Transcripts For CSPAN2 Flying 20240703

Im brad warthen and welcome to the new debrief. Were here to listen to Dennis Dupuis tell about his experiences in vietnam, where he served two tours. Tours as a helicopter pilot. The first, starting with is just 19 years old. Thats why he calls his program from high school to Flight School. Dennis is one of several men in his family, some of whom are here who proudly serve their country in wartime, in the second world war, korea and vietnam. He also continued to serve many years after his return, and the South Carolina National Guard. And as yall just saw, we have some other guests here today, a crew from cspan, which is not one of our programs, might be worth broadcasting nationally. So hello to america from the relic room. This is an accredited museum that honors the long military tradition of our state, from the revolution to the present. A recent major addition to the museum is the exhibit a war with no front lines. South carolina and the vietnam war, 1965 to 1973. In keeping with that theme we have lately presented a number of live programs such as this, in which Vietnam Veterans join us to tell their stories. Please welcome our speaker, dennis depuy. Thank you, brad. Im proud to be here today and thank them for giving me this opportunity. I want to thank everybody that came, especially the Vietnam Veterans. Welcome home, guys. For family members that served at home while we were away. Thank you for what you did and all the citizens that are here. Thank you for coming. And today, im honored. Talk a little bit about what inspired me to be a helicopter pilot. I went to Flight School and then my tours in vietnam, particularly the first tour of my inspiration was my father saying here on the left picture on the far right, starting at age 24. And this picture was taken the day that general westmoreland, colonel westmoreland became a general and went to the nco club to celebrate with him in the picture on the right is a some cousins and im very proud of my dad was two who flew forties during world war two. They had three brothers that flew al atkins, then flew in the navy and survived the war. His youngest brother, robert edward. When my flight to be 40 in china. But he crashed in burma. And peter w who was a test pilot for general schnall and the original vgs, who died in a test flight in october 41, about six weeks before pearl harbor. Dad used to talk about his atkinson cousins who flew in world war two. And he was so proud of them. I could see it in his eyes when he read me a book about flying tigers. And i went to my dad to be that proud of me. Someday. So along with dads relatives, they were he was born on indian reservation and goes back to full name, not timothy, who means hes in the history books is no heart, but it literally translates to no heart of fear. And revolutionary war Lieutenant Colonel richard campbell, who fought at the second battle of camden at hopkirk hill back in 96, in 1781, and died at utah springs in october 1781 and was buried on the field. So military ethos and warrior ethics goes way back, and my family, another inspiration was my brother bruce, whos here today. And im very proud of him. And so thats what i wanted to do, was make my dad proud of me. So we went to basic training at fort polk, louisiana, with a lot of other helicopter pilots and then ended up in fort walton, texas, for primary Flight School for four or five months. And i flew these things thats called a metal messerschmitt to 50 part that was made by hughes aircraft. And there had to be thousands of them in the air. Now that were training so many helicopter pilots in 1968, especially after 1068, that it was just amazing. All my instructors were worn officers and what they brought me through primary, it taught me how to hover, taught me how to fly. Traffic patterns, taught me how to navigate, tell me how to land in confined areas. And after five months in fort walton, we moved to a hunter army airfield, went through the gate there. We went through dallas, and on the right there you can see it from picture from the Bell Helicopter plant. While the army was training and thousands, a helicopter pilots, they were making many, many helicopters right there in fort worth. Now, mineral wells, when we got there, there were main heliports, which are ive annotated with a yellow triangle. Theres two of them on there. And thats where you originally flew out of. And then ty went to stage fields. When i got a little blue arrows marking those, just some of them. Theres many, many stage fields. And thats where we learned to hover and do traffic patterns and just a little note of interest, fort walters, texas, is where audie murphy took basic training. So i guess thats why they sent helicopter pilots there. I went to savannah to finish advanced helicopter and that was four months worth of training. We started out no. 58 or excuse me, 13, which were like the Bell Helicopter on mash. And we learned to fly instruments with 50 hours. And then we moved to the magnificent huey helicopter with a jet engine and all these instruments. And it was the one we were going to fly in vietnam. So i graduated. When i graduated on june the 30th, 1969. In the right there, youll see my brother on the left after he returned from vietnam. Hed been back probably three months. And theres my dad who had been back from vietnam about a year. And four months. And brand new warrant officer dennis dupuy on the right, 19 years old, on the right over here. I had my brother bruce and his wife, annie. Bruce was wounded two times in vietnam and recovered in country and met annie, who was a nurse at the 71st evac hospital. They dated. They came back to the world and they got married. And then annie loved my brother so much. I think she might have shot in the second tower just so she could take care of him. Now, bruce laughs, but he didnt think that was it, funny. So i graduated the third days leave. I went home to vietnam, so i must stop here for a minute and ask for questions and clear up just a couple of questions. Then. But has any about helicopter Flight School. Anybody . Yes. Was it hard to get in to Flight School . Oh, no, not hard at all. When i went down and talked to recruit, i told my dad i was going to go. I want to go to helicopter Flight School. And hed been in the army and 29 years or so. And he told me, he said, son, be careful since youre going to go down and see the recruiter. And hes going to see your mechanical