Transcripts For CSPAN2 Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20140606

Commitments on Financial Assistance should not be caught up in bureaucratic hurdles here. A timelye to flow in way. As my chairman talks about, the market plan was not only about funding, it was also about active Technical Assistance. When we met with the government there, they welcomed largescale infusion of Human Resources in the country on all the major reform issues. They looked to the United States for expertise. They looked to the Diaspora Community for its expertise. They looked at the europeans, particularly poland, for its expertise. Poland is engage in constitutional reform issues as well. Service reform, after all of these issues, having Technical Assistance on a large scale embedded in ministries, and governments, offices, and civil Civil Society this is all welcome. We believe that International Engagement is critical at this time. Onto anothere topic, and that is russia. I had an executive in my office this morning i will not name the name or the company because i do not think he would like that to occur you have this issue, a major geopolitical issue, the day it has happened since 9 11. Yet the tools that we are willing to use obviously are very different than the tools we used on 9 11. I agree, especially having just come from poland, romania, and majora, this is a geopolitical event. How we respond will reverberate for generations. You mentioned sanctions, and many of us here have push for more robust sanctions. Some people would say, the executive would say that we push on one hand for globalization around the world to try to create democracy because we think that our way of doing theness calls causes world to be a better place. I agree with that. Time, these companies have all become intertwined. They all work through joint ventures. I could not agree more. I would like to see sectoral sanctions. We have crossed the red line and sanctions ought to be in place for what happened in Eastern Ukraine. How do you respond to the folks who come in and have to say do not have an impact on me that way. How do you respond to people who say what you just said . And how do you respond to the president when he talks about we do not want ourselves to be split from europe . We do not want we want to go with them. Is that an appropriate place to be, or should we be more forward than where we are today . In my view, you have to stay in a closely synced with europe. A closein many respects ally with respect to Angela Merkel with respect to the rest of europe and where it is. There has been some success. Do you really see that . I would say compared to her population, she is tougher than most germans. This is what we have to deal with. In terms of economic issues, it is not a question of cutting russia out of the global economy. Aree cannot do that, they not iran, and that is not our argument with them. The problem is they are able to use blackmailing political some of based upon their economic activities, most notably selling gas to europe, and secondarily, the way russian i spent an hour with Vladimir Putin in 2007 where he harped on this theme with a very unpleasant conversation with president bush. They see this as political weapons, so you need to marketfy in the best economy tradition. There are seemingly minor things that are so important. The European Union is looking to take on the monopolistic aspects of the vertically integrated russian gas industry from production to transportation to actual marketing in many countries and to break that up. Those are the kinds of things that will not only send a signal but will eventually rob russia so much strange capability to blackmail an entity, europe, that is made times larger in economy and power in every sense. Now my time is up and hopefully you can response to someone else. I think the biggest fear that i by someone inssed poland last week, and that is that we end up accepting a bigger piece with russia a it peace with russia. We are not willing to use the same tools. So we end up in a situation where they exude extremely bad behavior, we dont do much, and peace up in this bitter where they have this nation that has broken International Norms and laws, reneged on agreements. And we continue to go along in createster peace that instability in Eastern Europe and causes people to question the United States. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Chairman, thank you very much. Let me thank all of our witnesses for their extraordinary work. I want to thank the iri for their participation in monitoring the ukrainian elections. Senator portman and i were there on the ground, had a chance to visit polling stations and had a chance to meet with the leadership of the country. We share your observations, and i thank you very much. Similarmuch have observations. In your overall concern, the International Order of dealing with these types of incursions is very much in jeopardy here, and this goes well beyond the ukraine. Clearly what russia did in crimea, what they are doing in east ukraine, violates International Commitments and agreements, etc. We go through all of them, including osce commitments. It is all being looked at in the china seas. I went from ukraine to vietnam. All i heard in vietnam was their concern about china in the south china seas. When i was in japan, i heard concerns about the east china seas. Order,ot engage a better we will see what happened in ukraine used by major powers elsewhere to solve territorial disagreements. I just want to come on strongly in support of your comments that we need to get nato involved in ukraine because it does involve our natoity of alliance. And we need to have an enforceable code of conduct in the china seas so that we can restore some semblance of withpline in how we deal territorial disputes. I just also want to underscore points that have been made of what we need to do in ukraine. , i agreeoman harman that the protesters in the maidan were much more fundamental than just taking sides on ethnic disputes. They want a country that responds to the needs of their people, and a country free of corruption. That is not going to be easy in ukraine. It will take a longterm commitment to get the country to perform at the level that the protesters expect and will demand. So therefore, first and foremost, is our economic programs to help so that they have a performing economy. I think we all agree on that. The point that was raised about ourging europe, along with policies, that has to be essential. I think president obama deserves great credit for being able to mobilize europe in a more cohesive fashion that we have seen with previous problems in other places in europe. Does require attention to the fundamental economics which deal also with energy, and we very much need to be aggressive in providing shortterm and longterm alternatives to ukraine on their energy issues. It also involves sanctions. There is total agreement here that we need to be tougher on sanctions. And that sanctions work, and that the threat of sanctions work. But the threat only works to a certain degree if you do not deliver. Russias actions and the words that were given before the election indicate it is time for us to move forward with additional sanctions. Iny have to be strategic thought out and in coordination with europe. I want to get to another point that has been talked about, and effect whether we can the balance on the border between ukraine and russia. Pointed out, you congressman harman, the people from russia who want to come into ukraine have no difficulty getting through that border. Nice ifwould be president putin would do something about it. We have to be very firm about that. But resident putin does not do what he says. So i dont want to take his word that he will maintain the border for ukrainians against russia. I think the United States and europe can play a pretty constructive role in strengthening the Border Security issues. The russians may make it difficult for osce to get that type of technical support, but it seems to me that we can find an effective way to help ukraine deal with its own defense of its borders. Get your view as to whether that would be a priority, should be a priority, and whether that can be effectively carried out. Well, you know i agree with you. How to do it does matter. What the process is does matter. It needs to be a ukrainian response. International organizations to help is right. The osce has an interesting position in the country. Osce convene roundtables, three held by a scholar at the wilson center, and those roundtables begin to achieve something that mark green is talking about, which is a conversation in the country to unite all the parts of the country a really good idea, and they will continue. But osce is interesting because it is a Member Organization that includes russia. Followinge in vienna my trip to ukraine and was told that the way the procedures work at osce russia is kind of locked in for a sixmonth it seems to me it would be smart do whatosce mobilized to top you are talking about the mission is in their. Toit is in east ukraine, and mobilize resources after the border. Putin responds to strength. Reasonable controls, full of armed people who may or may not be they are going to need Technical Assistance, more than the International Community is currently providing. Ukraine has a very undercapitalized system. Our strength against russia is our economic strength. That is where we can stop russia more effectively, and are our best weapon. We talk about terrorists attacking us asymmetrically. Everybody here supports sanctions done intelligently and quickly could get a very rapid response. Russia to not trust stop the flow into ukraine. I agree we can do more to assist ukraine in terms of tightening their border. In the short term it will be the gold given the length of the border come and my guess is as long as the russians are determined to get across they will find ways. In the short term, to pressure additional sanctions on russia, we have got to get russia to be part of the solution, not the problem. Oflets remember the history brushfire battles. We also need to help the Ukrainian Government in that part of the country to deliver. We needed to help build capacity, help deliver basic services and really provide the links to the government that those communities are looking for that have been taken apart by the destabilization activities when putin comes in, attempts to sponsor the separatist movements. Success in building governing capacity should be part of the solution. Tois also important i think create that sense of linkage to the National Government and the kinds of successes that reinforce for all those communities why they want to be ukrainian in the first place. Senator, i agree with everybody my colleagues have said, but you have laid out a military problem and it is not a military problem we are ignorant of. We see it in afghanistan where you have an insurgency supported and largely generated from across the border. It is a tricky problem. There are ways to deal with it. First of