Transcripts For CSPAN2 In Depth 20140202

Chance to make that the center of your research, and we cover just about everything. Its just like any other class where you take exams and write papers. Host what do you do with a womens study major . The short answer is law school. Many of my best students gone on to be title ix lawyers. Many go abroad. They work with women Birth Control the issue of violence against women in regions ranging from Northern Africa to bosnia. Many students do development in term of nonprofit. They do programming for everything from planted parenthood to organizations that work with women and girls. I have a couple of students who have gone on to med school and do specialties in womens health. Quite a few have been nursing, and i have a lot of students who are also as athletes involved in furthering women sports. Some are trainers. I have one in the olympics right now. I have another student interning at the winter games who is hoping to do some reporting on the situation of homophobia in russia. Host komen take your classes . Guest you bet. I have 50 guys in my sports class at georgetown. I have guys in all of my classes. Football, basketball, but also guys who are majoring in womens studies. And at George Washington, the chair is a guy. Dan motion berg, the men taking women studies are interesting. My brother took a class when he was an undergrad at maryland. I would say the average guy who takes a womens study is often already focused on the experiences of women because maybe hes the son of a single mom. Then i have a huge percentage of International Students who are really, perhaps, this is the only chance they have to take a class like they before they return to korea or kuwait. I have guys from iranian, saudi arabia began backgrounds, many from cutter. I recently went there and gave a guest lecture. I have a lot of students who are just curious or have heard someone else say im nice. Once they take one of my classes they take more. So they repeat. Once i got them, i got them. They know i love them. Host what was that experience like at cutter . Distressing in at lough ways. I felt like a third sex. I was not obligated to dress in a full head cover, body cover gown. I was not expected to veil. I was start told find a large percentage of the women in the country cover their faces. Many are not citizens. A lot of residents are saudi arabia or international. Many women were not visible, and im used to making eye contact. You didnt see womens faces so you didnt see their mouths moving. The sense of their being silenced was magnified. Many is triable, its certainly not mandated in the koran. I was around people in women in black who were very much covered, and there was me in a western suit. So it was an eyeopening experience. But i also found the opportunity to interact with women from all over the arab world was what i wanted to do. Thats why i was there. I moderated a panel on discrimination in sports, which ended up being very much about racial and ethnic discrimination and not furthering opportunities for women and girls. I think theres a lot of work to be done, but thats what i do. Host in your most recent book womens history for beginners. You open it by saying read through a basic history book. Say a state approved u. S. History textbook intended for middle school classrooms, and youre left with the impression that all of Human History was achieved by one sex. Guest yeah. Well, and unfortunately that continues. The biggest challenge for me, lets say as an american educator, is that womens history and womens studies frighten people because the assumption is all womens history are about the body; therefore, all womens history will be somehow about sex and Birth Control; therefore, its not appropriate for a middle school or elementary school. And the education word, pta and the people who approve textbooks thats controversial. My argument is theres plenty of womens history that is ageappropriate that encourages girls to consider the possibility they can run for office or they look at where women have come from in term of being closed out of political lives and schools and juries. Its easy to look at female achievers in history and have it be not controversial and not sexual. But we just dont do that. We dont do the research on the astronomer, maria rachael, or have lessons that encowrnlgt girls to think beyond the imagery of the woman in the private sphere. I think as a person who reads ap u. S. History leader, im an exam leader for the college board, putting womens history in to something that an honor student should know is gradually becoming a scuffle main streaming of womens history. Now you have to know some for the ap exam. Woo hoo its a process, but its also still possible to have textbooks that dont reflect the range of what women have done, or the focus will be women and minorities. And you have white women and black men. Guess who gets left out . It would be africanamerican american. Thats why i assist thats the cover of my book be a majority women of color. They have been written out of the american curriculum. Host a little bit more from womens history for beginners. Women and men have played different roles. The very differences tell a great deal about power, citizenship, and democratic ideals. We may acknowledge that our foremothers held different but equally important functions in Human History. Still, most of what is described in history is, indeed, his story. The lives and writings of great men. When i was in graduate school, the first thing we read what is history his argument is even if you rely on documents, they only tell you what the author of the document wanted you to know. But the fact is, we look at the constitution, the mag car that magna carta. Women were usually ill literate. They didnt have access to education, or the leisure time or the studio space. They didnt keep journals as im privileged to do. We only have stories and narrative which is we have historically put down as old wives tales, we tend to think what goes on in the womens sphere had, which is the private sphere, does not count as history. Its making beds and raising kids, thats important, but history has made somehow in the public sphere of man. And the fact of the matter is, most lived in the private sphere. From your book revenge of the womens studies. Professor, you write write oppression of women is a universal norm. Where there is a male standard, women become a special interest group. Every country has policies to protect womens rights. But they are not enforced because women are not the enforcers . Thats correct. Biggest example would be the taliban continuing to wield influence in regions like afghanistan, pakistan, where technically girls have the right to go to school, but theyre threatened and in the case of mala even wounded in their efforts to further education. Although most countries would say, yes, we permit schooling for girls, their safety in that process is not guaranteed, and the backlash against educate girls is really an issue in more places than we care to examine. That is one example that is painful. Host in your book womens history for beginners. Why didnt you use the word guest well, you know. I love that and i love the alternate spellings. I certainly include linguistic section in my classes. I come out the women with the why tradition. I wanted to avoid anything that would sort of pigeon hole me as an oldschool feminist who was going to insist on altering language. I wanted this to be as acceptable as possible, i love the for beginners. Series it offers an available introduction to subject matter that everybody is curious about, but maybe is intimidated by. It use it often in usual conversation. I think its a reminder how we dont expect to have women at the center, and on the first day of my classes, ill explain, you dont have to have a specific political viewpoint the to get an a. That would be wrong. You to put women at the center what were studying. That doesnt mean we hate men. Guest you talked about old school feminists. What do you mean by that . Guest i mean that very much i was influenced myself by the women who shaped 70s feminist, radical feminism which supported the idea that there should be womenonly spaces where women can gathering. The Cultural Movement of womens bookstores, independent presses, Recording Companies like oliva. All of that shaped me. It was all in place by the time i was 16 and 17. I came in to a cultural feminism very much of which was shaped by lesbian activists, and my opportunity to dod advanced work in womens history. I owe a debt to everyone who came before me. In graduate school, the concern expressed was how to make womens history credible and academically coherent. When so much of the Womens Movement had been political grassroots activism. So how do you roll that over in to a field of study, and my position is you have to look at the grassroots heritage. You cannot simply do theory. You cannot do theory in language is going to sound so difficult in are some ofsome of my best friends. However, i tend to focus on social history, and part of what i mean when i say im old school. I think so you to look at the activism of everyday people and not simply remain in the ivory tower. Thats because i also came out of a family which was involved in the Peace Movement. Its natural for me to go from participating in that to participating in feminism to participating in the lgbt movement. Its been one, long beautiful arc of justice. And explaining the history is how we get from a to b in all of those movements is what i do. A lot of students dont know when women got to vote. Well start there. Well start earlier, what is the 13th amendment . 14, 15, 18, and 19 are very important, also. But if you dont know the history of enslaved women and women who owned women, youll never understand why we dont have a unified Womens Movement now. Host can you be a conservative in a womens study major . Guest sure. Absolutely. That has changed. I used to have the assumption that people elected a womens study major out of, you know, a certain feminist standpoint, what is interesting now is as women advance, they certainly do so because of the feminist who came before them. But women now are in a position where they can distance themselves from earlier issues, and be a leader as they define. It is challenging, because i sometimes have students be hostile to the women who went before them who enabled them to have the opportunities they do now. I also have students who will be a very engaged in the classroom, but they lie about it to their friends and associates. At one college where i taught, the women in my class were hiding in the bathroom reading a book how women got vote because their or so roarty said it was giving the wrong message about the house to have my textbook on the coffee table when young men came to call. Im like, really . Is it high to how does that intimidate your future husband doesnt want you to vote . Okay. That was an unusual place. But my position is everyone is welcome. You everyone is a walking narrative text you know what has happened to you that formed your viewpoint. But lets look technically at what the law limited women to in the past, where you truly could not attend a university. You could not go to med school. You could not play sports. You could not control your own money. You could not own property. You werent allowed to train guide dogs. Thats a good one. There were all kinds of things girls could not do, and when i was a little kid as a fairly brain any little girl, on the one hand, was told, you can do this, this, skip a grade, do whatever you want. To get the messages actually know women arent allowed here and there. It was a big cognitive dissonance blast in my developing mind. I knew girls could do more. I was in classes with gifted girls, and i was surprised they werent more outraged. I was outraged in a way that makes a person bitter, angry, et. Cetera, whatever the wrong stereo type of a feminist is. Gosh, im going to do what i intend to do, and it is illogical to hold back half the nation. We need to compete on the global stage. Doesnt america want the brainy girls in the drivers seat . We want to keep up with other nations in math, science, physics, what have you . Guest how do you define feminism today . Are we in a post feminism era . Guest we are not in a post feminist era. Im concerned about the quote, war on women, we are rolling back the access to reproductive right. Theres no end to the violence against women. We have not stopped shaming girls about their body. We have so much sex women in the media. Which implies you have to have a certain shape to be loved or popular. The problem in term of refining feminism is it is true what unifies a lot of women globally is what done to women. I dont want to identify feminism about victim hollywood. Thats a important critique. Empowered feminism says that women should be equal in their rights and opportunities period. Where we dont see that we want to push forward to make that possible. End of statement. But, no, there is so many work to do. And globally the statistics are frightening in term of womens lack of access, again, to everything from education to health and information about their options. Host do you think that sexism plays any role in Hillary Clintons president ial chance . Guest absolutely. I use the misrepresentation in my classroom. One of my students is in it. The film looks at media bias in terms of how women are observed as they pursue a political candidacy. Inevitably, they are closed, the tone of their voice, their hair all that have is addressed. Hillarys been just absolutely maligned by different commentary with respect to men dont want a women telling them what to do, they dont like the sound of her voice, she represents sort of hectoring stance. Thats very much based on the dilemma should women tell men what to do in the marc level. Men didnt want women making policy decisions because they felt that the influence of the mother figure should stay in the home. So we dont want women who are a childbearing age running. We have insane thought that you should be in the Ohio Valley Office if you might have your period. If youre post men menopausal theres a punch of stereotypes. You are an older mother figure shaming men. I see it in lots of campaigns. Watching the news is important. Yes, its painful. And i think it is in part because there is a long tradition where by men define their independent by leaving home and no longer having to go what mommy says. The aspect is you can have mommy running the country, of course, because we also ask women to be multitaskers and to make all the decisions that keep private life in order. Applying those skills in public life, theres a lot of concern about what it means. Would it mean that a women would miss work because of child care . Usually when women are candidates they ask how can you do this and raise kids . Im familiar with all of those issues, but for each semester students are encountering, for the first time, how we analyze that. Why does keep happening . When women are High Achievers why do we find the old ideas . And its its sad for me to see students alarmed and feeling pain that their mothers feminism did not eliminate the issues. Host who are some of your personal heros in the womens Rights Movement . Guest oh my gosh. What a long list. My personal heroes would definitely include all the women who started womens bookstores. The women who started womens Music Festivals. The women who made title ix possible. Pat patsy mink, we bernice. Judy, lillian who created the field of Academic Studies and lesbian history. My friend and mentor tony armstrong, junior who started a magazine called hot wire. To look at women in rock and the women in the Music Festival in the 70. Obviously a people who have done a lot of labor around womens reproductive rights. The olympics champions who broke barriers making it possible for women to finally do ski jump or ice hockey or run a marathon. Everybody who started the wnba, all the folks who were the first to be in a class at an ivy league school, or who broke the gender barrier in the service academies. Its a giant range. I know, im leaving out people, and later on i feel bad. People who pushed entry to closed occupations. Host this is the first time in the olympics that with women are doing the ski jump . Guest they are afraid it will hurt them. Why dont we worry about the guys. This is an interesting question. Why do we allow women to be injured and we forbid women . Theres a lot of drama around women as child barers, nonetheless, we do allow women to get hurt all the time. If were really concerned about womens physical safety, then everyone should be on the front line of dealing with rape and violence against women. Instead we hear only, you know, an olympics occasion. Or women who wants to play, you know, football or rugby. Im a faculty adviser to womens rugby. So those ironies are intriguing. But i can certainly say i gave a talk to my nieces girl scout troop they wanted to know is there still bias against girls . She was in a ski resort town. All i had to do was point out the window and you see the women skiing down the mountain . They cant do ski yomp in jump in the olympics. They were appalled. Im delighted it changed. In her lifetime the reversal on the ban on womens ski jump. Host goomp and good afternoon and welcome to indepth program. Its the Monthly Program with one author and his or her body of work. This month, professor and author Bonnie Morris. Shes the author of six nonfiction books along with poetry books. Giving in 1997 with the ask the the High School Scene in the fifties. It came out in 1999. Girl her memoir. Revenge of the womens study prover. 