Transcripts For CSPAN2 It Takes A Village Roundtable 20160724

Their besides the studying that i have to do. There has been no experience more challenging, more rewarding and more humbly than raising our daughter. And we have learned that to raise a happy, healthy and hopeful child, it takes a family. It takes teachers. It takes clergy. It takes Business People. It takes community leaders. It takes those that protect our health and safety. It takes all of us. [cheers and applause] yes, it takes a village. Host carlos lozada, when Hillary Clinton uses the term it takes a village, what do you think she means . Guest she starts with the family. She quickly moves beyond the family. She talks about a network of people of institutions and values. So teachers, neighbors, businesses, employers, even of course politicians as you see here in the clip. Teresa village Komeito Justina family, each other, community. You need a president. You need bill clinton. Host amie parnes, what do you hear . Guest i am hearing a very strong message of what she is trying to put out today, which is stronger together. This is her Newest Campaign message. Shes had quite a few of them. This is something where she is trying to start every chat and send sent her populist method and they were all in this together kind of thing. It is interesting to hear what she had to say back then and compare it to where she is today. Host hasnt been consistent . Guest it is that inconsistencies along the way. When you read this book, that is consistent on one model, but a little bit archaic in the 90s in another sense. Host what does hillary quit me much because it takes a village . Im not as crazy as you think i am. People look at her as the one who theyre not sure and made very clear. Im a centrist on a democrat time to update the democratic dirty and they dont quite know where hillary fits in. This is after the failure of the Health Care Reform to be the copresident and shes coming in saying i am one of you. Part of that stream and yes i have liberal ideals, but outside of conservative cultural sensitivity. Chivas tobaccos in switzerland and gives a speech about three pillars. She capsoff capitalism and free market. Talks about government and family and home. For 60s liberals who talk about family and capitalism was revolutionary. Just two or three weeks after the book was published was when bill clinton gave his famous era of Big Government is over speech. It was a big moment right then to declare that she did in this book i am a moderate. We all have some conservative values, some liberal values and we are mostly moderate. That was the message in it takes a village were surprisingly see a real streak of social conservatism in the story. Host she did after she did have to reintroduce herself. She is sort of within the thick of this health care fight. People have strong opinions of her. This is her tale about who she is in who she wanted to portray to the American People. Host i want to say she was traumatized. Shed been so rejected over the Health Care Debacle and she wants to show that she could really be a first lady. What is amazing is you see a cliche in the process of being born. It is her gift to the American People and attempt to say im important but also we can have a conversation together. Host the clip you showed is the 96 Convention Speech which was nine months after the book was published. She came back to it takes a village when she launched her late president ial campaign. She came back to it when she launched the 2016 campaign. A few weeks ago after clinching and people sort of finish the sentence for her now. Host it takes a village, glass ceiling, shes created all these cliches. Bill clinton has that warmth, that touch, but he doesnt have the same. Host lets look at her june 13, 2015 president ial election. Fundamentally, they reject what it takes to build an inclusive economy. It takes an inclusive society. [cheers and applause] what i once called a village that has a place for everyone. Now, my values and a lifetime of experiences have given me a different vision for america. I believe that success isnt measured by how much the wealthiest americans have, but by how many children to climb out of poverty. Host carlos lozada, in a recent review of it takes a village, you wrote that it takes a village often becomes code for it takes guest she talks about the successes of nonprofit groups, initiatives, but she very much comes back to so you need the family medical leave act, the crime bill. You know, the vaccination initiatives the government has undertaken. She is trying to thread the needle because she is not going to give up or cease to praise the successes that she sees them that the Clinton Administration has had or was pushing at the time. But at the same time, she tries to localize them when possible. Throughout the book, you see a lot of praise for what people would conventionally call the government, big washington initiatives, including some that come back to bite her in this campaign. Host she is sort of inviting academia, the turin. This is something the clintons do all the time. We see it in everything they have done throughout history. For something they do at the foundation. They believe in bringing everyone together. They think that everyone can come together and for new solutions. This is sort of a very interesting idea she is putting forward any continuation of what they believe in. Host is almost a radical rewrite. She same families are good, divorce is bad. Promiscuity is a problem here. For a long time, 60s, 70s, 80s, dallas conservative talk. I is a liberal can take back that language and talk about family values. One of the things you also see in this clip is the difficulty of being hillary. Shes trying to assert herself and define identity. In many ways, it is a problem because people are saying who are you. On the one hand shes most famous woman in the world. On the other hand, she is constantly adjusting, constantly changing and people dont trust back. Its a very strange thing because when bill clinton reinvents himself come to think do that all the time. Theres some sexism in there, too. And becomes the likability question ive written about countless times. Why is such a likable . She kind of fed on not where she said people dont trust her. She acknowledged this be achieved and to gain the trust back. I think it is probably one of the biggest questions that looms over her candidacy. Why cant she quite get there . Why is that she likable enough and that is something she constantly have to work towards. The likability and trustworthiness. If he did a soul scan of bill clinton and Hillary Clinton, you would find a pure soul and Hillary Clinton. She has a harder time line. I think that makes it very difficult to be a politician and as a result she is with bill clinton where hes at the moment they cannot i. Contact. Contact. Hes living it so completely that he can live in a lie. Her honesty makes her seem. Shes always quoting john wesley. This is a woman who strongly believes in the wesleyan principles that she is a Public Servant and she is a mess do good and bad as some and then i think when donald trump and questions her and you dont have to look very far to be aware of the origins are. Also in our subsequent memoirs, she talks a lot about the influence that her church had on her particularly when she was young. But there is this defensiveness in the book and this attempt every definition. In the 92 campaign there was the famous incident where she was the first lady who had a graduate degree if im not mistaken in the yell my degree. I couldve stayed home and bake cookies and had tea parties but i chose to exercise my professional capability long before my husband was in public life. And it takes a village, she started to apologize for it. Not entirely, as she