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Cox supports cspan is a blic service along with these other Television Providers give you a frontrow seat to democracy. Former undersecretary of state for Global AffairsPaula Dobriansky discussed afghan womens rights at the Wilson Center and said afghan women suffered very draconian measures relating to education, civil liberties, healthcare and work since the taliban has taken over in august 2021. This is about an hour ten minutes. Good afternoon, everyone. I am Faria Nasruddin and associate for the middle east program here at the Wilson Center. I am pleased to welcome you todays fifth annual forum for discussion on womens rights in afghanistan. To introduce todays speaker i am pleased to welcome ambassador mark green, director, president and ceo of the Wilson Center. Great, faria. Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon and welcome to this marvelous forum. Im grateful that even though ii couldnt be at the center today, Technology Still makes it possible for me to join you. Not only is essman if you know she holds a very special place in the hearts of all of us you at the Wilson Center. She is a founding director of our middle east program and she led that team for many making through 2015. This series on her commitment to promoting womens empowerment and womens rights globally, but particularly in the inner region. Madeleine albright inaugurated the series in 2017. Since then its featured senator chris van hollen, undersecretary general an executive secretary ofec the u. N. And social commission for the western hemisphere, and ambassador for a come as a of the georgia Kennan Institute for women, peace and security writer in washington, d. C. The Wilson Center is unique institution in Foreign Policy. We are congressionally chartered, where scholarship trivet and were would fiery nonpartisan and independent. I always say that special status brings with it certain obligations. Do not duplicate what others are doing but instead to prioritize the most important issues and opportunities, and to try to do so in ways we can add value and make a difference. Issues topic, advocacy for afghan womens rights on the global stage, is critical to our work here in the center, and to the policy community at large, and is very much something that is among the most important priorities that we have. Women represent a powerful locus of change, whether at the helm in government, so society or the private sector, women play a Critical Role init preventing conflict, building peace and sustaining prosperity. The situation of gender discrimination in afghanistan is abysmal. And its worsening by the day. The taliban further restricts womens ability to work, travel, access basic healthcare services. Moreover, millions of afghans are facing food and water insecurity and the risk of disease. With womenen and girls bearing e brunt of these effects. What can be done to alleviate their plight . How can the International Community uphold womens rights . To discuss these questions and more im delighted to produce our speaker and a a longtime friend, ambassador Paula Dobriansky. She is currently a senior fellow at Harvard UniversityBelfer Center and, of course, formally under secretary of state for Global Affairs during the bush administration. She is the founding chair of the u. S. Afghan Womens Council, an organization aiming to reach out to afghan women and provide an opportunity for them to advance their priorities, including education, health, economic empowerment, and rule of law. During her time ago but she supported the creation of the American University of afghanistan which give countless girls and women the chance to receive an education at the high school and university level. Ambassador umansky helped usher in an increase in afghan Women Leaders in Civil Society, the public sector, and in business. In short, she helped to provide hope to afghan women. Thank you for youre leadershipn these critical efforts. It is great to see you even if its through through a w without further ado i turned the floor over to merissa khurma. Over to you. Thank you. Thank you, ambassador green. Thank you very much, ambassador green and, of course, thank you also for all the support that you link to the middle east program, take a middle eastern womens initiative. Ambassador we has o become welce which can and also like to welcome our online audience. And reminded before we kick off this conversation that youan alo emhave the opportunity to leave comments or questions that willl be collecting for the q and a session. So lets start our conversation as ambassador ambasss is a critical topic. Its no longer in headlines. Theres a lotot going on around the world, particularly in the middle east and north africa region. But we really wanted to shed light on whats happening in afghanistan. Because since the taliban takeover almost two and half years ago now, we have seen the rights of afghan girls and women regress. So many restrictions and a limitations on your movement and their presence in the public sphere. You have done so much work as ambassador mentioned to ensure that equal access to education. So where are we today . And how does this bode for the future of the country . Well first, merissa, if i may i do want to thank ambassador green, mark green, i do want to thank you and Wilson Center for inviting me. In fact, when i received their invitation and they said its the forum, i said when can i be signed up . So its a privilege and an honor to be part of this forum. And if i may pay tribute to you, paula, because youre someone who has stood so staunchly for the rights of all, but not only for the all, the women also in particular. Iranian women, afghan women, others whove been repressed across the globe, so may i take a moment . Of like a first applaud you. [applause] is. Just thank you because ambassador green mention in his words in his opening hope. And hope, those role models of paved the way and had courage in standing up to tyranny and repression, its so important and you certainly are one of those individuals. So thank you for all you have done. Merissa, to answer your question, tragically the situation is very bad. There have been very draconian measures, abusive measures taken against afghan women. And instead of witnessing any kind of improvement its the opposite. I mean to say a few words about whats going on and a few of the recent report also. In terms of education, think about where afghan women were before in terms of o the level f well beyond 13k and the high school and then university. Now girls only can attend