[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]. So its a longterm effort here, but the body and in the commit end of the countries themselves while solving the problem is a virtue. Absolutely did the fighting against terrorism across africa is every bit as urgent and that is the middle east. He differences with allies putting soldiers into the fight. African soldiers are fighting and dying in nigeria, mali. We are providing funding. Unlike other places where significant numbers of allies who are sending their troops into the site in its native a real difference and we should be grateful. Im grateful for your service and the chance to ask questions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Very good at senator murphy. The mac thank you very much, mr. Chairman. I want to follow up from the question senator markey asked regarding interaction of Security Assistance and assistance provided by the state department. In 2014 was the first time dod funding for certain Security Systems in africa surpassed that provided by the state department it comes through a lot of different places. In particular, a rather opaque fun at the pentagon runs called opening partner capacity, which is about 10 billion globally. Its increasingly the source of dod fun to help promote Foreign Military sales and standup terry capacity. Ambassador thomas greenfield, i wanted to ask you about to what extent the state department and the Africa Bureau is ready in the decisions made at the department of defense to spend other partner capacity dollars. Theres a huge amount of the current 10 billion to the extent to which individual ambassadors have a say as to how that money is spent to make sure it isnt counteract in the work they are doing on the ground. You know, youre broader thoughts on this sort of longterm transition away from the majority of money in this country is being state department money to department of defense money. Thank you for their question. We work closely with afrikaans on any activities they are involved in africa. They have an annual strategy review meeting for tcms from across africa and usaid, Mission Directors are invited to come. Im fair. My colleague is there as well and we look across the board at what they planning to do and look what they are planning to do in the context of our Missions Program in terms of her strategy. So we do work closely with them. Our ambassadors have veto power on any actions they are taking, and the programs they are doing in general if theres any disagreement coverage wherever a precursor night for us out between ourselves. We are very much in sync with them. We wish we had that 10 billion to program on the continent of africa that do Different Things you have the money so we went out to channel that money to places where will make a difference on the continent as we work to fight security in terrorism together. 10 billion would be a huge contribution to democracy and governance. I described my government funding as scraping a mayonnaise jar to get just enough to do the job that we have to do. Tell me how much you have in democracy and governance . That make it back to you. Its a moving target. I would submit it is probably well left them but the spending. Its not broken down on a country by country basis. If members come on the nospace 10 billion spent at the department of defense. Im glad youre optimistic as to the degree of coordination. For members of the appropriations committee, it is probably a topic that should get more attention. Let me ask of my colleague will yield for one second. I give you some extra time. We have a couple members of our committee to serve on armed services. Its been a growing problem as they get to efforts made to be then expand dods role in traditional state department areas. Its a matter they are committing to look at on a broader scale. Theres obviously been a longterm shift of diplomacy from the state department and the defense department. Thats what happens when youre engaged in dangerous places. I guess im not as optimistic as to the ability to coordinate this work on a country by country basis. Its an effort. I actually have the figures here. We are looking at increasing the funding in the president s request, increasing support for programs in africa and f117. The request for that factor was 20 above what we did in 2015. Our figure was 286 million our figure for our request for 16 as 311 million. So its really a drop in the bucket. Within, its just another way by which we communicate our priorities to these countries. When we are looking at 300 million sunday could take and democracy assistance in having a potentially 10 times in an account that has very little oversight and this is whats most important. Numbers are skewed in favor of military and Security Assistance. I dont know who to put this question to comment but maybe siberell i will ask it to anothers. Can you talk about this mystery which is the attractiveness of a wahhabi oriented sunni ideology amidst areas that are often dominated by sufi muslims and the story has to be partially about schools that are on the ground funded by some of our allies in the middle east. Some of that has to do with the man who go to the middle east to get todd schools funded by allies in the middle east. What is the letter of seriousness about the countries on the ground in understanding and trying to tackle this problem of radicalization that have been in this wahhabi funded or so office Oriented School at either in theater are back in the middle east. I think its a real concern and we hear that. As you pointed out, theres a