ability and hes going to want to sign you up to go to mechanics, crew, chief, school so that you get experience around the helicopters so that youll be better pilot when you go to Flight School. He said, dont believe that. He says, stick to it. Tell me you want to go to Flight School. And sure enough, when i went, thats what the guy asked me. And i think you ought to be a mechanic first. And not only go to Flight School. So if you passed the test with a score of a good score and were physically able to pass the flight physical, you were accepted in the Flight School and then when we got to Flight School, my class started with. Over 301 off four candidates and probably 120 commissioned officers. We graduated. About 181 officers and overflow went to savannah because fort rucker didnt have the airspace for this increased load need for a helicopter pilot. They didnt have the airspace. We didnt have the helicopters that didnt have a maintenance schedule. And so the overflow went to Hunter Air Force base and. We took 61 off the candidates, two hunter and i think about 60 Commission Officers and took four months there. But it all depends what you applied for. We had some guys that were Prior Service that were sergeants that applied to go to Flight School and they were accepted. And when i got fort walton, i found out there was quite a few mechanics. There had been to vietnam and now theyre going to go back to helicopter pilot. So that gave me some real good advice. Q thank you. Hello, lynn. I played with this guy for a long time on National Guard, and i want to tell you that nothing is going to ruin any of my war stories like the truth. So i expect you to just hold on that i. All right. Lets go to lets go to vietnam, back. Beginning august 1969, i got on an airplane that gets to georgia after a night of celebration and went to atlanta, changed airplanes to go to california with a stop in dallas. Well, i went to sleep on the airplane between after we left atlanta and they landed in dallas. And the stewardess woke me up and says, were in texas. And i went, im going to california. And i went back to sleep. Well, we got california and i went down to pick up my duffel bag and i waited for the baggage come through. And i was not many duffel bags and i thought there was more than then. I never did find a duffel bag. So i went to the baggage claim. I said, hey, you know, wheres my bag . And he says, and let me see your ticket. And he looked at ticket. He says, your bags probably in san francisco. Youre in los angelus. Thats supposed to change your plane to dallas. And i didnt make that. So i ended up going to oakland. When we got to oakland, one of the guys in my flight class with Jim Willingham and his father, he lived in right outside of california. And jim, mr. Willingham worked for caterpillar and hed given everybody a Business Card and told us in when we got there to call, calling. So after i checked in, i called him up and he told me to meet him at a bar. Where . Down there. There was three or four guys from my flight class. There and mr. Willingham showed up. He took us to his house where there was 12 or 15 more guys in my class that had been there for maybe two or three days or one day, or got there that morning. And he was letting me stay at the house until they got the port call. And so we had like a mini reunion there, mr. Willinghams house and told us when we got to vietnam to let him know where it was. And we all wrote him letters when we got to our unit. And about once a month, if you wrote him a letter, he made a newsletter and his secretary at work put it together and mailed it to all of us. It was a wonderful, wonderful thing that mr. Willingham from california did for us. And im thankful for that. Theres some good stories about vietnam, and we just need to tell them that. So i write in vietnam and ben to we landed a cut the airplane off of and opened up the door to hot humid Tropical Heat came in there and the stench of a third world country with open sewers and everything just invaded the airplane. And it was not a pleasant experience. And then we had a group of employees come on board and briefed us on the ride from ben. What a long bin. And how dangerous is going to be and walks daily and get on the bus. And we did that and the bus had grenade screens on it and went through downtown and there was no vietnamese on motorcycles and bicycles and walking along. And we just thought every one of them was vc and they were all going to throw a grenade at us. But that didnt happen. They were just we were just scared. A couple of days of the replacement depot got assigned to the First Aviation brigade, went to Group Headquarters in canto, and they went to the 13th battalion. The delta battalion combat aviation battalion, and start training and then ended up going to bennelong where i was in the 1 14 knights of the air, and that was from august. 69 oh to october. One of the things we did, an Assault Helicopter Company was make combat assaults. We loaded up with troops in one place and carried them to where they were going to engage in a battle. Theyd fight there. And when it came time to pick up, wed go back and get them in a pickup. So and take them back to their home base. Usually in a 1 14 that was a flight of three with some gun cover that covered us in and out and i started there, got a few hours and started doing night missions, started flying on about the 16th of august. My birthday was 20th august. I turned 20 years old and by the end of august, the first night of september, we went to a place called mokwa, where we were doing standing by for 40 ship lifts. Night missions were we didnt have night vision goggles. It was just make the eyes and we flew formation and the guns followed us. We had a command and control helicopter that was going to guide us into them wherever the ground commander wanted. So we went out for look while we went a little bit west to a place called beatty and landed in special forces camp. And when the guys came out there, they werent the same guys that we picked up during the daytime. The guys were the enemies. We picked up in the daytime, had starched uniform arms and brightly colored patches and shined boots and these guys that came out to the aircraft were in camouflage, wrinkle up camouflage, and they were actually mercenaries that worked with special forces on the border. And we loaded mountain three aircraft, took off, went back east towards mokwa. We saw the flare ship dropping