Transcripts For CSPAN2 Discussion Focuses On President Trump And Conflicts Of Interest 20170224

Know the extent of his financial conflicts including significant debt held by foreign banks because he continues to hide his tax returns. This is a especially concerning in terms of the continuing ref havelations of his ties to russia. There is every reason to worry that foreign businesses and governments will have too much influence over trumps decisions and that trump will provide special favors and treatment to Business Partners. Already a month into his presidency, the trumps continue to promote their private business interest, going so far to have their products hawked from the White House Briefing room. We are honored to have congressman sarbanes join us at cap today because he distinguished himself as a leader on capitol hill in fighting for political reform and against big money in politics. In light of his leadership, the congressman was appointed to lead the House Democracy Reform Task force and leader pelosi called congressman sarbanes a relentless champion fighting for integg integrity and transparency americans want to from their elected officials. He has a comprehensive plan spear headed by the congressman to strength err our democracy. The task force is working to con front the Trump Administration conflicts and expose the special interests driving much of the current agenda on capitol hill. Congressman sarbanes has represented marylands Third District in the u. S. House of representatives for the past decade. Were proud to have congressman sarbanes working with us to bring lights to the threats to democratic norms. To discuss how we can fight back. Please joan me welcoming the congressman. [applause] good afternoon, everybody. It is, it is great to be here. I want to thank you, carmel, for your introduction. I want to thank cap, the center for American Progress for inviting me here today and hosting this very, very important discussion. Im not sure there is a more important discussion we could be having at this particular time. I want to thank you, carmel, for joining us recently at the deblock sy Reform Task Force Democracy Reform Task force and that cap is doing and releasing Important Information to this topic of conflicts of interest. I also want to thank liz kennedy for her great work and her continued support. Im looking forward to the discussion today from ambassador eisen and Robert Weissman and we have a terrific panel were looking forward to. Here is where im going to start this discussion. Donald trump told us, toil told us, the American People, that he would look out for us. That he was going to fight for us. That is what he said. A little over four weeks ago, seems like eons ago, four weeks ago i sat there on the west front of the capitol and i heard the president make a very important and central promise to the American People. Here is what he said. For too long a small group in our nations capitol has reaped the rewardeds of government while the people have borne the costs. Washington flourished but the people did not share in its wealth. Politicians prospered, but the jobs left and the factories closed. The establishment protected itself but not the citizens of our country. That all changes, he said starting right here and right now. Because today we are not merely transferring pow are from one administration to another, or from one party to another, we are transferring power from washington, d. C. , and back to you, the people. Thats what he said at his inauguration. Now i trust that most of you in this room when you heard that promise, and i think many americans, when you heard it, it rang hollow. You saw it for what it was, rhetoric that was designed to distract from what we now see are the president s real motives. You were right to be wary of that promise. President trump does not appear to be transferring power to the people. What he seems to be doing is pulling the power closer to himself, to his family, to his brand, to his business, and to his buddies. Hes broken from all precedent as carmel alluded to a moment ago, by entering office with a sprawling web of business assets and conflicts of interest. All too eager, it seems to subordinate the office of the presidency to the interests of the Trump Organization. He has flouted the constitution, by receiving numerous emoluments, both foreign and domestic, and will continue to do so should he not take meaningful steps to relinquish ownership of his many business assets. He has shown no inclination to do that. He has been unrepentant in repeatedly refusing to adhere to the basic norms of integrity, that have always governed our nations highest office. Even rebuffing the chorus of americans of all political stripes who are asking that he release his tax returns. A minimal expression of acknowledgement and appreciation of these basic standards. To make matters worse, the president has surrounded himself, pretty much through the cabinet appointment process at this time, with a cabinet full of senior officials who themselves appear to be rife with similar conflicts of interest. Taking a cue from the top, and theyre primed to capitalize on their newfound positions of power. These are the not actions of a man committed to giving power back to the people, or to lifting up the voice of the voiceless, the people left behind by a broken system in washington. But the reason i read the president s words at the outset from his inauguration is i wanted to ground the discussion here today to remind each of us, the assembled experts, the press, concerned citizens, that out in the country his promise to give power back to the powerless, and the disrespected, to give a voice to the voiceless, still has great resonance and appeal. And the truth is if people believe he is making good on that promise, then his ethical lapses and conflicts of interest will be viewed as tolerable. For those who seek to preserve our die mock sy and ethical laws and norms which under didder it. This is our challenge. Forging and understanding in the public that President Trumps contempt for basic standards of trust and integrity is not trivial. It is not a harmless sideshow. Rather it strikes at the core of his ability to serve the people. It harms their interests, the Public Interest. A lot of ink has been spilled and will probably continue to be spilled chronicling the president s breathtaking number of conflicts. Let me cite a few for the record. His 940 milliondollar loan from the bank of china. His unknown level of Foreign Investment from russian oligarchs. His pending trademark litigation in china. His Business Partnership with the newlynamed special envoy from the philippines, appointed by the brutal president , rodrigo dutert. His sons continued pursuit of business deals every day. There is another one, around the globe with the impramtue with the United States government being place on those ventures. Many business assets in turkey, United Arab Emirates and saudi arabia, elsewhere all of which have the potential to distort the president s official actions. The list goes on. Some americans, including my own constituents for sure, are very closely tracking this. I mean every news story that comes out that sheds light on the president s conflicts of interest, theyre watching this. Theyre deeply concerned about his cabinet officials. And the policy that he might pursue. But many and certainly it seems the vast majority of Republican Voters are not yet concerned by these conflicts. He may be a scoundrel some people might say, but he is