate and you can if i feel that we all have our own of influence we all influencers you dont know who you can touch and how you can lift your voice to help amplify voices. So many, so many different thoughts. So trying to stay on the question, i would. One of the aspects of the art of ism that we do is often to try to capture what remains illegible to train the kind of thinking that we would have to engage in order to look for the that our dominant narratives dont tell us about the the the the tshirts the sweatshirts that represent say your name. They look like word puzzles. Theyre actually names of black women whove been killed by police and we use that graphic to indicate what to be done. Most people dont want to ignore. They dont want to marginalized, but they know what they dont know. So this is basically to say youre going to have to work at it because as our media dont have the to elevate what happens to black women. Many people at the margins, many of our movements are focused on unidimensional way. They arent able to really speak to the intersections of vulnerability. Our histories dont tell us what the consequences of erasure has been over. We have been talking about state sanctioned violence against black women of its connected to other forms of violence against black women. And we dont we dont have a history of how black women have fought against this over time. And because we dont have that when there are important historic moments that come up and that legibility becomes absolutely essential, our survival as a people, we missed the mark. Thats what happened when anita hill showed up talking about Sexual Harassment and people said, what is that and why is a black woman talking about that not black women invented Sexual Harassment. Well, thats true. To address seeing how the kind of sexual abuse that we experienced since we arrived in these shores was rationalized as so because we dont know that history we dont know about rosa parks. We know that she fought as rape crisis person. Shes a person who came into politics defending black women whove sexually abused because we dont know we think that these issues women are separate from the issues around. And so when people say, why should we use intersectionality, its been undermined. Not useful as the college board, you see, i feel that way about it. This is what intersectionality helps us say what we ordinarily miss. Right . So i would encourage legibility greater to read between the cracks, see what is falling out of our our, our, our education out of the partial ways that we advocate of our inability. See how social is reinforced across race, gender, class sexuality, all the different ways that we have not fully been present for other■z so that that is you know say her name is the embodiment a lot of people say what is intersectionality read what these what these mothers have to say its not some highfalutin theory its the way our life have been structured and. Its the kind of knowledge we need do in order to create transformative possibilities. Thats right. Thats right. Well, i think that a powerful word to close our program on tonight. Thank you so much for. Those closing remarks. And i want to give some thanks now special thanks, valerie and gina for joining us tonight. Yes you for sharing your stories. Thank you for. Continuing to fight for justice thank you for being an inspiration to us thank you. And i just want to say thank you to my daughter who came out. She was. Miriams first niece and stand up shelvey. Thank you. Oc special thanks to Anthony Arnove as hes still here who opened our program today oh very obvious hiding behind the camera i could okay there you are thank you so from haymarket books which published this book for being for opening something the warm welcome gave us today. Thank you. I special thanks to our wonderful actors today and your powerful performance says yes. Rosalind Margaret Odette and kim yancey, thank you for. Those just magnificent mind blowing performances and abby dobson and for your rendition, your offering just off the charts off the charts. Thank you so much, kim. I want to thank for inviting me to be part this special program sacred program. Its been honor and a to be part of this just unbelievable and let me thank i call dorothy my sister in law in law whatever we get together. You know, just go there smoke. Yeah. Oh, sure. Its my pleasure my pleasure. My pleasure to be here. And i thank you to the whole team at fruit, the free library of philadel phia thats hosting us tonight and. The entire team at apf for all its creative memory and hard work that brought all this together. And then thank you all of you for being here tonight. And we hope that you are going to take back with you. You learned tonight at a call for action. Tell people about, as valerie said, you can find out more about apf. You can read the book, you can tell your friends of. Theres a lot could do. So please do that learn more about how to be part of this campaign are you can visit a apf at apf dot org back slash say her name where you can steps to become part the campaign and advocate and stand up for this campaign and you can participate in Upcoming Events such as the nat ninth annual say name anniversary on december 14th. So finally, you can pick up a copy of the book, say her name on your out and have it signed by these illustrious, wonderful women right here who were the stars of this program tonight. So thank you. Thank you so much