three flares at a time to light the way to the lc open and they drift down a little bit. So we turned final and headed for the lc and i was in a trailer ship being the new guy on the map so i could learn the area. And i told them, mr. Wilson, who was the aircraft man whod been there probably six months, i says, were getting close to the border and he says, being a new guy and not really know me, he says, are you sure thats yeah, im yeah, well, im pretty sure. Let me check the map again. So were constantly heading towards the border. We get closer and closer and closer. Its a surveyed line in the plain of reeds, just a grassland, kind of like down around buford, where you go out to the park and its just tidal basin. It was like that. No, no geographic marker, no road, no canal, anything like that. At the border. So we approached into the buffer zone and then we approached in a no fly zone. I tell you, im sure were headed towards cambodia. And when he made that call to lead, lead, of course, questioned the new guys navigational skills. Could you get me that water, please . Like, im going to have time to open it up and drink it. Thank you. And where were we . We were on the way to cambodia. So its nighttime. Were flight three and a v. Were flying off the right side. We start descending, starting our approach and the approaches over a wooded area into an open, grassy area. And. At about 100 feet, we fly over this tree line, headed towards a clear grassy area and automatic weapon opens up and shoots green tracers directly into the lead helicopter. Im looking at the lead helicopter. Im close to the controls in case my aircraft commander gets hit, that ill be able to take over. And im focused on him because were flying formation and hes just being hit with his green tracers. I am being in country three weeks yet. The first time i ever seen this and all of sudden they hit the engine and the engine puked up hot parts like it was Bottle Rocket at the backside and it started to descend quicker. Well, the engine, it quit. And then there was a fire back there and it hit the ground so hard that it bent the skids. And were trying to match his rate. And he it starts to be on fire and we land and touch the back of the skids and the guys are jumping off. We start to take off and his flames are higher and bigger and brighter. And theres no way in hell anybody could have survived it. And so the two guys, two other aircraft take off to the north further in cambodia. And as we leave the light nighttime and the light of that burning ship, we are swallowed up by the darkness and it feels then like were a little bit safer and we keep kind of low and increase our speed so we can climb higher and get away from these guys and we head back towards mokwa land there and want to know whats going on. The command and control ship is calling mayday, mayday, mayday. An american helicopter down ten miles north of mach one on guard an emergency frequency that we monitor and we hear the air force respond and theyre going to send one of the a spooky or above or fixed wing aircraft that has a lot of firepower over here. Now provideer. And when the cobras come back and they re armed and they go back out and finally the s. S. Comes in to get more fuel, were briefed on that. All the guys, our guys somehow or another made it out of that aircraft. But two americans were wounded and theyve got them with them and theyre evading to the east. There was a piece of cambodia that came down in like a wing, and we landed inside the wing and they were going to the east and about. We werent we were just told to stand by. We wanted to go get help, get our guys. But they had coordinated with the medevac because the adviser, lieutenant michael burns, had been injured. But up we recovered him a medevac. Come in, drop the crew off and the mission was over. The newspaper article on the side over there is from the stars and stripes and it describes from the stars inscribed a couple of weeks later how an Army Aircraft just happened to be on the vietnam side of the border and got shot, made an Emergency Auto rotation a mile into cambodia, which meant he had to be a mile high. And theres no way in hell you had that kind of glad distance. And the two other aircraft going in there to rescue me, a few facts, right . But for the most part, an entire ticle is bogus. But that was published in stars and stripes. So thats september, october rolls around and i get transferred because the was quite a fewuys on that flight that were upset with the command. I get transferred bearcat to the 3 35 assault helicopter tour and our calligns the slicks were cowboys and the guns were the falcons. And i was bearcat from october 69o october 70. There it is. Heres a map you can see up in the top left that saigon. Ben, while long bean and down here where the red arrow is is a bearcat base camp near longtown t, a world war two. Japanese frplanes out a long thats how long had been. There are a normal area of operations are al was about an hour and 30 minute flight to the southwest and weid that every day if we had a report time of 8 00 that meant we had to leave bearcat at 6 00 in the morning, get up at 4 00. So thats a kind of a picture of what bearcat looked like originally. It was one of the ninth infantry to vision basis. The ninth infantry left about a month before i got there. And again, this is a little map of where bear camp was. So witcowboys, i flew slicks, but this picture has me in a gunship. At the end of the tour, t slick guys got to ride in a gunship for a day and the guns got toiding a slick a day. They didnt want to do a combat assault, but we had some single Ship Missions that we call swing shifts where we would support the province, the special forces of that province, and wed make like a milk run. Wed started the headquarters with Operations Sergeant and he told us where to go and wed go around to the different power bases that was in his province and delivering mail for the day or bring a new guy to the outpost or pick up one that needed to come back into the headquarters. So we made that run in the morning and had lunch at the province headquarters and they had a lot, lot, lot better food than the missile did, and they were able to buy it food locally, fresh vegetables and meats and stuff like that. So that was always a special treat and it was a long day. It was usually about 10 hours the afternoon wed make the same, same run. So in december of 69, we have a single ship