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A little too much looking down and i think it was a little too fast. You were dropping her voice at the end of the sentences. There was a considerable pickup in drama and interest when the questioning began. Your voice would build up and her facial expressions i thought your answer on vietnam was good. I really didnt like the answer on jobs. [inaudible] and therein lies the reason why we should talk about first ladies. Because what other advisor could be that candid to a president . Stu spencer maybe. Wasnt there a family they owned television stations or something so she of the background and so as an advisor because first ladies in some ways are to their husbands whether its in their official capacity or not. They bring that because she wants him to be as successful as he does. I think that clip show shoot, we talk about this rule of first ladies, the various attributes that as simply as human beings that they bring to the table. Mrs. Johnson, i think like mrs. Obama, things in a very organized way. They are very well structured in their mind. Jackie kennedy was famous for i dont have a schedule i like to do things spontaneously. And different ones bring different things. I think mrs. Johnson with her love of words, she had a degree in journalism her love of writing, her love of cadence, her love of wisdom but also like you said the media experience brought that, you know and thats not necessary political. Its a policy budget but it ends up having a political result. Edna medford, this is not a new phenomenon. We have an image from the polk administration. We will go back in time and escrow anthony said this was a time when women were supposed to stay in their sphere. But mrs. Pope didnt stay in her spare so well. Could you tell us about it . No, she did not. This was when women were really appendages to their husbands. They were not supposed to have political ideas of their own. They certainly were not supposed to voice those ideas if they did have them. Mrs. Polk had those ideas into force them at least to her husband. And she reviewed his speeches. She actually tried to influence people to do things his way. You try to influence them as well, and she did influence him as far as we know. So shes definitely stepping outside of that role of the average or typical woman during that period, or what was expected of the woman during that period. She and other first ladies of that era did not always follow that pattern of you are to be you would to be the hostess at a party, and its okay to give these parties because they are political. They are not just entertainment. Its not just the emptiness. Theres a reason why they are doing this, but she goes much further than that. Shes not here interested in the parties but she is interested in the politics and she does help her husband to get where he wants to be. So she is supporting the whole idea of manifest destiny. In terms of support for him at home but also beyond that. We have one quote i remember in the book of members of congress at the time same to the president , i would rather talk politics with your white van with you. She was pretty good at what she did. I have another image in the mentioned mary lincoln. You were taught but how you are still discussing the mental capacity but we have her as a political partner because she was indeed a political partner to abraham lincoln. Karl, lets start with you. I suspect if we had tape recorders back then you would have heard at least midnight can century president s a lot of conversations like that. When lincoln finds out he is one of the presidency and deterrence jordan says mary, mary, we won. Week, he said. When grant is an odd committed patrons to julia grant and says well, my dear, i hope you are satisfied. [laughter] we think maybe she pushed him a little bit to run, be involved in politics. I think those conversations look, you dont take your spouse without telling them tape your spouse without telling them. True. I bet if you had a tape recorder you hear all kinds of conversations like that. In campaigns and these people to run. Once they got to the white house, she was shut out. She was totally shut out. First of all she was a southerner. The union states were still there, slaveholding union states, the border states. But she had relatives who are fighting on the side of the confederacy so she could never be trusted. It was alleged that she was a spy. She spent too much money. She acted less than sane sometimes, and she embarrassed her husband in public which is something first ladies were not supposed to do. But you have to sort of understand whats going on with mary lincoln. This is a woman who had lost a son before she got to the white house, lost another son while in the white house had a husband who was not always easy to get along with. I think we sometimes forget that lincoln had his problems as well. This is a woman whos very bright, who understands politics, and loves politics, but she was born a woman. And so she does not have the ability to do what her husband can do by virtue of the fact that she was born the wrong gender, and so she is living vicariously through him i think. She wants him to be president but she certainly did not anticipate i think the kind of vilification she would get once you got to the white house. We will have to fastforward through a lots of history. Governor roosevelt ends up in a lot of these categories tonight. How would you assess her carl anthony, in terms of her partnership with fdr . They were driven by the same principle, that people get so patty in looking at the, theyve been married for so many years. And yes, he had a physical and an emotional relationship