our scoundrel. No surprise then that my colleagues in congress on the other side of the aisle have been unwilling to engage in meaningful oversight of the new administration. But heres the point we need to make. And i really want to emphasize this, President Trump is not just suffering from pettily lapses that will somehow will come out in the wash over time, his complete disregard for ethical norms and against constitutional corruption if unchecked will cause grave harm to our nation as a whole and to the situation of everyday americans. His conduct threatens to weaken our National Security, to corrode peoples faith in our institutions of democracy, and to advance special interests at the expense of the Public Interests. Put bluntly, the president is breaking his promise. He is aggrandizing power to himself, not transferring it back to the American People. That is why discussions like the one being held today are so important. We must begin to bring clarity to how President Trumps corruption affects how it harms the interests of the regular americans. Otherwise they will give him a pass, and are called to arms will be just an academic exercise. The white paper being released today by the center for American Progress, written by liz kennedy and danielle root lays bear the risk posed by trumps many conflicts of interest and those of his cabinet. It he details how those conflicts of interest are risks to National Security, to u. S. Foreign policy, to the integrity of u. S. Elections, to the free and fair operation of u. S. Economic markets and dedication to the Public Interest and rule of law. To reiterate, we must embrace analysis of the president s conduct. It makes clear his conflicts and those of his cabinet do in fact harm the Public Interest. This paper and i hope the discussion that follows today, will help make the turn in the public debate from an ever of expanding laundry list of jarring conflicts, to a more sober analysis of how those conflicts imperil the interests of american households and the broader Public Interests. This is critical and i applaud the center for American Progress for its work. I want to offer a sober reminder about the role of congressional oversight, picking up on my earlier comment. President trump has been president for a little over a month and its important to remember there are 47 month to go. So pace yourselves. Of the while Republican Leadership has been reluctant to engage in any meaningful oversight of the conflicts that i have discussed and well hear more about today, the politics of the not static. Americans are flooding town halls, and urging representatives at that take oversight of the administration. Congressman that ignore those calls do so at their own peril. The more the public focuses on the specific harm of trumps come flynn, the more that pressure will build. As the current chair of the House Democracy Reform Task force i can assure you House Democrats will be at the forefront in exposing the risks the President Trumps conflicts present. We are already pursuing remedies that can bring about the oversight that is demanded. Democrats this week in the House Judiciary Committee will vote on a resolution of inquiry from my colleague jerry nadler that would begin investigations into the Trump Administration es conflicts of interest and potential and improper ties to russia. Republicans are likely to block this effort but they will have to explain if they do. In the same vain, many of my colleagues, my colleagues offered legislation would require President Trump to release his taxes, therefore bioffering full picture of his finances and sources of conflicts. The tack force is making plans to go outside of the beltway, Holding Field hearings across the country on these issues and allowing americans of all political stripes to learn more about the risks that we face, the paper that you have released today will be very important to that effort. And finally, were working daily with our Standing Committees in the house and our partners in the senate to monitor emerging risks and to seek answers from the administration when appropriate. President trump promised at his inauguration to give power back to the powerless and to give a voice to the voiceless. Americans must insist he follow through on that promise and if he doesnt follow through, they have to hold him accountable. With reports like the one being released today we can empower americans to judge for themselves. In other words, lets give people the information. Let them draw the conclusion about whether the president is operating with divided loyalties. Whether he is looking out for the people or looking out for himself. I want to finish today by reading an excerpt from a book called, lincoln leadership by donald phillips, a couple paragraphs, i think can kind of drive home the point of this integrity. I will put my glasses on for this part. Moniker honest abe was resurrected for the president ial campaign in 1860. A major component of the Republican Campaign hype. It was plastered on Campaign Posters and appeared in cartoons and newspapers across the country. It was part of a National Crusade that painted lincoln as one of the common people. A railsplitter from illinois who was honest beyond question. It is remained in the american stream of consciousness to this day as the perhaps the most glorified part of the lincoln myth but as american fill loss officer William Hocking noted think are myths which displace truth and myths which give wings to truth. In this case abraham lincolns reputation for honesty and integrity even though challenged over the years, has remained unblemished. In fact, as knowledge is gained about the real man, it is largely enhanced. Myth in this case has become reality. Lincoln was just as hon as he has been purported to be if not more so. Without question honesty is one of the major qualities that made him a great leader. The architecture of leadership, all the theories and guidelines falls apart without honesty and integrity. It is the keystone that holds an organization together. Tom peters reported that the most aggressive and successful organizations were the ones that stressed integrity and trust. Without a doubt he stated honesty has always been the best policy. Managers do things right, leaders do the right thing. And james mcgreg gore burns warned, divorced from ethics leadership is reduced from management and politics to mere it being nokia. Thats good stuff. Technique. Looking at that, in our history im concerned there resides deep in the psyche of the American People an abiding of appreciation of integrity and honesty in their leaders. Depart from that on occasion and the people can forgive. Make it your operating procedure, to dissemble and deceive and the consequence can and should be severe. Americans need to ask very simply, whose side is the president on and can we trust him. Their answer to that question will decide his political fate. Thank you all very much. [applause] thank you so much to representative sarbanes for those really terrific remarks. I think beautifully explaining the extent of the situation were currently facing. And, well be focusing on the real consequences here today with this distinguished panel, all of whom are now here. But i think i really appreciate the grounding us in the real strength of americas democracy through the years is really a question of integrity. Im joined today, im liz kennedy, director of democracy in government reform here at the center for American Progress. Thank you so much all for joining us