Transcripts For CSPAN2 Discussion On Middle East Peace Process 20151230

Good afternoon, my name is yonah alexander, im the director by the Potomac Institute of International Studies as well as the Inter University Center Institute in cooperation with many academic institutions, universities around the world, specifically i would like to mention the center for National Security of the university of Virginia School of law. On behalf of ceo and chairman of the Potomac Institute, he extends his welcome to you. Unfortunately he is out of the country, as i understand. At any rate, our colleagues and the Vice President in the back is with us and, of course, general gray, the chairman of the board of regents and 29th commandant of the marines corpse corps. But at any rate, let me welcome the speakers. First right here professor Mohamed Dajani to my left with currently fellow, the Washington Institute and he obviously contributed a great deal to understand islam and served as professor of Political Science university in jerusalem and will make a presentation today and obviously many of you are familiar with the very distinction contribution and involvement of family in jerusalem. We do, of obviously, have the information about the speakers. I wont go into details. Our speaker from the Israeli Embassy in washington reuven azar will also participate and is well known to the audience here. He participated in a number of seminars and con strib outed to our report on this israeli and so forth. Basically our Mission Today to end with the question of jerusalem, whether the escalating tension and violence in the recent months at least in the three months ignite the war in the middle east and beyond and yet at the time of christmas that the world is celebrating peace on earth, the question arises whether the spirit of the sacred city of jerusalem thats honored christianity and islam will encourage building the foundations for peace in the middle east and the holy land and so on. And this and others issues will be included discussion, for example, Historical Context background of jerusalem, the political aspect as well as the various related issues, the role of religion, for example. So i would like to invite the speakers, they will take over in a few minutes. I would like to thank radio and television for bringing this seminar to the attention of wider audience in the United States and internationally. In addition to that, as always we like to mention anniversary dates related to violence that for us we can diffuse some of the negative aspects of the realization of conflict and try to advance the cause with justice. So number one, we remember the victims of violence and terrorism. Let me mention two specifically. One, in fact, related to date december 21, 1988 which is the 27th anniversary of the american one or three that destroyed cotland 259 passengers were killed, most of them, of course, americans and 11 on the ground and many of you will remember that libya was responsible for that tragedy. And also on Christmas Day 2009 the anniversary, nigh nigerian, attempted to destroy deontonate explosives over detroit. Of course, it was connected with alqaeda in the arabian pi anyone peninsula all the way from paris to california to jerusalem, sanie and so forth. One moderator, i feel that i am really that for 25 years i lived, studied and worked in gentlemen are you jerusalem, although my family came to palestine, the first group in 1921 and then the early 30s, i grew up in the city but i always considered myself a member of the population of jerusalem. On the academic level i was involved in finishing for some 25 years related to war and peace and terrorism. Now, i would like to mention specifically in june 1967i had the privilege and honor to open the campus specifically since we do have a few lawyers here at the law school, and i had a group of students, about 30 students that came from the United States and other countries. So the first assignment that i gave to the students was not to write a paper but to clean up the restroom that was not used about 19 years because of the separation of the city from the new city and western city in jerusalem and since that time we had scholars who came from all over the world to join us and to participate in our academic work, including some of the readers, paris, for example, clergy, christian, muslims and others who participated in our work. Again, academically, we focused on jerusalem for a very long time. I would just like to mention one particular study, which is related to our subject today not for publicity purpose but for back in 1973 we had a project at colombia university, the school of journalism, how can religion advance in the middle east and book of the middle east. Im mentioning this because theres no way that one can discuss the issue of jerusalem separates from the palestinian conflict, israeli conflict and the conflict between israel and the muslim world and the international issue. So let me just begin by reminding all of us, we are familiar with jerusalem with the same way we are familiar with has cue, berlin, again, to remind us, what are we talking about going back to the old testament, the new testament, the temple in jerusalem in other words, we are talking about the sacred side and, of course, the war, temple and their mosques and pope francis to jerusalem. So again, i think we have a big agenda, and again, i think the question that we are going to discuss today, what are the factors that encourage violence and terrorism and perhaps might trigger a third world war as some people predict, how can we diffuse some of the negative elements from a political conflict related to israel, palestine and so on and perhaps this can serve as a model for other conflicts around the world, so with this i would like to invite reuven azar to discuss some of the issues. Thank you, yonah. Good morning, everybody, its really a pleasure to appear before in the Potomac Institute again. I think that the key for peace if you want to avoid continuation of war is acceptance, acceptance of the other. I could speak here a whole hour and a whole day regarding the connection between the jewish people and jerusalem and talk about the history and establish the capital of the israeli kingdom and about the first and Second Temple and the fact that jews pray three times a day every day for going back to jerusalem to restore as the capital and place in which the temple is restored. The leaders have an ideology and they are educated. So the problem we have is the radicals are educated. And unless we defeated them it will be very difficult to promote the message of acceptance of the other into those religion to promote. One of the problems we have in jerusalem, i was raised there, is that religion is being manipulated. In the last spark of violence that we are suffering from now, before that there was a campaign, and well organized campaign actually by the Islamic Movement in israel, claimed that israel wants to change the status quo of the temple mount. Now, this is not the first time that religion is being manipulated in that way. It goes back to the beginning of the conflict. Even not only before 67 but before 48. In 1929, for example, when a terrible massacre happened in jerusalem, the very Old Community was erased from the map. People were killed. It was part by initiative of jews in the wailing wall to put the separation between men and women. So this sparked a rumor that the jews are going to take over the temple mount. And what happened is that before, it was well known, including in the publications of the wealth at that time, i think it was the Washington Institute which found this booklet in, actually and the library of congress