school up to age 12. All are repressed andnd cannot. So education is severely cut and denied. I want to make a bet. Very significantly there been reports of arbitrary detention and our mess, and a lot of them are founded on the socalled that the job, whether its appropriate or its not appropriately on an individual i the job. Thats why use the word arbitrary, arrest and detention because there been many young women and even age 16 of them pulled aside and beaten and detained and threatened because of socalled there were not wearing their hijab properly. Thirdly, its very striking in terms of healthcare. If you are married and you have a male accompany you, you might very well make it to a healthcare facility. But on the other hand, if you are unmarried and there been a number of reports that are very much subjected to again arbitrary detention and great brutality, and you mayu never make it actually to a healthcare facility. So in that sector as well we had witnessed what is been cast as Mental Health issues. This brings up also about women, women in the workforce, because of those that have to really be confined at home and they cant get out into the outside at all. So the red been very substantial number of cases of Mental Health key issues because of being unfairly confined and not having any exposure really to the outside world and life. And in that sense thats a very, very serious and quite detrimental. And by the way, think about it. Its very detrimental to actually future of afghanistan because of our workforce you cant only have as we know men. In fact, there was i believe years ago and arab human error report that basically talked about the middle east and talked country that the private half of its citizenry from being integrated in the workforce would not survive. That there is economy would not be able to floors. And we witness the egregious impact here not only on women in afghanistan, also of the economy. It is gender apartheid, that it is been cast as. And let me just also in this regard mention issued a report come to talk about the unmarried women, they talked about the cases of Mental Health cases, and did talk about also the kind of draconian repressive measures that have been very widespread and really impacting any kind of substantial growth before in terms of educational and the educational ranks. So what does this for bode for the future of afghanistan . I would say even right now not very good in terms of the wellbeing of citizenss at larg, in terms of a desire to be part of an economy and by the way i should mention when they were reporting on are there y sectors where women surface . The one sector is a little bit in the economy that its that is qualified. Women can actually be engaged in ifen you will small this is from the homes in terms of embroidery, in terms of any kind of contribution that may be a small, if you will, cast it as self generated business, selling, embroidery, like that, and might be b contributing a bt to the economy. As far as ngo involvement, the record shows know, that theres repression and no, you cannot be engaged. In terms of some to military efforts, yes to some extent a little bit where women are also working in Healthcare Facilities but yet the irony that others cannot even make it to t Healthcare Facilities and that access. So what is it forbode to let me answer that question . As i said not, its not good, its that good for the of the facility again for the society. Type of Economic Growth and by the way, in terms of what the taliban itself said and professed at the very outset, it really flieses totally against some of the statements he made about trying to be more open, more intricate do. We havent witness that at all. Its been the opposite. Not a good. And as you also mention, this is been already defined as gender apartheid. One of our afghan photos actually wrote a a piece about that. I thinknk he is here with us today. But were talking more and more about who are at the helm of various levels of government and also with the use afghan Womens Council to ensure that women are not only protected u. S. Afghan but have equal access to education, the workforce. We see a lot of role models, a lot of them of course had to be evacuated. So there has been so much progress, right, before the withdrawal of u. S. Troops. So howun can the United States d other allies who invested so much in these efforts ensure that these programs continue with all these restrictions in place . This is an important question at a really relish youre asking me that question. You have to give me a moment, my answer would be a little bit longer on this one because i really want to give a a full d robust answer. It is a key one. First it would aboutu. Use afghn Womens Council. It was born at the outset, thinking about the seizure of mazaresharif and when the was an attempt to help afghanistan. And we all witnessed seeing deathly on tv women in burqas, what the record was doing the previous period of the taliban, and then if you will a liberation. And the opportunity for growth and afghanistan. From that standpoint the u. S. Afghan Womens Councilt ws born at that time, and to be you mentioned it but i but i o underscore it. Afghan women were very decisive. They for this council said we know what we want. We want education, number one is at issue. Work us on growing that access to education for young boys but especially for young girls, and at all levels, not just a younger level. Secondly, the issue of healthcare. The Maternal Mortality rate was so high, and hear the was tremendous progress in that area. Third was entrepreneurship. I remember my first visit to afghanistan and actually we only met a few women who actually were in mazaresharif. And actually were starting this micro lending. The second visit i made their we met with over 100 women at our embassy who came in. They had all kinds of businesses. It showed if given the opportunity, women will seize it and they willrt go forth, and ty did indeed actually. And then also the was the issue of im going to put it in its Civil Society but its governance, rule of law. I was shown a picture of women judges. There were many women who werey women judges before, and women wanted to be back into law. They wanted to be in the parliament. They wanted to have a stake in the future and decisionmaking of afghanistan. So that was the fourth. And then later also came work and collaboration on youth by the way as part of this. So the u. S. Afghan council was very focused on that. Its been very engaged. So one, i want to see why an organization like that matters. It matters because it brings