all, all of the things stated to strengthen the Ukrainian Government am a to strengthen the support of the people, to strengthen the economy, that then leverages into a common insurgencys tragic of stabilization that puts a minimum of force and a maximum henri conciliation and slowly moving in picking the lowhanging fruit as you do in any organized stability operation so that the area controlled by the prorussians does not expand. At the same time you are putting pressure through sanctions, diplomatic activities, to strengthening nato, which is something to do and does not like, watching american Ground Troops on his western borders, to send a signal that it is just going to get worse if you keep this up, and what are you gaining . Deepening ukraine is its sovereignty, its stability, and in the long run youre not going to win this insurgency. And then there can be a time to move this forward. You need the political, economic steps, you need to reach out to the population, but it is also a military activity. Could i comment on what you said regarding the impact of ukraine on other places. Be signing the Association Agreement later this month. It will be Holding Parliamentary Elections in november. And i think we have to have a very watchful on on what is. Appening what will happen following the signing of the Association Agreement in a very small and vulnerable country close by. Thank you, mr. Chairman. You used a business term which i frick. Owhanging my colleagues on republican side realize we try to address it in a strategic process. I would like to quickly growth through Something Like that. Strategic planning process describes reality. You have to bow to reality. Aced on the reality, set goals. I want to lay out my assumptions on reality. First assumption, it makes no sense to russia what putin is doing. Number two, as result, this is all about putins dego. Number three, what gives him power is his oil and gas, the gas station. In his monopoly control over supply which is crazy. In business, customers should be in control, not supplier. Here is another reality. Talk about sanctions, a contrary view. Most of the harm caused to the russian economy occurred before any sanctions were imposed, because the world recognizes what he is doing and makes no economic sense. He has done his own economic harm. Sanctionsy is because are a double edged sword, mutually harmful, i do not believe the west will have the will to affect his catalyst altogether. I do not believe they are going to be imposed. Maybe not a bad thing. I would rather inflict pain on putin, make him pay a price without us having to pay a price. That sets me up with the assumption that is the reality situation. Run that you establish goals. The number one short term goal, obvious, is ukraine must gain control over the east. Anybody disagree with that . Ok. We need to help them, right . So we can talk about sanctions but they will not get imposed, but we can help them secure the east. So we need to do those things. When wewo, we certainly are on the ground heard about the incredible effect of the propaganda coming from russia. We need to counter that aggressively. We can do that, cant we . Shortterme the two goals. Medium term, having what was so hopeful about the protest in maidan, a coming together of the ukrainian people saying they are sick of the corruption. We need to do everything in terms of our actions. We have to tie aid or help to make sure that anticorruption laws are passed. We should do that. That is the medium term because another part of the solution is we have to have a successful government in ukraine. Long term, again, understanding what gives putin power is his oil and gas monopolies. We should be taking actions today to make sure that Vladimir Putin understands his monopoly ,ill not be in place, not two 3, 4 years from now. Here is the assumption, the reality, and you have to hear the goals we can achieve. Where am i wrong . What am i missing . I will start with you, congresswoman harman. I agree, and none of us mentioned russian television, but Madeleine Albright who headed the delegation on which i was a member, speaks russian, and she kept talking about the domination of this message from russian tv into ukraine everywhere she went. Do notot and ukrainians have an effect of counter. I commend you for putting that on the table. It is a very important shortterm goal. We discussed the border. Everybody agrees what needs to be done on the order. Medium term, my understanding is there are now as part of this package of laws that can mentioned, the reanimation package, what has been passed to date, some strong anticorruption law. The problem is it is not enforced. That should be a huge early step of the poroshenko government. On the longterm, absolutely break up the gas monopoly. I am hoping for sectional sanctions. Tom friedman, the writer for the new york times, called it a grand bargain to buy into a package of safe to the limit of energy, safe transportation of energy, and then export of energy, a variety of energy, not russia asto replace the gas station for europe. Another point, senator mark d was going to be here, but i know he has a notion that we should help ukraine become perfect. I think we rehearsed this if you are going to talk renewable energies, that would rank pretty low on the we have to take a look on what is most effective. Markey,ing for senator which i have done for many years, his point is that crane is the least efficient user of energy of any of the countries in that region. Windows are open in the wintertime because it gets so hot. If we could help with efficiency, we could reduce their dependence on russia. There are steps like that we should be taking. I agree with most of your comments. I think there is value in sanctions because do you honestly think they are going to be imposed where we could impose them. It might affect his catalyst at a cost to the west. Because that cost of the west, do you think they can be imposed . Vladimir putin has crossed the line. E has done what we said we have not impose them yet. Thatcan see sanctions would have a serious impact on russia. I cannot tell you politically that i am sure we can bring the europeans to do that. That is a real problem. What is achievable, what is possible. Towe should still be trying push, because otherwise the egregious nature of what has happened, the First Time Since 1945 where a big country has used military force to take territory from a small country in europe. There needs to be some penalty for this. On the gas question, i think we should be doing things, including looking at exporting itrican lng, to begin make more difficult for gas youre now gets about 30 of its gas from russia. Europe only slowly should wean itself away, and we should find ways to encourage that. Jane said about working with ukraine. Ukraine has huge possibilities if they get more efficient use use for gasrgy to production. In five years to seven years, to produce huge oddities of unconventional gas within ukraine. If ukrainians make that happen, they could be in a situation by 2020, they could be importing gas not from russia, but from the west, and be in a position where they would not need gas from russia. That would be an important change in the dynamic, because ukraines biggest economic bane right now is it depends on 6 of its gas from russia. I would like to continue on this line on energy because we have any a number of discussions in this committee, and while there are disagreements on the committee about things like lng exports, there are strong agreements whether it is helping reverse flows of energy that to ukraine from some of its western or northern neighbors, working with ukraine to develop its own energy capacity. Out year he is interested in more exports of Energy Algeria is more interested in exports of energy. I sense of the russian economy is it is a rust belt economy resources, and the toughest thing we could do for whatis to do just exactly senator johnson said, and breakup that monopoly. So we ought to be looking at all those opportunities, even including potential resources like algeria that would like to ship more energy to europe, so it is not just we can do, although we can do a lot, but other partners who would want to help them wean away from the monopoly is critical. I want to ask just about one topic, and that is the polling sk andthe east, donest eastern area, and you talk about that earlier, ambassador green. The polling is pretty strong that huge numbers in the east did not want to be part of russia, do not want to be severed from ukraine. The polling is also strong that they have a great this trust of the government in kiev, and some of that has been because of the Propaganda Campaign from russia, but some of it was because steps like this effort to potentially strip away russian as an official language. The population of this part of ukraine speaks russian. The president needs to address this immediately. You talked about the effort by the president to go to do netsk first. What can the president due to start winning over ukrainians that kiev will not be stiff arming us but will be including us and respecting our traditions, encoding russian language. You hate laid out you have laid out some of it yourself. Some of the symbols are in port and, going to the east, but also Capacity Building so the government is seen as being able to deliver on some of the basic area. And wants in that i also would not separate out what we have been talking about in terms of corruption. One of the reasons why some of the far reach of the country is so angry with kiev is the economy was plundered by the previous president and all rife with corruption, and was about. T maidan there were events that sparked it in terms of backing out of the Movement Towards the eu, but there was also this basic and ger toward a government riddled with corruption, unable to provide basic services. Couple that with linking that part of the country to kiev in terms of a National Dialogue through the media, exchanges that create a Youth Network of reformminded ukrainians. Those may seem like longterm activities. I would argue they are not. I would argue there are immediate steps that need to be taken. I think each one of those steps would send very important signals to that part of the problem in addition to all the other things we have been talking about. Of what members of the committee have been putting forward, my view is all of the above. If we are looking for simple solutions, i am not sure they are there. We need to take a very comprehensive approach that has both the security aspects to it, to the capacity holding, to the basic infrastructure that is necessary for delivering services for creating a sense of purpose and unity and having that dialogue. Let me give you six pieces of what i think a package that could be used. First of all, the government would offer to deescalate its use of force if the armed separatists lay down their weapons. Decentralization, pushing authority out to the regions and at the local level. Elections of governors. The big news about the may 25 collection