2009. Her most recent book came out last year, womens history for beginners. Is there a danger in womens groups . Womens bookstores, womens studies . Kind of a get ghettoization. Guest separate culture has come to an end. We have integrated a lot of what used to be separate in to main stream bookstores. Of course, now theyre all going out of business, too. Some of what would be a natural change, as you bring womens work in to the main stream is being effected by technological changes. So that the internet and other sites allow women to find support groups and communities where before they had to go to a physical sight. The issue of ghettoization is intriguing to me. They say why do we need a womens Study Program. Shouldnt we have a mens Study Programs. Thats the other classes. Thats a joke. But i think its still important for women to have places together in groups to Exchange Information and to have a sense what its like to be the majority, even if temporarily. Many of my students, lets say, who are take engineering are still the only women in a class. They dont know what its like to be in a classroom that is majority female. Its a very good experience. In contrast i have a lot of students who come out a singlesex private high school. Theyre very familiar with female leadership and women being the majority. Theyre not selfconscious about being athletes and leaders. One of the things that is very moving, to me, in the u. S. As we have forced a kind of integrated coed culture, we have lost some traditional womens spaces that other countries with stricter customs do have. For instance, when i taught on semester on sea and took students we went to a traditional womens bathhouse in turkey and south korea. These are Community Spaces where women gathering gather, traditionally, they didnt have a bathroom. They would Exchange News and gossip and sing and scrub each others back. A welcoming and intimate culture. I was happy to experience Something Like that. My womens study class that went with me, the young women were terrified. They were uncomfortable getting undressed and participating with local women. Every one of them said the same thing. Im too fat. I cant do it. Im too fat. I hate my body. That american aspect of being unable to participate in traditional womens culture because you have a western bias selfhating view of your body. Wow. Everyone on the ship wrote their paper about that. What does that say . Yes, were advanced in term of some womens rights, but we expect women now to have it all the ideally wife and mother, but a career woman, athlete, and look perfect. No one can do all of that. And trying to control some elements of those selfscrutiny for perfection. My collegeaged students, as opposed to my older friends, very much feel the burden of trying to look perfect and it takes a toll on your focus and your attention. You should be reading a book not worrying about your body all day. You can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, and never let him forget hes a man. Host the commercial of mid adolescence. Exactly. Host if you would like to participate in our conversation this afternoon with Bonnie Morris. Were going put the phone lines on the screen. booktv is our twitter handle. You ask send an email at booktv at cspan. Org or leave a comment on facebook. Com booktv. Bonnie morris, where did you grow up . Guest i was born on mothers day in los angeles. I lived in west l. A. Until from 61 to 71. Until i was 10. A great time to live through the peace marching 60s. I had Peace Movement parents with a big paper sign in the front window. Every christmas, and i went to a very International Elementary school that was sort of the school for kids whose parents were married grad students at ucla. So a lot of people who are on citizenships from all over the world and various times i was one of a handful of, you know, americanborn kids in my classroom. I thought it was normal that everybody came from japan and india and the philippines and. When i was 10 we moved to North Carolina. What a wakeup call. I was in durham, North Carolina. Host why did you move . Guest my dad left his job at the aircraft, he was asked to design an antiaircraft missile. He didnt want to be an arms designer. He was very much against the war, and he went back to grad school and he took a position with the Environmental Protection agency. So the next thing i knew, we were in North Carolina in the early 70 when the state had barely integrated, and after a year of a pretty Abusive Local public school, my brother and i enrolled at carolina friends school, which was the first integrated school in the state. A private Quaker School where we were very fortunate to get a wonderful education with really dynamic and caring progressive educators. I ended up graduating from high school there, and i owe everything to carolina friends school. Very much. And my parents. Host where did you go to college . Guest American University in d. C. Im the first au grad to have graduated with the womens studies minor. It was established the year i was a senior. I did all the credits in one year, and i was the jewish history major as an undergrad. I spent a year in israel. I was in interested in looking at womens community, obviously. When i went to grad school, i looked at women in the Ultra Orthodox Jewish community. The community and i looked at one particular community in brooklyn. I was interested in, at that time, examining jewish fundamentalism. Everyone was looking at christian fundamentalism. What is going on over here. I was hard i are raised in an orthodox way in any definition. It was as fascinating, to me, to see what it would be like to live as a traditional jewish woman but in the feminist time of our lives. I looked how the one in the community had taken some of the language of american feminism and applied it to their lives. I finished my doctorate at the upstate new york a public ivy. I had a really great education. Host and from the book, you write, no group of immigrant women committed to reproducing a spiritual vision of womanhood should be marginalize by the feminist historians. Instead the feminist historian has an obligation to acknowledge diverse content of ethnic and gender identities. Guest yeah. My friends in grad school, you know, were looking at women in history who were, you know, leaders for womens rights or who radical revolutionaries, and a lot of the feedback i had was you, why would you pick this group, you know, an extremely rightwing women who live in a community where women are not permitted to participate in the rituals men do. My argument is you have to look at the whole apple. Look at the whole apple of womens communities globally. Instead of spending at lough time saying why would any women live like this. You ask what do the women do with their permitted agency . What do they do within their permitted sphere . And its interesting. I found that many women were the breadwinners, the men were scholarly and the women had jobs. The girls were very empowered to the point of being fresh and rude. There was no selfest teem problem there. I looked at that community in part because it could have been me. It could have been me. My ancestors fled poland and russia. It scrolled been me, if there had not been the tragedy of the holocaust, you know, my roots could have remained in Eastern Europe. But i would not have been able to be a scholar because im a girl. The whole gentle thing, i wanted to know what if you are a brain any girl in the society where the men get to be authorities and Brilliant Minds and the women are expected to be informed but domestic. I went right to the women themselves, and in fact, they were very outspoken, wellpublished and touring, frankly, with their own agenda. This is what i call the syndrome. Women who travel around the world telling women their job is to stay in the home. What interests me in the movement of conservativism women. You have multiple figure head as they they live i do. The content is different. When you have women traveling around the world telling other women their places to remain uneducate, that is hypocrisy. Im interested in that. Host talking about roger and mira. Your parent. Your mother is jewish. You describe your father as a surfer. Host guest yeah. Host you write we dressed up like our parent. We went to formal dances. We had fundraisers like our parents. Everything we did was rehearsal for what we were going to do later. Get married to someone of the right ethnic and social background. No other possibilities were discussed. Guest i dont know if thats my mother or father speaking. I interviewed my parent. I believe their marriage is a terrific story. After a lifetime of listening it their stories to turn on my tape recorders. Probably during the year when i was a visiting professor at harvard. I started interviewing my parents. They broke all kinds of social taboos by intermarrying in their day. That the time they went to a high school that had segregated clubs. There were jewish clubs and jentil clubs. And jack camp was in the christian club. My father pledged a jewish club. He joined a jewish gang, the cardinals, he was the token. My parents thought the whole business of ridiculous, and they actively worked if they didnt dismantle it all together, they certainly took a standby challenging some of the norms. And then having this radical wedding at the time when you werent supposed to marry outside your group, and their example put me on the path of, you know, where i am now that everybody should be able to get married and you, you know, choose your own partner. They were very much the people who made me what i am in terms of a concern about social justice and as much as we were, you know, unusual family in term of involvement in various progressive causes, they were extremely responsible with, you know, bedtime. The orthodontist and everything. I think everyones image of a progressive family is a chaotic home. I did not get sent to hebrew school, i honored think mother and father. I have written a great deal about my parents. Host where they still alive . Guest my mother is. She is probably watching. My father passed away almost four years ago. We miss him very much. He was an important figure. Hes the guy locally in d. C. Who built the Volleyball Court at the lincoln memorial. His contribution was to create a free, acceptable reck creation space for all citizen in the District Of Columbia and there are double tournaments going on on the courts right now thanks to his vision. Host you write by the early 1970 the Womens Movement in the u. S. Had grown enormously. Making gangs in some area of legal and economic change but still divided. Along the lines of race, class, sexuality. Members of political groups such as now faced off over the question of lesbian disability and over the question of whether to condemn male Super Structures such as organized religion and the military or demand womens integration in to those existing halls of power. Movement leader betty declared that lesbian rights were a lavender herring. Guest okay. Well, yes. I went from describing women in one sort of womenonly space to the other end of the spectrum. Radical womens Music Festival. This is the link of my work. Im interested in womens communities on all ends of the spectrum. A history of womens music and acceptable culture which were a dynamic part of the 70, 80s, and 90s. I wrote it, because i was participating by then in womens Music Festival not being described anywhere else in main stream jock journalism. It gave us the indigo girls and Tracy Chatman and many other performers who are not household names, and i wanted to document something that i felt was a very important aspect of my culture. I was in graduate school doing womens history but nowhere being introdoesed to the history lesbians. I was out and proud at age of 18. I had the impression even in an excellent ph. D. Program in women history there were no narrative or history of lesbian groups worthy by the time i finished my ph. D. Programs students a few years younger than me were looking at different womens community. I went back to this past spring after 30 years and gave a talk. I said, you know, we lived up many students were doing doctoral work on the campus and the rest of our time we were involved in a lesbian bar. We knew our lives mattered. We werent being made to feel they were worth writing about. I had a keenly that i had an almost moral obligation describe what i was participating in. Which was women creating spaces for each other when they had limited right and opportunities. One very important subculture was womens Music Festivals where artists were make the music that enabled women to see their partnerships as valid and decent and loving. And nobody else was feeding that. That validation came from artists including comedians and dramaists. And festival culture impressed me. Women did all the jobs. If you wanted to have a space for performances that nobody else could stage, you needed people to run a stage. Techies, lightening designers, sound engineers, and these are some of my favorite people. The techy women who enabled the sound to reach an audience. So i would be sitting in the audience doing multiple documenting. Im listening to my friends performing on stage. Im taking notes and tape recording speeches being made and taking photographs. [laughter] and i have one of the best archives of womens music in america today. Its all in my front room in a giant pink dresser. Didnt plan on it being pink. Something i inherited from my parents basement. My mother kept dance costumes in a long time. Host gwen tweets inspect i dont hear much about the equal rights amendment. What would the ratification for the u. S. In the done for women . Guest what a great question. I went door to door for era as an 18yearold. Equality of rights under the law should not be denied or abridged by the united united or any state on account of sex. Thats all it says. That equality of rights was a misunderstanding by so many people who feared it would mean mandating unisex bedrooms, which we have, by the way. Going to door to door in affluent Montgomery County i knock on the door of senators and congressmen. I would hear from everyone we cant have the era. It would mean everyone using the same bathroom, mandatory gay marriage, all about abortion. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Its about equality of rights. I believe if it passed, we would have found it was much easier to track women in to opportunities that remain closed for quite awhile. We had to piecemeal, undo a lot of sexist legislation. But the dealing that equality was that controversial was so strong that in 1979, when i was going door to door. I had people threaten me, stick their dogs on me. You know, quote from scriptture, tell me i was going to burn in hell. Order me off the lawn in a scary way. It was quite an education. And i was right out of high school. I believe that many women devoted so much of their energy and their lives to getting the era passed. Beginning with al las paul who introdoesed introdoesed it in 1923. We forget it consumed so much energy of the women in the 70s up to 82. The fact we never got three fifths of the state to ratify the equal right. Thats chilling. I know, a lot of women did everything from fasting to putting all of their savings in to the hope that we really would amend equality for women in this nation. Host lets take some calls for Bonnie Morris. We begin with paul in morristown, new jersey. You are on booktv. Caller thank you. Professor morris. Guest hi kristin in august or september or 2008 when the nation was getting to know sarah palin, did you regard the governor as a powerful symbol of a success of feminism or perhaps even as icon in the fact she built her political career pretty much on her own. [inaudible] and, you know, to the wife of a powerful man. Host if i may, quickly. How do you feel about sarah palin . Are you a supporter of hers . Caller oh, yeah. One of the original supporters of hers. I thought she cleaned up the corruption in alaska. She, you know, put, you know, a lot of people i like some of the crusaders for against corruption. Host thank you, sir. Lets get an answer. Guest i thought that, you know, obviously in many ways, she was elected or selected to be an important symbol for not just a woman politician who had already been, you know, empowered as a governor. Her representation as a person who was a family woman who talked very adamantly about her kids and who presented a certain kind of main stream i think it was intended as an opposition to the qualities that people feared about Hillary Clinton or other feminists candidates. I think any woman who wants to run should run. When a woman is empowered to make policy and is not necessarily supportive of womens reproductive rights, i get anxious. I was not a supporter of palin. Obviously at the time, the big question around the country was if you support womens rights why wouldnt you support any woman running . Because by the time youre voting, i think theres a difference between a female candidate and a feminist candidate. I remain a staunch feminist. Host if you cant get through on the phoneline. You email booktv cspan. Org. You can make a comment on twitter booktv or make a comment on facebook. Com cspan. Cc from portland, oregon. Hi . Caller hi. Im interested in your thoughts about black feminism. Im concerned about the turn of womens history that oftentimes, for me, is con con con at a times white women of a certain class. Often time i dont hear about the experience of women of color, but particularly africanamerican women. Within the context [inaudible] when you say the word womens history it involves all women. It should. In practice, i think it really talks about experience of white women and the concerns theyve had in dealing with white men. Host i apologize, i want to ask her. Do you consider yourself a feminist . Caller i just consider myself someone that is interested in equal rights for all women. But particularly women that are marginalized. So i dont know i dont mind the term feminism, but in only the issue of equality that would make a feminist. I dont mind the term. Im concerned about the way in which i hearing the way womens history is being equal for all women, when people who subscribe to feminism or women talk about womens history dont rarely talk about women of color and their particular issues. And just assume that those issues will be taken care of as we take care of issues that host i apologize. Guest thats a great question. You are absolutely right. This is the biggest concern in my teaching. My if you took one of my classes, i hope you would find that i absolutely represent the history of africanamerican women, we look at the position of women of color in feminism. How has feminism made mistakes . What are the critical turning points where white nists have the opportunity not to discriminate and unfortunately alienated black women in america. Theres a very important book in black womens study with the title all the women are white. All the blacks are men, some of us are brave black womens studies. Its a textbook issued called still brave inspect those writes and other books i assign. One of the things i look at where we see the invisibility of black women in history. Its around the 15th amendment. Which gave black men the right to vote. They went to the black leader Frederick Douglass and said we supported you. Will you support us . What is going to happen with women getting to vote . He said to you . The vote is desirable, to us it is necessary. Okay. You who is missing in that statement . White women, black men. They its one example of a turning point. We also have women who were black sufferrists being asked not to march in the famous suffrageist parade that alice paul read. A number of white were hoping to get southern male senators to support it. These are all examples of what alienated folks from the each other in the movement. The fact that white women were abusive slave owners. Add that and stir. If you look at the current film 12 years a slave. You see examples of women doing injustice to other women. So, yes, it is the agenda of every decent womens Study Program in the country to make sure that it is not just white feminism that is being instructed. I really appreciate your call. You can count on me. Host you are a professor. Because in your book womens history for beginners. You makes take a quiz. Guest i do. Host we might have some of our viewers take the quiz as well. In fact, question number 12 in your quiz. In what year were the first African Women brought to colonial america as slaves . Im going to say 1700. Guest its a little earlier than that. 1619, and that is the beginning of the scenario in this country where we literally control womens bodies both as property and sexually. I think, again, the film 12 years a slave is reintroducing people to what the history looks like. The biggest i did dilemma i have, as a history professor im exposed in the media to criticism from different conservative religious groups that call on family values. Traditional family values are supposed to be somehow an opposition to what feminists stand for. Let look at what real traditional values are in the united for Something Like, you know, 244 years of legalized slavery, we had people owning womens bodies, selling their children, slave owners had every right under the law to impregnate slaves. We had no rape laws protecting those women. We violated the mother child bond in every way by separating mother and baby for profit. Many women were forced to have as many children as possible to pay off their owners debt. Thats a tradition. We dont want to look at. It only began to change much later in american history. So as much as womens history is painful, sometimes i tell my students, oh, here is a day with the subject matter is so excruciating i wish i taught the history of baking. But nonetheless, we have to know. Host in your book womens history for beginners you write throughout most of history a woman was her body. A dangerous equation. Guest yes. What was regulated about what we could and couldnt do was based on the modesty of her appearing in public. What was considered dangerous for her because of her childbearing capacity. There were a lot of misinformed doctors in the 19th i century that women lost energy every month and shouldnt do sports or study. They thought that learning latin and greek would direct blood away from the womb and in to the brain and make women infertile. Back to ccs point and the whole range of issues. We have one view in the 19th century that women should be delicate and pure and stay away from dangerous work. Or that too much strain would hurt your womb. Then we have enslaved women doing difficult work and not only did it not damage their fertility. Their fertility is being exploited. What is the real . Riewt truth. Women able to do what we need them. Thats what i mean by the womens body is host paul calling from missouri. Caller yes. Host you would like to take a quiz on womens history . [laughter] question 41 from womens history for beginners. Bonnie morris asks, when were women first admitted to west point and the Naval Academy . Caller i would say in 1996. Host lets get the answer. Guest actually 1976. They were brought in through a bill signed by president ford, and women who were the first class at west point very small group, were really not able to learn from each other. They were broken up and scattered to different units. In part to sort of showcase, yes, we have a woman in each unit. But they had a very difficult row to hoe. They were the subject of a Media Attention. It made the other men angry they were running the same five miles and the guys werent getting cameras. You know, had the women had a hard time proving they were one of the guys. Because they were the subject of special interest. But yet we look at that in my women in war class. Host paul, go ahead with your question or comment. Caller quickly. Our son is a graduate of west point. Our daughter went one year and decided to be a pharmacist instead. [laughter] ive been a pharmacist for 40 years. When i started out, bonnie, i had 50 women in my graduating class and now there are 85 women in the graduating class. I live in a family of five brothers and four sisters. So my perspective is this, i think we must make certain that women and others now in a minority of government that these people be qualified and able to stand on their own feet and not pushed to leadership role of repair. My main thing is they must be prepared. We know what that is. Data thats is a problem we have in the government and suffering miserably for it. Thank you. Host thank you very much. Host we have an email from so fee in l. A. I would like to ask for bonnies perspective on female characters in film, and if she can point to a recent role that illustrates women positively. Guest oh my goodness. What a terrific question. Thank you very much. I talk about what it was like to grow up in the 70 with an increasing range of good female roles and the movies my parents took me to that made a deep impression on me. Im a fan of the film, a league of their own. I was able to meet Penny Marshall when she received an award here in d. C. One of the few films that shows the true history of womens sports and the allamerican Girls Baseball League is my favorite topic. Peppy Penny Marshall made to the point she was not wellfunded to make a film about women in sports. She had to cast her brother, and her daughter, and so we still have a really regrettable lack of women behind the camera, and its startling to my students, who see hollywood as very liberal, that in fact its one of the most job segregated areas in our country. The number of women directors and the women who do sound and lighting is regretably very small. I think we can do much better. I remember when Barbara Streisand appeared in the mirror has two faces. She was vilified for being difficult and pushy and other awesomism for being a strong jewish woman. But while she was being reviewed as a director at the washington post, i was appearing in a movie at the same time. I was an extra in contact filmed here in washington. So it was on the set of a mainstream hollywood film while thinking about what is the future of women in film . I was able to see this was 1997 everybody working on the movie was a guy. A makeup woman, just as you see in cartoons, and somebody who brought in the catering snacks, and everybody else was male. Very different than my experience working at womens Music Festivals where everybody doing the plumbing, the sound tower, is a woman. So not only was i startled how Mass Christian the the whole thing was impressive, and meanwhile these guys were saying, get out of the way, sweetheart, or move, honey, and theyre moving cables around. And ironically i was playing a naval lieutenant so i was in a uniform. Lots of thoughtprovoking material, and i took notes in my journal while sitting in the chair. So have a good accounting what it was like to appear in a film while looking at how media treats women directors and all of the thank you. Host dick in reno, nevada, hearings another question from the quiz before you can ask your question. Okay. Host in what year did american women win the vote and can you name the amendment . Caller 1919, and its forget the name of the amendment. Is that close . Guest thats pretty good. It 1920, the 19th amendment. And but thank you. The 18th for the record is prohibition. Thats important because a lot of people were afraid to give women the vote, fearing women would ban alcohol. Actually prohibition passes before women had the vote. Thats a piece of trivia. Host dick, go ahead. Caller this is just a wonderful subject today, and i was been in the oh hos so i saw this women coming into leadership getting into Higher Education when i was in college in the 60s and my account class there was one woman, and that same college today its 60 women. So, these whole things are moving in a wonderful direction. The question i have, bonnie, globally, what percentage of Higher Education enrollment today are women versus men . Guest thats a great quit. Dont have the answer globally. In the United States, women are the majority on college campuses, and the point you bring up about the shift in accounting and the previous caller, about the shift in pharmacy, this is very important. Theser great questions. No one ever planned for women to be enrolled in colleges in equal numbers, and the fact that women have now surpassed men in enrollment, this is not was not in anyones plan and its alarming to some people because so much funding has been set aside for, say, womens sports, that was never planned on. When title ix was passed that said Higher Education that receives federal dollars may not discriminate on the basis of sex, women were a very small percentage of college enrollment, so didnt seem as though a whole lot of money would have to be shifted to womens sports or that women would be as large a presence in Higher Education as they are. Now the fear is that education is being feminized because theres so many women, and there have been changes necessary because women do attend College Classes in larger numbers and so on. Its a huge contrast for women in afghanistan, pakistan, globally a challenge for a lot of girls, but, say, throughout africa, not being able to afford school fees, not having shoes, not having clothing, not having sanitary products, things we dont like to think about but that prevent 12yearold from going to class. What i found is that the more that women take courses which we once considered Mass Christian, the more that field starts to be seen as something women do, like pharmacy, and the fact we have women in med school, law school, graduate school, they were trying to keep women out of the evey league for years, and the harvard and yales, for instance, had a quota for every two women admitted, three men had to be admitted on campus. So, women had to be much better in terms of their test scores and so forth. When i look at the campuses where i teach, there is a majority of women, but that doesnt mean that the women are going to take womens studies or have a lot of female professors. It means the undergraduate enrollment is majority female. So you can still have a female environment but not learn womens history or have female role models. How about that . Host neil tweets in, how do you see marriage continuing as an institution if women are going to equal or surpass men in society . Guest okay. Well, first of all, ill take this opportunity to say on national tv that, of course, im an advocate for gay marriage, and again, as the daughter of an intermarriage i have seen the possibility of lasting marriage where people predicted failure because of difference. I think that marriage can only be strengthened by the equality of the participants. I believe that what is challenging in our time is that much of the law around marriage and households is based on the idea of there being a head of household and a subordinate. So the fact we legalized both parties in terms of their access to controlling money or making decisions, that is hard to adapt. We come from