Read . Look, i like anything that Steven Ambrose wrote. He was really a lot of range in in writing. Very good, obviously, john John Mccollough is an excellent historian. It have focused on british history and, you know, these were not all all, you know, histories but, boy, churchill was always worth reading whether its memoirs, whether he had a wonderful little book called great contemporaries written in the 20s which nexton did a follow on kind of book himself. I like to read Richard Nixon stuff. I like to read about Richard Nixon. Fascinating politician of my life and i thought the things that he wrote were really quite good. Did your reading help you in your work as a congressman . It does. History in particular provides a lot of context, a lot of analogies, frankly a lot of understanding because most people when they get to congress they sort of think history begins with them, but youre really stepping into the flow and if you read particularly contemporary history, a lot of interesting not only parallels but background quite frankly to whats going on. You want to understand congress. John berry wrote a book called the ambition and the power. Berry is a substantive writer that what was it . Gosh, 1927 flood mississippi, i think rising tide or something. But he happened he got hooked up with speaker wright before he realized they he was in his last year and he was going to write a book about congress and turned into, you know, the rise and fall of of, you know, speaker wright and theres a lot of characters in there. In that case a lot of people that i know, newt gringrich, guys like west watkins, more consequential figures in the sense that they were close that you read about. Those things are extraordinarily helpful and sometimes when older members are more senior members are telling stories, you know, you know something about the context of the story that it really comes out of. I love al rogers, al rogers has been here since the chairman of appropriations, my chairman, hahs been here since 1980 and when he starts telling you stories about guys that got in the 1950s, its fabulous. Any other books that you would recommend about congress or that yaw read before you took your seat . One of the most interesting books and its not about congress per per say. Its a biography but lynne cheney biography of madison is a good book. This is a guy that in many ways shaped the system, so to speak, in terms of the constitution and in serving in the body in its first term. Hes always worth raiding about. I like these things, again, nixon, is good, im trying to remember johnson series. Robert carl. Those are spectacular. They really nobody knew this institution, the senate, the presidency obviously just the breath of american politics like he did. I had an opportunity to meet him on several occasions. Really, really knew this but i would also say that the biography of of gerald ford obviously because he even though he was a president a very much creature of the house. Maybe joe cannon. I think youre right with luke cannon. Maybe. I think it was time and chance or Something Like that. It was a wonderful book. Youre lost in the politics of the era because this guy comes in the 40s, you know, minority leader, thats an awful lot of history. And years ago i worked for a guy that not enough people remember, they should jack who was a creator of the modern Political Campaign committee at the nrcc and arrived in 1966 and lost republican primary in 92. Youre talking about a guy that understood the institution because he was involved in campaigns all across the country, he was a consequential legislator and delivered nominational speech and pretty cool guy and ability to tell stories, recount institutions, observations, i used to call him moses because he got us right to the edge of the promise land and he had not lost 92 primary he would have been reelected as nrcc chairman and probably did more to bring it on than any single guy. So just you pick up some of the listing of members an some of it reading. When you read the older biographies about john jon or gerald ford and you say, the house doesnt work that way . Obviously house changes with the times. Although there are lots of elements that are the same and i like to think honestly the Appropriations Committee is a Little Island that actually pretty much functions the way it was supposed to. Now that wasnt always true. It went through a rough time but rogers who very much in the best sense of the word a institutionalist, creature of the house, so to speak, has really done a lot, i think, to restore that in the hopes that it can spread more broadly across congress. Theres no question we live in a very divided ideological time and where the ability to arrive at consensus or make a deal or literally, i have a lot of good friends on the other side but theres not that many issues that you can work on like predecessors did. Do you ever read books of Andrew Jackson. [laughter] my grandfather was forcibly removed from mississippi some of the last chickasaws to come out. We were raised with i use today tell people, when i was 5 years old i wasnt sure who Andrew Jackson was but i knew he was a very bad man, my grandmother wouldnt carry a 20dollar bill. So, yeah, ive read i remember when robert was the historian of the house and written a wonderful book on congress, i should have