Transcripts For CSPAN2 Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20160615

Consumer protection in financial peril that is an independent industry cannot be fired by the president it is not subject to the appropriations power as they are taking a number of actions that are outside of the public visibility for instance they are gathering financial records or creditcard records of hundreds of millions of americans with no discussion that than i could find and knows scrutiny or accountability for what these agencies are doing because you can see they are independent they are not part of the administration but on the other side you have the federal Communications Commission with neutrality it is widely reported in a cave out of the ftc and was directed by the president may be the president should direct the ftc but then there has to be some ownership of that. So there is a lot of examples of domestic overreach and not even owning that bennett hiding behind the various structures of bureaucratic independence which i think is quite troubling. I do think the problem is one for congress because that is the only place you could have the truly effective check. That is of great transition Congress People have promised they would keep president trumpery team didnt so what realistic can congress do . Who wants to take that . [laughter] walter. I think just on the notion of statutory claims it he says i will not comply with Congress Directs me to you do then that is at the heart of this. Congress can exercise the appropriation is authority if vice and Consumer Authority fighting whoever is the next president the senate should confirm all executive branch nominees for whatever party is. Because they agree with the president s policies i think congress has ample authority if they choose to exercise it trying to make mileage out of claims that a president when they have undertaken to enact legislation so were not in disagreement. I think it is under feet when people say dont worry about a candidate from because of the white House Counsel. [laughter] and i faked i would be more comfortable if i knew who the attorney general would be in making judgments. It is very hard for congress to have these significant power they have all the big powers but if the Congress Wants to Say Something about immigration they cannot place constraints or both houses of congress overruling the department of labour relationship and that is the prerogative but it is very hard to congress for congress to take back so the solution should not be running to court it has weakened the institution when they seek legal redress getting back to the question that we didnt have enough time to insert but yes, yes they might be able to do so but congress through the confirmation it has to wills said its to spousal they are soft waves of insolence better quite profound. Which is unjust the critics of the Obama Administration to do whatever they want it encourages bad to say that is right. So this idea that congress is dysfunctional and there is rhetoric from the things theyre actually doing the president do it didnt do anything for immigration they issued a directive because Copper Congress apprised him to do so not the president. Of course, he did it with the president s approval. There is nothing illegitimate about that but the rhetoric at the time is congress is an acting i have to take the law into my own hands and i understand why there is political pressure to do that but to take a paragraph out of the legal brief since congress will not legislate to exercise discretion discretion blob blob lot to provide or congress conferred upon and 86 to delay immigration. That is not what they do. The Public Discourse is not in terms of the boring Statutory Authority is. And i went cautioned the Democratic Administration to be a little more modest in the way they sell things and to explain they are not acting as the autocratic president. I will stay with you for the next question how do we think about the legal and moral defense ability of drone were fair with the enhanced interrogation techniques of president bush . We have an entire panel here devoted to that question and i think it is probably of mine. Online. This is live journalism. I dont have anything to add everyone in this audience is just as entitled as i am if they take it is immoral or not. So there are many legal questions a whole slew and drones in particular under statutory law isnt executive orders in terms of sovereignty in human rights the legal question does not reduce to a simple question i hope what has come now has been released demonstrate these are hard indelicate legal questions each of which insist upon its own assessment to the people will come to different views so that structural question may not be as important as the moral question but can you violate a statute . When you think it is in the best interest of the United States to do so . I think the answer really does matter is it the be all and end all just a question for the constitutional lawyers. I bet youre ghana say torture is still legal the matter what. And those who think that killing is the worst day and torture admits that. But one significant difference it is no exception whatsoever now there is more arguments under which some people force can be used and the forces the Obama Administration for starting in 2009 with the drone campaign, was contested to say it does matter if this is day then ship the part of what is remarkable is the rules have been contested but it is the conversation about the most elemental rules taking place among the elites with the places that our rich in the administrations were not claiming a basic authority. And the threat of a new normal to be put to an end there has been deep disappointment with respect to global wars but if you go to the legal arguments and even as the citizens are subjected to this claim to power the outcome is very much the same mib are left with this day Democratic Administration it is something quite extraordinary that is a bureaucratic infrastructure that has become entrenched that permits the use of lethal force based on internal interpretations of for based authority that could be cast aside with no review whatsoever. Jefferson powerball once you finish reading all of his books there is a new book out called targeting americans very subtle a nuanced thoughtful but the opening sentences on september 30th 2011 the executive period judge denies States Government deliberately killed citizens of the United States that sets it starkly but he is the first to say how difficult these questions are. One striking thing that i take issue with he is right to if we were to have a more robust public debate for the use of force the result may be more broad and aggressive and not only on the right to to say were wrong that the due process clause applies with the constitutional bill of rights does not apply a lot of people on the lefthand the right have said that i dont think it is right but similarly i feed it is a mistake to think the end of the Obama Administration is the same place at the end of the Bush Administration just like this strategy the he released as today or the day before it is back to the global war on terror and insist it is not only against al qaeda but all islamic terrorist of any kind but basically that we should use force the world over from developing the capabilities and there is a broad theory to keep them from the capabilities before a they struck there is a huge difference s. A. A practical matter from what the war powers thought to be in the authority said this may be the best youll ever get. But i am not saying thats paul reilly insisted is the same as the use of lethal force intervention but the legal interpretation and restrictions recognize there is so much that you could get to the same point when you think about transportation for those forces and i do think there is the real difference from what is authorized but in the terms of the policy debate to itt would have a more robust debate if there wasnt as much continue being secrecy. I think there is too much with those policy issues that may be helped by the release of the playbook i am somewhat skeptical but in our name under this policy people are killed and numbers rigidities have not been disclosed in domestically talking internationally, we dont have the results of investigations with respect to credible allegations the president had recognized and named the killing of a u. S. Citizens that they would receive the results of the investigation but have not done the same with the vast majority of people who were killed in these kinds of strikes and there is a real danger the public debate is not just skewed by i entirely inaccurate and that we as a public