together a lot of organizations both aboutut the united , abroad, and even some that are still working internally in afghanistan, as best as they can. Can. And in this sense i do want to recognize if youll just raise your hand. She is executive director u. S. Afghane Womens Council at Georgetown University. Our honorary chairs are former first ladies laura bush and hillary clinton. And then we have the president Georgetown University jack to joy. We also have phyllis magro who is a type of if you will arm to arm with jack to joya and also weth have in the state departmet which is important, the International Womens office, to make sure i got reda oh, by the way is also a cochair. All important and a reference that because that actually keeps the focus of programs, what are we doing going move things forward . Is not only at home but also abroad. Second, there are also some official positions that i think are absolutely key. What is in the state department in addition to the ambassador and head of the International Womens office, there is a special representative who is give you with afghanistan completely, completely. And this is rima. In many of you know her. She was in doha with us. Very important position. Shes not only working with afghans. S. Shes worked with americas cup working with others and shes also in the middle east, also pounding the pavement. She was there at the doha forum trying to bring this issue forward. I also want to recognize and mention the u. N. The u. N. Secretary general also pointed a woman who i knew years ago who was foreign minister of uzbekistan, rosa, was the representative and she, too, she just spoke in a very targeted way about the stigma and Mental Health at how we should be tackling it. What are these people important . Because they tried to do the best in keeping the issue in the spotlight. And as you pointed out its hard. But many, as for the extra time. I actually brought the list. You cant imagineu how many are still working in afghanistan. And i want to share this. I mention that our u. S. Afghan women councilil well, one woman runs a made by afghan women, very inspirational. Its hard but they work within the confines here. Conda harr also embroidery, doctor some of the many women know. She is a bear. She runss a hospital that by the way does have approval and it is run by women. Its very helpful. She has a find, Afghan Institute of learning. The foundation, enlighten the mine. All of these deal with education, health. The eagle online academy. I really wanted you all to do this because theres a lot of activity going on and it doesnt always get the credit it should end of which are up against great barriers. Uplift afghan fund, the foundation i know here in d. C. Many of us know it. They focus on youth in particular. The next generation, Turquoise Mountain has been in there. I had the privilege of going when he went to afghanistan years ago, watching the handicrafts, bringing back the beauty of afghan culture. It was amazing to us. Leslie schweizer who runs the friends of the American University afghanistan, and she poundsen the pavement and does o to afghanistan. Dealing with doha because a university had to transfer to doha qatar but she pounds the pavement, keeps it forward and in front, relief international. All of these are inside afghanistan. Three that i want to mention and i will stop, but the working in the u. S. I want to mention the bush center. George w. Bush and also mrs. Bush into the bush center in dallas, texas, have really focused very heavily on this issue. And paula, this is especially for you. You know what they have established . Established an afghan iranian coalition. They tryey to connect in country and out of country both why is it important . Because they feel that both movements should unite. The women, the diasporas in both cases and those inside should unite and be very strong in putting forward ideas, recommendations, and really getting notoriety for what theyre trying to achieve for women. They are going to be having a big launch here in washington in may on this issue, and a very excited about that initiative. I also might mention that the u. S. Afghan Womens Council also has almost a launch on these University Educational network of afghan women. The networks and online can be very, very helpful. Theres also of course the george Kent Institute for womens peace and security. They are doing phenomenal work and then the women for afghan, women, just, you know, im scratching the surface. Note if i even hit everyone but it did want to indicate theres a lot going on. So what needs to happen cut and your needs to continue to work in government, and i mentioned the interlocutors, out of government. And then thirdly, its absolutely essential especially to get the media. You know, because it is true, this has been on the back burner and it hasnt been front and center, and it deserves to be front and center. There are so many stories of courage. There are many stories about what, you know, by the way, individuals out in the United States with no connection whatsoever to afghanistan gain and got involved in forging businesses years ago and have stuck with it. Those are stories that in no people would be heartened by, and that gives hope. That gives incentive. That gives a kind of moderate of spirit that i think camaraderie will last and overtake the Current Crisis and tragedy that has befallen afghanistan. Thank you for shedding light on all of these efforts that are still ongoing. As you mentioned continuity and sustainability is key to that. Ihe know that the afghan girls d women are grateful for what the United States does andes a lot f these organizations do, of the countries in the west. But theres also muslim majority countries that should play an important role, countries like saudi arabia, qatar, United Arab Emirates and others have made significant progress in the own countries when it comes to not only education and Maternal Health but even the workforce in saudi arabia just in the last two years they managed to increase female Labor Participation over i think 30 , which is very impressive because its a very quick leap. So what role can these muslim majority countries play the basically influenced or dialogue with the taliban to ensure that women are not only protected by that access to equal rights as men . Great question. Before i answer it one more footnote on the issue about all of these groups. You know whats important here . I will say is that the women in afghanistan, those who are there, also feel inspired and motivated. The connectivity is absolutely essential, because they