number of different through which these ideas that penetrates a society in Southeast Asia and other places hes historically ignorant and a missed approach that is tolerant of other traditions and ideas worn down by the ideology and not causes polarization, intolerance, sectarian conflict. It is a problem globally and relates to the spread of media. People that does for different parts of the world and there have been media funded from some regions that will have propagated or emphasized that particular view. Theres a number of different vehicles and its a major concern in these countries. I think when we talk about if you have to look at the particular circumstances, the community in the village level sometimes are what are those influences and thats at the difficult work will be identified through research and through data of understand the drivers at a local level. Its a very hard issue to address, especially amidst what is a global phenomenon that the infiltration of this particular religious view. I will just say back to nighttime. We will spend money chasing these dollars around the world. Its probably a better strategy moving in areas like africa out of the middle east, out of the pockets of our friends, probably better use of time and money. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you. I want to thank our panelists to maybe save us a lot of interest in mobile to talk about today. We will have questions after this and we could respond fairly quickly. Will take questions until the close of business on thursday. We thank you for your service to our country. We would like to shift out now to another panel. Thank you very much. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] our second panel will consist of two witnesses. The first is mr. Abdoulaye mar dieye. Any corrections needed there, sir . Assistant administrator in direct your other Development ProgramRegional Bureau for africa. Second witness will be mr. Christopher fomunyoh Tennessee Associated regional direct your first social and west Africa Institute kabul recognized mr. Dieye first of his opening comments in the two would follow, we thank you for sharing your expertise and knowledge with as good go ahead, sir. [inaudible] im very honored as to what her for the United NationsDevelopment Program to be invited finally before the u. S. Senate committee on foreign negotiations. I have a longer text, so i will try to limit remarks within five minutes. My purpose today will be twofold. First, i want to briefly update you on what we have learned about stability in africa. Second, i would share our view on the approach to mitigate the quest of what is often referred to as africas arc of instability. The lake, vision and the whole of africa. Let me try to put specific even though we discussed stability in africa. The continent is doing extremely great. For the last 15 years it has grown 5 per year since 2000. Violent extremism is amongst the most in africa. Chinese showed gdp growth has been cut from 3 to 1 . Gdp contracted 1 in 2015 from the growth of 5 in 2014. 5 following terrorist attacks. We estimate at least 33,000 people have died since 2011 as victims of violent extremism and 6 million are currently due to radicalization. Mr. Chairman, over the last two years, undp has held a number of consultations on commission or understand to search the show remake of findings. One, by the drivers of radicalization are multifaceted and if not, there may be the combination of poverty and Human Development and extensive economic and economic and political exclusion and marginalization and weak social contracts with highlevel societal divisions among ethnic minds. Two, their grounds for the radicalization of the border areas from which are in most of the country by week government and in terms of socioeconomic socioeconomic digital infrastructure. Three, while there are a number of common entities, there are also some important differences between for example, they tend to be the permanent drivers. Somalia and nigeria with political grievances are much more. It is with these in mind that undp seeks to address the multiple drivers and radicalization of violent extremism. We have met before your Regional Initiative on preventing and responding to extremism in africa which focuses on supporting government and atrisk individuaindividua ls to address the drivers and related type errors. We are working in at the center countries and avarice countries supporting integrated National Policies and strategies, the committee faithbased provisions prevent youth radicalization and local conflicts. We also promote social cohesion at the community level, working the local and National Governments to provide a sick social services with support to implement creation and not a government and the existential state authority. We have learned the comparative and integrated programs offered the best to combating violent extremism. Let me conclude my remarks by mentioning that africa advancing a responding to violent extremism is key. It will require a coordinated partnership. I thank you. Thank you very much. Mr. Fomunyoh. Is that connect pronounce that . It is correct, chairman. Mr. Chairman or Ranking Member cardin and members of the committee, on behalf of the National Democratic is due, i appreciate the opportunity to discuss the amount of instability and make the case for why democracy and Good Governance should be a central component in Subsaharan Africa. For more than 30 years ,com,com ma nba has worked to establish and strengthen political and civic organizations and promote citizen participation