are deeply distanced from the realities on the ground from those are suggested to use policies. Next question. Near and dear to my heart, please comment on the increased use of president ial signing statements. [laughter] this goes to walter because he was head of the administration and then he approved of their use and of course, statement dash signing statements when he says the sections of this to statute the big controversy, the bush years until the second term rather Reagan Administration but it has picked up for those ideas they that they were not crazy. [laughter] all the a savage could take something as technical as a signing statement and turning into a journalistic issue. [laughter] first of all, the issue is it cannot be signing statements with the issue has to reread can the president declined to enforce an act of congress to be unconstitutional that he is signing into law. I understand that and i will come to that the when a president does that then he ought to tell people he is doing it and as soon as he signs the al lot. And now all i dont believe in the modern era that it is feasible to say the president s authority to apply with a constitution but his only choice was to veto the omnibus act with the kind of military pay because it and tell me he doesnt know or hast appointed special people larger small the president can say the supervision of this bill which could be construed common a few harvard directing the appropriations act you need to put the jerusalem a and israel on the passport. I have no trouble with that but i think this administration and any administration there is never one ever has or ever will step aside propositions with the authority to enforce laws and the Supreme Court has repeatedly authorize the presidency there for when he does it, the congress is acting whether theyre right to or wrong. But this. Respectful of your but that you should decline to enforce it. But i and directing were acknowledging the its three general and i do not believe that. Is best judgment. Couple but to have a single piece to say it is unconstitutional. There is always the provision with the omnibus bills would assure response . I think the modern practice where the president has a signing ceremony were people clapping he sues a statement to say by the way six of these is unconstitutional. Leased to veto the bill that they had no choice i understand their dilemma with the entire budget and on either hand if you are in congress there is very little downside weekend as you know, they will sign it anyway. With the dubious proposition proposition and from that static perspective to say if he doesnt sign the bill washington will come to its knees. But from a dynamic perspective there will be fewer bills of constitutional problems i will veto every bill. You do that once and then they get the message. Or he could call them into session. I agree. I dont believe he has to think they are unconstitutional but the issue is whether or not he could sign a bill. Were adding a time unfortunately. I am so sorry. And to now leading into the board of directors what do you think of the institution i believe the white House Counsel should be abolished. [laughter] you needed Ethics Officer is somebody to make contracts with the coast guard. And an interest to give the bill would vice it should come from the attorney general and they should get that for the office of Legal Counsel and the person whose advice he wanted those positions i will go up one more is somebody to help interpret these opinions. [laughter] basically we will hear someone who has served even know what should have been abolished. [laughter] [applause] mad as secretary we pledges 72 river delhi get to the next president of the devastates United States. [applause] the Inspector Generals report has alleged misconduct by a workers at the canaveral seashore. And that a House Oversight committee hearing. To our 20 minute hearing. [inaudible conversations] good morning the committee on oversight come together we can declare a recess said in the time for grieving hearing today about the oversight of the National Park service to represent the 100 years it was founded it should be a milestone but instead we find an agency increases. And the public is attending a in record demurs that we are still having problems and to provide recreational opportunities but the park system for the enjoyment education and inspiration for future generations that does not work with so many multiple cases of employee misconduct when it is distracted from its mission. No doubt those tens of thousands of people will have bad apples causing disruption in and heartachepropa of their not dealt with appropriately the problem becomes worse. The department of interiorghligt Inspector General highlights how the agency is failing and protect its employees in particular from Sexual Harassment. Ther warning sho is just another report or another part across the country Sexual Harassment of the river district was so bad that 13 victims directly with to the secretary of then interior but this is in going on for a decade forsu cowardice nonstop there. In the history of inappropriate behavior. And was also founder to make misleading statements that of a letter of reprimand was just days did enough methodeman of punishment. Then instead of firing is a repercussions the service was poorly managed and for over a decade they failed to meet the requirements claims could take years to process as they fail to maintain a program and then to finalize claims from whistleblowers to ziad this regard of the process to tolerate Sexual Harassment and then to hold management accountable for those transgressions and then to oversee the contract hopefully we will get into that as well. From the failures to maintain this ethical standards for overseeing the Ethics Program to its own ethical failures. A book don they failed to get the book deal and afterwards tried to cover his tracks when they follow the rules we cannot expect anybody at the agency turn a b something needs to change than it needs to change fast. We cannot turn a blind eye that the roads the faith in the government to destroyyhard w growl their hardworking and dedicated to working in a hostile environment manageresses they have their back and will take care of them is it creates a culture is cost dial in and should not be tolerated there are ethical problems and lack of plans to deal with the backlogs inconsistency of laws and rules are some of s the things that plague the park service and that is why we have the hearing today. I yield back the balance ofnd my time i recognize the balance of my time. Todays hearing involves a variety of allegations of the National Park service and unfortunately speeding several years plenty thank our witnesses for being here today the Deputy Inspector will be to issue many reports for example, the Inspector Generals office at the Denver Service center andat the improper use at yellowstone National Park. And as a result of the Inspector Generals work we also learned that he violated federal ethics it thro rules when he published a book about the departments Ethics Office even though he does not appear to have benefited financially he shows contempt for the ethics rules when he said hein would probably do the same thing again that is amazing. He would do it again. Because he always pushes the envelope. Said chairman talkedabout route and the confidence ofhing government and that kind of attitude is the very thingla that leads to low morale. And a lack of confidence. And as a result he has now been stripped of his authority at the National Park service and is undergoing mandatory ethics training himself right now. Most of the reports from the Inspector Generals office and this is very upsetting a long pattern of Sexual Harassment and paul style working violence at the grand canyon district the former superintendent received a report in 2013 documenting multipleine whetheru allegations but that report did not determine another investigation was warranted or should be pursued one year later 13 employs and allegations of their abusive behavior to the secretary of interior they refer these to the Inspector General and the office found 22 other individuals kodak reported experiencing a or witness a sexualharassment and hoss style Work Environment. They also found the previous reports of Sexual Harassments womack were not properly investigated orew reported in addition to the last few days the new report the pattern of Sexual Harassment against three female employees against anatioa supervisor at the canaveral seashell or. These rays very serious issues with the right to work kerry anywhere including the National Parks without fear that they may be harassed or to be retaliated