or archives that mentioned the publication from 1923 that said that temple is the same location in which the temple of solomon was built. And actually the term is something that is well known. Actually in one of the isis related organizations, they exist in the sinai. So this trying to rejection, trying to rewrite history and disconnect the narrative of the jew, the connection to the holy land was part of a nationalistic, antinationalistic or antizionist movement, it was actually there for defeated, will we know today as the palestinian movement. Although the first, those rejections, the first ones, they were not necessary to fund themselves as palestinians. So how can we deal with rejectionists . Thats a very, very difficult challenge because, and i followed it when i served in jordan. We were dealing on a daytoday basis of trying to settle this, this problem that we have. The approach of reseal has been very interesting, just when we came to jerusalem back in 1967, after all these years, hundreds and thousands of years of praying for jerusalem, when came to the temple mount, to the haram, he sat on the floor, he called for the priest, and he gave them the key for the temple. The idea of the leaders at that time was that in order for us to solve the conflict, but we have to do at the end of the day is to separate between religion and religious rights, edition of religious tolerance, it did not take over the places are sacred for the other. Another very important event was in 1994 when Prime Minister rabin signed the peace agreement, the peace accord with jordanians. Because that was the first time that any leader in the world recognized the role of the hashemites. Now, why israel did that . Because israel wanted to maintain, to promote the idea that you can separate and solve religious issues separate from national issues. We have a national conflict, we have to solve it. But if we draw religion into the conflict we wont able to solve its we have to respect other religions to respect the role that also the religious role of the legitimate that was very interesting because at that point in time no other arab leader has declared that it respects the role of the hashemites family in the haram and israel was the first one. Last year, i think you should go, there was a second want to recognize the role of the hashemites have a Hashemite King in jerusalem. So in the last two years i think we are also having another phenomenon that is worrying for us, because although israel is a democracy and we respect religion and we are being, although we are being attacked for many years, there is radicalization process in israel itself as well. And we have jewish radicals. Of course, you cannot compare whats going on in the region that we have to deal with that. We have seen in the last year or two an increase in the number of victims of jewish care. And we have seen some people in israel that are trying to call for the change thats going in the couple not come into haram. Now, temple mount, into haram. We try to find radicalization fight radicalization. The president , Prime Minister of doing as much as they can then go to thwart those radicals. But also i think the government has come out and said very clearly, Prime Minister said very clearly that israel will not change the status quo in the temple mount. There is incitement around this, propaganda, and people around the arab world are completely sure that israel wants to take over the mosque but we are not going to do that because we believe that although jerusalem, and although that place which is the most sacred place for us, have a connection to us, we have to respect it. Also, the aspirations and the religion of others. So just to wrap it up, i would say that if we manage to find partners that will not only will join us in promoting moderation but also will recognize our narrative, then we have a chance of negotiating peace. You know, we have negotiated, even jerusalem in the last few years when, under the brock government, and the suggestions on the table where very, very revolutionary and very ambitious. I think that we can get to that point when we hear from the other side, from the leaders of the palestinians, the arab world that theyre willing to recognize the historic connection of the jews to the holy land and to jerusalem. The religious connection a National Recognition for if we manage, if we have become if israelis we have become it is raise you the side i think there will be much more prone to compromise on the issue of jerusalem. So thats more or less wraps of the. Thank you very much. Before i let you go i know you have a schedule conflict here, but let me ask you two questions. Number one, to provide some clarity, you mentioned the role of jordan in particular, their unique role, and just for transparency, i invite also the diplomats of the embassy of jordan because of schedule conflicts, they couldnt make it. But clearly, by the way i intended a ceremony between jordan and israel. Now, the question is related to the status, number one, of jerusalem. The whole idea of the internationalization of jerusalem that was initially advanced in 1947, and later on. Secondly, the status of a sacred sites, not only in jerusalem, not elsewhere like bethlehem, nazareth and so forth. So in other words, said we do have a number of i thought it would be of great interest, thank you. I think we are two separate between National Rights and religious rights. We have a conflict with the palestinians. We think that jerusalem is the capital of israel because of our connections that were already mentioned with the city. And this is something you have to settle with the palestinians. And there were different stages in which we negotiated such as you such a solution. On the religious side i think that we have two state to the principle that we are not going to we have to stick to the principle that were not going to make religious rights National Rights. And its interesting because in our area of the world, unlike in the west, our model of democracy we dont separate religion and state. But even though we dont separate religion and state, because of many cultural reasons we can when it comes to rights, we can do the separation and i think this can help us in getting into the solution. And such solutions when it comes to control of religious sides, we are already almost there because the holy separate for is controlled by christians and the wailing wall is controlled by jews. So we can find when it comes to religion, as long as everybody has a right to exercise their religion, we can find the solutions. Maybe we can go, go deeper into this issue. The claim, for example, that israel is trying to change the status quo on the temple mount, and so forth, and again, this actually does encourage i think more sanctions environment. It reminds me very vividly going back to 1969 when i was, again, teaching in jerusalem, and there was an australian christian who set fire to a mosque in jerusalem, it is simply actually not only the people in jerusalem, the palestinians, the arabs, but muslims all over the world. So my question is, what is basically the israeli policy, visavis to preserve the status quo in jerusalem and elsewhere . Ill give you an example. When i was in jordan i saw that there is something going on in the jordanian press. The jordanian press was conflating the protocols of the meetings that the Israeli Knesset in which members of knesset of israel were asking, why cannot jews come to the mosques and pray . Because this would be their natural right, according to them. So the jordanian opposition was translating that, and that created a sort of series of attacks of the position in jordan against the jordanian