calls it a teacup in the tempest or Something Like that. She says that made my share of cookies and ive had plenty and have served hundreds of cups of tea, but i shouldnt be judged by my cookie making ortiz serving abilities. She says what she didnt realize at the time, when she made those statements as people would interpret them as judgments on the road life choices. Throughout that, you see the effort which sometimes comes across with the fear of the hippocratic oath is first do no harm. She had done so much harm in health care she comes in and you could even see some of the signature stories i sanitized and that the peer she loves to tell the story about being a kid in the neighborhood and there is bullies and she came running in and mama clinton said get out. I am not letting you back in until you do with this. She says the taliban about. In it takes a village, she wants to be saint hilary. She wants to be calmer, more cautious. Theres a certain tragedy in that book, who she really is is that they are. Youll in her memoirs. Her second bomb more was deadly memoir was deadly. Host amie parnes, if somebody picked up in 1996 it takes a village, with a recognized and no Hillary Clinton . Guest a lot of it is very much a touch of who she is and the pillars are there. Parts of it are a little bit murkier. You know, a lot of that has changed in some of what she is saying applies to the 1990s in a very big way. There are things, a big pillar of this obviously she mentions family. You see that oakland says. Talk about divorce and how she had to bite her lip a little bit, you know, to keep their marriage together. That might strike people reading it today as if you are in an uncomfortable situation, why not do that. There are all these other things that seem 20 years ago. Maybe she might have a different take now on that sort of societal kind of pressure. Host she judges people who get divorced in this very direct way. She says sometimes till death do us part means until the going gets rough. And so, she pulls up the relationship that she and bill have. This is a horse before the big scandals of the late 90s as saying we found ways to sometimes bite your lip, but to Work Together in an atmosphere of respect and the fact that we had chelsea deep in my commitment. Host which is an intense cultural critique of what americans become. Theres a strong sense of nostalgia worried father knows best. Looking at america and in 1993 she had given a series of speeches to talk about the policies of meeting which are not at the same hillary and try to make it a little bit comment ,com,com ma a little bit more domesticated. There is a sense of something deep going on. She even quotes the words and talks about the backlash against hollywood in the backlash against the music videos and the records of the Recording Industry and shes fighting crime and i think we have to be sensitive to that in sympathetic to her. You have to look at whats going on in the night to 90s. In the 1990s ,com,com ma bill clinton says americans feel like they are living in a fun house and they are unnerved by it. Theres a sense of insecurity. Welfare is a problem not just for whites, for two thirds of africanamerican support the welfare reform and the crime bill. Or something wrong in this country. Weve got to fix it. The Reagan Administration didnt do enough. Forgot to take democratic ideas, values and synthesize them and fix this world. Host it is not surprising Hillary Clinton wrote that there is a journey for the good old days as a refuge from problems of the present. Both turning away, we blind ourselves to the continuing, evolving presence of the village in our lives and its critical importance for how we live together. She talks about nostalgia merchants to my very dismissive saying we are not going to go back to this world. First of all, it wasnt all bad. And second of all, the world has changed. At the same time, she criticizes the kids today. Whatever the kids were in the 1990s, for not recognizing the sacrifices and the advanced mens of their elders, i. E. Hillary clinton ,com,com ma her generation that entered the work force ,com,com ma the transfer of role of women in she feels a little hurt it seems than the book that people dont remember that. They take these dances for granted. So she deems the nostalgia merchants, but at the same time, she wishes there was more nostalgia for what she calmed dishes. I was particularly struck by she talks about the idea of the Nuclear Family and many paths that for a minute and look at her announcement video and it is this progressive look of a single mom who has to do her best and if you would have talked to Hillary Clinton about what she wrote back then about the Nuclear Family, i speak as a single mom, too. Weve moved a lot. They are Single Parents and that doesnt mean your kid is going to be any less successful. I would like to know, but came back, if she has any ideas and issues involved in the way politicians view back then. Host in reality she writes her past is not so pictureperfect African American children who grow up in a segregated society are immigrants who struggled to survive or women whose life choices were circumscribed and whose work was underpaid. Ask those who grew up in the pictureperfect house is about the secrets and desperation. Guest this is the tension. She is trying to say we missed that appeared, but we also have to acknowledge the period. One of the things thats next to Hillary Clinton in the 1970s with the big heavy glasses. Shes a brunette, not a blonde. She has that gone from being hillary brought him Hillary Rodham clinton. Shes trying to say i am not that it be. Im that radical. At the same time, we did some good stuff. Its a very complicated message that i respect because all too often in politics these days, it is right, left. And this book shes trying to have a little more synthesis. One of the challenges right now in 2000 she saw she could reach out to white males could she was running against a black male. Theres racism in america today. Right now, she is trying to say when she went super tuesday, she gives a speech and talks about reaching out to single women, hispanics. How she also reaching out to the donald trump voters . That will be a challenge for her in the general election. If the election is in play, Scott Schuman does white male voters and thats always been her weak spot. It was problematic when she was first lady and only through the clinton trauma or she able to reach out to them by going through more Traditional Space and in 2000 issue is able to out to them because what happens now. How do she articulate that . Or some secrets of the book that might help her find that cultural conservatism at trump his plane too. Host what is one of the secrets . Guest one of the secrets of families count. There were some good times back then. The whole question donald trump gets up and says im going to make america everyone goes great again. Hillary clinton says their silence. Now she is trying to play with we are still great. That doesnt work. What she wants to do is find them of the power from the past, show that she also appreciates that, but also with a synthesis of the goodness of the president because donald trump is all about rejecting today. The challenge for a politician says this is going to resonate a little from the past and the present to create a future. Host if you were donald trump, would you read it takes a village . Guest i would. I dont think you will. It gives you a sense of where she was and how far she has come and maybe some inconsistencies in between. But i think it gives you a pretty good portrayal of who she was back then and the pillars of who she is. Host the part of the deal is Donald Trumps foundational documents. It takes a village is absolutely Hillary Clintons. Except, unlike art of the