Transcripts For CSPAN2 Discussion Focuses On School Finance 20170214

Opportunity to moderate and important conversation that impacts everyone and that is School Finance. Talk about the lot and the opportunity and the role ahead. I spoke with four attorneys today each person will have an opportunity to speak 10 minutes and then a moderated conversation then we will open to the audience. Let me put into context why this is important. The Supreme Court made an important ruling on finance and since then we have had a number of cases that the state level to make sure those set an underperforming schools and also money to pay for it. Does money matter . I want to say yes does matter what and and to spend millions of dollars of education so we will figure out what this means with new questions of the role of the federal government sold the first person to have an opportunity to talk about this subject is professor of law and has practiced in of private sector and a graduate of Harvard Law School and has gotten a lot of publicity we will invite the professor to the podium then go from there. Good morning. I am excited to your talk about in part to these are the issues that Shape Foundation so what i will focus on today is what we can and should do about them. So the foundation of the opportunity the way teachers are paid and curriculum is provided and somehow we have got into a place to get a worldclass education and want to talk about how the law has contributed to that and 80 is the shifting our understanding within education so one of the things the Equity Commission found is the Bipartisan Commission and one of the things that it said with the broken system of funding but why is a broken bricks the coz schools are funded in part with propertytax is and that in bed certain inequality because of disparate Property Values but even at a high rate you will yield a fairly small amount so that this just one of the challenges with education funding. That is one that is well known that is criticized by state funding formulas down to create particularly for lowincome children beyond the fact to build in that any quality. So with that illustration is how that is distributed m line of poverty. So what that tells us is low income children need 40 percent more resources to stay on a level Playing Field of the middle income appears. This number has been confirmed in the number of grants the did does. So in light of this so to those districts of high poverty. What we know from research that lowincome childrelow income chd districts need additional funding to address that. One of the things that litigation for more than four decades has revealed is the funding isnt tailored to achieve the goals of the educator system. What does that mean . In the political bargaining where you have the amount allocated for education, lawmakers. The challenge with that, we have a system in every state set aside whether it is the common core standard but the funding formula isnt tied to how much it costs to get all children to succeed on their standard. So that of course shows children do not have the resources they need to patch mark the benchmark in the state standards so that is another challenge with them. So even if you have a progressive state that of course wont provide adequate resources for the standard. That means we dont have enough oversight in the system to make sure the money that we are putting in is being spent efficiently and that is important as well. Its not always going to be additional money for lowincome children bulow incomechildren be money wisely to get votes we need. So theres a number of weaknesses but the question is how in one of the causes mentioned, they had an independent cas case was decides decided in 1973 by the United States Supreme Court in texas a mexicanamerican families of the funding that we received in the district violates the United States constitution and particularly the equal protection clause. And the ride is being violated in the poor opportunities. The Supreme Court rejected that argument and said they do not guarantethat they donot guarantf education and instead this was an issue that should be left to the states and its an important value in education and we must allow the states to work on this issue even the Supreme Court said he does acknowledge that there is inequality and we are sort of encouraging them to work on it but we dont know if we address the questions as referenced which is the matter for education. Who should answer that question and they said we are not the ones to answer. The courts also acknowledged the federalism was as play. Not once was there a federal takeover in state funding system to say we will not upset the federal state balance. Certainly theres been some progress. Many are more equitable today than they were when the litigation was brought. However when you also see there is a lack of accountability for the equitable funding that says we need to address how much they need so they get it and because of that, we have no way to make sure the states within the same directiolived in thesame directe equitable funding. So what i argue he wrote a book about the rodriguez case and said what happened when you closed the federal courthouse doors for the funding. What happened is the state courts have not been an effective mechanism for making sure they get the resources they need to achieve and so its talking about what can we do about that animation and there are multiple Solutions Like included. Some are state and local, some are federal but im going to talk about one of them in the time i have left. What i need to focus on that is important in washington is we need to think about reshaping the understanding