Possible areas of improvement. The committee is also in alaska later this month in a virtue from stakeholders and additional hearings throughout the country this fall. I would like to first welcome both of our witnesses, dr. John quinn and mr. Chris oliver, noaa assistant administrator for fisheries also known as the administrator. 11 years ago created the ccc. The ccc can you leadership of the Regional Fisheries Management Council to discuss a common interest and im pleased to have dr. Quinn here today to discuss consensus views of the eighth council of the msa reauthorization. Im also pleased to introduce chris oliver, firstever alaskan to permit to hold the position of the assistant administrator for fisheries before becoming director, chris spent 27 years working at the Management Council as the executive director and i can tell you we are thrilled to have you in this very important position. Based on its work in the gulf of mexico at the beginning of the career with the largess and best managed fishery with confidence under his leadership the last american interests will be well represented in the concerns and perspective of the commercial charter recreation alike will be valued. For so many alaskans and their families in so many throughout the country, phishing is a way of life. As i mentioned many times, our fisheries are by far the largest in the nation. Id like to say alaska is a superpower seafood constituting over 50, almost close to 60 of all domestic landing and tens of thousands of jobs. Many communities are fisheries at the back for their economy. It is my intention to make sure the reauthorization guarantees continued strong coastal communities not only in alaska but throughout the country. Congress considers whether or not the msa is important that we not rest on previous games. In the last time says the nsa was authorized, legislation able to support the technology has not. Specifically as it relates to Data Collection and analytical tools with better understanding, the health of the stocks and how they can assist in that regard as well as reducing administrative burdens on our fishing industry are topics ripe for discussion and possible elements of the reauthorization. In addition, as they continue the fishery resources across the United States, we must ensure that our nations fisheries and Management Systems the stable food supply, recreational opportunities and plentiful fishing and processing jobs that provide for braver coastal communities. I want to thank her witnesses again for being here. I now recognize the Ranking Member for any Opening Statements may have. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thanks to her witnesses for being here this morning to discuss the important issue of reauthorizing magnusonstevens act. The original name teen 70s fact help explode fish in a Foreign Place in u. S. Waters and protect our important fishery resource is. We come to understand the importance of managing our fisheries and preserving these incredibly important natural resources. The authorizations are successfully rebuilt several fish populations to a healthy sustainable level to the benefit of close communities. But we still have overfishing and over fish populations and we should also seek out ways to improve the Management Systems we create. They need to determine what is working, what needs improvement and ways to improve fishery management is why we are all here today. I regret i cant spend as much time at the hearing this morning as i would like due to a scheduling conflict. I look forward to work see what our witnesses had to care for us. Michigan like the rest of the country is full of hunters and anglers. Every year, nearly one pointed at you and anglers fish on the great lakes and there are roughly 1900 charter boats operating there. This activity is estimated to have a 7 billion impact on the surrounding economy and supports about 50,000 jobs. While we michiganders are typically targeting walleye, trout, perch and muskies where we live, their many of us who travel to states like florida and alaska to enjoy saltwater fishing opportunities. Michigan also has a very robust roaming Product Manufacturing industry that depends on vibrant coastal communities and wellmanaged federal fisheries. Finally, michigan like much of the rest of the country is full of seafood lovers. We want to be sure the fin fish and shellfish that we purchased at market, much of which comes from states like alaska and florida is spread other countries is responsibly harvested. So how we manage our federal fisheries matters to the folks in michigan. What we do about this gorge of the legal unreported or unregulated fishing occurring in the waters of other countries and on the high seas also matters a great deal to us. Conserving these resources for Sustainable Management so they can continue to support the businesses and communities that rely on them matters to folks in michigan. The Sustainable Management dismay future we are using science driven process are Fisheries Management is complex and needs to account for the interactions between different pcs, between species and their habitats. Understanding those many interactions takes a lot of study and an awful lot of data, which requires a lot of moderating. It is important to look for ways to leverage developments in technology and science to do the critical job of managing our federal fisheries better. Only by gathering and utilizing all the hard mental information necessary can we understand the ocean, the coastal ecosystems that provide us with this important and delicious natural resources. Mr. Chairman, want to mention while i understand most freshwater fishery issues are not within the purview of this committee, have introduced a bill called the Great Lakes Fishery Research Authorization act of 2017. This legislation referred to the committee on the environment will solidify the basis upon which fisheries in the great lakes are managed by augmenting current data gathering methods and utilizing new cuttingedge technologies. It is my hope as part of this important msa reauthorization process we might have some cross colonization of ideas and approaches to conservation and management between Great Lakes Fisheries and federal saltwater fisheries. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you him is thank you on the senator peters. And now i ask senator nelson, Ranking Member of the Commerce Committee would like to make an Opening Statement as well. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Just a couple comments. One of the great things about this committee is the broad jurisdiction that it has in areas that are so important to the country as a whole. You think about this. The 1970s, and their senator said three from washington. There is senators demand from alaska. And they knew that there is a problem in new england and senator murphy syria because it was getting overfished. And so, they set about to do something about it and that is more than three decades ago. We are the beneficiaries of that kind of bipartisan effort, clearly, mr. Chairman, your state of alaska is one of the most fisheries around. By the way, that is one of the reasons we have one of the most Important Reasons of why we have the u. S. Coast guard out there. It not only is given the task from the United States navy of protecting our National Security, but it is there to protect that big, big fishing fleet. And then, its interesting that the members of the committee, we have a number of members that represent landlocked states. They dont have a direct outlet to the ocean. Yes, you are the great lakes. But yet, they participate and understand the importance of the magnusonstevens act. And so, thank you for having this hearing. And of course, my state when it comes to downright recreational charter boats as well as commercial fishing, we are known as the capital of the fishing world. That sounds more impressive than the superpower seafood. [laughter] i can speak for