Transcripts For CSPAN2 Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20140322

There are new books out about the history in he would say look at the cost of cotton is a great team 49 until the turn of a greater Economic Freedom of in the 80s. Of course, i speculate that the glove was lost before chide have found itself in a more prosperous direction and. But then the utopia and fantasies. Antidash has gotten beyond that. But with all of that loss had we not been so naive fet mao was the agrarian reformer. As an undergraduate in the 60s we learnt china west it was there culture and anyone who said tidies tidies, buddhism is terrible was a little hysterical. We did not learn about the great famine and the professor described right date about this where tens of millions died analogous to the gulag this was say headed the history and did not get my chair time or attention to. With its parallel to of china and russia. Hoover was so concerned to with the history of the dangers of the historical trends that people bird of the cost as he would have been frustrated to think in to find out from the papers led to of which 40 years before. But we suspect of the league out of sorts. Why could it take so long . The he is trying to be a historian bu the teacher he were getting about the fax so we have a question and what is sure feisty on scholars who might follow . What the message should they use . They could look fresh to the history of free to take a fresh look. Id like to quote certain phrases by british historian that nothing can udc if like a doctorate. I urge young historians for what seems to be the face value in a dig deeply in and did not except to the standard narrative of the conventional wisdom . That is from the communists period with the earth a conventional wisdom the interpretation of those events has been terribly wrong. So i would urge young historians. I would point out that the best kind is to say very factual and very magnanimous he always sees that they do that for work rather than on a divisive to be selfish only interested in his own name beyond the academic accomplishment he knew he was right in sometimes as dr. Nash shows he was. Thank you to the cspan viewers for this time and also dr. Nash. [inaudible conversations] and good afternoon ladies and gentlemen, take you for being here today for the briefing. I have a couple of guests with me today. Susan rice and the National Security adviser that are here to give you a preview of the president s Upcoming Trip and then we will take questions on that trip. Then we will start with an overview of the schedule and ambassador price will provide a systematic overview then we will take questions on those topics areas. Then i will stick around for questions. I will start with the interview with the president over the course of the trip on sunday night in arrived on it a 8 00 in the morning said he will go to the museum where he will meet with the Prime Minister of the netherlands. They will then have the bilateral meeting there as well. Following that the president will go to the soviet side id have a bilateral meetings to initiate the meeting with trade and this is the first since the g20 in september and they could agree to this is obama today. Then the president will go into this session there will be an opening followed by the policy discussion in the afternoon and following the president will attend the g7 meeting at the residence this has been added on as of response to the situation in the you craig the president will consult with the leaders of the g7 out to support the government in the media is part of the isolation of russia for its actions. Paul levine does it g7 meeting the president will see the katy of the netherlands then have a working dinner. On tuesday the 25th the president will participate in the summit we anticipate the opportunity to have some beatings with additional leaders with the interaction said at the conclusion obama will have a joint press conference then following that will have additional meetings with a bilateral treaty from the united arab emirates, one of the key relationships in the gulf to discuss gulf security to support the opposition in syria have the update of the Nuclear Negotiations with iran in and middle east peace negotiations than a very important trilateral beating with the private mr. Of japan this is an Important Message to show the United States is allied with the two most important allies to signal the commitment of the security authorities station when the allies came together we are all much stronger. Then the president will go to brussels and spend the night. On wednesday march 26 he will begin going to one of the most important battlefields of world war i. This is the Centennial Anniversary of world war i had is a critical history in the world hear the president will reach with the cane of belgium and the private mr. So there will be a private meeting then a tour of the battlefield for people of United States and europe as well. Following that the president will attend the United States use of it summit here we have a very broad agenda with the e. U. I am sure the situation of the ukraine will be front and center with the ongoing discussions of a partnership with the iran negotiations with the e. U. Following that seven and working lunch he will have a joint press conference with of peters. After that meeting the president will meet with the secretarygeneral of nato and of course, this is our single most joint Security Alliance frankly is as important as ever given the situation in europe and the ukraine. So not just to discuss that situation but the steps were taking to reinforce the security of our allies with the Vice President s trip and to the Baltic States and poland as well. There will be full discussions of the defense and the preparations. Following the meeting with the secretarygeneral the president will give a speech in brussels the president will have the chance to discuss his vision of European Security obviously the situation will factor heavily into his presentation italy reinforces the United States to remain committed to a Strong Alliance with the integration of europe with the values United States stands for including a probe individual liberty but to make their own decisions to have the integrity respected. Following that speech the president will the bar where he will spend the night on march 27 the president will begin his day with the audience with pope francis he has long looked forward to meeting him he has acquired his leadership as his first year as pope to address issues like income inequality and his leadership so that will be an important time to have personal interaction with the pope to hear about his agenda he has launched in his first year. The president will be to with the secretary of state to discuss what the vatican and is doing. After a visit to the vatican he will meet with napolitano said he had them a good series of discussions with him on the phone to discuss the situation but also broader cooperation. , make that press conference the president will have the opportunity to tour the coliseum in rome and he is looking forward to that opportunity. Then we go to saudi arabia the president will have a bilateral meeting with King Abdullah with another opportunity to invest in our most important relationship in the middle east gulf region with a broad agenda in terms of our ongoing support with the Syrian Opposition with the ongoing peace discussions as well as both the Nuclear Negotiations with iran but the joint concern for destabilizing actions across to the patient then the president will spend the night in saudi arabia and returning to the United States on saturday. Good afternoon. Over the course of this trip to the president will mobilize the International Community and some of the most important partners in the world at a time when we deal with the number of important challenges. If there is a common theme is the fundamental strength id importance of alliances and partnerships. Not that they can be overstated from europe to asia to the middle east it is essential to making progress. To be but the most important Institutional Partners the g7 European Union and nato to have bilateral engagements all traditionally strong allies these take place against the backdrop of the russian intervention of ukraine it is clear for the entire world to say to see it leaves the International Community to support the government of the ukraine and with the imposing cost against ukraine. At the same time we are building a strategic cooperation by moving forward that was of vital engine. In job creation. By strengthening nato as the worlds leading instrument of collective security by advancing efforts to have nuclear arterial so around the globe through the president said pitcher initiative of the security summit. Read while we continue to focus on the rebalance to asia. After tension through to the closest allies the republic of korea and japan with the trilateral meeting to send a powerful message about americas commitment to the security of North East Asia but the president will also meet with the president of china to finance efforts to cooperate where we can on a range of issues from a Climate Change to the korean peninsula. We will begin enforcing our most important relationships in the middle east. On the margins of the Nuclear Security so that the president will have the opportunity to spend time with the crown prince of the uae bin to travel to riyadh for a very important meeting with king of delilah that we are very much looking forward to. Added time to engage in the Nuclear Negotiations with iran working to try to bring tuition to middle peace negotiations and it collective efforts to strengthen the Syrian Opposition. By a investing in the core partnerships to make progress on the agenda. We are investing traditionally with strong and flexible coalition the to these regions that are full small force will the players we should not bear all the burden alone and we dont because that group of alliances i and confident to manage the complex mix of International Issues like the ukraine or ivory and or syria. Also continue in our ability to make progress on key elements like the a share rebalance with us at issue so with that i am happy to take refuge questions a few questions. Is a your gold next week to get the europeans to agree to the same set of sanctions or the unwillingness of the russian economy . And will you lay out clear lines for the steps they would have to take to trigger those . We arent in constant communication as i talk to my counterparts we have been on the phone so coordination already we saw that yesterday when the European Council on the same day we made our announcement came out with a strong decision of its own which included the only Additional Support for the ukraine but the designation of individuals as