is it looked at part of that legitimacy over the acting government because you now haves the money who has a strong mandate. We give the parliament also a renewed democratic legitimacy and that would be important. Agreement and poroshenko has talked about this some validation of official status for russian status. Fifth element would be a strong and visible anticorruption campaign. Tens of thousands of people were on the streets come about they were tired of corruption everywhere. I think another part would be his foreignpolicy approach. You have had people, mr. Pershing go, say they do not want to get too close to nato. Six years ago i testified ukraine was ready for a membership action plan, which they were. Nato is just a very controversial topic within ukraine. Fore there will be some way ukraine not to say never, but to say not now in a way that i think would be useful in avoiding what could be otherwise a very controversial topic. How confrontational or provocative is a continued move toward Eu Association in Eastern Ukraine . There has been a political agreement, but economic pacts are supposed to be signed in june. Is that provocative in Eastern Ukraine . It looks provocative, and particularlylly among the younger ukrainians. You should go forward with the association with the European Union. The problem they have is what i believe triggered the russian activity from crimea seizure on to what you see in Eastern Ukraine is that the russians do not want to see ukraine do that Association Agreement because ukraine moving in that direction is irretrievable [indiscernible] wanty have 30 seconds, i to ask one last question. One concern i had early was the ultrance of the nationalist parties. I viewed it as a real positive that they are candidates of the two name parties that got 2. 2 of the road. Am i right to read that as a positive trend . I think is it a positive trend. They got clobbered. I think we have to allow Free Expression in the country. I abhor those views, but if we try to censor and bury those views we are doing egyp for those insty Eastern Ukraine as part of the bigger deal, and i would caution against early elections because there has to be enough political capacity for all of the new voices to be able to run campaigns. We saw that in egypt again, the elections were too early, and it cannot win. I would add one thing. I think the russian actions in crimea have had the unintended opposite effect that a majority of provinces in eastern and southern part of the country. Eagerness much more on the part, and election showed that, for ukrainian unity as a result of his actions. I think it has had a huge impact. I would add on the National Dialogue, which is another to expand and deepen the National Dialogue would be something the president could do as well. Thank you. It is good to see some of you. I have not seen some of you in a while. I apologize for missing the oral testimony. A couple of issues, and i apologize if you have covered them. How do you believe, ms. Harman, the russian and china deal on natural gas affects the ability for us to export lng in an effective way . Is, of the attraction here although it would take a while to get the infrastructure in place for it to make a real difference, price signals would have been sent immediately. To what extent is that nullified i this big russiachina deal . I said earlier i see it as a sign of desperation. Russia was beginning to believe and i still believe it should be a reality that we, the u. S. And europe, are going to cut off their ability to sell gas to europe, so they desperately wanted another market. I do not know what the terms are effective. Many people speculate they are not favorable to russia. Until we know that i am not sure we can fully answer the question. But i think there is an enormous opportunity for the u. S. Energy industry to get its act together to work with the europeans and to find new markets in the medium term, including the export of lng. I understand there are regional price lng. At ric we need to be more strategic and if there are International Opportunities for us to sell energy, not just lng to europe, we should explore those. Thank you. With regard to sanctions, as we mentioned, russia has already tripped some of the measures. They passed the threshold where we said we would move forward with additional sanctions. Europeans are not following. What in your view would it take for the europeans to come on board, mr. Jeffrey . To russian all, over oteri action by conventional Russian Military action by conventional forces would be the red line for the europeans to take steps forward. I do not think putin will do this. He is now using irregular forces rather than his own elite types as he used in crimea. This gets back to senator cardins question, even this sanctions we are seeing, and longterm gas and oil and other Energy Decisions we are discussing here have as you mentioned, senator flake, tremendous future implications money andvement of economic decisions around the integrated world, and it is hurting russia in many ways when we are taking these steps, even if they are not bold or major, not like what we did against iran or we do not use the tools we use after 9 11. We will not going to russia that way. Have very minor steps significant consequences, and the other thing is they are hard for us and particularly for europeans to do. Putin does not think we will do hard things. Every time we do it harder halfway hard thing we are sending a signal to him that who knows what we are going to do tomorrow if he keeps this up, and that is a good thing. When ourador green, delegation was there just before the seizure of crimea, the acting Prime Minister said with regard to the ukrainian with military we have nothing that shoots flies. Develop some of that capacity. What are the political invocations of using military force in the east . Is ites that play, how played, and how will it play in the future in terms of the dynamics with the russian speakers and leanings of some people . What are the military implications of action . First off as we have been talking about throughout this hearing it is essential that the Ukrainian Government show it is able to govern and actually to deliver, and a huge part of governments purpose is to deliver security along its borders. That is terrifically important. What you point to is that the infrastructure, security t. ,rastructure, military, i. Has been weakened, it is weakened, and it is currently no match for russians, whether military, police force, acrosstheboard . One of the things we heard from ukrainians is, look, were worried the russians know exactly what were going to do before we do it because they are the ones that helped set up the i. T. Infrastructure in the first place. What the west can do, the west can help and respond to requests and helped ukrainians build their capacity on all levels to be able to secure the borders, but also deliver the basic services that link those communities in those areas to the central government. Right now with all the propaganda they are getting from thugs, with the armed going back and forth and destabilizing wherever they can and starting problems like tossing in molotov cocktails into polling places, it raises doubts in the minds of the communities along the borders. My view is we need to help them assuage those doubts. A big piece of it is basic Capacity Building, so there is some semblance of governing authority. If i can return to something you said in your remarks, checking is key which i think is key, we think in the west that symbols are only longterm. I could not disagree more. What youre talking about is so important because sending signals, western support, and devotionation to not just ukraine, but to the entire region is essential. Those communities that have historically weaker links to central governments, where they are being bombarded with all isse mixed signals, it important they know that the community of democracies is there and will be there. So i think it sends it is a longterm signal that has an immediate payoff. It is terrifically important strategically. Thank you. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. I appreciate the discussion we are having on what our next path should be on sanctions, having spent the last several months in pretty close consultations with me european allies, color pessimistic that they are ready to take the next step. Merkel can be described as stuck in her current position regarding robust caution on sanctions. Some european nations are not sitting still. They are moving the other way. Senator johnson and i sent a letter to the french today asking them to halt their sale of warships to russians, the type of warships used in the invasion of crimea. I wanted to pin the five of you down on your exact recommendation for us on sanctions, as we have a good conversation about this. Assuming the europeans are not willing to move with us on the next level of sanctions and to use ambassador jeffreys and elegy, a move from kitty sanctions to tiger sanctions, would you recommend that the United States precipitously move forward unilaterally with tions,albased sanc regardless if the europeans are ready to move with us, if you could give us quick answers. It is nice to see all my former colleagues on the committee. I do not think that unilateral sanctions work well. We have seen this movie in iran. I would put maximum pressure on europe and hope that Angela Merkel could be helpful to do this. It is in their interest to do this. It would be cheaper in the long run to do this. But if europe will not go along i would move to larger, individual sanctions because getting at more of these folks does get at the energy section. A lot of them are Major Players inthe energy sectioor russia. A lot of the sanctions imposed to date have had a big fight on russia. I think we need to push and see if we can do sanctions with europe, but if europe will not go along, i would agree more individual sanctions. I would also target families. There are ways to keep people who want to travel from coming here. Sod look at it and much of the International Commerce is denominated in dollars. Maybe look at sanctioning one major russian bank. Could the United States do that, that should have some russianions on the academy, and we would have to calculate what effect that would be against the u. S. Economy. If welateral sanctions, cannot get concerted ones with european, but we have to be careful. They should be designed to persuade, not promote the europeans, because detaining solitary with these solid guarantee solidarity with these guys is very important. Speaking only for myself, i think one of the least reported stores in recent months is what has been happening in moscow, and the fact that putin has taken a number of steps to impose restrictions on his own people and to shut down dialog, which means he obviously fears the effects of sanctions. As you haveis that, heard here, that ratcheting up individual sanctions and family sanctions are important signals, and i think we should constantly be pushing our european allies