of the education and federalism. What does that mean, we have a view in the American Society at the state and local control is one of the paramount values. Unfortunately, we sacrificed generations at the state and local control so that is far more important than the children getting a greater education and we need to make sure that we have some partnership between the federal government and the state and local government to make sure kids are getting what they need coming and we need to draw on the strength of the state and local government also need not be afraid of the strength of the federal government whether that be additional funding, technical assistance. The federal government has resources if we werent so afraid of having them have greater involvement with education in the way ways that l allow the states to serve as a mechanism for innovation and experimentation. So i think we need to challenge the federalism. They are not so afraid of having the federal government involved in the education so with that i will yield. The next speaker is david with the Development Research association. For all students in a previous life he was most recently involved in the case in texas which we will discuss today. I want to commute to the podium. [applause] thank you, gerard and everyone here for allowing the opportunity to come all the way from texas and if you dont think it is, just go down to texas. Im going to start out with something people always seem to say and a chance about and that is that education is a great equalizer. People can look at High School San Antonio texas with the Poorest School Districts in the state. Do not build exceptions and while i am an exception, im not exceptional. There is nothing special about why i did this and how and why my sister was pregnant at 16yearsold trying to graduate from an Independent School district as well. The reason i say that is a notion of the equalizer is such a farce when you look at how unequally the schools were funded. They showed for the most part the states across the country dont have fair equitable funding systems. Im not here to say that funding is the sole solution or the only solution. Of course not. We need highquality teachers and those that can reach and teach students and we need a system that allows the competition that we talk about in rhetoric. Theres others when they are provided inadequately prepared schoolteachers and when the statstates and federal governmet pushed these temporary faculty agencies to try to provide relief for a couple of years before they leave and when you divorce the system from the resource policy. It started in 1973. He testified as an expert and a superintendent and new with the problems within the policy that it was impacting the classrooms. So trying to say students should be able to achieve their full potential, guess thats great. Trying to say they need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps when some kids dont want to wear boots come in depth something that is affecting and impacting children all across america. Its not the only structure that talks about the different communities and i would encourage you to look at bat and show the framework of how you can create the construct in the framework is a fairly funded School System and when you look at the system in the way the policies are created across the country, they divorce the policymaking from the research base. They know the Research Says highquality pre k. Can make a big difference especially in the communities of underserved children. About 25 kids in a classroom, but the only people that will see the class size doesnt matter or people whove never taught in the classroom. 22, 25, 27 kids in the classroom, you know, that doesnt really matter. Ask that schoolteacher because it isnt just about the performance of the standardized test that is administered and how they are engaged in with their life will come by now. But its about other attributes and how those teachers are able to connect with students beyond the standardized test. I want to give you a little sample of what happened in tex texas. This rarely on the property taxes. We have 1,022 School Districts and if we divide them up you look at the wealthiest versus the poor and that is a Million Dollar gap so the state says we will fund the basic allotment at this level and then we have gold in pennies and copper pennies because they are all created at the political than. So the states job is to try to equalize but it doesnt do a good job because it still leaves a thousand dollar gap between the district and when you look at the demographics, over 90 are in the wealthiest districts in texas. And i want to give you an example. A plaintiff in the School Finance case she lived in pasadena texas which is about a third down. It is in the eighth or ninth highest. Sso if a student that was graduating from high school and a child just entering the pre k. System, shes all that night and day difference going from pasadena to go to the community of the schools. She saw the extended programs and a lot of enrichment activities and Extracurricular Activities and then when the market crashed in houston as it did she ended up getting a divorce and moved into a one use trailer back in pasadena where she had to have her kids take paper to school if they wanted paper where they wanted copies where they could take textbooks home and they had to pay for remediation. All the advantages that were in the higher World Community that were absent. So money doesnt make all the difference is, but it sure does make a big difference especially when it comes to the families. When you have children in the high golf communities in the schools, they