with somebody whos very close to her, her personal secretary to were one and she offered him a divorce and it was dramatic, no question. But when she sort of pulled away and looked at it she realized theres nobody else i share values with like i do with him. That they believed they were both progressives even though they were democrats, very much like the roosevelt. Thats what led them to Work Together and gives also love because of his physical disability. She did not, she believed he was talented, and she believed more in his talents than her own at first and she really thought you cannot lay fallow. You must lead. And is the first as governor of new york and thats really a tryout in essence for her role as first lady, and then with the depression hitting and everything almost smashed as far as what we know in terms of american life. She takes advantage of that vacuum where everything is up in the air and thats where she starts saying, this is what im going to do. Its always under the guise, but im simply a devoted wife helping my husband. But she didnt really start developing her own agenda into the second and a third term particularly on civil rights. When he was always more lyrical incenting this is what we can do what we cant do she always brought him back to principle. So while they continued as Political Partners to share the same values, he often abandoned them for the practicality, and she always was sort of sticking with him anymore sort of lofty way. Let me move on. I do have one more clip. Im going to ask you, krista thompson, to watch list even though you didnt recognize these first ladies. Both full Political Partners but the approach it differently in the way they describe it. These are from cspan interviews interviews. First is nancy reagan and the second Hillary Clinton. Lets watch. [inaudible] the little antennae went up when someone had their own agenda and not ronnies. He would always agree with me but i would tell him. [inaudible] when i worked on health care a lot of people thought i should be they give recommendations about legislation or shouldnt be involved in working on behalf of my husband, asking not to work on it. Because they thought that was somehow inappropriate, that if you exercise influence, do it behind the scenes where no one can see. I find that curious. To me, id like to know what goes on in front of the scenes because im very much the kind of person who believes that you should say what you mean and mean what you say and face the consequences, like anybody else who was involved in public life. Its faster to because there are so many ways to be political, right . And especially for a spouse to be political. We know that Hillary Clinton as first lady set up an office in the west wing which was like oh my goodness, you know clear indication that she wanted to be political not behind the scenes but in public. When she was working on health care she spoke to the business roundtable, and she was a public figure in pushing this policy and sought to engage people and work on it in front of the scenes. You know, nancy reagan, we can imagine, she was very frank about the wishes political behind the scenes but we can imagine the way that every first lady over dinner conversation or if you want to call it the the old dock or without is is able to express those views. Michelle obama has talked about what husband has talked about the ways in which shes influenced him a special on issues like samesex marriage and immigration, social policy, and they kind of the described her in some ways pricking his conscience on those things. You have to see first ladies as political figures in that way no matter if they choose to operate in the way that nancy reagan did or in the way that Hillary Clinton has. Nancy is kind of modest. She says i know when people have their own agenda. It usually works out. Yeah, donald regan got fired. So worked out not always for them. Shes kind of understating there. She was a very powerful force in this town. Ive never asked a president about it. Ive always meant to but the first lady is one of the few people in the world who calls that person by his given name. That has a power that maybe his brothers parents his Commanding Officer if he is in war but there are five or six people in the world who to call him mr. President , who call him by his name. The first leg always calls him by their name. It conveys the kind of intimacy there. This is a person as nancy said emphasis drove Hillary Clinton that person the president knows the first lady has their best interest. He has confidence their heart is in the right place. Thats their power. Were going to look at some first ladies other than bess truman who found themselves in the job either by marrying someone whose aspirations they were not quite sure of when they get married, or knew it but really never loved politics all that much. Then theres another kind of reluctant first lady those who got there and were shut out by the staff around them. We will start with one woman, pat nixon who had an interesting relationship with the presidency and her husbands quest for the presidency. This was her very my speaking engagement at the republican convention. Lets watch. This is the most wonderful welcome i have ever had. [cheers and applause] i listened to Jimmy Stewart introduction and i was so appreciative grateful. He certainly is right. Soundsummit [inaudible] i will remember it always. And thanks to the young people for this great welcome. [cheers and applause] so Patricia Nixon why did she end up in our reluctant or unhappy role . I think the reality of what was becoming modern politics, the media the money, the partisanship come the attacks, the questions of ballots you