against in the equal Opportunity Employment Program to handle complaints of retaliation leading some of the most basic they demonstrate how criticalich with the antidiscrimination act to pass by the vote and finally i want to highlightrial the funding for the rehabilitation for the Memorial Bridge. It was built across the Potomac River with the Lincoln Memorial and unfortunately the bridge had deteriorated. Ed. If a complete overhaul has i it to not begin it ise is slated to be shut down within five years. Cost estimat rehabilitating the bridge will cost 250 million while the National Park service tours rotation budget in 2016 is 208 million this is an issue we need to address and discuss as well. Voraciously look for to the testimony and i yield back. Spirit we will hold the of record five legislative days we will now recognize our witnesses starting with the director of National Park Service Department of interior the deputy Inspector General of the United States department of the interior all witnesses are to be sworn please rise and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you give is the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth . Let the record reflect each answer to the affirmative. We have your written statements but to allow time to appreciate if you limit that testimony to five minutes to be part of the record. You are now recognized. The key chairmen and Ranking Member and members of the committee i am here to discuss the National Park service so i ask the complete statement be put to in the record. Historic rights and those after the American Public and we see record breaking in the haitian and the resulting economic cavity we are accomplishing all of that on a budget less size of houston and when we ask more of our employees more than ever before with although work you do there will manage to protected and maintains by a for freshener were forced. But they hold themselves to higher standards. But by our very picture we make mistakes and cannot stop improper situations and keeping it from half pain again. The vast majority but justp. The point in and then refine their ranks and sometimes those happen at the top. Last year irish men but my goal was to inspire in the gauge more americans and our National Parks. I wrote this book a minute capacity that the proceeds benefit to the nonprofit publisher in the congressionally established foundation provide donated that copyright and received no personal benefit from sales of the book that was never my goal however i wrote it without fear regarding responsibility to establish follow process including that Ethics Office as a result i receive formal reprimand and an athlete actively participating in the extremes and now i have been removed and i was wrong i failed initially to except my mistake and apologized to all employees and i urge them all to learn from my mistakes and ask for ethics guidance when it is needed i offer my apologies to the American People that tested meet to uphold the highest tender its. Into hold employees accountable is essential and when they are identified we must follow due process in some cases it refers thector case to the office of Inspector General we do that to ensure the impartial review we refer the case of the improper purchase of firearms and together they ensure the situation was fully investigated and held accountable and in other cases the carruthers the National Park service taking harassment avery seriously for the reason of Sexual Harassment the leadership was extremely disappointed and reacting quickly to change the conditions. Zero tolerance and committed to fighting of what allowedam this to develop and retaken approach toward addressing harassment we fix those conditions that allow thatha to take place it is treated with respect and dignity to have them engage in includes Senior Leaders this super intendant will be selecting a new superintendent and as theyre learning from otheraras organizations from the department of defense the National Oceanic andndsurv Atmospheric Organization to understand the prevalence of Sexual Harassment at every little while dash level we are committed for every securiti employee to work in a secure environment to with respect b that concludes my oral statement. Ag for the opportunity to testify for grace series of reports that has been issued with misconducted mismanagement the office of Inspector General serves as the independent objective body that violates public trust it has a great deal of experience in covering up the next ethics in all those that have positions of trust make their misconducted detrimental to the operations of the department the reputation to work federal and employees for cry remain convinced as a whole those engaged in wrongdoing or in the minority unfortunately this conduct cast a shadow overer the entire department. That looms large following with their recent investigative reports including those substantiating grand canyon. A netflix violation ms by the director and misuse ofou the chief ranger at yellowstone and if they failed to take proper action rene reported wrongdoing. Similarly after and investigative report was received to violate thege rules of the use of part housing he was transferred handed named superintendent for recent media article raise concerns of Cape Canaveral seashore but they have issued four reports in four years of alleged misconduct. But before it substantiated including the of violation of federal procurement rulesal n conduct of becoming an issued officer and the last week and by the same and you had them against him in lesst than two years. With three other reports of for years to provide up profound example that theyll fail to address the multiple levels. The same superintendent has ben at canaveral since 2010 named as a subject nowommitted report to have committed a reprisal against the whip whistleblower yet we have no indication they have taken disciplinary action the department does not do well to hold accountable those engaged in misconduct we say to or meaningful corrective action. I spent the whole day to avoid some of mcfadyen is viewed there is the real opportunity to address more meaningful. Accountability must begin at the top. Assistant minister jean byrshipo leadership has addressed was it leadership has been expected for those who serve in the gatekeeper role such as Human Resources personnelre a that many feel undue pressure to make this happen report css of rules aree regulations such as that recently detailed in our report for allegations the now former directorsecretary, improperly directed a contract award working with deputy secretary chief of staff we have witnessed an increased effort to be more responsive and decisive regarding employee wrongdoing in rearing courage by this that the Department Level but we would like to see this statement the barrel level with prompt disciplinary action this concludes my to ansa prepared testimony and be happy to answer any questions the committee will have. Recognize myself, director i agree people do make mistakes but i draw a distinction between mistakes and in deception which is a whole other category. June 11, 2015 you wrote a hand written note to the secretary of the department of interior four sentences long barely to paragraphs doti you stand by that . Is there anything wrong about that he and written note . I wrote the note to let her know i had published this book because the first awareness of the book i said in that that there were no ethics issues because i had retreated on mailing time. I asked that Eastern National had requested it of me which they do publish a lot of books for the Natural Park Service and all benefits go to the National Park foundation when i wrote that note i thought i was following the ethics rules with the exception i did not ask permission. Why not . I felt the book and probably would not get published. Si vidicon just decision because you would not get the result the wanted so did they request you write the book or did you request . The facts of the case andll they would respond and let me ask you spirit that the results but it was not true. It was deceptive and intended to make the and if youe appearance to the secretary of the interior there is no ethical problems doing this at the request in the there was true. I think it is incorrect. Why should the secretary trust to . S why should we trust you . The image i have served as a Public Servant 40 years in leadership roles 25 years with an impeccable record of service to the American People. I dont know if i dont take issue it is impeccable if you give a handwritten note to the secretary to deceive her and to keep rates. And i apologize profusely actually what you said when you were confronted t that is that