government, against the king. And it played into the conspiracy theories that the leader of the Islamic Movement in israel, that incorporate with hamas, it played into this game. So it didnt help how many times israel said its not going to change the status quo, and it doesnt matter whether Israeli Police actually polices the place. And every jew that comes to the temple mount, or to the haram come is being watched by police we doesnt open his mouth and pray, okay . This is so delicate. That government is doing its work but the problem is that there is a lot of people around that are trying to play, playing this because they want to benefit from this politically. And our challenge is to cope with it. Fortunately, we are not engaged with security and government and were trying to advance this project of putting cameras on the temple mount so people have a chance to look directly, life, whats going on. Usually what needs to happen is that because of the fact that people that were called that are linked with Islamic Movement come you to go to the mosques, to the mosque, stay there for the night and then in the morning tried to disrupt either jews that were coming as a tourist to the mount or throw stones at the wailing wall. So before the last jewish feast day, beginning of the year, the world employed imploded. Using explosives. That was something we foiled and that generated this whole series of incitement and violence, et cetera. So we have a challenge. And as much as we have cooperation from the jordanians, and we wish wed corporation on the palestinian leadership that has do not promote incitement that you actually to condemn the incitement come if we had that we can take control of the situation. But if we dont we will continue to be a very serious problem for us. If i can ask a question before we opened up to questions from the audience, this will relate navy to experience in the mount, entire in the peace negotiations. Because many people are concerned that you cannot solve the problem of jerusalem without solving the palestinianisraeli conflict, with the Palestinian Authority and so forth. Are you pessimistic or optimistic that that particular conflict, not only between the palestinian and the israelis, but the israelis with some of the other arab countries such as saudi arabia and the modern world and our to be resolved, and thereby you can also resolve the issue with the jerusalem . Im optimistic, first of all, because im an optimistic person. But in addition to that im optimistic because first of all i believe in the power of the jewish people and the state of israel to prevail. But i am somewhat optimistic because i think something very substantial is going on in the region now and in the world. People understand what are the dangers of radical islam, and people in the region also understand how undermined the archive is like of ideologies. And a few years ago when i was, we were doing our annual research am my previous position i was head of doing this research, we identified that there was a phenomenon that is actually a stabilize within the stabilized region that we have. And this stabilizer, we call it, instead of calling it grassroo grassroots, crest of the neighbors is always greener. We see the grass of the neighbor is optional darker. Win for example, arab israelis, whats going on in the region, or when palestinians in the west bank at whats going on benghazi. And they look whats going on in syria. Many people have a sense of how threatened they are by the radical forces but its not that theyre becoming suddenly very in love with israel, okay . But they understand what is realistic and what is not. They understand that first of all for example, as ever is raised have a chance to fight for equality. Jordanians and egyptians understand that israel is a forceful stability in the region. And it doesnt generate love for zionism, okay . But it generates a realistic sense that we have to Work Together to fight extremism, to fight the iranian threat to fight faces, different all the other threads that we are having in the region right now. And in that sense i think that we have a chance. We are cooperating much more with the jordanians, with egyptians. With the Palestinian Security forces. Because they know that if we dont cooperate, at the end of the day hamas and Islamic Jihad and isis, you name it, they will take over. So if we manage to exacerbate that into incorporate that and combine it with strong leadership and a Peace Process that includes acceptance, then i think we will be better off. We have a few minutes to ask the audience for some questions but if you have a question or a comment. My name is ron taylor, im a senior fellow with the George Washington University Center for cyber and homeland security, but i do a lot in counterterrorism. So from the outside, the mideast always looks unstable, instability, unstable have a ton dependence to them, you become one of your stable for a long time, a short period of time is kind of a relative thing. I guess my question is, you know, what do you see as the future of, yo you know, and they just feed off of your comment about israel being a force for stability, and i can see the end of the countries in the region. What do you see as the future for the nationstate itself in that area . Because, you know, that also is an example of possible degeneration of the nationstate concept. Right. I think thats a great question, and this is a question i was trying to discuss with my researchers when i was in jerusalem, and when we look at the region. For many years we were looking at the region and we had mubarak and assad, king hussein and its like, yeah, it was a very thrilling. It was very stable and we didnt foresee many changes. Now you have to open every day and to fight for the new organization, the people that are coming active in the region. So at some point i told my team, look, lets stop looking at countries. Lets start looking at institutions. We charge the institutions in the region that you can count on to be influenced, to be influenced, and when it comes to your question, what are the institutions that we can embrace and we can bring force . So when you look at the Egyptian Army, for example, people are not very pro or they dont like in the west Egyptian Army. That i can understand that. When it comes to israel can also its not very encouraging. There is this famous joke about, its not famous, maybe it will be now, about when the Muslim Brotherhood had broken the ceasefire between israel and hamas, so many nationalists in egypt were saying, hes a zionist. No, hes cooperating with israel. And when sese brokered a ceasefire between israel and hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood was a hes a scientific so if both of them were right, most of them with a zionist but, unfortunately, they are both wrong. But this is the situation. These are the institutions we have come with its Egyptian Army or whether it is the most brotherhood or any other force, any other institution that takes power. We have to look, you know, if its not completely is not complete legitimate because it gives everybody like transit or isis. Went to see how to enforce those players and those institutions. In jordan you have a strong government, a strong intelligence service. So you structures, a Strong Financial banking system. Lets work with those. Lets reinforce those that have a chance to deliver, okay . The same goes to the Palestinian Authority. We have a process to 20 years in which we invested, okay, we are not saying israelis would have invested, if we would investment would be better off, but you have an investment of 20 years. You have Palestinian Security at work but cannot for think a plot by