well as a strong statement of readiness to impose broad economic sanctions in the event the situation escalates. That matches the theory behind the executive order that obama signed yesterday that it gives us the ability as needed to target sectors to be designated within the russian economy should circumstances necessitate. We are quite closely coordinated with our partners said g7 could deepen that coordination even as we have the chance to step up the collective support and consider the optimum disposition Going Forward in light of recent developments. The wall street journal said the white house canceled the planned meetings in saudi arabia because of a rift with the persian gulf leaders. That is not accurate there was never a formal meeting schedule. We had contemplated a few weeks back to begin preliminary consultations but then the situation the members has grown more complex. While we maintain a strong and cooperative relationship with each country we did not think from their point of view the time was up the wall for a collective meeting. With that fundamental reassessment. In the years since the ending of the cold war with the International Community we have made clear our interest was a more fully integrating into europe and the fabric of the international system. That was predicated on the expectation that russia would play by the rules. Economic and security rules and International Bodies and the principles that governed international action. We have seen with the ukraine is a very egregious departure causing the countrys in people in the International Community what does this mean and what are the implications . Use saw a stark example of the u. N. Security council last weekend when the shell was alone. Even without china with there is no legitimacy the world said absolutely they reject they would not accept the annexation it was hidden blatant violation of the territory of the ukraine and will have consequences and it already has been back russia obviously is a big participant do you have an idea who is represented . I know there is some speculation of secretary kerry and is there anything you want to use to talk about isolation and . Nuclear security is where the indicted states has an enduring interest with other important countries where the security of Nuclear Materials remains of a concern. The Nuclear Security summit is an opportunity for countries to come together to levants a very important agenda through this administration National Security policy to make it harder and harder for those who may wish to use Nuclear Materials for terrorist purposes to get their hands on them. There is a series of steps that has led to serious improvement with the security materials around the world. They will cooperate with russia even if we have differences. The foreign minister that represents russia i think that was there plan spinet United States sends the commander in chief civic that is there choice to make it has been for a while. I dont think there is ever the expectation that president putin or president ned did have one dash megabit have would come to this one. Ambassador bryce what do you think Vladimir Putin is up two . Overnight he said they should hold off on countermeasures in response to sanctions is he trying to rewrite the end of the cold war through confrontation with the obama to elevate his status . I will live speculate about president threatens motives. His actions are clear. We have expressed our opposition to his invasion and annexation of korea with crimea and our view is that the situation in should be escalated and resolved through dialogue and diplomacy and we believe that it can be of that is the choice the Russian Federation makes even as we impose cost to signal it could increase to support in the credible efforts. Would the president delivered a message to russian leadership . Secretary hagel has had two important calls with the ukraine minister of defense he encourage them to show restraint. How concerned are you about the ukrainians been pushed into responding to give putin an excuse to take more territory . And also a phone call to the Russian Defense minister that 20,000 troops are on the border. It was explained there is a military training exercise. Do you believe the russians . How do you believe them at this point when they said they had no intention in to take clivia of . I think we are characterizing what the secretary counterpart said to him yesterday i would not describe the value but what secretary hagel has been doing with close consultation with his ukrainian counterpart similarly to what secretary kerry has been doing with the Prime Minister and the foreign minister as the ongoing effort to to show support in partnership to the people of the government with diplomatic support a hint increased economic support and that is the reason for our efforts to work with congress to work quickly to implement the legislation and the Million Dollar Loan Guarantee which is critical to support the ukraine. And is ongoing with russian counterparts. Are you concerned about ukrainian restraint . He said are you concerned the ukrainians will push back to give putin an excuse to do more . Than it this is a fragile situation but we have been an admiring of the posture the ukrainian people have taken to exercise enormous restraint in the face of obvious provocation and have made clear their interest is in the unified democratic future to live in existence with russia and western europe and the United States. The president said that is not necessarily intended to. Of the ukraine has a history to let it be simultaneously working constructively with russia. There are reports today there are more than the 20,000 number gathered along been the segments of the ukrainian border. What have you said to russia at . We have been taking note of developments along the Ukraine Border in the russian border. That was part of the substance of secretary hegels telephone conversation with his counterparts becker things getting worse . It is not clear. The russians have stated they are intending military exercises and the gap between what they have said and done we are watching with skepticism. You said russia has not followed the rules put over the last couple of days . How far is the white house willing to go beyond sanctions when it comes to russia and the isolation and . In the quarter you implying beyond sanctions but the United States has been leading the International Community to the point where we are now there brushup finds itself by the isolated from the exhortation of the International Community from the United Nations Security Council and europe, the United States and other countries coming together outside europe to impose Economic Cost to indicate it will escalate if the situation on the ground escalates. We support the ukraine an inactive and affirmative way to be able to conduct the upcoming election. This section which is coordinated among the entire world is emblematic and increasingly of the isolation russia is facing. With the request for hardware whether the options of the table . The National Security team we have to view of wideranging but it remains on the diplomatic instruments at this point. Our interest is not to see if it escalates or evolves into conflict but a diplomatic resolution tuesday escalation and economic support for the ukraine to the extent to it continues to be necessary with those further cost imposed on russia for its actions. What about economic sanctions . Moving to the next bubble . Level . Thank you. Can you point us to the impact you have seen so far is the next step sanctions for the russian government . What does that mean to have a Global Impact . First of all, these measures have had an initial impact looking at the markets and the currency in the major preteens agencies over the last 24 hours that these steps are consequential. The executive order signed yesterday is a tool that allows even broader action should that determined to be necessary including for the secretary of treasury to impose sanctions in various sectors of the rush said the economy. We have not taken in that decision that is not our profit and one dash preference but if the situation escalates that is a tool at our disposal. What would you say is the primary aim . Is said achievable in do we expect in the cage with syria . Finigan i think the meeting obama plans to have a study rubio will cover a broad range of issues and the strength of our cooperation and counterterrorism a regional issues. This is long stephen king it to both countries and in all opportunity to affirm that to find opportunities to strengthen and deepen. With those Nuclear Negotiations beyond the Nuclear Issue of Security Issues and commitment to our partners in the region i imagine the situation with the middle east Peace Process is the range to mention iran in particular is a topic of the importance what is different so far . Part of our cooperation is excellent and we expect to deep bin if further. Talk about the division is there rubles for the u. S. To bridge the differences during the meetings with saudi arabia . First of all, we have good relationships with each of the countries and be the poorer to maintain those with a pattern of cooperation between the United States as a whole. I dont think mediation is the down i would use the noun i would use that we will hear from our partners from saudi arabia and the uae for all rappers to encourage the continued cooperation with those partners that we think is mutually beneficial. Thank you. Ambassador rising and bin roads i am here to take questions that you may have about 15 more minutes if you need me. The ambassador said the relationship with russia what is the effect of that on the talks with iran . We view it is in russias clear interest that iran not be allowed to pursue possession of a nuclear weapon. Thus far russia has been an important part of the up process and we hope and expect that collaboration and cooperation will continue because of the shared interest of all members that process have a and russia has in particular. Christie. Given everything that the ambassador said about the changing relations with russia, talking in terms of a new cold war, is the president thinking now about talking to the American People on this subject, but in this and some larger context . You read the president begins to them the subject. He noted very clearly that russia has acted in ukraine, specifically primary crimea, violating a sovereign nation tearing up to about territorial integrity, violating the commitments under the United Nations charter and its commitments through agreements with ukraine itself. It also is at odds with what has been a 20 year effort, mostly, not entirely, but mostly in one direction toward integrating russia further into the International Community and International Institutions to my into the