senator wicker that there is a great deal that comes from the livelihood of the people along the gulf and in the case of the atlantic when senator markey comes back all up and down the atlantic. The goal phase such an important resource of all types that we know we have to protect it. Interestingly, also, the gulf happens to be off the florida, the largest testing and Training Range for the United States military in the world. And so, we have for our National Security sake likewise reasons to protect bad goals. I will close by saying that one of the greatest challenges that i saw was when 5 Million Barrels of oil were spilled in the goal and that immediately affected the livelihoods of a lot of people not only in the fishing industry, but also is cut out an entire season of our Tourism Industry on the gold coast because people thought the beaches were covered with oil. It is a unique environment in this committee is particularly suited to protect this kind of ocean environment and so i am very grateful that you are bringing up for discussion the magnusonstevens act peered thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator nelson. I want to again welcome our witnesses today. Mr. Chris oliver, assistant administrator for the fishery. I want to commend and express my appreciation to secretary rice for the selection of chris. I dont think you could have found a more qualified, capable director and dr. John quinn, chair of the Council Coordination committee at northeast Fisheries Management council. You will each have five minutes to deliver an oral statement. The longer written statement will be included in the record if you so desire. Mr. Oliver, the floor is yours. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I participated in the 1996 and 2006 reauthorization processes in my previous role and wallet were in a different hat today in this administration has yet to take formal positions on specific issues, my fundamental is remain built on the success of the act as evidenced by Sustainable Management in the pacific fisheries and fisheries across the United States. I would like to describe some of the Agency Successes under the act, but i want to focus on some of the challenges that remain. It has been an outstanding success through the partnership with the Councils Commission and other stakeholders we effectively ended overfishing in this country by rebuilding fish ducks across the board in ensuring sustainable supply for the nation and the future. The magnuson act created broad goals through the magnusonstevens act in fishery management and unique Management Structure around the Regional Councils. I can personally attest to the body of the system which encourages collaborative bottomup process were in putting decision such as fishermen, other fishery stakeholders, and the federal government. Working together, it is brought back numerous resources and fisheries across our country. Im especially proud of viacom ocean is where approaches have led them to be widely recognized as one of the most successfully managed fisheries in the world, yet we have challenges remaining. As an example, this species rebuilt several important stock and significant portions of the harvest in the water due to an outdated regulation and also constraints. We have to find ways to maximize the allowable harvest smaller fisheries that import may do so within our overall longterm conservation goals. This is the case for some of our commercial fisheries as well. The Recreational Fishing is among the nations favorite pastimes in a major contributor to the economy at all levels. We are pleased to announce we are partnering with the atlantic state Fishery Commission to host a National Summit on saltwater Recreational Fisheries in march 2018. While limits are a cornerstone of Sustainable Management, we have to recognize when she under the associated managers has been a major change in the challenge for many fisheries and as well as Recreational Fisheries, particularly where it can be much more difficult to collect a timely report and where management goals may differ fundamentally from commercial fisheries. Additional flexibility in how we apply this Accountability Measures in annual catch limits as those rebuilding schedules could expand our collective toolbox and ability to address many of the issues which have been raised in reauthorization discussions. I assure you we stand ready to assist any way we can and those approaches are being considered. Americas seafood industry set the global standard for sustainability. However, the majority of the food we consume commented port mother some opportunities to enhance while stock harvest, with a significant headroom and agriculture production and we are already making marine agriculture development. Priority within the agency through various operational and budgetary incentives. Ordination of the regulatory permitting process is a key area where we can be more day. With these initiatives and regulation of our wild stock, fisheries, we can position the nation to make inroads on the seafood deficit. The current act works very well for most fisheries. However, i believe their opportunities to provide additional flexibility to allow us to more effectively manage some of those fisheries, particularly those that have different catch accounting challenges or can benefit generally from alternative management approaches. Although challenges remained in the fisheries in the near term, overall the benefits for the resources come industries that supports and our economy in general can be realized that this populations grow and limits increase in the longer term. In that sense, i believe we can have it both ways. I believe that we can maximize opportunities take opportunities to maximize our domestic harvest potential without compromising the longterm sustainability of the resources they manage. I and noaa fisheries are working throughout this reauthorization process to achieve the goal and that concludes my opening comments, mr. Chairman. I will be happy to try to answer questions. Thank you, director oliver. Dr. Kwame. Thank you very much, chairman sullivan to make it never peters did and john quinn from here to testify on the court naming committee. The director of program at the university of Massachusetts School of law is right next door to the leaping fish ports in the nation and have been involved in issues the last 30 years as a lawyer at a state legislator in the last five years as a member of the management account. Commercial recreation and subsistence fisheries are key contributors to communities in the nations economy. The councils are the cornerstone of the regional system created and as a group we are strong believers in its benefit. Today ill highlight a few issues that are detailed in a written statement. The need for management flexibility, the import the public process and the need for adequate resources. We begin with management flexibility. The wide variety of fisheries in our country means that no challenges will work in all cases. A strategy should be to create a flexible Legal Framework with a wide range of management solutions. This is true when it comes to providing Sustainable Fisheries here to batman requires that the Poor Condition must be rebuilt. The arbitrary timeline can cause problems and imagine that every homeowner but only purchasing a home would work for some. It would not work for all. I want to make it clear that we do not seek building requirements, but believed targeted changes that the law would enable the development of better rebuilding plans. Not just the councils that reach this conclusion. The issue is a report by the National Research council in 2014. Theres also a need for flexibility at the tactical level. They need to consider a wide variety of management tools without burdensome requirements. Acl may not be the best tools to manage all fisheries. Finally, most recent use of the permits to conduct Scientific Research that leaves the management