and remind them of the lines that have already been crossed in an effort to try to get broader sectoral sanctions. I would just make the point and thehink ukrainians seernational community crimea as lost, at least for the short term. I do not think we could afford to see effective occupation twoee de facto operation in inces inive provoin Eastern Ukraine. Whatever can be done to find moscow accountable would be very important. My second question. In much broader question about the future of nato and the future of article five protections. I agree europe will certainly react if there is a movement of troops across the border. And the idea is is that they are protected under the mutual defense covenant in nato. Russia is perfecting a new form of warfare in which they do not march troops across the border, in which they very slowly but methodically contested areas, gain control of areas with tactics like bribery to provocations. This is a longerterm challenge for us. His article five still a sufficient protection for countries along russias order . Border . Yes, it is, as long it is backed with a real hit ability. That is why the u. S. President has put light infantry alon g those borders. I would hope it would be heavier forces reinforced with native. The light green men were facilitated i the presence of 40,000 traditionalist forces along the border that scissors, paper, rock, blocked ukrainians effectiveg more military action. He has got a sophisticated set militaryry and paira steps. A stronger military with u. S. Forces there come as we had in berlin and other places, so we know there may be only a few americans, but there may be more tomorrow. A slightly different version of the question. That say tactics he mused in Eastern Ukraine were used in romania or bulgaria. Lets say russia was actively funding separatist movements within those nations. Does notsion is that trigger article five, but should we be having a discussion about whether that protection is sufficient . I think we should have a discussion about how to meet our nato obligations, article five is central to that. I think the other nato members have to put more into the fight, both in terms of resources and money, and final point on sanctions, which i forgot. A senior russian official recently suggested we yank their visas for russian duma members to go to the south florida. That would really get their attention, and i think that is urope couldhat e go along with, even if south florida and the south of france would lose money. If 150 localns protesters seize a television station in eastern estonia . Discussion have that in advance so nato has an answer ready. If that happens it will not be useful if nato debates whether that is an article five contingency. A good point. Thank you. Thank you for being here, and i would like to pursue that line of questioning and little bit, because it is my understanding that over the next few weeks the nato defense ministers are working to develop a readiness action plan. I wonder if you all could talk a little it about the kinds of things that we ought to be thinking about, not with respect to ukraine, but with respect to some of the other countries in Eastern Europe that are potential targets for this kind of russian activity, and what kind of response we ought to be thinking about from nato. Should we have a more assertive position, rhetorically, or in terms of other symbolic actions that we could be taking now that would help send a very strong signal, both to russia about taking further actions, but also to our allies about our support for them . So i do not know who if you would like to speak to that. 8097, nato haso tried to be nonproductive in terms of its military deployments in countries that joined the 1999 on. There has not been permanent appointments in place deployments in place. The russians have fundamentally changed the rules. Now it is time to consider something the pentagon uses the term persistence toward some kind of a permanent literary presence. I do not think these have to be large units or have significant but that triple arrow worked and kept free for 35 years. It bothers me a bit, and i have truck to talk to my european friends about this, when you look at permanent deployment now in the three Baltic States and poland, you have one American Airborne company, 152 troops in each place. It should not be just american. It would be great if we had four veryries, that would be good in two ways, in terms of sending a signal to moscow that the article five commitment is shared by all nato allies and would send a good signal to capitol hill where at some point you may be asking question why this is just an american burden. I agree, and i wonder if any of you are willing to speculate on why they have been so reluctant to do that. Is it because of the concerns about the relationship with russia and the Trading Opportunities and their dependence on energy, or is there Something Else going on . Agreement, the 1997 and if you look at the language thet, it is clear, conditions, and it said explicitly, under the current and foreseeable conditions, we will not be making large permanent deployments. So it is clear that if the conditions have not changed under what we have seen in last few months, they will never change. About largealking and permanent. We are talking about a few companies, from various countries am falling in what we would call battalion packages, with the other four companies on alert ready to be flown in immediately and falling on their equipment. That could happen very rapidly. I sought in kuwait. That could very rapidly and rate 5000 troops. The berlin brigade was a trip wire, but if you remember those pictures of checkpoint charlie, it was a trip wire with m60 battle tanks. When you have a conventional military capability, you block the ability of putin to intimidate the reaction to the infiltration, the little green men, little seizures of things along the borders, because people can deal with those as Police Problems without having to worry about 10,000 Russian Troops coming across the border. I think that is worth exploring more. I want to change the subject. I am sorry i had another hearing so i was not able to get here to hear your testimony. I wanted to explore the Economic Situation in ukraine, because early in this crisis one of the views that we heard economy if ukrainian does not improve, it creates a situation where the whole country could fall. I wonder if you could economy does not i do who wants to address this, but if you could speak to where we are in terms of economic assistance for ukraine, to what extent do we think that is having an impact there. Is there more we should be and are we seeing the austerity measures that are being called for having a negative effect in a way that is challenging . And then corruption. Are we seeing any potential who wants to address this, but if you couldpositive s corruption in a way that we think will have longterm effects . Said more we have all or less the same thing, but i think i am the only mother and grandmother on this panel. And we need tough love to hear. Everyone cares about ukraines economic future, but ukraine has to care about ukraines economic future. Piece is huge. If resources from the west go into mcmansions for a few accounts, or fat bank wherever, that is unacceptable, and we have already seen that. The poroshenko government which starts saturday has to move out smartly and he says he has to do that. There will be austerity easures ricard for imf measures required for imf loans. When you tell somebody your gas bill will go up by 100 or more, that is hard to hear. This is the time, the third chance for ukraine for this government to say to folks, you have fought and died in maidan, you want a different kind of government, this is what it will take. Afterward you this, the aid will, and we will build a noncorrupt country with a sensible jobs programs and your future will look brighter. Ukraine has an offer in the next two years from the imf and other institutions and 35 25 billion billion. The other bit of good news, my understanding is when the imf team with ukraine in march to talk about the program, a set for the first time in dealing with ukrainians in 20 years from ukraine said heres the problem, here is our to do list. They know technically what they have to do. They understand their ability to access that 25 billion dollars will be tied to implementation of reforms. The big question is can they sustain the support for the austerity measures. Raised the price of heating. A great time, because nobody needs it. In december, when people see is whenlls up 60 , that the government says we have to do this for the next couple of years because this is key. My time is up. Thank you. There has been polling in ukraine for a long time, and we have conducted two polls before the election and of course the polls in election. The hood news is the ukrainian people have eyes open. They understand the path ahead is not going to be an easy one. The polling shows that they are prepared for tough measures and difficult steps. The poll also shows that the leash may be a short one. My own judgment is as long as the government sends clear signals that it is moving to take on corruption there is some hope they will take on these theyvating factors, then have a mandate, then they have the capacity. Ukrainian people are well educated. Ukrainian people know what they are up against. Maidan is very much still front and center to them and close to their hearts, and those who tragically were killed in the madain. There is a sense of euphoria tempered by realism. As long as they take those clear steps the mandate is there. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman, very much. There is an old saying that if you give a person a fish you feed them for a day. You teach them how to fish, you feed them for a lifetime. So that is what we are really talking about here. Leaste is the Second Energy efficient country in the world. Second from the bottom. If it just improved, level,st to polands will put back all the natural gas it inputs. Teach a country to fish. Natural gasuntapped resources. Vast, third in your ear it teach third in europe. Teach a country to fish. That would scare russia. That would petrified russia. I would be the ukrainian people banding to gather themselves and say we must do this. I introduced a bill this morning to deal with this of ukraine, that doubles of funding for the state department and usaid, exportimport bank, development agencies, to deal with this issue, both the Energy Efficiency and Natural Gas Development inside their own country. To leverage programs that are already there, but to bring in our expertise to help them tell us about the timeframe it takes for them to do it. That is without question where we have to be, as a nation. That is our opportunity. And exporting lng from our country . Wet their homes for a day, can do that, but that is not where we should be. I will say parenthetically, for those who are criticizing president obamas plan on monday that epa announced to reduce our Greenhouse Gases and decrying increase of electricity rate, they are the same republicans who are exporting our natural gas to increase our willomestic rates, that it dwarf any increase that comes from the announcement on monday is doing. E epa that is a concern. To this subject, which we should be able to Work Together on in a bipartisan basis, that that is where we should become and that is what we should be leveraging. You are an expert on this, congresswoman. Can you talk about Energy Efficiency, about this whole area, and how dramatically people believe it can make as a difference, given your own experience with your lighting legislation here in america . You really do know this issue cold. Thank you, senator markey. It is interesting to see you at the bottom of the queue of the committee. This is new for me. Humility is a good thing to have. Youre very humble now. I am proud of my humid lity. You mentioned lightbulbs, which were a Bipartisan Initiative and pass on a bipartisan basis, and efficient lightbulbs seems like a little thing. It saves a huge amount of energy. We also did building standards and fuel efficiency and a number of other things. I cannot vote here any more, but i certainly support your initiative to help countries help themselves. It is a point we have made about tough love for ukraine. To take these steps, but we could give them tools to help them take these steps. Others may want to comment, but i think this is a very good angle. I said something about using our asymmetric strength to take the, but we could give them tools to help them against russia. Our asymmetric strength is our economy, some of our good ideas, like these. And the aid we give ukraine could help with these ideas. That would go a lot further than some of the other ideas that are more kinetic. Each one of the issues, on this question of russia. Energy efficiency, natural gas. We have to help them with the reverse flow and other issues. The real issue do you agree this is an area we should really zero in on and that would make a digg or longterm difference than any change in the lng workplace . Energy efficiency in ukraine and helping ukraine produce its natural gas is a big thing. In 2012, the price that household paid for their heating gas was 1 6 the price that ukraine was paying to import that. By raising the prices, theyre going to introduce a huge incentive for all those households to close the windows. Thank you. Ambassador . Absolutely. I would encourage them to get it from other places as well. Even if it does increase prices in the u. S. As well . Congressman . Energyke a position on legislation, but i will say that we believe in a comprehensive approach. Its almost all of the above in terms of building capacity in the ukraine. With regard to technical thertise, however, Ukrainian Government welcomes on energy diversification, a host of all the reform issues they have welcomed Technical Expertise and a major way as they go forward. Yeah. I think that we really do have a huge opportunity here, and the more we learn about this country is the more we see that it can be transformed in the blink of an eye. They could increase their Energy Efficiency by 50 in five years. Bit of to use every leverage that we have in order to help them accomplish our goal. That is what is going to keep gazprom up at night with nightmares. Thats why china looms large. They will see a market shrinking dramatically and their geopolitical leverage as well because that is what it is really all about. When you talk about syria or iraq or libya, unfortunately oil underlies a lot of each of those regions, and here, we really get a chance to do something for them that makes them selfsustaining. My hope is that we can talk about this issue on a bipartisan basis and the committee and get right at the heart of their weakness, get right at the heart of what this whole story is about, which is their necessity today of importing natural gas, but it is something we can really change dramatically and have the ukraine say to russia, we dont need your natural gas any more than we need your soldiers, and that is a statement they should be able to make in the very near future, and we will give them the help they need in order to be successful. Thank you. Newest member of the committee is front and center on Energy Policy and global affairs, and we appreciate his expertise. Wo final questions one, ambassador green, you have talked about this several times in your answers, and i am concerned about i would like to hear some other views as well ukraine, yes, but all of Eastern Europe, and that is the saturation the russians have created with their broadcasting. Nto the region of coarse, it is not openended broadcasting in terms of use. It is very directed by the state. What should we be doing to quickly increase our level of engagement in this region so that in addition to a series ofly created social networking platforms, that there is additional opportunities for multiple . Oices to be heard senator, i would argue that we should boost those programs. Used them into the regions, but we should also look in the social media platforms. There are ways we can help create anchors outside of the region such that it makes it them to be shut down. It is helping to provide the Technical Expertise to foster the development of social media platforms that are indigenous in the region, but also taking steps to help reinforce and protect them from hostile moves such as we saw in Eastern Ukraine. Would say we could also work with the poles and others in Eastern Europe so this is not just something the United States is doing. I think we have a lot of friends in the region in which we can enhance their capacity for and communications in ukraine and also bolster the ukrainian capacity in this regard as well. Just to reinforce the earlier comments about social media, i think there is a huge voice in ukraine that knows how to speak for itself. It just needs resources. One final question, which is think, an important one, but which in the focus of ukraine we have not talked about , and that is the Nuclear Nonproliferation implications of what has happened in the ukraine. Ukraine voluntarily surrendered their Nuclear Weapons that they inherited from the former soviet union in exchange for a commitment by russia as well as the u. K. In u. S. To respect ukraines territorial integrity. Are there implications for global nonproliferation regimes with the loss of crimea and the threat to Eastern Ukraine that a conclusion, that if ukraine had retained these Nuclear Weapons, the loss to crimea would not have happened, and therefore possessions of Nuclear Weapons is the only guarantee of territorial integrity . Concerned that in my travels, i have heard a little bit of that from other countries, and i would like to hear if anybody has any perspectives on it. Chairman, actually, i helped negotiate the 1994 budapest security assurances, which was part of the agreement by which ukraine gave up its Nuclear Weapons, and one of the tragedies of what the russians have done with their assault and annexation of crimea and continued action in Eastern Ukraine, which is violating the commitments they made in that document to respect ukraines territorial integrity, sovereignty, not to use force against ukraine is they have now devalued the idea of security assurances, which could have been a tool in other proliferation cases. It might have been part of the solution on iran and north korea at some point. One of the reasons i think it is incumbent upon the United States and britain, who cosigned the budapest memorandum, one of the reasons we should the supporting ukraine but also penalizing russia is to make clear that there are in fact consequences for violating the sorts of commitments. I agree with steve, but from the standpoint of the middle east where i spent much of my time and effort in the past, what is important is what in the days, weeks, months, years ahead. Punished atction is an ever greater degree of power by the International Community, ascrimea is not acknowledged basically russian, the way we just forgot about south of said he a, and if we can show that there are military actions that first of all will preserve the bulk of ukraine, will make it a vibrant part of the western community in the future, i think , yes, led by say the United States, the west stood up for that aggression, and there is an International Alternative to us developing not just weapons of mass destruction but large armies and little 1914 local coalitions and other things that taken together. E going to undercut this we have a lot of work ahead of us to ensure not just for the sake of ukraine but for the sake of nonproliferation and the overall International Order that , to quote an earlier american this shall not stand. This has been a very insightful panel. We appreciate you sharing your time and expertise and insights. This record will remain open to the close of business on friday, and with the gratitude of the committee, this hearing is adjourned. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] leo shanes congressional report for military times. How does the agreement between Bernie Sanders and john mccain deal with the delays of the Va Health Care sense them . Be there a couple of different aspects to it. The most immediate would be to give veterans who are waiting and have difficulty accessing Va Health Care a card and an option to go to private doctors who take medicare or tricare patience enough to get them out of the va system completely at least until these wait time issues are resolved. Its a 500 million in this bill to hire more doctors and nurses to address that wait time issue. Theres also an accountability aspect. There are a few commissions to look at what the larger problem is and provisions to make it easier for the va secretary to fire administrators who are found falsifying records and covering up problems so all of that together they are hoping will adjust the core problem of veterans not being able to get in to see their doctors. Host the talk between Bernie Sanders and john mccain seemed to have been accelerating in your piece senators announced a deal to address be a problems. What was it that brought the two together and getting it done so quickly . Guest we have seen this issue moving quickly through congress with the recent scandals facing the va so senator sanders has been working on this legislation for as far back as january or february. He had a massive omnibus that failed so a lot of the aspects of this bill are included in there as well. Senator mccain has been all over the va talking about ground zero for the scandals like phoenix and hes been involved. In last week they have seen legislation coming out of the house some accountability Accountability Measures for mayor and a real push from the public to get something done. I think that lit a fire under both sides to come together and reach a compromise which is a bit unusual right now in congress. Host have you heard anything from the vets chair in the house and the sun and more broadly the republicans in the house are they lining up behind the bill . Guest