with the director in reality would have different done anything differently. When you were asked about this. Ed would i have done the same thing . Probably knew going into this the resistor to the amount of risk i have never been afraid of risk i got my ass in trouble many, many many times by not necessarily getting permission i have always pushed the envelope. Then you go on from there. And o i apologize directly to the secretary in the National Park service says in the city. Looking at where this happened at touche. It is a small park. How you pronounce his name . Korea three documented cases of Sexual Harassment procurement problems conduct unbecoming three of the four reports and then to have safety abortions but on the one hand to represent the highlights of Sexual Harassment problems for the there is only 50 people you have three documented issues you go to the superintendent had allegations of reprisalttlet you had to go into a settlement with the National Park service. And the person is still on the job . To make his commission has been removed but he is still a federal employee but his responsibilities have beenere sy removed. This is more than just an isolated incident when somebody makes a mistake give us a perspective first on the notes written by the director to the secretarygeneral asked about canaveral. I would say i would say it was not accurate and i agree with your howterization it wass deceptive will assure their question . Gingrich house heavier is the situation at canaveral how often give to the back and re three reports on the same topic. Would help if we didnt ever have to write another for any topics on that part again. Hasnt been resolved . Not to my knowledge. We time is expired. You have identified the evidence of a longterm pattern of a house style worked environment at the canyon referred districting end in addition to issue a report to a few days ago finding a Law Enforcement supervisor at the canaveral seashore has a pattern of Sexual Harassment so do you believe these are isolated incidents or indicative of more invasive problems . I cannot take these two examples and paste the entire park service with the different but it does causese concern there may be a more pervasive problem with two different parts of this type of level. So basically and what you just said it sounds like you have some questions as toto how pervasive it might be . So what do you do to look beyond that . I assume there would be interested in that then the chairman has mentioned various things and i am curious what you do . By publishing our reports we are hoping this is in effect to that i know the park service is making some effort to make a determination of how pervasive. Interesting. As a second set that is coming forward but they range from personnel to changing Field Operations to training and communication and specifically to disciplinary actions onry individuals that were either permitted or omitted activitiesd related to the canyons. We are progressively pursuing that at the canyons. Lets rewind. They tell me that most of them have not been addressed. The chairman has already made it clear that he has some concerns about you being able to tell the truth. I want to remind you you are under oath and would you answer that question again . Yes sir, i have a summary of action in response to the instructor generals report as of may 23, 2016 that 2016 that was prepared by our innerre mountain regional sector. I cannot go into the details of the disciplinary actions in this forum, but i can tell you that they are all underway. We have closed down the river district. All river trips are being done by thirdparty provide, private river rafters. My i want to help you answer my question because im not trying to trip you up. Director how many of these action items have been fully completed as of today . You say they were 22. 18. There are 18. How many director have been completed as of today . And have to count up, can account . Yes, you probably will reach the same number ive reachedn which is seven. There are seven of the 18 that are completed. You just said the majority of them were isnt that what you said . Did miss something . Seven are completed, there are five, six, seven that are actively underway but not finalized. The disciplinary actions take time to pursue but they are actively underway. Do you agree with that . I know you said you dont know everything hes doing, butt based on what he just said, dore you agree with regard to the things that shouldve been done that they should take all of this time. I guess thats what getting at. Because i dont know the detail, sir, i cant comment on that but i do know disciplinary action takes time. Im happy that the financial park service is actually taking disciplinary action and my recollection is that we only have three or four specificwe recommendations so im not completely familiar with the 17 or 18 items that he is talking about. My time has run out, but i want you to tell me what you have done. I think for the benefit of the entire committee, because im going to tell you, im not sure you need to be in this position, but go ahead. So service wise, i think the grand canyon is an indicator as well as Cape Canaveral that we may have a significant problem of Sexual Harassment in the service in certain areas. I want to state up front that the vast majority of employeeses have a series safe Work Environment, however in discussion with the department of Defense Office of Sexual Assault prevention and response we engaged their leadership with our leadership to talk about this for over three hours at our last National Leadership council meeting, and general nichols, who leads that office indicated that if you have this level of privation in one place, its an indicator you may have it in another part. When was that meeting . It was in may. We have launched one team effort in my office specifically to focus on how we are going to address the service wide. The second is one of the generals recommendations was that we do a prevalent survey. That means to look entirely across the system anonymously to allow employees to reportt whete whether or not they have been or are being subjected to Sexual Harassment or hostile Work Environment. Just to quickly follow up on that, the superintendent at canaveral has been there since 2010 it was and was named as ant subject of report in 2012. The report allegations included allegations of reprisal that was found by the mayor and time to be accurate. What i think you are telling him is not a candidate response to this problem. It was not a report that showed up on your desk in the last two weeks. This happened years ago. This is a small group in which you are tolerant mr. Cumming that the majority was dealt with. When it was brought to your attention and there were reprisals for the whistleblowers, you didnt deal with it. You did not deal with it. With one last thing, you just said you had this many in may, but keep in mind Inspector General report goes back to november 16, 2015. Why did it take so long . This was the first meeting of our National Leadership council where we have all the Senior Leaders of the park service to specifically address this. And now recognize the gentleman from tennessee. Thank you mr. Chairman there are very few people for whom i have high respect than i do for Ranking Member coming. He has a very difficult task at times and usually trying to defend administration witnesses but it sends a message to director jarvis and throughout the park service that mr. Cummings did not defend mr. Jarvis today and pointed out different types of problems that have occurred in the park service. I think that is very significant. I spent 22 years, up till about six years ago on the interior committee. I now serve on this committee and another committee, but i heard years ago that there was a 4 billion maintenance back log and then i heard it was 6 billion now it was 9 billion now i have material that says maintenance backlog is 12 billion. I have Great Respect also for people for education and those who get advanced degrees, but id think the park Service Needs to stop hiring so many phds and masters degrees and historians and archivists and environmental activists and start hiring more laborers to chip away at this maintenance backlog if its not being exaggerated. I think we have hit the park service with not nearly enough indians and far too many chiefs. Ive also been disturbed over the years by seeing that almost all or a great many of federal contracts are awarded to companies that hire former highranking federal employeeshr and we see that in the defense department. They hire all the retired admirals and generals and this seems to be throughout the federal government. I was