fabric of europe, the global economy. So what we have seen obviously represents a serious step away from the integration. It is concerning and problematic. It is not good for europe, the United States, the world, but it is least good for russia and the russian people. We have seen the impact already on the russian economy that ambassador rice noted. Further escalation will result in further isolation and higher costs that russia will incur because of these actions. I dont have a schedule for them next time the president will address this issue, but it is clearly one of concern, one that he has been speaking about regularly for the past several weeks and they expect he will in the future. We pursue this matter with a clear id focus on our National Security interest among our commitments to our allies the than an allout is to File Alliance and our commitment to the ukrainian people and theyre right as a sovereign nation to choose their own future. A quick question about that expression of support for the Ukrainian Government. How much to you feel it underpins the masses of the Loan Guarantee is were stalled . We believe that there is broad support on capitol hill for providing direct assistance to the Ukrainian Government in order to help ukraine get back on its feet economically which in turn will help it move forward especially toward all the elections that should move forward quickly through congress we also believe that part of that commitment to the ukraine in the new Ukrainian Government is the need to ensure that the quota reforms for the imf for past as well. Lawmakers of both parties believe is the president as an aide to maximize your assistance we can provide, the way to do then is to pass legislation that includes these reforms that the and left because that will increase the flexibility and leverage the imf as. The assistance that we envisioned providing and that Congress Supports generally in providing the Loan Guarantee program is a piece of and a complement to the most substantial assistance to the imf can and should provide. A lesser. This survey by the Russian Federation imposed travel restrictions. Some members on the hill to it that lightly. I have two questions. Did the white house read the response by taking it lightly as some of those on the hill did or is the white house concern about the reaction from the Russian Federation signal that this is going to be a pain pawing of sanctions back and forth for some prolonged time . The way we look at it here, alexis, is that it is certainly unfortunate that an action like that would be taken in response to the Firm Commitment the United States is made to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of an independent nation. And to the effort that the United States has participated in and led to provide support to the ukrainian people and the Ukrainian Government and to oppose the a clear violation of the national law that the Russian Military intervention in crimea represents. But we are focused on everything on the back half of the paragraph which is what can we continue to do to support the ukrainian people . What actions can we take as necessary to insure that russia understands that there are serious costs associated with the decisions that the russian is making. We are also focused very much on strengthening already what is the strongest alliance and the world, nato, taking the steps we have taken with increasing our deployments in the baltic nations and poland because of the importance of that alliance and in having the kinds of collaborative consultations with the European Partners a youre going to see the president participate in a persons coming weeks. Has apologized for questioning u. S. Commitment to israel. Trashing john kerry, can you confirm that he did apologize . Is the u. S. Conference or have their received any assurances that minister yahoo will no longer be an obstacle to our efforts . Id obviously speak for him. The was quite clear about our view of his previous comments which are simply inconsistent with the truth when it comes to this country and this administration and secretary carries commitment to israels security. I would point me to the affirmation of that at trimester netanyahu as may when it comes to the singular nature of the specific and concrete commitments to Israel Security that president obama has made and is the ministration has made and would point you to comments of other leading officials in israel to that effect as well. Can you flush out any details about the who, what, where the meetings . I can tell you that the president looks forward to having that meeting in which you will sit down with the number of executives from tech firms to continue his dialogue with them on the issues of privacy, technology, and intelligence following the president s january 17 speech. We will have more information after the meeting if we can provide it. I can tell you that the following ceos are attending. Rita hastings, drew houston, dr. Karp of palin tear, aaron levy of Fox Ameritrade of the will and mark zucker burden of facebook. How did the meeting with the chinese president it set up . Is it about anything special it want to discuss . The east china sea, what exactly . I dont have more on the agenda for that meeting them ben and susan outlined in terms of how it came about we like georgia and opportunities for president obama whenever practicable. As you know, they have met several times now including california. This is an important relationship that includes a panoply of important issues, economics, security, and environmental issues, for example. So the i am sure you can expect a full range of topics to be discussed. The healthcare deadline will be coming up. Just returning from the trip to utah to talk about what kind of preparations a going on while hes away. Obviously. Can you address of the critics have been saying they you have not released numbers on how many people or not were previously uninsured to arnelle being injured as part of the five millionplus that have signed up . Let me on that one in terms of that break down, if it is being calculated that would have to refer you to cms. But i think it is confusing to some viewers out there depending upon the l. A. Pontefract that this system that the Affordable Care act created, the system of private insurance, specifically aimed at the individual market to most americans to get and have felt concerns receive it through their employer. Others, of course, Senior Citizens on medicare and other americans receive health care through medicaid. The private Insurance Market is set up by the Affordable Care act and the state marketplaces. They are aimed at the individual market and in that case that insured within those marketplaces. So i know that the, you know, the sort of criticism is a movable feast. Each straw man in this debate knocked down, there is a new one that is set up. Maybe this is it the result of the fact that in some places somebody in as state is finding out that through the marketplace is the insurance is available, more affordable and Higher Quality than what they have before which is certainly often the case because the standards are higher than i set by the hca. That would be a good thing for the individual whos able to get that insurance and an improvement for them. So we are going to focus instead on making sure that the system is working so that americans can get there options and avail themselves of the insurance plans that they can find on Health Care Website and said further implement the Affordable Care act because millions of americans are demonstrating through the federal estate marketplace is that they want this product and, you know, i am sure that no matter what the number is on april 1st, no matter what the demographic is, no matter what we will still here from the critics. On the march 301st deadline , is there going to be any kind of grace time at all for people average trouble with the website on that last a . That could be a lot of traffic. Actually, the deadline for enrollment, you have heard us make that clear. And, you know, i would refer you to hhs and cms for procedures that, you know, might be in place for dealing with low will probably be an increase in interest toward the end of the enrollment time frame. As you see in all kinds of enrollment and how that volume will be handled. But the march 301st deadline is the deadline. If you sign up on april 1st as was the case for the december deadline, we want to make sure that people who are already in line confess their roman. But for how the process works i would point to what happened in december and have the play out. I would refer you to cms and hhs for have to explain how that works. Again, we want to make sure, as we did in december on that deadline the folks who have begun the process i will to completed. We certainly expect naysayers not withstanding that there will be continued interestrate up to the deadline and will probably increase as we approach the deadline. Yes, sir. [inaudible question] the United States is of deep concern at the turkish government has boxes as access to basic communication tools. We oppose this restriction on turkish people, access to information which undermines their ability to exercise freedom of expression and association and runs contrary to the principles of open government that are critical to democratic governance and the universal rights that the u. S. Stance for around the world. We have conveyed our serious concern to the turkish government. We urge turkish authorities to respect the freedom of the press by permitting the independent and unfettered operation of media of all kinds, and we support the people of turkey in their calls to restore full access to the blocked technologies. Jay, is the white house considering a change in and smart phones, leaving blackberry and going to some other brand . I can tell you, the reports on this are somewhat i dont want to say misleading, but they create the misimpression. The White House Communications agency is part of the department of defense. Veterans like you know. For questions about their devices i would refer you to them. I can tell you that the executive office of the president is not participating in a Pilot Program with regards to handheld electronic devices. John christopher. Can you comment today on a statement from the u. S. Ambassador at the u. S. Is preparing military exercises in poland which will include the polan said republican moderate, slovakia, romania. I would refer you to the state department. Some briefing at the white house about terrorist action regarding the missing plane . This second question is what is the definition . Lara did not submit that question in advance. And the answer i am about to give i am going to make up right here. Watching some. Well, what i would say on this first question is, as you know, the United States