know stealing votes, everything she got disgusted with it. And i think she always felt she had been actually active and interested in politics before she married a nixon. She was a supporter of al smith who was a democrat, as a young woman. She met the roosevelts. And they did the first Congressional Campaign together. And her inheritance. And there was a breakin by the way in their headquarters where all the literature was taken. But i think over time she just really got disgusted with the way things were and this 1960 election really broker. They came so close and then he had, she said dont run, dont run, run. He asked her permission in 1962 to run for governor and she said yes. A loss that ended the famous story where she made them write down, she put in her wallet, a promise i will not run for politics again. And, of course, he broke it. That ambition with all of these men, we were talking about theres a certain insanity to wanting to be president. [laughter] so she wasnt there and she saw she knew the opportunity for eight years as a president s wife the opportunity she had come but when she did make recommendations like a very important one, while those tapes, like mrs. Johnson shes record on a lot of the tapes with nixon, was to equity held by him as private property. Legally they should be destroyed. And, of course, he didnt listen. Carl cannon then nixons staff shut her out as well, didnt they speak with yes. But she didnt mind. She was tired of politics before the white house even before she came to the white house. She had been a Vice President why. She thought they were done with it. Theres all kinds of personal reasons some women dont want this role. Bess truman, we showed that the letters clip of her breaking that bottle. That mustve been a hard bottle to break because she was a better athlete than harry truman was. When she was in grade school she was a very good third baseman she used to tell people. She could swing a bat but she had a secret she was keeping. Her father had committed suicide at a time when it was a statement. She took apart. Her mother, her mothers Mental Health never really recovered from that. She didnt even want to be when harry truman was president. She would bring her mother to the white house and to go back to independence, and she decided she had a more Important Role in life than being with the president , which is keeping her family together. I think we forget sometimes these are people and they have these burdens on them. And yet a very, very important after truman dropped the bomb, the first atomic bomb she came back from missouri. She advised him the night before he dropped the second on nagasaki, according to the memoirs to alonso field, with the white house, i mean, she was in on the big decision. Edna medford, id like you to ask you to look back in your period of history and would be the women that were in this unhappy or reluctant class that folks should know about . I think foremost would be jane pierce. She didnt want to be watcher has been involved in politics. She certainly didnt want to the role of first lady. She even its not even about being in the white house. She didnt want to be in politics at all. Her husband had promised her that he would get out of politics, and for a time there he had. She fainted when she learned that he had won his private partys nomination for the presidency. And shes coming to the white house with loss of a child again. So theres this woman in the white house who is suffering from depression because shes mourning the loss of a child. Shes having to deal with all of the duties of being a political wife, of being the first lady. And a husband who doesnt quite understand why she is so reluctant. She was a very unhappy first lady. I think more than any of the others she certainly we showed her the picture because this was the son she lost. They had lost their other two sons. This is the third. Just before they came to washington for the inauguration and he died in front of their eyes in a train accident. The president actually, the child was ejected from the train and the president would down and carried the child backing. Such a tragic story. How does a. Recover from that . And being in a place where she didnt want to be. You can fully sympathize with the situation. And being first lady to a president who is the country is in turmoil at this time. This is the crucial decade, and so her husband is experiencing all of these tensions between the north and south and she as a part of that. She is a witness to that and she doesnt want to be but she has no choice. We have many other first ladies come interesting first ladies in this category including Louisa Catherine adams, elizabeth monroe, ida mckinley, and others but to ask you you have to get the book because we are running out of time. Im going to move on. First ladies have taken advantage of their position. This fabulous opportunity they have to make change by adopting causes. How recent a phenomenon is that where winners in the white house, what is the cost going to be the first lady will adopt . It is expected they will announce and how much politics, or Political Considerations goes into that decision in this modernday . Quite a bit. As the president is going from a candidate to president and has a Transition Team and is building it, first ladies are also doing that. Michelle obama has talked about being back in the kitchen in chicago and thinking about planting a garden at the white house in developing this idea for how she would approach this topic of Healthy Eating and really, you know pushing back against childhood obesity, taking this on as a cause. I think its a cause she has really come to embody and personify. We know