solutions. Requirements of the efp process would greatly reduce the ability to get approved in a timely manner. Fishermen and their communities that suffer as a result. As for the public sentiment clearly a transparent process is critical to maintaining public trust. They need to be met in a variety of ways with specific webcast requirement leading to additional expense and ignore the technical difficulties when Holding Meetings in isolated fishing ports. Allpurpose actions are carefully examined before implementation. The need for analysis however duplicate those in the other half of the law. We believe that alternative analysis should be done in the framework of the act rather than the pot. 40 years of experience the councils provide a well known timetested form for resolving fishery issues. They develop regulations that limit fishing that are often sidestepped. If all federal fishing regulations are promulgated under Section Three or two of the act, it would assure rational management of resources throughout the range. As for resources, to effectively manage fisheries and a significant investment needed in all steps of the process. We rely heavily on Data Analysis provided cover reducing stock assessment funds and harvest by u. S. Fishermen to increase import of foreign seafood. Increasing stock assessment sunday concluding that need to collect the necessary data is one of the best investments and administration in making u. S. Fisheries. Did at the oval ability is one among the greatest challenges for the management of Recreational Fisheries. Changes to noaa program has done little to increase the precision. It does not provide the data needed for reliable acl sedans. Addressing this problem will require increased rate which can only occur with increased funding. We recognize strategic landing at necessary and we are concerned that creates Unfunded Mandates for the council. We should fulfill existing regulatory management requirements before earning new mandates are required. I believe its important to acknowledge the support of relationship between the council and National Fisheries service. The Regional Office and Science Centers are critical to our process. Its unfortunate that mr. Oliver decided to transfer to the second best part of the partnership when we look forward to working with him in the future. Thank you for the opportunity to address the committee and answer any questions. Thank you, dr. Kwame. I like the little rivalry between the witnesses here. That is helpful. Let me begin now with senator nelson. He made an important point about the bipartisan history with regard to this fact and that is certainly my goal as chairman to bring together members on both sides of the aisle but we are looking at reauthorization of the msa. So, given that, i would like to ask both of you, starting with mr. Oliver, what would you see what would you hope to see in the msa reauthorization, the issues that you think is important to address and what areas of consensus do you think exist possibly in importantly between the commercial interests, recreational interests, conservation interests. However you want to answer that question both of you, thats a really key issue to get your view on that kind of highlevel important issue to begin with. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I will take a shot at that. In my previous role, you probably have heard me testify on behalf of the North Pacific council when i was in role they were working very well and we didnt see the need for changes. I am in a new role now and as i look at the issue more broadly and i have heard from constituents around the country, i have heard the dialogues that have occurred with regard to the ideas that have been submitted or discussed over the past year or two in various reauthorization discussions. I have come to believe that there is room in a lot of measures in the act were designed around commercial fisheries and i think there is possibility that additional flexibility is better being consider, whether it is with regard to the annual catch limit or rebuilding plans or the Accountability Measures particularly that are used to enforce the annual catch limit. And i think this is particularly true in fisheries commercial fisheries where we dont have quite the stock assessment or Data Collection counting systems that are used to in a previous role, very robust and very accurate. So you are saying those dont exist evenly throughout the councils in different regions . I think that is correct, sir. I think many of our Recreational Fisheries are of the nature that they dont lend themselves well to some of those stricter Accountability Measures and i think there is probably will for us, the more tools we have in our toolbox and i wont speak for dr. Kwame, but i am speaking from my own experience. And again, our administration has taken positions on these actions you do have to be a little careful how he answered. I can ask you your personal view. My personal view, my personal experience, the more tools we have come at a better job we can do in many of these fisheries that dont have the robust catch counting systems in particular the Recreational Fisheries that have a different set of goals and object is in many cases for management. That kind of flexibility through this reauthorization process. Or kwame, would you like to address the broad topic . Just by the nature of the hearing, we are here to authorize, not to repeal it in the aspects are working well. We are here to tweet it in a couple things like mr. Oliver, the issue of Data Availability and stock assessment particularly we have got a lot of work to do. The level of uncertainty in the stock assessment is some thing and also can be solved at least sharper the purpose of more data. Data needs are very important in the uncertainty. Recreationally, the commercial work for the commercials unnecessarily for the recreation. Let me follow up on that point. How does the commercial fishing in terms of their similarities and differences from each other and began either flexibilities that currently exist that can address that are doing it to look at that as an area of possible reform . I think many of the challenges are similar, but there are some fundamental differences. Beta of one guidelines in place for a few months. I think some of the council are able to take advantage of those revisions to National Standard in guidelines, but i dont think they necessarily fully address some of the problems in some of the regions. I think those exist for both commercial and Recreational Fisheries. In many cases, we lack the fundamental information in terms of stock assessment, whats in the water, where and the ability through realtime accounting to know what precisely coming out of the water. Some of those are internal challenges we need to deal with in the existing structure of the act within the existing structure of our and regulations. Some of them could in effect from flexibility that might be provided through the authorization process. Thank you. Senator markey. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Very much. Dr. Kwame, thank you for coming down. Appreciate it. We appreciate all of your work. History Management Council coordinating committee and fred your research, you are a master of maritime. Thank you for all of your work. You know as well as anybody knows in our country that noaa data shows that Climate Change will have an impact on marine life with many moving north into new areas for peoples waters. Ocean acidification impedes the development to shellfish and lots of populations are moving not so southern species like black sea bass are appearing in greater numbers off the coast of massachusetts. Ocean pontification would be devastating to shall fisheries like we have in massachusetts. It is the highest grossing port in the United States and 78 of landings are scalpers. And act, the investment was the most risk in the nation due to Ocean Acidification from Climate Change. What tools do dr. Kwame, Regional Councils have to ensure we can respond to moving or changing due to Climate Change . I first want to add that its been the highest grossing for the last 15 years in a row. Very good news. I think unfortunately, we do not have a switch we can flip it lowered the water temperature with decreasing Ocean Acidification. What we can do is continue to collect more and more data to identify trends for Ocean Acidification impact so we are going to monitor this. I think some councils have a lot of data on this. I think others not so increasing monitoring is very important for us to plan for the future of Climate Change. Do you have the tools you need in new england in order to do adequately . Weve got the infrastructure. Additional monitoring obviously comes with enhanced outside of what you are doing now. That would certainly be a good tool for us to have two expand the monitoring and the Climate Change area. Were massachusetts says and where we do our fishing is the fastest body of water on the planet. So this is warming up very, very fast. As this water just keeps up ever more rapidly, they are just moving further to the north and impact in the fishing community. Absolutely. The southern new england lobster industry is moving north and certainly coming up in massachusetts, fishermen are fishing species that is certainly reflected in the landings. Ocean acidification does have a profound impact, especially on shellfish. Can you talk a little bit about your feeling about the need for more basic research and the impact which Ocean Acidification is having on the industry . Absolutely. We need as Much Research as possible in the Climate Change area in the Ocean Acidification. Weve got some great programs of Collaborative Research with the industries involved in doing some of the research. It is important that data, data, the more data we get on this, the more data we get on other aspects that are very helpful for planning purposes. Thank you. And dr. Oliver, on the question of the legal unreported, unregulated fishery in the United States, issued the final rule in december 2016. Can you give us a little bit of an update as to the implementation of the rule and what the paces for scheduled implement patient in january of 2018 . [inaudible] or are you speaking specifically on the iu. But ive always been a lot of interest in that rule and the additional requirement that it puts on our producers. I know theres been a lot of interest and other aspects of that rule such as including shrimp, for example, because so many of our imports in our trade deficit bas based on those impos is from imported farm shrimp. For a variety of reasons were not able to do that. That something will be pursuing in the future, but i dont have any i guess more to say on that. If there are more specific questions that you have i be glad to follow up with you. I think for the record it would be important for us to understand what noaa believes this date of plate is in regards to fishing, seafood fraud. It does harm to our domestic fishman in a significant way. To the extent for which you can provide that information i think it would be very helpful to the council but helpful to the skinny as well. Absolutely, senator. Senator wicker. Mr. Oliver, let me pick up on the line of questioning that chairman sullivan was pursuing. During his time, and that saltwater Recreational Fishing. You mention on which to that noaa fisheries is going to partner with our fisheries to host a National Summit in march of next year on saltwater recreation of fisheries. I introduced a bill called the modernizing recreational Fisheries Management act, which would amend Magnuson Stevens to improve management for saltwater Recreational Fishing. Its cosponsored by Ranking Member nelson, also by senator blunt, senato, senator inhofe, r schatz and senator klobuchar of this committee. Will you work with congress as we explore Magnuson Stevens reauthorization in a way that allows the successes to continue while also adapting to fix the problems at hand, especially those with Recreational Fishing . And i would mention specifically the marine recreational information program, which are recreational fishermen believe lax timeliness and accuracy. They believe the program is not designed to monitor short seasons like red snapper. And have you looked at my bill and also have you looked at the idea of an innovation such as mississippis tales and scales electronic reporting system for red snapper landings by using smart phone snaps . Its sort of a twopart question that i will wrap into one. Thank you, senator. Senator sullivan. Yes, thank you for the question. We absolutely want to work within whatever construct you have to improve those types of information. I have become acutely aware in the short month that ive been here some of the issues surrounding not just red snapper but certainly a lot of focus on red snapper, taken with regard to some of our less than perfect satisfaction with some of our own stock assessment information, less than perfect satisfaction with our program. We of course have pending a baseline benchmark stock assessment for red snapper, thanks to funny thats been provided. Thats going to be a couple of years before we get the result of that but thats going to be an important piece of information. On the Data Collection side, whats coming out of the water, eifert from a number of constituents from a number of people i had discussions amongst my own staff leadership over the past two weeks about some of the dissatisfaction eifert with the program and the speed with which its progressing. That program is a work in progress and i understand some of the frustrations i think we have some improvements pending on it. Going from the Telephone Survey to a mail survey will be an improvement. Ive also heard that its not enough, its not fast enough and we are not taking great enough advantage of some of the state Data Collection programs as the one you referenced. And a couple of thoughts on that is ive made it a priority based on the discussion over the past two weeks to prioritize and expedite the certification of those state data Program Speak where using data of for many of those programs and a lot of those are supported to the program but i have heard loud and clear that we need to expedite decertification of those programs and the use of the data in those programs. And i personally believe when you look around at the technology we have today, smart phone technology, that there have to be, we have to find a way to utilize this technology is to get that information quickly, more quickly and more accurately. And under that theyre there been concerns about using that information as the apples and oranges problems with time it to date from the emmert and of the programs in of stock assessments, but i think were going to make it a priority to do that. I also believe that regardless of the implications for stock assessment, if we have a way to get better information today on what fishes coming out of the water, we darn well need to be using that. I absolutely agree with the provisions, the point youre making. I got a chance to briefly look at the legislation youve introduced and i think its consistent with, seems to be consistent with the things we already intend to do, but certainly any help and Direction Hotel providers, that would be most welcome and we will work with you. My time has expired so just ask you on the record about something i was going to explore in this hearing. Thats aquaculture in federal waters. In 2016 there was a final rule. So far we havent had any bites on, actually applications because of the extensive permitting process and other regulatory challenges. So, trejo think it would just ask mr. Oliver to comment on the record since we pressed for time here about why he thinks we havent had any, anybody apply now to have a program for agriculture. So thank you. If you can take that question for the record for senator wicker we would appreciate that very much. Senator inhofe. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Back when i enjoyed life, i was a builder and developer speeders that was yesterday. That was several years ago. Today in South Padre Island texas and in no unit different area, however you are familiar with the different regions. Did i understand interjection that we got from our chairman, noaa that you were from the gulf area . Yes, mr. Chairman, i grew up in rockport texas on the golf port not far from South Padre Island. We claim them as an alaskan though. I claim them as a texan to cows that . [laughing] its interesting. You are familiar with the interest that have in that down there, and its really just to clear some things at the first of in texas, and theres a lot of interest i to say in my state of oklahoma. People, thats the closest coast we go to, and there are a lot of industries that are very active down there, so we are interested in the coast. Actually where you go out, a number of miles you go out, thats understate jurisdiction, it was three miles. Its now nine miles, correct . Texas is nine miles territorial sea. But one time wasnt it only three miles . Not in my lifetime. Okay. My staff is wrong about then. My interest is when things that are unforeseen come up, how do you handle that . And do you have, the jurisdiction were talking about right now, both are you talking about, is that just federal jurisdiction or are you also oversee the state jurisdiction . In this case texas but im sure it would be true in other states. No, sir. Senator, mr. Chairman, we do not manage inside state territorial waters. We only manage, for example, red snapper outside of the state waters. We have to take into account what the states do interstate water seasons in order, which is why we originally were only able to set a 3d season in federal waters for gold reds snapper in 2017. Obviously we implemented regulations that of change that, relax that for the remainder of the summer. Whether and to what extent we can give any future remains to be seen. I think it remains, depends on pending stock assessments. Theres pending litigation we implement it issue. Theres potential legislation you might introduce that will affect what we may do, what may be the situation in 17, but the short answer to question is the states essentially manage what happens within their waters, whether it be three 09 miles or otherwise. And we have to react and sort of make up the difference on the federal site and thats where that adjustment in federal seasons comes in and we obviously are not enthusiastic about publishing a threeday federal season that was what the math left us. So we actually did have a threeday season for the entire year . For federal waters. That was the original season for 2017. We have since published a subsequent regulation that is extending that season for some 39 days i believe now. That is being litigated or challenged, but i dont know what the outcome of that will ultimately be. And maybe litigator or challenged by their doing it right now. And dr. Quinn, i know youre in a different region up there, but a lot of the same principles apply. When you are making the assessments that mr. Oliver talked about, theres a lot of sources for that. How much do you depend on in terms of recreation users reporting data, and how do you see that . The reason im asking this is, my exposure is the recreational people. They are the ones who feel like theyll get it at shorthanded steak and i want to see how you view them enter input shorthand of the stick. I think recreational fishermen are very important on the east coast in particular in new england. We use data that they gather in our assessments. Every Regional Science Center has a way to plug in this recreational data into their stock assessments. The question is were going to make sure its highquality data that we plugged in and what gets plugged in to the process. Our council has a great with the recreational industry and we will work with them closely to get additional data. How do you do this . Again and talk about South Padre Island or the south coast of texas. Every once in a while with no warning, no predictability we have a thing called the red tide. Red tide comes in, dramatically changes the population of fish and all that. How does the unknown factors, how do you address those in making the assessments that are necessary . Over time youd have the impact of that is not going to be able to be seen that day, the day the red tide comes in for some catastrophic situation. Its more timeseries analysis and over the long term see what happens if theres a trend created the will be a decline n stocks. So at the point in time the red tide comes in you cant really make the assessment. Its more longerterm. Well, my time is expired but im very interested in how this works out in terms of the federal versus the state, and i appreciate that. Thank you stand in awe. Senator blumenthal. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and thank you for having this hearing. Noaa welcome and i want to express my respect for long history of involvement in this issue, both academically and in public service. Im sure youve talked to the fishing fleet in new england, and then you go out in the water and to do this incredibly hard work. The fleets of connecticut and massachusetts and new england have a proud, long, storied history as a key element in our economy and they are angry and frustrated beyond words, at least beyond words that i could repeat in these chambers, and youve heard the very earthy and direct epithets that ar that iso describe the system we have now, and in my view, with profound justification because it has failed the fishermen of new england. That fishing fleet is struggling. The effects of Climate Change have driven the fish that they customarily catch north, and it is driven other fish from southern areas into our area, but they catch limits have not changed, and so what did scene is that they haul a catch beyond their permissible quota of certain fish to have to throw them back. There is a billions of dollars are trash and her oceans annually, and meanwhile fishermen from other Southern States coming to their waters and catch their fish. There is something profoundly unfair and intolerable about this situation. In my view it violates the present law, the Magnuson Stevens and act which says and i quote any Management Plan code shall not discriminate between residents of different states in the quote and must allow quotas that are quote fair and equitable end quote. You have said in your testimony that we need more flexibility but the fishing fleets of new england have run out of patience, and i think theres a need for sweeping, radical, immediate change to accommodate the dwindling and dining industry that is essential to our economy, would you agree . I would agree in part. I think, i would like to call the new england fishing industry a tale of two industries. Parts of it, the scallops industry booming. Oftentimes many boats from weight far south as north keller, fish. On the ground fish side you are correct. Theres been a very struggling industry over time pick some of the catch limits in aco we put in place were based on stock assessments that were performed with industry involved in with the science and politics into difficult challenge for the ground fish fleet but not necessarily for the scout and as a all industries, and for our fishermen, our new england fishermen, prosperity for the South Carolina or North Carolina fishing industry, we wish them well but they are not doing us any good, very simply, thats the anger and frustration that i feel on their behalf and certainly they feel it even more directly. Ive been on the docks and in their towns, and we need better answers to that. Would you agree . I dont disagree and i think the Council Process is to collect as much data as we can get to have accurate stock assessments. I think with u. S. State of connecticut theres been