deal, and it takes a village county detention, you see grappling. You see her groping for the synthesis of herself. Shrub is trump. In this book, hillary is wrestling. In this campaign, she had this famous moment when shes asked, are you a progressive . The answer is yes, im a progressive, the progressive slate to get things done. That suggests a mix of ideology and pragmatism. That is what you see in this book. She talks about the message, the 1850s, 60s and 70s. She wasnt going he learned from it, but she said im not going to go down your path. I want to get things done. The real tragedy if he would just read it. I think your question was really the more important one of how can anyone pull lessons from this, which can help us go forward. The major challenge in america right now as we are really good at knocking each other down. We are really good at denigrating, but whether we want . What are we searching for . Make America Great is not enough. We need to know who we are and what we stand for. One of the biggest lessons you can polish a talks about what it means. When we were writing our book, you know, i originally wanted to call at phoenix because she has had these rises and falls and dips and falls. Here she is again. How does she make her comeback . This sort of gives you a window into her thinking. Her father always said, how are you going to dig yourself out of this one, hillary . She uses that point blank. This speaks to who she is. She wants to start is make her way back up and she wants to pressure herself as this real tough fighter. So in that sense, i feel like this is a very rare insight into who she is. Host she goes on to say that she gets into using a shovel to dig herself out and sometimes has to use a backhoe. Guest we learned when we were writing her books, she is not one who will pull herself up in her bathroom and cried. She is a woman who says okay, that is over. But do not. How will we move onto the next thing . She doesnt wallow. She is very much looking to the future. When people around her wallow, she tries to pick them out. Host amie parnes and gil troy, you are both working on your second. What is the process like . Guest thats a very complicated question. I think that it is hard to actually find Hillary Clinton at times. You know, we spent a year on her first book, work in a little over a year talking and ibm that had a had a bit of a glimpse that we had cracked some part of who she was. You are always trying to dig a little deeper and find out who she is feared her friends say that she keeps it very kind of tightly held on purpose. She is who she is. Shes been in the spotlight for so long. This is her way of keeping herself almost intact in not revealing not. Shes almost afraid to show that side of her. Shes so funny behind the scenes and still warm in her aides talk about how the uncle is dying, she was the first to call that uncle are the first to greet. But you know, you seldom see that side of her publicly. You see a behind the scenes more, but shes afraid to show Hillary Clinton on the public stage. Host as an historian, im still trying to understand the interviewer. I dont need to interview her because i want to see age of clayton, age of clinton, america in the 1990s. Where does she fit into the story of the Clinton Administration . So they are in some ways easy and hard. The easy part is you have so much information. Shes such a central character. Still larger than life. Its fun to write about Hillary Clinton. She is lively, thoughtful, insightful, controversial. Where it is difficult as theres so much hatred around Hillary Clinton. She is so polarized. Not a word were supposed to use. There so much tension around her that you have to cut through all the negativity and start looking at whether she actually done and what is the impact shes had on the American People . This is a woman in the public eye for decades and has been a really powerful force in the shed. Geraldine ferraro, when she was nominated to be vice resident in 1884, the questions are can you be tough enough. As a woman will you press the Nuclear Button if necessary. Hillary clinton is pulverized those questions by being tough. We dont even ask those questions anymore, let alone a sense of her grid and intensity that says she can handle that. The toughness is there. Was part of a challenging 2008. They wanted to portray her as stature lake. They didnt want to expose gender and embrace it in a big way and the nature of the candidacy. She is sort of done the opposite this time around. You hear her talk about it so much more. You hear her embrace the fact that she would be the first female candidate or female president. This is a big moment for her. Until the very end of the 2008 campaign, she struggled with that. She was sitting at her dining room table with two aides and why she needed to thank all these people, embrace the gender thing. Here she is. Shes done the opposite. Shes done a 180 that time around it thats been fascinating to watch. It was such a hit. Now when she clenched the nomination after california, she had this Video Montage introduction to her speech in brooklyn and it was all about the historic gender driven aspect of the campaign. She has come to terms with that very much so in this election. What jill mentioned about this polarizing, controversial nature. Remember when the book came out it takes a village, in the middle of this master in her book tour, all people wanted to ask her about what the billing records from her arkansas law firm because that was a big controversy. She had to testify before a grand jury. The book kind of got lost between the first lady. I think in the first memoir, she tells the story that after she testifies before a grand jury on the billing records, one of the jurors approached her with a copy to sign a few autographs a copy of it takes a village amateur was just as from the trial. They have this Barbara Walters interview and it was supposed to be about the book and the first thing Barbara Walters asks her is why is there always this mess going on around you . What is going on . It was a struggle because she was trying to redefine herself in the book a loss at that moment. She is a serious person. Shes this moralist. She loves to play the role of the moralist and get she and bill clinton have this moral blind spot. They have this ability to fall into these whitewater masses and in all masses and say you can always blame everybody else. At a certain point, you have to take some responsibility and say what is going on within you that you cannot see how you are being first eve. Eve. Perceived. Gil all the time and she falls into these moral messes. I have to hold her and bill responsible for some of it. What is it like to review books on Hillary Clinton, on the clintons, and we counted them, over 150 books have been written about Hillary Clinton. It is hard to chose. You dont know what book is going to be worth reading. Your books are awesome. But there is so much. It is both this blessing to have this material and the same thing about books about barack obama. Hillary clinton has been in the public eye for a long time. When obama came to the presidency there was just this onslaught of books into every aspect of his life. Some are entirely partisan. Some are really thoughtful. So with hillary it is just a longer time horizon. I am a sucker for this stuff. I love reading political books. Host amie parnes, you brought this up, but does Hillary Clinton take on gender in it takes a village amie she does in issues like equal pay and child care which is a huge sure for her right now. You read her material on this and it is insightful but says most people are paying crazy amounts of money on childcare. I am one of them so i can relate. People have to make decisions about whether to she uses the example of a woman who