are the same standards as the kids in the valley in texas. We dont want them held to a lesser standard of the path need tpuppy dothink is that all studs should have that opportunity, that real meaningful opportunity that is substantially impacted by the resources they get. So the federal government, and i agree wholeheartedly they have an opportunity to try to impact these unequal state funding systems. Im not saying they should be intrusive that they can help to give impact by putting the carrot on a stick like they did in the title i funding. You will have to do these certain things. Why cant they provide fair and equitable finance policy . We have one that speaks of the resource equity and if it is supposed to be looked at for schools that are being intervened because they are not meeting the state standards. But what about the system altogether . Rather than wait until they are intervened back on the back end. Sbackend. So when they must encourage the states to change the paradigm and get away from the whole marketbased reform that weve heard about i know it might not be very popular here to say that, but the marketbased reform has not led to improved Educational Opportunity or improved learning opportunities. It has led to improved learning from the private corporations and it has led to improved salaries to administrators. Its not the organizations having peace Charter Schools but its not glad to improved learning opportunities and we feel that the best way to strengthen Public Schools. Thank you. [applause] for those of you that are watching on cspan feel free to send me a question before we have an opportunity. For them it speaker at every field hes dedicated his career to constitutional law and civil rights and focus on School Finance. He recently worked in florida but had the opportunity to see not only from the school aspect but also from the aspect of what does this mean in the states is a graduate from the university and we are glad to have you here. Thank you. I was hoping for some applause. [applause] how do we improve schools without the litigation. As mentioned, i finished a lengthy litigation in florida and i want to talk about what florida has done to improve schools in an extraordinary way, 2. 7 Million Students about half of the students are minorities, 55 are free or reduced lunch students. Its a very diverse state and we can learn a great deal as i have over the last year with the state. In 1998 the voters in florida approved an amendment to the constitution but provided that students were entitled to a highquality education and the students debate states will make a provision to that. In response to the amendment, the governor jeb bush, Lieutenant Governor introduced a series of reforms called the plan for education. We are going to report to the public how all students were doing disaggregated. We will grade the schools everyone understands what that means. They are not successful so if you are in a Failing School can leave the school to go to a better Public School to get a voucher to go to a private school that was struck down by the Supreme Court part of it. Its led to remarkable improvement. The good thing they focused on is it isnt really rocket science. The children have to demonstrate they are reading a certain level to go on to grade four. Of the placement courses and the International Baccalaureate courses not just for the kids in the house is a nice areas of san antonio about all of the communities in florida including the poverty areas in the panhandle in urban centers in miami and many of the other places in florida. They disaggregated that which i will show in the next slide that is well below 50 and this was under a pretty minimal set of graduation requirements. Its not for the state wanted tt to be still of course. Its due back to 1998 into performance results. What about the achievement gaps we have an achievement gap throughout the country back in 98. The gap between white and hispanic was between white and black about 20 points. Itits been extended to the substantially narrowed by the 20 years with the 15 years that are displayed here with of course more work to be done. 98, again before the amendment florida was in the bottom. By 2015, florida is in the top ten. The next slide came from one of our experts in the case. Whats interesting about this slide is it talks about the fundamental question of the role of money in the state performance how to spen held wey in Public Schools today which is the best indicator of how we will spend it in the future so when we talk about Money Matters of course it matters we have to have buildings and textbooks but the question is judicially enforced and acquired money, does it matter. Take a look at where florida stands on the chart. The axis is increased dollars per student in schools in real dollars. This is from 1990 to 2009. So we see great variation across the country in the increased expenditure per student during this period of real term so we will talk of new york in a minute, wyoming, those states had very extensive judicial involvement and intervention which drove more money into the schools. Then we have florida where there has not been judicial intervention, very modest increases in real terms not much of anything in terms of spending. But in terms of the performance and improvement in test scores and children improving their skills, florida is among the top state in the nation for improvements so this chart to my mind is one of the elements of the Public Policy debate which is what is the most effective way, how do we improve schools for children. One of the things we talk about thats important to emphasize is what role can courts have and i would