mission. December 7th where we go out and do this. In the middle of it. Theres a call for a they needed a patient taken to the hospital and we drop off everybody that was on board it downtown and we go over to pick this guy up. We thought it was a routine patient pick up when we went to land in this very small special forces camp with antennas and everything all over the place. And we start taking fire and we can we can see where theres a guy on a stretcher laying right outside a bunker. Well, as we attempted to land on top of them, the large command bunker, we started taking a lot of fire. So we decided to leave and try again. Well, we didnt communicate that to the crew chief. And the crew chief had jumped out on the top of the bunker to go get the guy. And when we left, we left him on the ground and we went up to altitude and we called for some gunship support from a nearby airfield that maybe there was some guns in traffic and a couple of crusaders, apache excuse me. Cobras answered the call and they came out and when we got ready to make the approach in there, robert luke was over by the stretcher on the ground and we went in, landed a little bit different place. The cobras shot up, shot at the people that were shooting at us and suppressed that fire. And robert luke picked this guy through over a shoulder and ran to the helicopter. Truman and jumped in. We didnt know that initially. When he jumped out, hit, knocked himself unconscious of that day robert luke gets a silver star. Thats december the seventh. January i am promoted with more responsibility. Become an aircraft commander to where i can participate as a commander of a ship to do combat assaults. Down here at the bottom, you see a sitting on the ground on standby and when we got another mission during the day, the guns had combined call up the leadership. The leadership would throw smoke out. Wed all crank come, would go do the extra mission in january. Ive been aircraft commander about three weeks and as an air firebase and so run this is all vietnamese with a couple american advisors and then they were awarded some medals for going in and picking these guys up. And we found out that day that the vietnamese, when we went to a place where theyd been overrun, we didnt get their wounded first like we do the americans. When you pick up a wounded american and you tell them, you know, if we get to the hospital within a an hour, its a golden hour. And chances are youll see that it helps motivate the rest of the guys, what with the vietnamese, if you bring their dead in. So their family can bury them and they go to their happy life here after that, provided the same kind of motivation to the vietnamese soldiers that getting the wounded for americans. We didnt understand it because we evacuated dead after dead after dead when this outpost overrun and some of the wounded that were there. First two trips probably died. In the meanwhile, we did not know, did not understand that that was the middle of january. February the fourth rolls around. We got a day mission and the guns launch early and they go out, meet with the ground commander. And theres a lot of vc activity and they start engaging them and the flight shows up and picks up. First load of troops and we start carrying troops into elss all day long. It goes into night and it was supposed to be the last mission. It was about 1 00 in the morning. We had. 16 hours of flight time during that day. We left at 6 00 in the morning here. It was one or 2 00 in the morning. So the flight is inbound to an lc and the ground commander changes his mind. Dont want him there. So we make a go round and we have to reposition and line up on another lc well, in the process of taking off and turning around and getting lined up for another one, the guns get a little bit confused about where they were and they knew that the new lc very handling falcon 88 six knew that the heaviest the fire was going to come from the right side and he was on the left side. So he called his wingman and told him, change positions. Jerry went over the not directly above the flight but went back behind him to slide over the right side. And eight zero was going to go under the flight and come up on the left side. Well, in the process of doing that nighttime, when no night vision goggles, it was all plain. We probably made a turn tighter and in a descent than what eight zero thought it was. And im flying to talk to off the lead werent staggered right and ive got a good side picture and got to be close enough to where the lights on top of the helicopter illuminate some detail. So you know how far away and were about 75 feet away, about three rotor disk. And all of a sudden, all of a sudden, theres a beamer along the side between me and lee. I thought i would say the things weve been planning. So it was there and it disappeared. I couldnt believe it. Not i thought i was imagining things. And then over the radio i hear, mayday, mayday, mayday. Eight zero going down. Well, we expect the trail ship was the one that was supposed to pick anybody up a trail and fly to ten. And we expected mr. Williams, who was administered an officer, was out getting a couple of hours for a slight pay. We put him in the back so i wouldnt run into anybody. Well, that didnt quite work. And he wasnt paying attention. He didnt see a zeros lights. And i looked out over to my right still in this turn and i could see aircraft lights going away from us and going down. And the next call was even louder and more assertive and zeros going down and i looked over and i could see him and i started to pull out. And then he got some very loud and very aggressive and , eight zero is going down the column as a cowboys two ones got to they had him inside. I was about a quarter mile behind him and i followed him to the ground. He crashed, rolled. Over on side. No, i landed probably 30 seconds later. The crew got out and went to help get the guys out of the helicopter, came back to mine, and the whole time i was sitting there with the landing light on that crash helicopter, its just like a tunnel of light. And the aircraft is on its side and i was kind of training, i guess, so hard. I, i didnt hear any noises. I didnt hear anything over the radio. Ill just concentrate on what i could see and then pretty soon, here comes a crew chief and gunner. And the crew, and theyre coming back to the ship to get him on board. And we take off and the remaining gunship genuinely policies out until we get safe