has to leave or child in the car all day and this is an extreme example but the decisions women have to make. She focuses on women and the support network they need around them. That translates into items she is trying to push together like childcare and equal pay. You are seeing the beginnings of what she does, if she is thinking about politics and running there, you know, what the feelings she is dropping along the ways to make that tree kind of grow. I do think she embraces women in a big way in that book. She is carefully avoiding the fword. Feminist. She comes in as a first lady and has to once again dance that dance. She wants to show she is sensitive to women, she wants to see she is a modern woman, but doesnt want to be handcuffed as that feminist and ran into a lot of static with that as first lady of arkansas. People didnt like that yankee feminist coming down with her yankee ways and ran into that with the 1992 campaign. Part of the backlash against her was you have contempt for anyone who is not in the work world. Here in it takes a village she wants to show love and support for women who are at home and love and support for women in the workforce. It is difficult. It is a little bit of that i am okay, you are okay. She does it in a wonky way. Not a mysterious argument. But it is more about health insurance, and child care. She even acknowledges it is controversial. She said do you want to open the flood gates of guilt and disagreement in america just Start Talking about childcare. Right . She sticks to it is a statement of values, this book, but it is very much through prism of actionable policy. It is a values book by a wonk. Amie i found Something Interesting and i can relate to and that is as a woman you are thinking about your children at work, i am paraphrasing, and you are thinking about the work you left behind. So your heart is always for rent. Host and she goes on to say she doesnt use the term juggle because someone said when you juggle you will drop something and she uses patchwork method. Despite the resurgence of antigovernment extremism, she writes, it is becoming clear most americans dont favor a radical dismantling of government. That is the clinton way. She is singing the song of the third way. Yes, we learned lessons by overdoing it, and we learned lessons i think every single problem has a governmental solution. But we cannot go the reagan way or the Rush Limbaugh way. In the 1990 Rush Limbaugh was a powerful voice and you fell his negative presence in the book saying we are not Rush Limbaugh. She wants to say to americans we will use government but use it in a way that is smart, balanced and has this synthesis and that is where she put in the Government Solutions in the context of civil society, in the context of the market and the c context of society. Carlos she says there is a collective gratitude for the things the government has done along with long standing deep skepticism of the government. She said most of us would say we are middle of the road. She braces being a moderate in this book which is fascinating reading it now during a campaign where she has been pushed hard to the left. Host she writes she supports capitalism. Amie that is something she had to walk a fine line this election cycle, particularly in the primary, people were trying to peg her as prowall street and another question that kind of leans over here is how prowall street is she . And what does she plan to do to sort of, you know, cater to these Bernie Sanders supporters who are antibig bank and you know . I think that is going to be something that an a lot of them want to hear before they endorse her. Host this is what she wrote in 1996. In times of profound and overwhelming social change like the other, however extreme views hold out the appeal of simplicity by ignoring the comple complexity of the forces that shape our circumstances and they offer a scapegoat and fail to provide a valuable pathway from the cold war to the global village. Is that pertinent today . Very much so. You see the moderates delima and Hillary Clinton trouble of not coming across as a prick and not just lecturing everybody. When tip oneill was speaker of the house, this good irish catholic, liberal democrat, he would yell at Business People and say how can you dont like government . You fought for the gi bill. You know how much your life is better because we have government and Hillary Clinton cant uncork. She can not uncork against Bernie Sanders, donald trump, and Elizabeth Warren who are pushing her how to do that. You want to show your moderation is not from balancing but a passionate commitment to the American People and to the american way that requires a little complexity but is deeply committed to core values. What is she going to fight on . That is one of the questions americans are asking and that leads to the trustworthiness question. Host do you find Hillary Clintons core in this book . Carlos i think that she certainly views it that way. She says very deliberately this is a book that reflects by values. She wanted to write it. She wrote in the subsequent words i wanted to write this book and she is telling us this is the set of core values. What is in her heart and soul . I would love to see the soul xray that gil is talking about. I think this is as close as we are likely to get of a real Hillary Clinton political core at least. I dont know about her moral human core. This is as close to a manifesto as she has ever produced and is likely to produce. Gil it is after the Health Care Reform debacle and the white water problem emerges and there is not two for the price of one. You will not be copresident. You will run health care and bill clinton fires her in the Health Care Arena and she goes back to the drawing board and as a good fancy pants, well educated person, writes a term payable about who she is and she does have, as i said earlier, sanitize it. Make a little calmer but i think this is who she wants to be. There is the other issue what extent is her and what extent is the ghost writer. I think it is fine they like pig pen with the crowd of controversial around the clintons. Host what is the cloud of controversy with barbara . Gil when you are first lady and your day is scheduled from start to finish and you have the resources to hire someone you will hire someone to help. She hired a ghost writer for 120,000. Nancy reagan acknowledges she did the same thing. It is accepted. But in the acknowledgment page she said it takes a village to write and doesnt specify anyone. The fact she doesnt specify this particular women who had worked on it so intensely shows a kind of clinton esque insecurity, insensitivity and sloppyness because it sl sloppiness. And it would have gone a long way. So now it popped up Hillary Clinton is being disrespectful to this woman. You have to say what extent was it her moral culpability because she didnt see what it looked like to pay someone to write the book and enjoy the glory and not give the person who worked on it any credit. Carlos many people helped complete this one, sometimes without knowing it, they are so numerous that i will not even attempt to acknowledge them individually for fear i might leave somebody out. Gil she left somebody out. Carlos this is someone who i believe is still a professor of journalism and english at georgetown and she has collaborated with many notable figures on books in this manner. So it wouldnt have been a very unusual thing to do. I dont think in the historical memory it would have been any way diminished this as a Hillary Clinton statement. Amie it is what politicians do. Every politician, and she has had ghost writers in her next couple books, speechwriters, her speech writer helped her write her last back; hard choices she went out of her way to say who helped in that endeavor and as an