is still early for folks to jump on that there are a lot of provisions they have supported in the past and especially the accountability measure. A slightly different than what the houses already passed through the houses are to pass. The houses looked at a few different versions of this but there has been a real push from outside to get some sort of measure that would let the va secretary fired top executives a little bit easier. Thats where the house will be focused on the problem emanating from this idea that their Senior Executives that just arent good managers and arent overseeing their departments right or are actively gaming numbers to get better bonuses. There is a lot of support for that provision. Well have to see if the provisions and there are some associated with the Sanders Mccain said it would take a special onetime appropriation to pay for this. We will have to see if the house goes along with whatever the price tag is. Host in the houses seemed like a bone of contention with Bernie Sanders in a tweeted about what might be in the deal between senator sanders and mccain saying become ability portion of the senate deal would have dismissed or give va employees one week to appeal three more weeks for final decisions so what brought Ernie Sanders over the in his opposition . Guest it was that provision the idea that there was some sort of an appeal process and i think senator sanders has said all along that he believes corps performing managers should be fired but the way the house bill was written it didnt have any of those protections in there. Senator sanders inserted as you said one week to file an appeal in three weeks to get an answer on an appeal. He feels thats enough of a check and balance to make sure that these arent political firings and there is an something nefarious going on. We will see i know several house members even a few who voted for the house version said they would have preferred a little bit more of a check and there are some sort of appeals process so ive imagine that shouldnt be too controversial in the house. Host also on twitter at leo shane he said center began on the floor to say scented floor today said is it too much reading into the proximity here with the 70th anniversary of dday . Guest this is an issue that has been going on for months down the house and the senate so i dont know. Theres obviously a lot of folks focusing on veterans especially elderly world war ii veterans. It seems like each one of these holidays in each one of these anniversaries is another reminder of a bit of urgency. We heard this amount around memorial day. Not exactly memorial day issue but the sort of topic and reminder of just some of the difficulties facing veterans and the challenges. I think its something that lawmakers have been sensitive to ethical back to their districts and they are hearing a lot of it. Obviously no one wants to be seen as a lawmaker leading veterans down. Host wendys since we will see a boat on the house floor . Guest senator sanders and senator mccain were both optimistic. We could see something as soon as next week. The senate has plenty on its plate already been senator reid has been talking about the Accountability Measures specifically waiting for senator sanders to come up with a package. It wouldnt be out of the realm of possibilities see this move quickly through the senate. Host leo shane the militaries congressional correspondence for military times. Read more at military times. Com. Thank you for joining us. Guest thank you. Mr. President i believe every member of the senate and every american understands the very deep debt of gratitude that we owe to the men and women who have put their lives on the line to defend this country. That should not be a political issue. It should not be a partisan issue. I think all of us have been appalled by what we read about in phoenix and other locations about people manipulating data pretending that veterans were getting care in a timely manner when that was not the case. It is my strong belief that the chairman of the Senate Returns committee that every veteran in this committee is entitled to highquality medical care and that they should get that care in a timely manner. Im going to do everything i can to make that happen. We live as Everybody Knows in a politically divided country and a divided congress. Reaching agreements is not easy and quite frankly does not take place very often here in the senate rate unfortunately for whatever reason without casting blame it just doesnt happen and the American People understand that and are not happy about that. Reaching a compromise among people who look at the world very differently is not easy but in this process senator john mccain of arizona and i have tried our best to come forward with an agreement. Its an agreement which im sure he is not 100 happy about and i can fully assure you im not 100 happy about. I would have written a very different bill and what i want to say now in thanking senator harry reid for his strong support for this process. Chuck schumer patty murray and dick durbin pushing this forward. I hope that we will be back on the floor to continue the effort to deal with the many unmet needs of veterans but right now we have a crisis on our hands and its imperative that we deal with that crisis. To my mind the essence of the crisis is that we have learned that in many parts of this country, not all parts that many parts of this country, veterans cannot get the timely care that they need. They cannot walk into a b. A. And within a reasonablreasonabl e period of time get the treatment that they need. And so this bill today in a significant way begins to address that important issue. Now let me very briefly tell you about how it does that. There are many locations around the country where we need new facilities. We need refurbished facilities. We need expanded facilities. In fact there are 26 locations in 18 states where that is the case. This legislation would allow the construction of 26 medical facility leases and states around the country and i believe that will help us in many parts of the country and providing the quality timely care that our veterans deserve. Mr. President in my view there are areas of the country where we simply do not have the doctors, the nurses and the other staff that we need to provide the care of that our veterans deserve. Many primary care physicians get burned out by working 12 to 14 hours a day. The turnover rate is too high. It is my view that the va by and large and this is good by the views of the veteran community themselves in independent studies that when people get into the va the quality of care is good but i will tell you if you dont have a primary care physicians, the other physicians and nurses that you need to treat veterans they are not going to get the care that they need. This legislation will target 500 million in nonobligated balances for the hiring of new va doctors and nurses. I see that as a significant step forward. Mr. President , one of the great ive think embarrassments or shocks that all of us feel is that within the military we are seeing in recent years horrendous accounts of sexual assault. What this legislation does is say to those women and men who are sexually assaulted in the military that when you get into the va there is going to be quality care for your needs. This legislation also touches on a couple of issues that are not directly related to health care but has overwhelming support in the house and the senate. We have heard from many young veterans who are in colleges as a result of the post9 11 g. I. Bill who right now cant afford to go to college because they are not getting instate tuition. This legislation addresses that issue. I have talked since i know senator mccain has the gold star wives. These are the women who have lost their husbands in combat who i think for and not sensible area are not able to take advantage of the postg. I. Bill. They want to build a go to college and this bill addresses that issue. Theres another provision which would strongly supported by senator mccain and other republican leaders. Senator mccain i am sure will go into it at greater length but essentially what this provision does is says that if you are 40 miles or more further away from a Va Health Care facility or see bach or whatever it maybe you will be a will to go to the doctor of your choice under the strict supervision of the va. What this will do is prevent in some cases in rural areas this is mostly a bill for people in rural areas who now have to travel long distances to get the health care this will make their lives easier. This is a twoyear trial project. Well see how it turns out but that is in the bill as well. The last point that i want to make is i dont think theres any disagreement in the senate and the among the American People that when you have incompetent people in the va or worse dishonest people in the va they should be removed from their jobs immediately and the secretary of the va should have the power to get rid of them. I dont think theres any debate about that. Where there has been some debate in my view is that those employees deserve due process and i say that because i dont want to see a situation where new president comes and and for political reasons fires 400 top executives because they are democrats and republicans or whatever. At own to see a situation where somebody has fired because shes a woman or lack or hispanic or maybe. Thats an underlying motive in that person has no cause of appeal. What we have done is develop an expedited process in terms of dismissal. You will have a week to file an appeal and the appropriate body will have three weeks to rule on your appeal. I think that makes sense. When you think about it does make sense. Madam president there are a few other important provisions. Its import in my view for the nation to take advantage of the expertise that is out there in the private sector. How do we develop Information Technology for people accessing the va . We have a commission that would help us do that and we have another president ial commission that will help us with an ongoing problem in the va. Madam president that is a brief overview of what is in the legislation. As a solve all the problems facing our veterans . Absolutely not. Should we come back and continue to deal with this issue . Absolutely but given the crisis we have right now this is important stuff. I want to thank senator mccain. Senator mccains views on many issues are not my views. If you look at the world differently but that is what democracy is about to sit down and work out the best agreement and i think from day one senator mccain showed a desire to reach a compromise. I hope he feels that i did the same. Mr. President with that i would yield the floor to senators mccain and thank you very much for his efforts. The senator from arizona. Thank you. I would like to say to the senator from vermont that i respect a great deal the work that he has done on this legislation. I respect his commitment and his leadership of the Veterans Affairs committee i respect the fact that Ernie