hamas, for example. Com we change that . How can we make the Palestinian Security apparatus believe for palestinians including against hamas . Maybe well have a palestinian state. The approach has to be both ways. This is what i think. Are your time here. It does to the negotiated mutual recognition, palestinians would like to raise the flag in jerusalem, and at one time that was a nono by israelis. Is it conceivable that the arab sector could become a palestinian capital as well speak with its going to be up to the leaders at that time to determine. We can be in a situation that is held some way or another. And the flag is part of the solution. Now, you can imagine, and you have to imagine everything if you want to reach a settlement. But the question really is how to get there. Because we thought for many years, people are telling us, especially now that youre the arab spring you should have used the advantage for promoting peace with the palestinians. But one of those difficult things that they have, the most difficult challenges they face here in washington is to sort of give the sense of the israeli psyche. Professor to johnny worked on that and did remarkable work in trying to pass the psyches but im fairly as an israeli to committed the second israelis to americans. Because when you see isis decapitating some heads in syria, people who get very mobilize everyone to fight radical islam, right . Imagine what happens to israelis in times like this, when they see whats going on in the region. How more conservative they become, how much risk adverse they become. Of course, we dont want to be in a situation right now that we give territory back and have the isis like on the other side of the border. So we have to build bottom up in order to secure the region by having a player there that will be prowestern, that would be democratic, that will be uncorrupt, that would make the future palestinian state thrive. And not as kissinger said i think it was two months ago we became to a coronation for rabin, not establish another arab state. We dont want that. Okay, another question right there. I was born in tehran. Jerusalem, as you know, made up of major religions, and for many years there were struggles between everybody. Now we like to know at what point would people of israel feel secure that the conflict can end . So you have some kind of vision but that security can be, 20 years, 50 years, 100 years from now . Because its been going on for about 60 years now so i would like to hear that you can also one more question. [inaudible] theres been about what, 3000 years, 4000, how many jewish people do we have in the world . Well, the last question, to date the estimation is that are about 18 million jews. The jewish religion, unlike christianity and islam, is not in the business of getting more, more converts. And being a jew was very difficult for many centuries, for reasons that you already know. Pilgrims, attacks its juice, soda. I think we will feel secure when we have a situation which we have no more rejection but acceptance. And that we have security. Because even, not only the israeli right. The israeli supreme right is not in favor of controlling the lives of the palestinians. So the question is whether we can get into the regime that is Strong Enough that will maintain security in a way that we can also withdraw from places in which we mutually agree with palestinians that we will be the future of the palestinian state. That can happen five years, intended come in 100, i dont know but we have to work on th that. Thank you very much. Might craft, im an old middle east counterterrorism expert. I first visited jerusalem as a young reporter before the 67 war. It was a pretty deadly city, frankly. And then i have been there since then and theres a fair amount of integration. You would see arab families in the malls and things of that sort. But since the rates and outbreak of us understand barriers have been put up for the two sides of jerusalem and the cities is more or less divided. Do you foresee that things will go back to quote normal very quickly if the violence ends . How do you see the future of jerusalem function as a city . Well, unfortunately, we have experienced that and weve seen waves of violence before it and as much as the waves were higher, thus it could be measures were also tighter. What we are trying to do this time, i think what the government is trying to do is to keep normalize as much as they can to alqaeda one example. The movement from palestinian workers to israel. There are about 120,000 palestinians from the west bank that are coming to israel to work every day. And although a very small number of of them, one or two, have been involved in stabbings, the Israeli Government is withstanding a lot of pressure from cabinet members and others to put a closure on the west bank. Now, when it comes to jerusalem itself, we have erected this fence and wall in jerusalem. We didnt want to do that. Actually a right wing in israel was against it. The center and the left in is a word for it because they wanted to protect themselves from attacks. They wanted to protect life which is the main right. Now, whether we can we do that, i hope that we can. I hope that if, not only see this way of violence waning but we reach a settlement, we can we move those security measures, and weve seen in the past after the second intifada has a situation stabilizing, we removed many restrictions. I know the clock is ticking. Do you have a question . Okay, one more question. Do you see isis isolation around the world right now, do you foresee any change in the cabinet position . Now or in the Israeli Government positions . Regarding what . Regarding peace and regarding security. Well, i think that Prime Minister netanyahu said in his last visit to washington that, first of all we have an opportunity to cooperate with our arab neighbors, arab countries that are interested, like us, inviting the radicals, the islamic radicals, inviting attempts to change, to some first their own regimes. And we can maybe in the right circumstances create a dialogue, regional dialogue that will be conducive to the bilateralism. So i think that there is a global do that. Having said that as i said before, we will have to overcome a lot of animosity and fear that is cratered exactly by this kind of force. And you know, i dont have to go far away. What happened after several attacks the isis, how people are reacting in this country . So also israelis have to overcome that. Matter of fact, people come one of the great dramas of this nation is 9 11. Israel has been in nine 9 11 for the last 67 years. So the possibility change the psyche and go from a situation in which you become less risk adverse is going to be an enormous challenge. Went to Work Together with our neighbors to try to lower those barriers of fear. I cannot resist but ask you a final question. We focus on the palestinian and some of the arab states. Can you comment on the gulf of iran . Of course everyone is looking the Iranian Nuclear issue, but how is the link with the issue of jerusalem . In other words, the iranian and nonarab states view related to the solution of the jerusalem problem. Well, this is another impediment. The iranian revolution has created what we call you have this march in tehran every day. Today the Iranian Regime wants to challenge not only the legitimacy of israeli control of jerusalem but also the legitimacy of control of the saudis of mecca. Its a march, a much larger conflict and rivalry we have there. The other problem is that the iranians are much more powerful. The decapitations of isis are very intimidating, but what happens with countries that possess, that are trying to possess nuclear