disturbed, for instance, when i read from the staff that the interior Department Office had concerns when the Denver Office in the park serviceve originally attempted to, originally attempted to steer the award of this big contract to a Construction Firm evenir though their price was much higher than other qualified bidders. S. The Denver Service then canceled the solicitation for the decision and later hired the same Construction Company under a new solicitation created by the requirements that only that particular contractor can meet. Director jarvis to have a system in place to question contracts will not awarded, when they are being awarded to the highest bidders and settle lowest bidders . Bi to have a system in place to question contracts that are to prohibit contracts for a harder former employees of the park service . Thank you for that question we congressman, we do have an Audit Program over our Contracting Officers because they could lose their warrant for awarding contracts in some ways as you suggest. We appreciate the audit and investigation by the Inspector General that has revealed this case. This is new to us and is something we will pursueue actively in terms of both discipline and corrective action in terms of ensuring this doesnt happen again. On this contract that youve been asking about, i understand you said it was, the proceeds were to be donated to charity. Can you tell us how much has been donated to charity at this point . I do not know how much has been donated the staff tells a us that none has been donated to charity. The book sales, let me clarify, the book is sold by Eastern National which is a National Park service which has required under its agreement to return to the National Park service 12 17 of its annual profits. That funding, whatever profit they get from the book, that can come back to the park service directly for projects through the system. Any addition for that can go to the National Park foundation, but none of it comes to me. My time is up, let me just mention one thing. I represent half the great smoky National Park. That park is being overrun by m many thousands of feral hogs. I know many people are anti hunting or some in this administration dont like hunting, but we have very Serious Problems that will lead to serious disease problem if many more thousands of these feral hogs are not gotten out of the great smoky mountains. Thank you mr. Chairman. We now recognize the gentleman from pennsylvania for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman. Thank you for holding this hearing. Aring. I have some question for you. Im going to ask you to pullyo that microphone really close too your mouth. Your low talker and we need to hear your. I want to ask you about your offices investigation of the allegation arising from a february 2014 river trip that led to the discipline of twonnon female grand canyon employees. They were accused of inappropriate dancing and the use of a novelty drinking straw. They received 14 day suspensions and their contract for employment with the park service were not renewed after their terms expired. Both of them alleged retaliation , but your investigation continued doubt we found sufficient evidence to prove or disprove retaliation. Did i read that correctly . Yes i believe you read it correctly. Lets go over some of the facts of the report. Is it true that one of the employees that complained about the two women was himself the subject of several prior complaints of Sexual Harassment . Thats correct. Did your investigation find that former grand canyon superintendent had any type of commonly known opinion about that person . I dont know about opinion. I think he had some knowledge. You want to share that with us . He had launched an investigation himself internally about the conduct that was complained about earlier. Sexualharassment type of conduct. That report never seem to make its way to anyone who couldone h actually do something. Your report also notes that the supervisor who conducted the internal investigation admitted that he did not feel responsible for determining whether the complaints against the two women employees were exaggerated or if the allegations against them were in retaliation for their Sexual Harassment claim. He felt it wasnt part of his job and the supervisor did not even interview all of the people who were on that february 14 trip. The supervisors investigation was used as the basis of disciplinary action against the two women. Mr. Kendall your investigation found that several grand canyon employees and managers includin the superintendent agree that the internal investigation of the allegations against the two women employees were insufficient and incomplete. Am i correct in that . I believe thats correct. T. Did you find evidence that men who had been accused ofre Sexual Harassment received less disciplinary actions and that recommended against these two women. I believe we did. Can you say that letter. I believe we did. Its our understanding with this questions of the office of personnel that Term Employees have similar protections under the merit system as fulltime employees. Would it be unreasonable for somebody looking at the fact pattern here involving discipline against these women to conclude that these women did indeed suffer retaliation for their claims of harassment. Our office was unable to conclude that they did but i think we were unable to go either way. All right. Director jarvis i want to invite your attention to this matter. I understand the two women filed eeo complaints against the park service. Are you aware of that . Yes i am aware that they have filed. T ar what is the current status of the complaints that the women filed. Im not aware of those too specific, there were actually seven filings from womenas associated with the grand canyon in this incident. I believe several of them have been settled but im not aware of the details. Service my understanding is the National Park service entered into settlement agreements with both of these women last week. Were you not aware of thatctor director jarvis . No this is being managed out of our Intermountain Regional Office by regional director so im not directly involved. Okay. Miss kendall were you aware of that settlement last week . I am not. While im happy to help. I yield back mr. Chairman. I yield to mr. Coming. Just one question, wouldnt you want to know that . You got a settlement on something as controversial as that. Im just curious, what kind of management is that. T i do want to know. You dont know it today . Dont know the specific. You dont know the settlement i knew the settlement was in negotiation. But you to know the settlement took place. I did not hear that the settlement had been settled. I recognize the gentleman from miss michigan for five minutes. Thank you. Director jarvis, in december of 2011, you issued a memo establishing a ban on plastic Water Bottles in the National Park. Is it true that most if not all of the parks that have implemented the plastic bottled water and still sell other plastic packaged beverages like soda, enhanced water, juice, et cetera. Is that still the case question. Yes sir, they do. Do you feel it is safe and healthy to ban the sale of bottled water . When the public are provided and ample opportunity to get that water from a variety of sources which weve built in as a requirement of the policy, they have to have filling stations throughout the park in order for them to refill reusable bottles. Can you say with absolute certainty that this ban on plastic Water Bottles has reduced garbage to nationalarbai parks. Yes, with certainty. What analysis has been conducted. We conduct data on our solid waste management. I dont have that in front of me but id be glad to get back to you specifically in the reduction of waste. An i would like to see that on reduced waste and reduce disposal costs. Id like to see it on increased recycling implementation. Those are issues i would like to see p because frankly, the question question still remains, we get rid of the water in bottles and the sales of those Water Bottles but we dont get rid of the sale of pop in the same bottle, Energy Drinks and the same bottles, juices in the bottles as well. My concern is that we know that we need water. Ive hiked and enough of the National Parks across this nation to know that that is important, and the fact that the cost of putting in water filling stations leaves me a concern that there are contractualth as issues that we ought to be concerned about as opposed to simply letting the sales take place to people who need the water. And, again, im not certain that the necessary studies have been done to measure the impact other than stopping the sale of water in the state