Sanders is known as a fighter and its been a pleasure to do combat with him. [laughter] but i also would like to say that at the end of the day the most strongly held views on different aspects of this issue we were able to come together i believe in a way that will help to relieve this terrible tragedy that seems to have a fallen our nations veterans. It started in phoenix arizona as my colleagues know but it has spread all over the country. It begins with a terrible story of perhaps 40 veterans having literally died for lack of care. I dont need to go through all of the different problems that have surfaced in the ensuing days since i began but there should be no doubt in anyones mind that we should accept the word of the Inspector General who said these are systemic problems. This is in the scheduling problem. These are systemic problems that need to be addressed and you know our hope as we concluded this legislation is that perhaps we could put some of our other differences aside in this body and move forward and address this legislation as quickly as possible and begin to repair the damage because we have for all intensive purposes in some ways betrayed the brave men and women who were willing to go out in sacrifice for the wellbeing and freedom of the rest of us. Again i want to say to senator sanders i appreciate his leadership. I appreciate the fact that we both had to make some very tough compromises but i founded my experience that when tough compromises are made usually thats a sign of bipartisanship and a sign that its a good piece of legislation. I know that isnt the dropper thing to say nowadays in todays political environment but i dont leave if compromises hadnt been made that we would be bringing to the floor of the senate and working with the house with chairman jeff miller over there that we would be doing what we are introducing today. I would also like to say a word about two other individuals and that is senator burr the Ranking Member the Veterans Affairs committee who i admire enormously. He has worked tirelessly on behalf of the veterans. He is the most respected member of our conference and of course our most unique treasure dr. Coburn who had been my nominee to take over the Veterans Administration which almost destroyed along a beautiful friendship. Dr. Coburn is the conscience of our conference. He is the person that we look up to in it hired the most for his integrity, for his honesty and intelligence. I want to thank both senator burr and dr. Coburn for the enormous work. In some ways i am a spokesperson but they really did the great majority of the work. As senator sanders pointed out i would like to cover several aspects of this legislation and try to explain a little bit why some of these provisions are there. A top priority for me for many years has been to give the veteran a choice. We have to give the veteran a choice the same choice for the people who hold their medicare recipients who have tricare. Thats the military Health Care Program where they are outside of 40 miles from the nearest va facilities if there is a wait time which is unacceptable than they should be able to go to their Health Care Provider near their home and not have to get in a van and ride for two or three hours for routine medical care. I also want to emphasize what i hope my colleagues understand that this is no way to comment on the Veterans Administration and i will leave that to others judgments. There are things done in the Veterans Health care system that only the Veterans Health care system can handle. Ptsd, traumatic brain injury, spinal cord injury, prosthesis, war wounds that only the va can do. None of this that we are saying in any way denigrate sword does anything that is some on complementary to the outstanding men and women who work in this system. We are proud of their work. Its the system that needs to be fixed. I dont want anybody whos associated with the Veterans Administration to believe that we are criticizing them. We are talking about a system that must be fixed. Its urgent that it be fixed. Every single day that goes by veterans deprived of his that he or she has earned serving this country and that is why i urge my colleagues if you have amendments and you think you can make this bill better we welcome it created we will be glad to discuss amendments to this legislation. We will be glad if you know how to make it better but in the meantime we have pledged that we are committed to seeing this thing all the way through. I would urge my colleagues to do that. Again i know i speak for senator sanders when i say we have to find a way to make this legislation better come on in. But lets not get hung up on certain other aspects of our differences that have characterized what most people would view as grid locking this body. I urge my colleagues to look at this compromise and it is a compromise and see if you think you can make it better we welcome your input but also we would like to have your commitment to seeing this thing through to the president s desk. I know over on the other side of the capital they are working hard on this issue too. We bring up as i mentioned veterans should have that card and they should be able to go to the facility of his or her choice. Accountability. Senator rubio and others have introduced legislation and senator sanders has made it i think improved on it and this calls for immediate firing if there is evidence of work that is not in keeping with the standards that we expect of our employees and during that period on the appeal that person will not receive a salary. But that person will have due process. Seven days to appeal to the mayor system protection board and 21 days for that merit Systems Protection Board to render a final decision. Yes we should have as many of our colleagues want accountability. That accountability also for due process for someone to at least hear their case to be heard. Expedited Hearing Authority for va doctors and nurses and Additional Authority to hire new providers. There are on obligated funds out there and we are going to use on the gated funds to higher more doctors and nurses where they are needed. I would also point out in some cases doctors and nurses have to work harder where they are. Also they are now pending over the years Administration Requests for 26 major facility leases to be entered into. This has been the president s request. This has been a bipartisan agreement on the need for these facilities and i believe we should proceed with it. I would also point out to my colleagues this legislation has some expenses. Image or expense is to move forward with the construction these Major Medical facilities all over america. In the view of all that is necessary. This improves the access to health care for individuals who are victims of military sexual assault. Sexual assault is probably almost one of the most vexing issues we face in the military today outside of combat. We dont know exact what causes some of this. We do know that many times its because of the lack of discipline. Theres no doubt that this is a problem in the military that needs to be addressed. Otherwise mothers and fathers will be not agreeable. In fact reluctant to have their sons and daughters served in the military unless we address this issue of sexually assaults. There are many efforts going on. In the Defense Authorization bill in the military in many areas where we are working on this issue but i think this provision of the bill will be very helpful in an attempt to address that issue. A commission needs to be appointed on scheduling. We know one of the problems of scheduling and this whole issue of phantom lists and waiting lists. We have got to get to the bottom of it and i think the smartest people in america could help us on that and another commission on capital planning. What are the needs of our veterans . One of the things we do know is we have an aging veteran population from world war ii. Those that are still with us from korea and vietnam. Thats an aging veterans population and requires a different kind of care than those of iraq and afghanistan. To be frank a lot of that is geriatric care. To be frank geriatric care is very expensive but we have got to understand who this population is and what their needs are. Just as we have to understand the iraq and Afghanistan War veterans and what their needs are. Very frankly are planning so far has not been very impressive to me. We need to have, this is a pure senator sanders initiative that va va tuition eligibility bill ford surviving spouses for those who survived in in the line of duty. Instate tuition will be provided for veterans at public colleges and universities. Finally i want to say thank you to senator sanders and i also want to ask my colleagues again this is not a perfect document. We are ready i think to see any changes that we would consider and perhaps germane amendments but i would also hope that we could focus our attention on the bill and the efforts we need to help our veterans as opposed to other issues which seem to be with us on a daily basis. Madam president i yield the floor. Madam president. The senator from vermont. I want to thank senator mccain again and i think that is for marks were right on in terms of describing what is in this legislation and i support his appeal. Book everybody has an issue and every time the bill comes up i have my concerns and i can bring forth amendments and senator mccain has his but what we are appealing to right now is if you have the way to improve this bill for our veterans bring forward that amendment but please do not ring forward extraneous amendments. This focus on the needs of veterans. Lets not make them political footballs and i hope very much we can proceed in that direction. Today the senate will vote on president obamas newest choice to head the department of health and Human Services. In other words the person who will have Impossible Task of trying to make obamacare work. By most accounts Sylvia Burwell is smart and skilled Public Servant but her embrace of obamacare calls for a policy judgment into question when it comes to the task of implementing this illconceived and disastrous loss the president may as well have nominated because as i indicated murders burwell has been asked to do the impossible here. Obamacare has already inflicted tremendous pain on the lives of countless middleclass americans including many thousands in my own state. Its increasing costs for families across the country despite endless promises to the contrary. It is reduce access to doctors and hospitals my constituents relied on despite endless promises to the contrary. And it is cause kentuckians to lose the plans they like and wanted to keep despite endless promises in the contrary. Like a constituent from alaska county. His constituent wrote to tell me as a result of obamacare he lost his insurance and he was floored when i saw the cost of the obamacare through plan to replace it. With a spike in his premium and a 6300 of taxable he wrote to ask me how he or any working man could afford the Affordable Care act. He makes an important point. Nearly