mentioned him, but roy blunt who has a hes a big reader, you should talk to roy sometime. Roy he invites me up and hes chief whip to have lunch with dr. Remini and presents me with a copy of jacksons indian wars and presents rodney with a copy of henry clay biography because rodney, i think it was his great, great grandfather theodore who ran on the ticket with henry clay and actually held the floor against indian removal for three days, so we were both sort of jackson enemies by decent and but it was i remember remini handing me the book saying, now, you probably wont agree with my thesis in this book but i want you to read it and think about it and come back and the argument was basically not that he meant to do it but that, you know n some ways the removal of the five, you know, great tribes of the southeast cherokees, chickasaws, seminole, thats a unique explanation for violating treaty rights and what was effectively ethnic cleansing of the southeast of the country. So as i told him, i said i dont agree with you in some ways but i will say this, i remember having gone at the same time frame we had a festival in oklahoma, a greatgapped father who was the chief of the chickasaw nation. It is amazing. That might not have been the case. We might not have survived in quite the same way we did because we were a large tribe, 60,000person tribe but, you know, you dont have anything anywhere near that size on the east coast and the areas where you obviously had european and then american conflict and contact. What about books on native American History . Oh, gosh. I read a lot of them. Charles manns book is where you ought to start. Its not so much native american. Its 1491. Whats the state of the indigenous population in north and south america on the eve of european arrival and what had happened and the contact was and everything man makes the case that the disease alone was much, much greater in terms of the number of people and indians, you know, whether north or south america always had contact in the sense with whites long before they saw them because disease traveled ahead and decimated a lot of the populations. So thats a good one. I love empire, the summer moon, the comanche nation is in my district, thats a great biography and it was award winner, one of the best biographies. My own tribe the chickasaws. You know, again theres a lot of them. Biography of my great aunt. Lived almost 100. Did First Entertainment in Roosevelt White house in march of 33. Entertained the king and queen of england in 39, performed all over the world. I have to get a plug in for her. Lots of great books. Angie, one of the great historians of native america. A lot of people will be flaf with her biography of geronimo but most consequential about and still the waters flow and oklahoma was opened up to White Settlement and the process and my family owns a lot of our land still but pretty devastating experience for the tribe that it had been removed and effectively had every treaty broken, you know, land allotted up to individual ownership which in many cases were then alluded from them. Its a really tragic tale. Its not that every bad to indians happened 200 years ago, this is early 20th century in oklahoma. So, you know, still a very its a difficult history. Difficult for americans, i think, sometime to get their hands around because honestly, it doesnt reflect very well on either the American Government or frankly the american, you know, treatment of native americans by the nonnative populationist so its a hard history. Congressman coal, do you ever bring authors in to speak to the republican conference or do you ever recommend books . I recommend books all of the time. As a matter of fact every every christmas i have a dinner for my republican appropriators in my classmates. Im going to lose Three Friends this year. But we always buy present and its mostly always a book. I think most popular one was probably unbroken, Everybody Loves that book. Laura yeah. Yeah. Fabulous book. You know, one year i gave them politics is a great book and i think in particular i gave it in 2012. Its the budget crisis and the budget act of 2011 she told me the story. And read the comments on host you had put b. S guest yeah. Well, i cant remember what the story it may have been aimed at the character as opposed to the account. Because i do think, you know, i dont want to be critical of the book. Ive had, you know, i have a wonderful relationship with john boehner but an up and down relationship well, i should say up, down and up. Were in a good place now. And i have a decent relationship with the president on a personal basis. Ive had the opportunity to interact with him. He was wonderful, frankly, in my hometown in the moore tornadoes in 2013. We couldnt have asked for a more compassionate response. If you look around this office, i always joke im probably the only republican that has five pictures of barack obama in his office because weve done hes good on indian things. Most indian legislation is written tends to be bipartisan. Weve worked well with the white house on everything from the cobell settlement which is the largest settlement in American History for mismanagement against indian trust land, had an important provision to expand tribal sovereignty, tribal law and order a act try and, you know, i could january reservations indian