weapons, and the Missile Technology and they have the forces in the region that they are working, players like assad and others. Thats much more difficult challenge. But i think that we have proven in the past and we can overcome that. When, for example, we did also with the palestinians, yes the iranians were there in 94 to try to fortify, to promote hamas, to promote suicide attacks of hamas. Were going to all the time a rainy sunday for the any piece of a broker between us and the palestinians and the arabs. Weve seen the subversion of iranian on jordan so have a challenge but it doesnt mean that we cannot continue to strive for peace. Thank you very much for coming. I know you have to leave. Thank you very much. [applause] and very much. I would like to thank professor alexander and the institute for inviting me to what id like to do is come and to explore the status of jerusalem and also offering insights in order to resolve the problem. I will start by introducing my Family Association with the city and then talk to look at about the history of the city and then discuss some potential way of trying to resolve the problem on the city. Actually in 1929 they appointed my great read father to be the custodian of the king david do. So it was come and in the first mayor actually, the Ottoman Empire started the municipalities and the empire by having one. The second one was in jerusalem and Aref Pasha Dajani was appointed then as the mayor and then the general became a mayor in 1918. This is Family Picture for the family in 1942. This is my fathers wedding, and actually in 1948 the dajani family saved a family having been in their room, the arab quarter after the jewish quarter fell and save the library from being burned. So that was the Family Association. There is a lot to but i just mention it. This is a verse from the koran that reflects, reflects this taltalking going to talk about. Let me just say that thats why what i will be talking what im saying is how the rule over jerusalem has been underestimated between the muslims, the christians and the jews. And so it is basically from the ancient history. Jerusalem has been the site of glories and catastrophes, a place that has been witnessed to transition and occupation a diversity of nations and target of pilgrimages throughout the nations. Jews believed that the ritzy was opened to allow the jews to cross safely and then closed to drown pharaoh and his army and that moses spoke to god on mount sinai and receive from the 10 commandments. Christians believe jesus resurrected from the dead, and muslims believe that the nocturnal journey of mohammed to jerusalem carried by state where he met Archangel Gabriel into senator levin and that the profits and got. So each avenue to get part of the solution to the conflict is to respect the narrative of the other enough to deny it or to refute it. In 638 muslims conquered jerusalem, and was taken by patriarch to the church of the holy scripture. He was invited to pray in the church but refused fearing muslims would turn churches into mosques, which some of them did later. He prayed outside, and on the side of his bag, arose the mosque but if you go there, you will find the mosque of omar what he prayed. It has to be taken to the sector from which probable, descended to have been. He picked a mosque near it which is called alaqsa mosque. It allowed jews to reside. They were banned from being do so. They built the dome on the side of the same rock where abraham was prepared to sacrifice his son and it was also that noah put, the ship of no also landed on that rock which is very holy. So basically in 1852 sometimes after, the issued the status quo declaration which regulated mutual rights of christian institutions in jerusalem and asserted the status quo in jerusalem should prevail. And actually the status quo has been respected even to this very day. Though they surrendered the city of jerusalem in november 1917, the general latest entrants to the city until the ninth of december to coincide with the Christmas Celebration to deliver his conquest a victory, religious aura. Austrian troops fled the city in 1916 and then actually a dismounted from his horse to enter on foot and respect for the city. And it was partly a response to the pompous entry of german Kaiser Wilhelm of the second on a white horse upon his visit in 1898 and is the world was partly bridge to accommodate them. To actually there are two things that both of them, both visits have harmed jerusalem. One is the visit of kaiser, the wall was breached or to allow him to go in and so he walked in on foot and then he actually met, he delivered his victory speech pledging to jerusalem to be the city of peace. In november of 1947 the u. N. Partition to internalize the city. So basically it was divided and palestine was divided into an arab state and a jewish state, and jerusalem was supposed to be internationalized, including bethlehem. However, when the british left, palestine, the general, the british general was asked to whom did you leave palestine rex and his response was, i left the key under the doormat. So after 1948 war, 85 of jerusalem was captured by jewish forces, which became was jerusalem. 11 of the city, including the old city fell under the control of the jordan come and 4 of the city was considered no mans land in which the u. N. Headquarters were established. On december 13, 1949, israel declared western muslim the capital in violation of International Law and u. N. Resolution. On december 19, the u. N. Responded by restating its intention to place jerusalem under a Permanent International regime. However, the city remained divided under israeli and jordanian rule. So it was in june 1967 israel remained divided socially and psychologically. In june 67 the Israeli Knesset extended the israeli jurisdiction despite law. So here we have, this is the crux of the problem because people would say why should israel give up jerusalem, or should concede anything in jerusalem . So the question lives here in International Law. Because in 1948 jewish forces captured west of jerusalem and later declared the capture of israel, overriding the resolution to internationalize the city. And 67 Israeli Forces captured East Jerusalem and later declared in the external capital of jerusalem come of israel, overriding a u. N. Resolution not to change the character of the city. I will come to that, to the significance of this later. However, israel kept the administration of the compound can continue to be maintained by the jordanian religious. So in september 1993 a declaration of principles listed jerusalem as one of the issues to be negotiated at a later stage. And the Israeli Foreign minister at the time come shimon paris, promised that nothing will hamper the activity of palestinian this edition of the fulfillment of this Important Mission is to be encouraged. In october 94 also the treaty between israel and jordan, reaffirmed the status of jordan as the custodian for the holy place. So here we have three initiatives but also focus on jerusalem in granting the palestinians and israelis equal status in jerusalem, which was the roadmap, the clinton plan, and also the Arab Peace Initiative that were also the joint initiatives between palestinian israelis calling for the formation of a palestinian state and having jerusalem serve as the capital for both cities. The city of jerusalem has a special place in the consciousness of the great for centers it has been the right of center for the free world religion. Any lasting solution should take into consideration this religious and historic attachment of the three religions to this city. So here we have two clashing narratives, the palestinians consider these jerusalem as the capital of the perspective state of palestine, and israel maintains that is united as the eternal capital but without interNational Recognition. So basically what id like to focus on is the present status. And we have 350,000 palestinians of East Jerusalem who have residence rights in jerusalem. They carried a blue Identity Card and they can move from jerusalem to the west bank or even from jerusalem to israel without any problem. The whole behold israeli Identity Cards which gives them the right to work and move freely across the country. 