this northerly move of fishing stock, lobsters and other species have moved north. We dont have a simple solution for that water temperature raising or the Ocean Acidification. It is due to Climate Change, i agree, but it also would respectfully suggest that the data is there. The facts are known. Theres clearly a need to change this system, and my time is going to expire. I have a question for mr. Oliver, but i would again respectfully suggest that the present system is far from satisfactory. Its a downright failure and id like to talk to further about what we can do to improve it. I be happy to, sender. Thank you. Mr. Oliver, my question to you concerns the budget submitted by the president of United States. We are here today to discuss fisheries and other health, including shellfish. Shellfish have a rich history in connecticut, rich in our culture and rich in our economy. Im working hard to preserve and sustain opportunities in that sector in our fishing economy. Thats why i am so concerned about president trumps proposed budget, among other reasons that im concerned. That budget slashes funding for programs like sea grant and funding for the milford lab in milford connecticut and the university of connecticut. They are doing Pathbreaking Research in areas that concern our fishing industry, these the research efforts, to help grow and expand certain forms of agriculture, in effect, aquaculture. Very, very promising, important for the entire country. So as a representative of this administration how can you justify these proposed cuts in noaa programs that you are responsible for administering . Well, senator, i dont know that i any position to comment very extensively on the president s budget. I do know that they placed a a revised emphasis on the department of defense and National Security im on the Armed Services committee, and i very much support that emphasis and its incorporated in the ndaa, which i felt to approve through the Armed Service committee for it will come to the four of the senate probably next month. I supported. It was passed unanimously, but this kind of slashing and trashing of programs that are essential to the programs you administer that are vital to our Economic Future in aquaculture and agriculture, i consider a mockery of the mission of your agency. And if you are not in position to justify it, who would be . I just want to say to you, im not a being personal about it. You hear as a representative of the administration. I know your heart might be in the right place but i want to know how you can possibly justify it. I could say is well do our best to operate within the packet that we have. I know that a lot of the programs that were slated to be cut involved cooperative agreements, has Grant Funding to the Sea Grant Program, for example, and grants to the coastal states. Were going to do our best to make that in truly. Are you going to commit to me that you can make up those cuts to the Sea Grant Program and the milford lab and university of connecticut that are essential to those programs . I cant commit that were specifically going to be able to make those up from our baseline budget. I think we are facing some tough decisions, too. Ive said on many occasions that i feel that this agency may be in a position to refocus on some of its very core missions, science missions. You would agree with me those are valid and important programs . Of course, i really do. My time has expired so i want to continue this question with you, guess if you agree these programs are valid and there can be no question that they are, i think your agency has a responsibility to fight for the end to make sure they are fully funded. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator blumenthal. With regard to the budget i think well be taking a hard look at some of these programs work my own view is some of them are critical and im not sure they will survive the cats will survive what we i encompass to e attic will have, at a lot back to the ones we think are vital. But i know, noaa you are only four weeks on the job so i know every element of the various probably not a good, is not at your fingertips. We recognize it. Im going to asked just a few more questions. We have a distinguished panel here and want to take advantage of opportunity to get your thoughts and views on the record. Both of you talked about, mr. Oliver, you talked about in your testimony, the issue of kind of what, how we need to look at the neepa process. For example, mr. Oliver, many in the North Pacific have expressed support for neepa efficiency process within to reduce redundancy. Do you have a personal view on that or does agency of personal view . And in related, dr. Quinn, can you elaborate a little bit more on the ccc concern over the application of nepa requirements to the analysis of the Fisheries Management acts . These are kind of related questions. You both have highlighted them, and id like to get your views. Its an important issue. Go ahead, mr. Oliver. Ill start. Mr. Chairman, senator, i have a long history in my previous life dealing with the reconciliation of nepa and magnuson. I participated in a working group of the ccc following the 2006 reauthorization where there was a directive provision in the act for the secretary working with the councils to reconcile and streamline and i forget the exact wording of the statute. Basically reconcile, the intersection of magnuson and nepa, and i participate on a working group for a number of years to try to achieve that goal. While this Current Administration that i am now representing does not have a position on this, i can tell you from my experience in that process that we did not, in my opinion, address the directive in the provision come in that act. We essentially ended up in a place where we largely cemented, if you will, the existing nepa process. I dont think, i think that we did not satisfy the provisions that way that directive, and to think that leaves us with the potential opportunity to look at that again. I will say on the other hand, however, that over the intervening years weve gotten very good through the Council Process and to the agency, the National Fisheries service, weve gotten very good with our nepa compliance, using nepa as the vehicle for fishery management actions. We are not losing lawsuits anymore. So weve gotten good at it but i personally have always believed that the magnusonstevens act as he appropriate vehicle for the Processing Development and promulgation of Fisheries Management actions i still believe that to be the case. I think its an area, as were looking at reauthorization, we should entertain ideas the way the North Pacific Fisheries Management council is looking at, as you mentioned previously. Dr. Quinn, you touched on this in your written testimony. Do you care to elaborate a little bit more . Ill add a few things, mr. Chairman. The ccc believes wild nepa adds additional complexity after the Council Takes action always the implementation it lengthens out the process. In addition to some degree it confuses the public because youre going down to tracks of public, their gift to different statutes with two different sets of timelines, and rather than encourage more participation it may discourage it. On occasion they use the nepa process, what may be an additional alternative in place that was not considered at the council level. Oftentimes the ccc position is misinterpreted as being opposed to Public Participation or being a post to sharing Additional Information with the public, and i contain nothing can be further from the truth. We believe we have a rigorous process in place in the magnusonstevens act, full participation by citizens, by groups. We dont think we need to follow the nepa process as well, we believe its redundant and unnecessary. Again i think particularly given your role on the ccc and that is kind of a broadbased Consensus Organization among all of the councils, if that is one of the views in an area that we think