parks for whatever reason that may be. I think there certainly ought to be questions that are raised about that, subsequent to the needs of our visitors as well as con trachsel issues. Let me go to another issue. In the Inspector Generals report they found that yellowstones chief ranger breached the term of agreement with mps by failing to live fulltime as agreed in the contract, fulltime in an apartment on yellowstonesllows ground. Gr why is it important that the chief ranger of Yellowstone Live in the park and not somewhere off the grounds . So in many of our nationals parks we have required occupancy so a portion of our housing were constructed by the government and provided, though the employees pay rent, so there can be Quick Response for emergency situations and the ranger leads that effort at yellowstone. So there is potential of a loss of security and safety to park visitors as well as staff without the head ranger living on site . According to the superintendent, the chief ranger lived in private quarters that still allowed him to have rapid response. It was right on the park boundary. I understand he didnt rent out but he allowed outside visitors to live in that apartment instead of himself. Thats correct. Let me ask, what kind of discipline or reprimanded the ranger receive . He did receive specific discipline. I cant talk about individual discipline in a public forum but i would be glad to come to your office and talk to specifically about it. Ou he was disciplined in this case. Is he still in the same place . He is not. He is a super intendant at devils tower which was a demotion. Thank you, i yield back. Dir. Jarvis, you are not inhibited in your ability to give an answer about specific discipline on a case thats asked in this form form. Youre holding back and noting a providing an answer and theres no encumbrance. T if we ask you a question, we need you to answer it. If you know the answer i need you to answer it. Chairman, i have been told by my solicitors and was asked that specific disciplinary action our privacy act issues. We will follow up for the record with you on that to make sure that you get the answer to that question. I now recognize ms. Kelly of illinois for five minutes. Dir. Jarvis, i want to say thank you for all of your help. I really appreciate it. We talked about 18 action items to grid to. Why has the implementation of some of these been delayed . I dont believe that any ofee these actions have been delayed. In the disciplinary aspect, taking specific disciplinary action on employees is a slow process. There are laws established by the congress that are specific to federal employees, title v, the merit the merit system promotion board, the douglas factors all have to be applied in the disciplinary pieces. Thats why they have not yet been totally executed. They are absolutely in process but they all have to be reviewed and a variety of levels before we can actually take the disciplinary action. All the others, there are no delays in the other actions. What about selfimposed deadlines. Have you met those . I believe we have, yes. Okay. While all these action items are important, some are critical to ensure that the perpetrators of Sexual Harassment are not able to harass anyone else at the National Park. One action item states, the report highlights that the majority of the incidents described by the complainant o include four employees at the river district of the grand canyon. One of those four remains an employee. In light of the report, it is appropriate to take appropriate disciplinary or personal action to remove them from specific Work Environment of the river district. What is the status of the four than individual. The fourth individual is still an employee of the grand canyon but has no involvement whatsoever with the river district operations and is in no position to continue any harassment. He is just being held in a position with his rights as a federal employee and will be subject to discipline. Thats why hes still thereis because you are just following a process . But he has been removed from any role he might play. Besides being removed, has any disciplinary action taken. And you repeat that. I know he was removed but has any disciplinary action been taken yet mark. Not yet we are working on that. Another action item is support, has this item been completed . Yes, the regional director for the intermountain region has taken very specific actions at the park which was essentially elimination of the district. Commercial river rafters are now providing river access for the kind of activities at the rangers were doing before. How will contracting out thet staff is sure this happen again . We are meeting and providing training to those operators who have been providing services on the river. They are all under contract to provide these services and we can hold them accountable through those contract. Ar how can we be insured that the employees that did perpetrate this not be hired again . I can assure you they willss not be hired again. This will be retained as a part of their record. Cial f the disciplinary actions will become part of their official file. Even if they come through the contractors you can ensure that . There has been discussion about that specifically so we are talking specifically to the contractors that they cannot hire these individual. Okay. The Inspector General also founi that the grand canyon engaged in an individual volunteer or previously worked at the park and resigned after being suspended for Sexual Misconduct on a river trip. What are you doing to assure that both men who engage in harassment who have left employment cannot be hired by or volunteer in any National Park . . Again, to float the river requires a permit from the National Park service whether they are volunteers or contractors or other federal agency. I think now that we are very aware of that river trip creating the potential for this kind of harassment, we are actively engaged in training, oversight, communication and post trip evaluations. Folks that are coming off of these trips are interviewed within seven days to determine whether or not there are any issues. Thank you, i yield back. We now recognize the gentleman from florida. Employee thank you, you have 22,000 22000 employees, is that correct. Rr yes or. Im told you have over 400 sites that you manage and trust for the American People. I dont have a National Park in my district. I did have seen augustine. We have to tell the members and mr. Jarvis that we have, at least my experience has been that we have had incredibly dedicated, hardworking individuals with the park indivd service who are inundated and can sometimes do a wonderful job and we appreciate their service and theyre doing it sometimes with limited resources and a great crew of volunteers. We have a list thats a pretty tough indictment of people who abused their responsibility and i think you started to tell some of the problem. Today we have the National Parke service. Weve had epa and irs and secret service. Weve been had gsa and the list goes on and on. We hear the same thing. You just said you have a process that you must go through for the discipline. Its almost impossible to fire a federal employee. I dont know if youd agree with that but its very, very difficult. Yes sir, i would agree with that very much so. I have done it a few times. Its very difficult. I chaired Public Service for almost three years and i found it almost impossible. Thats part of the problem. Civil service is set up as protection against political manipulation or misuse ofes of authority over legitimate working civil servants. Its gone far beyond that in providing cover for people who dont do a good job and it puts barriers in the way. You can go through these cases and state all the compliance you had to do to do Due Diligence required by top of five, by other regulations and others that constrain you from taking immediate action, is that correct . Yes sir, that is correct. Sometimes we cant get Agency Directors to come forward, but you have any suggestions for anything that might speed up or improve the process to get rid of these poor performance employees . Specifically, no, but i would appreciate the willingness of the committee to work with us on some reform in this area. I do think it is a significant problem for us to be able to deal effectively. If we do not follow the rules throughout the process, theres a high likelihood that the individual can be reinstated. Again we hear this. You are not the only agency with these personnel problems. U ms. Kendall, do you see a lack of management or do you see a similar pattern that we described or both with what you have observed in some of these cases . I would say both, sir. I