Transcripts For CSPAN2 Highland Park Mayor Testifies On Access To Assault Weapons 20220721

Then we will hear about the impact they are having on affordable housing. This meeting of the Senate Judiciary committee will come to order. I think all of those in attendance so many from illinois and Highland Park area. Im sorry that we have together in this room for this purpose but i salute you for your civic commitment and commitment to sanity when it comes to the laws of the country. I want to show some pictures. You will recognize them. This is Aiden Mccarthy, 2yearsold. The morning of the fourth of july 16 days ago he and his parents went out to celebrate Independence Day as a family. They stopped by their hometown parade in Highland Park. Shortly after 10 14 a. M. , he lost both of his parents. It happened when a 21yearold gunman with a military style ar 15 rifle began shooting. Aidens father used his body as a shield to protect him. Kevin and aidens mother were killed by gunfire. When the shooting stopped, he was found wandering along with his fatherss blood on his leg. I first heard about this when i called the mayor and she talked about the little boy they were still trying to identify. This other photo is cooper roberts, 8yearsold. He was at the parade that day with his twin brother, parents and a bullet severed his spinal cord. We pray that he will recover. But for the time being, hes battling paralysis from the waist down and has undergone at least several surgeries as a of injuries including one to reclose a bullet wound in his esophagus. Coopers twin brother had to be treated for shrapnel wounds to one ofas his legs. My heart is broken for these little boys and their families and all the families that are mourning their loved ones into struggling to recover from this unspeakable act. Ourth nation was still reeling from the Mass Shootings in buffalo new york and utility texas when the hoarder came to Highland Park on the fourth of july. Eightythree rounds fired in less than 60 seconds. The gunmen perched himself on a rooftop and used a smith wesson semi automatic Assault Rifle of the a 15 variety and three of the 30 route highcapacity magazines to commit this massacre. He killed seven people. Their names are catherine goldstein, kevin and irena mccarthy, jacqueline, stephen strauss, nicholas and eduardo. Dozens more were injured and many are still hospitalized. Thousands experiencedto trauma that will be with them forever. The attack in Highland Park was the 309th mass shooting in americaou this year. There had been 47 more Mass Shootings since the fourth of july. This is a crushing number when you consider its reflection on life in america and its disgraceful that we have done so little to stop it. Too often, the weapons that are used for the military style assault weapons designed to kill large numbers of people in a matterha of seconds, our colleae into senator from illinois will speak to that issue with their own special personal knowledge of it. Id like to turn to a short video, one of which was turned loose onit Highland Park. Fired at the crowd and struck people at random. Similar to this one here, twice. The rampage comes ten days after another shooting massacre and in buffalo new york. This time at a church in california on sunday. At least three Mass Shootings in the country, 212 this year. You have to be 18yearsold to purchase an assault style rifle like the ar 15. The style of weapon used in many Mass Shootings including sandy hook las vegas and youve already. Waffle house, ar 15, buffalo, ar 15, orlando, parkland, aurora colorado, synagogue, tree of life synagogue, sutherlands brings, ar 15. Thats how fast someone can shoot 30 rounds, one magazine from an ar 15. Those bullets have around 3,000 feet per second. I am an emergency room doctor and i can tell you firsthand the damage is almost indescribable. It creates gaping holes and liquefies organs. You cant hunt and eat the deer afterwards. That is what the doctors and First Responders are facing when they are dealing with these mass shooting victims. They are weapons of war. Why dond we allow our citizens o have such easy access to weapons of war . This is the tenth hearing the Senate Judiciary committee has held this congress on how to reduce gun violence in america. The tenth. Today we will discuss the threat our communities face when civilians as young as 18 years of age have easy access to military style assault weapons with no legal requirement for training. How did we get to this point . Why are these killing machines flying off the shelves after they were banned for a decade until 2004. Maybe its the ads that market the assault weapons. Symbols of independence, freedom or the promise that owning the gun will make you more of a man or could it be the enticing prospect of toting around the same style of weapon soldiers and marines choose to defend. These are the Marketing Tactics used by gun manufacturers like bushmaster, daniel defense. Its time to name and shame these companies. Its a disgrace that theyve been shielded from accountability, even liability for the devastation thats been caused by their products. I called them out on the senate floor last week and i will do it again. These weapons are killing our kids and their neighbors. In america this land of the free you can no longer go to the Grocery Store, movie theater, fourth of july parade or send your kids to School Without fear ofen falling victim to another senseless mass shooting. I want those that have lost so much to gun violence to know that i hear you, i see you, i stand with you in this fight for change that goes beyond thoughts and prayers. The governor made a comment after the shooting in Highland Park that reflected the feelings all of us had. Heartbroken for the victims and families but furious that at the fourth off july parade it can turn into a killing field in the United States of america. I want to salute some progress. In the last few weeks we passed the most significant federal gun safety ball in nearly three decades. Weve also confirmed in atf director for the first time in seven years. Weve got to do more if we are serious about reducing gun violence we need to keep weapons of war where they belong. On the battlefield, in the Police Departments not in our communities. Today we have a distinguished panel of witnesses ready to make that case and i look forward to their testimony. Let me turn to senator grassley before recognizingto my colleag. For all of us it was a tragic day to hear about the recent shootings at Highland Park july 4th just like buffalo, you volte and other places throughout the country. Acts of violence have no place in our country, particularly on a day that we should be celebrating our community and solidarity as people. Our hearts break for victims of the families. As a father and grandfather, i cant imagine what youre going through. Sadly, we witnessed another shooting in indianapolis over the weekend. Thankfully, a lawfully Armed Civilian with firearms stopped the shooter before more harm couldd be done they flashed an asidentification card, illegally purchased five guns and four different transactions passing federal background checks each time. Yet, like several other mass shooters, the perpetrator showed numerous warning signs over the years and in previous contacts with police he attempted suicide. Ar a Family Member reported and iothreatened to, quote on quote, kill everyone in his collections of knives were seized yet he wasnt arrested and no red flags were implemented when he purchased the firearm. Illinois has some of the most restrictive gun control laws in the country, but that didnt stop these murders. A young man was showing obvious signs that he is considering violence but no one knew what the signs were, no one knew what his actions meant. No one interceded, no one stopped him. It would be easy to say that the system just failed, that the police should have done more. The family should have done more, but therest actually is something that would have made a difference. We have to educate the institutions and a persons life about the obvious signs of distress, signs that a person is heading towards mass violence. Schools in many states have implemented the threat assessment models, but more institutions including churches, workplaces want and need training. We need to take affirmative steps to legislation for the threat assessment and prevention services. A study of hundreds of mass shooting incidents conducted by two professors show similarities repeated over and over that are not always recognized. I know every member of the Committee Heard me talk about this would provide funding to insupport secret service nationl threat Assessment Centers it would also enable the Threat Assessment Center to train more of the nations schools and institutions. If we want to reduce these Mass Shootings we cant afford not to do it. We cant keep seeing shooter after shooter follow the same predictable path and then nobody does anything about it. It could be because they didnt know what they were looking at or they didnt know what to do. We have to fill the information gap with public information. Right now the national Threat Assessment Center cant afford to train everyone who wants this information. That has to change. I am pleading for that to change. I am not alone in these thoughts. Hcosponsored by my fellow senators, representing both Political Parties i will also submit a statement from the United States secret Service Association supporting this legislation. I know many colleagues on the other side of the aisle dont like guns. Some are not particularly impressed by the please let worry onesizefitsall well and hed their right to selfdefense. Ive spoken with many that are worried about the restrictions. Bothci were concerned about restrictions being imposed on the right to selfdefense. For those who see no need for an armed citizenry, the solution to Mass Shootings could include a ban on assault weapons. This has already been tried in the 90s and the early 2,000s. I didnt support them and these would be an effective and not consistent with the right of selfdefense. After ten years of assault weaponste ban, there was no statistically significant evidence that banning assault weapons reduce gun murders. We also know that restrictive gun control will hurt vulnerable communities that needed to defend themselves against the horrible spike in crime that began two years ago. According to the foundation, the primary trade association for the gun industry, gun sales during the first half of 2020 increased yearoveryear 52 for whites, 59 for africanamericans. 49 for hispanic. It will affect this new population of gun owners and i hope my colleagues know that im going to want to talk about solutions to keep americans safe. But these have to be Solutions Based on evidence that respect the need for selfdefense. If there are bipartisan things we can do and i hope that the act will be one of them. And i hope that will be very soon. And i will yield back. Thank you, senator grassley. I want to acknowledge and im sure im going to miss someone in this incredible turnout on behalf of Highland Park, lake county and illinois, but i want to acknowledge the presence of the state presented if morgan and the sheriff, the states attorney from lake county, Daniel Shapiro that i read a little earlier, sandy hart, the board chair and catherine, i hope i get close to pronouncing your name correctly. We will have to Opening Statements and then another from senator cornyn and i i will recognize senator duckworth. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member grassley, thank you for holding todays important hearing they found the 2yearold aidan Aiden Mccarthy lying bloodied and pinned and after the deadly shooting in Highland Parks fourth of july parade. Just a toddler, he somehow lost one shoe and was down to one bloodsoaked sock as he kept asking for his mom and dad. Tragically we learned among those murdered what has become a uniquely american phenomenon. Mass murderers to inflict death upon innocent americans. My constituents and yours as well were eager to celebrate americaa at her best. Instead, they joined a rapidly growing number of victims have experienced our nation at her worst. I still cant get the image of the blood he saw out of my mind. Im unable to stop thinking about what his future holds now or with the thoughts might have been when they shielded their son from bullets raining down with their own bodies and that is why im here this morning. I refuse to let my colleagues know how a weapon of war for every change this little boys life and the lives of so many others and as a mom raising two little girls attending school, i refuse to do nothing in the face of a deadly epidemic of gunny violence that is the leading cause of death among americans. Let me say that now. Of the leading cause of death under the age of 16 in this country isnt cancer or car accidents. Its gun violence. Only in america. Im urging the committee to demonstrate the courage and supporting the ban on assault weapons and largegu capacity magazines. Amer we cant stop every mass shooting. The Ranking Member spoke about identifying those with Mental Health issues andga i agree we should do all that. There are predictable steps and that is part of it, but part of those predictable steps also includes in the recent years the purchasing were the building of assault weapons. In 2004 the Ranking Member quoted the statistics there had been no significant change as of 2004. However, since the ban was allowed to expire, Mass Shootings in the country have tripled. The data shows that Mass Shootings in the nation has tripled since the assaultha weapons ban was allowed to expire. Now i want to be clear. Restoring the ban would not prevent from continuing toul access more than 2,000 models of powerful hunting rifles. We are not talking about the or30s, no one is going to grab this to go and conduct a mass shooting. They are grabbing ar 15s for the lower assemblies and building their own weapons of war. It wont stop a parent from teaching their child to shoot with a 2022 like my dad did when i was 7yearsold. I grew up shooting and enjoyed going to the range. It shouldnt outweigh the right toto life to live free from assault weapons. My focus that eugene designed to meet the requirements using combat when he designed the ar 15 it was then adopted by the military to become the ar 15 members adopted byde the army to become the m16 that i carried as my weapon of war for my 23 years as a soldier. Large capacity magazines also need to be banned. These are the items that are stealing the rate. The rifle 15 and the semiauto are weapons of war the rate of fire, ability to penetrate certain body armor and the ease of loading both the military issued and a civilian ar 15 are functionally similar and designed for combat. The lack of the mechanism doesnt meaningfully reduce the lithology compared. Where theres a soldier engaging the enemy in combat or an untrained mass murder hunting children in a school, any shooter looking to efficiently kill multiple people without wasting ammunition a will prefea semi auto rifle with a large capacity magazine that enables rapid reloading. Its as quickly as you can pull the trigger it is a new round. Every senator on the committee should study what happens to a body when struck at a speed of greater than 3,000 feet per second. As that emergency room doctor said, it liquefies your organs. You have no chance of survival. You should see emergency room doctors that can show you what happens and exploding tissues and destroying those organs. Its one thing to read in order. Have you reflected on why they had to submit to dna tests to identify the murdered children . Have you imagine how it would feel when authorities told you that you could not view the body of your murdered child, of your baby because there was nothing left that you could use to visuallyhe identify them and please could you submit some dna. I begeg you to question your assumptions about whether weaponry designed for war should be marketed and sold to civilians. What ima asking the committee o do is not easy, but our childrens lives are worth the fight. We sporting an oath to defend the constitution that was established to ensure the tranquility to promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and for future generations. Selling the kid for the lower part manufacturers taking advantage and making a profit on dead babies. Nicholas, eduardo and irena and Kevin Mccarthy for the countless americans that were nowhere near Highland Park but will now think twice before bringing their child to a hometown july 4th tlparade or the millions of students like my baby girl who i recently witnessed taking part an active shooters drill. I was at her school to talk about memorial day with her sisters class. I looked through the window and saw the line of preschoolers walking down the hallway and i watched and my heart broke as i watched as my little girl was taught to crouch down with her head against a wall covering her head with her hands in their secure location, knowing full well that a shooter within ar 15 coming in their she wouldnt have a chance no matter what position. Americas heartbreaking new normal that we routinely ingrained in our children the traumatizing fear that up any day and at any moment they could be gunned down in their classroom shouldnt be acceptable to anyone of us. We dont have to live this way. We can still hunt and have an armed citizenry. We can still go to the range and take our kids out and teach them target practice. We can do allan of that without weapons of war to be available. Im ready to restore the assault weapons ban and i beg every member of the committee please for the sake of all ofg our babies, join me in this effort. Thank you and i will yield back. Thank you. I know you have other things to attend to and your testimony today is particularly impactful particularly with the audience here and our constituents. Senator cornyn. Thank you mr. Chairman. I am proud of the fact that the United States Congress Responded to the voices of people across a america following the recent shooting in ufology texas who said do something. I believe doing nothing would be a dishonor to those who wanted us to do something to deal with incidences like a curtain you volley and numerous other places bearound the country. Along with senator tillis i was one of the principled negotiators with senator cinema, senator murphy of the bipartisan Safer Communities act. I always said that the test of the legislation will be will it save lives and i believe it will. That should be the test of any legislative action we take. In addition to focusing on the profile of some of the alienated young men who lash out not only committing suicide themselves but taking the lives of others, we try to figure out how to get at people who are suffering from Mental Health crisis who none of us believe should have access to firearms under current law. As someone with a Mental Health and adjudication cannot pass a background check. Or keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. I believe the Second Amendment and good Public Policy are not mutually exclusive and thats what we tried to do in the bipartisan Safer Communities act. We also made the single largest investment in communitybased Mental Health care in american history. Something that i believe will save more young people going through a Mental Health crisis giving them access to treatment, counseling, medication, whatever it takes to help them live productivehe lives. I dont think any parent should have to send their child to school worried for their safety. I dont think any child should have to go to school worried about their safety. So im proud of the work weve done and proud of the work we have done before thatt in improving the background check system following the sutherland shooting. But one thing i am not willing to do is erode the Constitutional Rights of lawabiding citizens. Lawabiding citizens are not going to commit these acts or crimes. They are not going to be suffering from a Mental Health crisis and lash out and be a danger to themselves and others. So i wonder about the focus on the firearm as an inanimate object. It wont cause harm to anyone. What does matter is a person possessing that firearm and certainly our focus has been keeping them out of the hands of people with criminal records and people with Mental Health problems. One of the things i worry about is the focus on the firearm that weve heard so far deflects our attention from other places where i think we could make a substantial difference. Things like focusing on the criminals thatt committed 836 homicides last year in chicago alone. This came in the wake of the defined the Police Movement and the fergusonon affect where Law Enforcement officers were blamed as opposed to the criminals that committed violent and illegal acts. I dont hear any commentary about the 108,000 americans who died of drug overdoses last year alone. All those drugs come across the southern border. Virtually all the drugs come across the southern border yet we have an open border. Cartels figured out howl to fld the zone with migrants and divert the attention, deflect to Law Enforcement officers while the drugs flow across and it is the criminal gangs in cities across america that commit most of the acts of violence using guns protecting the market share and territory lashing out and killing innocent people. So i think as horrific as these incidences are, one of the lessons of what happened in Highland Park is the strict gun laws in the nation didnt prevent this act and i think if we focus just on the instrumentality come on the tol on the inanimate object and divert our attention from these other contributing factors to these terrible crimes and terrible acts that we are missing a possible solution to the problem. And i would finally close, mr. Chairman. Thank you for your generous generosity letting me make the statement. Its not lost on me that in Sutherland Springs this is a Baptist Church out of san antonio,ta my hometown 2017 somebody disqualified from being able to buy a o firearm was able to buy one because the United States air force didnt upload that information in the backgroundsq check system. But the person who saved lives that day was a man named stephen, a shooting instructor who took his ar 15 from his gun safe when he heard a shooting at the Sutherland Springs and went down there and stopped the shooter. We saw that happen again in indiana where a Good Samaritan wasn able to limit the damage e shooter was able to cause because these are lawabiding citizens exercising their Second Amendment rights. So i worry that if our focus is simply on the instrumentality, on the firearm itself and in inanimate object as a detriment to these other contributing factors that we will have missed the point. Maybe we will have stayed on our talking points, but it will not allow us to reduce the carnage that we are seeing in cities across the country and regions across the United States. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you. The first panel of witnesses we will welcome to the table and justst a moment. We have five minutes of testimony from each and then there will be open questions from the committee and fiveminute rounds. So i ask if the witness is on the first panel would all approach the table if you could stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the testimony youre about to give before the committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god . Let the record reflect the witnesses answered in the affirmative. I will introduce the majority witnesses into senator grassleyy will introduce the minority witnesses. The first witness is the mayor of Highland Park. She served as the chief executive of her city since 2011. She was at the Highland Park fourth of july parade when the community was attacked. Shes worked tirelessly to help coordinate the response and recovery to console grieving families and help the community recover. Years earlier she led efforts to pass a municipal ordinance banning assault weapons in Highland Park and in ordinance that was upheld by the Circuit Court of appeals. Thanks for being with us. The senior political scientist at the Rand Corporation previously served as the director of the Strategy Center of the u. S. Air force academy and as associate director of the institute for future conflict and a professor of military and strategic studies a marine corps combat veteran with multiple deployments in iraq a and afghanistan and as a super cobra attack pilot. Thank you for your service to america and we are glad to have you. Joseph is a professor and codirector of the center for firearms law at Duke University school of law. Taught at duke since 2009 and the scholarship focuses on the issues of gun rights and regulations. Before joining the faculty he clerked for the Second Circuit and practiced law where he assisted with the merits briefing for the district of columbia and now i will turn to senator grassley to introduce his witnesses. I wanted to tell you that at 11 i have time to speak on the floor and i will ask my questions later on. Russell is a Senior Analyst with Safe Haven International, the Worlds Largest nonprofit k12 safety center. He has over 20 years of Law Enforcement experience with 15 years in executive positions within Campus Police agencies. Heha is a 2001 graduate of the i National Academy and contributing authorpu to the textbook extreme violence understanding and protecting people from active assailants hate crimes and terrorist attacks. I thank you for being with us and my next person to introduce is philip smith, founder and president of the national africanamerican gun association, a group that he created in 2015 with a mission of educating and training africanamericans and Firearm Safety sportsmanship and lawful defensive firearm use. Is a 48,000ion active members. Its a Strong Organization with 127 chapters located throughout 39 states and the district of columbia. Welcome to you. Thank you senator grassley. We will recognize the first witness. Good morning chairman durbin, toRanking Member grassley and distinguished members of the Senate Judiciary committee. Thank you for inviting me to discuss today how to stop Mass Shootings. My name is nancy and im them mayor of Highland Park illinois and all midwestern towns i was at the Highland Park fourth of july. Shooting and i will be haunted forever. Before i tell you my story i want to recognize the berries hepolice and fire personnel that ran directly into danger to save lives. They did everything right. They were actively caught the shooter within hours and they are with true american heroes look like. It was a perfect summer day. The excitement of 3,000 parade goers was palpable especially since this is the first parade in two years post pandemic. Festive floats, a sea of children and adults in red, white and blue waving american flags. At 10 a. M. My counseling and i kicked off our parade with music and a cheering were all we could hear as we headed down the street. I looked left and waved to my husband and the crowd. What i didnt know at that ncmoment is that the just to my right on a onestory rooftop a 21yearold was preparing to traumatize d my hometown forever with an assault weapon. Shortly after, after we proceeded down the road i turned to my colleagues and questioned why the marching band stopped playing music and was only playing a drum cadence. I then saw a sea of marching band members running down the sidewalk some with a tuba still around their bodies. I realized later the sound i heard wasnt drums. It was the sound of an assault weapon. My cell phone buzzed and a shooter on the roof of a local store shot at dozens of rounds intola the parade crowd. Fire and Police Vehicles were roaring towards us. We pivoted and started emergency evacuations. We were screaming run, shooter. Adults stood back not comprehending but the kids knew immediately this wasnt a drill and yelled to everybody run and hide. They knew what was happening. Grandparents ran for cover, toddlers were placed in dumpsters and the bodies of those who were hit were scattered on the ground. We now know the 22yearold Cassie Goldstein told her mom to run but she was hit in the chest and cassie had to tell her mother she loved her but couldnt stop because bullets were still flying. She kept running to safety hiding behind a garbage can and when the shooting stopped, she returned to find her mother lifeless. Local doctors and volunteer Community Emergency Response Teams covered the dead and tended to the wounded as paramedicshe arrived. Ss the shooter was still at large. A photo of a toddler clutching a blanket was on my phone. Whose child was this. People were hiding wondering why nobody was looking for this missing child. Later we learned it was the 2yearold with a dried blood on hiss legs and his tiger sneaker. Hed been found under his fathers body and carried to safety. No one was frantically looking for him because his mother and father had been murdered at the parade. The governor and i attended the funerals and we heard about jackies son and ed bardo missing his 70th birthday just four days later on july 8th. We heard how hot a shrapnel melted into the arms and legs of his relatives. His widow asked was he unconscious, was he alone and the response was no the Police Commander to do cpr and stayed with him the entire time. Nicholas is grandchildren attendedst his funeral, gunshot victims themselves. Thee impact of the gunfire of their grandfather required a closed casket. Sitting with him at the parade they experienced firsthand the this ammunition with this velocity when hitting a human head. The doctor left the hospital immediately after her own major surgery to be with her 8yearold son whos a shredded esophagus, livers and spinal cd continued to threaten his life. His twin brother was shot in the leg. A 3yearold daughter was handed to strangers while liz was rushed to the hospital because a bullet pierced her pelvis. She mayz never walk unassisted again. Less than a minute is all it took for a person with an assault weapon to shoot 83 rounds into a crowd forever changing so many lives and the most disturbing part, this is the norm in our country. Highland park had a uniquely American Experience on the fourth of july. Turned intove what is now a uniquely American Experience of a mass shooting. How do we callgh this freedom lacks other advanced nations live free of gun violence and we know that Mental Health issues exist everywhere inex the world. American mayors, and ive talked to several the past weeks fear not if but when a mass shooting is going to hit our towns. Whats different about the u. S. . The u. S. Has access to assault weapons into large capacity magazines. That is the only differentiating factor. In 2013 in the wake of sandy hook as a city we band assault weapons and large capacity magazines. Ne we knew a federal ban would be the most effective but a local band reflecting the values of the communities was the only option under the law. Local governments cannot do this alone. Congresse must take action. You must federally ban assault weapons and large capacity magazines. Today is the day to start saving lives. Thank you. Thank you. Would you check your microphone, sir . German durbin, Ranking Member grassley and other members of the committee, i appreciate your concerns for School Safety and im grateful to have an opportunity to do my best to try to assist you in your efforts. My name is Russell Bentley and im here on behalf of the Worlds Largest k12 Safe Haven International inc. Safe havens is a nonprofit and nonpartisan Nongovernmental Organization working in 50 states. U. S. Territories and over two dozen countries with a goal of helping to make school safe wherever students happen to live and attend school. Theyve assisted the u. S. Department of education, justice, Homeland Security and provided assistance to school a safety efforts with president george bush junior and barack obama as well as agencies in canada and israel, poland, vietnam and trinidad. To make schools safer for students and those who dedicate their lives educating them. Id been a fulltime School Safety practitioner for more than 32 years and have worked in k12 school districts, faithbased charter and independent f schools in over 30 states. My main message for you today is while there are many things that cance schools safer i would like to see greater access to and utilization of the immense excellent and unparalleled resources that haveans been developed by a host of federal Government Agencies over the past three decades. The u. S. Department of education, justice, Homeland Security, the United States secret service, the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and fire, the federal Law Enforcement training center, u. S. Department of Homeland Security, cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency and others that the department has worked tirelessly to develop what i feel are superior resources and programs available at no cost to the nations schools. However, during the School Safety security climate culture assessments are more than 8500 k12 schools and our official post incident assistance for 23 active assailant and targeted shooters in k12 schools we found Many School Districts and not Public Schools still lack extremely effective and important provincial measures. One in particular is my experience with assessment and management. Working with schools social workers in the early 19 90s i wass a deputy chief of School Police and our department developed what is likely the first multiple Disciplinary Threat Assessment Team which helped evert tragedies including a middle school bombing. The Student Intervention Team with School Social workers and District Police working out of patrol cars and each team. Since that time multiple federal agencies and experts from various sectors have mudramatically. Unlike many other approaches, the threatag assessment regardls the type of weapons, views, the plaintiff date, the location of the attack they help protect students and School Employees in classrooms, lunchrooms, media centers, school grounds, buses and events. While there are many other things that can and do make our nations schools safer, i would urge you to do what you can to enable the Threat Assessment Center of the secret service to build upon this incredibly important bodyr, of knowledge. To the dedicated men and women at the center to improve our ability to prevent the planned school violence. Thank you for your service to the nation and allowing me to share my thoughts with you today. Ranking member grassley and members of the committee thank you for the invitation to testify today. Beforere i begin i want to recognize the residents of Highland Park who are here with usra in the audience and as a combat veteran, acknowledging that the sounds and images you may have heard would have been very troubling in the recent experience, and i thank you for your bravery. We owe it to the victims of gun violence, their families and the American People to ensure the gun violence prevention policy is based on objective facts. Actionable