and accountability in government. The institute has conducted programs and work with participants from 50 of africas four countries and have been fortunate to be part of these countries r the past two decades. Terrorist act did in Subsaharan Africa threatens to destabilize the continent and roll back some of the gain and participation since the third wave of democratization in the 1980s. Groups such as bubble from and nigeria an islamic monograph in north mali and the fair and the horn of africa have cost tens of thousands of deaths and tremendous economic populations. Some of these organizations in africa how to establish alliances with violent extremist organizations in other parts of the world. Notably al qaeda and the Islamic State of iraq and syria isis. The International Community seeks to defeat the extremists groups military and must at the same time assist the affected countries to address the root causes and triggers of the rise in extremism and violence. The motivation of todays Subsaharan Africa is deeply rooted in religious belief. However, it is noteworthy that government failures that led to the impact of this phenomenon and traded an environment to which extremism tries. When the state collapses as was the case with somalia prior to alshabaab, all of those are huge swathes of them covered all spaces as of this case in northern mali, all to providing access to a meaningful life, liberty and property as nigeria, the social contract between the state and civilization is broken. The government viewed as illegitimate or ineffective as a further ground as does affect that individuals may easily embrace extremism, hoping to access political power in the research linked these attributes in transition environment. Moreover, oppressed citizens and access to basic public goods and services and opportunities are more vulnerable to extremist and indoctrination by nonstate actors. Therefore to counter violent extremism and tourism in Subsaharan Africa must therefore address governance as a part of the overall strategy. Based on institutional Lessons Learned and diaz work, my own experience and what i hear loud and clear from african democrat needed and activists across the continent and the recommendations. Anticounterterrorism strategy for africa should be grounded in democracy in government but the shortterm military victories can be sustained in the medium to long term. We cannot afford to defeat for extremists have now or five, 10 years down the road. The regime should not get it passed in the International Community solely because they are good partners in the fight against terrorism. Frankly an overt violations of Citizens Rights and freedoms undermining of constitutional rule and meaningful elections create this content and recruited and perpetrators of violence and extremism. Good partners in violent extremism can and should be a good performance and democratic governments. These principles are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they are mutually reinforce. Africans of this generation are jittery and extremely fearful of relieving the experience of the cold war era which negotiate a minute grave human rights abuses just because some leaders were allies of the west at the time. The fight against terrorism should not become a substitute for the cold war paradigm of Subsaharan Africa. Democratic governance is critical to every strategy before the citizens im not about to faster and great extremism, the alienation from the state to deprive extremists a possible recruitment ground and after there would have been gained military from the medium to long term. Excessive provision in economic terms they make jan to both visible to the recruitment incentives. To conclude, let me say that this enthusiasm a few years ago and found accomplishments in the last two decades, democracy and democratic governance in africa is under attack. On the one hand, it is challenged from extremist terrorist organizations and on the other hand some cases by an internal threat from autocratic regimes that fair to deliver public services, combat corruption and protect rights and freedom are the International Committee should do everything in its power of both existential threat. Friends of africa must make sure that they do not willingly or inadvertently allowed themselves to become a combo citizen to nine africans their basic rights and freedoms in a secure future. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And members of the committee for this opportunity. This is a brief summary of my statement and a longer statement will be submitted for the record. Without objection will be entered into the record. We thank you for her testimony. Senator cardin. I want to thank those of you for your oral presentations as well as tearful statement being made part of our record. Ive had a chance to look through it and it certainly reinforces the concerns that had. I want to get a little bit more granular here. Both of you mentioned the importance of the underlining causes of radicalization and although we have to deal with the immediate issues, if we dont deal with the underlining causes, it will be shortterm success. We have incredible tools. Undp is an incredibly important part of our International Effort to help develop prosperity in countries that we hope what provide the longterm stability necessary. Ndi has an Incredible Service and developing democratic opportunities around the globe. The United States and our Security Assistance are tools that can provide an Incredible Opportunity for stability globally. And yet, we point out that in sub