a position where the woman everything she brought to the marriage became he husband resident property. Back to ancient greek and roman law. A woman was child bride, treat as a child, and all of her concerns are taken care of by the husband because he was much older and more educated. She never became an adult. She was perpetual minor in the eyes of the law. Never participated in politics or the economy. And that ended up all the way through history, affecting english law and colonial law and early american law and then law, law, law, right up until world war ii. Technically, the decisionses have been made by the husband and women could not operate separately. Moreover, married woman is distinguished from an unmarried woman by our forms of address, miss and mrs. Ms. Was a huge big deal. Sort of effort to mask what is a womans marital status. We mask a mans. A lot of people dont know that ms. Was adapted in spanish, for sena. Thats a wonderful piece of trivia from mexican feminism. Host is that guest i dont know. But i was aware of these issues really early. Again, much detail. We had a subscription to ms. , and when it began publication, i read it in our library, and then we had women residents studies classes from 72 on so we introduced womens studies to middle school and tenyearolds were taking it. And i participated in a class there based very much on the articles ive read in ms. Magazine that interested me, and then i had my own subscription as a gift on my 14th birthday, and that covered the range of the same questions that the caller is interested in. The changing nature of marriage, how the law reflected women as an independent agent, and any relationship and so on. Host rod is calling from florida. Here is your quiz when were women first allowed to participate in the Olympic Games . Caller um, 1960s. Guest well, actually the 1920s. Either 22 or 28. This was a big part of the problem whereby we had the modern olympics introduced in 1896, but the gentleman who was in charge for many years did not support women going to the games. He felt that women in sports were unappealing and it was improper. There was actually a womens olympics held in france. When women were permitted into the olympics there was a very famous event where they ran a race and critics were frightened by the illinois of women being tired and the image of women being tired and lying down on the track, and then women were banned from doing distance running until the 1970s. And women were banned from the Boston Marathon until Katherine Switzer ran nonetheless, and these changes have all happened quite recently. But, yes, women were at the olympics in the 20s. Host go ahead with your question. Caller i failed miserably on the quiz so im not sure whether im qualified to ask the question, but if you permit me guest please. Caller i am writing a book on successful indianamerican woman, and so my question to professor is that are you have you done any study or research on specifically on the indianamerican woman . Guest you bet. And hello to my childhood friend and various others. The neighborhood i lived in, in l. A. In the 60s, had many families from india. I was very aware of the lives of indian women in first and second grade i had quite a few friends who were from india, learned to say indian words, and i was interested in the of course when youre a kid, the holidays and the language, but i actually incorporated those images into the stories i wrote as a little girl. As i grew older i became much more aware of the dilemma of women in terms of the caste system and troubles based on tribal practices and so forth. What it utilized today was text book called women, the unfinished revolution, which, of course, presents viewpoints of women globally and has a lot of material about women in india. On semester c, where i work as a visiting faculty, on two global tours, we went to india. I took my students to bangalor to the womens book store and we were able to spend a wonderful afternoon there, also met with a national cartoonist, women writers. That was terrific, and the week spent in India Remains a central part of the semester 2 curriculum. For my students it was very moving to meet with women who were working on behalf of womens rights at the time, and were directed to look at that again with recent concerns about violence against women in india getting a lot of media innings the country. But Media Attention in the country. Is was affect by writings by indian men as a kid because the School Library had a lot of becomes donated. He who rides a tiger, and books about untouchables or the caste, so this is one of my favorite subjects. Thank you for asking. Host we are talking today with professor Bonnie Morris, who teaches at George Washington university and Georgetown University here in washington, dc. Also the author of six nonfiction books beginning in 1997, with the High School Scene in the 50s, in 1998, mature women in america came out. Girl reel, revenge of the womens studies professor came out in 2009, and her most recent book, womens history for beginners. And i should mention that womens history for beginners is the booktv Book Club Selection for me month of february. Guest woohoo. Host go to book of. Org and theres a to be that says book club and you can participate in our discussion at booktv. Org. Well be posting video and reviews and articles up there tomorrow. So the discussion will begin tomorrow. Well also be posting on a regular basis discussion questions. So, i hope youll be able to participate. Bonnie morris womens history for beginners is our february 2014 Book Club Selection on booktv. Next call from jan in North Carolina. Jan, back to the quiz. When were women first admitted to Yale University . Caller i believe it was also in the early 70s, 73, 74. Guest somewhere there around. I cant remember the exact date. You could take classes before then but integration into the ivy league comes after title ix. My husband graduated west point, and several years before women were in enlisted into west point, he always wondered how they did all the things he did. Always amazing to him. My basic question is, how do you answer whether the feminist woman against a conservative or conservative woman against a feminist. The opposite contrast of allowing them to believe their beliefs, whether the woman is a feminist and she doesnt believe in guns or war, or she is a conservative and she goes out and handles rifles or does hunting or camping, or stays home and does the knitting and crocheting. Why do they tear each other apart and not get together as women . Guest what a great question. Got a couple of years . Well, okay. Youre raising the question, do you have to subscribe to one set of political beliefs to be a feminist, and another question youre raising is, why do women in failing to unite, waste a lot of energy tearing each other down. Theres a lot of trashing that goes on in the Womens Movement. No doubt about it. And i certainly experienced some of that myself. I believe, though, what youre bringing up is very significant, and that is how many issues do women disagree on where you have more than one stance, as moving women forward. For example, the we of women in the military the question of women in the military is complicate. One filmist viewpoint might be, yes, women have every opportunity, including combat if they qualify. Close no occupations to win. Everyone should have access. Another feminist viewpoint might be, women shouldnt kill. Women shouldnt participate in militaristic enterprises. These are both womens viewpoints and theyre both very significant viewpoints. Another example would be, does it empower a woman to participate in football or is it violent . These are issues where theres a lot of dissent. I think theres space for disagreement. Where i become concerned is when a woman is empowering her viewpoint, voting or giving money to causes, but take opportunities away from other women or going to forbid women to get services they need. I think that among my circle of friends theres a lot of disagreement on different issues, and i think in the classroom its very important that i create a climate where everyones viewpoint is welcome. I think i do that reasonably well. The fact i also have office hours and email where students can disagree privately with something somebody else might have said and they dont have to engage in a public debate, thats helpful. I think it takes a while for students to bring up the kind of confidence that i just have naturally. And its very hard to argue in a public forum when youre in your first year of college. It takes a while for a student to develop the skills and maybe arguing with someone in the next seat. I dont have an answer to your question in terms of how women discourage one another from following their own goals if to the goals feel right for them and a great criticism of feminism, it made women feel like if they didnt have a career they werent valuable. Women said, im just a house wife. That is a problem because it was supposed to be about choices. You choose to be a stay stayate mom, rock on. But, yes, those different approaches to empowerment should be honored. Host what wave are we in now . You said the second wave guest theres a lot of disagreement whether its use toll continue thinking in wave. The third wave was seen as a moment by young feminists of color to look at intersectionallity. Race, class, gender. Your it neck heritage, racial standpoint, inform your feminism, i would say that right now, the predicament is everyone is reacting against their mothers feminism. The students i have now are the daughters of moms who were activists in the 70s and have to make their own definition. As radical as our mothers were in the 70s, the fact they were mothers makes what they did square, if you follow. In other words, i understand its normal to rebel against your parents. Im close to my patients but the idea you have to come up with a new definition understandable. What everyone is still interested in are these issues of the body, the majority of papers my students do are about images of women in the media, how women are made to feel negative about their bodies, excessive dieting, girls being pushed to dress very sexually at an early age, that toddlers and tierras program where little girls are pushed into beauty pageants as age three. All of the ways in which we sexualize kids, which is a big problem in a country dealing with a pedophilia scandal here and there. Those endlessly interest my students. Theyre also very interested in International Issues of the body. How do we evaluate Something Like female circumcision, what do we do with issues of women who are expected to have what another definition might be, genital mutilation . How do you control that . All of this is material that speaks to my students who are dating and reproductive age. Theyre not as quick to want to look at property issues of the 1850s. And that also is a reminder that each wave of feminism is addressed Different Things based on who is participating. Host from revenge of the womens studies professor, you write when student dont like the grade on their exams and blast off an email my first caution to them is always, stop, think, would you speak to a male professor this way . Guest yeah. I now am very familiar with ambitious students who fall apart at the sign of an ayeminus and thats a haulmark of our excellent universities here in the district. But i know that on some occasions ive had students confront me in ways i dont think they would in an older male professor. When i first started teaching, no one believed i was a professor. I had several appointments in places where there werent a lot of women faculty and i would be challenged if i went into the faculty room or would have actually i had some students say youre in the wrong place, this is a women in war clarks on the first day. I said, thats right, im the professor. So stick around, okay . I was asked at harvard to show my i. D. When i entered the english departments faculty lounge. I was meeting a colleague to have lunch, and then the embarrassed guy who confronted me said, oh, well, but youre too young and pretty to be a professor. And im like, really . What does that say . That the image of a woman professor is some kind of angry hag . And these are these all of events and encounters that made up my onewoman play, revenge of the womens studieses professor, and the book is based on what it was like touring with a play that engaged audiences to look at what is going on in schools. Host dana, twitter why are liberal feminists so antisecond amendment . Paraphrase. God created humans but sam colt made them equal. Guest well, i think that the problem of gun violence is a very significant one. I think theres a lot of women who come out of the Peace Movement and the movement that looks at violence in all its forms. I think a lot of women do feel safe if they have been sexually assaulted and are experiencing post traumatic stress. Often proficiency with firearms gives that kind of the recovering victim more confidence. I also say that women are on the front lines of seeing how gun violence affect communities. Theyre in hospitals. Because women still are the majority of nurses and teachers, the issue of gun violence in schools and how its affecting how kids are the psychologically terrified. I think thats a womens issue. Host Bonnie Morris do you have any male heros in the womens Rights Movement . Guest oh, sure, you bet. My gosh. Okay. Burtch by, of bayh, behind title ix. Now im going to race around memory. Host you do that. If you come up with one throughout the program you can added in. That as a little bit of a curve ball. Bruce in laurel, maryland. Bruce, which black woman ran for president of the u. S. In 1972 . This is from Bonnie Morris quiz. Caller her last name is davis . Guest no. Shirley chisolm. She poke at duke university. When i was 11 my mother took me to see her and that had a big impact on my life. I had show a film about her campaign in my class. Host good ahead, bruce. Caller when you say women what, i apologize. Bruce, that was me who cut you off. I was moving on, i have no idea why i did that and it was inexcusable. And i apologize to you. Dep bra in detroit, michigan. High, debra. Caller good afternoon. How are you both and a special greetings to professor morris. Enjoying your show. Wish id gotten that question because thats my statement was going to start off with three of my political sheroes, and Joanne Watson who went off council in december, and have something experience working on campaigns as well as going through a lot of respect of he woman lea wilson about closing the leadership gap. I had the opportunity to meet her and to go through one of her programs here in michigan. One of the things you see ones that it women are very unrepresented, but the other is just how that intersects with race, and gender, and for africanamerican women, just seems to be you have to transcend the issues of class, race, and im wondering if you have given any thought to looking at how this plays out in terms of the kinds of policy that were seeing. To me theres an attack on the working class nowdays. Guest absolutely. Host professor, if you can hang on, debra, i wasnt prepared but now i have your quiz question it you would like to take one who is the first black woman to win an olympic gold medal. Caller that would have been she ran track will ma rudolph. Guest actually, i think Alice Coachman before, but Wilma Rudolph then, yes. I have posters of both in my office. So let me answer you question. My great privilege is to occasionally work with donna brazil at georgetown. She is on the faculty of womens studies and i defer to her in terms of her class on women in american politics addresses many of these issues from her perspective as a longtime campaigner and critic. In terms of, yes, could we have better representation of working women and women issues if we had more diversity and representation . Absolutely. And what is great about shirley chisolm. She was put on the Agriculture Committee as a freshman representative, and she refused saying, you know, i represent Bedford Stuyvesant and we dont have a lot of agriculture trip. Need to address my constituent issues. I just love that. By the way, my grandfather lived in Bedford Stuyvesant as a