submit to you they are effective at doing things that are simple like you should spend more money. They are also the good doing things that held we make them better for children and when we talk about politics driving this, i call it the democratic process where people debate ideas and study them and have trial and error. That is what florida has done remarkably consistent Public Policy in their schools in 20 years. The bottom part of the chart talks about 1992, 2002, 2013 and 50 other charts in 92 florida was behind where new york state was. By 2002 that are still behind but by 2013, new york is now behind in florida i should say is ahead in florida improved. If they are remarkably similar states both around 55 minority composition very similar about 50 , very similar states and dc in terms of dollars for a consistent with the earlier chart is very modest increase in terms of spending. And theres the court case that began to drive billions of additional dollars as a result of the court order. So the premise is that it developed the democratic process and can be and is more effective than the judicially enforced solution because there is no buyin so how does the money gets spent, teacher salary increases coming to get people the same increase that were in the workforce previously. The thing is i will say one of the people was an Expert Witness and i would study that carefully because theres a lot of problems with it but i will tell you one thing in florida at least i can speak to the schools that have the poorest students over 90 of the students that are on a free an free and reduch thats the far righthand side of the spend 20 more per student than those with the least amount of kids in poverty theres the state, local and federal but if we had the chart on state and local, 20 more in the schools with high numbers id reduced lunch kids so i bring these from the Sunshine State and i think its a great state to look at in the Public Policy success without judicial intervention. [applause] the fourth and last speaker is jim kelly, an attorney in Atlanta Georgia whos been involved in the School Finance and find two different ways. He is also a believer in education opportunity and a believer that schools matter but theres also a role he believes to look at finance in Public Schools and across the board. Somso she will come and speak ts at the university of georgia. We will look at the schools and see a few other places along the way. With that i will join him on stage for conversation. Thank you to the American Enterprise institute for inviting me to participate. It is a pleasure and an honor to be with you today. Before i begin permit me to make it clea clear the views i expres today are my personal ones and do not represent the positions of the Federalist Society for Public Policy studies. To start i would commend my fellow panelists for the longstanding dedication to the cause of equal access to the excellent education for all children. The writings are generating important discussions at this one today about the nature and funding of the k12 education in america and the proper role of the state and federal governments in promoting equal access to education. In a recent book chapter, kimberly defines equal access to an education as the opportunity for all students to attend a High Poverty School that enables them to pursue their goals to become engaged citizens and to develop their abilities to cope potential. In essence a sense, the definits the right as a fundamental one othat the Supreme Court rejected in the rodriguez case the constitution not recognizing it as a fundamental right. Yet the vision of equal access to the excellent education extends beyond the fundamental right of education and in her view recognizes that Educational Opportunities should be tailored to meet the individual needs of students that may vary dramatically depending on a variety of factors including Family Structure and stability, Student Health and nutrition and neighborhood climate. Under this view come equal access includes not only the fundamental right to education but the fundamental right to work, fair wages, food, housing, physical and Mental Health and a clean and safe environment for the significant extent it is the assertion by the education reform leader that education reform must be considered as part of a larger struggle for social justice. And doctor fullers opinion come equal access to education must transcend the schoolhouse having the law, policies and practices that address issues that interfere in the education process such as childhood hunger, abuse and neglect, and those for the families of students and pleasing brutality against young black man and move the empowerment in the movement. No doubt the social justice approach to the education reform will be the subject of future dialogue, debate and legislative and legal battles. The social justice approach will also impact the call for restructuring and strengthening the federal role in education in a manner that would require shifting power away from the state and local governments and towards the federal government. On its own the proposed constructiobut proposedconstrucn federalism is fraught with constitutional policy and financial challenges. However, when the scope of the federalism expands to the realization of many economic and social rights that are essential to achieve the social Justice Committee implications for just, the implications for democracy, the rule of government and the National Budgets are complex and farreaching. While its important to consider the practical aspects and costs of the social justice education reform agenda, it will be important to do so in a manner that