Sahara Africa we have not been as successful as we need to be. So therefore, my question to both of you. What has worked that we should build on . I see your specific recommendations. Do with education, d. O. T. Underlining economic issues. But have you take the current programs available from the United Nations or through private organizations or through government, how do you take those programs and build the ones that are the most relevant to the stability of Subsaharan Africa and what programs need to be reconfigured because they are not providing to return to the investments being made. Can you be more specific here . Thank you, senator. Let me first say when i was listening to the previous panel, what you said is music to my ears. This is the fight that we are doing in africa and undp. And this controversy in the poor governance and ungoverned spaces has been the cause of not only to develop income of what we see in the continent. You are right, the issues we are seeing is most of these countries have very limited space and time to scale with the good factions we are doing. The solution is number one, not only limit ourselves to military solution, abandoned military and human rights development. But the good practices we are having the time to scale. As you saw, the National Committee has to understand the issue is the Global Public and is limited. In the spirit of partnership, we can scale up the good practices. Im just coming from kenya were assigned at the partnership between the two countries in the margrave region where they support the initiative. We have discussed a lot during the first panel. Its in the border. If we invest communities in the board areas, it could be great. With good funding, we can scale up. Senator, the National Democratic institute obviously doesnt have the luxury of the department of state or even a more National Organization such as undp. Put the resources weve received from agencies, we put a lot of emphasis on developing society. The studies done by organizations and in my recent statement. And so the demand for democracy continues to rise on the continent. Unfortunately, the supply is shrinking. Programs that can allow the expansion would bring most citizens into the process. They would have proper management of resources within this country. So i would allow more emphasis on Civil Society, strengthening citizenbased organization. Some of very active, especially including some of the areas. A number of groups that are engaging internally dispersed persons and dealing with trauma and some of the impact of boko haram and the organizations in helping build capacity. Its a good point and we need to concentrate the more complicated problems in the borders and therefore the country and is responsible in a sea of partnerships between the two countries make that difficult. I agree with you on Civil Society. Civil society is a critical factor in Good Governance and if you dont have this healthy Civil Society, it breeds the problems. Let me try to get to a third point for your view on that. And that is the reality of reception that you can get a free pass from the United Nations and the united date if you are working with the International Coalition to fight counterterrorism and what you do internal in your country will not really be of major importance in support. That to me whether its real or perceived could be a huge problem in dealing with Civil Society arent that government and a Democratic Institution development. Share with your concern as to whether the leaders of countries that are working with us have the view at the International Community will give them a free pass aside as they are part of our coalition against violent extremism. Thank you of the senator appeared us, human rights is at the center whatever we do and that is not negotiable. If you can get cooperation need for leaders. We support capacity building. Are you going to pull out of the country . He said its a bedrock. You have a corrupt regime in your doing some good work with at least part of that going to support a corrupt regime. When you pull out theres a cost to the community. So what we do is the secretarygeneral and the High Commission on human rights makes this strong stipulations. We could be better off with communities and with countries and human rights and this is a voice at his strongly. So its a country we have to ensure into society and government. It takes time. It may not happen overnight. Senator, if the perception is real and you hear as you travel across the continent. When you go through the list of countries, some were initially have been backsliding and there will be partners in the fight against terrorism in bed on the minds, all the declarations and although it has been done in the past. The example you raised early as obvious its been backsliding that democratic governance front, but its still viewed as a good ally. What it causes is the question of regime solely because of the cooperation on that front. Whereas they are mutually reinforcing and be a good performer on the front. Its not a choice of either or. Its got to be both. Youre not going to succeed with the type of stability that will provide not only an opportunity for citizens, but also eliminate the gap that is used for recruitment of extremists. Youve got to do both and im afraid that we have focused on the counterterrorism from a Military Point of view at times to the exclusion of dealing with the development of Good Governance in a country. If you think this year and has only put a spotlight on it. Hope we can figure out and just in response to the red youve got to be prepared to walk away if you dont have a partner with a fair opportunity to the people of that country. It is sometimes difficult and there needs to it that we have to deal with. If it not getting through you are supporting corruption, the better alternative is to look for another new opportunity rather than continuing the existing partnership. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you. But he just said is unlikely to recur, is it not . He wanted to answer that . I think you answered with the last that its not going to occur. Theres a way of doing that is not to walk away from a country, but go through the communities and invest in the communities. Rebuilding the social contracts for them also to fight for human rights. That is an investment worth doing. Just to underscore the point. We spoke for a way to deal with the human crisis that exists. But if the host country believes that there is always going to have a partner regardless of their own activities, users the ability to change the underlying problems within the country. We talked with the first panel here and weve done the same line of discussion. There is no question, is fair, that the fact citizens understand that we are going to hang because the terrorism issue is a cute, the other issues are longerterm and they will hang in there with them on the counterterrorism piece yet theres no question as they see enough to government and other issues that creates ill will towards the United States. Thats a question. Obviously, it creates a lot of doubts in the mind of the people and we are also dealing with this segment of the population that we are going to increase. We know that africa is a young continent. The book is in this category of people that are aspired to be governed differently in the love and respect the United States and put in the position of afghans when government that the antiterrorism legislation and sunglasses. So we end up not creating friends with this segment of the population that is the continent that the future. And that is first, by the way, a magnet for folks to be attracted more so to terrorism. So let me lets just step back. We all understand the president ial race underway and we understand, both of us here understand if we spend 1 of our u. S. Budget on foreign aid, 1 . Theres no question during the president ial race there will be discussions about foreign aid. I dont think its possible for that not to occur. The people listening to this testimony today, dealing with corrupt leaders, sending a money pit in many ways keep them in power can partner with us even more so. On the other hand, we have terrorism, one of our Committee Members is constantly focused on the issue. Stepping back. As we create our nations fiscal issues and interests, which i think maybe more so in this president ial year may be discussed in times than in the past. If he. If you would go through the advocate to me why you believe that our continued involvement in countries like the one we are discussing is an important thing for the United States to be doing. Mr. Chairman, although terrorism could be generated by progovernance in the country, it is a good of the global pass belonging to all the International Community. Which is why it behooves us where they are. We have to find a inside the root causes. It is a political importance at this time. Chairman, i agreed with what my company has just said. I would simply added many countries, american lives and american interests are also at stake. The initial bombings of embassies in tanzania desegregate american institutions and americans in the process. So threats to americans whether on the homeland are trained to operate overseas because the ultimate goal is probably a larger attack the villages get destroyed. I think it is important to send for a message that is all threatened by this phenomenon to respect the love where it finds itself at the present moment. I think that the challenge, you know, i think some of the debate around the middle east, i says isis and people ask if were going to be rid of it in the next year or two are missing the fact that the root causes by a mob, and longterm issue. The same is true in africa. The root causes air our longterm issue. As americans look at the resources enemies within our own country, sometimes the simple that we could deal with terrorism like that and maybe the lack of understanding that there are root causes in africa from within the middle east that mean if this is group is gone, another group is coming right behind it unless we deal with both sides of the equation. I think people in many cases this that point because of the dialogue taking place. Would you ill agree or disagree . Absolutely, mr. Chairman. To live with the root causes of terrorism, it has started years ago. It will take some more years to develop. As i said earlier, its the combination of progovernance, Human Development and weak social contract and this will take time to deal with. Its a longterm investment. Again, if we combine and scalable longterm investment and combine it with a security, i think we will win overtime. But it will take time. Its not a battle in my view. I do agree with you, mr. Chairman. The message can also be concrete at first you have to stop the bleeding and then you can use democracy and Good Governance to build a a lot of these countries. The example that ive used with regards to the sahara, for example is the difference that democracy and Good Governance made in a situation of two countries both bordering countries to that be a endless being poorly governed and was