is right for consensus, i think its something we should be looking at. Let me ask more broad question for you, mr. Oliver. Given sector across focus on growing the domestic fishing industry in fishing production secretary ross, which all of us welcome, how do best think you can promote u. S. Fisheries . You and i talked about the export issues were able to get language in trade Promotion Authority that for the first time focuses on fishing exports and unfair subsidies for foreign fleets. What are other things that you could be doing to promote a gold i think most of us certainly agree with . Well, this may sound a little bit repetitive, to some of my earlier comments. There is some headroom in our domestic harvest potential. I mention the west coast situation where they are leaving fish in the water due to, partly due to choke species, partly due to some lingering regulatory constraints that may or may not be any longer necessary. I think there are opportunities in some of our data fisheries wilwhere he talked again about flexibility in our annual catch limits and rebuilding schedules and some of the Accountability Measures. Again i think there are some opportunities for us to maximize that, and again im a Firm Believer and science base all raw catch. Its been a cornerstone in the North Pacific for four years but within that overarching longterm conservation construct i think there are opportunities. And again, in the area of marine aquaculture theirs, i think thats her more headroom is, if you will in terms of growing our production. And competing more in the world market in terms of this whole import export unbalance that we are currently on the short end of. I think those are probably a great deal of potential there in the marine aquaculture area. Thank you. Senator booker. Thank you very much, senator. I heard at all because of the important issues that were discussing today but also to keep really appreciate that. Thank you very much. Im here for you. I have your back. Thank you very much for being here for the truly important issue. Mr. Oliver, you just said something that makes him want to jump in have this be my first question. About 10 of the worlds fish catch is discarded as i catch. More than 22 billion pounds of fish the year is what they estimate that is, of just by catch. This is fish that are not intend to be caught by the end of being a result of our methods. In recent years in the United States we discover over 600 Million Pounds of fish annually and some fisheries discard over 60 of the catch as by catch. I just find those numbers astonishing and even unacceptable. And i think we could do better than doing that kind of damage to the wildlife in the ocean to im wondering if you commit to focusing on the issue of i catch more so in your role if you see it as anything we can do, any ideas about strengthening existing by catch provisions in the magnusonstevens . I do. Senator, by catch and by catch reduction has long been a focus and a goal of the agency. Its also a goal that supported by the councils and the council system. Many of the councils have, take Great Strides to reduce my cats pick some of the bycatch is economic discards, too small or for whatever reason, are thrown over. A lot of the bycatch that occurred are regulatory discards is that there are certain regulations in place that prohibit people from retaining or selling bycatch, and the recent primary for that is to keep them from targeting it when they are not supposed to be targeting it. And then you get to the question, well, theres bycatch and then theres waste. Part of the point of the question was waste, and in my own experience in our pacific fisheries several years ago we implemented what was originally called a full retention, full utilization requirement for several of our large fisheries were if the premise was you keep it, you catch it, you keep it coming accounts against the quarter. Accounts against the cord what you throw it away or not but it is a waste. We did not like the waste of all that fish. We backed off the 100 for a variety of practicality reasons, but the essence of that is we reduced discards to the program by millions of pounds a year, hundreds of thousands of tons a year of discards. I think of the councils have done similar things. There are still regulatory discards in place that i think shouldnt be in place are need to be carefully reevaluated. Mr. Oliver, youre filibustering on about out of town. Can we do better . And what you focus on trying to do better . Yes. They give her much. Im going to try to get another question in your that jim is pretty strict with time limits. In 1996, rebuilding requirements and shortly thereafter, 92 fish stocks what in identified as overfished. Not like 2006 only three of those fish stocks had been rebuilt. The 2006 magnus stevenson reauthorization act respond by requiring annual catch limits and by requiring that rebuilding plans and overfishing immediately. By 2016 the United States and rebuilt an additional 38 stocks, something we should be proud of and we now have the lowest level of overfished stocks in our entire history le since weve been recording this. In light of the success decreed the annual catch limits are a critical tool for managing fisheries . How to respond to calls for even more flexibility on catch limits and rebuilding timelines . Iq the call from great folks in my state who are calling for more flexibility. Im wondering how you balance that . Senator, i think it is a balancing act. As i stated previously and to my experience in the North Pacific i have a Firm Believer in annual catch limits. Its been a cornerstone our successful management, i also believe there are opportunities where we can have it both ways. I there are opportunities for additional flexibility in how we apply annual catch limits to subsequent Accountability Measures and in those rebuilding plans where we can achieve some flexibility that people are seeking without rolling back our Conservation Successes and without resulting in additional overfished stocks. I think we can balance it. Mr. Chairman, maybe i can you can go on as long as you want. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you very much for being so generous with your time. No problem. Last question. Just another of my concerns about the larger ecological challenges we have as a go for trying to sustain what is a critical industry for my state that provides a tremendous source of Economic Development as well as jobs, but to achieve the sustainable fishery management, managers must consider that balance between the ecological needs and also the commercial recreational value of fishing. That includes managing foraged fish that larger species depend upon. New jersey and the midatlantic region as whole have made considerable strides to improve the sustainability of these important fish. But nationwide i feel we need to be doing more. In many instances there are no federal Management Plans for foraged species. What can noaa fisheries and the councils do to improve foraged fish measures of fishermen and coastal committees can continue to enjoy the benefits of healthy foraged fish stocks . I totally agree with you, the importance of foraged fish in the overall ecological picture, thats a critical aspect of that. I keep falling back, North Pacific experience, but we amend banned fishing for number foraged fish species during two decades ago for those very reasons. I think there are probably different regions that dont fully understand. I think it goes back to that balancing act, and i guess i very much appreciate and understand your comments and affords of foraged fish, and to think its up to each counselor to the agency to make sure that we are protecting those taste te need to be doing for the larger ecological processes. We cant maintain longterm sustainability of our target fisheries and less we managed improperly in and of themselves and unless they have an adequate forge a base so they are both very important. Just