respects necrotic evoluti evolution. Its marked by the articulation of the philosophical views about the idea of the social order such as social justic justice tt overtime is embraced by political leaders, government officials and the general public. As the philosophical ideas are debated among the citizens in private and ultimately in the political process, they called us into the identifiable value systems and because they believed the human person and society, theyve become known as humanist. Ultimately, the courts are called upon to determine the propriety or the limits of each humanist value system. They are established in the framework for the further social evolution. The social justice education reform agenda must not shortcircuit the democratic evolution that has been at the heart of the american experiment. As the result of federalism and the promotion and protection of the civil and Political Rights, democratic evolution has resulted in the following phases of the education related means or catchphrases. First, the idea that there is one god responsible for they debate could be any legal rights and duties into the controlling education meme is moral education. The social worker is rooted in for the love of country and values that encourage the sacrifice on behalf of the common good. The controlling education beans are the melting pot. Social humanism that is based on the idea that improvement in the lives of the lowest class of citizens depends on the educational training and work of that deplete intellectual Creative Class of individuals. The education meme is the whole child. It depends on the evidencebased principles for the problems of Human Development and social life. The controlling education is no child left behind and every Student Succeeds. Its based on the idea that technology can be used to overcome the biological limitations of man and improve the human condition controlling the education meme is the educational enhancement. Secular is based on the idea that the religious beliefs and practices cannot be used as the basis of morality and decisionmaking in the public square. The controlling education meme is the separation of church and state. Ethical is based on the idea that it requires a moral and ethical value system upon which they can rely to break the justice and peace to the world. Positive Human Development can only be achieved in the exercise of civil and Political Rights controlling the education meme is for the democratic citizenship and human rights education. They have the right to be fair the concept of existence of meaning of the universe and mystery of human life into the controllinand thecontrolling eds the right to privacy. It is based on the idea that the human persons consist of both supernatural and the temporal elements and any person stages and in terkel part of the aspects of his or her daily life and the controlling education meme is education for freedom. Political humanism is based on the idea that elected officials should exercise the power and Regulatory Authority to achieve equal access to Human Security and if necessary wealth redistribution. Finally, creative humanism that is based on the idea that the practice of the Christian Faith and values have a positive restorative impact on democratic societies. Each is in the shortcoming of the period and innocence each system represented an effort to create the ideal of the social order and thereby promote the happiness of citizens. In the rodriguez case the Supreme Court recognized that absent the right to education contained in the constitution legislators who are accountable to the constituents are responsible for addressing the nature and extent of the right to education not elected judges and they also chose not to refer to the International Covenant on economic social and cultural rights as a National Basis for recognizing a right to education. The Court Decision rodriguez respected federalism, the separation of powers, democratic evolution, National Sovereignty and the rule of law. Thank you very much. [applause] for speakers, same topic. We want to open up for david and you can weigh in if you like. Dimensioned language about money and a few other things. Things. What recommendations would you give for others to think about . Every Student Succeeds act like with much legislation does give and take. There are some potential advances definitely that seem to steer away from a highly prescriptive interventions to find him no child left behind. So the power will be returned to the state. The problem is some states might end up continuing that and so, what exactly the state are going to do, how are the states coming to analyze the resource equity for the schools under intervention if you have a School District that is subject to intervention, looking at the various factors they have to look at resource equity what does that mean i think that they have provided some guidance on that one. Is going to disappear now under the new administration we dont know. I do think that in terms of the School Finance and funding opportunities, there are not any real advances that can be realized in the states i think i will stilthere will still be ane with respect to accountability. Some of the ratings are being engaged in florida in the grading system there were some of the National Level that wanted the ratings system and others said wait a second we can still have improvement p. Required into categories like that but will still hopefully focus on supporting schools with Educational Opportunities rather than punishing schools in spite of the inequalities and opportunities. So, we will see where that goes. It could go different ways now. What do you think of