and im joined by rob been robert wise man, president of Public Citizen since 2009. They are a counter veiling force of public power. Executive Branch Agencies and court to insure all citizens are represented in the halls of power before working at Public Citizen weissman was director of corporate accountability at central action. Thank you for joining us here today. Norm eisen, founder and back as chair of the citizens for responsibility and ethics in washington crew be. Crew works to reduce the influence of money in politics and to foster a government ethical and accountable of the he is a fellow with government studies at brookings. Before that he served as the u. S. Ambassador to the Czech Republic under obama and under the Obama Administration and president obamas ethics czar where he established the Ethical Practices of that administration. So lots to share from norm. Really thrilled to be joined by my cap colleague, i think an important voice in these, in this question of the dangerous impacts of trumps conflicts, vick singh. Served as secretary of defense for Southeast Asia in the pentagon for 2011. I was special representative for afghanistan and pakistan at the u. S. Department of state. He also served in the u. S. Department of defense as Senior Advisor on afghanistan and pakistan and hello a number of roles in the department of defense over these many years. So, thank you all some for joining us. Lets just start by asking so, rob, after Kellyanne Conway stood in the White House Briefing room telling fox viewser to go buy ivankas merchandise, you said anyone harboring illusions separation between the Trump Administration and trump Family Business had their fantasies shattered. President trump and Trump Administration will use the government apparatus to advance the Family Business. 81 of americans we know worry that trump will allow his business interests to influence his Decision Making while in office. When trump priority tieses his own bottom line or privileges the interests of his Business Partners, what does that mean for americans . How do profiting off the presidency hurt American Families . Thanks, liz. Thanks for having me here. You know, i think thats the right question because it is not just what the rules are, in the sense of what the ethical standards are, even just sort of what common sense tells us should be done, all of which the president routinely transgressing. The most important thing why does it matter . I think, you know, norm has been in the job but i think the reason the ethical rules matter so much is theyre really anticorruption measures. Theyre designed previous fill lack i prophylactically to prevent corruption of policy making. We never had a president anything like donald trump in many regards but including as regards his Global Business empire. It would be one and a huge problem if wees constrained sort of one because he refuse toddy vice his holdings. His diverse interests affect as vast swath of policy making. Likely through the epa or executive order well see mechanism, there will be effort to roll back one of more substantial virtual rules of the Obama Administration, the clean water rule, wotus one of the main opponent of the wotu is the golf course industry. That is Donald Trumps industry. The overtime rules will become a source of contention. One of the main opponent of that is the hotel industry. Were going to have a huge fight over Corporate Tax reform. We dont actually know what President Trump owns but we know that he has made creative use of the tax laws and he bragged about it. So there is no way to have a tax policy debate that is divorced from his own personal interests. You go on and on without even getting to the Foreign Policy questions. His refusal to divest will have massive impact on policy making affecting americans and in ways i think will be very detrimental we see unfoal over the next four years as long as he is in office. Sobering, thank you, rob. I think 3 4, we know 3 4 of americans think trump should release his tax returns, as the practice of every candidate and president in the modern era. He continues to stonewall and hide them. Norm, what does it mean for basic democratic norms of public transparency and accountability that the president is so cavalierly refusing to tell americans what he owes who by releasing his tax returns . Liz, thanks for having me. Vikram, rob, congressman. Carmel, its a pleasure to be here with all of you. And when im on panels with norm ornstein and we get asked about basic democratic norms we like to joke that is us. [laughter]. The norms have been violated by this administrations conduct and the, i think that it is a crisis, not just of corruption, and not just of donald trump, enriching himself and his family and his associates as vikram and i will talk about a little bit, the harm to american Foreign Policy, the risk of war, that comes from this situation. But its also a crisis of the rule of law. And, that is, and, that is true in the big things. You how shocking for our constitutional norms that we have a president who on the first day, the first hour, the minute, that he lifted his hand off of the bible, he was in violation of the express and unambiguous constitutional prohibition on accepting gifts, presents, cash, or benefits, and this is quote, of any kind whatever. That is what the framers put in there in the constitution in the emoluments clause. We had this peculiar aboutface of the chinese, talking about this a lot in a part bipartisan way. For years the chinese denied donald trump valuable use of the trump name, trumpet trademark in china and suddenly he is approaching that threshold of 1600 pennsylvania avenue and they just registered the first of the change is a when students he also started out and has flipped to the traditional one china policy . So, these constitutional transgressions are enormously consequential. They have a real impact because when youre talking about china, the unknown trump Financial Connections to russia with russian interference in our democracy, p kill your trump says i do know business there, but his a sunset before he ran for office that russian money is very important crosssection of our assets and that we see a lot of russian cash coming in. Im paraphrasing. Which is it . We have the russia question. Then, all of the world you have this dictator who is a killer in the philippines and he sent his friend and trump friend and trump Business Partner here and by the way, china and the philippines, trump said he will defend american jobs, but china in the philippines is where american jobs have fled. I think its a profound problem and the small violations, we were active on Kellyanne Conways violation. I was on cnn this morning talking about another norman violated the white house chief of staff is not allowed to talk to the fbi about pending investigations and we now know that happened. Donald trump instead of saying obama the chief of staff would have been sent home if the senior staff decided he had a job. Here, Donald Trump Tweets we must crack down on the leakers and thats what he should do with kelly and im also so the norms are being violated. I think before we go to the International Consequences as well, staying and thinking about the domestic sphere and how well of the business relationships impact the integrity of our economy is something i want to talk about in terms of the growth of what some call crony populism. Trump has targeted specific american companies, personally gotten involved with corporate decisions. If trump is doing