little boy as a jewish immigrant kid. Anyway, the idea that we dont have a full representation says a great deal. First of all, it means its very difficult for women to run and a lot of women are reluctant to do so. This is often credited to women believing theyre not prepared or having difficulties fundraising. And i think theres a lot of reluctance on the part of many women to subject. Thes to the criticism that comes when you run for office. I also believe that if women like chisolm run, their campaign is less of a focus on gender than on race, and we see that in the story of shirley chisolm. She was not primarily seep as a female candidate but as a black woman, and she was treated very differently than the way hillary and sarah palin were evaluated in terms of femininity. Host guess what, bruce is back. They i cut off. Bruce, hi, thanks, i apologize. Caller thats all right. I was saying, a book by Sheila Rothman about feminism, she went into detail about how the reason women wanted the vote was two things, theyre morally superior and wanted to limit womens participation in the work force, and she goes in detail how they did that. My point i wanted to ask about, she talking about title ix. She says title womens studies courses, and theres no mens studies. Ive been told its actually there are mens studies and the reason she said theres engineering is dominated, one woman in the class, and obviously women in most colleges, more women in college, you see more for women than men, and all sorts of things you can have in a mens studies course that have never been brought out before. Guest actually we have a lot of classes that look specifically asthmas christianity at masculinity. There are classes now that are more likely to be defined as gender studies and look at sexual limitationses, experiences for men and women, and theres obviously great deal of interest in transgender identities. So actually looking at men is found in womens studies where it might not be found elsewhere. In my sports class we begin with mens history because i like to point out that its not true, men always played sports. Men as well as women were banned from sports by our puritan an an zest are sos who thought it was the devils pastime and only later did men become involved in football elm issue that not having mens studies violates equal rights, its an interesting argument. Ill take you on. I think what happens is in the same way when you have a black Student Union and white students say we get to have a white students union, programs, groups, institutions, that begin to rectify invisibility or lack of opportunity do not necessarily then impede other students rights to see themselves as a majority all the time. Students will get mens history in every class they take. They will not often be told, oh, bill the way, this didnt apply to women. Oh, biffle oh, by the way no women were allowed to do this. And womens studies is an elective. No one is required to take it. It is a part of an option for furthering indepth study in our field. In Higher Education you get to specialize. Here is a chance to specialize and why were women in the past forbidden from sports, the military, medicine, Higher Education, diplomacy . Why are so many schools still closed to girls . Why do we see these statistics, one in three women will be raped in her lifetime. Often times these are uncomfortable questions. A classroom is a good place to negotiate, hough do we know what we know about womens lives. When have women been empowered to tell their own stories and back to the question about mail feminists i admire. Jon Stewart Mills who wrote, on the subjects of women in 1869, he was an early proponent of, quote, women telling their truths to men, and was one of the first guys to name the problem of Domestic Violence, he said we dont know womens truths because women are afraid. They often live in context where theyre physically intimidated. So we have gentlemen addressing these questions in the 1970s. We did not get the first Rape Crisis Center until 1972. So 100 years later. So for all of these reasons in some scenarios, its necessary to have a faith base to provide backup info on women. But, yes, most universities also include courses on masculinities now, and i address that in one of my classes, too. 202s the area code, 5353882. If you cant get through on the phone to talk with Bonnie Morris you can send a tweet booktv. Or an email, book toe toe cspan. Org. We have a little over an hour and 20 minutes left with our guest this month. We like to visit our authors in their work places or homes to see how they write and where they write. The producer of this program, tawnya davis, visited with professor morris at George Washington university. As i will write my first ideas for the next project usually in my notebook in maybe the back section. So making it separate from this is my day exheres what i want to do next. And i start with a title and an outline. I almost mete immediately break it into how many chunks are in this idea and with that encloses bond to like chapters, and then some chapter i can flesh out. When you send a book proposal to an editor they want content, table of contents and chapters, so i automatically think in terms of what i can show a publisher. You have to boil everything down to not a sound bite but a very succinct chunk. Usually in writing almost all of the books ive pressured, die the middle chapter first. Maybe an introduction, and then Something Like chapter five or chapter seven, because often the thing im best prepared to write is building off something i might have written even ten years before or i kind of pirate off my own past work. I write in the middle of the day because thats when my office hours are. And what i have done is, of course, i have quite a lot of time in my office when students can come and meet with me, but they dont. They really do prefer to email, and its a couple of year ago i recallized i was using the time waiting for students to come in to work on chapters, and now most of my productivity seems to be between, like, 10 00 and 2 00, and the downside of that is that when students come to see me, know my greatest fault is sometimes i will show on my face that im annoyed at being interrupted and that was the biggest sin, and then i immediately cringe and apologize, no, please, come in, sit down. Let me take this off the screen. The fact is, i have a very comfy office with a great tape player and im dating myself but i have mixed tapes of womens music. If i come in here on the weekendses and no one is around in the building, man, i will make the coffee, blast the music, and i am just so happy. Host Bonnie Morris, what is it about harriet, the spokeswoman, and louise fitzhugh. Guest its the answer to every question about my life. When i brought my ancient tattered copy earlier i showed it to some other folks here. Well, hairest wants to be a writer. I knew i wanted to be a writer from the age of five or six. I know that when i was six, when adults asked what i wanted to be when i grew up, i said writer. The book is unusual in that she is a knowsy little girl who is not just writing about dogs and bunnies, but is spying on adults and trying to figure out, frankly, their mixed messages, even their hypocrisy, their variety. She is independent. Her parents are somewhat absent. She is very attached to her caregiver. A lot going on in that book. That was the book that all the girls in my generation were reading by the time we were eight or nine, and the fact that here was a role model, some young girl who wanted to be a writer, i didnt know at the time that the author, lewis louise fitzhugh, was gay, and i only found another after a search. But fitzhugh lived in greenwich village, was a contemporary of a lot of other women who are influential in the arts, and harriet struck me at the time a little kid in sneakers and blue jeans, writing stuff down, why i wouldnt identify with that . And many of my other friends did, too. Host you also talk about tony armstrong, jr. Guest my friend who is a womens music journalist, and who brought me into writing about womens Music Festivals with an editorial eye, and made me a much better writer. Im very grateful. And also a friend i love. Host right below that is thing my womyns Music Festival. Im 0 coordinator for the Community Center in michigan. I try to live yeararound as though im in festival culture, meaning its a place i identify as a home and where most of my most beloved friends return annually to create a city of women once a year. Writing about that experience can be very personal. One of the reasons im grateful tony is she was that is her own basement, running a womens music magazine, and he invited me to write for hot wire and was an editor, get to the point, what do you mean . I think everyone requires an editor if way dont be a writer, and i came out of academia and can be quite longwinded, as you see, so its a different kind of writing and also wanting to create an accurate record about what women musicians were doing. So, yes, festival culture, not just michigan but camfest, National Womens Music Festival, sister flyer, the new england womens music retreat. My mother went with me to nine different festivals and my father went to one, sister fire, which had men as well as women in the audience. Those are the most valued memories for me in terms of taking in as well as reproducing womens culture. Host men were welcome at some of those . Guest yes. Quite a few are in public venues. National was at a college campus. Sister fire was held for years at tacoma park in a middle school, which is an open lot. And theres a couple others as well. It just depends on if its a day event or a privatelyowned lan. Host from revenge of the womens studies professor, thick youre talking with either a book editor or chairman of your department and you were told always make the main character of your book a boy to increase sales. Girls will read books about little boys but boys wont pick up a book about a girl. Guest thats actually a Job Interview i had in the midwest, where i was brought in as a candidate for a womens history position, and the gentleman interviewing me was the head of the history department. Looked at my syllabus and said, well, i think theres a problem here. All of these courses have the word women in the title. I thought, yeah. So i dont think youd say to he specialist in chinese history, we take the word china out that might stop some of our students. And im told to my face in an interview for womens history, professorship, the word woman will turn off the male students. This was recently, in the span of american history, and anyway, in that session im reflecting on, when you market to a general audience, the main imperative is not to offend the male readership or male students or whomever, and i found that was a message i got in a job situation that i really didnt expect. Host George Washington and Georgetown Professor Bonnie Morris is the author of six nonfiction books. The High School Scene in the 50s. Women in america, 1998. Eden, built by eve, 1999. Girl reel, 2000. Vaccine of the womens studies professor, 2009. Her most recent, womens history for beginners. Are you working on a book now . Guest i certainly am. Im working on several. And in fact i should add i also had three other books that were supposed to be in present, all of which experienced the press going bankrupt just as the book was going to be published. Thats a sign of the times. Im working on a womens sports textbook, to correspond in my class, international athletics, and im also working on a book about the erasure of recent womens culture, the disappearance of womens book stores and events, and why that is happening. That is very much a look at how weve built lgbt history into many of our universities now but the l is being written out. Theres less of a representation in terms of classes that look at the female experience. What i want to do is talk about what its like to live through an era that ises shifting, and are we going to lose information about womens lives which we will have later on, in the same way that poetry was celebrated and then burned, fragmented, now we wish we had it in front of us. A lot of contempt for the kind of achievements that were really centering around lesbian activism, which impelled feminism forward. Now its the stereo type of the birkenstock, eating grandknoll la, and i was happy to be that person i did a lot of work. Who was safo. Guest greekpot. Sixth century. You can she wrote in a way that simultaneously described everyday life for young girls who expected to mary as child brides and were terrified of dying in child birth. A lot of that its their fear of losing their maiden head. And she had women lovers and wrote about those relationships in a romantic way. One of her most moving pieceses, you may laugh but some day someone will think of us, and i think that has made my really committed to ensuring she is remembered. Host dan in bridgewater, new jersey. You have been very patient. Please go ahead with your question or comment for professor Bonnie Morris. Caller yeah. I had the unique opportunity to see the feminist issues unfold in my grandmothers generation, before world war i, my mothers generation. My own generation in world war ii and this was in Eastern Europe and coming to america and being exposed to feminism in the 60s and 70s while i was married. I had a chance to see feminism unfold in asia, and i had a chance to see it unfolding in my daughters and my granddaughters. So, its a sort of spectrum there that shows many variations and complications that women feel no matter what kind of support or nonsupport the family host what some observations particularly maybe about your mother and grandmothers generation in Eastern Europe . Caller this was in Eastern Europe, where you would think they were much more closedminded than in the United States. Women were in quotas to be sure, just like jews were admitted in quotas to university, but if they made it, really pushed them to excel, and when they excelled. Like madam currie, they were totally recognized for their position, but i what im really interested in was a complaint that ben friedan had about a certain switch of feminism that was going from women in general, into the lesbian area, which was something completely different, and as a grandson to a grandfather of girls who may or may not go into that area, im deeply concerned that were being distracted from the real issue of the woman fitting into the new society by some of the particularities. Host hsu to much. Caller one more thing. Is that as a physician, and coming from a family of physicians who in those days there were no female physicians so we had to do the still had to do the medical care of women, we find that these kind of social notions that are going on today and not dealing with really medical crisis that women face, the high price they pay for child birth and all these things, and it just seems to me that not talking about women in a normal flow of situations, given how much we know, just like talking about men in the normal situations, and getting kind of stuck in the lesbian homosexual environment. Host i think we got the point. Lets hear from professor morris. Guest a very get subject. First of all, i want to refer to a very good book title by suzanne far, homophobia, a weapon of sexism. One of the reasons there is a focus on lesbian identity in womens studies is not only to cover the full range of womens lives and experience, but also as long as a woman is shamed for not getting married or not being attracted to a man or expected to put all of her energy into attracting a man, that is behind a lot of the limitations on what women are allowed to do. As long as a woman can be pushed into a relationship with a man because if she wont say yes to him, someone is going to call her a lesbian, that is an issue. Huge issue in terms of Sexual Violence in the military. Prove youre straight by going out with me. So, its very important to look at, if lobesandthe worst thing you can call somebody, how does that affect women then submitting to forced relationships with men or foregoing other opportunities or what have you. So thats very important to say. I agree with you that the majority of women around the world do marry and become mothers and, therefore, we