reservations are underresourced in terms of police, and theres all sorts of tricky jurisdictional questions to try and work with the those. So, you know, but having said that, i like both these guys, i mean, some of can i think some of the president s observations about john boehner really based on misunderstanding who john boehner was. You could see in that book theres actually a part where he talks, well, i understand guys like boehner, hes a country club republican. Now, i will grant you that boehner looks like a country club republican, and he plays a lot of golf at country clubs, but hes anything but. This is a guy that grew up in a family of 12, hes the only one that got to college, his dad ran a bar, you know . I think he took longer to get through college because he was doing a business. I mean, hes really hes a much different guy. And his story in some ways to rise to the speakership is every bit as remarkable given his circumstances and where he started in life as the president s is which is a Great American story, you know . So i think sometimes it would have helped if that book had been written before and they could have each read the book. [laughter] i think we might have had a somewhat different ending to the story although, frankly, they maintained a reasonably Good Relationship despite the difficulties of the era. So anyway, back to the main point. Obviously, we give books every year to these thing, and its always interesting to see what your colleagues ones that read them. You dont have a lot of time to read. Unbroken was popular, empire of the summer, they loved that one. Did one recently, boy, im blanking on the authors name. Devotions, a fabulous, fabulous book about two american pilots, one of them the first africanamerican carrier pilot and his wing mate who was annapolis, ivy league educated, i think, but from a very affluent family in connecticut still alive. And the africanamerican shot down over korea and these joint missions where they were, frankly, helping cover the retreat from the river. But how close they were and the white pilot all the pilots are trying to cover this guy who had to crash land his plane. He cant get out of the plane, hes trapped in and eventually dies in the plane, sadly. His name was jesse brown. But the white pilot crash lands his plane to try and get can his friend out of get his friend out of the plane. I tell you, its everything from the letter that the africanamerican pilot writes to his wife the night before hes killed is just and its all reproduced in there, photostat of the handwritten letter. Wonderfully clear penmanship. But stuff like that, you know, thats pretty priceless stuff. Host adam makos. Guest yes yes, yes, thank you for remembering. I should be embarrassed to have forgot. That was one of the best books. Said so many great things about country. At a time we still had jim crow, way precivil rights and yet heres two guys and the crew around them on the Aircraft Carrier that they all became friends, and, you know, its a very moving, very patriotic story. Its like unbroken, it ought to be a movie, and i hope someday it is. Host do you read a book a week . Guest you know, it varies. Obviously, it depends on how long the books are. [laughter] so, yeah, on average, probably one a week, Something Like that. Certainly two or three a month. Host on the airplane back and forth to oklahoma . Guest absolutely, yeah. I do very i do two things on the airplane. If im fortunate enough to get upgraded, i keep a journal, and so thats if im several days behind, thats a good of time to good stretch of time to catch up. But usually reading, yeah. Host is that journal for a future book . Guest i dont know. A good friend of mine whos since deceased was rufus spears, and if you ever listen to Teaching Company which has these wonderful lectures, hes got like five different series in there. He was a classical historian, so theres lives of famous greeks and romance, but at the romans, but at the university of oklahoma he wrote a lecture series called the history of freedom and was a specialist on lord acton, Great British historian who had that same thematic flair in the early 20th century. But rufus and i he was a guy that i used to sit down with, you know, two or three times a year, just liked to know what he thought and would seek advice. Is so to not long after i got to congress, or actually maybe even before i got here but id been elected, we went to have lunch, and i said, hey, just want some advice, what do you think i should be doing up there . And he thought for a minute, and he said write. First of all, tom, not many people do anymore. And so it needs to be done. And frankly, do it in hand and not on the computer because the Electronic Technology can get corrupted in ways. So do that. He said you may not be very important when youre in congress, but youll seem important when youre gone, because there wont be very many of these things around [laughter] and historians will look at it. Ive kept journals when i worked for Frank Keating as his secretary of state, and its pretty cool to have written through the Oklahoma City bombing and have that. Its literally that day or the next day and what he was doing in the crisis and what we were seeing around us as that was unfolding. So ive always kind of, you know, sort of dabbled witfor certain with it for