his own Business Partner and trend favors, how does that impact that integrity of the economy versus kind of, you know, increasing anti competitive behavior, but actually harms Small Business and americans and i dont know, rob, your thoughts on the economy as well. You know, i find myself like almost every day now struggling for new words. We need a new vocabulary because its never existed before to describe this stuff. You know, the code brothers have a decent vocabulary on cronyism capitalism. No one has ever imagined anything like this. The monologue oh story where on the one hand have jumped at the price to make over 200,000. Of the New York Times has sort of got access to the partial list of members of the club and were able to then talk to them and people are willing to talk about what they do with the president. In terms of this cronyism, lets spectacular about the story is the people there did not buy in yet. Know one possibly could have seen donald trump would be president and they are just there, but they are pretty well off people and includes another of the Koch Brothers among others and they described they do get to whisper in his ear and he solicits this. Its cronyism like the buds he hangs out with, what you think and by the way why dont you bid on the 20 billiondollar wall because i think the prices seem to be high. You know, the informality of it and in terms of the total sense of corruption. Again, sorry the norm all older standards are sort of completely gone and it does mean in ways that will be big and small, the nordstrom tweet and that will be much bigger as policy is made on behalf of who is the last guy who talked to the president and again, not just the golf course and the club. With his daily schedule and again everyone says it feels like its been 12 years, but its been a month. Constant meetings with ceos who are describing the policy which he then sort of parrots in some weird way except for extreme and thats how policymaking is done right now. We are worried about the regulatory face you had to steve bannon yesterday say destroy the regulatory state, but hes got his own pathway on that, but for trump its these guys from big industry and he likes the people who had titles ended the shiny medals to tell him what to do and this hangout thing is affecting the kind of policy we will see during the administration. I thought one of the really hitting home examples of that was on their recent action to revise the decode access pipeline and, of course, horrible images of the protesters with camps burned to the ground in the last few days and trump, of course, owns stock in the Company Building the pipeline as recently in 2016. So, while a Spokesman Says he has sold all of them i think without having a full understanding of the accents of trumps Financial Holdings and liabilities this is really striking me as what he ran against. Is traditional for president s although they are not required to do it to while update of their form 278 in may. We did in the Obama Administration and help the president prepare and he disclosed his taxes around the same time. Trump does not have to do that. We will see if he breaks that tradition as well and i went to make two addon points. One, in a new form of crony capitalism he actually brought his cronies into the administration as reported in formal advisors. As we have said previously the notion that carl i cant is anything other than a special Government Employee is hard to swallow. He has the title. Hes been involved in personnel decisions, reportedly picked that sbc head and has broad revelatory portfolio, every part of regulation. Directly hits his pocketbook, which he can then use to support trump and others in big ways and they issued a press release that they are bringing them on. Thats not on informal advisor. Its even worse than that because he has made his own sons and himself a crony. We need a new term for it. By hanging onto his businesses, all of these decisions cycle back and put his sons in charge and cycle back to his family members. We dont even know because we dont have his taxes we dont know when he was defending attacking nordstroms and defending his daughter. We dont even know if he was defending his own investment in her businesses as family often does. Its very important that because of the intensity of the wrongdoing that we maintain the intensity of the outrage as challenging as it is on a daily basis. Norm, you have done great work and you in looking at fighting broader issues of corruption in and of governments and more specifically in the world form of governance. Can you talk a bit about how these financial conflicts corrupt governments broadly and then what that means kind in terms of a danger really to ripple democracy end of the idea of liberal democracy and what is so special about a non corrupted democracy . A lot is special about a non corrupt democracy primarily they are consistently both more gala terrien and the people are far more prosper it. Corrupt democracies become less equal and are worse places to live, quite frankly. Most people want to live in a non corrupted democracy it turns out and russia is a great ball of a corrupted right now and so are places like afghanistan and a place a lot of places we have try to help over the years. We have tried to spend time helping countries breakout of corruption we are about to enter a cycle of corruption and we will see things that look familiar in this country to places we talk about like in asia where i have or den transitional democracy. Its quite frankly frightening and it should be. A functioning democracy depends more than almost anything on transparency. You have to know what your leaders are up to. That is why even countries in africa, countries in asia, one of the things they will do when they are trying to move past an era of crony governess am is they will enact Financial Disclosure laws. One of the first things you do. We have a situation whereby a book or by book the administration the United States of america is circumventing the norms and laws we have had for a long time on the books to make sure we have transparency in Financial Disclosure. Summer things trump likes to boast about being able to do, technically legally and some are things like norm railed about that he really is in violation of the constitution and all of them right now are kind of they are skating through on them, but without question whether legal or not they diminish the ability of the people to know whats going on. We cannot know if these motivated by profit or Public Interest in a given exchange with russia or china or any country he might zero a lot of money to or be depended on for revenue. We cannot know whether he is subject it to leverage or pressure by foreign power who hasnt been over him or one of his family members through their business ties to we cannot know how other countries will view america. Americas influence will be diminished and in a way he is making america normal. Thats exactly i wanted to ask you how do in your sphere, how do tribes financial conflicts of interest and appearance of corruption impact weight people perceive american democracy and therefore, how does that affect americas standing in power in the world . I think its safe to say that if this persists and the Trump Administration basically rewrites the rules that we really had i would say since the 70s and place to maximize the transparency and have ethics laws and all sorts of accountability, i think it will change basically everything about local government. That sounds