she is in d. C. Working out and taking cycling classes and she is with the children eating carrots and pulling up of vegetables. And also lets move which is what her campaign is called. Is a nonprofit attached to it. Lets move has brokered deals with walmart coming get healthier food in stores and with disney to pull some of the junk food ads off of childrens television. These are not inconsequential things. Because shes first lady at this is the role, it is wrapped up in also are doing pushups with Ellen Degeneres on daytime television and dancing at the easter egg roll. So you can really see the ways in which first ladys take on these issues. And for a first lady like Michelle Obama really wants to push the issue in a way that is sustained and that makes real difference, but that doesnt feel like the arches riding the law or it is just hard policy. She did also pass the change you know push the changes to School Lunches and that did go through Congress Early on. On. I want to show another piece of video and this demonstrates that this formal adoption of the cost is relatively recent phenomena. Sometimes it was thrust upon them by life circumstances. This is betty ford and shes talking about her breast cancer. Lets watch. In a few weeks i will complete my chemotherapy treatment, and that would be another milestone for me. Since that first year i have not talked much about the difference of my experience with cancer but at that time my mastectomy and a discussion about it i was really pleased to see it. A large number of women to go and get checkups in the local communities. She changed the conversation in this country about cancer. Carl anthony. Absolute she did and it wasnt personal. I think Michelle Obamas star is personal and Jackie Kennedys story is personal and Lady Bird Johnson story is personal and i think thats where the commitment of sorts. Because of course we only see the happy side of it. Theres a lot of obstacles along the way. Let me add one quick little asterisk. Florence harding, way back. You do find that some of these women feel very passionately about issues and she was an Animal Rights advocate. She was against in 1921. So she started for the brief time she was there to really bring that issue, animal cruelty. And even proposed that Public Schools adopt Homeless Animals in that its a way of teaching little adults, cubans, little children about, through animals, treating other people with kindness. Karl, was it really nancy reagan and the just say no campaign that formalizes this need to have Nancy Reagans just say no it was ridiculed by the elites. The kids listen because drug use in high school went down after this thing was launched. I think we formalize it but i think this thing goes way back. Michelle obamas father, Michelle Obamas other issue is getting the troops giving employment for the troops. Who did that . Martha washington did. She did before she was first lady. She was called lady washington by the troops out of respect. Before lady bird there was alan wilsons bill. It was an urban renewal bill, a bill in congress. I think its always been there. First ladies have an interest and people care and whether they are interested in. What are some of the early examples . They may not always be fullblown causes but there was interest in Martha Washington even after she becomes first lady has receptions for veterans and soldiers shes so concerned about them. You have mrs. Fillmore who was responsible for developing the white house library. I think Dolley Madison is involved in working with orphans and getting her friends involved in louisa adams is talking about womens rights in the early 1800s. Her husband, he was sort of the jimmy carter of the century, not a great president , pretty good expresident , hes leading the argument against slavery and his wife is leaving the arguments of suffrage in the 1830s. And it was reported in the press and one of the earliest recognitions by the white house was behind the first health and safety regulation standards in the federal workplace. And one would think about the lets move weve been sort of we dont mean to criticize, we are not arguing with your premise, susan, its more formal than it used to be an example is Michelle Obamas initiative. This was an initiative that was a president ial initiative and the Eisenhower Administration and jack kennedy. Now you are first lady do what president s did before and thats true. It has become much more formal. Im going to go over just a little bit and really just jump to one last question before we go to the questions from the audience, and as first lady indie media which is also been able from the very earliest days to come going to start with the modern one and that is answer the question of how nancy reagan managed to turn around that negative image. I dont know how many of you were around when the reagans first came but they are very unhappy reception from the press corps. So what she did was go to the press corps and despondent. Diverted the gridiron dinner in washington, d. C. What did she just because she was known as, she bought these designer dresses, so shes queen nancy, Marie Antoinette they are comparing her to. Some of it is funny but some of it is true. She goes to the gridiron to have a clip . She goes to the gridiron and people than i remember nancy herself is a former thespian, not just her husband and she stole the room. Here is a clip from the reagan president ial library. She is being interviewed by a wellknown political reporter, telling the story of how she slumped the press corps at the gridiron press club. Lets listen in. [inaudible] [inaudible] [laughter] you guys are pretty easy. She got us. We were eating out of her hands. So back