certain periods of time. But when i got here, ive been pretty good at it. There are no breaks, its been pretty continuous. Host is it a real discipline to write every day . Guest no, its kind of fun. I usually do it two the or three times a week. You always keep your scheduling card with you because you can bring, boom, whatever the memory is right back. I dont have a certain time or whatever, but im very, very systematic about keeping it up because, you know, i go back and look at it occasionally. Huh, hadnt thought matter of fact, boehner and i went through a good period and a challenging period. When i first got here, actually, i had known him when he was a freshman congressman. I was the executive director of the nrcc, our campaign committee. He was one of the, quote, gang of seven. We actually came up with the poster over at the nrcc, it was so cool. So were his six guys. They were rebels back then. All the leadership hated these guys. So i knew him very well, and hed been helpful in my campaign. I was on his committee, we were doing well. But i was always very good friends with roy blunt, nowsenator blunt but then our chief whip. And roy was, had been exceptionally good to me. I mean, didnt know me but he not only contributed to my campaign and it was a very competitive race in 2002, he literally sent a busload of volunteers to my district from his district in joplin all the way down to laughton, oklahoma, because we had big events going in both places. I had to cover a big parade in my hometown, and we were stretched, and he was close. I he said, what can i do to help . I said, you can help us, id heard it was called a stomp program. They hit 5,000 doors for him. He made me a whip, i was the first guy in my class to become deputy win in my second term, so we were pretty close. Well, you know, they end up running against one another k and im on team blunt which put me in the doghouse for about two or three years with Speaker Boehner. But one night, and this was before this race had occurred, i was sitting at the Capitol Hill Club with some good friends of mine john klein, whos still here, barrett whos gone and bob bopres whos also gone now. Gone in the sense of not here, theyre still alive. We were sitting, frankly, we were having a drink, and boehner had this big table where he tended to hang out with his kind of group. Were all freshmen, were all on his committee. Bob may not have been, so he sits down for a second. Were chatting away, and he leaves. Well, in my journal that night i write, you know, john boehner came by today, and we were sitting around with these guys and chatting, and, you know, i think hell run for leadership again someday, and he does, ill probably support him. Unless he runs against roy boehner roy blunt, in which case im screwed. Thats exactly what happened. And id totally forgotten this thing. I couldnt believe it. I actually sent it to my friend john klein who is on the other side, very close with Speaker Boehner always throughout his career here. But again, you know, its like most things in life. Speaker boehner actually has a wonderful phrase that if you do the right things for the right reasons, you know, the right thing will happen. And so over the course, you know, our relationship changed pretty dramatically to the point that i was always characterized boehner defender, close boehner ally. Whoevers writing this hadnt been around very long, because we went through a couple difficult years. That happens in politics. It wasnt unfair, you know, we were just on different sides on a lot of things, and its not smart to be on the wrong side of, first, the leader and then the speaker, although to be fair, by the time he was speaker, we had worked through our issues and worked very hard to find common ground. So throughout his speakership, i did have a terrific relationship with him. Host tom cole, how do you get your books . Do you buy them . Do you go to the library . Guest you know, i actually very seldom go to the library. I mean, i dont want to knock libraries, but i like to own book because i am going to mark i wouldnt mark up a library book or somebody loan me a book, Something Like that. I do go to bookstores and just browse like everybody else. I read review, you know . I just see something or hear something. Theres no particularly systematic way. Or i decide i want to, you know, i think i want to read something on fill in the blank, you know . You just go to the internet and pop up, you know, something thats about this, and this you go. There you go. I try, if im going to have an opportunity to meet an author, the other night at the library of congress, you know, we have this president ial series that theyre doing, and i didnt have a chance to meet him, but ive been a big admirer of evan thomas. He wrote a wonderful book on the battle of laity gulf which a friend of mine got me, i got autographed from him. So i wanted to make sure when i knew that was coming i read being nixon which i think is one of the best and, honestfully, most sympathetic honestly, most sympathetic portraits of reu67 ard nixon ive ever read. One of the nice things in this business is you do have those opportunities perhaps more than a lot of other people do. Host so on that night that evan thomas was at the library of congress, how many members guest quite a few. Theyre probably and very