perhaps disagree with you somewhat in the difficulty by which to remove employees. I think the failure comes in the unwillingness to take progressive discipline and document. I like that, progressive discipline. I have a new liberal approach to getting rid of people. I actually gave a certificate in transportation, i called called for the firing of metro incompetent personnel and then the new director came to the second meeting and fired 20 people the day before. I presented them with a certificate of appreciation because i never hear of anyone firing for per performers. He did it. Say its a lack of progressive. Progressive discipline and documentation. Maybe i could do a bill, act for progressive discipline and documentation. You think that could be something we could do to get a better handle on it. I figured something that good managers do do if they have both problem employee. May be an executive order to that effect might help. Thank you, i yield back. I now recognize the gentlewoman from the virgin item islands for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman and good morning everyone. Thank you first director jarvis for the work that the group has been doing. I had a meeting with you regarding recent construction of the underground railroad and for the work that you have toward opening the park to young people see if you can one of the concerns that i have that i think is an underlying issue with the park is not just the misconduct with the employees, but the misconduct from the employees perspective is really related to a disregard, i think for individuals who are not in senior management. Theyre not even necessarily part of the park service themselves. In the Virgin Islands, as you know, park plays an integral role in our community. It takes up large masses of land, particularly on the island of st. John, the entire buck island in the waterways surrounding the island are incorporated by the National Park service. Ti the relationship that we have with park is very, very important. One of the things that i hear continually from my constituents is a pervasive disregard and notable disconnect between the park and its local employees as well as the local government, and in fact the people of the Virgin Island. Ive had some very substantive conversations with the regional director. I cant miss an opportunity with you being here to address this. First of all they receive funding for a source of income for the children in those communities and its an opportunity for young people to learn about the park. O be they can potentially be trained to get excited about careers involved in the National Park. This would create a connection between the park in the local people. This is so important because of the legislation that was created here in congress. One of them main components thah i continually hear from thee constituents is language from the secretary, secretary of the interior is authorized and directed to employ and train residents of the Virgin Island to develop, maintain and administer the Virgin Islands p. National park. Im not sure if youre aware of this language . Are you aware of it . T . Yes but not how its been implemented, but i am aware of it. Reading that particular language, how do you, to the extent feasible, employ individuals and direct them to administer the Virgin Islands National Park of some individuals were not part of the closed National Park system cant apply for employment n within the National Park . W fortunately, congress has given us a couple new hiring authorities, most recently thatu give us a much greater ability. For a long time and has been very difficult for local hires to break in to federal service but recently the office of personnel management, legislation has allowed us that Young People Working as seasonals for the National Park service which is a fairly easy part to get in because we hirept about 8000 seasonals a year, or if you serve in a public land core, you can obtain noncompetitive career status. Thats an interesting point that you raise. The Virgin Islands have used that in the past. In st. Croix its active and engagement but in st. John where its much more intrinsic and involved, theyre not been an active youth conservation corps although they have received the funding for but they have stopped utilizing this for those on the island of st. John. I think its a mistake. I have talking to the regional director about it. Its an issue in san juan, puerto rico, its an issue in the Virgin Islands, its an issue in alaska with native alaskans. Its also an issue in the west in working. Excuse me, i dont care that its a mistake. Ta its a mistake that has hadt haa severe consequences to the people of st. John. You are employing 18 to 20 more students a year but on st. John you have hired no one on the island of st. John for years where this park is very important. That affects the individuals in the individuals on st. Johns has had changes made to the National Park in terms of access without input and notification to people of st. John and the government as well. Is this this a mistake as well and why are the people of the Virgin Islands being left out question. I apologize for you. It is not our intent to disregard in any way shape or form the people of st. John. We think they know the islands better than we do. They know the resources in the history. We need them to be a part of the National Park service. This is something we are addressing aggressively. Just so you are aware, i would like to hold the record open. When i talk about lack of access to public property, since 19891989 with the hurricane hugo, from 1989 individuals living on the island of st. John have not had access to their own private property. That access was landmarked by the National Park. Repeated request by local r legislature and individuals have not allowed them to visit the land that they live on because they have not seen this as a priority to allow them to have public access. Have a great deal of sympathy from me and we have similar issues out west and i think the gentlewoman for her perspective and passion on this. Monument director jarvis my state of arizona is no stranger to National Parks. We are the home of 22 parks including monuments, historical sites, parks and more. As a result of the outside impact, National Parks andnd monuments have seemingly careless nature of the National Park Service Management of the deferred maintenance backlog really troubles me. It is reported that the growing tally of backlog infrastructure needs within the park service such as roads, is it her center and campgrounds need significant maintenance or repair pair and has reached 11. 5 billion. Is that number correct. Yes or that is correct. T. S one of the most significant projects is the arlington Memorial Bridge. St signifi that bridge is in need of a 250 overhaul. We had Park Service Officials who knew how dire it was. They couldnt take their application paperwork on time. That is embarrassing. National park service cant manage what has in its own front yard of washington d. C. Edit expects the people to manage hundreds of acres spread across the further stem far corner of the United States. On top of this the heap of mismanagement to collect and to the problem using the antiquities act. Certain special interest acts have been pushing for them to circumvent congress and move it out of other agreements and into the park services. Their intentions are clear, they want this designation to preven. Mining, hunting and grazing on this land even if it means keeping more acres onto the queue of the park service. Do you think it is wise to add additional acres to the park service that is already burdened when such are currently overseen by other agencies . I think its always grown by active congress an act of the president. I am a fiscal conservative and i do not like taking on new responsibilities to the National Park service that impact our financial house. Let me be specific, is is the Administration Currently working on designating new in arizona . That is a power of the white house. Lets be more specific, have you been approached about the monument by the administration. Not by the ministration, advocates have approached me. Any other areas in arizona . No, not that i remember remember. Let me be more specific, how about western arizona or sedona . No. My Office Currently has requested the department of interior regarding this and the coordination between environmental group. Will that request collaborate information you shared today . I cannot speak for the rest of the department. To okay you and your agency miss funded managing opportunities right in front of you. You cant maintain the them for structuring your backyard. The arlington Memorial Bridge