altitude. We take him to the hospital. Jerry turns around and goes back to the scene of the crash where theyre land and the rest of the helicopters and the bad guys, it already overrun the christ helicopter. So we got him out just in time. So we go to a bentley, which is next canto, drop them off the hospital, get some gas, go back to the area working on and all of a sudden where we couldnt get in would come helps you know the previous day and up into the night, all of a sudden theres all kinds of aircraft there. And the colonel from canto, the Group Commanders there and theres other airplanes stacked up every 500 feet. And i call into cowboy charlie, charlie. And i tell him, were off, were back in round to the tail and he says, oh, our tv bearcat, that means return to bearcat, return to base and we got a clear shot all the way back. So we get back. Milan. And so its just coming up and over into the revetment let it cool down for 2 minutes, shut the aircraft off and his air craft rotor slows down. Im starting to relax, my heartbeat slows down, and when it finally stops, i get out on take my Armor Protection off, climb out and the crew chief has turned down the blade. And he says, dennis, come here. I want to ask you something where hes turning down the blade on the bottom of the blade, theres a yellow scrape, just the width of a tail rotor, and it could have only come from one place. Wed have midair usually not survivable, but his tail rotor in that high bank left turn had contact and our rotor blade and we actually took his tail rotor out. And thats what caused the crash. So the missile had brought food out to us, which was rare because we usually didnt work for 24 hours. And i sat down on the bare aluminum floor of the helicopter with my legs dangling over side and started eating breakfast with the crew. There we were. Wed been in combat. Wed survived, and we were quite simply, alive. Life and death aint simple, but we were quite simply alive. It felt like a little boy sitting in a big chair. They so we bonded so that was february and a march 31st. And i got to read you this. We had aircraft crash in. The we were on a lift out of bantry to a tent ship lift. And when we first got there, we got another field, had been overrun and we went did the massive medevac for a that and then went back then trained, rearmed and refueled and started. Our next mission, which was a flight of ten. And we were taking them into nailsea. I went, oh, excuse me, were going to a party to pick them up. So i was the last ship. I was trail and it was going to be my responsibility to pick up anybody that went down. So our first trip into first trip into the ls peasy pickup. So was we had Perimeter Security and ground guys set up and protected them peasy pickup. So and as you as we picked them up they would come to the center of the party and we pick them up. And so the last lift the guys that were in the security perimeter would have to get on the helicopter and thats when the other guys would occupy the perimeter that they had established and wait for us to pick them up. So the last flight out of the pc was the one that you expect the most fire from. And we did. And before we took off, the lead was hit with an rpg rolled over the side, crashed and burned. I wrote this poem about this poem. It was the last flight out of that. P. S. On march 31st, 1970, the last lift out usually meant trouble, but our falcon gunships would give us cover, fly to tents, lakes, land to the east. I was trail my eyes alert, but my mind was on in the mail. Our falcons flew above us like a giant wheel and you just dont know how safe that made me feel. So when we were loaded with the troops, lead the game to rise to a three foot hover, which was no surprise they made a right turn to view the flight. Make sure everybody was picked up and it was clean and there was a flash of light. Oh, an rpg impacted with a blinding light. Well, lead crashed and burnt what looked like a slow motion roll. Get out of that pc was arrested. Flights go. A black Mushroom Cloud climbed above bright orange planes on the way out. Ill take four survivors and theyd have done the same. The cracked bullets splash here and there. And the falcon gunship rolled in hot. It was no time to be scared. So i flew forward where eight other slicks had just been, and our door gunner fired into the tree line again and again at the burning wreckage. I did a flare so i could see clearly flames out, so i could see two dead pilots where they should be. But there were two empty point seats where pilot should be. Hey, theres one of our guys getting a very loud shout. I landed the aircraft and the gunner jumped out. The crew chief and the copilot jumped out to help another guy and just like that, alone in the aircraft was a i watched my brothers carried to back to our but with two still missing how could we quit we found to survivors from a crew of four ak is still shooting at us. We could linger no more our door guns chattered iraq its impact on the left, then on the radio i called out. Im coming out to the west. You know, i looked, but i didnt see any more americans in that. Come in, charlie. Charlie miller and leonard are alive, but we dont know about if the others survived that time. I turned around and looked and burnt face and started to peel. But not one crew and not one crew member. In my was wounded. I think thats a real Kevin Crabtree had been thrust out of that orange fiery ball and not kimble shelden. Hes one name on the wall. March 31st, the very next day, instead of being trailed, i was the lead helicopter. And we go on to an lc. We picked up again, worked out of entry, picked up. Theres a bright, clear they flew out to where the falcons were prepping. Lc and we started inbound call 3 minutes and they started come out to pick us up and a Charlie Charlie said hey we got more guys now. So they turned around and went back. We orbited, we went for a second time. Same thing happened. They had called the falcons back. There was more guys in the lc third trip and went all the way and we landed and staggered right on the way in the tree line opened up. We could see the muzzle flashes and we could feel the impacts in the aircraft and out of corpsman larry goldsmith, who was about six years old, was the best. It was going to be the next aircraft commander was ready to be one. I saw his arm fly up like this and he goes, im hit. We were committed to land. I hadnt got on the ground yet. There. Guys in the back getting