bipartisan. Probably at least 50, i would say there, a lot of couples, you know . But it got a big turnout. And, again, you know, its just a terrific book. I was actually sitting next to ken calvert who had, i think he was, like, chairman of california youth for nixon. He knew nixon very well, and he was telling me about the congratulatory call he got from thing in son the night from nixon the night he won his congressional seat in 92. He was talking about a guy who we both know, a senior republican political guy but was a nixon speech writer in california, and he said i was talking to ken earlier today, and ken had been interviewed extensively in the book. Hes all through the book. But i dont think he had read it yet. And so he said ken told me, he said you go listen, and you make sure hes fair. [laughter] and at the end of the even toking, ken concluded, you know, he really was very fair, and effortly he told me hes going to call ken lack and say ken back and say, its okay. Host have you read president ial biographies on most president s . Guest i dont know be id say quite a few. Theyre interesting. My tastes are about the same as anybody else. Well, maybe not. Nixon is a niche taste, i will grant you. Theres a lot onize pen hour. Again, you do get some wonderful privileges when you serve. Susan eisenhower ive met on several occasions, and she was kind enough to invite me and my chief of staff and another dear friend to come out to gettysburg on a monday to get a personal tour of the eisenhower, you know, postpresident ial homestead. And it was wonderful. It was one memory after another because she had lived and went to high school in gettysburg, lived close, and so here is where i met khrushchev in the house. I said, actually, you know, i actually got close to his plane in 59. Shes looking at me, my dad was a Master Sergeant at Mcguire Air Force base. Ill never forget us going out there to look at the plane that had brought Nikita Khrushchev to the united states. He was the most senior Master Sergeant on the base so, you know, there was a viewing area well back to the fence, he could get us pretty close, my brother and i. So it was wonderful. But, yeah, she just, you know, what a treat. And shes, you know, sitting there and listening to stories about her grandfather and her grandmother and what they were like and see the things in the home but have a personal touch put with them. This was this, this was where i used to sit when my grandmother was doing this, that or the other. I mean, it was just fabulous. Host i dont know if you picked up peter carlsons of the washington posts book about kruschevs trip guest no, i havent read that. I am 59, so at the time i was like, 9, 10 years old. I remember it very, very well, following it on television and all those sorts of things. But, you know, shes got again, shes got one story after churchill, montgomery, you know, coming there and walking the battlefield with her grandfather and then fun stuff like heres the barn, heres the horses. Used to run off, and the secret service would try to catch me and collar me or follow me. Again, shes a wonderful, wonderful person. But what a treat. Host the importance of William Shakespeare to our culture, our politics, in your view. Guest oh, pretty profound. Next to the bible, shakespeares probably had more influence on the way we think and the way we talk and on literature than any other person in, certainly, the history of our language. So, you know, and its wonderful, obviously, its great art. Its great plays, but its great history too. I mean, its a reminder, you know, that character and history rial matters really matters, that historys not just a matter of demographic forces. Thats a big part of it, but, you know, individuals count, individuals matter, motivations are complex. You know, i think im no shakespearean scholar, you know, but anybody who tells you he hasnt been the most influential writer certainly again in angloAmerican History, so to speak, and probably maybe, you know, around the world in some ways because he is studied in so many languages, i think, you know, youve got to make him a pretty important guy. Host all right, congressman cole, lets say after congress you decide to go back to teaching, and you have to teach a class, and you have to give your students one book to read. Guest oh, thats the most host i know. Its an obnoxious question, i realize. Guest honestly, it would vary. It would depend on what i was teaching. You know, if i was just giving them a great book and something on American History, i mean, i would probably pick i love stephen ambroses book. He used to say, im told, his Favorite Book to write and you think of all he had a threevolume nixon, he had a twovolume, i think it was twovolume on eisenhower, dday, but he wrote a book thats not as widely known as it should be, and if i remember the title, its crazy horse and custer, the dual lives of two american warriors. I actually found a copy of it when i was going to little bighorn ballotfield out on an ex battlefield out on an expedition and always wanted to see that place which is haunting x theres the book. I bought the book actually, you know, at the park, you know, little place where you get your trinkets and your books and stuff like that. Its a fabulous, fabulous book about these two very different warriors with very different