all of this and how does it relate to florida and other states . I am a skeptic of anyone that says the federal government can bring improvement generally in the policy matters that something as important as schools this is a local list of things we have in our lives and even as a formal counsel to the district so even in the School District we dont want a Central Office telling us what to do so it gets a bit sordid connotation but when you think about your own children and you think about your own school, you get it you care about not only your own school but the kids classrooms. Im very skeptical that the federal level anything that is going to come of it. The every Student Succeeds act has moved towards less accountability in my judgment and that is what the adults in the system want. It changes every two years, so the approach changes, the policy changes and we see that federally. This too shall pass, for the people in the field get through it, this will change and eventually backed away from high levels of accountability and thats where i see this going. Thats where the reform happens and they get better or they dont. In your presentation youve also talked about the local government and state in the federal partnership how would this work out the its meeting aits meeting of thl government classroom. I think that there is some truth to that in the mechanisms for no child left behind. What is interesting is in this we noticed they kept the provision that says you must make sure you have a plan to turn around schools and you might think if they want to get rid of accountability why didnt they simply return the control . They neglect the performance of the least among us. So the low income communities that lack the power of the state level to lobby for the change they need in the School Reform were some tinkering at the margins of for example, we talked about florida getting 20 more to some of the lowest income districts it shows they compete at the same level and you need to be giving them 40 more. So the challenge on that model Going Forward is even when you give them a little bit more, unfortunately the challenge of poverty concentrated poverty are so sensitive that its a its a substantial increase that you need. The question whether the Money Matters is often debated and was one of the main proponents. So they put out a study that found that 10 increase in funding for all 12 years is in the National Database for one example. It was commendable and they spend their money wisely and keep track of where it goes. You have a substantial decrease in the adult poverty. Its spent well and that is too close the achievement gap so now it isnt just about money but its about effective afterschool programs into those things but it also costs money. Money is one of those things but its not the only answer. The states are not doing a good job of making sure that they get the funding they need to have an excellent education. In the context of what education means, the conversation there are things you can do in the Education Sector thats public but you also do the supported work outside of the traditional schools. We should also focus on serving the students could have done a great job. Is there a role for the Public Sector to help for the issue of funding an opportunity . Ive been blessed to be part of the Tax Credit Scholarship Program in the state of georgia back in 2008 and it is providing parents with a choice in education. When i talk about the different viewpoints is important for all of us to avoid the things we throw out there in the public square. I just dont believe that. There is a role between the states courthouses so i would never say we can throw too much of the Public Schools. They are the nonprofits. Ithat is a sentiment towards the best thing and the best interest so if we could avoid hurting peoples different groups in the silos lets all have our own idea to pursue that right education then we would be better off. You can talk to us about why you decided to write about this. Weve gotten complacent and accepting the system. I want to focus on what we can do about that. Either state or federal reform and addressing these issues but i wanted them to think deeply about how this is moving forwa forward. The chapter i wrote was on the rodriguez case but for som weref the challenges back then when the case got started with the protests from the students that walked out of their schools because they wanted access to the more rigorous schools and certified teachers. The policymakers were not doing their job or abiding by their own constitutional mandate as opposed to the u. S. Constitution they took it to the court in the 1980s. The districts have people talk about how much does the money matter and whether they will share the sources. They probably wouldnt want to share the resources. There isnt anything about the uncompetitive era that we had 50 or 60 years ago. The people in the districts have a constitutional right to equal funding. They have overtime kind of watered down the standard. If we are taxing the learnings then we should get similar revenue for the tax effort, very fair standard. We got 95 of the kids in the system so thats fair what about the other 5 . They went back and forth and cut it down to the 600dollar gap between the property and said thats enough and you talk to the School Districts and say how much can you buy with 600 more with a school size of a thousand and it goes on and on and it is easy to see how much that makes a difference but the point is the courts were the ones that held the legislatures feet to the fire. They didnt ultimately lead us to the court but the avenue was still available. It was three and a