is providing assistance to the malaysian government in its investigation and in its search for the missing plane. And we have not here in the United States reached any conclusions about what happened to the plan now where is. We are as part of that investigation that is being led by the malaysian government engages in an effort to try to our look at difference in areas and make decisions about and conclusions about what happened, but we are not there by any means. This is obviously a challenging situation from malaysia and everyone participating in the investigation and the search. On the other 11 mans breaking news is another mans news of the day to my would say. Im not sure that means anything. I know. I have to go in a few minutes. Im not going to way into that debate. [laughter] no, i have a meeting with my boss pretty sen. I will take one more. [inaudible question] could be deployed in the event of evacuation and the crane now that russia has formally annexed crimea. What would constitute an escalation of that moving into the rest of southern ukraine . That was certainly constitute escalation. Would there be escalation do you need without russia moving into the southern ukraine could as economic sanctions be imposed . I think that you could follow the road a long way and try to create specific parameters. What i can tell you is there are a variety of ways that escalation could take place. Recently hope that it does not. The scenario represents an escalation. What if it were to happen. But the fact is it is not our preferred path to have to resort to the imposing the sanctions on sectors of the russian economy that the president described, but we have the authority to do so should russia shoes to the further escalate to, you know, make the situation worse. Instead what we hope is that russia will choose the path of the escalation and the one that recognizes ukraines sovereignty , recognizes that it has an opportunity to engage in a dialogue with the Ukrainian Government about any additional concerns that they have and one that understands from the beginning of the world will not recognize the illegal seizure of territory that was part of an remains part of a sovereign nation. If nothing changes on the ground for a certain time, would that im not going to speculate about that. We obviously, as you will see in the president s trip this coming week have worked very hard with our partners to make it clear to russia that sustained this disposition, continuing this kind of action will result in further isolation and further harm to the russian economy and the russian people. And will erode the authority and prestige that russia could have if it were to choose the abide by the rules of the road that ambassador arrives discussed at the top of the briefing. Thank you very much. [inaudible conversations] here is a look at our primetime schedule saturday night. Cspan2 providing live coverage of the u. S. Senate floor proceedings and keep Public Policy events. Every weekend the book tv now for 15 years the only Television Network devoted to nonfiction books and authors. Cspan2 created by the cabletv industry and funded by your local cable satellite provider. Watches in hd, like us on facebook, follows on twitter. And the Unity Community Health Center is located in washington d. C. Just a few miles from the Capitol Building itself. Vincent kean is the president and ceo of Unity Healthcare. Mr. Keene, what is first of all, what is unity . Good morning, peter. Unity, Community Health center here in washington, Unity Healthcare in washington d. C. Is a network of Community Health centers that provides health care, social services, a whole array of Supportive Services to people who historically denied Access Health care on the mainstream. Basically our commitment is to the underserved, to those who are marginalized, including the medicaid population, including the dagen population, i including those you may just simply not be able to the culturally identify with Mainstream Health care. Unity is a federally qualified Health Center, and it enables people to get health care in their sights, and theyre local communities and also it addresses whether specific needs are. Research about 100,000 patients per year. We have 1,000 employees, and we provide health care to the homeless population, to residents of the gao communities within all words of the city as well as school based Health Centers. So we are a large network, but we are over 1,000 similar type programs in the United States under the Community Health center banner. Mr. Keene, what is the definition, the official definition of a clean the house center . And you spoke of unity being a federally qualified health anter. Federally qualified Health Center. What does that mean . Well, the term federally qualified Health Center comes from the the term comes from legislation. To fully understand you have to 1955 when the concept of a Community Health center was first established. That was established by president johnson in his war on poverty. There were two Health Centers set up an very impoverished neighborhoods. One in mississippi and one in boston. 1000 of them basically have been replicated over the last 50 years. What defines a federally qualified Health Center is several things. One, we must provide hombre heads of health care services, so in other words, it is a whole ability to serve, and ability to serve the whole patient. We must provide services regard as of the ability of the patient to pay. We must be open to all comers. And if you do pay, you pay on a sliding fee scale. And i guess a third and very important parts of what constitutes a federally qualified Health Center is that you must actually have a governing board that is at least 51 of the consumers who use those services. His allows for Community Input it is locally owned, locally governed by the community that we serve. Host mr. Keane, where does your funding come from . Today our finding, and this is true of Community Health centers national wide, we started out in the earlier days receiving federal funds, and we still receive direct grants to provide care to the uninsured, to those who were at a certain level of poverty, but most Health Centers now also use medicaid, they use medicare. A lot of Health Centers actually because of the need to some people will pay based on their ability to pay. In the case of unity, we receive revenues from medicaid. The district has been very generous in medicaid coverage, unlike other states. We sit receive money we receive money from medicaid, it is attached to the individual, we receive money for medicare, we receive money from the satients themselves patient themselves. We also receive grants. In the case of unity, we also receive private money from foundations and individuals. In that sense, we have a very broadbased funding and support system. I would say at this point, with the expansion of medicaid through the Affordable Care act, medicaid is one of the largest sources of our revenue just now. Host does the Community Care center operate like a hospital . Can it be used as a clinic . An an emergency room, a Doctors Office . Guest i would think the latter, peter. It is probably more akin to a Doctors Office where in fact it is not a hospital, and those of us with experience in hospitals, that implies a longterm a longer stay. It is not an emergency room, although Unity Health Care and several health under throughout the United States offer urgent urgent carey offer from the perception of longer hours of service so that people can gain access, but it is not a hospital. It is not a minute clinic. It is akin to a Doctors Office aere you weror i might go for range of services. It is not just a oneonone doctors visit. The patient is the focus of the service, and that patient may caree with their primary provider, which could be a nurse practitioner, a doctor, or a physicians assistant. They also engage with a nurse. They also engage many of them because of the complexity of their illnesses will need what we call Case Management and Care Management, and the focus under the Affordable Care act today is what we call patientcentered medical home where the patients literally is that the center of his and her care. That patient is also educated to take responsibility for their health care. That is more than just a doctors visit. The doctor is critical to that, but he or she has a team that surrounds them in providing that care, which does not it actually starts before the patient comes in, and it continues after the patient leaves the office. There is followup, there might be referrals. And in some cases to doctors, hospitals. It is primary care focus. In other words, preventing illnesses, or venting folks from going into the hospital, but being able to recognize when that we haveh care access to get them in there, peter. Host we will put the numbers on the screen. For the rest of this mornings washington journal, we will be live from Unity Community Health Center in washington, d. C. We will begin by talking to vincent keane, president and ceo, who we are talking to now, and then we will talk to a couple of doctors from the Health Center as well. If you live in the east and central time zones, 202 5853881 for those of you in the mountain and pacific time zones, and medical professionals, particularly if you worked in a Community Health center, we would like to hear from you as well. 202 5853883. You can also send in a tweet as twitterspanwj is our handle. Mr. Keane, how has the Affordable Care act affected unity health Car Community heal . Guest well, the Affordable Care act is one of the most significant events probably in the last 100 years in terms of providing coverage for folks who lack access to health care. For the most part, the aca, the providese care act, opportunity for people who were previously not covered by insurance to get covered. Ways. As in two by the expansion of medicaid and by the exchanges. That helped Health Centers nationwide to serve those who were not previously served. In other words, yes, the answer is the aca has been a very significant has had a very Significant Impact in increasing access to care for those who had liked it. How does that impact Health Centers . It increases your patient load. And also we have to be prepared for that influx of new patients. Committee Health Centers nationwide serve over 20 million people, 22 million people. I the time the Affordable Care act is fully implemented, we serving nationwide up to 35 million people. Here in d. C. , we expect our population to come to our Community Health centers to grow. However, the district, as i have said before, has been very generous in terms of its coverage. As you realize, in many states, they are not covering medicaid, which was the original intention of the Affordable Care act, and that is going to limit some of those who could have coverage