are inspired in the field we are not forgotten. Even withsm small projects, even with, whether its the embroidery, whether its with rugs, because there are women which theres still this Road Initiative started by ain member of u. S. Afghan Womens Council. Rug. I know if i. S can give one example, i worked a great deal when we hadad the soviet union t him never forget when Nathan Sharansky actually came to the United States during the reagan administration. And you know the first thing that he said to president reagan when he was released . He said yeah, i was in the good luck for so long, i got no information. I heard nothing. Within some times people would slip to me your speeches or you would Say Something about me and about our movement. That gave me the motivation that i must continue, i must overcome the current hardships and in that sense i know that afghan women are very strong, very resilient and i just want to say that all of them who are working with in afghanistan are outside, that lifeline is so key. Also the work that our governmental officials are doing, the ones i mentioned are important to middle east, very important question. The answer is an absolute resounding yes. Yes. They have a pivotal role. So let me start with this, and im going to underscore what you said and actually bring it back to holla if i may and you will see how. H we had at the state department during my time a meeting of actually women from the middle east andnd action a discussion d the majority there were muslim women. These were women. Some of them were representing representatives of the government. The discussion was on the issue about human rightssi worldwide. And you know what . There was an issue about arthur not projects that could be done that really have impact and that those in the middle east can really make a difference . So the Wilson Center was really ahead of the curve. She wrote a monograph on sharia law and had various chapters, who cowrote it, had various chapters looking at countries, not just in the middle east on isnt remarkable you can have sharia law and at the same time be a democracy . You dont have to be repressive and you dont have to suppress culture. I mean, all of that is just wrong, outright wrong. Ill never forget we had our u. S. Afghan Womens Council meeting. We felt at the time it was important to have two women. I was coaching and we had the head of the Womens Ministry at the time we also had a male. We had Abdulla Abdulla was the foreign minister. And true story. We were there at this meeting and when Abdulla Abdulla was asked the question, what other projects you think a report . He said this monograph. Why isnt it translated . We actually work to do that. So thats an example where countries on the outside who have such knowledge in particular, and its not where americans, and he think of you in the sense that you are american project that in second you have that connectivity, ad a monograph alsovi brought in authentic voices from the various muslim based countries. The answer is yes, it also officially yes, 100 . And then thirdly, i think like the friends of the American University of afghanistan. Qatar has brought in that university. We have the privilege together is going to meet within which is very heart rendering, and here not just only young women by young men who have professional aspirations and want to advance themselves. I think thats an up or step on the part of qatar and bring in these refugees, housing them, giving them that type of opportunity. I would like to t see the countries also do the same throughout the middle east. I would also welcome, like you said, those that cant in fact, also bring these issues to the forefront. And in this case i think a lot of the women who have made great strides, their connectivityy wih the women of afghanistan would absolutely be crucial. The state department has tried to hold some fora bring them together. I like the fact that the bush center they are bringing together afghan, iranian women in this case through the diaspora, and also for those r inside. So yes, yes, yes there are so many ways of doing it. And it want to commend you and the middle east program here. The fact that you are holding yesterday, the fact that this is also been a spotlight for you, its integrated into your work. I think youre also in your own context have pushed this agenda with middle eastern countries. Their voice can carry volumes and is really crucial at this particular time. Thank you for y that. Your mention of a new group joining afghan and iranian women, this reminds me of when the iranian protests were taking place after the death of i was amazed that even at a time and the taliban had basically started to increase their detentions and repressive measures, that University Women stood up and protested in support of their iranian colleagues and sisters and friends. That to me was absolutely fascinating to see, that they are still willing to risk everything knowing how high the stakes are. Another thing is, also discussions, official discussions. I think its also been veryso important, this issue has been integrated in terms of u. S. Official discussions, whether with our interlocutors throughout the middle east, whetherr with our reps and doess thinking about tom west and also is if he will quoteunquote outreach to taliban. And its always front and center. The tragedy there, the movement on that front, has only been so much, but the answer is should that be stopped . No. You have to be persistent. It has to be sustained. But its also these kinds of actions that matter and thats why i wanted to take a more of a moment and literally acknowledge. I mean, the scale and the scope of steel despite the repression im not saying theyre moving mountains but the fact that they are there trying to do the best, to have a presence, and to really to do what they can to still engage, and engage afghan women to try to push the dial forward. Its very important. Speaking of the taliban, there are of course various opinions on the international arena, whether the taliban should be reengaged for relations should be normalized. As a way to basically maybe talk to the more moderate factions or individuals, and influence by some of their policies, which so far have seemed to just targeted girls and women. Where do you stand on this . I mean i know where you stand on this the tell all of us where you stand on this, and why. I would be delighted. I stand very firmly against it. And i will tell you why i stand against it and then i want to say a few more details about it and the debate on both sides. The reason why i