extreme, but the United States has been one of the leading lights in terms of this is the way you have a functioning democracy that can sustain itself where the leaders are accountable to the people at large, not just to the voters and that the people have leaders who are serving them. They work for us. So, between if the United States and europe that have been able to lead the charge. If of the United States eight from the scene and that means the Worlds Largest economy is no longer playing by those exemplary rules i think that affects can be overstated on what that will do to the trajectory for norms around the world. You know, the United States, things like the open Government Partnership of the Obama Administration which got dozens and dozens of nations to sign onto specific steps they would take to up transparency governance. Those things fall apart if the us itself is not following those norms, so i think it pro tems dark days for everyone that wants to live in a democratic society. Welcome i several other questions on russia and the exact quote was from 2008 donald trump junior, russians make up a pretty disproportionate crosssection of a lot of our assets. We see a lot of money pouring in from russia. So, obviously actually, lets do that before i was going to say before this gets too bleak. I deftly want to talk about the course of legal action, but specifically for a moment with the just the newest daily outrage of the white house, you know, back channeling the fbi about the investigation of the white house, can you say bit about the significance of trumps unknown financial relationship or dead to russian russia and what we really need on that . There is nothing wrong with the Trump Organization having done business with all sorts of entities all around the world. The question is, which is true, i have nothing to do with russia and im no connections or a whole lot of money is flowing in from russia . One of those two things is true. The way to know it is transparency. Release the information. Let us judge for ourselves, the people to whom us the congressman said say you return the power to. Let us judge that. It is impossible to know and it may not matter for a wild, but we will never knowing any dealing with Vladimir Putin, we dont know if hes nice to him because of the business dealings or is he nice to Vladimir Putin because he thinks we should have a different relationship with russia, which may be a valid thing to want. We cant know or trust his motives and others will play him. Other countries will play him based on this. Well, maybe this is for the remedy section, but and we have to plug this talks about the remedies and there are remedies and i just want to sound slightly less oblique because it in the Silver Lining department i would have preferred not to be harvesting the Silver Linings. Theres been an extraordinary activation of the checks and balances that you talk about in the paper and i think we have seen an energy in our american democracy in the courts, in congress where the chairman will be considering the resolution to flush out just this information and i hope it will happen again when its considered tuesday. We have seen constituents appearing physically in there, the American People a. In districts at offices coming to the help and i hope that hearing room will be crowded with people of both parties concerned about this. People are tweeting and they are on social media and even the executive branch, trumps own executive branch is getting into the action with the oge doing a review calling the white house on the carpet as they can during the review of the Kellyanne Conway or oge speaking out about the president s own conflicts. We see a lot of activity and that gives me hope and i think the rest of the world is watching that and theres an advantage into the rest of the world. When i was ambassador, i would often talk about things that work in this and there are people in the room who came to these annual gatherings we would have or otherwise as i look around with several friends who were there in prague. I would say to the Central Europeans we would gather periodically and i would say, look, we are in this. At the United States is not perfect and neither are you. We can learn from each other and i think there is value in the rest of the world is seeing the popular and institutional in the state ag stepping for, that checks and balances coming into play and i believe no one knows whats at the end of the path, but i believe if we exercise the remedy in your paper and with the resolution tuesday, if people rise up around these kinds of things that are democracy may actually emerges stronger and our world leadership stronger, but its going to be a lot of work to get there. Glass half full and of course Public Citizen has been doing a lot to motivate folks to be participating. We have. I dont when to let norm get away with this uplifting story, so i went to at eight bleak know before we go to remedies because i think youre getting at things that were really [laughter] there was a piece you are getting at that i think we should highlight, which again there is international stories, but on the domestic side it to does flowthrough and starts with him, but closer the administration and we are going to have an ending the scandal over the next four years. Its not just about trump or the tweets because it follows from the leadership of the present anyway the white house is conducting its business. This fbi thing is astounding, but in the conflict of interest area the creation of these divided advisory committees, the reliance on people of self understood parties to set government policy with the department of educational privatization. We see them lining up for the passage of contracts on in the structure built. We see it on this regulatory thing with carl icahn, which is the most astounding of all abuses. You see it in the cabinet and it will flow down to people, you know, if you look at the cabinet and the criminal record in the wrongdoing record of the cabinet appointees in any past administration these people would have been thought inconceivable to be confirmed. He has they have either violated the law or their coming violated the law and now they have been forced through and they also will follow with massive payback to their their industries and all kinds of technically corrupted dealings and i think that is what we will see over the next four years, so does so start with the president and it will be pervasive. I think that is true and i do want to highlight a place where i think we will be able to see clearly whether the rule of law is being followed or whether, you know, kind of the pushing the bounds of the law as a private citizen, you know, my to do that is completely inappropriate in the sphere of Public Service when we look at the gsa review of trumps lease on the, you know, on the General Post Office building. Now, the Trump International hotel and the sites of so many of these constitutional violations and i think we talk about in the paper, chiefs has actually asked for information about this, so perhaps we will get a source of oversights from that side as well. Representative comings is reviewing issues there in the dsa says they are reviewing. I just want to say rob and i live in the same apartment building, so he lives in the glass half empty side of the building and i live in that class half a full aside. You werent meaning to say all members of the cabinet, just some members of the next. Many. I think we should say in fairness there is