if they were open to that, but you will hear later on from one of our physicians thats one of the challenges that Health Centers how are weface is going to have the manpower to take care of that influx of new patients . Dr. Robinson later on well talk about that in terms of some of the creative ways that unity and other Health Centers nationwide are affecting that. So definitely the aca is focusing on the right things. Number one, it is focusing on prevention. Onit makes us focus more prevention, getting people into care earlier, and also if they focus on primary health care to prevent the issues you addressed earlier about admitting people into Emergency Rooms and hospitals. Of course, in addition to that, there is great advantage is in untilof covering kids they are 26 years old on their parents so a lot of opportunities in the affordable will benefit Health Centers, but more port it will benefit the people we serve. Host mr. Keane, any downside for chcs and the Affordable Care act . Guest the potential downsides, again, are probably you know, we have historically relied on federal funds direct from the federal government. Those funds are still necessary, and i think it is greatly important that our congress realizes that even with the Affordable Care act, and it is wonderful, it is still not going to cover all of the expenses associated with running a Health Center, taking care of a population who have chronic rate thanat a greater the general population. As i indicated earlier, peter, a patient comes to our Health Center with chronic illness they need more than a doctor. They often might need language translations. They will often need mentalhealth services. These are services that are not always directly reimbursable, so we are pleading to the congress to recognize the ongoing funding through these trust funds for Health Centers, which was established under the aca, but needs to continue, needs to be refunded so that as well as drawing on the Affordable Care act reimbursement system, that we can always also get federal response to continue to fill the gaps that are there. So i would say it is not a downside, but it is a worry that the federal government continue its direct funding to Community Health centers as the needs expand. Fundingextend that to for teaching Health Centers, where we can teach the workforce of the future, and i would extend that to Something Like the National Health Service Corps, which is a key Workforce Pipeline for young men and women in the country to work in underserved and rural areas, and they get grants from the government to do so. So increase funding, sustained funding as well as all the other advantages of the aca will ensure access for 35 million medically underserved people throughout the country. Can anybodyt keane, go to a Community Health center . To anyone. Re open our primary focus is of course the medically underserved. Those who historically have been cut out of the mainstream system. Those who are perhaps economically disadvantaged, linguistically, other challenges. So our primary focus would be on that level of population, the underserved in whatever category, whether it is financially or not. However, with the Affordable Care act, we are recognizing that there is a new covered population, and that would be the folks above 200 of poverty. I hear them being referred, some of them to the invisibles, invincibles, the young, 26, whatever the invincible age is, i dont know. That is the new population. It is good to get them into care both from a Risk Reduction for the system as well as for improved outcomes because that is a general demographic that young people do not seek health care during that time, yet that is often a time when chronic illnesses, other social issues impact theirreally longterm health. So we are saying yes, we are open to take care of those that historically been part of our mission, however that Mission Starts to creep a little but as we can see people a little but above the poverty line. With medicaid expansion, people are actually going to be flipping back and forth between medicaid and between the insurance exchanges, so at unity and Community Health centers will be there for them regardless of their covered status. Is ourincent keane guest, president and ceo of Unity Health Care. 202 5853880 if you want to preserve a, east and central time zones, 202 5853881 out in the pacific, and medical professionals, we would like to hear from you as well, 202 5853883. David in glen cove, new york, good morning. You are on the washington journal. Caller yes, good morning. I have a couple of questions. I have a feeling what if somebody comes to the Health Center and gets diagnosed with, lets say cancer, and they are told what at that point . Are they told to go seek a hospital . And how to they pay for this . Host if you can hold on for just a minute, mr. Keane, we will get the second question as well. David . We are listening. Go ahead with the second question. Caller the second question is is the Health Center really targeting people below the poverty line . Care, how do they pay for that the Health Center cannot provide and are told well, you have cancer or you have a terminal disease that you have to go to hospital . Host all right, david, i think we got the point. Vincent keane. Guest david, very good question, and is a challenge that many Health Centers it turns on a daytoday basis. The answer to your question, david, will depend a lot of times on the state in which that person resides, but in terms of unity in the Community Health s responsibility obviously is for the whole person and for their longterm continuity of care. So a patient comes in to our Health Center, is diagnosed with cancer, here in d. C. , thankfully, we have a system. Medicaid is generous. We also have a city run program called the alliance. Generally speaking we can get that person into a hospital for diagnosis, procedure, and treatment. I am not saying that is true in every state. Each state, each Health Center has to come up with with the continuity of care land. A lot of times these are based on the generosity of hospitals who are willing to kind of make their resources available, but here in d. C. , if you came in and would becovered, it our responsibility at least to try to connect you to the care. 90 of the time, and i am sure one of my physicians can be more clear on this, 90 of the time that person would be able to be connected to Specialty Care and hospital care. David, that is not true in every state, and i think you said you are from new york will stop in new york, medicaid may be more generous, but i certainly can assure you that it is a challenge. At the same time, a Health Center needs to be connected to other medical institutions to , thatthose relationships actually address serious problem for the help center is not capable of addressing. I hope that answers your question. Host john is calling from houston, texas, a physician. Hi, john. Caller hi. Guest hi, john. Caller hi. I served in the early to mid1980s in a Community Center migrate clinic in south texas on the border. My experience with that it was like we were a fullservice health facility, and basically a onestop fullservice place for and iation, however have not been involved with the Community Health centers in a long time, but i do recall at that time it was up the thatning of my career there were, how shall i say it, local medical political influences, at least in the way we practiced in our community, and i was just wondering if that has changed over the years werese even though we colleagues with our practitioners in the private sector, there was always a little bit of tension about and we always had to kind of be kind of careful issued referrals because we relied on our doctors and the private sector to provide Specialty Services to our patients. I would say the people that needed services that we could not provide, we had a very Strong Social Services Department that were able to individually evaluate each person to see what sorts of services that were available locally or reasonably that would solve whatever problem it was that we were trying to address. Host all right, john, thank you very much. Mr. Keane. Andt thank you, john, thank you for your service in texas. I have a lot of friends in that area, and brownsville and others that have served in a Community Health center, and the National Health Service Corps through which you came is still a critical element of our workforce resource. The answer is exactly as you said, john. BuildHealth Center has to relationships with its local services, other private practitioners, whether it is hospitals, and particularly specialists. You are absolutely right. Sometimes we have to rely very much on generosity. Is there competition . Well, yes. Generally speaking there are not competition for those who are not covered and are uninsured and do not carry a payment mechanism. I would say the answers your question right now, john, is there is more competition today because with the Affordable Care act, all of a sudden, many entities are coming into this market that historically have not played in this before. Historically did not want to see our patients because they do not carry a payment mechanism. So Health Centers are going to experience composition, but i am confident that the quality of care that you get at a Health Center is second to none, and we kind of welcome back competition. Thank you. Lancaster, is in ohio. Jenny, go ahead with your question or comment. Caller my comment is i think it is ridiculous that every time you turn the tv on, you have all these commercials for , and people do not know with those medications are. Only a doctor or pharmacist would know. And the Health Care Gets attacked up skyhigh. Up skyhigh. Ed i think that is what make a lot of the medicine go up in price. Host mr. Keane, as a medical professional, what is your opinion of that . I would probably venture to leave that to one of my other guests. Let me just say, there is no doubt about it. There are many factors that are contributing to rising prices and rising costs in health care delivery. No question about it. Our caller reflects the certainly, youd know, there are people alive today who would not be alive without medication, and sometimes those medications are expensive. Health centers deal with very hard allele patients, so that education plays an Health Centers deal with very chronically ill patients, so medication place an important use. That is where our Care Management comes in. There is real i love about that. The other issue she brings up his medical malpractice coverage. Generally speaking, in some cases, medical malpractice coverage increases the overall large as quite as , iple tend to think, however do think that there has been a tendency in the past to practice expensive medicine, but generally speaking i think our