personally stand against it is because i dont generally believe that by actually normalization of the relationship that were going to get results. Already i know that u. S. Officials have workedd rather hard actually to engage to actually try to move and promote this along. There has been no traction. Thats number one. Rg secondly, there are those who give the argument if you do this then you give legitimization. Im not even, im going to say, fair enough. I think thats the point to be made. But to me what is more important is it actually think that there wouldib be some tangible concree actions. And it really dont seeee it. And i think that theyre been really some strong efforts of testing the waters, of trying to see it that could be pushed forward. So im not the kind especially when you diplomatically do this in subtle ways, and even in discussion, well hey, if we do this, what can we expect . Weve seen actually as i said based on, im thinking about the promises that were made by the taliban, and not only have they not been lived up to but its been the opposite, actual regression. I dont see that as of re the solution here, quite frankly. Let me give the other side. There have been those that if argued very forcefully for this. By the way, i mentioned rosa. I happen to notice that when she was asked this question, the u. N. Secretary generals representative, she said im not worried about legitimization. I think we should do this because i think that we should make it part of our discourse. It already isrt a part of the discourse, you know . It is. It definitely is. In every official quoteunquote official show to put it that way engagement. And not just with us, but this is multilaterally. In summary different arenas, if you will. I dont seeee that that is the solution. The solution is quite frankly for a change of there. Because weve seen then when there is a change, that what are unthe opportunities that can the fall . Let me give one last. Cima, the first minutes of womens affairs, and she also was for 17 years handling the human rights issueli for afghanistan looking at integrally and reporting on afghanistan human rights, during the 17 years of looking at from donny forward. Excuse me, karzai forward. So she actually wrote a book recently and its called outspoken. Shes been asked this question of my prick she didnt hesitate for one minute. And she said no, the answer is no. She said im very pragmatic. If i thought that we could actually do something here, of course i would look at any opportunityy anyway. The answer is no. Theres nothing that this come normalization is going to produce in terms of really a normalization of womens lives there. The government of qatar as beneficial as the u. S. Government of course the interlocutor and we seem also those efforts unfortunately have not gone anywhere because they ended up as you mentioned doing what they wanted to do. Seems that that is a memo issue on their agenda. Ambassador, you mentioned the American University of afghanistan. You were one of key individuals that also were there i think the opening, one of the daschle when the first stone was basically put there. As you mentioned we met both male and female students in doha. I mean, i was struck with how brave and hopeful they were. But what is the future of university . I meet with a number of students in doha, thanks to the government of qatar, very generous of them to do that but there are others that s are not able particularly women are not able to go. What is the future for this university, and how can we also help keep that hope is that a lot of these young afghans we met represented ally . First, one comment about the university itself and when it was friday in afghanistan. One statement that i will never forget and made by an afghan young lady, she was asked the question, why are you going to university of afghanistan, the American University of afghanistan, when you could go to the montross and down the street which is free . But the American University is not free. She said, theni fundamental fact is the other may be free but its not free in terms of what it teaches. In terms of what i want to do and in terms of my freedom of my own mind, my own thoughts, i want to go to the American University of afghanistan and da what i want to do. So any of them, they had to pay. I want to mention that because to remind oneself of that. So first, thanks go to qatar for the fact that it acted quickly in bringinggo the men. It is there. It is thriving there. So those that were able to get out there, i think that they have opportunities. Theres also whats known in qatar, in doha Education City with our number of universities. Georgetown has one, texas a m. I dont member all of them but they are like five or six, as is also provides opportunities for them to also matriculate into and connect with, but whats the future here . I will pick up not just only the American University of afghanistan in, but everything i said about this focus on education. The fact that education is a memo issue of the priority issue. It was always for afghan women, still is. In this case, like this University Educational network, the Online Network of that the u. S. , american, afghan Womens Council has set up. I think thats very key. And also by the way, its targeted but again it gives opportunities online. There are those that are also in the region, also left afghanistan are in india, some in pakistan, and there are some programs that also tried to continue that forward. Its hard but my answer to you is, as you can see, there are ways of still connecting and ensuring that education is front and center and that there are somean programmatic opportuniti. Is that ideal . No, not. And by the what is happened to the American University of afghanistan . Its occupied by the taliban. There are no courses there. Its not the vibrant university that it once was where you saw the young women, young men. I remember meeting the first, she ran for president , the first female president of the student body there. You dont have any of that. So you have to work of the ways of connecting in and giving them opportunities. On outside, on the inside, the American University is one means but not the only. If you remember in our meeting with the students back in december, one of the feeble student said she is taking her key learnings from some of the courses shes taking, and then she started her own whats up group. So shes transferring knowledge to others who did not have an opportunity to leave afghanistan. And so like you said these are very small efforts but they are bigger than what you look like because