some very respected decent outstanding people in the administration and thats also the glass halffull, but the other thing i want to say may be a 10th. I think thats too severe. I think it was the first complaint intensely the first complaint filed against trump in the country because i had someone standing at the gsa watching the swearing in and as soon as his hand came off the bible we filed a complaint with the gsa about that lisa, so i agree with you, that is a very important or opportunity and a question of the rule of law. Tell us about that lease for a minute and tell us about the constitutional, you know, the accountability we will see. On the lease, again, this is in the positive side. I could not get out of bed in the morning if i didnt think that there were signs of hope in people in the cabinet who will stand up to trump when he has his worst impulses. Huge demands from americans. I will say optimism you can look at gsa, which has been totally craven, including by the way before because there is stuff they could of an should of done when obama was still in the white house. Certainly, in the post period or you could focus on gsa or focus on oge who has been unbelievably brave people didnt understand it. They did not understand his tweets, which actually i thought were very funny. He was in a gentle way trolling the president elect and now, we know that the reason he did that was because they were ignoring him, stiff arming him on his efforts to engage as i engaged president obama with a republican Mitch Mcconnell appointee, recommended by mitch by senator mcconnell to bush, wonderful man. We got a long great. Never had a problem. Even though he was, you know, a republican. Hes been very heroic and if you compare the failure of gsa with the heroism of og gsa, if you are watching it is not too late to show courage. We need you to act and it if not we will follow up on the complaint. I think we do want to take audience questions. Lacombe ive a lot of confidence in the institution we have built over a few centuries of democracy and i think we will get through this, but not completely have half empty or half full, but in the pouring the pot foreignpolicy sphere domestically we just heard about how some of the what he can do through regulation and deregulation and dismantling of the regulatory system in the Foreign Policy, the president s power is really masked. So, this becomes a matter that americans should worry about in terms of not just corruption and influence and what about Vladimir Putin, but of that war and peace, what judgments will he make . If he has to come to us and ask us to support him in sending young men and women into harms way, we should know that its about the National Interest and we should have no doubt that its the only thing a play and if so long as these conflicts persist, this is not a difficult remedy. Just follow normal patterns of behavior that has been set for decades and set all of this aside. None of us we would not need your wonderful paper, but its that fundamental and in the foreignpolicy realm we need to know. We actually started paper with a section of National Security in a quote saying protections against corruption and ethics rules really are kind of National Security protections for governments and we have never had a president with named businesses throughout the world in instable regions, so we are ghana quebec to bleaker for a moment, i mean, when they see the Washington Post with an analysis that he spends more time tweeting many meetings. When a president ignores an urgent security briefing and what can happen, so that is, i think, something that i i dont think hes tweeting more than briefings. Thats true. Thank you for parsing as always, rob. I think that there are very serious National Security implications for the safety and security of americans at home with regard to the disparagement from President Trump and then his distraction from critically important roles. You know, he is not just a forprofit president. He appears to be a parttime president , so there will be avenues of accountability and tools for oversight through the courts, genius of our system with our separation of powers, so we know the courts and congress are legal branches and we firmly believe the rule will be upheld. Also, their domestic concerns that coming out, dovetailing with that, but congress has a lot of bills and opportunities for resolution and i do think its really just a question of a drum beat of public pressure in the fee press really continuing to do the job of uncovering this with americans pushing them every step. So, just time for a few questions. I saw your hand in the red shirt in the back. , in the pink shirt. Hello. Im a freelance journalist and i went to keep it simple because donald trump makes my head hurt. Only her head quite like other parts, also. We have a constitution; correct . The constitution is written and in their there is a clause supposedly dealing with them all months and in either says you gifts or you cant. Does everyone agrees so far . There seems to be some limited or indication that the president of the United States is in violation of the constitution, so my question is and i know some of you started it, so its not completely fair question, but what happens never one, what it what is the process of going after him on that and secondly, so hes guilty so he gives the gifts back . I mean, what is the ultimate . Where does that lead . Well, we are part of a bipartisan group, filed suit ended our gsa suit friday at the swearing in and then wed dropped our a monument suit on monday after three days of collecting trump collecting illegal foreign cash benefits whether gifts or earned of any kind, whatever and we do believe that its a strong case on the merits. Its Pretty Amazing that you would have these kinds of blatant constitutional violations and it actually set they tell for all of these other transgressions that we have seen since unconstitutional yell eo because why is trump banning muslims from the seven countries that are too poor to do business with him when you have neighboring countries, egypt, saudi that he has had business connections with and have actually exported terror attacks to the us soil. Makes no sense at all. It sets a tone for the unconstitutional muslim ban. Said stateowned for the violations that Kellyanne Conway breaking the rules and the chief of staff now intruding on an fbi investigation. They are running willynilly on the rule breaking. The remedy as we think the court will order him to stop. Now, we are not asking for the money to be paid back for a variety of technical legal reasons. The court should say no more, mr. President. Then, he has to deal with how he limits. There is an easy answer and this is where we will end up. He will have to appoint a trustee, again, bipartisan experts including Tea Party Leaders and extreme clinton critics and others have said you have to do this. He will have to appoint a trustee work hes not just going to turn over management as he has done, but ownership to the trustee to liquidate. Cell and reinvest and investments that are conflict free. Thats what everyone has done for 40 years, so far fewer conflicts and donald trump. I do think that its important to remember david, that had of the American Civil Liberties union has written if courts could order president bush in an ongoing Armed Conflict to subject his detention of enemy come pat commands to legal review, surely they can order president Cabot Phillips do this, so i think again thats a question of