every major obamacare promise from several years ago is a row can obamacare promise today. Even more recent promises from the administration cant be relied on it. And generate the secretary certified to congress this would verify that people were actually eligible for obamacare subsidies before they were set out. In recent weeks we learned from media accounts and testimony that many of the systems needed to protect taxpayers against fraudulent payments still have not been built tested or used. Yesterday we learned nearly one in four applications may have been inconsistency that could affect the accuracy of these payments from the american taxpayers. Anyways at taxpayer tax payment raise from tax increases or rated for medicare to make payouts by mistake or through fraud its enough to make your head spin. This is just the kind of thing everyone warned about as washington democrats tried to ram this law through. It will only get worse if we give up now and just accept the giant myth massive mated for Health Health care. The candidate get a web site fixed after spending hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars how can they relate such a huge sector of our economy in any effective way . Token and a Administration Official possibly repair the broken upon the care promises . The question answer is itself. They cant. The nominee before us cant. No one can. The problem is the law itself. Obamacare is what prevents the successful implementation of obamacare. Americans dont want it. They want real health reform, reforms that can lower costs increased choice and help the middle class. In my view this senate shouldnt be focusing on the new captain for the titanic. It should focus on steering away from the iceberg. As hhs secretary the nominee would oversee many important programs aimed at protecting Public Health promoting medical research and providing a safety net for seniors and working families. She would also be the chief operating officer of obamacare implementation. While its doing incredible damage to middleclass amos in our country and her embrace of this disastrous was reason enough to oppose her confirmation. I will be voting against this nominee because i think we need to focus on repealing and replacing this loss not trying to do the impossible by pretending we can make it work. Are there problems with the Affordable Care act . Sure there are. Well Sylvia Burwell promised to fix those . Youll provide great leadership. Our lives intertwine in a strange way. I found out when i first met her. I called Burstyn Ruskin Bowles and president nominated her. She worked in the white house with Erskine Bowles when he was chief of staff to president clinton. I called erskine and i said tell me about sylvia matthies burwell and he said i will tell you about sylvia matthies burwell. I have known people that are as good as working with people as sylvia and getting things done. Ive not known one person that does all of those three things as well as she does. He told me a story rubin was the secretary of treasury. President clinton was meeting with Erskine Bowles bob bergman and the secretary of the treasury and bob rubin had Sylvia Burwell. Erskine recounts a story about the president was grilling rubin on a particular issue and secretary rubin was struggling to respond in appropriate way. Sylvia matthies burwell the assistant rights and note and hands it discreetly. He reengages the president on the issue and the president said that is a brilliant insight. That is a great insight. Erskine bowles not to be deterred said to the president mr. President silvio wrote a note and gave it to him. If i had people as smart as sylvia on my staff i would look smart too. This is a gal that grew up in West Virginia in the coalmining town where i lived when i was four years old. Her husband steven proposed to her at the Bluestone Dam on new river where my grandfather and father used to take me as a little way to fish. She later graduated from Hinton High School Public High School of the coalmining town. Where did she go to school . Shoein to harvard and after that she was a Rhodes Scholar and went to oxford. She came out of went to work for a Great Consulting company. She was doing all kinds of things during the Clinton Administration as deputy omb director. When we actually had for balanced budgets in a row if you will recall. She knows how to manage. She knows how to manage people and Financial Resources and she is terrific and working with people. That is why tom coburn my wing man in terms of leadership on the Senate Committee and Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs came along with Jay Rockefeller to introduce her for her confirmation hearing before the Senate Finance committee to endorse her candidacy. I want to thank dr. Coburn for doing that. You would expect senator rockefeller to be there. He is a huge fan longstanding but tom coburn and i only got to know her for the last year now. We think she has done a terrific job at omb and she will do a terrific job at the department of health and Human Services but i want to say a special thank you to her parents who are still alive and live in West Virginia. The real thank you for raising doubt one but two young women including sylvias younger sister stephanie instilling values and the kind of education that have enabled them both to go on to do extraordinary things with their lives. I wanted to say thank you to steven who propose marriage to then Sylvia Matthews at the Bluestone Dam on the new river all those years ago. I want to thank him for sharing his wife at their country. The start tough and demanding jobs and in some cases thankless jobs. He is willing to take on extra responsibilities as a dad to help raise the children who were under the age of 10. I think matthew was maybe four years old and they know that their mom is changing jobs and they know she still has a job. Its a huge job. Is there work to do . Sure there is. Is there work to do in implementing the Affordable Care act . Sure there is but i will close with this. To my republican friends and i love them all my republican friends moan and groan about the enormous burden the Affordable Care act is putting on the American People. I asked how are you doing and he said compared to what . If things are so bad now with the Affordable Care act lets just say compared to what . Here is where we were three or four years ago. The country of japan spends 8 of their gdp on health care. 8 of Gross Domestic Product on health care. We spent 18 until recently. The Affordable Care act they got that her results. Higher rates of longevity and better results in some respects and we didnt in telecouple of years ago. And in japan they cover everybody. Until this year we had 40 Million People who went to bed at night that did not have health care coverage. I regret anybody who was inconvenienced or disadvantaged at all because the adoption of the Affordable Care act. I really regret all those folks in this country tens of millions of them who didnt have access to health care. I really regret the fact that all those people on medicare never had a second physical. They have got one they would have had a much better life. Millions of Senior Citizens who fell into the doughnut hole and stop taking their medicines and got sick and had to be hospitalized and ended up in nursing homes. I feel badly for them. My dad used to say instead of moaning about your problems, fix them. Fix them. There are plenty of things we can do to make the Affordable Care act better and i know what they are but the idea of saying that we have to go back to where we were thats not a good thing. Thats not a good thing in delaware and i dont think its a good thing in kentucky. He has provided great leadership to make sure the hundreds of thousands of people who need health care habit today who didnt have it before and we want to make sure the opportunity that they realize in that state and those states that dont have the opportunity have no exchange to sign up in the noakes mention of the Medicaid Program my hope is that they will look to kentucky as an example into delaware as the example to see what we can do for our people. Last point. Most of the people who serve here are people of faith. Some are protestants and some are catholics and some are jewish and different religions but most people are people of faith. Most of our scriptures have a couple of things in common. One of the things they have in common is the golden rule. The chaplain gives the opening prayer most of the days we are in session and the golden role is treat people the way we want to be treated and Love Thy Neighbor as we love thyself. Its a quayle of the new testament. I dont dont care if you are practicing catholic jewish muslim hindu buddhist almost all of them have Something Like the golden rule in their scriptures. In the new testament in the book of matthew, matthew 25 there something that we have all heard not Everybody Knows it and cant believe its in the bible but it is. The scripture talks about when i was hungry did you feed my . When i was thirsty did you give me a drink . When i was due to closed me . When i was sick and imprisoned did you come to see my . Matthew 25 doesnt say anything about when i had no health care or when i had to depend on emergency room for health care when i got really sick. And its have to someone else had to pay for an hospital. I was hospitalized for a long while. It doesnt say that in matthew 25. But the intent is the same. Where were you . We were here and we voted to try to do something about it to make sure people did have better access to health care and we can improve on what we have done and we need to do that. We have a moral imperative to our society to look out for them and to help them look out for themselves as well. We also have a fiscal imperative to get our Budget Constraints to me that imperative in a fiscally responsible way. Sylvia Matthew Burwell understands that as well as anybody i know. She is demonstrated that in her leadership at omb. I hope that my colleagues democrat and republican will follow the leadership of senator tom coburn republican from almost oklahoma and a i thank my colleague. I served as a Ranking Member of the Budget Committee and have worked with mrs. Burwell as, just 13 months, i think, she served in the tremendously important position of director of office of management and budget. I do not believe that she is the, has the background, the qualities and experience proven managerial leadership required at that Huge Department of health and Human Services. She has 500 people working in the budget office, and thats an important office. Over 70,000. She once served on a board of a local hospital. She just simply is not the person that we need today to bring order out of a disarray that we have in the Health Care System of this country and the total collapse of integrity and consistency in the implementation of obamacare. And there are a couple of things that i care about, but i really think that its time for this administration to stop moving around insiders, political allies and put some people in