in history come, just two quick images i want to show because first ladies learned pretty easy on how to harness the news media, to control images. This is mrs. Hoover. Wait, first ive got Caroline Harrison you. This is a photograph or she had a very wellknown photographer or this is Frances Benjamin johnston, to photograph her grandchild, who became a global celebrity come isnt that right carl . She wanted to do because you want to control the publics interest in her family. Rather than have been exploited. Did it work . Not really. [laughter] they were happy to get the pictures, and then they still exploited them. The baby was like a cartoon character. He was used again little mascot for the administration. So you see this little cartoon of the little boy with a big hat of his grandfather. Another person who tried this was Edith Roosevelt using the same photographer. Theres a family photograph patch also want to control access to that big family. At the same time the president love the coverage. Until his daughter was photographed to keep up her winnings at the racetrack from a bookie last night and then he called the press and he called the New York Herald editor angrily on the phone and insisted that he withdraw the story, which he did. Who was the first lady to hire a fulltime press secretary . Well, in formal terms, jackie kennedy. The others had kind of function in that capacity. They knew they needed help. Like mrs. Hoover had four or five secretaries. One was very good with interfacing with the reporters so thats how another clip for you. This is too much fun. You know the white house Correspondents Dinner is another one of these big precedents. Its coming up this weekend and it has become hollywood on the east. Its become quite a thing. There have been times when first ladies and husbands have used that to help enhance the image. Lets watch laura bush at one of these just a few years ago. I said to george the other day, george, if you really want to end tyranny in the world you have to stay up later last. [laughter] [applause] i am married to the president of the united states, and heres our typical evening. 9 00 mr. Excitement here is sound asleep. [laughter] and im watching desperate housewives. [laughter] with lynne cheney. [laughter] ladies and gentlemen, i am a desperate housewife. [laughter] so there was a lot of criticism of the president s policy, especially among the press corps who were at this dinner. How did his technique of humor once again work to help that bushs image . You know, it didnt we are at war in this time and it doesnt change the coverage about the big issues of the day. But when people can laugh at themselves, nancy reagan, laura bush, Ronald Reagan george bush, bill clinton. It humanizes them in a way that can only help them. To clinton gave tenet a nasty speech at his peak he criticized bob dole, john kasich. By the and he was hiring professional writers who did want to follow him because hes so funny because making fun of himself being home alone. He had this whole skit. The first ladies started to do relatively recently. They dont make fun of themselves. Nancy did she had to. They make fun of their husbands its considered okay. If Hillary Clinton is president as she gives one of his speeches the whole town will want to know what she says about bill clinton. [laughter] this is going to be the last clip, and its clip, and effectively what president s have today, the tools that have today, social media, youtube and the like but it also is a difficult thing to manage because all day long people are commenting on their policies in the white house but its one of those giveth and taketh away things at the same time. This is a nice way to end this part of the discussion to see how a modern president uses the tools that we have of communication to help advance policy, to present the image of themselves. Hey, everybody, im so excited to talk to you about the fifth anniversary of lets move. Its a big one and our theme this year is to celebrate the challenge. We are going to what are you doing here . We are celebrating a big anniversary. All, are we still recording . Its been five years since we launched. Spent thats exactly i was going to say. Spent for starters im going to ask folks across the country to give me five. No kids parents maybe even a few celebrities to give you five ways to be healthy. For example, they can beat five fruits and veggies, 25 pushups or find a way to do five Healthy Habits into the daily routine spent even i have time for that spent thats the point. So everybody come give me five. Tweeted, instagram, facebook it with the hashtag give me five and then pass on the challenge to someone else. Are we still filming . Yes. By the way your tie is right there on the ground. I was doing pushups. [laughter] the really before you answer, or succumb went to art historians think about the state of the modern presidency and what we have been do . Its always been dashed whether its Andrew Jackson with his big tape, you know or harriet lane come in with her fan and making a real dramatic entrance. Whatever the changing technology is, these people are experts. They are leaders. They know they are leaders. They intend to lead and they only. And so i think just like the obamas did you saw the reagans do, you saw the kennedys do. You so i can name you do it. They all own it and its a stage and they know they are on it. The roles have evolved over time but the basics role is there, whether its a Martha Washington or Michelle Obama. There are certain things we are expecting of them in certain things the president is expecting of the first lady. But it changes according to the circumstances that they find themselves in. I might