of the impact. But the multiplier fact you identified is also whats crucial here during this period, absolutely. Those students, its like the trainer of the train of the trainer, and have that impact. It so center, so crucial and thats why going back to the network being established i think is a key one as well in this because a network, women feel part of, integrated, and to others and then it grows and grows and grows. But this is a number one priority, 100 for afghan wom. Thank you, ambassador. So im going to switch gears a little bit from afghanistan, i think this iss a question that have to ask a map of all women in Foreign Policy and women in security. You are one of the most distinguished career women in this sector, and there are many other young women who are also aspire to be leadership positions in diplomacy, in Foreign Policy. What can you tell us about your journey . And what advice can you give to some of the younger women about of having Women Leaders, particularly and diplomacy . Thank you, thats a wonderful question. I would say that there were several principles at least that haveed guided me in terms of my own career. The first is, is involved in what you enjoy and youre passionate about. I actually did my undergraduate work at georgetown and actually initially wanted to bee in premed. My sister and my father, my father wasnt educated, my mother was an educator, and actually they said no, no, why dont you try the school of Foreign Service at georgetown . Si said i dont think so. They said you will not lose out on anything, go for it. I got into and he was my pasn and the realized i loved that. I just felt very drawn to that, having got connectivity with other societies, other cultur, and other histories. So i never looked back. Thats my first. My secondd is also dont be deterred by any barriers or obstacles. I think all of us whether male or female in our allies e up against barriers. In that sense i would say my own mother, diana, who i see over there, she got to know my mother, my mother was a very, she met my mother in her 90s my mother being in her 90s. She was very feisty and she had a rule of thumb, that was look, if something turned you down, think of another way and just plow forward. Sometimes that works, sometimes it didnt work but i like that inspiration, that dont just get knocked down and withdrawal, and be resilient. In that sense that was i think a rule me and really inspired me in my own career. When young women asked me the question, did you have certain cases where you felt discriminate against because you were an email . And the irony and the interesting thing, the answer is no to that. Actually a number of my mentors were males who actually moved me along in my career. You mention Madeleine Albright, also summoned also had an impact in different ways in my life and we had a common nettle of interest because imm am of ukrainian descent and she is of check background. But i will say this. You know what a barrier to me was age. I worked at the white house ssa Security Council i was put in there at age 24. Actually for young me many women i saw the full step actualization was a chimp trying to set no, i have this experience. No, i could bring this to the forefront. Iro was very lucky indeed. I was there during the reagan administration, and actually te advisors with ones who believed strongly that you cant just only have those who are well experienced but you would have new thinking, integrated in. I love that about them. All of the ones who were there during that period i was there for seven years, through six nasas great advisors. So all of them on glyphosate had the kind of rule of thumb. So i do say those are some of the factors. Be passionate. If youre passionate about what you do and enjoy it, thats going to further you. Dont be deterred by hard knocks. Maybe i should mention and dont feel discriminated or feel discriminated by age, but lastly, i would say its also important for you to know your brief. In that sense its not just, forgive me for dancing because maybe you are female, or really know your brief, really embrace it and show that you have it and that you know it. So those are some of the things that have really im going to saint moved me along. I mentioned may i mention and Madeleine Albright . I remember very often she would mention a very funny story because this is also advice to younger women pic she said you know what, sometimes really come a little down . I mean if your agency and beating and im there although and theres always been a meeting bee and maybe one other woman. She said you know what happens . I will get an idea and nobody says anything at the person of the guy, another official eddie saying the exact same thing i said. She said, boy, that bother me. And then the other guy goes on and he goes, yet, joe is exactly right, and it was like i never even said anything or said it. That she said that you know it saddened me . My female colleague didnt join in. She said, on, women. Youve got to support one another. That something you should really do. It was interesting that she said that and really stand up, whatever setting it is, academia, think tank i or government. Its important to actually speak up, and also hope that there is this kind of network in camaraderie were women are really fending for themselves and advancing the careers of one another. Thank you for that very important advice. Thank you. So its time to turn to questions from our audience. If you do have a question, please raise your hand and identify yourself and then also be taking some questions from our online audience. I have a few. Yes, please, diana. Either way, if she doesnt identify or yourself i do not appear i already mentioned, Diana Negroponte who is really quite a force on behalf of women. Women. We had the privilege of serving together on the Freedom House toward, and diana is, youve done so much for human rights worldwide. Ambassador dobriansky, thank you for introducing me. [laughing] afghanistan has an area of leverage for women, and that is foreign investment. Where is the maryborough of the automobile, the truck, the industries which afghanistan needs . And weve shown can be led by women. You focus on the grassroots admirable, and will keep at it. But lets look for Business Leaders who, through their industries, can enter into afghanistan. Well, you are 100 as usual, diane is 100 correct in what she is saying. She is absolutely correct. I will say though theres a a challenge, okay, inside afghanistan clearly now that there isnt that kind of opportunity. But thatni doesnt mean there ae not Women Entrepreneurial