solutions only come when we are willing to take a clear look at the state of the science and that includes the role of assault weapons commonly called modern rifles and mass tshootings. Today i will present to you what is known about these weapons and the role in mass shooting events so that you can make informed policy decisions that will keep our Community Safer. I will do this by addressing three points. First, they have an outside impact on injury and death. Second i will share what we know and can logically infer about the efficacy of assault weapons bans and third i will discuss why it is essential to ensure access to quality research. Assault weapons have an impact on injury and death and thankfully these weapons are used in a minority of the firearm homicides. However they are disproportionately used in Mass Shootings particularly public which the fbies has shown rose y 50 from 20222021. When an assault weapon is used in onert of the shootings, there is more than 14 times more injuries and twice as many deaths than any other type of weapon used. Its because these were designed to kill as many people as quickly as possible. Of this weapon has been used by servicemembers and conflicts at the vietnam. I use them as a marine. And as a service weapon, they have several advantages. They are lighter weight, they are shorter, they have lighter bullets,s, they can shoot more bullets more quickly and they are designed to do damage to the human body. And even shoot through a standard issued military helmet. In short it is a Great Service weapon. Indeed the very design of the firearm and the benefits that it brings to the intended purpose may be responsible for the impact on injury and death in Mass Shootings. Second, whathe does research and logic tell us . Studies onn the impact of previous federal or current assault weapon policies are few. So its important that we use logical deductions to consider carefully the impactsf of the bands. There is little evidence of the ban onon assault weapons reducig the overall incidence of crime, knowing that they do result in larger levels of injury and death given that we know this we ercan infer that they will significantly reduce the numbers of injuries and deaths. Others states and localities to include Highland Park which has an assault weapon ban limited in their ability to protect theirle community. There are no hard borders between cities and states and with the limited trace data shows thehe weapon flows from areas of more permissive walls to areas of more restrictive. Finally, the fact that we have limited scholarship ons the efficacy shouldnt be taken to mean that the policies do not reduce injuries and death, but that there is little available research. And a portion of this can be tracked to the lack of federal investment and inability of researchers to access essential hidata. The effort to prevent research on the topic has resulted with a lackst of understanding and discussions that devolve into pg points rather than a meaningful discussion ofre the facts. Between 1997 and a 2019 federal funding on gun violencelv Prevention Research over the 20 year funding theyve put gun policy science far behind all of the other complex issues that we have evidencebased solutions for. Theyve called for the laws that target prosecuting felons trying to buy itof illegal guns and we know that oneme in three mass shooters are committed by an individual that its prohibited from purchasing a firearm. Yet as researchers we are unable to use trace data to study patterns and trends. I we know this increases injury and death and if theres a decision to act, states and localities may be challenged to act on their own and we know the best way to make good policies to havers Good Research and prohibitions on the research continue to cost lives. My name is Philip T Smith and im honored to testify today as the president of a Firearms Organization this is a needed National Conversation regarding firearms, and i appreciate the opportunity to be a part of it. A little bit about myself. Born and raised in california and graduated from the university of california davis. Married to my lovely wife of 20 plus years and have three kids. And im a proud member of my fraternity. I am the president and founder of the national africanamerican d gun association. We are the largest black Firearms Organization in the history of the United States and have a total of 48,000 with 120n chapters and members in every state. We are a pro constitutional carry a and pro black Firearms Organization with no apologies. Weve grown tremendously with a diverse space you name it and we have that person within our organization. Especially significant is the surge of black women joining. And they are coming in large numbers. Currently they are the Fastest Group in the United States and i am proud to say they are the backbone of the national gun association. Never before have this many people in the United States had guns. Its estimated that at least 14 million currently have firearms in their homes. What is happening is that our community has awoken and we are taking steps to protect ourselves legally. , today at this hearing, i am representing the millions of blacks people in this country, past and present, that have been unable to seize the opportunity to protect themselves through Second Amendment. I will be their voice. I will be there defender. The history of black americans in the country is well documented with slavery being a social and legal burden that we have to fight. About what is and as well known as were the black coats starting in 1865 that prevented black folkss from owning any type of firearm in their possession. If a black person was caught with a gun they could be killed, no questions asked on the spot. The goal was to keep the community under control and defenseless. Today in 2022, restricting citizens from purchasing firearms has the same affect as the black 65. The end result is people especially white folks unable to secure a gun but to leave them vulnerable. To me that is unacceptable and unamerican. As the decision affirmed focusing on banning rivals like unthe ar 15 is an exercise in futility. Its in direct conflict with the Second Amendment that robss us f our right to use the best tools available to1 defend ourselves and only result in those that have access toir the money and privilege of private security and the means to defend themselves. This information is incredible. About public figures making a statement that have no truth or facts about the firearm let me demystify right now so we all can be on the same page. The ar 15 is not a fully automatic machine gun like the m16 used by the military. It is a semi automatic rifle. In other words, you pull the trigger once and only one bullet comes out. Just like a pistol and a shotgun. Studies have already shown the previous ban and bad people with bad intent to still have guns to cause harm to the most vulnerable americans. You cant pass laws to solve the human condition. We must look at the root cause and that requires tough Uncomfortable Conversations within v the nation. Thank you for allowing me to address the Committee End of the serious subject matter in the country today. Thank you, mr. Smith. Chairman durbin and Ranking Member grassley, distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I am the professor of law at Duke Law School where i also codirected the center for firearms, law and im testifying here today purely on my individual capacity. As the Committee Considers the laws and policies to keep americans safe from the risk and reality of devastating Mass Shootings like what happened in Highland Park on july 4th, it does so in the wake of the recent decision in new yorks state rifle and pistol association. Shthat case announced a new legl test governing the constitutional challenges to any new gun laws that congress or states may pass as well as the laws already on the books including Highland Parks municipal assault weapons bans that survives an earlier Second Amendment challenge. How the test is applied will have a Significant Impact on efforts to protect Public Safety and it is therefore critically important that the committee and the American People understand the new judicial framework in my brief remarks i want to focus on two points in particular. First is the Justice Thomas majority opinion adopts a new test for evaluating the constitutionality of gun laws under the Second Amendment. According to the court the constitutionality of modern firearms regulations designed to address contemporary realworld problems will now depend solely on whether they are in some sense consistent with historical tradition and not on whether they are effective in preventing serious harm. Properly applied, such a test should still uphold most modern gun laws because regulation of Deadly Weapons is part of the common law tradition since before the nations founding. Historians have written volumes on the topic into the duke and r for firearms posts the gun laws which have more than 1500 illustrative historical regulations. But the courts new test does open the door to an enormous amount of judicial discretion because the court has done little to explain how we are supposed to determine whether a modern law is relevantly similar to a historical one. Days after the decision a case was filed here in dc challenging the prohibition on guns and the metro. O. Is the metro relevantly similar to the medieval fairs and markets where the weapons were heavily regulated. Similar questions will arise to any member of Second Amendment cases or the ar 15s weve beenp discussing relatively similar to the muskets. The domestic abusers prohibited under federal law today relevantly similar to groups that were designed at the founding. Mr. Smith spoke of another historical record which is the prior generations disarm those that refuse to take loyalty oath. Be drawing analogies between that historical record and contemporary challenges will involve a great deal of judicial discretion and defining the scope of the inquiry and choosing historical comparators. It introduces substantial uncertainty and will make the content of the Second Amendment law even more obscure to the hundreds of millions of people whose lives are governed by it. My second point is that despite its methodological weakness it doesnt mean the end of gun safety legislation. The majority emphasized thatd it was only striking down new yorks law and in fact specifically approved alternative forms of licensing for concealed carry but provideo more objective criteria for licenses. Concurring opinions by the justices alito and cavanaugh and the latter by chief Justice Roberts emphasized properly interpreted the Second Amendment allows a potentially wide variety of gun regulations. In evaluating whether those laws are analogous to modern ones, courts will havee to ask whether they are relevantly similar, especially with respect to how and why they burden peoples ability to have guns and to determine whether something is relevantly similar and not only permits but requires the kind of contemporary evidence that this committee isto considering toda. It is simply impossible as a matter of law or logic to comparend the laws to historicad ones without evidence about the former. The decision is problematic and disruptive to the constitutional law but it isnt the end of evidence based gun policy or the important work of the committee. Senator cornyn, earlier you said the Second Amendment and Public Policy are not exclusive. That is true and remains true. Thank you and i look forward to your questions. Thank you. The gun lobby often claims the best way to stop mass shooters is to have lots of people to carry guns. So, bystanders can engage and shoot themro