hit. Some of the inmates me and then a larry calls again he says im hit im hit over here you got hit three times on the way in on the way out. He was hit three more times. There were shot groups small in the windshield all that side. He survived. He went back to states and he died of agent orange in 2012. Thats my copilot. That was an lc. That was next day, april. So may rolls around the end of april rolls around its last day in april. And we get a Mission Assignment to be on station at 6 00. So that means we have to get up at to preflight leave it for and get to the about 100 5200 miles away. And this was the invasion of cambodia. We got refueled on the way, stop along where the mekong river comes out of cambodia and started the invasion. Now. There was more helicopters there and id ever seen even in Flight School, there was a whole 664th group. There was attack Helicopter Companies and chinook Helicopter Companies, and probably seven or eight asHelicopter Companies. And we landed in ald and our lead pilots went and got a iefing and we alw at when it was time crank in a situation like that, we would seti beacon. Come on, and we could hear him start. And that was a signal for everybody to start. So when that happened. I was full of anticipation. I was scared and i really wasnt sure what the consequences would be that day. It wasnt dday, but for us it was the same thing. And our mission that was to fly into cambodia, go up the mekong river and secure the ferry crossing from saigon to panama pin. So we secured the east side. Well, when lead turned on his beacon and pull that star in and start to crank, we turned on and as it slowly cranked and the rotation of the helicopter blades increased, it felt like the helicopter was coming alive until it got up to fly down to where it was getting close to normal operating r. P. M. And the road to war started to clear out the hot, humid air from the moist delta and it actually started cooled off and a little inside vietnamese troops load it on board when its our time to take off. We took door gunners to fire, but we encountered it was cold insertion. We didnt see any enemy that day and that was a good thing. We came back and stood by and made another trip up and that was the end of that. So next week we were supposed to support that invasion and. One day i was flying with a guy from fort kent, maine. His name was gary dumont, and we called him frantic and when he signed up for Flight School, he thought he was going to get to fly fixed wing because thats what he wanted. Fly main float planes and that kind of stuff. And so he wasnt real happy about being a helicopter pilot and he used to say if an egg beaters, thats all him. He wasnt real happy plan helicopter. But this particular day we were all floating some navy ships taken where they brought ammo up to support the invasion of cambodia and we had a cargo net and wed go in and hook it and bring it over to the rearm point, drop it and pick up a spare net and take it out to navy ship. And we were bringing these cargo nets full of ammo to the rearming point. Well, on one trip, the injured pilot came on and they were natori is for being false indications. So i had a new crew chief. We had the back, the gunner was on the ground guiding us guidance in where we could drop the load. And i said hey, i got to find out just how about check and see if were all right. And he walked back to the back of the helicopter and he announced over the intercom, were on fire. And he came back up between the seats. And he looked at me and he looked at me french and he goes, were on fire. Were on fire. And then ran out and goes, yeah, were on fire. Well, every time he moved it made this sailor gravity of the helicopter change. And so when he ran, we started to dive and when he ran back, we started to climb. And i just told him, sit down. And i punched off a and had a real steep approach with a right turn to land midfield and got down to the bottom and what poor pitch to land on the ground and the engine it quit. I was so busy thinking about the fire emergency procedure that i kind of quit flying the aircraft. I quit looking for other things to go wrong. It was a big lesson that i passed on to many people the next 30 years. Keep flying. The aircraft dont concentrate just on the current emergency. But look, so we landed, we got out and we ran away from the aircraft. French ran a whole lot faster. And i did. And when we got far enough way, we stopped and turned around to look. And there was a huey sitting there with a slow turn and rotor blades and black smoke coming up from the engine compartment and all these guys in the chinook there that were carrying and doing heavy loads to the actual point where the invasion was starting to run into the ship. Well, i knew they had big fire extinguishers that was on wheels for this big chinook. And i expected them to come out and start doing the firefighting. But that wasnt the case. They came out with movie cameras and five millimeter cameras and they got some real good pictures of our burn unit. Well, it just was smoking. Just a little bit of black smoke. So we thought, well, its not going to burst into flames. So we went back and there was an inspection port on the left side and kind of stood back and the crew chief took his gloved hand and went to look in there and a fuel control was leaking and it was what was burning. And so he got the power to put it out and he had one. And that was good. We made it. And then we heard this poof and that engine tech was so hot, it was still leaking fuel that it reignited when we didnt have any more fire extinguishers. And so we opened up the cowling and we went got sandbags, started throwing sandbags on it, and we eventually got it where would burn anymore . Well, the schnucks was generous enough to carry us hook us up and carry us out and take us back. Some of the guys. So lets see, that was me. We got back to bearcat and i was told, get in the jeep, went to operations and they found an aircraft to take me to bennelong for a special mission. And all i could think about was, gosh, this must be a prisoner snatcher. Visions of grandeur and doing something great started appearing. I was the only guy on the helicopter going to battalion, went down there and landed and he went to refuel and he landed on the col pad and i went inside. Whats going on . Gave me a said orders and it says. Here, take these. Youre a body escort, go to saigon. And my good friend george mason had