invite folks to its got up to microphones and they decide. Find your way out into the microphone and well get you questions and. So for Krissah Thompson and carl cannon, id ask you to they are doing this as a way to get around thats exactly right. The obamas exist in a world where their social media and its the First Administration to really utilize twitter, Facebook Instagram the first lady is also on pinterest. She has a tumblr page when she was in japan. In cambodia recently. And so when she was there she traveled with a youtube celebrity who asked her questions from twitter. But she did not sit down with traditional reporters. And so the way her staff would explain it is she has a certain amount of time to do communications and she wants to meet people where they are here and the people are coming to her, following her by the millions on twitter and able to see the photos that they put out on instagram, then you know the power of being able to shape ones own image without the quoteunquote filter other traditional media is there in a way that it wasnt before. Ive interviewed Michelle Obama. She did more interviews with traditional media earlier on and shes a great interview. Frank answers to questions, as well as all the things you would imagine so its not a lack of capability, but there is a power in being able to exercise the ability to get on magazine covers, to be on latenight television to have daytime tv conversations that shapes the conversation in a way that the white house is fully in control. Karl, Quick Response. Theres nothing wrong with that. Its a good cause but its not partisan, not controversial. Its healthy. We dont like them going around us on Health Care Policy and policy in City Government has a problem but does nothing wrong with that. Not everybody can pull it off as well as they do. First question over here. There were reports or rumors that at least 21st ladies that i know actually ran the country when their husbands were able come and those were mrs. Wilson and nancy reagan. Is that true or is it not true . I would just say, in every sort of a Quick Response to that, when you say the presidency, you have to look at the different components of the presidency. One of it is making final decisions on things, sometimes its approving things, sometimes its making a decision did not make a decision, sometimes its firing, sometimes its hiring. So yes partially edith wilson assume some of it during the days of real crisis, and, of course, a real agenda was to protect her husband from getting worse and hopefully getting better. Nancy reagan, know. I would say nancy reagan, worked in a sense behaved fulfilled a function that might be similar to a west wing aid maybe senior advisor, you know, but not assuming the role of the president. We realize that first lady while the husband is in office is kind of stuck with the role. What happens to first ladies afterward . How much privacy do they have . How much can they go off script . Whats life like for them . I spent a little time with laura bush last year. She was eager to talk about how much she is enjoying life postpresidency. It was interesting to watch her because she was very much shaped by sort of i wouldnt use the word reluctant necessarily, but a quiet behind the scenes spouse. That we see are traveling more than the former president. Shes working on launching a Global Program that will bring first ladies around the world together and test them with some of that in africa. Shes been in washington with Michelle Obama. She disorder talks about the freedom of still having the platform which first ladies now do with the modern president ial library and his these foundations that they can choose to still talk about causes that important to them to do it in a way where she could choose to sit down with the press for a few minutes, but not dogged by media and the lack of privacy that comes along with living here. Thats a subject for another whole exploration, the platforms, the influence that they continue to have spent broadly court has had his great career along with jim. We talk about jimmy carter being a cliche, hes a great expresident , not ever agrees with that buddies and all these things and shes been right there with them. They monitored elections and they build homes for habitat for humanity. Shes as much his partner as they were in the white house. Its hard to expect he is a partner to her because she really, shes a fascinating one ever gets almost no press. Because she doesnt not necessary for press per se or quit but to get our work in Mental Health is back to the 70s when he was governor. Shes really have an impact in the field. Jimmy wrote a book and he said, hes written many books but he said hes having the best sex of his life. [laughter] thats tmi because he was in his 70s, so was she. But against the postpresidency has been fun for her. [laughter] that she think of the same . [laughter] how do you follow that . [laughter] hi. Either question about Lady Bird Johnson. She was active in her husbands war on Poverty Program especially head start project for preschool to i just wanted to if you have any stores or integration on the things she did . So much. It was a Sargent Shriver who was president kennedys of course brotherinlaw who worked under the peace corps, under president kennedy and then headed up the voluntary, i government private, a government wing of like this Publicprivate Partnership on voluntary stuff. He came up with the idea of head start and he went to her and she backed it 100 , became his spokesperson dick went to bat for it and would help establish a. The highway beautification bill was called the labor bill. Thats what johnson called it when he went around twisting