as well. Of course that approach is good for the gun lobbys goal of selling more guns. Rsthe New York Times recently looked at 433 active shooter attacks since the year 2,000 to see how many times bystanders stopped a a mass shooter. It happened 22 times out of the Mass Shootings about 5 . A bystander that happened to be a Security Guard or offduty Police Officer, so it can happel though it is pretty rare statistically and we must remember many states have concealed carry or open carry with no requirement of trainingy whatsoever. My question to you is how much can we count on a good guy with a gun to stop a mass shooter when the mass shooter has an ar 15 style assault weapon that can empty a 30 round magazine and about as many seconds . The guy with the gun would have no impact on the shooter. Weve heard from hundreds of parade goers and they all had hundreds of explanations of where the shooting had come from. They could not identify even where the shooter was, the area where this took place. There were bullets ricocheting off walls,om there was a courtyd and we had good guys with guns on site who are trained and got therewe within seconds. It was just too hard to see where he was. We also knew that the weapons and the bullets could pierce fests. I knew the fact that we had less than a minute should tell anybody who thought a good guy withco a gun would have an impa. The only thing that would have happened would be more chaos, more carnage. It would have been people shooting all over the place. That would have been a disaster in Highland Park. Because it was so quick they got there within seconds but again, hundreds of people had hundreds of explanations. The husband was right there and thought the shooter had been on the street. He was right in the middle of it all. Everyone gave a different story. You read the opinion and i have as well. What does it say about potentially banning assault weapons and requiring official training in the weapon before you can own one . Nothing directly. The court is clear thatat its ruling only on the legality of the public carry restrictions like the one that new york had in place and others. The majority of the concurring opinions are very clear the Second Amendment still permits various forms involving certain kinds of arms. The question Going Forward will be about the historical analogs and the lead up to the prohibition on assault weapons and highcapacity magazines had been universally upheld in the federal courts. There were some lower courts and the Panel Opinion that called them into question. Now i think the litigation will be about whether the assault weapons constitute the kind of dangerous and unusual weapons which the court in heller emphasized can be prohibited consistent in the Second Amendment andnd i suspect that s where most of the litigation will be end of the evidence is pertinent on that question. Let me stick with the object argument that weve heard. Its just a piece of material weaponry. I wonder howe that logic applis to grenade launchers. We dont allow those to be legally sold. They are just an inanimate objects. In holding the trigger continues to fire round after round. Can you describe whether you think theres an analogy . I think weapons and firearms in particular intensify violence and research has shown us that. Doctor hunter has spoken to this earlier that certain types of restrictions may not lessen the number of criminal incidences, but what they do is intensify the violence inflicted. Thats thehe nature of the instrument and why some people want them for selfdefense and some criminals want them for criminal use. So there isnt much to the idea that the instrument alone is inert. The question is what happens with that instrument in various situations whether it is being put to good use or bad. Thank you. Thank you mr. Chairman. Senator cornyn just returned. Senator cornyn. Thank you mr. Chairman. Mr. Smith, you talked about the increase in the number of africanamericans who purchased firearms including africanamerican women. In the recent past what do you attribute that to flex. The one overriding thing that im seeing from the organization is i they feel they need to protect themselves. If someone breaks into their home at 2 00 in the morning and they dont have the time to tell the robber someones breaking in, hold on wait a second let e call the police. They have to be able to deal with it right then and there and thats what they arern doing. Being very selfreliant and purchasing firearms. Where do you live . Outside of atlanta georgia. Okay. Are you familiar with the fact that a last year ella there were 836 homicides . Do you know if it is by criminal street gangs . I talked about this many times and many conversations. If we are serious about the health and we are talking about poor black and brown folks, to get them jobs, take away super incarceration of them out in earlier age where they have two or three companies by the time they are 23 and 24 years of age, give them the abilityaw to go ot and secure employment. They are doing with anyone else would do if you cant find a job they were to sell drugs, beat people up, doing whatever it takes to take care of those babies they have at home. But we have to as a country do something other than say they are bad just throw them in jail. My personal belief im not a scholar like some of the folks on the table, but im a black man 63 years of age in the country for a long time and to give folks employment if you give them a reason to buy into the American Dream like all of us have been able to do to be certain extent in this room, you will see dramatic changes in peoples behaviors and what they believe and what they dont believe in. Thank you for your explanation of what an Assault Rifle is in reality. Its a semi automatic rifle. Is it the only type of automatic rifle on the market . Theres a multitude of guns. Theres so many manufacturers out there building guns you have a lot of choices. One thing i wanted to point out when you pull the trigger its no different only one bullet comes out. Thats the important point because a lot of people are under the impression that its an automatic weapon, for example. In terms of the mechanism by which a semi automatic rifle works is itt in principle any different from a semi i automatc pistol or other semi automatic weapon . Some of these are pretty even in terms of im not a gunsmith or person that puts together guns but when you buy a pistol are you buying a shotgun the mechanism is relatively the same. One will produce one bullet coming out of that particular gun. So, if congress were to take up the suggestion of banning assault weapons, semi automatic weapons, is there any reason in principle whye that same would not apply to other types of firearms . I will say this and i appreciate the question. Gun rights and gun violence are two separate conversations and events. We merge the two and if you refuse to look at the nuances if we are serious about helping folks stop looking at restriction after restriction after restriction, law after law its obvious you can have 100 and i can fill the room up with a whole bunchop of folks that thats my position but we need to look at what is going to solve the issue and that is looking at0 the human condition and that is what we are failing to do in the room right now. People are hurting and scared and people are in trouble. Youre familiar that 60 of the gun deaths in america are suicides. Are you aware of that . Yes, i am. For me this is a very emotional hearing. May 15th, an 18yearold killed ten people in a Grocery Store in buffalo new york using an assault weapon. A week later and 18yearold killed 19 children and two teachers at an Elementary School in ufology texas using an assault weapon. On the fourth of july, a 21yearold killed seven people and injured dozens more at a Community Parade in Highland Park illinois using an assault weapon. D and just this past weekend, a 20yearold killed three people and injured two others at a Shopping Mall in greenwood Indiana Using an assault weapon. The 41 People Killed in these shootings in just the past two months, think about that. They would all still be with us today if it were not for the easy access to people and particularly young people have two assault weapons. I alsoea believe it is congress job to make sure we are safe going to the Grocery Store, school, parades and Shopping Malls. And that safety is not happening. I believe the solution is simple. We must ban assault weapons. They are assault weapons of war. They have no place in our communities. The federal assault weapons ban was in place from 1994 to 2004. A 2016 study showed that during the time, the number of gun massacres fell by 37 , and the number of people dying from gun massacres fell by 43 . In the ten years after the van, there was a 183 increase in massacres and 239 increase in massacres deaths. So its clear that the assault weapons ban helped make our Community Safer and i strongly believe that we must pass it again. How do assault weapons differ from other types of firearms, and do you believe the ban on assault weapons would be effective . Thank you for the question. As a native californian, it is great to see you as well. So, when we talk about these weapons, there is a lot of discussion around semi automatic versus automatic. Between different weapons, shotguns, one bullet comes out, different kind of round, very different. If we start just to their, theres quite a bit of medical research that shows that the combination of the 2234556 round a lot of this does come from the medical community as well in combination with the weapons they do an incredible amount of damage to the human body and that is what they were designedit to do. That is substantially different than aan 9millimeter around tht was designed for a clean entry killed type wound as opposed to designed to not just kill but also disabling to disarm and if you injure someone having a far greater extent for injury which is good for combat, but we are seeing it happen here. Theresgr also some substantial differences just the size and creation of the rifle. It was designed to be lighter. If we look at the m16 as opposed to the Previous Service weapon, there is a 3pound differential so this is a lighter and more maneuverable weapon than a several of the others that you might see. So i think its important that when we talk about weapons, we talk about more than just whether they are semi automatic or fully automatic because the caliber, the velocity, the maneuverability, all of these are characteristics of the weapons that are important as well. Thank you. I authored the assault weapons eslegislation and have introducd legislation for this session. I also, following the tragic attack in buffalo, a bill called the age 21 act alongside some of my Senate Colleagues including several members of this committee. This would prohibit the sale of assault style weapons and highcapacity magazines to anyone under the age of 21. If you cant buy a handgun you shouldnt be able to buy an assault weapon. Doctor hunter you believe prohibiting the sale of assault weapons to individuals who were under the age of 21 what help protect our communities from gun violence. There isnt a whole lot of research around age restrictions but continued with the evidence does show was, these weapons would use did not shooting created disproportionate number of injuries and deaths that we have and speaking from this high when they show up and mash. Theres more injuries than death. Thank you, senator. Im sorry senator grassley is returning i went to the senate floor and i could get my speech so i came back here. To the secret service useful to do as well and whether school replaces wardship or other ercommunity organizations seemso me