is only 2000 feet long and its falling apart. It should not be handed over millions of more acres via the antiquity act. You may think that the National Park has the capacity control more public land. You said you are conservative in that regard. Going back to the general lady from the Virgin Islands. No sir, we make a request request every year for appropriations to meet our needs. The general lady said the money went to these areas into a the west. Why are they being given to ther proper areas with proper oversight. Im not aware specifically. If were talking about why cc money versus maintenance backlo funding . We have an 11 billion backlog o in maintenance because we only get about half annually what we need to keep up. Adjudi we are putting every dollar we have as a priority into the back log including dire road and bridges but we did not receive Adequate Funding for even one bridge. I think the gentleman. We now recognize the gentlewoman from the District Of Columbia for five minutes. Thank you, i appreciate this hearing. Do i do want to say, especiallyly considering that im a former chair of the equal Opportunity Commission it distresses me to hear that the park service has what appears to be a systemic problem of Sexual Harassment. Ah a call for action of the highest level, not simply to process complaint to make sure they were handled. I hope you will take that. Its interesting that mymy colleague asked about the Arlington National bridge. I was going to ask you about that. How can Congress Really do this . The park service, the bridge, the arlington Memorial Bridge is use to get on the cemetery. Its also the gateway of the south. That bridge alone needs to be repaired. The cost would be 250 million. Everybody in this everybody in this region is trying to get that money. 250 million 50 million yet the park service has appropriated by this congress 268 million for an paved roads and bridges and i have an exhausted the list. Congress itself, you put 260 million for the entire country and then you beat the park service above the head and shoulders for not keeping the Memorial Bridge up. My goodness it takes a lot of nerve the arlington Memorial Bridge is not a case of management, its a a case of no funds to rebuild this. The federal highway ministratio said they are going to close this bridge that leads to the Arlington Cemetery within fivefi years if its not rebuilt. Do you think the last five years, it gives you five years to rebuild the bridge. Youve already shut down some traffic on the bridge. How much longer does this bridge, is it one of the older of the busiest bridges in your inventory . We have a lot of old bridges throughout her inventory. This is the most expensive andhh most complicated and highest use bridge in the National Park system. It is our number one priority. It was our number one priority in the reauthorization of the transportation bill in terms of the request for funds for these types of high Profile Projects that are in serious condition. Of based on federal Highways Administration and engineering assessment which is being done regularly, the bridge is subject to eminent closure in 2021 but we did do some stabilization so it will last. From was a lot of work with the senators from this region. They were able to get an application in. Will that go to the bridge and if not where will the money come from . Thank you, it was the District Of Columbia that cosigned our application that was a requirement and that was really what all of the effort was to get either the commonwealth of virginia or the District Of Columbia. This is a virginia bridge, but go ahead. I will let you debate that at the with the virginia congressman. Senator warren was very helpful. Ultimately we got an application and a schedule for repair. How much funds, the application for the park service, what will that run and will that take care of it and if not where will the rest come from . I do not know how much the federal highways is willing to put up for this bridge. There are various scenarios based on how much they can put up annually. Theres a lot of applications out there for this money, all across the country with a lot of bridges. The infrastructure in our nation has a lot of challenges. Theres a lot of competition but we have a strong commitment from the federal highway commissiongh to work with us to come up with a schedule that will repair the bridge and minimize the impact to traffic. I dont have the hard numbers yet. The latest numbers on the funds, where they will come from and whether there will be in a shortfall. Thank thank you mr. Chairman. We now recognize the gentleman from for five minutes. Thank you. Think its clear that the National Park service certainlyr under the direction and action of its director jarvis is desperately in need of some oversight. Being a we actually had a hearing last month on the subject. I want to thank ms. Kendall for being a part of it. Also for being back here today. Customer you stated you were accountable for the book deal where you wrote it without approval from the Ethics Office and your punishment is monthly ethics training for the remainder of your duration. Is that correct . Yes sir, thats one component. Okay, personally i dont think that goes far enough, but thats not going to be the point of my question. You stated that you have beenth held accountable for the book debacle. But weve also seen in the hearing today other problems throughout the National Park service and in yellowstone and i in the canaveral seashore and the grand canyon river District Section of harassment and other issues. Or the these individuals were allowed to retire or they were transferred. You stated the need for people to be held accountable for their actions. Do you believe these people as have been held accountable for their actions . I believe we are followingfo the regulations and we are t applying for appropriate discipline. If they are eligible to retire e than they can do that. Do you think its appropriate discipline . Yes sir, i do. Okay, ms. Kendall, let me ask you, do you believe its appropriate discipline. Its hard to say whether its appropriate. I thing its more the appearance that i would that i would use as an example, the chief ranger who was then demoted, as i understand it, in terms of grade but took a position of superintendent which by appearances seems to look like it was more promotion than demotion. Yes, people with egregious behavior, Sexual Harassment for example, would you say this is a pattern . I dont have the data to say its a pattern but itsut certainly a concern. When we hear that employees who engage in misconduct or mismanagement or not heldld accountable, that is precisely what we hear when we hear that, it sounds like leadership actually condones misbehavior at the park services. How do you think this affects morale . I think the fact that i am being disciplined sends a message then no one is exempt in this agency. I think that employees are being disciplined. For brit action in accordance with the rules and regulations that govern federal employees are being applied appropriately throughout the system. I would hardly call whats taking place as discipline. Thda ms. Kendall, back to you. In recent cases of misconduct that you have investigated, how many people have been fired . v im not aware of any that have been fired. Okay, so they are retired perhaps but not fired. Perhaps. Per perhaps, but youre not aware of any who have been fired. Director jarvis to find this disturbing . I find that it is the system in which we live. Firing a federal employee. Thats on my question. Is it disturbing that people engage in this kind of behavior, is it disturbing to you that they are not being fired . Their behavior is extraordinarily disturbing to me, but i have federal employee i understand the rules and regulations that applied them and frankly i dont have the power in most cases to fire the employees. Used in still didnt answer the question. Its disturbing to us, the behavior but its also disturbing that theyre noton being fired. Ms. Kendall, are you aware of any employees who were afraid to report misconduct . Im not specifically aware of employees that are afraid of reporting misconduct but i do believe that across the park service and throughout the department there is some fear by employees to report misconduct. why would people be there for fearful of director jarvis . I will close with the. I dont believe its fear, i believe they dont think action will be taken. I think what you are seeing today with these reports, and i appreciate the reports from the office of Inspector General and the actions that were going to take and are taking, we are we are going to see more reporting. Actually i think we will get