author i can say it is an endeavor. Carlos many politicians do this. Some give perhaps way too much freedom and power to the speechwriters or to the ghostwriters and dont do much of the bock themselves. There was supposedly a reagan story where she was asked about his memoir and he laughed and said i heard it was great. From what i understand, the way it worked was it was almost fineman interviewing the book with Hillary Clinton, they would have long conversations, she would draft material and Hillary Clinton would edit it which for a politician that is writing a book. Gil it gets to the question of what is the missing gene . Why the need to come across perfect and say it was totally my project . And why this inability to acknowledge others . That leads to questions what she is and what kind of white house she might run. Amie one thing i will say is she is very much a student. At the state department, she sat with career people who could explain and go around the map and explain the world to her. She wants to learn more. She is not some politician who, you know, just needs talking points and that is basically it. She wants to know abcde and possibly f. She knows they need to come prepared to meetings because she will want answers and she is one who will spend the day on a sunday reading and clipping out newspapers and often giving them to aids and saying look into this and report back. And they know she is not just saying that but she will follow up and take people issues and follows up on them. That is something, at the Statement Department someone came and complained to her about they would like to work and wanted to shower at the state department. It seems like a really insignificant thing but followed up for months on are we putting in the showers . She follows up on the smallest thing even. Gil is that a plus or minus . During the jimmy carter days people made fun of the fact he was such an engineer and he was in charge of the white house tennis schedule and was micr micromanaging. And a politician has to know what to Pay Attention and and what not. We have not spoken much about bill clinton who looms large and he is not mentioned in the acknowledgment; right . Bill clintons genius is the ability to be the wonk, the policy guy, do the homework and have the human touch. And Hillary Clinton, who was raised by her mother dorothy with the hope she would be the First Female Supreme Court justice not the first female president who was known in the 1950s as a horrible sexist phrase as sister frigid air who has that colder side and she is now in the biggest, most political game of all, running for president and bill clinton was able to balance those. Her inability to balance the political side, that warm side, that fuzzy side, that human side. Being Margaret Thatcher like is hard for her. Carlos i think one of the town halls or primary Campaign Events she said look, i am not a natural politician like my husband. It was this great human moment where she said something that everyone knows but just her acknowledgment of it to suggest vulnerability, self awareness, was a terrific moment. Gil how do you win the presidency and run the country if you are not a good politician . Amie she is saying wait, i am good at governing. Host in it takes a village here is an appearance by bill clinton. She wrote my feelings about divorce and effects on children have caused me to bite my own tongue in marriage and think about what i can do to be a better wife and partner. My husband did the same thing. Bill and i have worked hard on our marriage with a deal of respect and we have gil carlos from the very beginning she talks about bill goes to lumaz class and was lost. She talks about bill reading stories to chelsea at night. She talks about this fun story living in the government mansion. Little chelsea loved Curious George and george is always eating coconut and they go out and buy one and had no idea how to open. They stab it and finally take it outside and beat it on the driveway of the governors mansion. And their security people are starring at them. There are humanizing, personal touch stories about bill in the book. It is bill the father, bill the caring husband, and then immediately and that is why bill signed the medical family leave act. She draws that and publishers do it all of the time. They connect personal antedote to big policy initiatives as a way to humanize them. Maybe she is using bill in that sense in the book but you get some personal elements of bill clinton being part of, and for them, part of this village. Amie and a little look at chelsea because she had been so protected by them. So seeing them build out their to portray chelsea as a child and how she grew up and a glimpse at who she was. I am about her age and i never understood her at the time. Going back and reading that gives you a glimpse at the family dynamic. Gil there is a revealing story about Hillary Clintons mother who had a huge impact on her. She and her younger sister, when i think nine and younger sister were three, were sent across the country alone by the mother and ended up on the train living with their grandmother who hated them. This is a terrible story and the message dorothy drove home is you dont get divorced. Family is essential. I think one of the things Hillary Clinton said throughout her career is we have had ups and downs throughout the marriage. Bill and hillary are angry when people say it is an arrangement. We might break each others heart but we fulfill each other. The use of chelsea is a way of saying we are not this soulless, childless yuppie couple. She said children dont come with an instructional manual and tells stories about incompetence not knowing how to breast feed. I understand how steep the learning curve is especially the first year of life but nevertheless there is something about the way she tells those stories i was raised to be intellectual and the feminist and i wasnt sure how to make this leap in the great beyond and now i want to help others do that. But it is all learned. It is not instinctive. Host to go back to the mother on the train story, clinton talks about the facts relatives out there, a great aunt or cousin, helped her mother. Stepped in and helped and that goes to the village. Gil right. That is the village. I joked about it becoming a cliche but creating a cliche is an amazing thing. Thing about the power and insight it requires where the society is at. Think about the platform she has and she takes it and uses it in a powerful way. It is answering the questions americans didnt even know they had to ask. It is answering the question of who are we, where do we go, we are post the sexual revolution, post60s and civil rights and had the reagan counter attack which is a synthesis bringing in the crazy idea and mainstreaming them. She is saying it takes a village. It is way more poplar in polls and better than a third way. It showed americans didnt want to be so lonely. They didnt want to be hype hyperindividuals. What is more welcoming than a village . A village speaks not only about people but values and about life and about tradition while also being in the real world. Host amie parnes, before you wrote your book on Hillary Clinton did you read it takes a village . Amie yes, we ready everything on Hillary Clinton that you can imagine. Host what did you learn that helped in your writing of hrc . Amie i think getting a sense of the family dynamic and the fact she struggled and tried to present herself as human. A human side of hillary and that was always what we were striving to answer. Who is Hillary Clinton and you know she talks about making choices and how she was a young lawyer and had to go to trial and chelsea was sick at the time and bill clinton was away traveling and what does she do . These are sort of issues people can identify