a step we ought to take his behavioral threat assessment the best method to identify mobilizing towards violence and intercede before a violent act is committed . The process of behavior threat assessment coupled with training and security measures help provide safer schools, places of worship if the couple together with fidelity. Individuals educated in that process. Behavioral set assessment for you again are utilized for schools workplaces, several Society Organization for the folks closest to the person moving towards violence can recognize the signs if appropriate involve Law Enforcement. There are some who dont believe we should be involving Law Enforcement with aen person whos getting closerin and closer to violence. You believe that organizations and permit behavioral or threat assessment programs and have. Access to implement such programs. Thats one of the things im here for. A number of the schools and organizations places of worship that we work with are getting the good information that is out there that would enable them to better recognize and form individuals who are in positions to make decisions about situations that are occurring better education of School Employees of superintendent down to the individuals that are working in line with the beneficial and providing safe and more secure learning environment. Mr. Smith youroo organization filed the newark rifle association, in that case you cited disciplinary age, disciplinary. You cited discriminatory and racial motivation behind gun control policies. Can you tell me how gun control policies like fans on semi automatic rifles and magazine restrictions and some members of the organization. Or give you a great example. Often times in my organization with 48000 members very robust and very active. Often times ill get an email from a single black mom who is living on a quote on quote challenge area, i just bought an ar15, taken for the organization and thank you foro the training that she feels shes able to protect herself. If you implement a lot of the proposals im hearing today lots of black single women and black men who are trying to get protection in these tough neighborhoods, the hood whatever you want to call our not quite be able to do that because is not discriminatory in the long term effect on our community, im opposed anything along those lines. On assault weapons and standard capacity on magazines are not effective. It depends that was pivot in the 90s, they just do not work, they only prevent my community to having the bestti will possible to protect themselves. I willth say this my family is e best arm to protect my wife, my children and my property at the very good to all when used by lawabiding citizen. Senator. Thank you was the chairman. Doctor hunter. Would you consider the gun violence in our country andu, National Health issue. Absolutely is a Public Health issue. Therefore a Public Health issue shouldnt we be able to have a lots more informationlt about the incident of gun violence and perhaps my black women for example would go out and buy guns in thisn environment. Absolutely evidencebased Public Health approaches to solving problems is something that is essential. Ea we have seen it with Motor Vehicle accidents, we have seen an approaching hiv aids epidemic. Meaningful solutions to include legislation as well as public investors are in private companies to make better decisions as well as informing consumers to make better decisions comes from transparent data. Right now as researchers we dont have the data to give you the best information possible to make the law comprehensive that are going to keep us safe. I agree with you and as our colleague testified that gun deaths is the highest cause of death for young people in a country you would think that we would want to better understand on what we could do. Yoprofessor volker. After brian theres a lot of questions about various state laws that may fit within the brewing kind of a situation including hawaii. I dont know if youre familiar with the fact that hawaii has some of the strictest gun laws in the country and probably the lowest gun violence rate in our country and already after the Supreme Court has sent a case challenging hawaiis laws back to the ninth circuit for a new ruling. Would you expect a lot more challenges state law such as in hawaii and what does that do for states efforts to lower gun violence in their state . Thank you for the question senator not only would i expect typically seen it cases that have been sent back down for further consideration issues which we thought to be resolved by prior Second Amendment cases included the constitutionality of prohibition like Highland Parks minister for assault weapons ban, my hope and expectation is that judges will recognize what judge Amy Coney Barrett wrote in the dissenting opinion on the Second Circuit that history is consistent with the common sense. The anderson dangerous persons can be disarmed by clients usual weapons could be just hit enter prohibited i hope they continue to reflect that fact. Do you think the Supreme Court will sustain a national ban on assault weapons . Do you think the support will support the states ban what about a large capacity magazines. You think the Supreme Court was sustained either the national or the state level. What are the difficult things about answer the question is the degree which bruin has introduced uncertainty but the lead up to the bruin has extremely well second litigation there is a jewish prudence that existed upheld these laws under different rationale some concluding those weapons are dangerous and inconsiderable and fall outside of the Second Amendment and some courts saying the government had ath sufficiet interest and they will be relitigating. In the Supreme Court has again affirmed dangerous and unusual weapons can be prohibited. By Justice Scalia the court acquitted dangerous and unusual weapons with in 16th and the like. In the like may occur ar15 as well. There is an argument there in common use the National Shooting Sports Foundation that 20 million have been sold in the past few decades i have no reason to doubt the accuracy of that number but i would say the 20 million assault weapons in circulation in the past o few decades does not mean 20 million assault weapons owners that is probably concentrated much smaller proportion of gun owners who are minority of the American Population is over maybe talking about four or 5 million americans that is 300 plus million and 20 million weapons is only 5 of the civilian weapon stock. Im not sure that constitutes common or not. What i would want to go to evaluate the question and i hope the Supreme Court would ask in light of bruin to consider the selfdefense how often are these weapons used in selfdefense in comparison to their use and gun massacres and Mass Shootings. We heard today in earlier example when one was that when marilyns prohibition on assault weapons was challenged neither the challengers or Law Enforcement can point to a single example of using assault weapon for selfdefense. If that is the case and if we take the industry in Justice Thomas for thatin matter afterwd that these are modern sporting rifles then i think the twoes times removed from the historical interest in selfdefense. The Supreme Court is not asking whether or not or how often these assault weapons were however, we describe them are used in selfdefense. Of thats not the question to ask you to ask you whether its dangerous and unusual. 20 million of these items in our environment that is not particularly unusual. Thats why this is the Supreme Court moving us enabling mores and more people to own all kinds of guns that we are awash guns in the country. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator. Im sorry senator blackburn. Thank you, mr. Chairman and take you to each of you for being here today in mayors certainly we extend our condolences and our sympathies to you all and Highland Park as we do with all of the victims that have faced this type of violence. Ha i think its fair to say that we all share the goal of safe communities and making certain that her children are safe in school and making certain that we can celebrate when we have a july 4 parade or a community event. As we work on this issue and you look at cities like chicago and philadelphia with very strict gun laws and then you say how do we get to this issue and make certain that people are safe. Mr. Bentley i want to come to you i appreciate some of the work that youve done on the issue of Mental Health and as we look at this pattern among some of the last several Mass Shootings we see that shooters have previously expressed desires to commit violence like the criminal there and Highland Park and the police even having responded to a clear and present danger. Call on that shooter after he made death threats. Mr. Bentley talk of little bit about how we can enhance Mental Health programs and awareness so potential shooters are stopped before they commit some of these crimes of violence. Taking for that question. That is Additional Resources to research and to provide Mental Health particularly as it relates to School Safety, a lot of our children are coming in situations involving trauma and they need that support so that n they can function providing a helping communities. Can i get you to link that to your work with behavioral threat assessment in those Early Warning signs . Yes, maam. Thats part of the situation that would be the center pointed out in their research that in order to make the behavioral threat assessment process work effectively it has to be couplea with providing a climate and also providing the situation where those individuals that work in the schools understand what we are looking for and who to report the information to in a timely manner and also provide those individuals that are crying out with that help that they need and there are often those individuals are not receiving help particular Mental Health. So what you need is a greater jurisdiction or latitude at the state and local level so that communities can respond . Am i perceiving that right . The work that we are doingam k12 schools with those schools and individuals in the schoolsho with the tools necessary. Thank you for that. Mr. Smith i want to come to you fma. There was a suggestion mentioning how defensive guns were ever your previous cdc estimatesut between 60002 and hf million defensive gun usage every year. And they also estimate 39700 gun related deaths every year in the u. S. You have talked a little bit about the importance of a firearm, possession of a firearm for selfdefense. I want to give you the opportunity to elaborate on that and have a few seconds. Thank you for the question if its critically important particularly for my community to have access to protect themselves in a very basic human level for years and years as everyone knows in this room we have not had access to firearms like other communities outside of thehe black community. My Organization Goes out and literally educates our folks unwanted gun is and what a gun is a how to produce and hold the gun and get trained and going to the rains in the intimate thing that you need to know as a firearm and gun owner. We go with those things with our community. Thats where organization has a strong following and when they go to the rings. You just dont jump into our organization and grab a gun it doesnt have that wave or certified in all of our folks how to handle it. Thats probably whether the reason for doing so well. Thank you all so much i think we all can agreeim that we wanto keep the Community Safe and i think you also much for your testimony. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you senator blackburn let me note the record the presence of congressman raj snyder who represents Highland Park, thank you for being with us. Let me also note for the record that chicago is not Highland Park. And proud to represent both communities there are challenges in both communities. Highland park is in a separate county for those who are not familiar enough the same jurisdiction of the city of chicago. The problem in chicago is a serious one but much different than the shooting incident that occurred on july 4 that brings usen together today. Senator klobuchar. Thank you very much editor al proud graduate of the law school. I know that and i appreciate you sharing with the rest of the committee. Doctoriv hunter thank you for yr service in the marine corps. I am from a state of minnesota with a strong tradition of hunting and fishing and i have talked with many gun owners like yourself who support of the Second Amendment that believe in common sense gun Safety Measures including banning assault weapons. I always look at these proposals and ask myself with this hurt my uncle dick and his dear stan, can you explain as a gun owner that grew up was sports shooting based on your knowledge of guns, does my uncle dick need an assault weapon in his dear stan . Thank you. One of these ill get itt correctly. As someone has spent time around guns my entire life, in my opinion nar 15 is not an ideal weapon for deer hunting. So your uncle dick would likely not be using one for deer hunting. Part of what makes it so dangerous is the high rate of fire which is also true when handguns are actually modified. With conversion devices actually turn them into fully automatic weapons. These devices can be purchased from foreign manufacturers for under 20 and can be installed under adi minute. Thats why this week im introducing legislation gary peters of michigan to require federal Law Enforcement to courtney with local Law Enforcement to crack down on these legal advices. And you agree of keeping these off of our streets will also help save lives . Taking for the question on that but the Research Shows us when they are used there is a higher rate of injury and death and some of the research around the federal assault weapons ban did show that there was ways to essentially make copycat weapons and had the same effects as the weapons that were intended to be banned. While i havent seen the exact legislation, what the research does show was, anything that increases the rate of fire or increases the deadliness of a weapon will lead to more injuries and deaths. Thank you, mayor andrewte leadership and your community and the nation. Last week i met with survivors from the horrific shooting and Highland Park, kids, parents and i also met with another group where i spoke with a 10yearold girl who was in the classroom next door during the bob elementary shooting. It was her friend in the same grade that she lost. She had pictures of the friend which she had on the little button that she wore around her neck. It really brought home to me that that tragedy didnt end, of course not in the classroom it did not end at the funerals. It did not end at the hospital. It continues for the family. There isnt just one victim. Can you talk about the longterm impacts that you expect to see in Highland Park and how people are dealing with the grief. Were still as a community trend if he got the next step to healing. Mm we observed a moment of silence a week after. We held our visual for traumatized Community Members as well as swat teamsob and rooftop sniper teams because people were scared to gather together and just before this hearing i spoke with the husband never survivor who is still in the icu, here we are to a half weeks later providing for preserving her ability to live a life in the past and we obviously know about cooper roberts. There is a lot of physical andng emotional pain that we will all be carrying with us and a lot of folks advise on never be the same weird turn to figure out how do we get our children to feel safe going into school nexg month and while i wholeheartedly appreciate the support, all the Mental Health efforts in the School Hardening efforts in the red flag laws, everything that everyone is trained to do at the upbottom line in moving forwards a community and as a nation we need to get combat weapons out of civilian hands. I appreciate the question it is still a new journey for all of us. Itll be a long journey but right now we need these weapons out of civilian hands. Well said. For my very last question mr. I think its important to express the grief but turn into action and you were there on the white house lawn when the president gave his remarks after signing into law the bipartisan saver community that i think so many of us in our colleagues who worked on that and provisions that many of us the boyfriend loophole closing that bill that i worked on for ten years and we finally got it done. Can you explain as we look at the next steps as we cannot wait ten years or another ten years or another 50 years to do something when it comes to the three threat by assault weapon. Highland park was number 309 now or up to 350 Mass Shootings in the last 15 days. That many more have been addedla to the list. There is so much tolr be celebrated in the bipartisan saver communities act and we thank you all for your efforts but my gosh how much more needs to happen before this obvious action is taken. We know there are Mental Health issues and other countries throughout this world. We know there are troubled people who are inclined towards Violence Free but is the differentiating factor, combat weapons and access to civilians. Theres no place for these weapons. I appreciate ensure deep concerns about the gun violencet issues in the city of chicago and all of our nations, large cities and frankly elsewhere. But at the end of the day todays hearing is about how do we reduce Mass Shootings. We reduce by getting rid of combat weapons in civilian hands. Well said, thankin you. Santa cruz. The state of illinois like the state of texas is dealing with yet another horrific mass murder. Inevitably when a crime of this sort occurs in political debate burst out in washington. Everyone on this committee and everyone inur this room wants to prevent the next mass murder. Everyone is horrifying at the criminals who would take the lives of children, take the lives of the innocent and were horrified of the steadily increasing rates of murders in the city of chicago, and cities across the country or whether in my home state and the beautiful Elementary School of bob elementary involving texas. The question is how to do so. How do you stop mass murders. There are two approaches. One approach target the bad guys and the felons in the fugitives and those with serious Mental Illness prosecute them and get them off the streets and at the same time enhance the security of vulnerable locations in our society that include schools, churches, places that these deranged murderers have been targeted messy approach that i believe works. There is a second approach which the Democrat Members of this Committee Support which is guncontrol which is targeting lawabiding citizens a disarming lawabiding citizens. The second approach doespp not work. It is consistently ineffective. It is the objective to stop mass murders. Gun control does not work. The state of illinois has theob strictest gun control laws of any state in the country. Highland park cast richter guncontrol laws than the state of illinois. Consistently if you look across the strictest gun control laws with almost out exception they have the highest crime rates and the highest murder rates. It is not complicated why whent you disarming lawabiding citizens. The result is the criminals dont follow the laws they have the guns in the lawabiding citizens are able to defend themselves. We saw on sunday another deranged murder at killer fired into a crowd and Greenwood Park mall in indiana. Within 15 seconds that killer was shot and killed by 22yearold eli dickens who thankfully was carrying a concealed handgun. Many more lives wouldve been lost in indiana that day and mre and exercise to Second Amendment right and had not saved the lives of the innocents there. , is not an exception is not unusual. Part of the Obama White House firearms are used defensively to stop a crime in the United States of america between 500,000 in the million times every year. Whenever you have a deranged murder committing a crime there are two and only two ways to stop. Number one is Law Enforcement stops them or number two an individual citizen who is armed stops them. Those are the two ways if we want to stop crimes we need to get the criminals offvi the streets and we need to increase lawem enforcement. Increase Law Enforcement. But now, we just had a debate on gun control, and the democrats passed a bill with some republican support. That i think is likely to do nothing to prevent violent crime. Its satisfied political agenda. But it is unlikely to stop the next mass murder. I submitted a bill, chris bourassa, which would have prosecuted violent criminals, got about the street. It wouldve created the National Project exile, so that a criminal commits a crime with a gun, he faces federal prosecution and mandatory jail time. So the trigger pullers not there to commit crimes. And cruise fossa would have doubled the number of police 10 billion to Mental Health counselors and schools to stop these troubled young boys and men who so often are those committing these crimes. Unfortunately, the democrats on this committee and every democrat in the senate voted against because a proposal devoting resources to Law Enforcement to stopping the murderers tote prevent the crims to getting the murderers off the street, that is not politically advantageous. Their objective is to disarm the lawabiding citizens and many of the democrats on the committee ivwould happily ban weapons that would have disarmed and resulted in a lot more people being murdered. Many other democrats on theve committee would ban ar 15s which would have disarmed and saved lives. This topic is serious. I commend the witnesses for being here and i wish the members of the committee treated it with the seriousness to actually ask what stops crime and murder because the Political Solutions this body has put forth does not do that and instead of the political bill that isnt going to stop crime, we should have passed and doubled the number in schools and stopped murderers from committing their crimes. Thank you, mr. Chair. After the tragedy inn ufology texas and Highland Park joined the ranks of those that experienced the uniquely american epidemic of Mass Shootings while the bipartisan act was a critical step in addressing the problem, we must now turnaf to the issue of unfettered access to military styled assault weapons and enable themss to be obtained. These are weapons designed for the battlefield. Not hunting or communities. The threat posed are robbing the communities of safe spaces and people shouldnt have to live in fear of what happened in ufology and how to park and to ensure that it doesnt happen again. The a bipartisan safer communits act will provide 750 million in funding to support the crisis intervention services. Weve begun to touch on it earlier in the hearing. But these walls like families, communities, Police Officers to petition judges to issue fire restraining orders for individuals they believe pose a threat to themselves or others. Exemplifying many characteristics that should have made him unfit for the ownership for example Highland Park Police Responded to an incident in 2019 where people made threats against his family. They confiscated 16 knives, a dagger and a sword and ultimately filed a report declaring him a clear and present danger. He attempted