have to look at what are the conditions and emergencies, frankly in Reproductive Health care. Absolutely. But we also see lesbians as mothers. Thats very important, and we see how shabbily theyre treated in the healthcare system. Are their partnerships even recognized . We have a really checker boarded legal system in the United States. Statebystate, theres no guarantee if you go into an emergency room that your partner is permitted to see you. That you have say so over your partners kid that youre allowed to adopt as a second parent. Your partners kid. That can result in everything from death to the complete alienation of lesbians in the health care system, which then guest verse sis the needs of, you know, a young Soccer Player in northern virginia. All of those issues can be addressed in womens studies, though, and thank you for letting me talk about them. Host Bonnie Morris, on your quiz in womens history for beginners, who founded Bryn Mawr College . I wrote mrs. Mawr, but i dont think thats the correct answer, is it . Guest no. You know what . I know who it is, but im so distracted by this last discussion, so, boy, am i going to hear about this. Forgive me. A really dynamic woman. Everybody should read the book to believe in women which looks at the founders and activists of womens colleges. Host paul, hemlock, michigan. Paul, who was the first woman admitted to medical school in the United States . Caller you know, im drawing a blank. I do not know. Host that makes two of us. All right, go ahead with your question or comment for Bonnie Morris. Caller violence has been used im a father of three daughters, and ive got three granddaughters, and violence has been used against everybody on this world walking this earth. But when it comes to my children, i would lay down my life for em. But my i question is my question is, why culturally do we have women abusing people abusing women in the middle east and the eastern bloc of europe . Its a cultural thing. This the south pacific. In the south pacific. Women should be held in high regard. My mother was held in high regard. I just dont understand how cultures have formulated their idea of keeping women down, so could you address that . Host paul, do you consider yourself a feminist . Caller no. Im a man who believes in equal rights for everybody. So thats not feminist, thats just humanism. Guest okay. Although it would make you one. Anyway, the answer is elizabeth blackwell. She was anytimed to Geneva Medical College as a joke. Host as a joke . Guest okay. Yes. She applied, and it was put to a vote of the male student body, and they thought it was so i lair yous and that she would surely fail, and they were amazed when she actually showed up and completed the course of study. Okay. Why is there violence against women, and it is local as well as global. Its not limited to any nation. Its an issue in every country. And the fbi can offer all kinds of bitter statistics that showcase how much its a part of American Culture. The will to keep women limited or to treat women as property which is supported by custom and law since time immemorial, a lot of it is simply a part of patriarchy which enables men to control women and anyone this their household in their household. That included in ancient history servants and slaves and concubines. A man was empowered to punish anyone. And the earliest code of laws we have shows that there were already dozens and dozens of laws about controlling women and how to punish them and distinctions between good women l and bad. It also gave men the right to put their wives and their children to death if they disobeyed. So it begins with scriptural support, violently controlling anyone whos disobedient and the absolute authority that men had over wives, and it moves into the control families are permitted over their kids. And some people take that to a violent extreme. Its really only been identified as, you know, pathological behavior in my lifetime. Host they just gave me the answer, i just got the answer from guest i know. Host and meg in the control room, theyre writing up words, and is it martha carey . Bryn mawr . Guest no, its somebody else. Host oh, okay. Chris in seattle. Caller hi. Host please go ahead with your question or comment. Caller hey, bonnie, its Chris Williamson calling. Guest oh, my god, i love you so much. Caller i love you too. Im so happy. Guest this is one of the most important women in music whose album should be known and put forward the future of olivia records with her best selling album. Caller oh, youre the best. [laughter] i just called because i am so proud to see you on this show. I watch it pretty regularly just to see whos writing about what because as a writer myself, you know, i feel its my job to lean into the wheel, and i love that you love harriet [laughter] because i think musicians and writers are all spies, its what we do. You know . Its where we get the pulse of life, by listening. And you are such an avid listener, and you, your embrace is huge, and it just gets ive seen it get wider and wider. I just want to thank you for keeping the heart in there, you know . Because you know when i came in, there just werent any courses in this at all. And so i learned by heart, you know . And at the feet of mostly, you know, really intense women who were intent on changing the world for women bit by bit by bit. So cheyenne i just wanted to i throw this in, the cheyenne nation has a great saying, and they honor grandmothers like crazy because theyre the keepers of the story. And the greek word history just means the story guest yes. Caller you know . And were in charge of the story of our lives. And the cheyenne nation says when the hearts of women are on the ground, a nation is finished. Guest uhhuh. Caller so i thank think think the work youre doing is just imperative to, you know, keeping the heart of this world up there where it needs to be on the high road. And i love that one of your influences was that you entered the wave unafraid, and you always have. You entered youre entering the second wave unafraid. Host chris, how caller and thank you. Host how did you get involved in the Music Festival industry . [laughter] caller i wouldnt call it an industry, ill tell you that. It is a way of life, is what it is. I became ive been a musician all my life, and ive been involved in independent record companies, three of them, three different times. And olivia records, which i helped invent right there in d. C. Around a round table which is how women gather their ideas, circumstance harley sirularly, they asked me about sexism in the industry, and id had a major label for about a second, and i puz thrown back into the pool, the big gene pool of musicians where i swim quite readily. But, you know, there were a lot of us who were invisible, and i know, bonnie, you have been imperative in addressing the invisibility of women. You just bring it forward, you bring it forward, bring it toward and say look at this, look at in this woman, look at that. The names, the history, all of it. So that we are not invisible. And what i have done is mostly without very many pronouns, honestly, a few there at the top when i wrote sweet woman which was a love song to a woman by a woman. Women wrote to me and said i had to drive off the road because i was weeping so hard. And we address the heart of the thing, of the matter. And honestly, the man who said he was a humanist probably not a feminist. If embrace goes wider, youll see, sir, that with all due respect, feminists are humanists. This is the human condition. Were born, we have this middle period where we can do some good work, and then we check out at the end, you know . Like a grand hotel. And bonnie has been there at the hotel desk checking people in, checking them out, noting their passage through life. So thank you, bonnie. This is just me calling to say how proud i am. Youre the arrow we shot from the bow in the 70s. We shot it high and far as we could, and you are still flying. Guest you know, theres nothing like having your role model call in and give you a compliment to make you feel like you can die happy. So chris is on the cover of my book, shes one of the musicians whos featured. And, of course, thats one of tony armstrongs host which one is she . Guest she is right there in white. Host all right. Guest and, of course, i have every album chris ever recorded, including the first one on different label. And weve worked together on o olivia cruzs one of my best memories is chris singing in the arena at the temple of diana which is also, of course, a very famous place where, you know, pauls letters to the ephesians told all women to shut to shut to their to submit to their husbands. The womens music tradition, of course, predates the 70s movement. Im writing about that now. There were, of course, womens songs in every culture in the oral traditioning, its what made womens stories possible when women were illiterate. But i want to credit chris to Something Else related to an earlier caller who asked me to remember the stories of women of color. Chris has been very good about foregrounding native womens stories in her music. Grandmothers land is one of my favorite songs. And its been very important to me to incorporate the histories of native american and native canadian women, aboriginal women of all backgrounds. When i lectured in new zealand, maori womens stories and their historical oppression and their survival. One of the things im very proud of right now is im helping a Womens Basketball team get to the allnative basketball tournament in british columbia, and these are women who come from what used to to be called e Queen Charlotte islands. Its as far west as you can go. And its one of the oldest nonaffected by the ice age sites of north america. But there you find women who were members of the hyda tribe and others who are trying to preserve ancient ways as well as participating in modern life. And that story, also, is often left out of womens history, or well focus entirely on black and white women and struggle. The experiences of native american women, wow. Not having the right to be an american citizen until 1924, lets start there. Highest degree of sterilization without consent. On many reservations. But on the other hand, stories of leadership as well. Women with great names like wilma mankiller, but also great traditions of poets and writers. All of thats important to me, and i appreciate that what ive found in the womens Music Movement is women like chris who are not leaving that out of the story. And other women who bring in a diverse perspective of womens lives in song and performance. Host berkeley girl 63 tweets in so excited to aerofrom Chris Williamson to hear from Chris Williamson. The changer and the changed is a musthave in every collection. Next call comes from renee in akron, ohio. Nay, from Bonnie Morris book, womens history for beginners, what is griswold v. Connecticut . Guest thats a good one. Caller i have no idea. [laughter] host okay. What is griswold v. Connecticut . Guest its a 1965 case that says that married couples have a right to get a Birth Control prescription from their doctor. The griswolds were a couple in connecticut who found they couldnt, even as a married couple, get Birth Control, and they brought the case to the state, and it became reinterpreted as a right to privacy issue. Host go ahead with your question or comment, renee. Caller okay. Ill do my best here. So much is going through my mind. I just went online and ordered your book. Guest oh caller when you had the discussion about the first African Women to set foot in americas, that really piqued my interest in what a valuable writer that you probably are, so i had to have your book. When i consider the history of slavery and domination and oppression of africanamerican women in this country by whites, i wonder do you write about this your book about the identity struggle that black women have in trying to align themselves with movements throughout history . Guest uhhuh. Caller and what to take seriously and what to not take seriously. And i wonder as black authors that you have encountered, do you feel that they have made an adequate attempt whether recognized or not to try and put forth a chronological and realistic history of our struggle in this country . Guest yes. Host thank you, renee. Guest yes, thank you very much for that great question. Obviously, i was very affected by the writings of alice walker, audrey lord, also the work of belle hooks. There are a lot of really dynamic critics. I have a very good library of writings about black feminism, also a lot of literature. And i would say that d. C. Is definitely a place where you hear those voices. Busboys and poets is a location where some to have best writings by black feminist critics can be bought. I was part of a womens stage for 14 years which is of a very diverse venue for women to read poetry into the microphone about identity as black and female. And ive participated as well in a lot of readings and workshops that are held at the universities. Georgetown, actually, had in the spring of 89 a very intense threeday conference on ethnic identity and feminism. Very contentious, as these things go. Definitely one of the issues, of course, is to what degree any woman identifies primarily with her racial or ethnic group and then when the focus shifts to being a woman in that community. And, you know, ill joke that in a group of women im, you know, a woman, and if somebody makes an antisemitic joke, then im jewish. And so forth. So what i find is the difficulty bringing this material into the classroom where you might have, lets say, 20 white students and three black students. And the black students are put on the spot to represent everything about black womens history that they might be reading about for the first time. And white students will assume that they should be on the defensive and cant participate in the discussion. Those are real issues of how each generation transmits important material to the next. I would definitely say that we are not given enough information many particular about the lives of black women in slavery, but i also think its difficult to put a focus on that or on someone like rosa parks without keeping a kind of feeling of violation at the forefront. This is the same issue in feminist studies. Where do you draw the line between a history that paints you as a victim and a history that makes students feel truly empowered . You have to look at the outrages and the violations, but you also have to talk about what are the tools that empowered women to survive, how did they cope, how did they teach each other to read, what were the songs of slavery, how did they quote maps of the underground railroads in their embroidery, who did take acts of revenge, who did run away continually to be reunited with a child, and who who were e white women who hid the runaway, and who were the white women who turned her away . All of that knits us together. My mother was putting me very early on the path to studying racism. She remembers when i was a toddler sitting on the front steps with me explaining why the trash collectors were black. And i became very involved in looking at these issues from a young age because i have a short story i wrote in second grade on Martin Luther king and the language of slavery. Its always a i was a very unusual little kid, but that storys there. And in that story i was able to relate the struggle for black identity with my own understanding of having a i jewish identity. When you start a conversation with a kid, it will flower. But a lot of people believe you have to delay those conversations until, you know, youre in college. A lot of people dont go to college. So this is why we have to get womens studies, black history, everything into high schools and middle schools. By the way, m. Carrie thomas is the person who founded bryn mawr. It came to me in the synapse just now. Host and you know what . That was my next thing because i wrote it down. They gave me the right they gave me that information. Guest i remembered it. Host pardon me. Arvin tweets in to you, professor morris please ask professor morris to narrate her story about asking president clinton to watch the Womens Basketball game. Guest well, i know, i filmed an interview about that