died. George had died. Died in a chinook while resupply and he resupplied firebase ripcord and firebase. So riley was shot down and oreilly and so i came back to san francisco. I learned how to be a body escort. While they prepared, george put him on a commercial flight in the baggage area. And i was up top. We went to oklahoma. Sallys mom and dad had rode in the hearse to the funeral home. Three or four days are blank, but we had a Funeral Service at his high school that graduated from two and a half years prior. And i went to the cemetery and i presented this mason with a flag. I had rehearsed the little speech about his service and what the flag meant and everything, but it was hard to get out. I choked. I cried. She cried and we buried george. And we went by their farm. They called it the ranch and the major from fort sill told me the masons have requested you for two weeks to take care of some personal business. All i wanted to do is get back to my unit. I dont want to do is get back to the guys. I want to get back to vietnam without you. And so i asked mr. Mason there at the reception, this is a to kind of like get started on this. What is it you need me to do . And he reached inside the jacket to need one to the funeral and gave me a envelope. Built this envelope. He says, i need to take care of this. And i opened it up and it was a round trip ticket. They had bought a round trip ticket from Oklahoma City to augusta, georgia. He said, you go home, see your mom and dad. I had no thought about doing that. I and what a wonderful what a wonderful gift in their time of grief. Another good story. So i did that and went back to vietnam. When i got there there was a guy walk around with a hat on that had been in oklahoma on it. And i tell him i just came from there and i told him about george mason and he wrote his mom and come to find out, mrs. Crum, ron was there at georges funeral. Shed seen me, but i dont know where they met or not. But she helped console mrs. Mason during that process. July comes around, and i quit flying from the last 30 days. Im a scheduling officer. Wright has been there long enough to be an aircraft commander, and i signed him as First Mission as an aircraft commander. And by 12 00 that day, he did. I was 20 years old. Come back to the states for a year, work with the vietnamese being half vietnam students and 100 go to go to school, go back to vietnam as a cobra attack pilot. And we recon the ash valley primarily for six months, 102 down. We came home and i got out of the army. So i got anybody. Were going to ask for some questions now if can turn the lights up, is that time to do that . A couple of questions. I dont know what time it is here. We got about. About 10 minutes. So who has. Wheres microphone . Who has a question . Raise your hand, please. So lets wait. Wait for the microphone. You said when you went down that last time chinook took you out, it pulled out the whole helicopter. Yeah, it when you leave here, theres a couple of guys standing by some ammo crates with a cargo net and everything and theyre hooking up to a chinook. There was actually a crew that came out and would rig them a helicopter, tie the blades down. So they wouldnt float, put a drag chute on it, pick it up and fly back. I had a picture there earlier about the model that they brought back and they from about ten foot and it just broke in half. Okay. But the only reason they did that is it looked like the helicopter was survivable when everything like, oh, yeah, it was it needed a new engine, an engine deck and stuff like that. And there was a depot maintenance there. And if it wasnt good enough, theyd send it back to the states. We dropped another helicopter and we turn one in and get one and they fix it and send it back to vietnam. And later on somebody else got that after it was repaired. Okay, please. In your in your mission description, you said a lot about maxim. My hours of flying ten, 20 hours a day. What kind of downtime are rest time or recuperation time did you receive, if any at all, between your missions so you could get physically and mentally straight for your next combat assignment . Our own our missions were generated by the report that maintenance sent in evening before. If they said they expected to have ten helicopters, ten slicks or 18 slicks and a couple of guns, they sent that down to battalion. And when the battalion received mission request, they would look at how many aircraft you had and if they needed to combat assault, you had ten aircraft, they would tell you we need ten aircraft for a combat assault, a couple of guns to cover them. And a charlie. Charlie and above that, it was single out, two single Ship Missions. But as far as the pilots where i was, we had we had a 30 day running total and we would assign. Pilots the next day by who had the lowest amount of hours in the past 30 days. And when we divided that up, the lowest man hours usually went to the single Ship Missions that usually were about 10 hours a day. And the higher time pilots were assigned to the combat assaults, because sometimes they were only five or 6 hours a day. We had a nine day hour and a 30 day period which we were supposed to go see the Flight Surgeon be checked out to see if were okay. And we had 120 hour, 30 day limit. That was a brick wall. And you werent supposed to fly anywhere past that. Well, im here to tell you, the brick wall was tore apart with the needs of the of the infantry guys when they needed us. My high time for 30 day was 175 hours and 30 days in todays army guys are fly slicks. Theyre required to get 80 hours a year. I got 175 hours in a month. When i came home from, vietnam, i had 1155 combat hours. And that relates to today in a Peacetime Army that years of experience. I was 20 years old and had the equivalent of 15 years of flying service. You say you did you say you flew gunships . Yes second tour. I flew cobras with 101st. I got to go for a ride be model gunship one of the falcons because at the end of the tour, you know, everybody went to say, well, you know, i was able to fly at least one day. And usually the gun pilots wanted to fly on one of those swing ships, Single Missions where you got some good food to eat in the middle of the day. They usually had serrations over did you have a shoot em up mission. Yeah, we did. Yeah. Did you you know. Yes, sir. Did you have a favorite helicopter that you like, the flight that you would you know, like to fly . Oh, thats a favorite one. Thats