145,000 palestinian residents live outside the jerusalem separation wall, a 195,000 live inside the separation wall. And more than 10,000 palestinians who live in jerusalem do hold israeli citizenship. However, here we want, it is important to note that the clashed in jerusalem between the palestinians, the israelis has focused also on the way things are. In a sense that the are a negative side to the israeli part in israel. A lot of palestinians benefit a lot from the israelis, particularly and health care, and palestinians have a much Better Health care in jerusalem as residents of jerusalem than they do in the west bank or in gaza, and even they take benefit a lot from health care, Israeli Health care system. However, the certain policies that either, which is one the utilization of the city in the last 10 years have accelerated a lot in which even names of streets have been changed and in part israelis support three languages, hebrew, english and arabic. But now that dennis is to put only hebrew and english. They have tried to strip ousted from the residents right. This is a very sous problem that often makes palestinians very insecure and thus because of this threat that any time that idea can be revoked. So we are Poor Public Services and palestine compared to, in East Jerusalem, compared to western jerusalem. There is a big gap between what we call west jerusalem and East Jerusalem. Although eastern jerusalem and palestinians comprise 32 of the citys total population. Now this percentage is decreasing. They pay a 30 of the citys budget yet they receive less than 5 of the municipal budget. Now because of a lot of pressure on the municipality, this has been improving that the municipality is paying more attention to East Jerusalem, and so jerusalem invest six times on jewish residents than palestinians residents and you can see the entrance of Public Services like parks, like children and clinics, like different facilities within the city. So the minnesota is in charge of the israeli schools where the students are being provided with a lot of facilities while actually the same palestinian schools are in very bad conditions. So when youre talking about the young kid who takes a knife and goes and commits terrorism, it is also in the education because they are receiving their that education. He hates going to school because there are no facilities at this is also part of the problem that we are having. Buildings are converted to schools, cramped school classes, the schoolyards on terror, not much sport facilities, no computers can lapse or libraries, no heating in winter, good lighting thats what having a lot of problems with students. This is why students hate to go to school. We have to make them love to come to school rather than be in the street. Thats also part of the problem. Also the whole demolition policy is affecting the psychology. Also there is a lot of despair. There is a lot of political statement and that frustration from social and economic neglect, which have resulted in explosions as we see what is happening today. Militant muslim extremists have exploited these deteriorating conditions to intensify detentions. So also here we have the problem that there is a lot of donations that arabs and others are meant to improve conditions of palestinians in jerusalem, yet the money disappears either with the p. A. Or the leaders of the religious leaders of the community. So the palestinians do not see much of those donations. So here if you want to see solutions we have twostate solution for jerusalem, issue. We need to filter out the symbolism, religious and overtones and nationalist rhetoric from the political reality. The political reality today is that israel rules the city but without International Sovereign entity sovereignty recognition. So this is where the erupted lies come and assess why should israel be able to actually share jerusalem . And what will israel do if it does want to share . It is interNational Recognition so that is part of what israel may benefit from a deal on jerusalem. If we look at jerusalem, we note that jerusalem was originally divided into two cities in the area. This is the oldest city which was divided into four quarters. The jewish quarter, and a vast areas have been annexed to jerusalem. So you see the old city, it is very small, it is more than 30 of the area has been added, annexed to the city. And so this is where if we look at jerusalem we see the whole city the holy city which refer to by religious holy books is in the old city. And the old city was surrounded by a wall built by the ottomans. So basically we have the city holy places and thats why this is the old city is the holy city. And so this is the old city. So basically only the old city and its immediate surroundings constitute the historical because jerusalem. Jerusalem that is being mentioned in the bible and different holy name, different holy books. But that municipal city that has been added, if you noticed, this has been added in a very erratic way. Like whats in order to include areas and then exclude populations which is a very odd way. The rest is not jerusalem. Wing you decide on the future of jerusalem you have to make that distinction between the old city and the municipal city. The city that has been enlarged. So reconciliation in midst of conflict as we need to agree on such issues as municipal services, daytoday living problems, status of holy places, and i agree to disagree on issues such as political sovereignty. So the proposed solution is to have the holy old city, to of a special International Jewish Christian Muslim custodianship, while the miserable city is assured local custodianship. East is for the arab jerusalem which is muslim and christian, and in the west as the jewish jerusalem, and then the city will be without barriers or restrictions. So basically israel would transfer its responsibility of the sewage, roads, schools, childcare, health and social services in East Jerusalem to the palestinians. But taxes collected from palestinians residents would be transferred to be used to improve the Living Conditions of palestinians in jerusalem neighborhoods. So basically if we have a look at that, whether it is a winlose situation the way it is now standing, or it is ethically divided, visual retain control of the entire city but this is unrecognized by international committee. However, it is a winwin situation if we would share the city, and then his way to have the city open to the world to come and pray and, particularly to the muslim, christian and jewish communities. And this way would be recognized by the international community. It will bring in security and stability. Thank you very much. Thats actually might take on this. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. [applause] ought not many questions. For the benefit of our Young Students here in the future leaders, its really reflects the complexity of the issue, and to approach the problem we have to look at the interdisciplinary approach of the way from the historical and sociological and religious and legal and strategic, political, so one is so forth. Let me ask you specifically if i may, i can to come back to the question of the internationalization of jerusalem. We try to deal with that to some extent before, but as i recall vividly, the u. N. Partition resolution in 1947 actually recommended that the status of jerusalem can be decided in about 10 years, whether the three religions would turn the city into national city. Tragically, thats the resolution, and other resolutions were over, by realities on the ground in terms of the conflict, for example, between israel and jordan, when jordan controlled in 1948 the east section of jerusalem. So what im really trying to say, obviously, i think your presentation provides opportunities. For example, the pope, when he visited several years ago and more recently in africa, for example, under some sort of African Republic when he tried to bring together the muslims and the christian, he had a message of the ecumenical approach. How do you think in your eggs. And again youre very distinguished family in jerusalem do you think the role of religion can be actually advancing some of the proposals that you made. That is why i am forfeiting one to less of the religious aspect of the political aspect. I am thinking in terms of the city to be done from the religious point of view. People want to come to pray whether they are muslims, christians or jewish or even nonchristian, nonmuslim are not jewish. The people might want to come visit there. I live this religious aspect within your city to the special custodianship. It could be a muslim christian, Jewish International special status. It can deal politically because no matter what we say, what we do, this is divided into and out of sector palestinians and the jerusalem which is the jewish sector. If you want to pick up the taxi from them and asked them to take you to the palestinian side, he will look at you and say, are you crazy . And so, the areas that are palestinians, the israelis do not feel secure to go. Palestinians do not feel secure in the past palestinians used to go to the malls. Now, nobody is going because they are afraid. So basically what i am saying is that we have to deal with that and we have one way is to have recognition of each other history or each others contracts are each others detachment. And this way to share the city. So i am not in favor of having jerusalem the capital or political. It can be religious capitals. If we cannot jerusalem be the religious capital of the palestinian jerusalem could be the religious capital of israel in this way we will be able to disassociate between the politics in the religion. There is an explosive mix. If we can separate them, trying to separate the politics, the political from the religious by thinking in terms of the city which is not holy, which has been annexed in the last five decades. Nobody prepares for that area. To define it politically between the two parties, the two people, the two communities, without wars, with a barbed wires come without check point, this is my vision for the future. [inaudible] it seems to me i will respond to those who claim that if, for example, you establish a muslim machine, you exclude the jewish connection, let say to the war and secondly, not only the muslim i think issue, but the christian issue because obviously the christian sites are very significant for the christian world. The church in fact, the reality is that we know within the church there is a separation between the catholic in terms of control of the church itself. So to the fans the idea of our religion can defuse some of this negative evidence and thereby i try to find some political solutions. Which would correspond to the reality on the ground. That is exactly my point. When i am singing that we have a special International Religious muslim, christian, jewish status quo, to increase the war so these are not included within what i am singing in jerusalem which is outside the ward. I am separating between inside the war, which are the holy places for all religions from that area which is the listed area outside the war. Muslims have more and all the places of christians or jewish because they are trained to also include the christian element. Here people look at your salon and they think this is a jewish muslim conflict. It is not because christians for more than all the places involved. That is why what i am saying we need to have the city of the three religions and outside to be divided in the entities outside the city, which does not include the holy places. The dialogue audience. My question to you as again i always try to look at a Common Ground between the different religions. What is really coming between christianity, islam and judaism. This says the sanctity of human life. The dems as if we save the entire world. We can reflect the individuals and the community is and somehow reduce the elements of fear that you are talking about and i agree with you whether it is the taxi driver lawyer to visit the mosque and so on. So my question to you from a religious point of view and approach, in other words the message of the pope, can we establish a truce of god, a truce of god meaning the older sites. In other words, islam and judaism will declare that we are not going to use that element as a friction and tension and conflict an explosion. In other words, it together religious leaders of the different communities to unite and two, the declaration of how we can protect the sites and exclude the reason youre talking about from the palestinian israeli conflict in general and so on and so forth. I think perhaps it can be a powerful message to the entire world how it can coexist with each other because this is the purpose of those who were created by god, whether they are muslims, christians, jews are members of any other religion. So in other words, not to leave the decision on the status of jerusalem, for example, only to the politicians and diplomats, but also to the social literates at the different religions. Actually, i believe that the three religions call for peace. I believe that judaism and islam are religions that he is coming religions of actually in the holy books. Now step aside from the propaganda in the media and the things where people say islam is a religion of aggression, islam is this. More than 50,000 violent incidents have taken place in the United States and in one year to 215. Yet three incidents are done by muslims. So islam is being blended as the religion of violence because of that. Now, let us separate between the religious theaters in the religions and what people do with the name of religion. I believe that religious leaders will call for peace in darfur peace and they will not stand in the way of having the cities be a custodianship of religious as the three religions. And the leave to the politicians and that is why im talking about places of worship or anyone can go win and worship freely, openly. Once we move on with this concept, it becomes like every day. It becomes normal. We have to normalize what is not normal today. We have to normalize peace. People now do not think much of peace and moderation. However, we are happy to take that again and make people believe in that. Once they do, they dont have to worry about it. They have to worry more about who takes out the trash, much more than the television and we have to defuse the issue by making peace. I dont believe the present situation has a situation which is observing a stethoscope could lead to this. That is why we are looking. What you are so concerned about today. What i am so looking for is tomorrow. I can see tomorrow a duration of peace were muslim, christian can lock in peace and harmony without having to fear the other. Now there are minorities within these communities which are radicalized