suicide, threatened to kill his family and told police that he had been depressed and was using drugs. He also made social media posts glorifying Mass Shootings. The signs were there. Yet despite all this, he was approved for a license and purchased several firearms including the rifle he used to carry out his attack on fourth of july. The instance in which red flags walls should have been invoked but were not. The first two years in which the red flag law was in effect, only 53 firearms were filed with nearly half of them coming from a single suburban county outside of chicago. In 2020 and 2021, just judges issued 115 rivers and less than fiveof per month statewide. Thank you for your testimony and leadership during this devastating time for the community. Our hearts go out to you. Although we know the red flags walls save lives, the usefulness is limited to the extent that people actually know about them. What suggestions you have for promoting awareness of the purpose and applicability of the laws so that they are more effective. Ecthose closest to the potential shooters are best at assessingiz the risk, but a burden is placed on them. I agree theres an opportunity to move forward to stop people from beingsk able to access ivs and weapons but at the end ofd the day those weapons and particularly those of assault at weapons shouldnt be available period. Lets be clear, the differentiating factor between the u. S. And the rest of the world is assault weapons are available. We need to show the world that thisin is available and those tt may be dealing with the difficulties of having a mentally ill Family Member trying to work through that balance of keeping them safe and keeping themselves safe its important to have red flag laws but we need to get rid of combat weapons. Ial couldnt agree more. We need to continue the fight. As skeptical as some people may have been at the beginning its not the ban but theres a lot to be said for enhanced background checks even if it is providers under 21. I wish it was everybody. Nationally. The investments in b mental heah the red flag laws and the complete solution in and of themselves they will help save lives if implemented more broadly. Not every state has their own and its contingent upon so looking forward to follow up with you and the other witness. But police did everything right and followed the rule and tried everything that they had at their disposal to make sure the weapons were not able to be obtained and get here we are. Thank you. Thank you, senator. Thank you mr. Chairman. Mr. Smith, i actually feel a lot of what youve been saying today. You and i agree onac a lot of things we know the history of africanamericans in the entire history ofeg the country being overwhelmingly the victims of horrific violence from the killing of four girls and aca of Breonna Taylor to sleep in her own house. Its about the instinct to want to defend themselves like black panthers did in oakland or in as you are seeing with black women now, correct . Absolutely. So you and i also agree that we need to with urgency and this violence in the United States of america. Youve said that in your testimony. So i want to point out some things i find outrageous that you probably find outrageous also. We dont invest in communities so the violence doesnt happen in the first place. Edthe strategies are about empowering communities that lower violence. You agree with me on that . And i agree that most of the crimes happening in communities like ours, im the only senator to my knowledge, that lives in a low income black and Brown Community the last 25 years and what kills me is that every single shooting when i was the mayor except for one that we could find happened with a person that wasnt qualified to buy a gun that was able to get that gun. You agree in general thats true, right . Most are happening because people do not qualify to buy a gun. Criminals find a way to get a gun, correct . And so youou and i would probaby agree that this nation should have universal, thorough background checks,s, correct . I support background checks. I know you do. The tracer data, the clearance rates are so low that the communities are like why cant we get the bad people behind if we have the laws that preventea people from doing the Research Research youthink that is absur . I would agree, yes. So here you and ii could go down a long list of things that would make allyo of us safer tht we dont do because friends of mine block us in this body that would make communities like yoursof and mine are a lot safe, correct . We could find bipartisan things. If the one Law Enforcement organization weve increased budgets massively for every, we hand strap the atf and dont allow them to do their job or keep computer records of things going on. I think when it comes to looking i think having an ar 15 is a valueadded. Im trying to establish the foundation. Americans have a lot of agreement on this and even folks that are a republican witness and some democrats. So let me switch to one thing i take issue with and turn to hunter and you can talk to me later. You said pulling j the trigger s just one and these are some other than a pistol or shotgun. At the top of my block a few years ago, smith was killed with an Assault Rifle. The police, one of the officers said to me it was as if when the bullet hit his head it exploded. Sscan you please explain for the record the difference between a one shot pistol, versus one of these as old weapons used at war zones . There is no difference between when you take a shotgun rifle some stronger than others absolutely but the mechanics are the same. Everything you said is factual. But could you please explain . Thank you very much. So, this weapon was chosen by the United States army in vietnam because it was designed to shoot through a standard issue military helmet at 500 yards. It wasn designed to kill someone wearing a military helmet at 50. So, what that does to a civilian who is wearing nothing, a baseball cap is liquefy organs. That is the intent. Yes, one pole but this round of the way that it was designed was to do as much damage as quickly as possible and kill enemy soldiers wearing a standard issue military helmet. I want to ask the mayor a question, but that is the point. They hit bodies and liquefy organs. I have seen too many shootings in my community. The ones with pistols people are more likely to survive, the ones with these guns cause unbelievable damage. It takes one pole of the trigger to fire a grenade and fire a pistol. Theres a difference between these weapons. I have too much experience with seeing children die and god bless our Police Officers in the United States of america. Ive not seen the heroism like this. Men and women running towards gunfire with no situational awareness. Im not joking when i see one of my officers i want to hug them because i know that every day they put on the uniform if i was their Family Member, if i was the husband of a Police Officer you worry about them and what they did come all the stories i hear you should be so proud, and im sorry though that you have to feel that. I dont think folks understand the true devastationo we mourn the loss of life and that is not incalculable but when these events happen to a town, the true cost is so much greater. Ive seen businesses close. Ive seen people that are so traumatized if they hear fireworks go off fourth of july and they dived for cover. Closing and then i will return to the chair, can you try to help people understand that the regularity of the shootings in the communities is doing a deeper damage than i think america could even understand, and it is a matter of time. We are at the point now we know that this is just a matter of time andnd we are talking about Highland Park. But tomorrow we could be talking about another town, and other mosque, Grocery Store, church, school. Can you please try to capture that one more time . I flew in with the mayor of buffalo by happenstance and several are here with me today. We all know that isnt if but when. The pain of being in a fourth of july parade and getting in that crowd thinking no, not now, not today and i dont know what we will do next fourth of july. I have people that will tell me they will never go to a parade again. People tell me we need to do the biggest parade ever. How do we reclaim normalcy, i dont know. And i will be reaching out to edthe many within an hour of the shooting whove gone through this painful experience to say to them how do we move forward. Ive been in touch with several of them regularly. I dont know why this needs to be thel new normal. I dont know why we need to live this way. And frankly, i need a better explanation for the students that have to go backne to the classroom and a month to be able to say to them dont worry, ive got you. When we talk to students in the community they said to me we knew this was coming. Not from this particular instance but every one of them said weve been waiting for this our whole lives and they knew what to do and they thought it would be in school, heaven help us all. There is no way to live when you are in this kind of fear and im so concerned not just for my community but for the country. This needs to stop. Is there anything i canre doo help you . [applause] thank you, senator and thanks to the panel. What happened today some say i want to talk about this. I want to do something about this. I want to make sure that it never happens again. To the residence in Highland Park that came here today for this hearing, youve taken that extra step. America will notice that. They should because you care and i care. We all care together. If this never happens again. And we know in reality that it already has and that it will again. You saw a good illustration today of the political aspects of this issueal involving guns d why we tend to do so little. Once every 30 years we are going to do another gun safety bill. God forbid, if that is what happens. The question we need to ask ourselves as politicians we need to join us on asking was Highland Park a tipping point, would set a moment when americans stopped to reflect on assault weapons . Youve already texas seems to have been and it motivated a lot of people on both sides of the aisle to talk about the subjects that were ignored for years. When it comes to assault weapons and what they did in Highland Park i dont know the answer to that. I will tell you i dont believe ar 15 is just another gun. I think it is a killing machine and we have ample testimony. He questioned the seriousness on our effort. How could he do that in light of what you have been through. For goodness sakes theres nothing more serious that happened r on the fourth of july in Highland Park and i remind my colleague when he answers that question that i think hes gone too far. With the bipartisan saver communities act not enough for the violence that takes place with the massive sugar incidents. And just for the record, the rate of death by population for gun violence in chicago is not as great as rockford where my hometown of east st. Louis or any other communities. Its terrible. Every life is precious. Its an american phenomenon and what we are facing. Thank you for being here today, caring enough to come here today. I think the members of the panel. Ei there may be followup questions and i hope that you will respond to them in a timely manner. The committee stands adjourned. [applause] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] the january 6 committee returns to prime time as they investigate former president trumps response following the initial breach of the capital. Cspan, cspan now or online on cspan. Org we are providing lower income students access to affordable internet so homework can just be homework