leaders. You did hear me also mention how my first visit we only met with a few microlenders, but then when i came back over 100 women and they owned a lumber business, another one with a concrete factory, a kite store. And it went on. There with these proud women owners, and yes, they could have the their opportunity to grow their business. Tragically, theres a a halt o all of that, quite frankly, aa mention by all accounts of the u. N. Agencies going in and report on whats going on. The only Women Entrepreneurs and where you have a fraction of movement they are doingn it frm their homes if they are not doing on the outside. In fact, women have been pulled out of being in the work environment. So yes, you are correct. I think there was going to be that movement forward. In fact, there m was a womens federation, excuse me, i federation of Women Business owners that actually did get quite a bit of not only public funding but private funding. I i believe that is the wave of the future inside. Outside, by the way that many accomplished as danny women. I a number of organizations, in terms of miriam biot here i in imagine others. I mentioned also minutia for week if i pronounce it correctly, a a councilmember. These are women, afghan women who really are making a difference if given that chance and opportunity even on outside more so. Impact. L have an h so youre correct to bring them in to the mix. Entrepreneurship and economic progress certainly breeds of leverage, without a doubt, because you even see thats the one little space where theres some give for afghan women but albeit in a very confined way. Thank you. Thank you. Rob . Senior Vice President at the Wilson Center. Very well known here and also georgetown. Thank you very much for being here today and merissa for organizing this to under wonderful colleague. Paula, it was an amazing tour of the situation. I was curious, can you discuss the role of the Diaspora Community . I remember in the visit to doha i met the afghan female Robotics Team and a wonder what happens to these individuals people, site, train, to see themselves going back to the country or u looking to stay in their host countries with your currently residing . Thank you for raising that come asking that question. 100 crucial, critical. And all we are already playing a key role. Youre quite rightwe to point ot there are those who do not want to stay here. They want to go back. They care about the country. They want it to grow. Ive met many women educators. Ive met women who are in business who want to go back and want to continue the work that they were doing. I could go on with the list in this regard. So, yes, i would say theres a fervent, a passionate taking, applying the knowledge of weight which are able to grow it now and make great use of it now, whether theyre in the United States, whether theyre in europe or africa, whatever they may be. Because afghan women landed an afghan men landed in different locations across the globe. But i know the ones that ive met, i have met one that hasnt expressed a desire m to go back and to really make a difference, and theres that commitment. So youre right aboutan the robotics. There are women athletes who by the way women who were in the police force, by the way also. Women who were in the military, by the way. I mean im mentioning all these different sectors who ive met anybody had great pride, and no less women in government. And women ambassadors, women who in Foreign Policy. So yes, yes, yes. Let me connect a few dots here. I also previewed for the bush center the coalition of afghan and iran women. It actually emphasizes that diaspora because its aer very sizable iranian and afghan diaspora. Bringing them together because it dont normally or necessarily have come together, so theyre actually organizing. Great in that sense and bring them together. And also with women were in iran and in afghanistan. Soso absolutely key in this, thk you for highlighting that. Weve had to make questions that really spotlight of areas that are crucial for growing at this time. And lucky, some of the programs that are trying to really ensure that we get a Multiplier Effect and get new ideas actually build upon, whether its Women Entrepreneurs, for that matter the diaspora which is crucial. 100 . Thank you. One more question. Did you want to ask the question . She can ask the question. Im glad today, i see if you want to take the two and thank you very much, paula. I was amazed that you remembered that publication. It was called best practices. May i i just say this . I apologize for interrupting. You had to be there because all of us were listening to Abdulla Abdulla, the foreign minister and then he said, the best thing that we must do is of this and were all like this. So, yes, i remember that. Very significant and attribute to you. It was done at the Wilson Center. Exactly. And shared bernard contributed as the coach or. The coauthor with you. Exactly. Some wanted to give the credit. Years. But before that, during that short period, there were a lot of refugees in iran. You would see women at theuniversities , afghani women studying at iranian universities. We would ask them, why . What are you doing here. They would go, as soon as they go back and we have protection. My question to you is that seriously do you have not a wish, but a hope that this will change again and what will it take to bring back again what we had after the rein of the taliban . Thats number one. And number two, i also wanted to mention that we hosted at the Wilson Center twice the team that mrs. Bush brought to the bush center on her visit to washington, she came to the Wilson Center. Both times i think they would ask only women and egyptian women, if im not mistaken here. This is a good place to have them back again. May i say that . And finally, you mentioned madeline albright. She always used to say theres a special place in hell for women who dont support her women. And i want to thank who started the forum and invited secretary albright to be here and i recall she mentioned. Thanks again for tonight, it was wonderful of you to come and it gives us a lot of courage to work, more or afghani women. As i said truthfully i was very inspired when i knew this was the forum. I responded immediately, i said yes, sign me up. Two fast comments, i did not hear that statement from Madeleine Albright. I heard the first, but i have to remember that one and henry, forgive me, i did not recognize you because you usually keep your glasses down. So, so very lovely to see you, but my answer to your first question, i really want to say that, yes, im positive it will happen, 100 . 