with. Certainly today i can definitely identify with that sort of thing. But you know, it does give you more of a glimpse i would this is the most real book of all the clinton books she has written. I read it with interest and read it again with interest to look back at her connection between what she is trying to present today, stronger together, and this and how the cohesive part of that comes together. Host would you degree with amie parnes this is the most real of the clinton books, carlos . Carlos i would. And that is a statement on the quality of it takes a village and on what i think it is a significant dropoff in the following two books especially hard choices. I thought the book before hard choices was interesting and she tells the full story of responding to the scandal. Hard choices is hard to read. And it takes a village is not. It is interesting. She moves through a lot of different material. I would say the other books suffer greatly in comparison. Amie can we talk about the lewinski thing. I think we were trying to get out what does she do and she expresses getting angry and we wanted to see that side of her. We didnt want to see the buttoned up, pant suit Hillary Clinton. Every woman wanted to relate to that feeling of you did this, what did you do . And so i think she does sort of you know she has her realer moments in living history but i stick to my First Response and agree with carlos this is the most real portrayal. Gil i read it takes a village with a much more critical eye. I had a stack of her speeches, interview and her realtime. And comparing that stack to tthe reading in it takes a village it was disconcerting. A lot of her passion and emotions were put in a blender to make them more palatable to the American Public and it felt she wanted to be this much more complicated, multi dimensional policy wonk and came up with this book that is very firstladylike. It felt like it could be on the shelf and substantially more than the barbara bush book. There was something safe and cautious about the book. When i read living history that i felt was much more real and honest because it was related to bill clintons deadly along memoir. And in hard choices she said i want the pay off for the book. Host this is novelist martin amos review from march of 1996 it takes a village looks like a book, feels like a book but in spornt respect it isnt a book. It is a reelection pamplet. It is a 300page press release. We have to imagine hillary in her old building with a staff of 15 women and one man, plus Barbara Fineman and other helpers, so numerous i will not even attempt to acknowledge them individually, martialing her manuscript to reduce it to being in offended. This is a big job because being offended is now a part of the culture. Carlos i think what he is egg there applies to almost any saying politician with continued political aspirations. All of these books should be regarded in the extreme as propaganda. Right . They are you ask does this reveal Hillary Clintons core . It reveals what they want us to see about Hillary Clintons core and that might be as close as we get. I understand what that particular review says. I think it is broadly applicable to most political books. If you measure it in that universe, i suspect this may be more revealing. Gil 20 years later it reads more honest. When i reread it i said there is more surstance and that is because we are more substance cautious and in the got you mode. The context shifted and we are in a different part of history. So things that were controversial now were not then on hollywood and culture and crime and welfare. We feel like we have seeing a three dimensional Hillary Clinton. Amie and politicians become buttoned up over time. It is like pulling teeth to just get them to admit something was said in a room. We are encountering that this time as well. It is interesting because in that sense i feel like if she had written that book today it would not be as revealing. Gil we live in the age of twitter now and have a republican candidate who emerged from twitter. A tweet is 140 characters and revealed so little that 300 pages of press release it will show more of who you are and what you believe. Host amie parnes, you are a Senior Writer for the for the white house and you wrote hrc and you mentioned you are working on a sequel. Amie we are. It picked up where it left off. We left off and she is running she is not quite running, we believe she is running. Carlos she is running. Amie we wrote the book thinking she would run and that was the impetus for writing how she governed as secretary of state. We pickup there and tell the story. Does she figure out what went wrong in 2008 . How did she learn in 2008 . What lessons are applied in this campaign and we tell the stories there and had ups and downs and the big question does she win . And of course we will know the answer when the book comes out but how did she get there if she did win and if she loses where did she learn . It is coming out spring of 2017. My coauthor is Jonathan Alan of side wire. Host who was he with during the first book . Amie politico. Host why did you say that you should not use the word polarizing, gil . Gil they had a list of terms they deemed nonfeminist and polarizing was one of them. I dont believe it is gender based. Host is there a dog whistle in the word polarized, amie parnes . Amie maybe a little. We have come so far but i feel like we regressed on the political spectrum. I think it is seen as a word that is almost a taboo. It is interesting because i dont see it that way but in the broader scheme, yeah. Gil i talk about the complexity of being a woman and a leader in my defense. Host carlos, you were trying to step in there. Carlos i think we talked about the arc of Hillary Clintons book. And in hind sight i was too harsh on living history which i think is better than hard choices but i will say the one thing she hasnt written about and the only thing i want to read is about the 08 campaign. It takes a village is published in 1996 and living history is a conventional memoir and talks us through being the first lady and running for senate and hard choices picks up after she was secretary of state. Amie it is the beginning of how she comes to terms with the meeting of obama. Carlos then agree to be secretary of state she said. And she wins the presidency or loses the campaign, this is probably the next book coming, that will deal with it but i would love to read about 08 and how she thought about that campaign, how she thought about herself in that campaign. It was her time. Right . It was supposed to happen. Who is this obama guy . Shame on you, barack obama. That famous clip. That is what i would love to read. That is what is missing in so far the Hillary Clinton autobiblioggraphy. Host we did this with Donald Trumps the art of the deal and you are participating in this program, carlos, as well. Is there a different dynamic than the constitution in donald trump . Carlos analysis in real time. I think in both cases we are mining these books that were written decades ago for insight into the a human being and a candidate today. I think with it takes a village we are more inclined and it may be a function of the book or the panel but we are more inclined to look for the ambiguities and con ttradictioc in Hillary Clinton and wallow in them. In the art of the deal i think it is much more of this is who donald trump is and this is how the way that he presents himself is potentially going to translate into the both his campaign and how he would govern. We seemed more inclined, i have to go back and watch the tapes, but more inclined to draw a Straight Line with donald trump. Maybe that suggests greater simplicity. I dont know what that suggests. But with Hillary Clinton it all seems like it is ziging and zaging and more meandering which makes perhaps less of a charact character. Host many people believe we cannot guarantee health care to all because of cost, miss clinton writes, in fact a sensible universal system would end up costing us less and until we are willing to take a long, hard look at our Health Care System and commit ourselves to making Affordable Care available to every america the village will continue to burn house by house. 