arms and kicking guys in the shins come where is ladybirds bill . Although the clip you showed up for critiquing his speech. She may not have liked that because when he signed the bill at october 221965, he never mentioned her name. So maybe thats how he got her back for the critique. Heres a question from twitter, which first lady sought to be influential but was the least successful at it . Thats really, i think in some way you could say Hillary Clinton because [laughter] know. Just mean in terms of fairness i mean, she always made the case that she really, when he came to policy matters, she had to make a case for something or against Something Like any other adviser did come in sometimes the president said no. I think that that, you know we know of the welfare reform. Those little bit of contention between them. Its not 100 known on all the matters that she didnt win, but there were quite a few that she did not. What about lou hoover . Very talented person but she doesnt get her story out. Do we have that photo while we are talking about . Wouldnt even agree to do it because with people and theres the story of the female reporter dressed up as a girl scout and crashed a meeting and wrote a story. She was met and never talked to anybody again ever. There was a reason why she dressed up as a girl scout the because you hoover took on the girl scouts as a major effort but it was during she was trying to encourage volunteerism spent she was successful at that. And theres a photograph. Shes doing a radio broadcast about the girl scouts trying to get into the committee to help with a lot of the trouble going on. Theres been a sort of interesting undercurrent i think for this whole conversation about how ideas of women and influence expectations that women face when they become first lady. I think its partly why it seemed like such a paradigm shift now that we talk about potential having a first husband. And, of course, the our first spouses around the world for women who are leaders right now. I would love to hear what you have to say about if you were advising the clintons you know how should they approach that potential serving a role for americans, for the american presidency . Could we get the laura bush clip about the future of first lady and ready while our panelists are answering that . I would say quickly because ive done some research on this. Two things. Number one bill clinton has been functioning these last eight years, these last 12 years, 16 years it will be as a first gentlemen. When you look at the status he is head and the role he takes on in the persona its not too dissimilar from the kinds of roles that first ladies have played. Is usually nonpartisan. Its usually not too political. The second thing is went to look at the press during the 1984 president ial election with the democratic Vice President ial candidate, was suddenly thrust in public. Are all kinds of questions raised about what kind of influences he had come to the talk about policy, what are his business interests bikes ive always maintained that while sexism as at the root of a lot of this stuff, its really more about the unaccountable power of a spouse. Outside the realm of American History communicate other World Governments and see the issues have come up when theres been a male spouse to a female in power in one form of government or another. And that undetectable power is why we are really talking of these women spend typing taking a look at that pic in terms of on the state level because we have five women who are serving as governor now come and they are all married. So they are first gentlemen in new hampshire, new mexico, oklahoma come at a couple of other states. Its interesting because while at the state level spouses whether they are male or theme can also continue in their careers. This sort of official role that they play in their spouses administration looks very much like what first ladies do. They take on projects with the executive mansion in the state and they are responsible for restoration. They usually have some sort of cause, whether its big or small. The first gentlemen of oklahoma actually posed for the front of a cookbook and the proceeds went to a nonprofit. He has his apron on and he has a platter of chicken and ribs. You know, its a macho cookbook but its a cookbook. The role of a spouse like karl was saying, still remains that of a support. If the family have small children often and this is as marriage has changed generally right . You are seeing a spouse who is not the government male or female, is the spouse that then becomes more responsible for caregiving and takes those things on, because their spouse has the more important job. We had a chance to interview laura bush for this project and now im wishing we picked the clip where she had a little edge to her voice were she says i wonder if theyre going to critique the qaeda ties they work the same way the clip we chose for you should we pay our first ladies . Heres what she had to say. The interesting question will is not should they receive a salary but should they be able to work for a salary at their job that they might have already had. And i think that question will have to come to terms with. You know, certainly a first gentleman my continue to work at whatever he did, if he was a lawyer whatever. So i think thats really the question we should ask. Should she have a career during those years her husband as president , in addition to serving as first lady spent we are about to see over the next year and have also all kinds of questions that come up as this new situation is thrust upon us. We have about five minutes left and the going to ask you all to wrap up because there was a question