a good question. Did i have a favorite helicopter . I was assigned to a helicopter and had my name when i became an aircraft commander. They had my name on it, but i didnt fly it all the time, the crew chief. And im going to flip that aircraft. Were responsible for the maintenance on the guns on the aircraft every time it flew, it didnt matter if it flew 10 hours one day and 20 hours the next day. They flew that aircraft. The pilots, based on their 30 day running total, flew different aircraft depending on what mission that aircraft. And we always didnt fly out to the aircraft sometimes we flew the other platoons aircraft but. Like i say, the pilots were assigned by the amount of time they had and the crew chief and they were going to stayed with their aircraft continuously thank i when it came time to wash it i was expected come out there wurschmidt aircraft right here please question you got to know when you did your second tour. What were the days of your second tour . A second tour. I went back to with the first i started a miller in august 1971, and i came home january the 16th, 72, when the hunter first stood down. I have a picture in there of a scabbard pad, the beetroot pad with all the revetment and the hangars. And theres not one not one helicopter inside it all been shipped out to other units or back to the states. And we were still there. Did you fly in support of lamson . No, i left in january of 72, and i didnt get there until august of 71, 72. So i think 719 was in spring of 71, then maybe 70. So it was in the spring of 72. I wasnt there for either one and im kind of glad i wasnt. It was it was really pretty rough time. I understand were supposed to be making a movie about my dad. Yeah, it was pretty mess. I know. When george mason died, what did. That was what day it was. Yeah. Yeah, it was mayhem. Fifth, 1970. Okay, so he was flying in support of ripcord and. Well, he literally shot down at oreilly. Now, oreilly was ervin bears just north of robert doar and they are Ready Reaction force was the second, the 17th. And then the 187 guys secured the site, the rock sons who were general westmoreland was with in japan and my brother bruce used to go watch 187 jump and thats what inspired him to jump out of good airplanes. With the 80 seconds. Oh. Wish did you like flying better than you. The cover of i really preferred the huey to the cobra and the apache. We had crew chief in go to the back door guns i an armor plated seat we had instead of two eyes that youd have in the cobra or the apache, you had four eyes. You had guys that could see people shooting at you. But the flesh and or hear them. And they were able to cover all the way back to the tail and i tell you, an apache, it was so well built. Two engines, two nose, gearbox is back there that sitting in the back there was still so much noise. It came into it that the only way out of known had a flown in combat, which i did, and the only way to know that you were being pilot was if you could feel it being hit. But i love the huey because it was like you know, instead of a brand new corvette, it was like driving your 55 chevy convertible. No computers. And it was just a joy. And we had crew and there was a lot of camaraderie there between the crews and the pilots. Everybody else else. How could you explain how you would get out of the helicopter . Because didnt your crew chief have to get out and slide something . But was the door for you to get out . Sure. How do we get of the helicopter in an emergency situation . We really practice this. We had armor plated seat and a door, but there was a armor plate that slid forward to about this size. And it was up to here and believe me, you just couldnt get small enough to hide behind the whole thing. But we practiced going out the middle. Okay. All our doors were always open. It was a matter of whoever was one flying to unstrap you out through the middle and go out the car door and the guy in that seat would go out the middle and go out the side door. Wed just about beat the crew chief and the gunner out. No. If you could if you could get out some guys like crumb, right. They he crashed up the they had a tail rotor strike going and then it pick up. So and they crashed a roller blade came through the cockpit and is my best friend joe glinski, whose children live in greenville. Joes been dead for a while. His classmate joe gillis sat there and held crum right as he blabber because it yeah for about 20 minutes and you know blade sometimes in the crash sequence blade comes through the cockpit and they they didnt get out because they had tail rotor strike and it rolled over immediately right. Thank you. I was asked before about how do i feel about surviving vietnam. Theres lot of guys that had survivors guilt and somebody that was killed, their friend was a better soldier or a better person. They were. And it should have been them and not not not not them, but me. And i dealt with that for a long time. And i was coming home from work one afternoon about 5 00 in the afternoon and the thought passes very quickly but it was basically it was like an epiphany. And im not a strongly religious person, but it came to me that i survived vietnam, two tours of vietnam, not because i thought i was the greatest pilot in the world and i was the luckiest. So i had the best crew, but i survived because it was gods will. It didnt matter what i did. If it was if it was goldsmiths time to go and he was called, he went. And what wouldnt have been anything i could have done if it was his time to go. And for some reason i survived god, had a plan for me. I dont know what it was. I met my beautiful wife, kate, 50 years ago and we had maybe it was our children we had, or maybe the grandchild but i still have something to do and maybe its to be here to share this with with you. But god controls, when he calls you and you dont have to be an old guy, you dont have to be in vietnam, you can go any time. So im glad to be here, jim. Like to appreciate your service, what you have done in your commitment to your fellow and crewmen. Thank you very much. Thank you, jim. Jim and i flew in the National Guard together for a while. Al japanese is here. We flew together. Liam grant is here. Charlie evans is here. And i appreciate not just him, but everybody else. Thats come out to see this and the i think South Carolina museum, confederate relic room. Im an old guy, but im not a relic yet for this opportunity today here. So thank you very much