1996. Gil burn. Amie i know. Health care is always going to be seen as Hillary Clintons baby, i think. It was her pet issue as first lady. Someone she talks about now. She fully embraced obamas plan in 2009 and was sort of the cheerleader behind the scenes in the summer of 2009 when other cabinet secretary members had their priorities. She said this is our time. We control both houses, lets cease the moment. And there is the famous portrait of her hugging the president on the day it passes or the day after it passes. It is always going to be seen as her issue. Gil it is also her failure. In 94 she failed and it raises questions on what kind of governance and leadership she can bring. Carlos it is fascinating it was dubbed a huge failure and she likes to bring it up. She brings it up in the campaign to say basically i was into that before it was cool; right . The line she always said is i fought for health care and i have the scars to prove it. There were no scars yet. The wounds were fresh. That is what she brings it up in vivid language. But now the fact that she bought and failed is held up as this badge of honor. She did this before and that shows something about her judgment and vision even if it was at the time a huge failure that completely shook her. Gil and they lost the 94 Midterm Election as a result. 96 they are not sure they will win reelection. But in 1995 when she writes the book they are not sure and bill clinton didnt break 50 in the population vote. This was a moment of downer. The 94 loss is one of the reasons she runs into the nunnery, the intellectual monastery of writing this book because of the health care failure. Host gil troy, i share my husbands belief that nothing in the First Amendment converts our Public School into religiousfree zones or requires all religious expression to be left behind at the School House Door and religion is too important in our history and heritage to keep it out of the schools. Gil this is part of hillarys conservative behavior. Bill clinton and barack obama anyhow the only way to be elected is if you belief in faith, family and the flag. They have tried very hard not to get upstaged on questions of patriotism the flag, questions of faith which is religion, and on family with the clintons and barack obama they tried to emphasis on the family in terms of children and one of the great tragedies for the bill Clinton Administration is all of the rhetoric Hillary Clinton gives about family and bill clinton gives about families, bill clintons weakness with women led to it being a mockery. It comes from a very deep part of Hillary Clintons soul. It goes also to a division in the 1960s. He we tend to talk about the hippies being radical lefties. Hillary clinton bought the radical critique but compared to what was going on in the 1970s she was that good girl from illinois. That former gold water girl. For her, faith, church, and family are important values she didnt want to compromise. Carlos we are still fighting about the 60s. Hillary clinton and donald trump is a fight over who was the baby boomer . Was it the george w. Bush for donald trump or was it the Hillary Clinton, antivietnam bill clinton baby boomer. Host amie parnes, ultimately what schools need most from the village had high standards to live up to are some people disagree claiming involuntary standards interfere with local control permiting outsiders to determine what is taught. I strongly favor choice among president schools much as the president S Charter School initiative encourages. Amie it is an interesting thought. Smng that seems a Little Something i dont know if she would say the same thing today. Host if you had been Bernie Sanders would you have read this book . Amie probably. And he probably did. As opposed to trump he would probably have picked it up. But you know, here he is fighting for one of their biggest discrepancies or fights is over free college. Free public college. He want to make it a thing Going Forward even. I think that is one of the reasons he hasnt endorsed her and is Still Holding on because he and her people think of it as a pipe dream she. Carlos in the book she endorses school uniforms, knocks teachers and administrators for just caring about the budget. She almost sounds like george w. Bush saying the biggest obstacle is low expectations. That is george ws line. It reoccurs or Something Like it in this book. It is interesting to see that what probably placed her in sort of a centerist position in the culture wars in the 90s is very much out of step with where her party is today and where she has had to go in the campaign. Gil a politician who changed every in 20 years or a politician who changed nothing in 20 years which is scarier . Hac Hillary Clinton has to explain by being in the political eye for decades not everything meshes and has to explain the rational of what kept her going, what is her Core Principles and why she adapted and changed. Host gil troy, are there Core Principles in this book in your view . Gil absolutely. I think it goes back to the three ideas which are free market, she believes in family, and she believes in government and wants to figure out how to make the three work and mesh. I do believe if she becomes president that will be her challenge. We could probably proith right now use that book as a text for the inauguration address she wrote for 2009 and is probably writing for 2017. I think the fundamentals are there. The nuance might change but the basically Hillary Clinton formula which is understanding the power and beauty of the 1950s and understanding the racism, sexism and the insanity and building on the revolutions of the 60s, and applying the lessons of the 70s and 80s and applying the 1990s is what they would want to apply in an ideal world today. Host and amie parnes, i will start with you after showing this video. This is Hillary Clinton on book tour in 1996 for it takes a village she appeared on cspans old book notes program. The stakes have been raised on the partisanship. Many people shoot before they aim. They dont get the facts. They are quick to make outrage statements. I think the press feels it has a vested interest in trying to stay ahead of whatever is going on so if they go out there no one can say they were behind the curve even though a week or two later it proves not to be important. The nature of press coverage, plus the increasing mean spirited ness of the partisanship. I understand why it occurred. It has been a mutual relationship. It is not one side or the others fault. I wouldnt say that. It is the decibel level that is raised on both sides. I dont think it is good for the country that people scream at each other and accuse each other of saying amie you look at that clip and all you can think of is where we are now and how that applies to today in donald trump and, man, if she could have, you know, watched that i am curious to see what she would say today because we have changed in in such an a crazy way. I think we see it from a whole new level. Watching her say that right now is humorous, i think. Host doesnt it say and that is 20 years old that the press hasnt changed . They still want to be the first of the story, they still want to get out there and look for the, you know, the ticktock of a campaign. Amie it is true and one reason she admitted he doesnt care for the National Press core that travels with her. She wants to talk to the