and who are instilling piece and hate and fear in order to take control of the people because they are the minority. That is why we have to have the majority to wake up and be more vocal and active to prove themselves and stand up and i believe that it does not mean the religious leaders do that. The demand wants peace and just give them the opportunity and the storm which is radicalism that is being i believe we will move to a better future. I am optimistic. I look forward to the future were a muslim, christian and jews did not have to worry about a night or a bullet, but rather that they will live in peace and thats a feature of the city because we love this idea and would love to see more prosperous d. C. At the place where you could jews would like to comment prey at some of the mosques. They should be open for anyone who wants to calm. The idea that the politics is poisoning the environment. Once we remove the politics out of this context, we have a better future. Hopefully the religious leaders will Pay Attention to your message. Now we have a few minutes if you have any questions or comments again. Hi, ron taylor with George Washington University Senior fellow. So when i listen to the two of you talk right now, i hear professor yonah asking for more of a concrete step to achieve exactly what you just described. It is his proposal a to maybe get religious leaders for a muslim to my judaism, christian to make a statement of some kind. You seem to look forward into the future and go i see that, but i dont see it necessarily that the leaders make a statement. So i think i will ask yonah is questioned and a different way. Could you, because people are just ordinary, and we all need something to look at and give you an example of how to get to the future, how do we paint that picture for everyone of the muslim, the christian and the jewish walking into the old city where they get the point. What picture do a pain today that you want to convey about the future. We need to send the message that the three religions im not with each other. And the founder of the movement, and do not find a clash with the other on the contrary. It tells me that in order for me to be a good muslim i have to recognize the other judaism, christianity of the profits and that i should cooperate with the other and god would have wished he would have made all one nation or god would have wished he would have made all one religion or speak one language or be one people, but that was not deserved. We are different people, different religions so that we can meet and cooperate and live in peace together. So i think this is the message that these leaders should have rather than for some of them to antagonize or want to burn the holy book or the other and collaborate with each other. This great islam is not a threat to the other. The radicals in slums are threat as well as the others. But moderates in order to defeat the extremists than her than the three religions. Not only in one religion or the other. This way i can see the future. I can see where the religious leaders pass that message to their followers. And for them to make a statement is much more a statement mess on the ground. Is what they speak to their people in how we can collaborate with each other. In germany and which in this cause where we are going to have a muslim, a christian and jews column. If they want to Exchange Knowledge about their religion with the jedi and collaborate in the spirit of the future instead of having a synagogue, a church or a mosque, just have one where anyone can walk in and pray so there will be no separation of religions between the religious communities so that they could collaborate with each other and work with each other and understand each other and expect the right and the other to believe the way he believes and accept and tolerate that. That is their message. Thank you very much very excellent presentation. I was really struck your mention of the school situation. I have basically a nuts and bolts kind of question. We talked about lack of resources in East Jerusalem. Some people is that because they dont vote in municipal elections. There is also the talk in the past at least about a borough system. What can you see in the way of practical steps to improve the financial situation in and the infrastructure in jerusalem. Is there any real Political Leadership that can be a push for it . Have there been any efforts to get funding from the oilrich state and were d. C. At a go at what are the prospects of improving the infrastructure situation . Im not a believer in Economic Situation litigating terrorism but it seems to mean theres something good to do for those reasons. I am sorry that there isnt. Im sorry there is a lack of leadership on both sides which would actually try to bring the two communities together. Unfortunately so much money has been donated by the arab rich countries but it never arrived to a subject gives and there has been many. It has been donated to hospitals, to schools to build a better environment in jerusalem but unfortunately the channels through which the money has been donated never arrived. The train did not arrive to the station. However, i believe now that israel is in control of the city and municipality collects taxes from the palestinian residents of the city that there should be more pressure on the municipality to spend more on these facilities to improve them. One of the arguments also that the arab governments are arab donors do not want to do is to fund schools that are under the israeli municipality. They always refuse to do that. We have a bunch of students who go to extremely poor facilities. When you see the 13yearold cutting the night and thinking he wants to go to have been to kill someone. I blame the schools that i blame the environment of the new scores for some thing to think that way. It is education and yet you get education at home, but also you get a lot of that is school and we have to improve the education environment that we have to improve his quality of teachers because the teachers do not receive as much training, as much incentive as teachers on the other side. This is one way to do it. At the same time i believe we should encourage the Civil Society in jerusalem because there has been to clamp on the survey society. They give them more leverage to operate as long as jerusalem is under the rule and under the jurisdiction of israel. This way, empowering Civil Society and giving them funding, that will help a lot. And also people to people, empowering activities that will bring palestinians and East Jerusalem with the israelis together. So any joint projects do not field in order to make those people live together in peace and try to coexist together. [applause] the last word, great american. Certainly very difficult topic and i want to thank those of our speakers and thank all of you for being with us. The one thing that crossed my mind and listening to this and your ideas particularly, professor treated to about peace and everybody living together, most of the people around the world also want security. Security and control in somebody who sees that, who follows the laws and all that kind of thing. There needs to be a governmental type of approach that follows your ideas and guidance. Until we have that, we are going to be stymied a little bit. Who is going to enforce your ideas i agree with that. I mean, the people. That asserted a democratic type of thought process than on that thing and it took us a couple hundred years before the declaration of independence to get the ideas straight so its going to take a long time. Thank you all very much. All of you have a happy Holiday Season and a prosperous new year. [applause]