half months long and they got to put up the signs. They were in the texas case ranked 10 or Something Like that using the data. But at the end of the day we had a substantial record showing the Educational Opportunities. What are the differences between the School Districts they basically said they come with these disadvantages, very defensive oriented. We are not here to set policy. But we are not sure how much Money Matters even though you showed an incredible record of how much it does matter. At the end of the day they said too bad so they lowered the constitutional or into the basement. So now it is a democracy that we have. Its not as it was in 1960 or not as it was in 1989 but its still highly inequitable between the wealthiest and the poor. Is one of the leading authorities on this. 70 to 80 of the schools with teacher pay and benefits we also know that because of the teachers organizations that the schedule is driven by two major things, the advanced degree and years of experience those of which have not been shown to be good indicators of the teachers effectiveness but that is how the structure is done so when we talk about spending money wisely and i think everyone is in agreement that it takes money, weve got to address some of these obstacles that exist in spending money wisely for the teachers thinking about benefits and about opening up the profession in ways where we dont have just one model but recognize that kids that come out of college like in teach for america can be very effective teachers. My daughter is studying to be a teacher and im amazed how much it takes to control the various ways. She is a good student and people that are not strong in math and science are not encouraged to go down that track so we have to think about how the money gets spent. They completed their review of the grant from a 3 billiondollar program under the Obama Administration and it showed no effect. Here we are in 2017 and we know that more is going to produce better results. It just doesnt happen again when we get the large infusions of money in the Grant Program or any other, new york, examples, they dont get better and states that dont go down that track dont improve so i raise the question when we are in the real world and see what happens, whats going on is not flowing money into the issue. There is one piece of School Funding information that i am aware of and that is in georgia the state spends about 4100, 4200 to educate a child in the public School Systems. They are asking for one of the scholarships so they can send their child to the school of their choice and we dont tell them you have to wait for the litigation to be settled or joined the Supreme Court taking up how much you are entitled to ithat you get into Public Schools. They basically decided the amount for the education is 4,600 for as much as people like to fight about the true cost savings, i think the evidence is coming in pretty hard and fast that we are saving the state money so i like to keep the option open of the appropriate level of funding but for those parents like the kind of lady and her children in texas who decide enough is enough i cant wait for this to result in the policymakers and courts of law. If some people get their way than what i do want to mention is in is the schools choice. And the Southern Education foundation with the opportunities scholarship and it shows those funds are going to families that is basically helping to subsidize those higher well families. And Vice President pence who favor of legislation of voters across the stay and families are taking a vantage of it. Also went to mention that polling takes away from the zero local efforts to build and strengthen their own Public Schools. Antidote to a private school to educate the same population but then all of a sudden we need to shift this conversation for people to have a choice if they go to their local neighborhoods school with baby provided with the resources . That the end of the day that is so we want to focus policymakers attention we went from 200 million with a Charter Schools from with 2,000,010 years later. Charter schools in texas have much higher percentage of schools in texas just look at the ratings compared to traditional School Districts and they tend to segregate more. So how can we even discuss this issue to put 20 billion into the unproven system to speak as they are not performing the way we we think they should . In his little beyond me. Palisades and florida we have a Tax Credit Program and has been studied extensively tillich added every year and those that participate are loaded, and children who were doing as well or better than those of the socioeconomic status. Do i fainted is worth experimenting of the National Performance levels . Yes. I like to think of myself as a Glass Half Full type of guy but when i m in these types of discussions i am ready to convey you are right when need to take douglas will get the proper level of funding. You really dont know what kind of schools to pick they are discriminatory or malfunctioning so dont give them a choice. Maybe we should fill the glass half way in figure out which way we can deliver education to parents there is a right to education that exist on the part of the child. So in the best interest of the child we could approach that with different perspectives and policy and ankles. And there could be a fallacy or an error reoffered six or seven amendments. So i look forward to more School Choice in america. Is seen this domestically and internationally. I am from npr. There will try to squeeze into questions i spent some time in kentucky recently it is supposed to be an example of how well it could be done. And what