just the rule of law, but the black letter who knew we were all originalists, the black letter textural probation and upholding the rule of law. It works from and originalist analysis and analysis of the structure purpose, whichever lends you view it through its for bidden. Thank you. Till about a month ago i was part of a senior team at the Obama Administration working on anticorruption both in the commercial diplomacy and National Security policy and our trade policy and i want to turn the panels attention to what you might call the policy remedy to the current predicament. First, i do want to applaud the work you have done already to shine a spotlight on whats happening and to hold accountability standards very high and now i just want to have you turn to a deeper structural dilemma and the first question is, how do we tie what you are doing individually and as organizations to the broader question of how americans get more access to America Economic opportunity . How do we tie this to a jobs and growth agenda domestically and what are we going to do to take the case to the grassroots, but also more importantly tie what can appear to some to be a technical issue to the broader economic question of can we trust globalization . Does free trade actually work . Is free trade the problem or the solution and all those very important questions and by the way, one of the big initiatives i championed within the ministration was to get the Free Trade Agreement to include state of the art anticorruption chapters so it does kreis access to economic opportunity. Thats a policy question. Second, the Obama Administration literally did dozens of great things with Central Europe to promote anticorruption rule of law and Good Governance throughout the world. We did that in part because we wanted to use it as a way to fight terrorism and we did this in part because we understood corruption is a recruiting tool and we did this in part because we understand Vladimir Putin eases corruption as a foreignpolicy platform. So, a question is, what are we doing to take inventory of what president obama did and ghost board in other words, theres no reason to see the ground and save open Government Partnership at least in my view its now defunct, so what are we doing to make sure that this Current Administration is held accountable to the progress being made . Sorry for the longwinded question. Thank you for your work. Robert, do you want to talk about the economy and like how to tie this to the question of jobs . First, on the second part, as you do know one of the first legislative acts of the congress along with approving the cabinet was repealing a import anticorruption in dodd frank requiring a look at the Mining Companies to disclose their payments to foreign governments which the present happily sign which Rex Tillerson lobbied for when he was head of exxon mobil. Totally unconnected, im sure its going to be hard to see anticorruption agenda Going Forward from this administration globally. On the domestic side, i mean, its maybe a bit less about the policy push and more about through the political and framing issues around it and i think what we will try to do is, i think of us collectively to talk about the issues related to policy, so i gave some examples feared tax policy will be a massive fight. We got verification about what he wants tax policy to look like and its cuts for large corporations and i think connecting that and trumps personal interests to what it will mean for regular people will be an important part of the story. They have signaled they want to roll back as much of dodd frank as they can and thats obviously connected to the harel icon story and all of his interminglings with wall street interest. We know he has lenders with his ongoing obligation. There is no way to talk about repealing the dodd frank rules without saying you are completely trashing your populist message and you sort of go down a list with these things and i think that will be the way to connect to the personal conflict issues to the big policy questions and you know, there is no way for them to square the circle and no way to talk about these things as populist message, you know, which i think is worrisome because the conflict between the populist base in the populist campaign and reality of how they will govern will be a very. Conflict and will require, i think, aggressive things. The worst nationalist most xenophobic and type trumped up Anti Terrorist off hold anti populace the populist frame when they are adopting an anti populist economic policy, think that is a scary thing we will have to watch out Going Forward. You want to speak to the obama corruption measures . I worked with matthew closely and he attended our annual meeting in prague where we brought together people from europe and around the world to talk about just these questions in the International Context see what new they they would have such relevance. If you will forgive me for saying so, in addition the open Government Partnership was actually born in my office physically at the white house when i was that not by me, but by wonderful colleague on the National Security council, jeremy weinstein. Watch if we came up with a way to drive internationally . We were going backandforth him back and forth and his identical station came that i still work on and presented a paper at the zero gp in my brookings capacity on whether open Government Works or not and i will now pivot to the answer, i think we need to have one of the failures of those of us who believe in these things is we have not and rob signals is in his answer also, we need to be able to make an affirmative case, not just talking to ourselves on the progressive, im on the left, not just talking to ourselves on the left, but we need to make a strong affirmative case that is heard in the center and even on the rights. I been doing speaking to Tea Party Groups lately about common cause issues and some of them are very concerned about some of the trumpet stuff, very concerned. We need to have a vision of opportunity that is broadly persuasive and that has heroes and villains as and a narrative thats broadly persuasive that can command a majority in the United States and that fits into a global picture. I think the American People are more generous than america first, but we need to make that case in the anticorruption part of it needs to be woven in. It cant be freestanding. Transparency, integrity, decency needs to be woven into that story and that will take us some time, i think, the optimist that i am i think part of what we see now is in our american way, not from the top down, not from washington even, wonderful institutions, like Public Citizen crew or brookings, but from the bottomup we see we see these Grassroots Efforts to articulate that vision and we all need to Work Together to make that case and thats how we will keep the dream of integrity in domestic and International Governmental lives as part of that coherent narrative. I think that is true, but i also want to add i think all of those things that open government and transparency and accountability in that way are entirely necessary. We should also just situate that in the larger problem in american governance and i think we are seeing this around the world as well, but that there has been such a close of economic inequality and a growth of political inequality. People elected this man or any number of reasons and one particularly was his pledge to drain the swamp. Trusting Government Research and we saw over 83 , 84 believe