earlier, but sure. Okay. So already a womens sports fan and basketball fan when i first began teaching at gw in 1994, i went to a doubleheader, and this was when they would have one ticket got you the mens game and the womens game, a long afternoon. So i was going to see two games, but i was surprised to have to go through a metal detector which had never happened at gw s. And somebody said the president s here. President clinton had brought chelsea to the game. He was very accessible. You could go right up and shake his hand. He went into the crowd and met folks. And the men began to play. They win. And then the president got up to leave, and i was startled and then outraged. Here is the commander in chief whos supposed to support title ix law at that time, by the way, the womens team had a better record than the mens, and he was going to walk out with his daughter when the women took the court. I didnt think so. So i pushed my way through the crowd, stuck out my hand and said, hi, mr. President , im a womens studies professor here, and id like to ask you that you stay and support the womens team. Dont leave now that the women have won. It would be very important to the women of america and your daughter to show your support for womens sports. And he shook my hand and said id love to stay, but i have a meeting at the white house at two or something. And i looked at my watch, and i said, well, you can watch the first half of the womens game. Please sit down. And he went back and sat down. So i gave a direct order to the president of the United States. And he became the first president to phone in congratulations to the winning womens team of the ncaa championship that march, and i like to think i had something to do with that. Host gordon, felton, delaware. Hi. Caller hi. Can you hear me okay . Guest yes. Host were listening. Caller okay, great. I do appreciate the great passion that i do sense coming from your guest. But im coming at it from a completely different perspective theres no argument that Domestic Violence for so long was not handled in an appropriate hander by the system manner by the system, but id like to speak to the whole issue of, quoteunquote, womens subjugation and them being the victims of Domestic Violence. With everything thats been done now, ive seen this throughout history, you know, as ive studied history, when you attempt to confront a social ill that is on one extreme, inevitably youre going to go to the other extreme. I think we have the axiom for it called the pendulum effect. And i had seen that. In fact, im going to be speaking at a conference in d. C. This summer sponsored by Faith Services and the center for [inaudible] integrity. And its going to highlight my experiences, how that i was thoughtfully arrested nine times which all have been expunged and ive received an apology, but it was based upon the allegations of what was proven to be an emotionally disturbed individual. But because there has been such one extreme to the either and, you know, my experience was not an isolated incident. It seems to be that thats where weve gotten to, where the system instead of going by rule of law regarding Domestic Violence issues, we now adhere to a more err on the side of caution. So that has been my experience. And i would like to get any kind of feedback or comment from you regarding host thank you, sir. Lets leave it there. We got the point. Guest yeah, no. I think thats an important point. I understand what youre saying. I have a friend who was falsely accused recently. I this think youre quite right i think youre quite right that the erring on the side of caution has been a problem in terms of families being charged, for example, with potentially abusing kids if the kid shows up at school bruised. We have schools expelling kids for bringing in aspirin or a fork because of our anxiety about weapons. I would say these are aspects, yes, of a system thats adjusting to responding to things no one ever did respond to before. I dont think that there is that much of a extreme pendulum swing. I think, if anything, were uncovering more and more examples that were horrified to see have been accepted as normal all along. I know that in the past, for example, a double standard sent women to prison for much longer sentences when they committed crimes because we were so shocked that women would break the law at all. So theres plenty of room for adjustment in the justice system, and im sorry for what you experienced. I would say that looking for evidence of Domestic Violence as part of, say, you know, a patrol cars response in any scenario, that is a good thing. And what weve found is that when women are paired with men in police partnerships, that often we do get a better story or a fair story in a call like that. I would also add that having discovered the huge problem of assaults on girls, we have rapidly moved into an almost total focus on assaults on boy withs. And while thats an important thing looking at what happened at penn state or altar boys being molested and so forth, it again makes it much more egregious if a boy is violated than a girl. And i think we respond her rapidly. I dont have an answer to how we prevent false accusations. And i certainly do know of women who have abused the system by making false reports. People do that also with inventing, hate crimes. We certainly know that there are women who, in fact, were guilty of abusing their kids who blamed an outside party. All of that is a part of people abusing the system. Host just about a half hour left with this months in depth guest, professor Bonnie Morris. She teaches both at George Washington and at Georgetown University. The author of six nonfiction books and poetry books as well. Her most recent is womens history for beginners which also is our booktv Book Club Choice for february. So if you go to booktv. Org, youll see a tab up at the top. It says book club. You can participate just click on that, you can participate in the conversation. Well be putting well be posting everything up tomorrow, this video from this program as well as reviews and articles by Bonnie Morris. Well also be posting questions, discussion questions throughout the month of february. So pick up a copy, and wed love to have you participate and interact with each other. Its kind of an Online Book Club since so much of our world is online anymore. Well, our next call comes from dory in san antonio, texas. Dory from womens history for beginners, who was the first tale member of female member of congress . Caller i dont know that. Im 80 years old, and i cant remember dates anymore. Im an i was an activist in the Womens Movement in the 1970s. I had a feminist bookstore in nashville, tennessee, called woman kind guest yeah. Caller and had all the recordings of the womens music that you talk about. Ive been a jazz musician all my life, and thats what i want to talk about. The thing that impacted my life the most negatively in terms of developing as a jazz musician was unintended pregnancies. Because Birth Control was not in sight any place. It was not in the media, it was not available, it was not legal. And so ive been a jazz musician all my life, and just last year i received a Lifetime Achievement award in san antonio. But i would like to hear you talk about margaret sanger, because she is my finish. Guest okay. Wow. Well, first of all, the first woman elected to congress jeanette rankin, and theres a statue of her in the Capitol Rotunda now. Second of all, thank you for everything youve done. Im writing a book chapter about womens bookstores, and i will add you. And im delighted to hear about your career in jazz. I write about that as well. I play the music of women who were in jazz for my classes including the International Sweethearts of rhythm, a mixedrace band in world war ii, but also many other women in jazz. Margaret sanger, yes. A personal hero to my grandmother, my mothers mother, it would appear was one of the first young women in the United States to go to Margaret Sangers clinic as a young woman in the 1920s and always held sanger in the highest esteem. I regret seeing Birth Control reemerge as a controversy almost a hundred years later. Sanger, of course, was forced to leaf leave the country in part because she published a magazine called the woman rebel at a time when it was illegal to send information including discussion about Birth Control through the u. S. Mail. So postal authorities seized her magazine. She had to flee. She, basically, studied in europes first Birth Control clinic which was in holland and returned with information about the diaphragm for american women. What most people dont realize is Birth Control became legal because men were at risk. Condoms were legalized after world war i because more men returned from Service Overseas with sexuallytransmitted diseases than with actual bullet wounds. Much embarrassing uncle sam. And the result, we made condoms legal for men as long as they were sold with the provision, sold for the prevention of disease. So weve actually protected mens health through legalized contraception before women had access to it. For prevention of pregnancy. This is all vital to the material my students are reading now. My students are reading deliberate daughters, the body project, and and the girs who went away, about Sex Education ask Birth Control and how that and Birth Control and how that created pain and suffering for unwed moms. As you indicate, interrupted opportunities. Great question. Host next call is mary ellen in livermore, california. Mary ellen, from Bonnie Morris book womens history forkers, who was the slave who bore Thomas Jeffersons children . Caller ooh, oh, i cannot almost, not quite getting it. Host okay. Guest sally hemings. Caller of course. Guest a huge controversy here at monticello. Caller of course. Host go ahead with your question or comment, mary ellen. Caller well, first of all, thank you, booktv, this is fabulous. I want to be in the book club. Anyway, there seem to be some really strong voices in pop music today. Katy perry, i know she has a huge following, pink. I turn on the radio, and i hear these really powerful women, and then theres the miley cyrus thing and lady gaga, and im wondering if you have any comments about that, and thank you very much. Guest oh, you are so welcome. Yes. I dont mean to situate all of the music i listen to was recorded in the 70s. And i am a big fan of a lot of contemporary musicians. I think one of the things that were looking at is how women present themselves. On stage. Do you have to present yourself many a sexuallyprovocative way in order to be considered commercially viable. Do you have to appeal primarily to the male audience in order to get a commercial contract . If you dont present yourself as attractive in a certain way, will you be dropped or rebuked . Si maid oconnor famously shaved her head because her agent told her to look more feminine. What my students are concerned with is that because lots of little kids want to be famous or appreciate celebrity. Is looking up to someone who dresses provocatively the wrong message to send to little kids . And one of the things that ive, obviously, studied is when youre not worrying about making a good impression on guys who might p want to date you, you can do whatever you want on stage. And it brings out a lot of talented women who might not fit the bill where someone is looking specifically at covergirl looks and so on. Right now a big issue i would say is definitely the degree to which performers generate millions of dollars and have so much opportunity to say useful things at the microphone, do they take advantage of that opportunity. What could they say to younger women that would inspire them . How could they help young women accept themselves . How can you be a role model to young women who dont fit what they think is the american ideal of appearance . And that could be racial, ethnic, size, sexuality. I think its really important that you not just be successful, but that your message contain elements of empowerment. I think theres a lot of Young Artists who are doing that now. I think theres work that could be done. Host next call for Bonnie Morris comes from karen in astoria, new york. Karen, heres your quiz question. Who warned her powerful or husband that he better, quote, remember the ladies. Caller Abigail Adams. Guest yeah host ding, ding, ding. Caller and i partially know that from reading dr. Morris book, the womens history for beginnings, which cspan booktv brought her work to my attention when you interviewed her, a shorter interview several months ago. And so i read womens history for beginners from my Public Library, and thousand im currently reading and now im currently reading revenge of the womens studies professor. Learned a lot from both of them, and my comment is i wanted to say thank you to cspan booktv for bringing this to our attention or what this points of view that are so marginalized in ore media, but you are in other media, but you are devoting three hours that we can learn from professor morris, and im thankful. Host karen, what is can you tell us about yourself. Caller im a feminist, always have been, always will be. Im dr. Morris age, and i am, happen to be a graduate of a womens college. Guest wow. I cant thank you enough. And, of course, i spent many, many happy years in astoria. And i hope that you use the Public Library thats just down the corner. Many good memories and hello to all my friends in astoria. I would say that thank you, again, but i want to also thank cspan. Thanks for giving me an opportunity. Doing this kind of work, many people doubted me when i announced my intention to become a womens studies professor. My family had concerns, my friends. They were supportive, but people worried quite openly how id earn a living or if id find a job. I think it was such an unusual occupation to be interested in. No one was sure how this would work out. Its worked out wonderfully. Ive managed to carve out a job for myself. Ive hanged to do the things ive wanted to within feminist action and also a as a citizen of the global world. I would add that for people who are considering going into womens studies, do not let anyone tell you its not a good role, occupation, pronegatives. When i see profession. When i see how the students respond and how lives are changed, right now im one of the scholarly advisers to the National Womens History Museum we hope to build here in d. C. Thats right, we dont have one. We dont have a National Museum of womens history. And when i see how my students are outraged we tonight have one, we dont have more monuments to women here in the capitol, what does it mean if you dont see your life or your sex represented in statues or in the architecture of a city . So theres much more to be done, and we need even. We need architects and painters and theorists and pharmacists and doctors and lawyers and accountants and even to remember the ladies as Abigail Adams said, remember the ladies. Host laura tweets in to you, professor morris all the womens studies majors i knew in college were back in school five years later getting business degrees. [laughter] guest well, you know, i think a lot of students in my class right now are in the business schools. Theyre doing work as future wall street women or running nonprofits is on their agenda. I think that a lot of people major in something that may not necessarily be what they work in later on. But i wouldnt discourage anyone from pursuing it. I would also say that whats interesting is we have more majors this womens studies than in math and physics combined. We have a lot of people who minor. And we have a huge number of students who simply take the courses. They dont necessarily major. Working with athletes on both campuses is just such a privilege, and many of the athletes are just discovering the history of women in sports for the first time. Theyre thrilled, theyre uplifted. I go to all their games. And i think that making the Information Available to people you might not think would take the class yeah, tool guys, theyre football be guys, theyre incredible. Basketball players, track stars, everybody. And, of course, women in sports. Having everyone together and creating a climate in the classroom is what makes the study of women a successful enterprise for everyone, because they can connect to each others lives. And right now i have students from all over the world in all my classes. Just off the top of my head, haiti, singapore, hong kong, vietnam. And one thing that i allow students to do is, of course, write from their own cultural perspective. What has it been like for them to observe the changing status of women in their culture and society. So were engaged in, you know, global perspectives, were working on the development of the different countries. I have a whole lot of students as well who are very excited by the possibility of doing work in health thats going to prevent some of the illnesses that have kept women from participating more fully. And, of course, in terms of womens sports, one of things i really love is just cheering on many by players. Host r. J. Williams, pell broke pines, florida. , mail is Margaret Chase smith, our republican of maine, senatorial decision ever discussed, and do you consider christina of summers a feminist colleague . Guest good lord. Yes, i include the history of women who have run in my classes, absolutely, and we spend a lot of time on women in politics. Who was the first, who were the unknown candidates. Christina love summers has been very critical of womens studies, and a lot of her books are very hostile to the field. Im happy to talk back to that viewpoint. I think that the field is both academically viable, scholarly sound in a scholarly way. Theres very mixed stereotypes about womens studies. One is that were all, you know, like axewielding, castrating manhaters. Thats a very harsh image. And and then theres the opposite which is were treehugging, you know, nothing really goes on in the classroom, its all airy fairy and so on. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Whats startling to my students is just like anything else, you can flunk this material. Do the readings, take the itses, turn the work in the tests, turn the work in on time or watch your grade go down the tube, and isnt that a wakeup call . So people enrolled thinking this is, you know, an easy class or i just have to agree with the professor and ill get an a or, oh, were all going to sit in a circle and give each other pap smears, wrong. Inaccurate. So i have to be fairly tough on the first day and scare away anybody whos not going to work seriously. And you have to do that. I have to interrupt students who are shaming other students who might be in the room whether thats unintentional, say someone who makes sweeping generalizations about anyone who is on welfare be, right . We talk about unwed moms. Suppose somebody is one, you know . So lets check out whos in the room. This headaches the material makes the material personal, yes. It is personal because it is about the body and sexuality and is life giving and so on. At the same time, im very clear i am not a counselor, im not a rabbi, im not your therapist, so students who need support i can refer them to the appropriate places. I do have students who have cheated. Ive had to deal with plagiarism. Obviously, its a sign of the times that a lot of students are unfamiliar with how you quote correctly from the internet. What this says is womens studies is mainstream. Its like any other class in terms of the academic as educate. Aspect. What brings students in is a variety of motives, and being ready for each of those is also, you know, a very demanding aspect. At the end of day, i come home exhausted, and my replenishment very much comes from being able to write in my journal about my teaching day. And i find i write more and more about teaching and less and less, you know, about other things because im concerned with doing a good job. But also because these interactions raise so many questions about our current moment historically. Host Bonnie Morris, mary jo emails in to you from dearborn, michigan my question deals with the novel the help. My sister is white ask a womens studies professor at a Small College in kentucky. She assigned this book to one of her introductory classes and was criticized by a black colleague for using that book. I remember that there was a lot of controversy surrounding that book and wonder what you think about it. Guest well, my mother gave me the book, and ive read it, and ive assigned it. I use a number of other books as well. I use the mailed narratives the maid narratives which is a very useful book because its actual interviews with women who worked as maids. Theres also interviews in there with women whose moms worked as maids and women whose moms had maids. In other words, both white and black women, everybody involved this these intricate relationships. I understand some of the criticism of the help was that it was written by a white author, and at the same time i think its useful in getting students to think about a really complicated problem in womens history. Segregation kept people apart in housing, schooling, public accommodations. But women were with one another intimately because black women worked in white womens homes and were assigned to do the inti hate care, the daily intimate care, childcare, actually nursing white babies with their own breast milk. All of that. Thats an intimacy that sounds strange when we look at how segregation is supposed to keep us from touching. So it demonstrates a whole lot. One aspect that we tell gate child we delegate child care to people who are seen as less socially important. Because throughout history aristocratic women have always had nurses and servants. So theres a history of servants as well as a racial history. All of that can be summarized in a novel, but it has to be sup mr. President ed with real stories sup mr. President ed with real stories from women who lived through the experience, and theres a way to do that through the curriculum. Its a great question. Host robert in atlanta, georgia. Robert, in what year did a womens bathroom finally have to be added to the Senate Building so that newlyelected women would not miss the roll call for votes . Caller ms. Chism was there, i imagine, so it would probably be 88 . Guest well, actually, 1992, 93. A lot of women ran for and were elected after the anita hill hearings, and you had to leave the Senate Building and go across to another venue to get to a womens facility. This is another example of womens history through architecture. The georgetown Science Building didnt have a womens bathroom until quite recently, because there were never any plans that women would major in science. They had to make a broom closet into a womens room. So the history of segregation through toilets is something i also talk about. And its okay to laugh at this stuff. Host robert, go ahead and ask your question and make your comment. Caller yeah. Im 58 years old, so i, ive seen the Womens Movement, you know, and archie bunker. I guess i consider myself a feminist, but duplicity is the summit of this call, and thats kind of bothered me about the movementment i movement. I want to ask you to address two liberty things, one is [inaudible] i propose this question. If you have a group of women put together in a room and you ask them to take a vote, would you prefer that your future husband headache more money than you or less money than you, that was an interesting answer, particularly considering you want equal pay. And oleana, well, you can just tell me anything you feel about that. Thanks. Guest okay. Well, i dont know enough about oleana to respond. Camille polly is an interesting figure. Part of what she was anxious about in her work was empowering women or reclaiming in her book sexual per sew nay that women had as femme fatals and that they shouldnt jettison that and it wasnt a negative thing. She was hostile at the concept of victim feminism which many other people have argued puts feminists in a bad light in emphasizing the negative aspect of womanhood. The question, you know, about earnings, that was also addressed in a great tv interview about women breaking into womens sports. So im very familiar with that question. And the idea that women still expect to be supported by men this some scenarios and yet want equal pay in others. Part of the problem there is that if a woman takes time out to have kids, if he doesnt get Maternity Leave or doesnt have Health Coverage and so forth, to what degree is a woman really compromised financially by giving birth or needing time for child care . And if she doesnt have a partner who can assist, thats one of the reasons why we find that women are more likely to live in poverty than men. Women who expected to be supported either emotionally or financially by a loving husband who are then abandoned need to go to work in a scenario where they will be paid wages that they can live on. Ask one of the reasons and one of the reasons, the 70s saw so much change, many women were being divorced and discovering suddenly without a husbands income they were very bad lu off, but they werent being offered fair wages if they entered the work force in their 30s and 40s. I would also add that a unique issue here, of course, is that we have a work callen da daughter that calendar thats built around the idea of one person working and a partner being at home. Now we expect everyone to work, so we have everyone out in the public sphere, Million Dollar houses and and nobodys in them. So concerns about whos taking care of the children. I understand where that comes from. We now have the ability for everyone to work out of the home again because of computers. You dont have to go out in the public sphere to be a businessman or woman. These are all changes that we look at in my classes. Theyre wonderful discussions. What does it mean that we now expect everybody to have a primary identity outside the home, and yet homes are more and more expensive, you know . If youre going to invest all that in a home, dont you want to be there some of the time . I ask the same question. I have a nice amount that im hardly ever apartment that im hardly ever in, and this winter ive within enjoying being in it in the cold weather and kind of looking around at my 1500 books and going, yeah, i live somewhere. I live at dupont circle, and im happy. Host mar emails in im an academic at marries college. What i want to ask, is there any sustained, actionable focus among feminists on behalf of women in prison . Guest yes. Terrific question. Hi to my two colleagues from grad school who were maris professors. I am fortunate to teach in a womens studies program, George Washington, chaired by Dan Moshenberg whose focus is women in prison or women in the prison system. We offer an excellent curriculum on this topic. I showed the film what i want my words to do to you in which eve especialliler teaches a writing class at bed forth hills prison in upstate, new york. My students addressed the subject of not only women as summits of violence, but women who are in prison for crimes or who have taken violent action. And they read a series of papers by women who have experienced living long term in prison. Much of that literature covers the way that women are either rewarded or punished with, you know, access to chair own kids their own kids, what to do with women who become mothers while behind bars, how we accommodate access to child rearing this those conditions. But we also examine the fact that many women are imprisoned because of intimate violence. They take the rap for a boyfriend, they fight back if theyre battered. They turn to prostitution because theyre addicted. And the other social ills were familiar with. So, yes, that is very much on my syllabus. Host dwhren reilly emails in mail chauvinism bad, female chauvinism good. I use up a significant part of my weekend watching this generally excellent tv show. This morning is pushing the limits of objectivity and honesty. This should not be the place for political propaganda. Thank you for your comments, sir. Appreciate that. And the next call for Bonnie Morris comes from annie in pilot hill, california. Caller this is a terrific show. Im to happy youre running it, and i love booktv. I grew up in the 70s, and it seemed like it was sort of the first era maybe when girls were asked what are you going to be when you grow up instead of just assuming that everybody was going to be a mother. And this kind of does hail back to a question you had earlier about katy perry and pink and some of the people that are in the entertainment industry. Im just wondering what your comment is, if you think theres progress in the fact that we have everything from now women can choose to be a professor or an astronaut or even, god forbid, you know, the star of a reality show where you, your job is to, basically, dress up and fight with a bunch of other women. Do you see that as that weve made progress, that now women can basically make choices like that, or [laughter] or do you see that as sort of backsliding . Guest well, thats a great question. Thank you very much. I do think weve had, weve made progress. I would say its very limited to a small section of the, you know, western world. I have traveled widely, and in much of the world women are living in very traditional villages, theyre subject to tribal law, theyre not permitted to advance in any profession, let alone get, you know, an education there. Primarily living agriculturally, doing very hard work in fields. Throughout china, many women are working in factories making our stuff. And the conditions for women vary from place to place. So what with we experience in terms of progress is, is a mask for the work that still needs to be done. But within, lets say, American Culture one of the predicaments we have is we valorize people based on how much money they earn. Something i resent bitterly because im infamously underpaid. I also would say that theres a sense that to be provocative is to gain be fame. So as long as people see that you can make money being controversial, we have hate radio, we have reality tv, we have women fighting each other in a public forum because it improve ratings or generate income. I dont know how much of that would go on if it wasnt compensated. So part of it is to what degree do people still look to become rich as a motivating factor . I never did, and, you know, im not. But i amish shoedriven i am issue driven, and i think a lot of girls as well as boys are pushed to identify with material gain and comfort, so that is going to affect the choices they headache in terms of how make in terms of how they can be rich and famous. Host Bonnie Morris, in your favorites list that we got from you that we ran at the break, you listed writing in your journalings. 668 of them. Are they ever going to be published . Guest well, i am crowd to show off the last journal, and i am ending this one, heres the last page, something ive always wanted to do. I amening my journal on i am ending my journal on national tv. I am starting the next one this night. Ive been keeping a journal since i was the. I dont know be theyll since i was 12. I dont know if theyll ever be published. My handwriting has gone awhoo. As i write on the keyboard more and more, my hand cant keep up with my thoughts, with the pen. I still use a fountain pen. I love feel of paper and the journal in my act and the physical act of writing and the fountain head gliding over the page. I dont want to lose that. Ive tried to write historically and write about what its like, you know, to be a lesbian in late 19th, 20th century america. Those accounts will be instructive to somebody someday. I do have an archive that has requested all hi papers, the Schlesinger Library at radcliffe, and theyre going to get all my journals and recordings in womens music culture, interviews and narratives and so on. Ive tried not to write anything unkind, and ive tried to be honest about my life. Host bonniejmorris. Com is her web site. Thank you for being with us on in depth. Guest thank you, sir. Cspan, created by americas Cable Companies in 197ed, brought to you as a Public Service by your television provider. Youre watching booktv. Coming up next, daniel flynn argues that doctors ask lawyers are pushing the idea that football is an overly dangerous sport to drum up business. He says that the conventional wisdom surrounding football totally wrong and that the sport, a rite of passage for millions of american boys, is being unfairly attacked. This is about an hour