doctors are there to take care of patients. They are committed to that, and yes, you want to be sure that your patients always have right of redress, but i think the two issues she mentioned do have an impact on health costs, medications are important, of course being able also to educate the patient because a lot times a patient may be on multiple medications and is not really know enough about them to address that issue. Host mr. Keane, how many physicians do you have a unity . Are they fulltime . Are they volunteers . Actually, when i say physicians, we include in the physicians all providers, that is psychiatrists, nurse practitioners, medical physician assistants, dentists and podiatrists. We have 180 in our network of serving 100,000 people a year. And these are various levels of discipline. We focus a lot on primary health care, we focus on pediatrics, so we have a very diverse array of physicians and providers. See a very diverse population ranging from babies preterm all the way up to Senior Citizens, so our services are geared toward that, as are most Community Health centers. We have grown significantly in the last several years and taken on Additional Health responsibility, particularly in the jail, that requires us to increase our workforce, which we are always excited, and we invite any young or middleaged or older practitioners who might be out there, wanted to come to d. C. Unity would be a great place to come to. Rich, brodheadsville, pennsylvania, you are on washington journal. Caller since the aca came about, i am now covered under my wifes insurance. She works at a state university. Under the aca, we still have our same doctor, same coverage. We have not lost in the coverage. We get an x or 30 on the paycheck every paycheck, so there is a plus. Thee the other thing other thing im noticing since the aca came about, it looks like a lot of committees, right down the road from me, there is a satellite medical center. That is good, that is providing jobs and helping the economy, but the entire thing of this is, you know, with the whole aca, 69 of people who havent now are satisfied. They are content. Yes, there are problems with it, but how can people be against something that is giving People Health care who never had a before . And the right wing, the republicans want to take what is helping peoples children and cut it and leave those people who do not have insurance before now they dont have any health insurance, and they are back to where we are before. Why would republicans want to do them . I find a heartless, senseless, and downright well, we know why they want to get rid of the aca. You do not have to be a brain surgeon to do that. Your point. K we got did you want to ask another question very quickly . Caller dave medical centers we , if a patient goes in there that is not have insurance, is there funding, is there aca laws that help fund these patients, you know, that he not have insurance . Host we got your point. Thank you, rich. Mr. Keane . Guest thank you, rich. I think your remarks from the aca from somebody who serves previously unserved community, absolutely, everything you say is correct. I am not quite sure, and i think i mentioned one of the callers earlier, there is a competition coming up. Some local pharmacies are setting up many clinics. Some local institutions are setting up more like urgent care centers, where people can get access to the Health Center, to patients who were not previously served. If you are setting up a Community Health center, if you a federallyup qualified Health Center, nothing changes for that person who does not have insurance. The same for primary care based on their ability to pay and that is our mission, that is our charge. That goes back to our founding in 1965. You talk about something that i think is very important. We employ over 1000 people in the district of columbia. That is a significant business initiative. Some of our Health Centers throughout the United States and are economic engines within the community, and that is critical, as well as delivering health care because as we know, unemployment, poverty are contributing factors to poor health outcomes. Host smiley tweets into you, mr. Keane how do you reach the poor, rural people . They have the highest Interest Rate and no health insurance. Thank you. This is the challenge of every Health Center. How do the Community Health centers reach them . Has anommunity Center Outreach program where they have folks, i mean, the best way of reaching folks is by word of mouth, getting the word out. Some Health Centers are very creative about how they use, how they educate and market themselves. Some have established mobile outreach vans to go out into the communities. Some Health Centers actually have home visitation programs where in fact they go out with resources. For instance, here in unity, we would have home visitation programs where those folks who find it difficult to come in. Rural Health Centers have come up with very creative ways. I have not had that experience myself, but mobile outreach, gettingtation transportation is often a barrier to getting people in for health care. These are initiatives that every Health Center takes upon itself to make sure they are serving the population that has been designated to them. Now, i would have to say that part of our mandate really is not to build a Health Center and hope they will come, but rather to actually build a Health Center and actually make sure that the community is being brought into that network of care. Are their strength on how you can spend your federal funds . Guest yes, there is significant oversight responsibilities attached to receiving federal funds. To beare audits i need done on medicaid and medicare annding, and yes, our funds c only be spent directly on primary care is an all of those ancillary services associated with primary care such as social services, dental, all of that. For instance, going back to one talked aboutrs, we we cannot pay for hospitalization for people. We cannot pay for things that as it were happen outside the walls of the clinic. We can set that up, arrange for , developnship agreements between hospitals and ourselves, however, we cannot pay in other words, there are our designated services that are allowable under our grant that we must be responsive to and consistent with. Oversight. Lot of i mean, this is not money that is wasted. This is not taxpayers money. We are very conscious of our responsibly to become good stewards of taxpayers money entrusted to us on behalf of the indigent and those who are underserved. Host john in evansville, arizona, thank you for holding. You were on with vincent keane, president of Unity Health Care Community Health center. Caller my grandson is a resident physician in annapolis, and he serves clinics for the poor. Being that loan is so, he is being helped out on that by the service. He recently said that that was going to be reduced or cap. Capped. Do you know who is responsible or what can be done about this . Thank you. Guest ok, peter, there was part of the question i did not get. The he was talking about education loans that his grandson received for his medical education. And whether or not those are forgiven. Or reduce. Guest yeah, i got that, and actually, that is a very significant concern we have. When i spoke earlier about the federal funding, he may have been served through the long repayment row graham, the National Health Service Corps. It is quite possible that that is reduced, and there is an issue that several of us throughout the United States are coming to try to address this week. There is a National Meeting here in d. C. Where we are trying to cross the fact that another 15 million people, you cannot put them into coverage without providing them access through your doctors, physicians, nurse practitioners, so a significant component of that is loan repayment and scholarship. We just have to really advocate strongly for that not to be capped, not to be reduced. That is a challenge, and i agree ath the caller that it is worry, and it is a worry for those young men and women coming into the medical health system, and teaching that their support may not be there be on the next couple of years, and it a criticals recruitment issue for Health Centers and indeed for the medical system throughout the United States. Host Vice President joe biden will be speaking to the Community Health centers Organization Association today. That will be live on cspan at 10 15 a. M. Eastern time. Kathy in santa fe, new mexico. Caller good morning. I called to see if i can find carehy dental and vision is it better paid for by our older people. We need our teeth to chew to get good nutrition, and we need our vision to read the labels on whatever we are buying. Host thank you, maam. Mr. Keane, are those services that you provide . Guest thank you very much, and i certainly identify with her as i am getting older myself, and with teeth and vision problems. In early speaking, she is correct. Dental and vision are very difficult and expensive to cover under private insurance, however, here is where the Community Health centers come in again. Community Health Centers offer dental and vision services. In addition to that, they often will build like in our case, i can only speak to what unity does. We actually do have ophthalmology, we do have vision screening. It is very cripple for people who are diabetic it is very critical for people who are diabetic. Much of our population is diabetic. So having that Service Available and then having the proper reserve system. Noery health cente. Cause it is an expensive resource, however, it is critical, and we are very aware of that. Dental is similar. Most Health Centers will provide dental services. There is funding to do that, but it is always, we need to embellish that funding, additional funding, and build relationships with dental schools and with other vision entities to ensure that number one, if somebody is diagnosed with even glasses, they can actually get them. If someone is diagnosed with needing dentures that they can get them. So these relationships have to be built because Health Centers can provide the service, but not necessary the ancillary areas. Host mr. Keane, do you need to have an id to go into your Health Clinic . If so, do you have nonenglishspeaking people to help as well . Guest yes. Guest yes. One thing about Community Health centers is that they are very culturally diverse and actually are very aware of the need many of our folks we see this is throughout the United States, here in d. C. , i think it was said yesterday at one of our sites in the northwest section has 100 languages. So we emphasize linguistic and cultural sensitivity to that. So the answer is, yes, most Health Centers look at whats the population other than english that is predominant in our case it would be spanish, and we would have folks and Staff Members who could do to the translation and could communicate with them. The question about an i. D. Is not as such. Generally, though, when somebody comes into the Health Center, theyre enrolled in the Health Center. That becomes their i. D. Do they need a drivers license . They may need some identification if they want to get on public benefits. But in terms of, lets say if were asking the question about, who can be served . The answer is exin Community Health centers, all people can be served regardless of their legal or immigrant status. Host president and ceo of Unity Health Care in washington, dc. Thank you for your time this morning. On the next washington journal, after the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight 370 George Mason University professor Kenneth Button will talk about modernizing aircraft tracking systems. Then the inconstitute for wimps policy rye search president will talk about the report about the wage gap between men and women. And later a look at food prices and the impact of droughts like the one in california. Well be joined by richard volp with the Usda Economic Research service. Washington journal with your calls, tweets and Facebook Comments every morning on cspan. At the end of the day the economy is going to continue to need enormous monetary stimulus, and i think the fed will not be raising rates for quite some time. Im optimistic the u. S. Economy is going to accelerate. One of the core dimensions is the fact that last year the u. S. Economy grew 1. 