they could tell us. So adequacies says we need to make sure all children are provided the opportunity to have that quantity of education would disparities between children into equitably. In what some scholars have called to focus and that was the next step met with mixed success. In with perfectly equal funding doesnt mean perfectly equal opportunities such to be that imperfect model with that equitable opportunities. And to have met success in did is seen as a way that all children are educated but none will let others talk about kentucky but part of what happens once these cases are won is as politics ships and focus shifts away and then lets wait to see what happens. In those that wanted to be advanced. And that funding formula and other things then everybody says abandon the project. And then addressing how the money is spent. And to recruit teachers from new revenues and then you might see improvement and then to sese we added more money. The ruling standard and then to put out what would be a judicial manageable standard whether or not there is adequate funding. And then to think if it was very specific. And of the indicators seven adequacy. And that is those definitions that the professor gave of inadequacy and equity of the difference there were a number of cases. We heard a lot today about equitable finances that the state level with the importance of those to have entirely equitable stay plans but if that is not carried through to the district level and to encourage the states to have those formulas that might not work i wonder if the panel has seized those opportunities with the pilot program. That is incredibly important piece on what is implemented at the local level and a dose disparities with whos controlling is the power at the local level. And that the state level. And now not in the best interest of the whole. That is up perfect example. If you are in east austin you of a different education than west austin. If you do look at this area that does seem to impact student performance that has been shown to impact Student Learning and outcome in several studies but on the side of those certified teachers and has less access when they local fundraisers and then go to the wealthy schools in the School District cannot saying will i would say. Is a really big problem it is several districts with the continuing struggle. But that what can be addressed in then happens to intervene. And then there is a depressant of districts and they will not make this system and perform reform. We have a colleague back here. This is for the panel would is one thing that you recommend to improve . Do think opening up alternative ways into the profession to incentivize high performing students in math and science and we have to get away from the idea of the worst performing teacher gets paid the same amount as the best performing. Where else in American Society can you do that . Is a huge problem. If you find people who are really Good Students in the mouth and sciences thinking maybe i can go into education why should i be in the institution were i am not valued for my effectiveness . We need to have better ways how to get over this problem of onesizefitsall. Live the best and brightest dont go into education. I think it is very difficult those that are in need of much more research that is the effective teacher verses who is not we had a teacher testified that she was the teacher of the year. Put the next year did not get the of award but yet she did the same thing. People want to think we can apply this business model. So if we look at one way or one area that needs to be improved and is the cultural competency that with the changing demographics to have the Assistance Center with those various inequities of the achievement gaps and those expectations that they have coming from the temporary faculty agency with the university based Teacher Preparation Program often lack competency who will lie call on . Who will lie discipline . Who is acting up . Who does not have enough work . Cultural competency is incredible. Look at the federal government for the money for the state or local but with the administrative stop and then to the teachers so how did they get more money . Rather than teaching the students . Not the vegetation but with those issues. Thank you for your question. I love the lawyer jokes. [laughter] in but increase of public spending have translated to the administrative cost i think in that is starting to get a lot more attention and that would have some good answers and how do they put that back . I do agree but so where is it going . At the state level in the public is fully aware often in what is the basis to pay teachers . Is that available to us . We have one minute left. The assumption that i got and that is what you do and then they dont want people talking about that. And then to figure out and then looking at the homes were they come from. The real problem and is a problem with that statement they were viewing certain families and a great white save your with uh discussion to we should be recruiting to turn our attention away from the system microforms better needed. And overcoming everything so you might view immigrant communities but then you say oh my god i dont even let my kid walk down to the corner store to traverse a country those are incredible attributes you cannot Divorce School impact but it shows what needs to be addressed but funding is incredibly important. Thanks to jim and his contribution. And also the of role of choice and talking about a state through the demography of big School Systems and also for keeping on the forefront of poverty and opportunity and family and also to professor robinson for her work