yes or no because another commitment id love to get from you. You know shark fin he was first outlawed in u. S. Waters in 2000. The loophole and that original law was closed by the shark conservation act of 2009. I recently asked or offers how many shark feeding investigations noaa is open since january 1, 2010. I was shark to find out since 2010 shocked over five and incidents of alleged shark gaming. As of april there are seven shark fin in cases that were open but not yet charged. I guess i as for assurances we just keep me informed of the progress on investing these outstanding cases and can you assure me you and your agencies will take this seriously . To me its a horrific act, shark fans have no nutritional value whatsoever. They do serious damage to that species as i just hope to get from you the assurances that the agency tasked with investigating these wedges continue to make progress and maybe you can keep me informed of that progress. Yes, and yes. Thank yothank you very much. I just want to note for the record the grace and generosity of the presiding member, senator sullivan. As always, senator booker, ive got your back. Im going to wrap up the hearing with the just two more questions for both of the witnesses. Again i want to take advantage of having to outstanding witnesses here. Dr. Quinn, what are some of the problems, in some ways it does follow up on senator booker slanted questioning. What are some of the problems that Councils Face when managing fisheries that catch a number of different stocks, what is the ccc position on the use of catch shares . Mr. Oliver, if you want to weigh in on this question we would welcome that as well. Why dont i start with the second question first if thats okay, mr. Chair. I think the catch shares certain have been very successful in some parts of the country, that different councils, and others including mine may have been far more controversial to the ccc position, it should be a tool in the toolbox for Regional Councils to determine if that works best for them. Theres the old saying one size does not fit all. I think this is quite appropriate with the catch shares that it may work in some regions. It may not looking others so we should stay in but as an option not as amended. And the first question i asked about some of the challenges of, that the Councils Face spermatic particularly in new england, its a very big challenge because youve got the fish are swimming together, and one stock maybe must or valid account not just financial but ecological, but the act treat all species the same. So you cannot pick winners and losers. Its important that we collect a lot of data on it. This term that mr. Oliver said is a choked species, and particularly as we move into the ecosystembased Fisheries Management is going to exacerbate the problem as well because were trying to manage a stock, not just one individual species. Mr. Oliver, do you have any comments on those questions. I think my comments are very similar to dr. Quinn. We have a mixed stock fishing and sometimes thats problematic. Sometimes its not if all the species you happen to be catching her species that are currently open and your markets for them. Its not a problem. The problem comes into play when youre targeting one species and catching another that may be seen as an economic discard species or particularly when youre catching a species that either of bycatch or a target species the press a choked target species and thats where the difficulties in management come into play. To briefly address your question about catch shares, i know catch shares were huge priority for the previous administration. I dont come visit mr. Schatz and taken a formal position on catchshares. My personal expense the summer to dr. Quinn. An incredibly important tool is used in most of our major fisheries. In a group alaska for example, i think two things. Dash i do believe that whatever legislation occurs or we have current legislation if theres been legislation, i think it really needs to maintain a maximum regional flexibility we can. Because so many of our fisheries are so different, and the way you constructed these different catch Share Programs is very dependent on the specific characteristics and nuances of each fishery i would just urge that the maximum flexibility and first of all whether or not we use a catch Share Program but have a design that catch Share Program. Thanks. Let me wrap up with one final question, and do want to complement both of you on both not only your emphasis on the reports of data and science. Were going to back you up with that. We need that. Thats critical to wellmanaged fisheries. I know thats been the experience of both of you, so i think thats an area where usc bipartisan agreement on. But a final question. Ive certainly heard a lot of this and alaska. In other hearings i know its an issue on different regions of the country, and its treated differently in terms of how its funded or subsidized, but as you know fishermen in some regions have complained about the cost of onboard observers and of question whether emerging technology such as electronic monitoring might be less expensive and provide comparable or even possibly better information for fisheries managers. Does the msa provide counsel for the flexibility to use alternative technology such as electronic monitoring . Again, question for both of you. What additional tools can congress provide to speed up their use . I think its again an important question. In my state where theres barely room for an additional person on board and get they have to do that. It can be burdensome but we want the correct data, but there might be much more efficient ways of doing this. So do you have of you on that, both of you . Ill leadoff. Very similar answer as the catchshares. Theres been an act to put electronic monitoring in place, and again one size does not fit all. Regions have specific industries, specific fisheries that may and may not be on the size of the vote and a host of other things. Theres a lot of pilot programs and of the work being done on electronic monitoring i think to have the flexibly as one of the tools and the toolbox to make a decision region i region if thats the best way to go. I would just echo the importance of electronic monitoring options as an option for different fisheries. Does Congress Need to do more to make that clear, that that is a viable option . I dont know that theres more than has to be done. I know we have successfully or implementing electronic monitoring options at a number of our fisheries. I just signed a rule last week that formally brings electronic monitoring into our North Pacific Observer Program for the fisheries off alaska as an option to a human observer, as you point out, senator burr in many of the small boat fisheries that we want information on, they are simply unable to accommodate a human observer. While cameras may not be free or even as, less costly as many people thought they might be, they probably still are less costly than human observer, and certainly can perform functions that we need. We have cameras in some of the large offshore factory votes as well, inside the Processing Plant for different reasons. But the reports of being able to use them take on the smaller boats is absolutely critical. Wellness and come up like to thank both the witnesses for well listen, for your past service to our country in this critical area, and certainly theres a strong interest, i think i bipartisan interest to work closely with the two of you as we move forward on ideas and consensus for nsa reauthorization. I think this is an important start. And if, we will keep the record of this during open for two more weeks if there are additional questions from members who cannot make the hearing and still a question for both of you. With that a hearing is adjourned. Thank you again for attending. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]
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