American Government is working for the benefit of wealthy special interests and lobbyists etc. And i think that we need to in addition to maintaining barebones transparent anticorruption measures we really need to adopt affirmative Democracy Solutions to return to rebuild this bill differs bridge of responsiveness. Its not just tromp with his dangerous unprecedented and unconstitutional conflict of interest, its really the water that we are swimming in. Its the whole system set up an kind of based on this conflict of interest because if you are dependent on only folks with a bunch of money to raise money to run for office, you then that being more responsive. That really breaks the link and means folks that are lower income, folks that have been politically marginalized, 93 eligible million americans did not vote at all in 2016 and one reason is they think their voices no longer counts and washington is broken. We have to hold the line on these absurd conflicts that are really a threat to our system, but really answer the call for rebuilding american democracy in the responsive accountable way that ensures fair competition. I think that we might oh, there is one more question. Why dont we go to you. I work for the government for over 30 years before i retired and im concerned about Public Citizens and the idea that the people at the top have so much power that they can corrupt governments, inside government because when you work for governments you are restricted on political speech. You have to sign so many documents they give away your rights. You have two pete in a cup once a year. You have to give your taxes up and not only your taxes, but documents, all of your wealth down to the name and number of every bond you have, just to work in government, so my question really is we have a president that says none of that applies to me and you have a workforce who isnt burdened with compliance of all kinds of compliance and restrictions on political speech and interaction. I never hear anyone from the Progressive Side say we need to change the way we box in Government Employees and restrict them so that we can have more of a local exchange and say there is tension and i think when trump is saying no way does that apply to me i dont have to, how am i going to then with the nepotism applies to me as an employee even though i have left the government i still have requirements to forever keep secrets. I think i know where you worked. [laughter] anyone who has worked in government has to deal with this paradox that everyone that works for President Trump right now has to comply with a serious set of ethics requirements and that he is saying he does not. You cant hire your daughter or son or soninlaw in your government job, but he can. It goes back to again about 40 years we have built up a framework of ethics and is probably overburdened some in some ways and can probably be improved and reformed, but you have the top throwing that out for himself. It sends a signal down through the whole system. Its going to create a lot of it resentment and the fact is you need trust. You need trust between you and the citizens and between your workforce, all the departments and agencies, dedicated Public Servants and anyone who has worked in government knows this sort of popular reputation of federal workers as lazy etc. Is nonsense. They are hardworking people and mostly make could make more money doing something else. They are not going to trust someone who says there is one standard for you and a different standard for me. Thats disturbing. How our system will be governed over the next few years suggests we will have a very bumpy ride. That is indeed the question is how our system will be governed and how these avenues of accountability and tools for oversight may protect some of these ethical standards, so i went to give a really big round of thanks and applause for our panelists. Really, thank you for your time and contribution here today. We are adjourned. Thank you. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] sunday night on afterwards. Our focus was to try to get justice for trade on and if so all these obstacles were placed in our path. You know, i mean, what parent do you know that has a 17year old that if something happens to them they would not want answers says its been thrust on as we understand theres a bigger picture. Theres something more important than just the death of our son. There are other lives out there that we are trying to impact. On the fifth anniversary of the death of trip on martin, his parents talk about their sons life and death plus their experience with the judicial system in their book. There interviewed by rosalie lowery, washed in post National Covering law enforcement, justice and race. What do you think of the legacy of your sons life and of his death and of the activism that has come because of that . You have that dream defenders and hoodies united and black lives matters written in response to the failure to convict george zimmerman. When you think about that, what comes to mind . First and foremost, we definitely think of trade on as a young man who galvanized his country. I think the name trade on martin represents and not just who he was, but all young black and brown boys girls as as well that have been killed and know its been held accountable. Sunday night at 9 00 p. M. On afterwards. I think a lot of these kids look at these huge ideas and you take twitter, uber, erb bmb and they seem like conversationally almost like a seinfeld episode, if we only had this and if this could happen and they felt like i can do this and it was so much harder. Sunday night on q and a come along street Journal Staff reporter Alexandra Wolfe exit the world of startups in Silicon Valley and the young people who have ventured to there with hopes of becoming the next big success story. A lot of them felt like they if you like the rush of hollywood actresses to la and they ended up being a waitress and they wait for their big day, but i feel like its harder to beat elon musk event conquers, i mean, you so many of these companies, instagram, uber, the people running them didnt just have a lucky break. Of the stories were years and years and years of engineering and coding and, i mean, they have qualifications i cant even imagine. Sunday night at 8 00 p. M. On cspan sku and a. Watch cspan as President Donald Trump delivers his first address to a joint session of congress. This congress will be the busiest congress we have had in decades. Live tuesday at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan and cspan. Org and listen live on this free cspan radio app. Our conversation now with Cabot Phillips, Campus Research director for the Leadership Institute and looking at what conservativism means to millennials and the political debate on College Campuses from this mornings washington journal . Host joining us is Cabot Phillips and some of his work feature last year on the fox f news channel and his work on the website campus reform. Org. Thank you for being with us. Guest thank you. Host how did you get involved in this . Guest i was in college and went to a fairly conservative school, so i do not see too much bias from professors orthad administrators, but i had friends that would tell me how in class they are professors were for the most part liberal and using their platform to a lot of times inject their bias in the courses and i thought maybe this is an isolated incident and i went across campus reform one day and realized this is happening around the country w