we dignity which was a game changer. Who are the women throughout history who were in this role that really made a difference . That people should spend more time to find more out about them . Eleanor roosevelt. I do think that you could find anybody who fits that title more than eleanor roosevelt. This is a woman who was welleducated, had real serious concerns about where the country was. Was married to the most powerful man in the country. In the world perhaps. But she had her own agenda. She was riding writing news columns. She was doing radio show. She was a newsreels. She was defined the dar resigning her membership. She was a member of the board of the naacp. Shes doing her own thing and so it may be that theres never been a first lady before or since like her, i think she sort of standalone, what she was able to accomplish. As her own self, not just as the extension of her husband and her husband interest, which he was able to accomplish on their own. Carl cannon . I would sit eleanor roosevelt. For all these reasons and ill give a couple other examples. Roosevelt was courting southern democrats for reelection again and again. Shes confronting him privately on this. They are writes in the shipyard. These that are fighting fighting world war ii fighting racism, fighting nazis and you cant let these shipyard be segregated. When she doesnt get satisfaction on this she goes outside. Other people in the party. Shes a social liberal and sometimes that means youre a racial liberal. She has rival Power Centers and shes not afraid to call people. That newspaper column that she writes this is a president so strong, bess truman did want to do. Mamie eisenhower did want to do but there was a precedent so strong it is not going away. Theyve all done. Is any good Michelle Obama gave the other day, you could hear echoes of eleanor into. Its all seamless. The first question they asked her, whats the coolest part of the java . I got to meet the pope i got to meet George Clooney last night got to meet the queen. But then she talks about policy stuff, too. To me eleanor is the prototype. Her column was called by day and she went through the serious issues. Thats right. I was a first im eager to see how history remembers Michelle Obama. And im a texan and so lady bird has a special appeal for me. I love that clip that you showed earlier because we know what a tough guy lbj was and how they spoke to people and the way that she just came same in that conversation last night its quite brilliant. And also karl anthony mention all the earlier the work that she did on beautification and the way in which we can now see in retrospect that that really laid some groundwork for the environment, the movement we all know today that did not exist in the way that it did then. And being from texas and going to sing dont mess with texas and everywhere in the for the bluebonnets better than just what that means and to know that she in her role as first lady influence all all of that in a way that was quite subtle and not necessary understood at the time but that we now do you understand. Carl camden ago i would ask you, give us some things we havent heard. Dolley madison, because she was one of the first who had a real sense of duty to a constituency, meaning the country. It was unusual for a woman back then to proceed as part of her proper role as sense of duty in connection to the general public. Jacqueline kennedy very strongly because of her sense of where the u. S. Was in the cold war, how democracy could be presented in a way that it hadnt, and that in a sense america come of age and had as much dignity and at a right to maintain that dignity on the world stage. And she did that with betty ford by taking very very personal and really emotional issues and not losing the power of that but using that to help others. I think its those like Michelle Obama them very much like eleanor roosevelt. I have to agree with is eleanor roosevelt. But they realize time is ticking. Anything had happened in a moment. Your husband could die be shot, resigning him anything. You have this opportunity to make a change. People are going to like you and hate you know matter what. They will like you and hate you you because the way to look because what they think about you because of what you say, because of everything and just got to say to hell with it and just use the time to get it done. Those up in the game changers. I want to say thank you to our panelists, my colleague, mark who is in a booth right back after he was the executive producer for our first ladies series and help with the schedule ample all those clips and all of the video and pictures so thank you very much, mark, for what you have done. [applause] so far cspan audience, sorry those of us who are here to to have dessert and you guys have defined your own. I would like to invite on behalf of cspan anyone whos here just after. We will have a book signing and had to type that always make me feel rather embarrassed to say buy my book. But if youre interested in buying it, although the proceeds of the book go to the cspan Education Foundation and we use it to do teacher scholarships, student documentary contest and things like that so a few bite your help so a few bite you are helping with a good cause. Thank you so much for being here tonight. [applause] by the way, they will all stay so if you want them to sign their book they are the valuable signature. [inaudible conversations]. At the exportimport banks annual conference or in washington d. C. Cspan, created by americas Cable Companies 35 years ago and brought to you as a Public Service by your local cable or satellite provider. Host and

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