local press that care about the issues and i think that is something president obama does when he invites in the local press to talk about their specific issues but doesnt walk to talk about the story of the day, if you will. Carlos there is Something Real there about so much has been said about Donald Trumps relationship with the press. But Hillary Clinton here people talk about a liberal or conservative bias in the media. The real bias she is identifying more accurately is a bias toward conflict. Whatever side happens to be on. And that is not gratuitious. Some of the most interesting thing reporters can focus on are where the conflicts are between the offices. To say the media thrives on conflict is true and not always bad. Sometimes that is the job. I think the conflict you are seeing in this campaign is a magnitude worse than what she was dealing with but at the time she probably thought it was horrific. Gil one reason is the 1990s was inventing today. In the 1990s there is a historical line going back to jackson and lincoln and things said about thim. But in the 1990s with the rise of blogs and talk radio and the collapse of the Mainstream Press core things do get uglier. Things get out of control. And you can see the template being build built and we are making it worse. We forget the clintons came in and it was a yuppie thing. Their generation of reporters was going to welcome this generation of politics and they run into white water, Health Care Debate and negative coverage and they are furious. I call the Clintons Administration the angriest in history outside of nixon. They declare war on the press and there is a major power struggle in the 1990s that might appear to be childs play but it is playing out then. You speak to clintonites and they say they were jealous of us. Antisouthern bias. Everybody has their theory in the same way the george w. Bush people say it is because of he was a conservative and the Obama Administration say it was because of racism. Each one tells you their president was bashed more than any other president in american history. As a historian, i step back and say what is going on here . There is a sense of people that the level of criticism is out of control. In a sense it is often people in the bleachers watching and there is a new level of power the press has postwatergate and 24 7 media that has people unnerved. Host we will go back to where why started and start with gil troy this time we in the few minutes we have remaining, if you picked up it takes a village today would you learn about Hillary Clinton and would you learn what her politics in 2016 are like . Gil i think you would learn she is more trust worthy and likable than given credit for and you would learn here is a person that thinks the struggles, which is a good thing for politician, and is really trying to understand how modern america can learn from the past and forge a new future. She is someone who understands many of the challenges and believes that basic liberalism tempered by conservatives and cultural sensitivity could do the job. Host is that how she is campaigning in 2016 . Gil that is the way she is campaigning on some days. She goes back and forth so i have a hard time getting a sense. I think in the general election we will see a move toward that. My guess is the more we get closer to november 8th, the more we hear it takes a village in her speech and had less we hear Bernie Sanders. I believe they will see they need to play to middle america, White American males, ohio, pennsylvania, michigan, the swing voters. That book today has a potential to appeal to them in a way that Bernie Sanders bible doesnt. Host carlos . Carlos i think you learn more about Hillary Clinton reading this book. I didnt read it when it came out. I only read it over the past year. I got a sense of her i had not seen in her memiors or public appearances. She is someone who grapples with things. I am less optimistic about it of this hillary emerging so much in the general Election Campaign because i think so much of this campaign is going to be about less of who she is and more about her not being donald trump; right . When you have this outlandish, unexpected, unconventional on the other side, i imagine a lot is going to be defined against that. Unfortunately that means Hillary Clinton will remain allusive as she has been for so long. Host amie parnes . Amie i think it is both. You are seeing more with stronger together. She made her way through quite a few slogans and messages and none of them stuck but this one is a pivot to the general. I think we do hear more of the broader theme it takes a village and i will sure she will recite those words. I did learn something about her a few years ago when i read the book in preparation for my book with Jonathan Alan and recently when i reread it, it does give you a sense, a window into who she is and answering that larger question who is Hillary Clinton and i think that is something she needs to sort of continue to do in the lead up to the general. She has to sort of make that, you know, she has to answer that question a little better than she has. And i think she and her aids are aware of that at the moment. Host amie parnes, Senior Writer for the white house and author of the hrc and gil troy is a history teacher and visit scholar at Brookings Institution and the author of several books. Thank you all for being on booktv. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Here is look at some of the upcoming book fairs and festivals around the country. Saturday, august 22nd, we are live at the mississippi book festival featuring trent lot and john meechm. Coming up on september 18t, the brooklyn book festival held in downtown brooklyn, new york. Later in the month, the baltimore festival takes place at the city harbor. And for the 16th year in a row, booktv is live with author talks and callin segments from the National Book festival hosted by the library of congress at the Washington Convention center. For more information about the book fairs and festivals booktv will be watching and watch previous coverage, click on the book fairs tab on our website booktv. Org. I write for the guardian and they did an analysis of the comments on the side and they found i am the number one harassed writer on the site. Not so shockingly, right . It was mostly women and men of color. Actually men with most hated. Hey so we have the great honor of being the most harassed people at the guardian. Yeah, it is, you know, right. So like the wonderful thing about a lot of Online Platforms is you can share stories and find support and a terrible thing is there is all of this. Not like you are stupid but yem i am going to rape you and terrifying tough. I am really proud to work for a place like the guardian where they take this internal look at what they can do better to make the platform better. But in terms of social media, i think it is a little trickier because there is no financial incentive to change anything. I will say beyond there is what happens to individual writers and a lot of the book deals with trying to work through what being called a cunt for ten years or getting Online Harassment does to you but i worry about the broader implications on what it means to be a writer and who will share their voice. I speak on College Campuses and at every place i speak, a young woman comes up to me and says i thought i want to be a writer and i see the harassment you get and i dont know. Or should i become a writer . And i cannot say sure, it will be fine. I cannot tell them that in good faith. I have a really big concern about the generations of voices for marginalized communities we are loosing out on because of this harassment. Because why would you want to put yourself in that situation . Right . You can watch this and other programs online at