100 . And by the way, not just only for afghanistan, but for iran. I believe firmly in the free spirit of the well, the spirit of excuse me, let me put it this i believe in the human spirit that it will never be repressed. That that is something thats common across the globe no matter what country, what culture youre in, people want to live their lives and not be repressed in the way in which they live. In that sense, im confident that well see a change in both places and in that sense, human rights of women, men, children, will indeed prevail, 100 and i will convey your message to the bush center. I will be glad its up to you if you want to give quick answers. We have two questions so lets hear both of your questions and then well give you an opportunity, ambassador, to respond. Please go ahead. Thank you. Hi, im mia, research for Common Ground in d. C. , and we do a lot of work for women and youthled Civil Society and peace building organizations in afghanistan and elsewhere around the world where we work. So, what is your outlook on the state of womenled Societal Development and peacekeeping in particular . Or peace building, not peacekeeping. Thats different. Thank you. And also, i feel badly, theres a young man here, he had his where . Yes, yes, he also do you want to take the mic . I hope you dont mind my no, no, please go ahead and well go. Thank you, ambassador for being here and your remarks, im stacy from the national Civil Society action network, we can. And we spearheaded womenled organizations and including 10 afghanled organizations. As you know, afghan women are extremely capable, wellmobilized and persistent in their advocacy in negotiations, political processes in their country and now to try to respond to prevent the violence thats happening, in response to the dire humanitarian situation. My question is, given the continued road blocks that many of them are facing globally, what do you see from your experience as the most strategic entry point for the Political Engagement and leverage right now to be able to improve and change the situation and given the u. S. And our history, what can we do now at this point in time to best support them . Thank you. Thank you, and well take the last question from you, please. Thank you. Im from Afghanistan International news outlet. I have a question. You mentioned that engagement with the taliban regime might not work so i was wondering, which kind of solution you are thinking of . What should be done if engagement with the taliban doesnt work . So, thats my question. And if you have time, you mentioned that it is what the taliban are doing with afghan women now is gender and studies, what kind of responsibilities the International Communities and the states, including the United States government have to take an action. Thank you. Thank you, okay, so let me try to go through these and forgive me, im trying to do peacekeeping and 100 thats a key issue and looking at global peacekeeping, i can interpret your question a number of ways, when i worked at the state department. I had refugees and a High Percentage of women as part of, if you will, peacekeeping because they were removed from society, you know, were ended up in refugee camps. Was it ideal . Absolutely not. You had women who were brutalized, women who were trafficked and im just scratching the surface in anticipating your question, but basically, its an area thats absolutely crucial, its key, its one in which also there have been real challenges for women and ive only given you two examples, i mean, in terms of particularly trafficked women and when it correlates with refugee camps and the kind of, also arbitrary arrest detention that takes place. In terms of whats the best entry point, im going to take your question that way. First, there is no silver bullet. I think my answers to marisa have indicated that and i mean this, my answer to you is all of the above. Seriously. All of the above. I think are key entry points here because its at this time its tragic whats going on. I think that every step counts. So, no, there is no one single step thats going to bring about change. And tore give me, im answering the first one because i heard the first one, i cant quite catch your second one, im sorry, but let me give you the answer to the first one, to clarify, the question was about normalization. By the way, there is or engagement that takes place and my comment was not about, you know, should we do engagement or not. We are. The state department through tom west, he, as you mentioned, through cost engage in discussion with the taliban, but theres been no traction, traction thats demonstrated any kind of positive, concrete results to the benefit of not just only afghan women, but Afghan Society at large. So my comment was, i do not support normalization because one has seen through this engagement that has happened with the qataris there has been no concrete results. Thank you very much. We ran out of time. This was a very engaging discussion. Thank you so much for highlighting all the important work that is being done and shedding light on the hope for the future. Its very important for us to keep the conversation going to make sure that that hope is alive, and thank you to holly for also passing on the torch and to all of us to continue this work here at the Wilson Center, not only through the middle east program, but, you know, other programs as well including the Maternal Health initiative that does splendid work on girls and women and my other colleagues as well. Thank you and we hope to see you in the future. And thank you again. [applause]. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] coming up, a conversation on deterring chinas growing economic and military power with oklahoma congressn frank lucas. Watch liv today at 10 a. M. On cspan2, the mobile video app or cspan online. Org. In the weeks that lie ahead as freedmans first Television Series unfolds, the famous influential men and women who occupy those states will have a lot to say about friedmans Society Today and his solutions for the ills of our time. Saturday 7 p. M. Eastern American History tv will air the 10part series free to choose, starring mr. Milton friedman, he produced it with his wife Rose Friedman in 1980 and wrote a best selling book of the same name taking us to the u. S. And world economy. Friedmans advocate free market principles and limited government in the economy, with social welfare, inflation. Watch saturdays at 7 p. M. Eastern on American History tv on cspan2. 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