9 with fiscal drags from higher taxes and Government Spending cuts reducing growth by 1. 3 percentage points. So without that fiscal tightening the u. S. Economy would have been growing over 3 . As you know, cbos do not make policy recommendations and thats very important because policy choices depend not just on the analysis of the consequences of different courses of action but in how one weighs the consequences, what values one applies. Theres nothing special about our values. Its up to our elected leaders, your and my elect leaders, to make the policy judgments. Our job is to help congress understand the consequences of courses of action. This weekend, views on the u. S. Economy with the cbo director anded ands from td bank, the financial times, and mitt m. I. T. Thats saturday morning at 10 00 eastern. And on booktv, live coverage from the virginia festival of the book, first a panel on africanAmerican History, followed by the impact of foreclosures and evictions in the africanamerican community. That starts saturday at noon on cspan 2. And on American History tv, who might have been time time magazs person of the year in 1864 . Historians decide saturday morning at 8 25 eastern. Then at 1 00, join historian to talk about the pick. Live on cspan 3. Up next on booktv, after words with guest host dana priest. Intelligence reporter for the washington post. This week, john rizzo and his book, company man crisis in the cia. The man who represented the cia in the irancontra scandal and participated in approving the rules for waterboarding, presentses an inside look at the agency0s evolution from an notion the shadows to one frequently at the center of political controversy. This program is about an hour. John, good to be here with you. Guest nice to see you again. Very interest book you have written. I want to start in the beginning. Can you just tell me why you decided to join the cia. Guest well, it was 1975. I had been out of law school for three years. I had a good job, a good entry level job in the Treasury Department as a lawyer, actually, in a custom service, part of the treasury at that point. And it was good job, but the i found the atmosphere, the bureaucracy another treasury, stultifying. In retrospect i was young, ambitious, and i was just restless, and about at the same time, the Church Committee hearings were being televised, and as you know these were the first the congressional hearings that exposed cia activities, misadventures, follies, from the 50s and 60s, chaired by Senator Frank Church from idaho. And it was being televised blake on cspan if im not mistaken. I was watching this, and i knew nothing about the cia. Knew no one in the cia in those days the cia had no visibility at all. But it just occurred to me as im watching all these tales of cia adventures, that if cia didnt have lawyers, had no idea whether they did or not, it occurred to me they night need some now. So i applied as a shot in the dark. Host or might need some new ones because of wrongdoing. Guest whenever they found this this pattern repeated throughout my career. Whenever cia would get in a pickle or flap, the cry would go out and cia needs more lawyers. So i was actually i didnt know at the time about i was hired in the first wave of new lawyers. Host so, believe it or not, people still are confused about why the cia is different than any other agency of the u. S. Government. So, just, if you could, summarize why do we need a cia and whose control is the cia under . Guest well, of course, the cia is a secret intelligence organization, been in existence since 1947. Its very presence is shrouded in mystery, and for its first 20, 25 years. So, of course it requires this mystique acquires this mystique over the years, via james bond novels and movies and all that. But it is in essence, it is a unique among federal departments in that, one, it operates almost totally in secret. Two, it is really an instrument of the president , and that is always been the case. The president is always the master. I mention in the book that president s and i served under seven during my time each come to view it as their personal pop stand. They can direct it to do things in secret. They dont have to worry about the normal congressional appropriations process. And its a convenient and aattractive, sometimes overly seductive to all in the Foreign Policy arsenal. So its always been. And i think will continue to be, theres been times over the years after certain scandals that a cry goes out the cia will be abolished. It will never happen because any president , regardless of party, political persuasion, is going to want to have the cia at his disposal. Host it can do things other agencies are not allowed to do overseas. Like it can break the laws of countries overseas in order to do what it needs to do. Guest yeah. Yeah. The cia in cia we cant break u. S. Laws but espionage, spy stuff, when you get right down it to, is violative of international law, and all nations have intelligence services, and were keenly aware of that. So everybody is sort of does it and its implicitly understood. So, yes, cia can do things that normal federal agency couldnt do, to keep things the key thing is to not get caught or screw something up. Host right. I wanted to what i found surprising about your book was your role and how much responsibility you were given and how many times people just really depended on you to do something to make a decision that they couldnt make or didnt want to make, or maybe to go back to the cold war actually and yuri nesenko, and you tell a story about him. If you could put the story in context, and then describe your visit with him and what your mission was. Guest okay. Ill try to run kate this. He was a defector from the soviet union, kgb operator, really, and he defected to the cia station in moscow in early, i believe, february of 1964, which is only, what, four months after the kennedy assassination, three months. And during the cold war, of course, cia detectors from the kgb were considered gold. The cia has a defector program, its a huge, sometimes vexing but a huge, important account. Cia always has them. So here it was this guy literally walked in. He wasnt. Recruited. Guest yeah. And like a lot of defectors he had baggage. He was a heavy drinker. Possibly an embezzler of kgb funds. So he was no saint. But he came and the not only fell into the agencys laps, he allowed as how he only had had access to the kgb file of lee harvey oswald. At the time that was huge. And basically what he said was that the kgb never had any connection with oswald while he was in russia. Host which is not exactly what they were hoping to hear. Guest well, you know. Host hard to prove a negative but hoping to hear there was. Guest yeah. Yeah. This is 1964. Im old but i wasnt i was in high school then so i wasnt on anything direct. I think there was some obviously different schools of thought because some of the cia took him at his words. Others, most notably a legendary cia character names James Angleton who was head of counterintelligence at the time, was convinced that yuri was delve devilish employ by the soviet union, was dispatched to the agency and the u. S. To basically draw attention away from what they convinced was kgb connection. So angletop, who was all powerful at the time, decided, not only that neshenko was to be disbelieved and had to be broken. So he is sent to the states. Basically imprisoned. Secret prison so to speak. Host in the u. S. Guest yes. And for three years, was kept in this small room, endured endless interrogations, deprivations. And while some of his story back story turns out fell apart, he never varied about his claims about oswald. Finally in 1967, after three years of this, cia leadership director, richard helms, decide toed, enough was enough. And basically let neshenko. Let him go to be in the custody of cia to resettle and try to put together a semblance of a normal life. So fast forward from 67 to 1978. Which is where i found him. And id been in the agency less than two years at the time, still trying to figure oust what was going on. And i was dispatched by my bosses to go see nseenko who had an entirely new name, identity, new wife. Defectors shut their countries and i found over the years shed their families in the old country when they come here and get remarried. Defectors and divorces is a whole other story. So i was dispatched so see him in this sleepy little southern town. I say in the book, something out of mayberry, where he had not a huge mansion but a nice bungalow near the water. He liked to fish. And i was sun down sent down there on a fairly mundane mission. He was filing estate papers with the local probate judge and was using his new identity, so a lot of the stuff in the papers was about his biography was false. So i was sent down to quietly go into the judge in chambers and give the judge some sense of who this guy what is and why he couldnt use his true name. So that was it was the kind of job you give a kid area at the cia. They said whatever you do, dont talk to him about his de. Guest those were anymy strucks. The agency was still worried he might sue them or something. So, okay, i got that. So, my ordered were to go fly into this little southern airport, get to my motel on the edge of town, quietly go see the