traditions, and if youly on the plains like if you live on the plains like i do, matter of fact, the first custer massacre is in western oklahoma. I worked with frank lucas yeared ago when he was in congress, and i was in secretary of state. It was in private hands, to get it into the National Park system which it is now, thank goodness. But, you know, he describes perfectly everything from weather to, you know, how this vast tableau battlefield, how it shaped regionally, obviously, shaped the sioux and the other great plains tribes that were involved, but the nature of warfare and the nature of weather and how they interacted. It just, you know, its a great book, and you know when youre in it that heres a guy thats been pulled into the character of custer and pulled into the character of, you know, of crazy horse, and, you know, its just and understands. He was so good. But, you know, i could pick out a bunch of other book and tell you but id pick this one too. It wouldnt even necessarily be a history book. Again, colleen mcculloughs, again, wonderful first man of rome series. That book on politics and intrigue in the roman i mean, its probably better than any history written of the time, and theres some wonderful, wonderful histories. Boy, what a tremendous historical novel. And you learn a lot from it. Host congressman tom cole, republican of oklahoma, thanks for joining us on booktv. Guest thank you, enjoyed it. Heres a look at the books that president obama is reading this summer. The list includes two nonfiction titles, barbarian days and h is for hawk, Helen Mcdonalds account of how adopting and raising hawks helped her to grieve the death of her father. President obamas also reading three novels this summer be, coulson whiteheads the underground railroad, Paula Hawkins best selling the girl on the train, and a Science Fiction title. And thats whats on president obamas reading list this summer. On sunday, september 4th, booktv is live from Hillsdale College in michigan with best selling author, radio talk show host and columnist Dennis Prager on in depth. His most recent book examines how the Ten Commandments are still relevant today. He writes about good and evil, racism, the holocaust and other such topics in his book, think a second time. 9 and contemplates the pursuit of happiness in happiness is a serious problem. In his 2013 book still the best hope, mr. Prager lays out why he believes American Values must triumph in an uncertain world. Here he is from this years Los Angeles Times festival of books. Its very simple. If everybody lived by the Ten Commandments, you would not need one army, you would not need policemen, you would not have to put locks on your doors. This is all humans need. Its amazing. Dennis prager taking your calls, emails, tweets and Text Messages live on booktvs in depth from Hillsdale College in michigan sunday, september 4th from noon to 3 p. M. Eastern. Host Colleen Boyle is a publicist at Princeton University press. What is coming out this fall from princeton . Guest so we have some great titles. Our lead title is the curse of cash by kenneth rogoff. He makes the case for phasing out paper money. He argues that the economy would benefit for getting rid of cash, so think large bills, 50 and up, and his reasoning is twofold. He says that, first, people who are involved in crime and corruption choose cash as their payment of choice. And then he goes on to argue that economies would benefit in times of financial crisis by being able to lower Interest Rates to be negative and with a cashless economy, this would be more possible. So he goes on to address the challenges that go along with switching to electronic currency and makes a really great case for it. What else have you got coming out . In terms of science, we have welcome to the universe by Neil Degrasse tyson and neil strauss are. Youll, of course, know Neil Degrasse tyson as director of the Hayden Planetarium in new york city. Michael strauss and richard gott are leading astrophysicists at princeton, so this is your personal tour of the universe. They zoom out from the earth looking at things like stars, galaxies, some more quirky things like worm hoels and time travel worm holes and time travel as a possibility in the universe x. This book goeses deeper than just naming different phenomenon. It describes the Science Behind what scientists know about the universe today. Host okay, one more title. Guest sure. Roger penrose, of course, one of the most influential and important theoretical physicists, and this is basically his take on 21st century physics. So faith in term of our faith and belief in different theories, fashion in terms of what is envogue in the field at the time and fantasy in terms of fantastical ideas like the big bang theory. And so penrose is arguing all three of these ideas have a place in science. They move progress forward and inspire researchers, but theres also the potential for researchers to be led astray, and he talks about this in relation to three different topics, so kwan tam mechanics Quantum Mechanics and string technology. So this is an expert in the field and a real critique of the field. Host colin lean boyle just gave us a preview of three titles that princeton is publishing this fall. Guest thank you. One of the big changes in our, in the way that america operates in the 21st century