judge and maybe a kurt Courtesy Call with yuri. As soon as i got to the airport, there standing on the tarmac was none other than yuri, who was physically imposing. He had a mug leakern necessary borgnine and this russian drawl, gruff drawl, sounded like the old actor, and he was hulking. Anyway, so he is there, which is a surprise to me, and he is not only there but he says, well, hotel can wait. Youre going to come to my i wish i could do voice immanipulate addition it was more like a command. Youre coming to my house for dinner. So i get in this big buick gaseater car he drives a million miles an hour on the country roads, gets to his house, and no sooner i get there than he breaks out his own homemade vat of vodka. And i proceed to get as drunk as ive ever been before or since. Host i have to read this. You say more than three decades later i can still bring this up in those days enjoyed a vodka martini. But of the third i could feel my i couldnt feel my face. Meanwhile, yuri kept belting them down and started talking even more an natalie, and he then animately, and then he wants to talk about the thing youre not supposed to talk to him about, his detention. Guest right. He starts off on this. So at this point, i violated my orders. This guy met me at the plane, drives me to his house, starts pouring this vodka, and then starts, with no warning, going on about his detention. None of which i was supposed to be doing. But i was trapped and i was getting increasingly inebriated, and not by choice. He kept pouring them and kept belting them so i figure i have to go with it. And it was fascinating, especially given what happened to me 25 years later. He started talking about what it was like to be imprisoned incommune cado, deprivation, and his bottom line was he understood. He said i know that the cia thinks im going sue them or do something. Im not going sue them because i understood we are professionals in the intelligence business. This is what you do to someone like me who comes over. So he said, i am not tell them im not going sue them. I dont have any hard feelings against anybody, including angleton. But his kicker was, you go back and tell them i will never forget what they did. So, that was my yuri story. Host which introduced you to the whole spy world the characters that were so different than the other agencies that you had worked for. Let me ask you about irancontra. That was another incident the scandal that became a scandal in which ollie north was running his own shop, by the help of some cia folks, and exchanging arms from iran guest selling them, actually. Host selling them to the contras in central america, and you had a particularly important role, all of a sudden in the hearings that were taking place on capitol hill in which the legislature was trying to figure out what happened here and how did this happen. Guest yes. This was 1987. So were now ten years ten years since my yuri adventure. So i had acquired some experience in the interim. I was put in charge of dealing with the irancontra committee, which was this huge washington scandal theater, televised hearings, gaveltogavel, and i was the guile the agency had to be sort of the folk cull point with the iran contracommittee to deal with them in terms of documents to provide to them, questions they had, or witnesses from cia they wanted to have testify. So i was the choke point. Basically consumed all of 1987 for me. I was unforgettable. Host at one point, youre sitting in your office, next to the telephone, while the hearing is on, and as members want to ask a question, they need to figure out whether theyre going to divulge by mistake classified information so their aides are running behind the scene, picking up the phone, and calling you. Guest yes. Host right there as its being televised and you had to make very quick decisions. Guest yeah. The title of the chapter was reality tv. That is what it was long before the term entered the lexicon. I decided that rather than be down there behind the scenes at the committee, i could be more productive and more important for me to stay back at cia headquarters and sit in hi office, close the door, and watch the live proceedings as they transpired. And it was at that post i would look at the television this is what happened the hearings went on for 40 days. I could literally look at the television, see a member as about to ask a question, turn to his aide in the back, slip him a piece of paper or something, and the aide would scurry off the screen and i knew what was going to happen in 30 seconds. I would just put my hand on my phone because i knew they aide would call me and say were on live tv mitchell guy wants to talk about this cia activity or he wants to use a real name of this cia officer. Host you lad to classify or delaugh information on the spur of the moment. Guest literally over the phone. And a lot of these questions being asked were not only beyond my expertise but way beyond my pay grade but there was no time to talk to anyone about it. So i was literally on this high wire, and it happened came to happen constantly. Host talk for a minute about the p. R. T. 250. Guest the prt250 sounds exotic. It was a 1987, fairly sophisticated Telephone Communication host secure communication. Guest yeah, between the cia headquarters, and cia stations around the world. Host it would be something we could all understand why you would want to keep it secure and probably secret in order to keep it secure. Guest yeah. It was sortly secret i mean, it wasnt a number of people obviously used it, and so it wasnt fairly well known inside cia but never had been acknowledged as existing outside cia. Not even at the white house. Matter of fact this little tempest because the witness was john poindexter, the National Security advisor for president reagan until irancontra broke, and it was clear he didnt know this machine existed. So, what happened, we had told the commitees about it and given the Committee Transcripts of relevant conversations between William Casey and john boundary poindexter as irancontra was unraveling. Caseys end was being recorded in a phone call, and so during his testimony, poindexter was suddenly confronted by i believe it was arthur lieman, the chief Senate Investigator for the committee. Basically lyman was reading him a transcript, and poindexter was taken aback and he says i have no idea where that comes from. I had no idea i was being recorded, and of course, this set off a tempest at the hearing and in the media at the time. It was thought that womennum casey, had a reputation of being devious, had somehow maybe constructioned this nixonan tape system that no one knew about. So, it was huge. Oo and you were being asked to say, to tell the staffer if it was okay that the member could continue. Guest yeah. Host asking questions, and this is what you write, because i think this boils down a lot of things you were asked to do at the time. You said holding the phone i would just take a breath, close my eyes and make the judgment call. Heads i would agree to the disclosure of some sensitive secret. Tails and i risked having the agency accused of obstructing a congressional investigation and the publics right to know. For the first anytime my career i was alone on a high wire without a net. Guest right. Host seems to be a pattern. Guest yeah. That was the flap was i mentioned in the book, the to me that is one i was tempting fate. Long story short, the committee, committee staff, lieman, implored me to declassify so they could publicly explain that, no, this is what the system was for. The committee was fine with it. They didnt host and the public republic did not fall apart. Guest ed did not. I said, go ahead. And reality tv, three minutes later, lyman reading a text he had just run by me for approval on television. It was late in the afternoon. Ill never forget it, and the days hearings ended shortly thereafter and i get a phone call to see the cia director, who at the time was bob gates. He was acting director. And so im trudging down the hall from my office thinking, this is it. This system had been in place host career over. Guest i told the world about it. And gates was asking some other question that had nothing to do with this. And so sort of off handedly he said, anything happen at the hearings today . And i hesitated and said as quietly as possible, nothing much except i declassified the prt250 system, and he shrugged. So, dodged the bullet there. That sort of secrecy and what happens when things are revealed, is a theme that ive heard you talk about before. In your book you say one thing you learned is secrets dont stay secret very long. And so i guess out of the good segway into talking about 9 11 and things that happened after 9 11 that were all supposed to be secret and some of them im sure still are but a whole bunch of them are not. And so i wanted to talk to you about 9 11 and if you could tell me briefly, you were in the building, couldnt get airplane dnr away from the building. A crowd of people trying to flee. So you started thinking like a lawyer. What are we going to need after that . And you took your legal pad and started writing what . Guest yeah. This was literally the morning of 9 11, probably an hour or two after the certainly right after the pentagon had been hit, after the world towers were hit. And as you say i was they had the buildingwide evacuation. Cia headquarters and langley is huge parking lots, people are streaming out, some walking, some running, and i looked out my window on the seventh floor, with a view of the sky, by the way, and i thought, cant get out of here. Im stuck. So i figured the hell with it. I just closed my door and started to try to think, basically let my imagination sort of run wild on an imageable day. Anything we had been doing in the course terrorist field up to that point counterterrorist field at that point was obsolete and woefully inadequate. So i started literally with the yellow pad sketching out the kind of things if the president directs us to do, question do, and that includes capturing and detaining highlevel terrorist, lethal operations against terrorist, whole mass of financial activities to get at the al qaeda money machine, things we sometimes thought about at cia in the years before but were so they were so risky and so aggressive that no president , we knew, would ever authorize it. But this time i knew that we were going to be asked to do things we had never done before. So i was blueskying it. Host it turns out you were very much on the mark. The cia was the lead agency, way before the Defense Department in going into afghanistan and trying to pick up individual, highvalue targets they were called, leaders of al qaeda, and at a certain point they capture one of the biggest, a bade da, who is the logistics head of al qaeda, helped plan 9 11, and within a couple of